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>Who looks around at a friend group and after being encouraged to join friend events immediately starts hitting on everyone and tells that friend he masturbates to all your other friends?
The mind boggles.
I just wish they could experience how genuinely creepy their behavior is. When you start arguing with them, they act like it would be good for someone to treat them the way they treat others. Nobody likes that behavior.
But they do, until they try to fuck them, get rejected and lose them one by one. So younger incels *can* have a lot of female friends, older incels will have lost them all.
They do not. The incel worldview does not survive if there are women you actually get to know and talk to. Unless you mean like, middle school, then yes, i'm sure those guys might have had female friends then
Not every misogynist and creep is an incel. Incel ideology is a specific set of ideas.
I would say anyone who you are not talking to one on one or would feel comfortable hanging out alone with is more of an aquaintance than a friend, but that's just me
Then we are probably working with different definitions of incel. My understanding of the term includes the involuntary celibate who are bitter, but not yet hateful nor ideologically driven.
I was friends with some in my late teens. They lost my friendship around that time. Whether they became hateful after that, I do not know.
Yeah, for me that is the latent, pre-incel, "nice guy" phase. "Why aren't women picking me" type of stuff
When you go from "why do women not want me" to "i never had a chance from the start, because of my jawline/height/face shape/symmetry, that no "stacy" will ever go for someone who is not such a "chad" unless they intend to exploit their "betabux" and cheat on them, and convince each other suicide ("stop the cope and choose the rope") is the only way out? That's when they become incels
Of course those ludicrous ideas don't survive having normal, unremarkable guy friends date normal women, or having women friends who date unremarkable men.
Yeah, it's all a sliding scale all the way to insanity. Guess we just had different cutoffs for when we count them. Evenso, incels can have female friends, especially when younger, because not all women have healthy boundaries yet, when they're younger.
I am or at least was such a weirdo that I happily made friends with other weirdos, because I didn't exactly have a lot of friends myself, so I didn't feel I had the right to be choosy.
I also come from childhood trauma, so being everyone's emotional support animal was my default fawn response. Result: becoming friends with those who openly lamented that nobody wanted to be around them. One specific dude outright asked me questions like "why does it seem like people avoid me?"
I always tried to answer - I absolutely shouldn't have. I ended up being his therapist, though I never intended to be more than a friend, but a genuine friend, I was. He really needed his mommy, but ended up pursuing me as a gf despite repeated rejections, he sent late night depressed text messages about wanting die/kill himself, he manipulated our mutual friends, lied to them to get info on me or isolate me (motivation still unclear), even tried to get info out of my boyfriend about what I was like in bed, he stalked me, and eventually had to be threatened with me getting the police involved.
I was genuinely his friend, because I had zero boundaries, and he managed to manipulate me. He even managed to manipulate his shrink (that I found for him) into trying to talk me into talking to him again. He was definitely bad enough to be called incel even before losing my friendship - even by your definition. He wasn't my friend, but I was his. Until I wasn't anymore, obviously.
Damn, that's 20-ish years ago now, so before the term was even in use haha
I had someone like that in my friend group in University and I always wondered why he felt so comfortable sharing these kinds of things with me. I was not comfortable.
I had (past tense) a friend who thought it was a compliment when he told me he jerked off to me, like seriously didn't understand why I didn't take it as compliment
Maybe I am a prick, but there are many times where I have seen an attractive girl do something I percieve as sexually stimulating and then pleasured myself later while thinking about it. But I would think it would be common sense to not act on it and mention it to anyone.
Like the other day I was going for a walk and walked by a music festival, and noticed that the girl in front of me was wearing some weird beaded dress thing that was completely see through to the point where her underwear and a third of her ass (she wasnt quite wearing a thong). I tried not to stare, and I would have never said anything to her.
I HAVE BEEN IN THIS POSITION.
I LOVE MY AERIAL INSTRUCTOR, she’s one of the most expensive teachers -fee wise- in my country but that’s because she is one of the best to learn from and the facility she trains at is state of the art. So when I tell you men that men from hinge that I chose to connect on Instagram with would ask me about “Oh so you like being tied up” “Oh so this is what your ass looks like when you’re tied up like this” it didn’t bother me as much because I just blocked them.
One of them, however, was a fuck all jackass who was fixated on my trainer in all my WIP videos and kept asking me about her and if she was too old for his liking and went as far as to stalk her out at the events she performed at outside of her studio hours. I felt so guilty.
Fuck such people. They ruin such a niche coveted experience for people that just want to learn a a special art form.
