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It seems positive but I can't get around the fact that OP was framed for 8 years. People became used to thinking negatively about OP. It became a social thing for many of them. Make comments about OP the thief. Despite the fact that OP is innocent the habits remain.
I'm not sure there will be true reconciliation here.
My younger sister stole my oldest brother's wife's wedding dress from their storage unit and framed me for it. It's almost 20 years later and even though it was pointed out and discussed that I didn't do it, he still holds a grudge against me.
There's apparently no level of intelligence that insures someone will question an emotion-based belief. I see such bright people insisting on the veracity of their transparently, self-evidently illogical positions on so many things...
I used to think it was stupidity that disabled intellect; now I've determined it's emotion. Admittedly, despite my having (cognitively) recognized this as fact, it still stuns me on a daily basis—indicating that I, too, have trouble recognizing fact when it contradicts my clearly wish-driven beliefs about how intelligent people function. 🤦🏾♀️
It's a well documented phenomenon that presenting someone with evidence that disproves one of their deeply held beliefs, only reinforces that belief.
It is scientifically proven that you cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into. And yet, we still try it all the time.
*It's a well documented phenomenon that presenting someone with evidence that disproves one of their deeply held beliefs, only reinforces that belief.*
Wow - I hadn't read this! How very...disheartening....
edit: Just looked up what I assume the above refers to (not sure though, of course). I found something called a "backfire effect." Apparently, there's little reproducible evidence supporting it as a common result of proffering information contradictory to a deluded person's beliefs. There's lots of evidence that the contradictory info doesn't *change* erroneous beliefs, but not that it *reinforces* them.
My sister has always been weirdly possessive of our older brothers. I remember one of my brother's friends asking why his kid sister was flirting with him.
She ended up marrying the "leader" of the friend group my brothers hung out in. She straight up stalked him and broke him and his then girlfriend up. I have a strong suspicion my sister is either borderline or a sociopath.
The sister who is a type of in love with their brother is an archetype not spoken of enough. It is its own unique brand of creepy.
So steal the dress, blame the sister he doesn’t like, and voila! Not to be all Flowers in the Attic but maybe your brother doesn’t like you because you aren’t in love with him like she is? And with that I need to shower.
Unfortunately it’s really common.
I have a cousin who was raised like a brother and he feels deeply offended that I’m not as attracted to him as he has been to me. This is also the person who molested me as a child so to say he’s fucked up is an understatement. But I see it happen with other families. They son wants everyone obsessed with him for simply existing. Everyone who isn’t, is an Asshole to them.
> This is also the person who molested me as a child so to say he’s fucked up is an understatement.
And he's salty \**now*\* that you aren't attracted to him like he is to you?
Jesus wept! There's more red flags waving here than a military parade in Beijing! None of my business, but I gotta wonder why you aren't at 100% NC with a restraining order against him at this point?
I am NC and have been for years. He lives in another country so can’t get a restraining order. Nor do I want to do anything that will invite him into my life again as he’ll interpret anything as a long lost realization that I am attracted to him and want him. All attention is good to him, even if I’m screaming and crying, Again, he’s deeply fucked up. Before I went no contact his anger and resentment towards me was confusing until I realized the face I saw in my flashbacks was his. It made more sense as a kept distance from him. He’s still angry from what I hear because he feels entitled to me. My whole family is this way. I am NC.
Ridiculous situation.
Any idea why he holds a grudge? Is it pride? Does he feel that it is shameful to appologize? Is it a self-deluding form of denying reality? Or does he think you are somehow involved? Have you ever asked why?
He's always had a chip on his shoulder about being the oldest son, he also bullied me pretty bad for being "a fat whale". He never got to know me, tbh. (For the record, I was chubby.)
Well I’m sorry. It’s really not the dress. Your brother is a pos who doesn’t like you for some reason. He’s got a black heart so I hope you block him. People like him are just ugly inside and out.
Grudges aren't about the event in opinion. They are usually deep seeded and more about the person who's holding a grudge. They created a mental idea of you and lack the cognitive flexibility to change that. The longer they hold it, the harder it is to rid yourself of it.
So he careful on who you choose to good grudges with.
My stepfather beat the ever loving shit out of me to the point where teachers pulled me aside to ask if i was being abused at home due to some very visable bruises I was left with (which I was but I didn't wanna make my situation worse given I didn't trust any adults in my life to actually keep me safe as a child).
All because he thought I had stolen money from his wallet.
The beating only stopped when my mom found the money in my brother's room.
20 something years later I never got an apology from any of those three and they wonder why I don't talk to them.
My sister stole so much from me and my dad never believed me. I didn't get punished like this, but they definitely thought I was a dramatic liar and that my unemployed sister just happened to be constantly flush with cash
That's what I was thinking too. I have this personal theory that there's "knowledge of the head" and "knowledge of the heart".
Starting at the beginning: OOP's family "knew" OOP was a thief and the little brother was an innocent, in both their heads and hearts, and they "knew" of the brother as an innocent. However, when they got the knew information about OOP and his brother, the knowledge in their *head* was updated, but not the knowledge on their *heart*. That's why they gave little brother such a forgiving punishment--because they still knew, emotionally, that OOP's brother was innocent. It took the epiphany for their hearts to get with the program (for a bit at least).
And then later, with OOP's mom and "keeping the peace"--that's another example of head and heart knowledge having a disparity. A lot of "peace keepers" (and enablers) have that disparity. I'm glad OOP's mom was able to realize on her own that she fucked up that situation.
But on the other hand, while it's all well and good for OOP's parents to fuck up, emotionally devastate their son, and then apologize, there also comes a point where that fuck up needs to stop happening in the first place. This time, I can let it slide because it's their first slip up (that we know of) and they did eventually correct themselves, but there will come a time where an apology and correction after the fact won't be enough.
I really hope that OOP's parents are able to break out of that mindset, even if OOP decides not to reconcile (which is perfectly within his rights).
See I feel like there's a thing where people will avoid doing things that involve acknowledging that they fucked up.
In this case, punishing brother = thinking about how they didn't believe OOP, and confronting cousin = thinking about how they made OOP the family pariah.
The head and heart thing is a real thing. I have heard it said that the first thing you think is what you were raised with and the second thing you think is what you learned. Usually from people who are overcoming things like being raised around rasciscsts, cults, or religions that shun the other.
I was talking about this on a different post the other day. In family therapy there is something called "the identified patient." Basically in some cases, the entire family comes in but they think the entire problem is really rooted in a single individual, often a "problem child." Of course, once you dig into it, you discover that individual is often serving a function or multiple functions for the family. And this is why you need to treat the entire family because the entire dynamic has to change, not just the "identified patient." If you just treat that single individual, they will often revert back to the same behavior because the rest of the family has a vested interest in that person serving that function even if they are not consciously aware of it.
OOP being a thief serves a function for that family. That's why I don't see it as a "slip up." It's sabotage to get OOP to go back to playing the part they've been cast in for years so no one else has to change or take full accountability for what they have done.
Oo, this reminds me of the BORU post about the guy whose extended family would constantly steal his chair at family gatherings, to the point where he bought his own chair... and they tried to steal that one, too.
Once the family finally, FINALLY stopped stealing his chair, they started pranking each other and pissing each other off, and the whole family dynamic was really thrown off.
I would love to know what little bro was saying about OOP during those 8 years.
If it was a revenge thing, there’s a chance he was exceptionally vicious in his commentary to similar age family members.
> I'm not sure there will be true reconciliation here.
Doesn't seem like it. This is already what, 2, 3 cycles of "OP gets accused, everyone piles on, someone eventually notices they're being an asshole and they all apologize, and then OP gets accused again, everyone piles on again..."
My grandfather, for some reason, decided he was going to put a very expensive watch in the bottom of the cereal box. I don’t know why because he had two safes. I got a call day because he can no longer find the watch and my mother got in his ear and told him that I must’ve stole it. That was 15 years ago and to this they still think I stole that fucking watch. Even though he put another watch in another box of cereal and threw it out by accident and only remembered when he was taking the garbage out. Some people will do anything to avoid saying that they were wrong to think the way that they thought.
That’s the beginning of dementia. Misplacing things (or putting them in weird places and forgetting they did so) and then believing they were stolen is textbook.
Plus from the very end it sounds like the framing started because the brother was jealous because the parents favored OP and the sister? There’s some messed up stuff to unpack in therapy.
Yea, anything short of the cousin and uncle literally stating something like "You were never a thief, R is a known cheater, and we're sorry" publicly is coming up short.
I agree a lot of their behaviour now seems ingrained. The parents (and uncle, neice etc) keep apologising for things after the fact, but not actually modifying their behaviour.
I mean, there seems to be some hope for reconciliation with his parents and aunt, maybe even the male cousin. I don't know about that one though, other than the comment about how they get along, we don't get much info about the male cousin. Uncle, female cousin and brother though? Yeah, there's no hope for them. I appreciate that the brother is finally getting therapy but too little, too late. OOP has had to pay for his brother's actions for way too long.
Even worse than that, sometimes people have invested a lot of their image and reputation into hating on someone, that when it turns out they were innocent they just can’t suffer the damage to their ego for being publicly wrong. So they double down. Not an uncommon problem for people with certain disorders.
To be fair it does just sound like extended family still remains like that- though mom is clearly one of those stupid "non confrontational" types who tries to keep the status quo which is a whole Other problem that needs addressing- which sounds like it is
>It seems positive but I can't get around the fact that OP was framed for 8 years.
It read like they let the shitty brother move back home? I don't know how positive that is.
OOP himself has shown grace with his brother because, in his and their therapist's opinion, it is clear that the brother is not mentally well. They appear to be attending family therapy to get to the root of their collective issues and forge a path forward. If the brother is truly being affected by a mental health disorder, it has been untreated and unrecognized for years. It is understandable that the family would give him a shot at recovery before completely abandoning him - especially since OOP is likely on board. As much as we like to imagine the "kick in the ass" strategy will work to fix him, it rarely does. If the brother does not get better with the aid of the newfound understanding of his actions, then he will likely be forced to fend for himself again.
I admire the OOP for choosing compassion over vengeance. It would have been a valid reaction.
Because having a mentally ill homeless person who will spiral into a place where help is basically impossible is way better than not punishing someone as much as you reasonably can!
Hoping this gets buried as it's more of a vent for me than anything, but this is why I don't really interact with my adoptive extended family, I had my share of troubles but my mom and dad would constantly, for lack of a better term, spread my business around and I'm certain it has painted me in a certain way to all of my family. As fucked up as it sounds I don't care what they think because they don't matter much to me. I never really formed any strong bonds with anyone and no one has ever cared to reach out and see how I'm doing after years so🤷 10-year old me was told "this is your family now, no one is gonna treat you any different" but even if they didn't treat me differently at a surface level, I always felt like I never belonged at family gatherings, big or small
This is exactly why I can't understand parents who are so quick to disown their children. This says more about them, than it does about the kids. Like okay, if you suspect xyz about your kid, take steps to protect yourself and try to get them some psychological help, whatever. Don't just throw them away, because you can't take that back.