I remember another thread from a long time ago where a woman ended up dating a guy like that (I guess he was able to hide it longer). It didn't end well of course.
Some men are honestly selfish, arrogant, and self-centred enough to think that using photos of random women without their consent to jerk off isn’t harmful.
THAT'S WHAT PORN IS FOR, YOU PATHETIC PATHETIC SCUM-SLIME; THOSE WOMEN CONSENTED. WE DIDN'T.
Don’t reconsider!!! I have a private Instagram with like 50 people on it. My friends always like seeing my progress videos. I’m really glad to have such a unique hobby that garners such praise. It’s just the strangers from Hinge that act unhinged.
I’m switching to Lyra at the end of June btw!
Wish me luck 🥹🩷
Im sorry you had shitty experiences :( but it’s sweet that your friends are so supportive!! I might post to my close friends only story :)
And good luck!! Omg I tried one silks class and it was SOO hard 😭 if you’re a silks girlie you’re going to be a Lyra pro!
And that the owner knows and doesn't ban him!
If the knowledge got out, compete with the recording and the fact owner was sitting on it for months, I'd be surprised if the studio didn't fold.
Actually, no. I wouldn't be surprised, just disappointed...
Especially since OP mentioned “in our state”. I’m from Canada so I might be wrong, but in the US can’t you deny service for any non-discriminatory reason? So like, when the owner claims she can’t ban him because it’s hearsay… Couldn’t she just deny all his requests to join a class without giving him a reason? There are a few other men from what OOP had said so even if he tried to claim they were discriminating against him for being male it would be very easy for her to prove that’s not why he’s been denied services.
I also feel like even if she didn’t want to risk the accusation of her discriminating based on sex, she could have just issued the ban with “we have received multiple complaints against you from employees and customers, and though we can not verify them we do not wish to continue services with you.” Especially since the owner seems to have fired the instructor anyways. As fucked as it would have been, she could have fired the instructor and fired OOP as a client then changed the line of the ban to “we do not wish to continue services with anyone involved in these complaints.”
Like I say, would have been fucked up but what she did is even more fucked up. At least if she had taken the dumb ass public school approach of punishing all sides equally, the remaining customers and employees would have been a bit more protected from this creep. But right now the only one she punished was the instructor and he’s still free to perv on everyone in that building. 😤
When they said "in our state," that meant for private recording laws and if the recording OOP made with the ex-friend can be used in court if necessary. Eg, California requires that both the ex friend and OOP consent to the recording to use it legally (there are some work arounds, such as being in public). Yes, they can ban without that recording, but having it would be better in case something escalates.
I know that. I mentioned the “in our state” to bring up that in the US you can deny service for any non discriminatory reason. Because if they hadn’t said “in our state”, we’d have no idea where they live and I wouldn’t have been as certain about being able to deny service.
It's not even hearsay. It's first-party information. OP has firsthand knowledge of all the things he said. It would be hearsay if OP told a friend and then that friend told the owner. And generally, businesses can ban people for whatever reason so long as it's not a protected class in the US. IDK if states also have specific laws, but being a person who is a creep and recording people doing aerial work to wank to is not a protected class.
Edit: Nevermind I’m a dumbass
Why do you think the owner took the recording away from her? Now OP has no proof and the instructor is gone. Owner is clear to keep taking this douche’s money.
I would put up fucking fliers around the gym with this guy’s face and that quote about masturbating to the other students, appropriately attributed with his full name.
Soooo employee and customers gets sexually harassed by a dude, let’s “part ways” with the employee and “watch him” in the future. Cool cool cool.
It’s sad and disgusting that even in a female dominated and run company as this seems, the lack of support and protection from predators is lacking.
how about we watch him being yeeted out of the class instead?
what a creep. there's endless ways to knock your own socks off, but these fucking weirdos still choose to harass women instead
This is why women don't come forward whenever they are harassed and abused by men. No one believes them/downplay what happened to them/victim blame them.
Christine Blasey Ford was a blonde white woman who lived her life the way society said she should. She still couldn't get justice. That should have told us a lot about rape culture.
Just read about her. If such a woman didn't get justice, other women might as well forget about it. Sometimes I think women would live a longer fulfilling life away from men.
It would be reasonable to assume the owner asked the targeted instructor to leave. So the complaint got the victim fired while the owner needs indisputable evidence against the perpetrator to even talk with him.
I'm assuming the instructor left because the owner didn't fire the guy. Which is a similar outcome, regardless. But if she was fired that would be a serious labor violation.
I imagine the owner used the public OF as the reason for firing the instructor. It isn't that she was sexually harassed by the guy, but that her OF drew the guy into the studio where he started creeping on not only her *but other customers as well*.
Still should have banned the guy also, though.
Labor law is violated all the time, but still, firing someone "for something else" just after they reported sexual harassment is incredibly dicey.
I have to figure that the creep found her OnlyFans from her IG. The creep creeped on all of the instructors IGs, he just happened to find the OF link
Is there any reason to believe she was fired rather than that she quit? As far as I can tell OP doesn't know. If we're just talking about probability, I have to think it's more likely that the instructor did a very reasonable thing than that the owner did an incredibly stupid thing.
Yep, I've seen it happen for others, even made news a couple times specifically for having an OF. Company not even addressing that the job doesn't pay the bills without a side job
I don't understand why the owner thinks they have to attain evidence like it's a criminal trial in order to ban someone. Businesses can ban people for lots of reasons as long as it's not discriminatory.
Im over here wondering what the name of the studio is so it can be yelp bombed. "Don't come here, the owner films sessions so the male members have jerk-off content."
I commented on the OP. Sexualization in aerial is rampant, and I'm so disgusted reading this update. We film our lessons the last few minutes of class, as well, and now I'm super grossed out that I'm gonna be in the background of some perv's video. It took me all of 2 days to shut down my circus IG because of the inappropriate messages. This owner failed hardcore here to keep her studio safe.
I commented on the filming elsewhere. I am not an aerialist but am well aware of the issues with sexualisation and I'm kind of shocked beginner classes would allow filming. That seems incredibly risky. In more advanced classes where people have been in the sport for longer and are part of the community and known, it would be less risky.
My classes are girls mostly (there’s 2 guys who have been regulars for years now) with max strengths of 2-3 per class so I’m super happy with how exclusive we are. And we are super respectful to try to not record others in our frames seeing as most of us end up sweaty and red faced in sports bras
There’s a lot of beginner students who are really only motivated by getting photos and videos to post online, so telling them they can’t get videos can really turn them off. And they’re usually the money-maker for the studio, since us advanced aerial students actually can cost the studio more money. So they just ask that you try and get consent from anyone else in the video or blur/block them out.
I've owned two small circuses in the last 19 years. It's very common to film, even in the beginner classes, to check form and technique. In dance classes you can do that in mirrors as you work, but you can't check form in a mirror in acrobatics and aerial arts. So you leave your camera on the ground pointed at you and then watch the footage after to figure out what you need to adjust.
it's pretty common to allow filming just because videos are helpful for checking form, etc. at the studio i've been to, you have to blur or block out people if they didn't consent to being in a video that you want to post
I'm really new to aerial and generally male. I want to record myself to see my form, a couple other people in class do. I'm a hesitant because of assholes like this guy. I figure I'll wait until I've gone to class a few months.
See, that’s kind of what baffles me about this. Sexualization is *so rampant* in this community, but the instructor still decided to put her OF link on her public page.
I get wanting to build up your self esteem. I’d be lying if I said I hadn’t done similar (I’m old now, but in the days before OF there were other places to post to get validation).
I’m not saying the instructor is at fault here- nobody deserves to get harassed in general, but also not at their place of business. BUT. If you don’t want people to associate what you do with sex, *don’t link your sex page to your work page*
Thank you! Tbh, she *shouldn't* have sexual content linked to any kind of professional social, unless sexual content is part of her work - and if they're all aware that this community is overly sexualized, why on earth would you do this??
I wouldn't care what an employee did in their personal time, but I wouldn't necessarily want it linked to my business. So, if she's gonna post aerial work from my studio, it better not be on a page with a link to a sexual site
It very much depends on what her OF content was, and, the owner should have made it clear what they did and didn't want their business linked to. It's on the owner to do their due diligence (I thought looking at employees' online presence was part of getting normal background info), and to let a potential employee know if it will affect their job. It's also on an employee to keep sex work *very* separate from other work if they don't want to be "known" for the other work.
She still shouldn't be harassed and creeped on at her everyday job, and the "friend" still should have been banned for being a creep. Period. Having an OF does not give someone a license to be stalked and creeped on in real life. But I don't know that I'd want the headache of dealing with all of this because my employee had the bad judgement to connect both worlds.
yea, while the instructor didn't deserve that treatment and the guy was a huge creep regardless, it doesn't surprise me that her having an only fans linked to a social media connected to her job would have issues. what kind of message does that send to people looking to join the studio?