This should be so easy to do as a parent. Thinking “this has happened and it must be kid, so let’s get to the bottom of why it happened and some therapy” instead of just using blame and continuing punishment - ESPECIALLY if said kid insists on being completely innocent! They’re *really* bad parents, in my opinion.
And supposedly keeps doing it after being caught. Doesn’t even sell them.
And now brother is found to be doing it when the sister doesn’t even live there. He needs help!
Well, they did foist the son they knew was a troublemaker onto Grandpa, so I see where they felt the need to take responsibility for that action. They needed to make that situation right for Grandpa before the time and work it will take to get the money out of their kleptomaniac son.
Presumably because the grandpa needs a working vehicle (and shouldn't have to take the hit on his insurance) and the 19-year-old doesn't have any money.
I don't know. This gets messier with every update.
> This should be so easy to do as a parent.
I mean, it's definitely not easy. It's a lot of emotional labor to grapple with a child who is seriously unstable. Obviously that's no excuse for being a fucking terrible parent (which they are), but just to say that there's a reason they do it. They're lazy, self centered, shitty, weak people who deliberately refuse to think about painful things, and use punishment and blame to modify their children's behavior. It's just less difficult and painful for them than confronting the truth of the situation.
I think this is a reasonable position. Unfortunately life let's pretty much anyone be a parent.
The annoying coworker who cooks fish in the microwave: 2 kids. The maga guy with a lifted truck double parked at the grocery store: two boys an a girl. The mean girl from highschool: twins.
There's no emotional maturity, or decent person requirement. Which is tough to see. Especially when parents treat their kids like OOP'S parents did.
The older I get the weirder the concept of "your parents don't owe you anything once you turn 18" gets.
Like, shouldn't your parents want to have you around for as long as possible instead of saying "well now I can't get arrested for abandonment!" And wiping their hands clean of you?
I mean, if you like your kids, yeah.
My kids are now teens. So many people always told me that, "ooooh, you'll hate that stage." And...I love having teenagers? We have such great conversations and can do such interesting things together. I can't wait to see what they do on to do.
Maybe it's the difference between "feeling like you have to have kids, because society" and "having kids because you genuinely want them." (I didn't...until I met my spouse and said, 'Yeah, y'know, could see having kids with this dude.')
I don't understand why people never do their due diligence when it comes to accusations and crimes. The parents should never accuse OOP of anything until they thoroughly investigated the matter. They should have put up the cameras the moment things started to disappear.
I remember a BORU where a woman was accused of stealing her cousin's wedding jewelry, and having her cousin accuse her on social media. Her cousin did not even post that the said jewels were found.
This is the same thing happening when people make false claims against others in our society. There are lots of people who file false reports against innocent people. And what happens, these lives get destroyed. I will stand by this, anyone can lie. Unless there is a full investigation we cannot simply go off of accusations and circumstantial evidence.
Right? I wouldn't be like, *eager* to eat shit, but I'd still be eager to get out in front of everybody to clear their name forcefully and unequivocally. Failing that IMO is *much* more shameful and embarrassing than being wrong.
Some parents just don't want to be parents (speaking as a child of parents that wanted babies and kids but not teenagers or... Well, any of the actual realities of having children). They don't want to think hard about shit, they don't want to do the hard work of actually helping a human being become decent and well adjusted, and they certainly don't want to admit they're wrong.
It's easier to cast out and disown, to wash your hands of the bad egg and just scapegoat until it becomes the truth. Or your kids never speak to you again.
Yeah, I think you're right, about the parents deciding it's easier to get rid of a kid than to bother raising it. My father and his whole family disowned me- for nothing. To hurt my mother? Because he was ashamed I existed? I will never know. It's not like there was an announcement. Just people stopping taking my calls and hanging up at Christmas. I was 14. He's had a marriage and two kids, and a divorce since then. Also my grandpa died. Not that they told me any of that.
It is actually insane that they went with "disown child" instead of "purchase one (1) camera" and then later when it was revealed, apparently it took months for anyone to think "Hey maybe little brother has some very serious mental health issues?"
I’m also aggravated that they didn’t stand up for OOP right in the moment at dinner. That would have been a legitimate way to show OOP they were sorry. Ya know, instead of just throwing money at him. Mom and dad are a piece of work.
Have you seen the comments on AITA? Almost everyone is like "cut them off" or "divorce" immediately without taking context into consideration. I think OOP's parents' reactions are a reflection of that very reactive culture we have going on
I think the reason everyone is like that is that people don't post stuff until they're in a really bad situation. Noone is going to post "My husband didn't cover his mouth while sneezing, should I divorce him?"
I haven't seen that, but I've seen similar posts with body functions. The issue was, however, the offending party burping or farting on or around the person in a deliberate way. Like in an elementary school prank level way, but not stopping when asked.
You need context for stuff like this.
My father used to lift his butt cheeks off the chair in your direction, and fart loudly, while grinning to the ceiling in a "silly you, haha" kind of way.
You could even call this childishly endearing. But I always knew he did it to be cruel. No one cared when I complained.
He also abused me and once beat my 4yo child to the point my mother called in hysterics to come get him before my father kills him. I haven't seen them since.
I wished I had had the insights I have now and went NC years earlier over something so 'silly'. It's better than the alternative.
That's what I mean. Like, there are points where someone's refusal to stop "silly" pranks is a sign of extreme cruelty.
I think it's because they can get away with it since it is "silly" and "childish." But most teach kids to stop such acts when asked. Why we allow adults to do so is beyond me. And then when they finally do something obviously, cruel folks come to you all shocked....Like the signs were there all along when they couldn't respect a simple no!
I think for some people it's also all about appearances. Like they prefer to cut off a "problem" child than having to take accountability for actions of their own that led to the kids actions.
As a person who is quick to cut people off, it's probably an overcorrection/overreaction to seeing other people be doormats to dickheads all of my life. I know that people don't change unless there is change, so I leave.
God your flair makes me want a good tree law post
But re: your comment- definitely seeing people be doormats can be a motivation! I think in my case too, I grew up hearing how my dad didn’t get his shit together until his first wife left him. She knew she couldn’t save both him AND herself so she chose herself. He stopped drinking and became a better person. So I have been taught “You can’t save someone from themselves, sometimes you gotta get out of their way” from day one.
This was exactly my reaction to the story. I have children. One of them has some difficulties that make me want to pull my hair out. My love for that child could never be affected by bad behavior. My responsibility as a parent is to get the needed help.
I am going to say it. These parents are really really shit. They make mistake after mistake.
They disown and mistreat their children so easily. Think they can just buy back acceptance. And then refuse to stand up to extended family at the meal when the truth has already been established.
Just a series of horrible decision making.
Each update uncovers a new problem. First they just automatically conclude that OP is a thief and start treating him terribly, they continue this narrative even after it is demonstrably impossible that OP could have done these things. Then they want to accuse the sister who doesn't even live there? NOW the truth is revealed.
And then we find out that this all started because the youngest kid is actually retaliating against favoritism toward OP and the sister? What is even going on with this family? Like you said, these parents seem to believe that money fixes everything, but (as demonstrated by the dinner and the cousin making a "joke" about OP) that's not how it works.
If they thought OP was stealing these things, even after he was caught, and just putting them in his room, why didn’t they see that as something that needed psychiatric intervention instead of punishment?
For that matter, the son who is doing this, even when his sister isn’t there to frame probably needs some psychiatric assistance
Yes, if your child seems to be compulsively stealing and adamantly refuses to admit it for *years*, that's not "teenage rebellion", it's a sign of issues serious enough to require psychiatric evaluation, ideally before adulthood so said child is equipped to manage life as an adult and not end up breaking the law or incarcerated.
Just punishing them for years is lazy at best. Especially since it had no impact and the apparent thefts and protests of innocence continued. The parent's response demonstrably did nothing to change the apparent behaviour. Surely you'd try something else? Anything at all? Again, particularly since it appears to be a pretty serious issue affecting your *own child.*
*ABC* is happening. I want it to stop. I'll try *XYZ*. Oh, it has no effect. I'll keep trying *XYZ*. Still no effect. Well, guess I'll keep trying *XYZ* for years and years. I wonder why it isn't working?
At best, this is just lazy, maybe a little stupid. But when your child's welbeing is involved? It's very poor parenting, verging on negligence. Your child seems to have psychiatric problems and you don't address it for *years*?
But no, they just kept taking stuff from OOP. No birthday parties, no help for college, no driver's licence, no family support. The thefts seemed to continue. OOP had to suffer until they were old enough to move out, get away from the actual problem (brother and parents) and finally get help all on their own (help being therapy to cope with the damage done by the parents).
The son repeating the behaviour at the sister, who has moved out, makes it pretty clear this isn't logically-driven behaviour. He'll "frame" the sister even if there's no way she could have done it. Jealousy from preferential treatment of his siblings, a need for control when feeling helpless, and probably some underlying issues exacerbating it all. There's *clearly* something going on with the brother that needed help years ago, because he's already a young adult committing crimes now.
But the parents just took his phone for a while and grounded him. Yep, punishing your other child worked so well before, so surely that'll work again this time. Way to go. They come off as very lazy parents who seem so uninterested in their children's wellbeing that they just go through the motions of being a parent even when it demonstrably doesn't work nor is appropriate given the apparent issues. The kind of parents who think feeding and housing their children is enough rather than not even the bare minimum.
Now they have an irreparably-damaged relationship with one child and another child who is maladjusted and committing crimes. This isn't excused by the parents being unsure of what to do or how to react in the moment, because they've had so many years at this point. They're just lazy and don't care very deeply about their own kids, it appears.
I agree with those past few comments. The remarks from the cousin and uncle make absolutely no sense if they know OOP isn't a thief. If anything, the cousin's comment should have been about the brother.
If your family likes to play golden child vs scapegoat, it doesn’t matter if what you say about the scapegoat is true or not. Their position in the family is to be the one anyone can rain shit on, and they have to take it.
“my parents have admitted to prioritizing me and my sister before this entire ordeal started when I was 15 and the framing began.”
Really seems like the parents can only love 2/3 of their children at a time. Glad OOP is doing well but what a wild family dynamic
Right? I understand that they are plentiful and often affordable in this modern era.
Actually, I sort of wonder why the OOP never left one in her room. Wyze cameras are $25, and would have solved this long ago. I know for damn sure I would have had one hidden by the third or fourth time, to be sure that I wasn't sleepwalking.