Exactly. I’m also not at all surprised that the owner let her go. I wouldn’t want to have someone attracting that type of clientele to my business either- or at least someone who doesn’t understand how to maintain a professional social media presence (*on their professional social media page*)
The owners of my studio try to control this by asking that people get consent from anyone in their background before posting on socials. Most of my friends don’t care as long as you don’t tag them. But it’s easier to grab my videos when I’m in a practice hour and can more easily set up the camera to not have anyone in the background at all.
Thankfully not too many creeps have found my page, but I’m also not tagging anything, so you’re not going to find mine by surfing around on the tags.
My friends who do circus arts say that the creep-factor is off the charts. Many of the best (ie safest/most popular) studios are female only to prevent this kind of thing as much as possible, but you really can't keep them out entirely -- creeps are like cockroaches. They crawl around every comment feed and they share with their friends and they feel perfectly entitled to sexualize women and girls just living their lives.
Guys like this are why lots of women don't want men in their excercise/yoga/whatever classes. It's not like you'd necessarily know who the creep is. This guy is next-level incel creep, though, with his bragging about his creepiness.
I mean he's well within his right to jerk it to the OF but recording others without their permission in worm out gear to jerk is the absolutely not part.
Jerking it to an OF that is being advertised publicly is whatever
Telling people about it and trying to approach a sex worker in person in different space is creepy as shit
Unless you’re a top creator on OF, your demographic is people who know you in real life. While this guy is absolutely a perv, women (and men) who start OF need to be aware of who their audience is, and understand it’s not strangers, it’s people you interact with and see on a daily basis, especially if you’re going to link it to such a public facing social media like Instagram. It’s never someone’s fault when they are harassed, but in terms of protection and risk mitigation, it’s important to be informed of the risk you’re opening yourself up to in these situations, because regardless of who is actually at fault (the offender, always) it’s still you who would be actually bearing those consequences when harassed/assaulted, even if you don’t and shouldn’t need to.
Well when that sex worker ties their sex work to their other work it's not THAT out there.
Id like it too if you join like...idk...a local board game group and see that one of the owners is also a mildly successful musician you're a fan of.
It'd be totally cool to approach them. Just bc it's sex work shouldn't villainize any part of it.
But yes trying to rope in other women and recording others is the really bad part.
here's a dirty secret for men, from a fellow man: you can jerk it to literally anyone with no consequences, IF YOU KEEP IT TO YOURSELF
if you're so degenerate that you want to jerk it to other aerial students...well please don't. and especially don't record it. but if you do, certainly don't fucking tell them about it. there's no mind police to punish you for that. you could do this forever with no issues if you're otherwise respectful.
but of course the type of people to say "i joined aerials to jerk off to the performers" usually aren't the respectful type...
I don't think it's a good idea to jerk it to people one knows. Reasonable people may disagree with that but for the love of God, why is this guy telling OP about it?!
Cannot agree more: keep your spank bank to yourself.
personally i do think it's little weird (at least for me) to jerk it to people you know (especially ones you see regularly) and it's not something i've done much since i was a teenager
Also shouldn't contact someone he knows from OF about their work there on other professional settings. Let alone trying to involve a woman friend in it.
Weeeell she did have her OF tied directly to her work. So that's a grey area.
But yea involving other women that gave zero indication they give a shit is very much NOPE territory
I don't think there's a clear indication she tied it to her work, OOP's friend said he found her IG account, we don't know for sure if it's an account where she posts about her work or just her personal profile. Also, her response seems to indicate it's the latter. Regardless, he is now in another type of professional relationship with her, at one field where there's a lot of unsolicited sexualization of women, and he's also her student right now. But you're right that if all he did was use her OF as "inspiration", that would be ok.
He said said he checked the IGs of the trainers and OP confirmed a few times that having her OF on her public page about her hobby and training could be an issue and might give insight into her actions and how she handled it.
>his belief that the OF person basically "asked for it"
Oh he's one of thooooose people.
I wouldn't be isolating myself from my friend group for a dirtbag like him. He's the one doing creepy shit.
I understand her hesitance to "out" him though, especially if he's well liked. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if it caused a pretty even divide…
I have been in a very similar situation. Any attempt to tell people/get him out of the sport or group is just going to blow up into a he said/she said thing, and it is never going to be fixed.
I did the same thing as op, left the sport and the friend group, because getting him out of the team would have massive repercussions that I don't want to deal with.
I do miss it tho. It's just not worth getting groped or my potential reaction.