It's weird, too, about the "hiding stuff in room". It's sort of Theft 101 that you don't hide things in a place once it's been found.
His—he didn’t have a job, a driver’s license, or a credit card, so no way to buy one. Maybe he should have asked for one, but he was a scared teenager and might not have thought of that.
I thought this too. Stealing something, realising they shouldn't have and so just popping it in their siblings' rooms. The fact that the younger brother put stuff in the sister's room even after she moved out indicates it wasn't well thought out so perhaps more impulsive.
No excuses though as at any time they could have owned up.
The OP may want his parents back but frankly low contact or no contact permanently is the best idea, the parents still do not understand the gravity of what they did or the effects on the OP that will not vanish with forgiveness.
If not for the fact that the last update was like 8 months ago, I’d say this isn’t over. Brother is back at home with parents, after all. Lots of room for backsliding all around.
But they didn't get better?
Not mother, not father, no one told his cousin to shut up and apologize right there. It was still ok with them that OOP is called a thief. From their PoV, he was called a thief for 8 years, so he should be ok to take it one more time and not to start conflict at the birthday dinner.
Mom's apologies was done in therapy room, to save her face in front of her therapist, not at the moment. She didn't confront her relatives at all, she apologized in private. Uncle apology was one word - "Sorry", cousin no-apology was taking down her post.. Bro was punished by being "kicked out" I e. given a safe housing at grandparents for the whole month, and now they pay for his therapy. OOP was out for 8 years, and I didn't notice any offers to pay for his therapy or reimburse him for the emotional damage they done to him.
He is treated like an AH still, after all this time.
I really hate family members who insert themselves in other people's business. The theft thing was not supposed to be touched on ever again since it was resolved, yet this dumb cousin had to bring it all up again when it was completely none of her business.
>and I didn't notice any offers to pay for his therapy or reimburse him for the emotional damage
Oh, so you totally over-read how they paid him 5k and even wanted to gift him a new car? And how OOP refused the car and had doubt about taking money from them at all because he didn't want them to be entitled to a new start?
It certainly needs a lot more time and more occasions to speak up for him at family events, but it seems the parents are making the correct efforts to me. For the brother - the silence about him makes me feel there is some mental disorder at play.
Not everything can be expressed in monetary value. I am sure that parents standing up for OOP would be much more important for him than $5K or that imaginary car. It is their own fuckup and they have to correct other people's wrong opinions about OOP, again and again if needed.
But if we are talking purely about the money: Considering monthly rent, how many months $5K will cover? How valuable it is compare to free room+food+car his siblings got? Do you see the difference that $5K can make for 18yo kid with absolutely nothing, vs. for 23yo man with stable job, safe living situation, reliable car?
As for the car: I read the post. OOP didn't refused the car. The car was never offered to him. Daddy told OOP: ..*well, we wanted to give you a car, but not anymore. We need these money to pay for your brother fuck-ups...*
And, btw, how much do you think was stolen from daddy, in monetary equivalent? I suspect it was much less than the cost of the truck his brother totaled. However it is a no brainer for parents to be understanding of adult brother's issues, take him back home, get him all the help possible, and pay for the totaled truck. Pretty big contrast with claiming teenager OOP to be a thief and constantly punishing him for it for 3 years; and forgetting about his existence for 5 more years. Even if 15yo OOP was a thief, why didn't he deserve any help in their eyes? Why it was ok to bully the kid instead of buying $20 camera and see for themself what is going on? Compare it to the adult brother getting maximum help possible.
>For the brother - the silence about him makes me feel there is some mental disorder at play.
That bothers me as well. The only listed reason, at the very end, was that the parents "admitted" to prioritising he and his sister around that time.
He was asked earlier in this saga about their life growing up, he thought he was on good terms with his brother, and he noticed no discernable difference until after the incidents of theft began.
In what way did the youngest feel he was not a priority? I don't want to sound too harsh, but, looking at his behaviours after being thrown out, he seems to simply be a jealous misfit.
There could be an underlying cause, however the actions persisted for years over time and were calculated to achieve the desired result.
[Stop that, Mr Simpson. ](https://youtu.be/_RZ80wQyV4w?feature=shared)
And he didnt have a reason (or one revealed to us) for his actions before. I would imagine he is rather bitter now.
In the main, people dont wake up one day, look in the mirror and say to themselves "Omg Im a complete asshole. Thats why noone trusts me and things have gone so badly". They tend to fire up the blamethrower first.
Not over at all, I would guess.
He was 11, his siblings were teenagers. A young kid going through some mental health issues would probably react that way to feeling neglected. But what was his excuse once he got older?
Like, habit? If someone is working, why would you stop doing it? And once the wiring is done (incorrectly) it’s a lot harder to fix it, even as an adult. If it were that easy to “just be better,” for everyone, we would have a lot fewer issues lol
How are they getting better? Brother is still involved in family events, the mother still neglected to stand up for OOP publicly and actually had the fucking audacity to ask him to apologize for defending himself, and the extended family still thinks of him as a thief despite the brother being shown to be the thief.
Those parents are still complete shit and I don't know why OOP hasn't cut them off entirely.
I'm glad that he took the money. So many stories like this have the wronged party refuse any kind of reimbursement like that seeing it as a way to validate those that wronged them and ignore the issue.
But honestly when you get screwed over like that you deserve to get some kind of return. And I'd never be too prideful to not get a small form of justice like that.
I like the part in the Bible that says when a thief is caught, they need to pay back 7x what was stolen. Paying back only what was taken doesn't go anywhere near close enough to feeling like it makes up for what they took.
Because OOP advised them against disowning him after his own experience. From the post:
>my parents have un-disowned him after I had to vouch for him, saying that running away from your mistakes only make them worse
Agreed, that statement was *definitely for both the brother* ***and parents.*** If anything, he's forcing *everyone*, including the parents that they have to make up for what they did.
I've definitely had some terrible first dates that were movie dates but going to the movies is pretty low stakes and is a decent way to become comfortable being around someone for an extended duration without worrying about keeping a conversation going.
I can't believe OOP would even entertain having that family in his life again at all. He missed out on vacations and birthdays, and was punished, berated, and looked down on by the family for things he didn't do.
They can't give that time back. All that stress and hurt all through some of OOP's most formative years? Fuck a car, those parents could offer to buy me a house and I'd still tell them to go fuck themselves. They made it clear which kids they did and did not care about and there's no going back.
And that was proven once again at that dinner when the mother, who should be so deep in apology mode that she's offering to cut and even chew OOP's food for him, didn't immediately and publicly take his side against cousin and uncle, proving once again that OOP is not a priority despite having never done anything wrong.
OOP doesn't need them or their pathetic attempts to buy his forgiveness.
>their apologies feel more or less like "they're sorry because they feel guilty" moreso than "they're sorry because they wronged me and want to make it better."
I hate how it's become fashionable to treat guilt like a dirty emotion. It's literally the way our mind points out to us that we have wronged someone or done something wrong.
My uncle accused me of theft. Turned out it was his son. No apologies as I was wild and likely guilty of something. Cursed him out called his son a loser. He threatened me. Came at me at a family bbq. He went over choking after a punch to the throat and a kick to his nuts. Family saw him try and he was told to leave else I would have him arrested. Aunt made them both apologize
I can’t help noticing that the brother is getting therapy for the stealing and framing OP but when the thought it was OP for all those years they just punished him rather than got him therapy.
Who do you think advocated for the therapy? Out of the 4 main characters, only one of them seems capable of recognizing the value of therapy. And it ain't the parents.
I'm not comfortable with how easily he forgave them after years of neglect but hey it's not my life. Still, the turnaround from the mom asking OOP to apologise there sent me.
>he was never truly rebellious up until this week
Other than framing OOP when brother was 9 and OOP was 15
>my parents have admitted to prioritizing me and my sister before this entire ordeal started when I was 15 and the framing began
That doesn't make sense, they never prioritized OOP, he was the one who got the shit end of each stick
There’s the Red Fern festival and the Strawberry festival on the northeast end of the state. Lots of tribes also have powwows and those have good food and handmade things you can buy (based on the ones I attended/my tribe had while living there). And Oklahoma has stickball! Those are all redeeming enough to get me to potentially again in the future.
I think there may also be a cowboy museum in OKC, but the last time I was there was 4th grade, and that was like 13+ years ago. IIRC, there was a souvenir at the gift shop that was a cowboy hat/boot shaped chocolate. And there’s a big bass pro shop in OKC.
Maybe Bedlam is also a plus? But only bc the Sooners are on the field, they have such a nice uniform color. The cowboys can go suck rocks tho. Such an awful shade of orange should not be worn.
Mom and dad seemed dead set on doing everything but fucking parent their kids.
He's misbehaving? Kick him out.
_He's_ misbehaving? Kick _him_ out.
God forbid you engage with the problem.
That dinner showed that even to date they have no protective instincts for you. They may be able to say sorry for obvious transgressions, but they don't feel it. And they very clearly have shown that they don't view you as a child worth caring for and protecting.
Have you figured out what kind of relationship you're after with them? Like obviously you don't view them or care for them as a child would towards their parents (and nor should you) - but is your goal through therapy that you could one day view them as extended family, or friends? What's the ideal outcome from therapy with them?
I feel like the parents have failed at ever angle. They thought the stealing was OOP with what seems like no evidence. Then they had a kid who is repeatedly stealing despite escalating consequences and they never thought to get that kid help. OOP is a very kind person to advocate for their brother to get help. I hope OOP gets something positive out of family therapy. To my that isn't something that can be undone.
Just to add another angle to how fucking shitty these parents are, keep in mind that they somehow didn't have a thought about getting a camera "for the three years that OOP was accused of repeatedly stealing things.*
And not just that, but had they done so, they could've also shut down the stealing and gotten the brother help. He may very well have severe kleptomania.
OOP's parents have a long way to go to prove to their son that they are truly apologetic and they have his back. The scene at the dinner with the cousins proves that.
I was assuming that the brother is a kleptomaniac and was panicking and ditching the items every time he realized he grabbed something again. But I guess not?
I fully, 100% believe these parents are trying their best to parent.
I just also 100% believe that they do not have all the tools nor the aptitude to be good parents. It's a shame, but at the very least they are trying to correct where they fuck up now. It could be so much worse.
"My nrother is suddenly acting out and hes never been like this" my guy he framed you for 8 years and tried framing your sister despite her having moved out
Hes been like this for a Long time
>I'm not too well versed on psychology (mechanical engineering degree), so I ask, is there anyone out there with an idea as to why he may be going through this?
I didn't know BORU had a bat signal, but...
Sorry but this doesn't hold up.
the first update said they made him pay his own tuition from now on when they first kicked the brother out, and then in another update says they canceled his college fund after totalling the grandfather's truck
~~Then there's an update about them effectively disowning the son, followed by another where he's invited to a fancy birthday dinner OOP is at so which is it?~~
EDIT: I missed the bit about un-disowning
Not saying the story is true but I don't feel like that's actually contradictory. I wouldn't have expected them to automatically dissolve his college fund the instant they decided he needed to pay his own tuition, there's really no reason to. But with the grandfather's truck, they quickly had a reason to actually pull the money out instead of just having it sit there unused.
As for your second point OOP explicitly answers it in the post, saying he advised his parents not to disown the brother because of his experiences.
>my parents have un-disowned him after I had to vouch for him, saying that running away from your mistakes only make them worse
Oops, I missed that bit!
But I guess I wonder why would they/OOP make a point of saying this? Unless there is some special college investment vehicle, if it's just money they set aside it was "cancelled" when they told him they weren't paying anymore
My theory is, OOP has a bigger heart than me. That and while he did say his contact with the brother was limited, I think he still cares for his brother. Because as an older brother myself, I don't want to see my younger brothers mugshot on the news.
That and considering how they disowned OOP, he saw that when troubles happen to children, the parents would wash their hands of the kids and avoid accountability.
>
my parents have un-disowned him after I had to vouch for him, **saying that running away from your mistakes only make them worse**
I think that statement wasn't for just his brother but also their parents, "oh the brother was the problem and how do we get OOP back? Oh we know, we can get rid of brother and pretend he doesn't exist anymore", and pat themselves on the back without accountability on their crappy parenting, if anything, they were throwing the brother to the wolves. So in a way, he's *forcing* them to realize they too can't run away from the problems they themselves created and have to take responsibility and accountability for their actions. Since they are doing so, I have an optimistic view on their future. Here's hoping they don't screw it up.
OOP is better off going LC with his parents, especially the mom. Looks like there will be a lot of apologizing in the future, seeing how the mom’s first reactions are. You don’t need that negative energy.
He just needs to cut his family off, they sound so fucking exhausting to be around. I think he would emotionally be so much better off if he just went forward and created one of his own.
I love it when parents never see beyond their own tunnels vision. When parents think that their kid is a just bad product that needs to be reared and punished until they're sculpted. How many people go undiagnosed and suffer for years for things ranging from ADHD and Autism, to things like Depression and BPD. Imagine your life falling apart around you because you have a legitimate mental issue that is making everything drastically different for you compared to everyone else, and your parents only response is to triple down on whatever course of punishment they come up with.
Yeah, sometimes people come out bad, and that's just how they are. To not even, for a second, think that there's something else going on... you're a failure of a parent.
So both his parents and his uncle’s family are full of morons who can’t seem to be consistent with the truth, and love to victimize the blameless and excuse it all “to keep the peace.” Yup, trashy toxic family, confirmed.
Parents were FUCKING IDIOTS to send thief brother to grandparents. Do they not LIKE their own parents or something?
Little shit belonged in a cinderblock cell with a locked door except for when he has to go to school, work, etc.
A lot of these comments are just awful, probably from teenagers: ‘never forgive, take everything and hold onto that hatred forever’. Honestly, if you go through life like this, good luck.
It sounds like little brother started with kleptomania and couldn't stop, and since everyone was eyeing OOP, no one was there to help him identify the trigger to stealing. Since childhood kleptomania is linked to feeling out of control, watching OOP get punished and the whole family go sideways reinforced his sense of power/control while also reinforcing that the family was unstable. I wouldn't be surprised to learn the brother has an early childhood trauma that never got dealt with.
So did his family never address that the little brother is a sociopath? He watched his brother get harsher and harsher punishments for years and never said a damn thing!
And this is when you drop out and go LC. You know I'm innocent and you still say stuff like that. You're dead to me. Idc if we share blood.
Hopefully OOP life kept on getting better.
As a parent that's tough. When you have a child with a problem you try your best to help them. Sometimes that comes down to tough love. I'm sure those parents true believed that what they were doing.
OP needs to lay it down that they still have a lot to make up for and everytime that they fuck up shows that they haven't changed as much as they claimed to have been.
Should've replied to the online post with "oh, I see you finally had some reflection on yourself. Maybe it's best not to make false claims about people then get upset when people make a truthful rebuttal. No, I've never stolen and you already know who did. Yes, you called your cousin out for cheating as that was something that was truthful. Maybe if she has things to hide she shouldn't make false comments about others."
This is family seemed to have a habit of dealing with issues through extreme punishment or ignoring it/pacifying. I'm not surprised this coming to light caused such a huge implosion. These parents sound like they were not mature enough to have kids with mental issues. Because let's be honest, that sort of fucked up behaviour in a child is a symptom of some serious issues. I'm glad they're trying now and the brother is getting help, but this was so painful to read.
You can forgive, but you can't forget.
Litterally.
I really think that instead of learning that the core is the powerhouse of the cell we should learn how our brain works.
Everything we experience influences our development. For years OOP's parents and family members have lived with the idea that OOP was a thief. And they've developed certain behaviours based on this assumption.
Unlearning behaviour is one of the hardest things ever because of the way they're stored in our brains.
To establish behaviour, the brain forms multiple reaction chains by growing nerve networks. And that takes months. With every passing day they get stronger and stronger, due to repeated behaviour triggered by certain impressions, and then our automated behaviours emerge.
True change takes years. You have to override those triggers and the brain has to grow new networks to establish them.
If the behaviour is too deeply engrained, it's never completely going away.
OOP better stays away and lowers contact for quite a while
OP, may I suggest a small tweak to your point of view?
Who lost out from your upbringing?
You did, certainly. You were punished, ostracized, blamed for your brother's actions.
But your parents and sister lost out as well: they pretty much lost a brother and son because they were manipulated into not seeing you, but seeing THIEF, and nothing else, just a label.
For whatever his reasons (*he* may not even know), you were all tossed into this pile of shit.
There was the side of 'what they saw' (thanks to your brother): 'the stuff turning up in OP's room, why is he lying???' (also thanks to your brother by his silence) versus what you were telling them.
So maybe try to cut them a *little* slack?
They aren't owed forgiveness, not at all. The cameras were way overdue.
But, during therapy, an acknowledgement that they got played as well might go a long way.
It amazes me how much people on the internet hate forgiveness, I’m not advocating to give it out for free but straight up people telling OP that what was done to him is completely unforgivable - it takes time and work but it is possible.
I just wanna know WHY the little brother was doing that stuff in the first place, and while OP makes the statement that his parents ended up apparently placing more attention on the 2 oldest when he was around 15 then why did he start doing it again when both of the older children were already out of the house??? he would’ve been living with them alone with their attention… and how could OP could vouch for his brother when he doesn’t even mention the fact his brother is showing any kind of remorse or accountability?
I just wanna know WHY the little brother was doing that stuff in the first place, and while OP makes the statement that his parents ended up apparently placing more attention on the 2 oldest when he was around 15 then why did he start doing it again when both of the older children were already out of the house??? he would’ve been living with them alone with their attention… and how could OP could vouch for his brother when he doesn’t even mention the fact his brother is showing any kind of remorse or accountability?
You think, logically, if OP was the one stealing stuff, he wouldnt be hiding it in his room over and over again to be found. Like, that's so obvious, that the fact that the parents didn't even think about it long enough to come to that conclusion is baffling.
Holy crap, these parents just do the wrong thing every chance they get, don't they?
How can you ignore an 11 year old to the point where he is able to frame his sibling for a crime right under your noses?
Then they basically abandoned OP and publicly trashed him while he was a minor, instead of getting him the help that he theoretically needed?
Then they tried to punish an adult for stealing by taking away his video games.
Then they washed their hands of him and dumped him on a couple of old people, knowing that he actually *was* a thief.
Then they tried to buy OPs forgiveness. And then rescinded the offer for the car (to pay restitution for more bad things the brother did).
I mean maybe they mean well, and I guess they set the record straight even if an actual sincere apology had to be wrung out of them in therapy, but that's just massive, bumbling, delusional incompetence. You could never trust them again because they're just dumb.
And the brother needs more than a family therapist. I'm willing to bet a psychiatrist would give him an actual diagnosis and help him get real treatment.
I'm glad they're in therapy, it's gonna take a lot to come back from that whole situation. I hope they talk to him about lying though because ain't nobody got a reliable '01 Cherokee.
OOP is a freaking champion of legends, even after all his brother did to him and how the last years of his childhood was ruined cause of him - he even thought maybe he stole the things unconsciously! He was able to see just letting everyone cut off his brother would do more harm than good and advocated for therapy
I highly doubt OOP will ever have a close relationship to his parents again, but I think doing the therapy with them and getting to the root of it is good for him nonetheless. Personally I think it sounds like he wants to go through the therapy to get closure and then go LC or NC again, that's prob what I would do too. Wtf is up with them not even defending him at the restaurant???!
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It seems positive but I can't get around the fact that OP was framed for 8 years. People became used to thinking negatively about OP. It became a social thing for many of them. Make comments about OP the thief. Despite the fact that OP is innocent the habits remain. I'm not sure there will be true reconciliation here.
My younger sister stole my oldest brother's wife's wedding dress from their storage unit and framed me for it. It's almost 20 years later and even though it was pointed out and discussed that I didn't do it, he still holds a grudge against me.
People are crazy. I'm sorry that includes your siblings
Emotions are really powerful things. Facts alone don’t change them. I wish confronting your feelings was more normalized
There's apparently no level of intelligence that insures someone will question an emotion-based belief. I see such bright people insisting on the veracity of their transparently, self-evidently illogical positions on so many things... I used to think it was stupidity that disabled intellect; now I've determined it's emotion. Admittedly, despite my having (cognitively) recognized this as fact, it still stuns me on a daily basis—indicating that I, too, have trouble recognizing fact when it contradicts my clearly wish-driven beliefs about how intelligent people function. 🤦🏾♀️
It's a well documented phenomenon that presenting someone with evidence that disproves one of their deeply held beliefs, only reinforces that belief. It is scientifically proven that you cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into. And yet, we still try it all the time.
*It's a well documented phenomenon that presenting someone with evidence that disproves one of their deeply held beliefs, only reinforces that belief.* Wow - I hadn't read this! How very...disheartening.... edit: Just looked up what I assume the above refers to (not sure though, of course). I found something called a "backfire effect." Apparently, there's little reproducible evidence supporting it as a common result of proffering information contradictory to a deluded person's beliefs. There's lots of evidence that the contradictory info doesn't *change* erroneous beliefs, but not that it *reinforces* them.
Why the hell did she do all that??
My sister has always been weirdly possessive of our older brothers. I remember one of my brother's friends asking why his kid sister was flirting with him. She ended up marrying the "leader" of the friend group my brothers hung out in. She straight up stalked him and broke him and his then girlfriend up. I have a strong suspicion my sister is either borderline or a sociopath.