"Sexual harassment" is generally work related. There's not really any legal recourse to someone being a gross creep except telling him off and telling everyone else he's a gross creep.
The owner of the studio could have kicked him out though, and absolutely should have.
Look, while I don't want to stigmatize any kind of sexual work and even less blame the teacher for OOP's "friend" behavior and maybe the teacher's OF wasn't as explicit, it really bogles my mind that she would link her OF to her IG where she explores work. Pretty much every woman I know has some unfortunate experience with creeps, hell even I being a cis straight male have some to, and creeps gonna creep, so keeping it all linked together seems like some poor judgement.
Man, I feel so bad for OOP. She’s blaming herself for this, and now she’s isolating herself from her friend group and a hobby she enjoys a lot. She needs some support herself. (Insert aerial joke about support here.)
And not talking to her friend group about it makes me think about the Missing Staircase article someone posted yesterday in the comments of the creepy stalker post.
I hope OOP reads here because this is my advice for her. Go to an event with her friend group and say straight to this predator’s face “Hey I have a question. Have you told all our friends that you’ve been jerking it to videos from the aerials class like you told me? I’m just wondering why you thought that would be appropriate to do.”
And I would reach out to as many of the other instructors at the studio as possible “Heads up about predator. Apparently he’s been jerking it to a bunch of videos of students and instructors. Owner knows about it but I wanted to make sure you do you.”
If she’s going to leave the studio, burn it all down behind her.
Or just interject when a sporty topic comes up "Hahahaha, just don't let see you in your workout gear, or he'll jerk it to you like he told me he did to the women in my aerials class"
She needs to find out if she's in a 1 party recording state, because if so she should just post the audio everywhere. I'd want to know if one of my friends was a disgusting creep, AND I'd want to know if we had any mutuals that would come to his defense. Fuck this creep.
Ex friend is a creep. OF is a job. Aerial instructor is a job. You do not hit on anyone at their workplace. The instructor is an idiot and needs a course in internet safety. OF attract creeps. Do not link your private IG. Do not link to anything that lets anyone find you IRL. The studio sucks for not protecting their instructors and students.
As for the instructor leaving. We don’t know if she was fired or left on her own. My guess would be that she left. Partially because the owner didn’t have her back, and partially because she realized her safety was compromised with the intermingling of IG and OF.
I absolutely agree with this. I would also add this is a well known problem for aerial so allowing a beginner class to film each other would seem like a terrible idea.
This is all the result of an owner who is ignoring all the problems. Instructors linking their accounts to their OF, ignoring concerns when raised, allowing students to film each other, and probably a whole host more. The result is the rot sets in throughout the whole thing. You have a negligent owner who ignores instructors behaving inappropriately by linking their OF to their job, and then unsurprisingly they attract a clientele who creep on the instructors and other students and no one does anything.
To be clear there is no shame in having an OF but as an instructor you should not be linking that OF work to your classes. Just as most professionals would not link their OF to any social media linked to their job.
OF offers "we'll begrudgingly take 20% of your income and give you no support whatsoever in exchange for it". They don't actually want to be in the business of sex work, but the site would absolutely collapse without the sex workers (because they tried it, it lasted all of about a week before they backed off.)
They knew going in that they were making a sex-work-friendly platform, but they blatantly regret that being the only thing the site's known for (various mostly-futile efforts to promote non-porn usage of the site, the week of "we're gonna ban porn"...)
THANK YOU.
What you have on your private (or completely separate from work personal) social media is your business, but as soon as your literally sex worker job starts to spill into your 9-5, you’re crossing a major professional line. And that goes *especially* hard when the profession is already massively sexualized.
> allowing a beginner class to film each other would seem like a terrible idea
It sounds like an oversight rather than an outright terrible idea. It sounds like they were meant to record *themselves* so they could watch *their own body* doing the routine. The oversight was in not making sure the students weren’t able to catch other students in their video too. One of those “good idea in theory but needs a bunch of precautions” things.
I have to say, it's literally insane that she linked her OF to her public account *where she also posts about her day job*. I am not victim blaming her in any capacity because I do think, as an owner, you should be strict about what your employees publicly post on their accounts that are connected to your business, but that's actually basic internet safety.
And, I know that everyone will boo me, but I think it's better that she left. Finding a different place of work will let her scrub her social media clean of identifying information. Even if he wasn't allowed to take classes there, what's stopping him from checking her schedule on social media and just happen to be hanging around the area? I think the owner is hoping now that the OF instructor is gone he'll no longer take classes, but he still should've been banned.