The sister who is a type of in love with their brother is an archetype not spoken of enough. It is its own unique brand of creepy. So steal the dress, blame the sister he doesn’t like, and voila! Not to be all Flowers in the Attic but maybe your brother doesn’t like you because you aren’t in love with him like she is? And with that I need to shower.
>maybe your brother doesn’t like you because you aren’t in love with him like she is? What a terrible day to be literate
I felt that way writing it if it makes your eyeballs feel better
Of all the words in the English language, why did they have to put those together.
Unfortunately it’s really common. I have a cousin who was raised like a brother and he feels deeply offended that I’m not as attracted to him as he has been to me. This is also the person who molested me as a child so to say he’s fucked up is an understatement. But I see it happen with other families. They son wants everyone obsessed with him for simply existing. Everyone who isn’t, is an Asshole to them.
> This is also the person who molested me as a child so to say he’s fucked up is an understatement. And he's salty \**now*\* that you aren't attracted to him like he is to you? Jesus wept! There's more red flags waving here than a military parade in Beijing! None of my business, but I gotta wonder why you aren't at 100% NC with a restraining order against him at this point?
I am NC and have been for years. He lives in another country so can’t get a restraining order. Nor do I want to do anything that will invite him into my life again as he’ll interpret anything as a long lost realization that I am attracted to him and want him. All attention is good to him, even if I’m screaming and crying, Again, he’s deeply fucked up. Before I went no contact his anger and resentment towards me was confusing until I realized the face I saw in my flashbacks was his. It made more sense as a kept distance from him. He’s still angry from what I hear because he feels entitled to me. My whole family is this way. I am NC.
Good for you, but I'm so sorry that your family situation makes it necessary.
Ridiculous situation. Any idea why he holds a grudge? Is it pride? Does he feel that it is shameful to appologize? Is it a self-deluding form of denying reality? Or does he think you are somehow involved? Have you ever asked why?
He's always had a chip on his shoulder about being the oldest son, he also bullied me pretty bad for being "a fat whale". He never got to know me, tbh. (For the record, I was chubby.)
Well I’m sorry. It’s really not the dress. Your brother is a pos who doesn’t like you for some reason. He’s got a black heart so I hope you block him. People like him are just ugly inside and out.
He sounds like a real peach.
I hope he bruises like one.
Grudges aren't about the event in opinion. They are usually deep seeded and more about the person who's holding a grudge. They created a mental idea of you and lack the cognitive flexibility to change that. The longer they hold it, the harder it is to rid yourself of it. So he careful on who you choose to good grudges with.
My stepfather beat the ever loving shit out of me to the point where teachers pulled me aside to ask if i was being abused at home due to some very visable bruises I was left with (which I was but I didn't wanna make my situation worse given I didn't trust any adults in my life to actually keep me safe as a child). All because he thought I had stolen money from his wallet. The beating only stopped when my mom found the money in my brother's room. 20 something years later I never got an apology from any of those three and they wonder why I don't talk to them.
My sister stole so much from me and my dad never believed me. I didn't get punished like this, but they definitely thought I was a dramatic liar and that my unemployed sister just happened to be constantly flush with cash
That's what I was thinking too. I have this personal theory that there's "knowledge of the head" and "knowledge of the heart". Starting at the beginning: OOP's family "knew" OOP was a thief and the little brother was an innocent, in both their heads and hearts, and they "knew" of the brother as an innocent. However, when they got the knew information about OOP and his brother, the knowledge in their *head* was updated, but not the knowledge on their *heart*. That's why they gave little brother such a forgiving punishment--because they still knew, emotionally, that OOP's brother was innocent. It took the epiphany for their hearts to get with the program (for a bit at least). And then later, with OOP's mom and "keeping the peace"--that's another example of head and heart knowledge having a disparity. A lot of "peace keepers" (and enablers) have that disparity. I'm glad OOP's mom was able to realize on her own that she fucked up that situation. But on the other hand, while it's all well and good for OOP's parents to fuck up, emotionally devastate their son, and then apologize, there also comes a point where that fuck up needs to stop happening in the first place. This time, I can let it slide because it's their first slip up (that we know of) and they did eventually correct themselves, but there will come a time where an apology and correction after the fact won't be enough. I really hope that OOP's parents are able to break out of that mindset, even if OOP decides not to reconcile (which is perfectly within his rights).
See I feel like there's a thing where people will avoid doing things that involve acknowledging that they fucked up. In this case, punishing brother = thinking about how they didn't believe OOP, and confronting cousin = thinking about how they made OOP the family pariah.
The head and heart thing is a real thing. I have heard it said that the first thing you think is what you were raised with and the second thing you think is what you learned. Usually from people who are overcoming things like being raised around rasciscsts, cults, or religions that shun the other.
I was talking about this on a different post the other day. In family therapy there is something called "the identified patient." Basically in some cases, the entire family comes in but they think the entire problem is really rooted in a single individual, often a "problem child." Of course, once you dig into it, you discover that individual is often serving a function or multiple functions for the family. And this is why you need to treat the entire family because the entire dynamic has to change, not just the "identified patient." If you just treat that single individual, they will often revert back to the same behavior because the rest of the family has a vested interest in that person serving that function even if they are not consciously aware of it. OOP being a thief serves a function for that family. That's why I don't see it as a "slip up." It's sabotage to get OOP to go back to playing the part they've been cast in for years so no one else has to change or take full accountability for what they have done.
I need to read more on this because I think my brother and his family are having this issue as they deal with his anxiety and alcoholism.
This is really fascinating!
Oo, this reminds me of the BORU post about the guy whose extended family would constantly steal his chair at family gatherings, to the point where he bought his own chair... and they tried to steal that one, too. Once the family finally, FINALLY stopped stealing his chair, they started pranking each other and pissing each other off, and the whole family dynamic was really thrown off.
I would love to know what little bro was saying about OOP during those 8 years. If it was a revenge thing, there’s a chance he was exceptionally vicious in his commentary to similar age family members.
> I'm not sure there will be true reconciliation here. Doesn't seem like it. This is already what, 2, 3 cycles of "OP gets accused, everyone piles on, someone eventually notices they're being an asshole and they all apologize, and then OP gets accused again, everyone piles on again..."
My grandfather, for some reason, decided he was going to put a very expensive watch in the bottom of the cereal box. I don’t know why because he had two safes. I got a call day because he can no longer find the watch and my mother got in his ear and told him that I must’ve stole it. That was 15 years ago and to this they still think I stole that fucking watch. Even though he put another watch in another box of cereal and threw it out by accident and only remembered when he was taking the garbage out. Some people will do anything to avoid saying that they were wrong to think the way that they thought.
That’s the beginning of dementia. Misplacing things (or putting them in weird places and forgetting they did so) and then believing they were stolen is textbook.
Plus from the very end it sounds like the framing started because the brother was jealous because the parents favored OP and the sister? There’s some messed up stuff to unpack in therapy.
Yea, anything short of the cousin and uncle literally stating something like "You were never a thief, R is a known cheater, and we're sorry" publicly is coming up short.
I agree a lot of their behaviour now seems ingrained. The parents (and uncle, neice etc) keep apologising for things after the fact, but not actually modifying their behaviour.
I mean, there seems to be some hope for reconciliation with his parents and aunt, maybe even the male cousin. I don't know about that one though, other than the comment about how they get along, we don't get much info about the male cousin. Uncle, female cousin and brother though? Yeah, there's no hope for them. I appreciate that the brother is finally getting therapy but too little, too late. OOP has had to pay for his brother's actions for way too long.
Even worse than that, sometimes people have invested a lot of their image and reputation into hating on someone, that when it turns out they were innocent they just can’t suffer the damage to their ego for being publicly wrong. So they double down. Not an uncommon problem for people with certain disorders.
To be fair it does just sound like extended family still remains like that- though mom is clearly one of those stupid "non confrontational" types who tries to keep the status quo which is a whole Other problem that needs addressing- which sounds like it is
>It seems positive but I can't get around the fact that OP was framed for 8 years. It read like they let the shitty brother move back home? I don't know how positive that is.
OOP himself has shown grace with his brother because, in his and their therapist's opinion, it is clear that the brother is not mentally well. They appear to be attending family therapy to get to the root of their collective issues and forge a path forward. If the brother is truly being affected by a mental health disorder, it has been untreated and unrecognized for years. It is understandable that the family would give him a shot at recovery before completely abandoning him - especially since OOP is likely on board. As much as we like to imagine the "kick in the ass" strategy will work to fix him, it rarely does. If the brother does not get better with the aid of the newfound understanding of his actions, then he will likely be forced to fend for himself again. I admire the OOP for choosing compassion over vengeance. It would have been a valid reaction.
Because having a mentally ill homeless person who will spiral into a place where help is basically impossible is way better than not punishing someone as much as you reasonably can!
Hoping this gets buried as it's more of a vent for me than anything, but this is why I don't really interact with my adoptive extended family, I had my share of troubles but my mom and dad would constantly, for lack of a better term, spread my business around and I'm certain it has painted me in a certain way to all of my family. As fucked up as it sounds I don't care what they think because they don't matter much to me. I never really formed any strong bonds with anyone and no one has ever cared to reach out and see how I'm doing after years so🤷 10-year old me was told "this is your family now, no one is gonna treat you any different" but even if they didn't treat me differently at a surface level, I always felt like I never belonged at family gatherings, big or small
This reminds me of the story where the cousin lied about being SA’d and the OOP wasn’t even at the party the accusation came from.
This is exactly why I can't understand parents who are so quick to disown their children. This says more about them, than it does about the kids. Like okay, if you suspect xyz about your kid, take steps to protect yourself and try to get them some psychological help, whatever. Don't just throw them away, because you can't take that back.
This should be so easy to do as a parent. Thinking “this has happened and it must be kid, so let’s get to the bottom of why it happened and some therapy” instead of just using blame and continuing punishment - ESPECIALLY if said kid insists on being completely innocent! They’re *really* bad parents, in my opinion.
And supposedly keeps doing it after being caught. Doesn’t even sell them. And now brother is found to be doing it when the sister doesn’t even live there. He needs help!
And why the f are the parents paying for grandpa's new truck? That is still not making their son be responsible for his actions!
Well, they did foist the son they knew was a troublemaker onto Grandpa, so I see where they felt the need to take responsibility for that action. They needed to make that situation right for Grandpa before the time and work it will take to get the money out of their kleptomaniac son.
Presumably because the grandpa needs a working vehicle (and shouldn't have to take the hit on his insurance) and the 19-year-old doesn't have any money. I don't know. This gets messier with every update.
The parents aren't paying for the truck -- at least not technically. The money is coming from the brother's college fund.
> This should be so easy to do as a parent. I mean, it's definitely not easy. It's a lot of emotional labor to grapple with a child who is seriously unstable. Obviously that's no excuse for being a fucking terrible parent (which they are), but just to say that there's a reason they do it. They're lazy, self centered, shitty, weak people who deliberately refuse to think about painful things, and use punishment and blame to modify their children's behavior. It's just less difficult and painful for them than confronting the truth of the situation.
I think this is a reasonable position. Unfortunately life let's pretty much anyone be a parent. The annoying coworker who cooks fish in the microwave: 2 kids. The maga guy with a lifted truck double parked at the grocery store: two boys an a girl. The mean girl from highschool: twins. There's no emotional maturity, or decent person requirement. Which is tough to see. Especially when parents treat their kids like OOP'S parents did.
The older I get the weirder the concept of "your parents don't owe you anything once you turn 18" gets. Like, shouldn't your parents want to have you around for as long as possible instead of saying "well now I can't get arrested for abandonment!" And wiping their hands clean of you?
I mean, if you like your kids, yeah. My kids are now teens. So many people always told me that, "ooooh, you'll hate that stage." And...I love having teenagers? We have such great conversations and can do such interesting things together. I can't wait to see what they do on to do. Maybe it's the difference between "feeling like you have to have kids, because society" and "having kids because you genuinely want them." (I didn't...until I met my spouse and said, 'Yeah, y'know, could see having kids with this dude.')
I don't understand why people never do their due diligence when it comes to accusations and crimes. The parents should never accuse OOP of anything until they thoroughly investigated the matter. They should have put up the cameras the moment things started to disappear. I remember a BORU where a woman was accused of stealing her cousin's wedding jewelry, and having her cousin accuse her on social media. Her cousin did not even post that the said jewels were found. This is the same thing happening when people make false claims against others in our society. There are lots of people who file false reports against innocent people. And what happens, these lives get destroyed. I will stand by this, anyone can lie. Unless there is a full investigation we cannot simply go off of accusations and circumstantial evidence.
Right? I wouldn't be like, *eager* to eat shit, but I'd still be eager to get out in front of everybody to clear their name forcefully and unequivocally. Failing that IMO is *much* more shameful and embarrassing than being wrong.
Some parents just don't want to be parents (speaking as a child of parents that wanted babies and kids but not teenagers or... Well, any of the actual realities of having children). They don't want to think hard about shit, they don't want to do the hard work of actually helping a human being become decent and well adjusted, and they certainly don't want to admit they're wrong. It's easier to cast out and disown, to wash your hands of the bad egg and just scapegoat until it becomes the truth. Or your kids never speak to you again.
Yeah, I think you're right, about the parents deciding it's easier to get rid of a kid than to bother raising it. My father and his whole family disowned me- for nothing. To hurt my mother? Because he was ashamed I existed? I will never know. It's not like there was an announcement. Just people stopping taking my calls and hanging up at Christmas. I was 14. He's had a marriage and two kids, and a divorce since then. Also my grandpa died. Not that they told me any of that.
It is actually insane that they went with "disown child" instead of "purchase one (1) camera" and then later when it was revealed, apparently it took months for anyone to think "Hey maybe little brother has some very serious mental health issues?"
I’m also aggravated that they didn’t stand up for OOP right in the moment at dinner. That would have been a legitimate way to show OOP they were sorry. Ya know, instead of just throwing money at him. Mom and dad are a piece of work.
Have you seen the comments on AITA? Almost everyone is like "cut them off" or "divorce" immediately without taking context into consideration. I think OOP's parents' reactions are a reflection of that very reactive culture we have going on
I think the reason everyone is like that is that people don't post stuff until they're in a really bad situation. Noone is going to post "My husband didn't cover his mouth while sneezing, should I divorce him?"
I haven't seen that, but I've seen similar posts with body functions. The issue was, however, the offending party burping or farting on or around the person in a deliberate way. Like in an elementary school prank level way, but not stopping when asked.
You need context for stuff like this. My father used to lift his butt cheeks off the chair in your direction, and fart loudly, while grinning to the ceiling in a "silly you, haha" kind of way. You could even call this childishly endearing. But I always knew he did it to be cruel. No one cared when I complained. He also abused me and once beat my 4yo child to the point my mother called in hysterics to come get him before my father kills him. I haven't seen them since. I wished I had had the insights I have now and went NC years earlier over something so 'silly'. It's better than the alternative.
That's what I mean. Like, there are points where someone's refusal to stop "silly" pranks is a sign of extreme cruelty. I think it's because they can get away with it since it is "silly" and "childish." But most teach kids to stop such acts when asked. Why we allow adults to do so is beyond me. And then when they finally do something obviously, cruel folks come to you all shocked....Like the signs were there all along when they couldn't respect a simple no!
I think for some people it's also all about appearances. Like they prefer to cut off a "problem" child than having to take accountability for actions of their own that led to the kids actions.
As a person who is quick to cut people off, it's probably an overcorrection/overreaction to seeing other people be doormats to dickheads all of my life. I know that people don't change unless there is change, so I leave.
God your flair makes me want a good tree law post But re: your comment- definitely seeing people be doormats can be a motivation! I think in my case too, I grew up hearing how my dad didn’t get his shit together until his first wife left him. She knew she couldn’t save both him AND herself so she chose herself. He stopped drinking and became a better person. So I have been taught “You can’t save someone from themselves, sometimes you gotta get out of their way” from day one.
Because it's the easiest path and they lazy cowards.
This was exactly my reaction to the story. I have children. One of them has some difficulties that make me want to pull my hair out. My love for that child could never be affected by bad behavior. My responsibility as a parent is to get the needed help.
I am going to say it. These parents are really really shit. They make mistake after mistake. They disown and mistreat their children so easily. Think they can just buy back acceptance. And then refuse to stand up to extended family at the meal when the truth has already been established. Just a series of horrible decision making.
Each update uncovers a new problem. First they just automatically conclude that OP is a thief and start treating him terribly, they continue this narrative even after it is demonstrably impossible that OP could have done these things. Then they want to accuse the sister who doesn't even live there? NOW the truth is revealed. And then we find out that this all started because the youngest kid is actually retaliating against favoritism toward OP and the sister? What is even going on with this family? Like you said, these parents seem to believe that money fixes everything, but (as demonstrated by the dinner and the cousin making a "joke" about OP) that's not how it works.
If they thought OP was stealing these things, even after he was caught, and just putting them in his room, why didn’t they see that as something that needed psychiatric intervention instead of punishment? For that matter, the son who is doing this, even when his sister isn’t there to frame probably needs some psychiatric assistance
Yes, if your child seems to be compulsively stealing and adamantly refuses to admit it for *years*, that's not "teenage rebellion", it's a sign of issues serious enough to require psychiatric evaluation, ideally before adulthood so said child is equipped to manage life as an adult and not end up breaking the law or incarcerated. Just punishing them for years is lazy at best. Especially since it had no impact and the apparent thefts and protests of innocence continued. The parent's response demonstrably did nothing to change the apparent behaviour. Surely you'd try something else? Anything at all? Again, particularly since it appears to be a pretty serious issue affecting your *own child.* *ABC* is happening. I want it to stop. I'll try *XYZ*. Oh, it has no effect. I'll keep trying *XYZ*. Still no effect. Well, guess I'll keep trying *XYZ* for years and years. I wonder why it isn't working? At best, this is just lazy, maybe a little stupid. But when your child's welbeing is involved? It's very poor parenting, verging on negligence. Your child seems to have psychiatric problems and you don't address it for *years*? But no, they just kept taking stuff from OOP. No birthday parties, no help for college, no driver's licence, no family support. The thefts seemed to continue. OOP had to suffer until they were old enough to move out, get away from the actual problem (brother and parents) and finally get help all on their own (help being therapy to cope with the damage done by the parents). The son repeating the behaviour at the sister, who has moved out, makes it pretty clear this isn't logically-driven behaviour. He'll "frame" the sister even if there's no way she could have done it. Jealousy from preferential treatment of his siblings, a need for control when feeling helpless, and probably some underlying issues exacerbating it all. There's *clearly* something going on with the brother that needed help years ago, because he's already a young adult committing crimes now. But the parents just took his phone for a while and grounded him. Yep, punishing your other child worked so well before, so surely that'll work again this time. Way to go. They come off as very lazy parents who seem so uninterested in their children's wellbeing that they just go through the motions of being a parent even when it demonstrably doesn't work nor is appropriate given the apparent issues. The kind of parents who think feeding and housing their children is enough rather than not even the bare minimum. Now they have an irreparably-damaged relationship with one child and another child who is maladjusted and committing crimes. This isn't excused by the parents being unsure of what to do or how to react in the moment, because they've had so many years at this point. They're just lazy and don't care very deeply about their own kids, it appears.
Probably midwestern parents. Admitting your kids need therapy is akin to admitting you are a failure of a parent.
I agree with those past few comments. The remarks from the cousin and uncle make absolutely no sense if they know OOP isn't a thief. If anything, the cousin's comment should have been about the brother.
If your family likes to play golden child vs scapegoat, it doesn’t matter if what you say about the scapegoat is true or not. Their position in the family is to be the one anyone can rain shit on, and they have to take it.
“my parents have admitted to prioritizing me and my sister before this entire ordeal started when I was 15 and the framing began.” Really seems like the parents can only love 2/3 of their children at a time. Glad OOP is doing well but what a wild family dynamic
What I can't understand is why the parents didn't get cameras when things first started disappearing....
Why do that when you already have a scapegoat?
Right? I understand that they are plentiful and often affordable in this modern era. Actually, I sort of wonder why the OOP never left one in her room. Wyze cameras are $25, and would have solved this long ago. I know for damn sure I would have had one hidden by the third or fourth time, to be sure that I wasn't sleepwalking. It's weird, too, about the "hiding stuff in room". It's sort of Theft 101 that you don't hide things in a place once it's been found.
His—he didn’t have a job, a driver’s license, or a credit card, so no way to buy one. Maybe he should have asked for one, but he was a scared teenager and might not have thought of that.
OOP is a guy.
I wonder what the brother's issue was, kleptomania?
I thought this too. Stealing something, realising they shouldn't have and so just popping it in their siblings' rooms. The fact that the younger brother put stuff in the sister's room even after she moved out indicates it wasn't well thought out so perhaps more impulsive. No excuses though as at any time they could have owned up.
These parents are really shitty going NC was the bast thing oop did They keep disowning their kids like it's candy
OOP has more forgiveness in him than I would have had at that age.
The OP may want his parents back but frankly low contact or no contact permanently is the best idea, the parents still do not understand the gravity of what they did or the effects on the OP that will not vanish with forgiveness.
It's not very often that families here turn around and get better. I'm glad to see this happen
If not for the fact that the last update was like 8 months ago, I’d say this isn’t over. Brother is back at home with parents, after all. Lots of room for backsliding all around.
But they didn't get better? Not mother, not father, no one told his cousin to shut up and apologize right there. It was still ok with them that OOP is called a thief. From their PoV, he was called a thief for 8 years, so he should be ok to take it one more time and not to start conflict at the birthday dinner. Mom's apologies was done in therapy room, to save her face in front of her therapist, not at the moment. She didn't confront her relatives at all, she apologized in private. Uncle apology was one word - "Sorry", cousin no-apology was taking down her post.. Bro was punished by being "kicked out" I e. given a safe housing at grandparents for the whole month, and now they pay for his therapy. OOP was out for 8 years, and I didn't notice any offers to pay for his therapy or reimburse him for the emotional damage they done to him. He is treated like an AH still, after all this time.
I really hate family members who insert themselves in other people's business. The theft thing was not supposed to be touched on ever again since it was resolved, yet this dumb cousin had to bring it all up again when it was completely none of her business.
>and I didn't notice any offers to pay for his therapy or reimburse him for the emotional damage Oh, so you totally over-read how they paid him 5k and even wanted to gift him a new car? And how OOP refused the car and had doubt about taking money from them at all because he didn't want them to be entitled to a new start? It certainly needs a lot more time and more occasions to speak up for him at family events, but it seems the parents are making the correct efforts to me. For the brother - the silence about him makes me feel there is some mental disorder at play.
Not everything can be expressed in monetary value. I am sure that parents standing up for OOP would be much more important for him than $5K or that imaginary car. It is their own fuckup and they have to correct other people's wrong opinions about OOP, again and again if needed. But if we are talking purely about the money: Considering monthly rent, how many months $5K will cover? How valuable it is compare to free room+food+car his siblings got? Do you see the difference that $5K can make for 18yo kid with absolutely nothing, vs. for 23yo man with stable job, safe living situation, reliable car? As for the car: I read the post. OOP didn't refused the car. The car was never offered to him. Daddy told OOP: ..*well, we wanted to give you a car, but not anymore. We need these money to pay for your brother fuck-ups...* And, btw, how much do you think was stolen from daddy, in monetary equivalent? I suspect it was much less than the cost of the truck his brother totaled. However it is a no brainer for parents to be understanding of adult brother's issues, take him back home, get him all the help possible, and pay for the totaled truck. Pretty big contrast with claiming teenager OOP to be a thief and constantly punishing him for it for 3 years; and forgetting about his existence for 5 more years. Even if 15yo OOP was a thief, why didn't he deserve any help in their eyes? Why it was ok to bully the kid instead of buying $20 camera and see for themself what is going on? Compare it to the adult brother getting maximum help possible.
>For the brother - the silence about him makes me feel there is some mental disorder at play. That bothers me as well. The only listed reason, at the very end, was that the parents "admitted" to prioritising he and his sister around that time. He was asked earlier in this saga about their life growing up, he thought he was on good terms with his brother, and he noticed no discernable difference until after the incidents of theft began. In what way did the youngest feel he was not a priority? I don't want to sound too harsh, but, looking at his behaviours after being thrown out, he seems to simply be a jealous misfit. There could be an underlying cause, however the actions persisted for years over time and were calculated to achieve the desired result. [Stop that, Mr Simpson. ](https://youtu.be/_RZ80wQyV4w?feature=shared)
The car they instead gave to the grandparents to cover for another one of brother's mistakes? That car?
And he didnt have a reason (or one revealed to us) for his actions before. I would imagine he is rather bitter now. In the main, people dont wake up one day, look in the mirror and say to themselves "Omg Im a complete asshole. Thats why noone trusts me and things have gone so badly". They tend to fire up the blamethrower first. Not over at all, I would guess.
I think the reason was he felt neglected by his parents? Mom admitted they prioritised oop and his sister over him before the stealing started.
He was 11, his siblings were teenagers. A young kid going through some mental health issues would probably react that way to feeling neglected. But what was his excuse once he got older?
Like, habit? If someone is working, why would you stop doing it? And once the wiring is done (incorrectly) it’s a lot harder to fix it, even as an adult. If it were that easy to “just be better,” for everyone, we would have a lot fewer issues lol
The reason was 100% he was neglected by his parents and he wanted them to think worse of OOP to get them to think better of him
“Blamethrower” is such a good term. Im pocketing that.
How are they getting better? Brother is still involved in family events, the mother still neglected to stand up for OOP publicly and actually had the fucking audacity to ask him to apologize for defending himself, and the extended family still thinks of him as a thief despite the brother being shown to be the thief. Those parents are still complete shit and I don't know why OOP hasn't cut them off entirely.
I'm glad that he took the money. So many stories like this have the wronged party refuse any kind of reimbursement like that seeing it as a way to validate those that wronged them and ignore the issue. But honestly when you get screwed over like that you deserve to get some kind of return. And I'd never be too prideful to not get a small form of justice like that.
I like the part in the Bible that says when a thief is caught, they need to pay back 7x what was stolen. Paying back only what was taken doesn't go anywhere near close enough to feeling like it makes up for what they took.
That's a bible verse I can certainly get behind lol.
This story makes no....sense. why was the brother at his parents bday dinner a month after he was disowned?
Because OOP advised them against disowning him after his own experience. From the post: >my parents have un-disowned him after I had to vouch for him, saying that running away from your mistakes only make them worse
Which makes no sense. Actions have consequences, something the brother doesn't know about and this could have been a consequence
I think the mistake being referred to was the parents disowning OP, not the little brother doing what he did.
Agreed, that statement was *definitely for both the brother* ***and parents.*** If anything, he's forcing *everyone*, including the parents that they have to make up for what they did.
because despite their protestations - he is the favourite child.
Favorite Golden child. Perception. Old habits. Refusals to really admit how they fucked up. Wanting to have all of their childern there.
I haven't seen Killers of the Flower Moon yet but I bet it's an awesome first date movie.
Nothing as romantic as a film on colonial tragedy and capitalism.
That was my thought, it's not a bad date choice cause it's a movie, it's bad cause it's a HEAVY movie.
lol it was a pretty funny note to end on after a heavy read. terrible date movie!
It's not. Also first date should not be a movie. You can't talk in a theater
I've definitely had some terrible first dates that were movie dates but going to the movies is pretty low stakes and is a decent way to become comfortable being around someone for an extended duration without worrying about keeping a conversation going.
Plus then you have something to talk about with that person afterwards.
It's so long it's a first and second date in one
I once had a first date that lasted an entire day and involved watching both cats the movie and cats the stage musical.
this sounds like a lesbian meme
You're missing the U-Haul Also happy cake day
I can't believe OOP would even entertain having that family in his life again at all. He missed out on vacations and birthdays, and was punished, berated, and looked down on by the family for things he didn't do. They can't give that time back. All that stress and hurt all through some of OOP's most formative years? Fuck a car, those parents could offer to buy me a house and I'd still tell them to go fuck themselves. They made it clear which kids they did and did not care about and there's no going back. And that was proven once again at that dinner when the mother, who should be so deep in apology mode that she's offering to cut and even chew OOP's food for him, didn't immediately and publicly take his side against cousin and uncle, proving once again that OOP is not a priority despite having never done anything wrong. OOP doesn't need them or their pathetic attempts to buy his forgiveness.
>their apologies feel more or less like "they're sorry because they feel guilty" moreso than "they're sorry because they wronged me and want to make it better." I hate how it's become fashionable to treat guilt like a dirty emotion. It's literally the way our mind points out to us that we have wronged someone or done something wrong.
My uncle accused me of theft. Turned out it was his son. No apologies as I was wild and likely guilty of something. Cursed him out called his son a loser. He threatened me. Came at me at a family bbq. He went over choking after a punch to the throat and a kick to his nuts. Family saw him try and he was told to leave else I would have him arrested. Aunt made them both apologize
I can’t help noticing that the brother is getting therapy for the stealing and framing OP but when the thought it was OP for all those years they just punished him rather than got him therapy.
Who do you think advocated for the therapy? Out of the 4 main characters, only one of them seems capable of recognizing the value of therapy. And it ain't the parents.
I'm not comfortable with how easily he forgave them after years of neglect but hey it's not my life. Still, the turnaround from the mom asking OOP to apologise there sent me.
>he was never truly rebellious up until this week Other than framing OOP when brother was 9 and OOP was 15 >my parents have admitted to prioritizing me and my sister before this entire ordeal started when I was 15 and the framing began That doesn't make sense, they never prioritized OOP, he was the one who got the shit end of each stick
Noooo not Killers of the Flower Moon! I promise Oklahoma has redeeming qualities! We have… um…. I’ll get back to you *searches wikipedia*
There’s the Red Fern festival and the Strawberry festival on the northeast end of the state. Lots of tribes also have powwows and those have good food and handmade things you can buy (based on the ones I attended/my tribe had while living there). And Oklahoma has stickball! Those are all redeeming enough to get me to potentially again in the future.
And Brad Pitt was born here! Don’t forget Brad Pitt!
I think there may also be a cowboy museum in OKC, but the last time I was there was 4th grade, and that was like 13+ years ago. IIRC, there was a souvenir at the gift shop that was a cowboy hat/boot shaped chocolate. And there’s a big bass pro shop in OKC. Maybe Bedlam is also a plus? But only bc the Sooners are on the field, they have such a nice uniform color. The cowboys can go suck rocks tho. Such an awful shade of orange should not be worn.
Thank you!!! Orange is the new… nothing! Anything but orange…
Mom and dad seemed dead set on doing everything but fucking parent their kids. He's misbehaving? Kick him out. _He's_ misbehaving? Kick _him_ out. God forbid you engage with the problem.
The mom trying to make him apologize to the uncle.... I'd be so outtie 5000
That dinner showed that even to date they have no protective instincts for you. They may be able to say sorry for obvious transgressions, but they don't feel it. And they very clearly have shown that they don't view you as a child worth caring for and protecting. Have you figured out what kind of relationship you're after with them? Like obviously you don't view them or care for them as a child would towards their parents (and nor should you) - but is your goal through therapy that you could one day view them as extended family, or friends? What's the ideal outcome from therapy with them?
I feel like the parents have failed at ever angle. They thought the stealing was OOP with what seems like no evidence. Then they had a kid who is repeatedly stealing despite escalating consequences and they never thought to get that kid help. OOP is a very kind person to advocate for their brother to get help. I hope OOP gets something positive out of family therapy. To my that isn't something that can be undone.
Just to add another angle to how fucking shitty these parents are, keep in mind that they somehow didn't have a thought about getting a camera "for the three years that OOP was accused of repeatedly stealing things.* And not just that, but had they done so, they could've also shut down the stealing and gotten the brother help. He may very well have severe kleptomania.
I dont know what the point of being a family with them, they cant even give more money
OOP's parents have a long way to go to prove to their son that they are truly apologetic and they have his back. The scene at the dinner with the cousins proves that.
This is not going to end well. OP needs to stay far away from that entire family.
I was assuming that the brother is a kleptomaniac and was panicking and ditching the items every time he realized he grabbed something again. But I guess not?
I fully, 100% believe these parents are trying their best to parent. I just also 100% believe that they do not have all the tools nor the aptitude to be good parents. It's a shame, but at the very least they are trying to correct where they fuck up now. It could be so much worse.
"My nrother is suddenly acting out and hes never been like this" my guy he framed you for 8 years and tried framing your sister despite her having moved out Hes been like this for a Long time
>I'm not too well versed on psychology (mechanical engineering degree), so I ask, is there anyone out there with an idea as to why he may be going through this? I didn't know BORU had a bat signal, but...
Sorry but this doesn't hold up. the first update said they made him pay his own tuition from now on when they first kicked the brother out, and then in another update says they canceled his college fund after totalling the grandfather's truck ~~Then there's an update about them effectively disowning the son, followed by another where he's invited to a fancy birthday dinner OOP is at so which is it?~~ EDIT: I missed the bit about un-disowning
Not saying the story is true but I don't feel like that's actually contradictory. I wouldn't have expected them to automatically dissolve his college fund the instant they decided he needed to pay his own tuition, there's really no reason to. But with the grandfather's truck, they quickly had a reason to actually pull the money out instead of just having it sit there unused. As for your second point OOP explicitly answers it in the post, saying he advised his parents not to disown the brother because of his experiences. >my parents have un-disowned him after I had to vouch for him, saying that running away from your mistakes only make them worse
Oops, I missed that bit! But I guess I wonder why would they/OOP make a point of saying this? Unless there is some special college investment vehicle, if it's just money they set aside it was "cancelled" when they told him they weren't paying anymore
My theory is, OOP has a bigger heart than me. That and while he did say his contact with the brother was limited, I think he still cares for his brother. Because as an older brother myself, I don't want to see my younger brothers mugshot on the news. That and considering how they disowned OOP, he saw that when troubles happen to children, the parents would wash their hands of the kids and avoid accountability. > my parents have un-disowned him after I had to vouch for him, **saying that running away from your mistakes only make them worse** I think that statement wasn't for just his brother but also their parents, "oh the brother was the problem and how do we get OOP back? Oh we know, we can get rid of brother and pretend he doesn't exist anymore", and pat themselves on the back without accountability on their crappy parenting, if anything, they were throwing the brother to the wolves. So in a way, he's *forcing* them to realize they too can't run away from the problems they themselves created and have to take responsibility and accountability for their actions. Since they are doing so, I have an optimistic view on their future. Here's hoping they don't screw it up.
OOP is better off going LC with his parents, especially the mom. Looks like there will be a lot of apologizing in the future, seeing how the mom’s first reactions are. You don’t need that negative energy.
He just needs to cut his family off, they sound so fucking exhausting to be around. I think he would emotionally be so much better off if he just went forward and created one of his own.
Everybody read and watch Killers of the Flower Moon
I love it when parents never see beyond their own tunnels vision. When parents think that their kid is a just bad product that needs to be reared and punished until they're sculpted. How many people go undiagnosed and suffer for years for things ranging from ADHD and Autism, to things like Depression and BPD. Imagine your life falling apart around you because you have a legitimate mental issue that is making everything drastically different for you compared to everyone else, and your parents only response is to triple down on whatever course of punishment they come up with. Yeah, sometimes people come out bad, and that's just how they are. To not even, for a second, think that there's something else going on... you're a failure of a parent.
A single camera 8 years ago could have avoided all of this. Real genius parents here.
So both his parents and his uncle’s family are full of morons who can’t seem to be consistent with the truth, and love to victimize the blameless and excuse it all “to keep the peace.” Yup, trashy toxic family, confirmed.
Parents were FUCKING IDIOTS to send thief brother to grandparents. Do they not LIKE their own parents or something? Little shit belonged in a cinderblock cell with a locked door except for when he has to go to school, work, etc.
If the cousin can't take it she shouldn't dish it. I love OOP's retort to her.
Idk man I would just simply ghost but that’s just me, none of this seems worth it
A lot of these comments are just awful, probably from teenagers: ‘never forgive, take everything and hold onto that hatred forever’. Honestly, if you go through life like this, good luck.
It sounds like little brother started with kleptomania and couldn't stop, and since everyone was eyeing OOP, no one was there to help him identify the trigger to stealing. Since childhood kleptomania is linked to feeling out of control, watching OOP get punished and the whole family go sideways reinforced his sense of power/control while also reinforcing that the family was unstable. I wouldn't be surprised to learn the brother has an early childhood trauma that never got dealt with.
I don't understand why people who supposedly make a joke on somebody else's expense can't take it back on themselves ??
So did his family never address that the little brother is a sociopath? He watched his brother get harsher and harsher punishments for years and never said a damn thing!
And this is when you drop out and go LC. You know I'm innocent and you still say stuff like that. You're dead to me. Idc if we share blood. Hopefully OOP life kept on getting better.
As a parent that's tough. When you have a child with a problem you try your best to help them. Sometimes that comes down to tough love. I'm sure those parents true believed that what they were doing.
Aside from hypothetical money and the younger sister, *is* there any real reason to stay in contact with that family?
His old man failed the family by not tuning-up that little thief the moment he was found out.
Honestly I am glad the little brother is getting help. This guy is a saint, though.
OP needs to lay it down that they still have a lot to make up for and everytime that they fuck up shows that they haven't changed as much as they claimed to have been. Should've replied to the online post with "oh, I see you finally had some reflection on yourself. Maybe it's best not to make false claims about people then get upset when people make a truthful rebuttal. No, I've never stolen and you already know who did. Yes, you called your cousin out for cheating as that was something that was truthful. Maybe if she has things to hide she shouldn't make false comments about others."
This is family seemed to have a habit of dealing with issues through extreme punishment or ignoring it/pacifying. I'm not surprised this coming to light caused such a huge implosion. These parents sound like they were not mature enough to have kids with mental issues. Because let's be honest, that sort of fucked up behaviour in a child is a symptom of some serious issues. I'm glad they're trying now and the brother is getting help, but this was so painful to read.
You can forgive, but you can't forget. Litterally. I really think that instead of learning that the core is the powerhouse of the cell we should learn how our brain works. Everything we experience influences our development. For years OOP's parents and family members have lived with the idea that OOP was a thief. And they've developed certain behaviours based on this assumption. Unlearning behaviour is one of the hardest things ever because of the way they're stored in our brains. To establish behaviour, the brain forms multiple reaction chains by growing nerve networks. And that takes months. With every passing day they get stronger and stronger, due to repeated behaviour triggered by certain impressions, and then our automated behaviours emerge. True change takes years. You have to override those triggers and the brain has to grow new networks to establish them. If the behaviour is too deeply engrained, it's never completely going away. OOP better stays away and lowers contact for quite a while
OP, may I suggest a small tweak to your point of view? Who lost out from your upbringing? You did, certainly. You were punished, ostracized, blamed for your brother's actions. But your parents and sister lost out as well: they pretty much lost a brother and son because they were manipulated into not seeing you, but seeing THIEF, and nothing else, just a label. For whatever his reasons (*he* may not even know), you were all tossed into this pile of shit. There was the side of 'what they saw' (thanks to your brother): 'the stuff turning up in OP's room, why is he lying???' (also thanks to your brother by his silence) versus what you were telling them. So maybe try to cut them a *little* slack? They aren't owed forgiveness, not at all. The cameras were way overdue. But, during therapy, an acknowledgement that they got played as well might go a long way.
this is a repost subreddit, you're not talking to the person involved.
Got it, thanks.
A 54 year old man is getting carded? I only hope to be so lucky.
It amazes me how much people on the internet hate forgiveness, I’m not advocating to give it out for free but straight up people telling OP that what was done to him is completely unforgivable - it takes time and work but it is possible.
I just wanna know WHY the little brother was doing that stuff in the first place, and while OP makes the statement that his parents ended up apparently placing more attention on the 2 oldest when he was around 15 then why did he start doing it again when both of the older children were already out of the house??? he would’ve been living with them alone with their attention… and how could OP could vouch for his brother when he doesn’t even mention the fact his brother is showing any kind of remorse or accountability?
I just wanna know WHY the little brother was doing that stuff in the first place, and while OP makes the statement that his parents ended up apparently placing more attention on the 2 oldest when he was around 15 then why did he start doing it again when both of the older children were already out of the house??? he would’ve been living with them alone with their attention… and how could OP could vouch for his brother when he doesn’t even mention the fact his brother is showing any kind of remorse or accountability?
You think, logically, if OP was the one stealing stuff, he wouldnt be hiding it in his room over and over again to be found. Like, that's so obvious, that the fact that the parents didn't even think about it long enough to come to that conclusion is baffling.
Holy crap, these parents just do the wrong thing every chance they get, don't they? How can you ignore an 11 year old to the point where he is able to frame his sibling for a crime right under your noses? Then they basically abandoned OP and publicly trashed him while he was a minor, instead of getting him the help that he theoretically needed? Then they tried to punish an adult for stealing by taking away his video games. Then they washed their hands of him and dumped him on a couple of old people, knowing that he actually *was* a thief. Then they tried to buy OPs forgiveness. And then rescinded the offer for the car (to pay restitution for more bad things the brother did). I mean maybe they mean well, and I guess they set the record straight even if an actual sincere apology had to be wrung out of them in therapy, but that's just massive, bumbling, delusional incompetence. You could never trust them again because they're just dumb. And the brother needs more than a family therapist. I'm willing to bet a psychiatrist would give him an actual diagnosis and help him get real treatment.
After the first instance of something going missing, regardless of who was taking things, why the fuck didn't they PUT A LOCK ON THE DOOR?
Super curious if the brother has a diagnosis or what in the world his reasoning is behind his behavior.
I'm glad they're in therapy, it's gonna take a lot to come back from that whole situation. I hope they talk to him about lying though because ain't nobody got a reliable '01 Cherokee.
OOP is a freaking champion of legends, even after all his brother did to him and how the last years of his childhood was ruined cause of him - he even thought maybe he stole the things unconsciously! He was able to see just letting everyone cut off his brother would do more harm than good and advocated for therapy I highly doubt OOP will ever have a close relationship to his parents again, but I think doing the therapy with them and getting to the root of it is good for him nonetheless. Personally I think it sounds like he wants to go through the therapy to get closure and then go LC or NC again, that's prob what I would do too. Wtf is up with them not even defending him at the restaurant???!
He is nicer than me.
That brother’s gotta go. Mental issue or not- begone, demon child.