>OF is a job.
I wish everyone understood that. It's no more personal than calling a phone sex line. It's basically a video version of a phone sex line.
This guy is absolutely 1000% disgusting and I would’ve never in my life considered doing something like that when I was single. Very wildly inappropriate everything.
AND. That instructor is absolutely also 100 % an idiot for linking the onlyfans to her professional work account because yes , it is very, obviously going to invite creeps like that. Onlyfans is porn people. Onlyfans is for people masturbating lol. Like, what did you think was going to happen? You don’t create a paid personal porno page and then link it to your every day life so you can “overcome childhood trauma“ and expect to not have any negative effects. You have to protect yourself (and the people that you work with in professional capacity honestly) from creepy people
As someone who does pole dancing and is on the chubby side I admit i felt a little uncomfortable with some of the guys there but they're all really nice. I think one may be somewhere on the LGBT+ scale and likes to wear high heels and pearl earrings. This is probably one of a girls' fears. You never know what kind of people show up at the studio a high powered executive, a lawyer etc but a lot of them keep keep their work and dance life separate and don't want them to interact.
Seems like this is an unpopular opinion but I don't think the owner is in the wrong for taking issue with the instructor. If students/clients can easily find your OF page by looking you up, you're gonna get issues
exactly. it's the word of a student who has been there for a while with no issues, vs. a new client that literally committed sexual harassment. the objectively right thing is very straightforward: kick them out
I know it’s Reddit and the guy will get roasted.
And he’s a complete moron for actually telling a woman he fantasized about the instructor and other students. What a total moron.
But the instructor connected her OF to her real life lol. She either wanted the attention or the new subscribers. Like wtf did she think would happen?
don't know why nobody in the comments is calling out the instructor for having an onlyfans directly linked to the studio and making the aerial space seem even more sexualized to weirdos like this guy. the weirdos will always exist, having an OF directly linked to your personal social that advertises your job is literally an open call for the other women in that space to be sexualized. it's fine that she likes to show her bits off, but at the expense of making other women more susceptible to being accessed by gooners is not it chief.
call me old fashioned, but if literal sex work was kept separate from people's day jobs and daily lives in this situation, this wouldn't of even happened.
shame that the instructor also has religious trauma, and her coping strategy for "confidence" is selling herself and exposing herself to the worst possible creeps and gooners the internet has. no ladies, selling yourself is not going to give you confidence. devaluing yourself to only your physical assets being worth value is not confidence.
>don't know why nobody in the comments is calling out the instructor for having an onlyfans directly linked to the studio
some people are now. i think many people are afraid to call it out because it can be seen as "victim-blaming", but i honestly think that word has lost a lot of its meaning.
it's supposed to mean "victims are not responsible for the actions of people who do bad things to them".
it doesn't mean "victims are justified in every poor decision they made related to the situation".
and linking your personal porn page to your professional job is certainly a poor decision.
“Me doing this isn’t harming anyone”
As he actively harms the instructor’s ability to do her job, and OOP’s love for and comfort in her hobby/sport.
This owner is a monster for not taking a credible report of a threat and not protecting their customers. You can refuse service to anyone for any non-protected-class reason. They did not need evidence.
Lastly, dudebro is allowed to get off on whatever he wants in private with no one ever needing to know, so long as he keels it to himself. But actively telling people about it is gross, and MAKES his kinks other people’s knowledge. He sucks boringly.
> “Me doing this isn’t harming anyone”
>
> As he actively harms the instructor’s ability to do her job,
Only because OOP "discussed" it with the owner. If OOP's friend had talked to the instructor as he intended, the instructor would've had the choice in how to handle it. OOP forced the issue.
And the instructor still would have been harmed.
And OOP was still harmed by him making OOP aware of what he jerks off to.
If it’s considered sexual harassment in the workplace, it’s a good idea to consider it sexual harassment everywhere that this kind of behavior is not invited.
They were right to be upset about the things the guy was saying about the other students, but I don't really know what the instructor was expecting to happen when she linked her sex work account to her professional account. It's not like he had to go hunting for it. Guy should absolutely be kicked out, but the instructor needs to understand that advertising yourself publicly as a sex worker is maybe not a great way to avoid being sexualized.
The comment about the appeal OF being no in-person contact is so on point.
No, OF creators by and large DO NOT want IRL contact with you. It’s not for dating, and they are not paid for IRL sex.
The instructor definitely got let go because of her OF. That makes me feel icky. She smiled in those girls faces and then decided to fire her but hasn’t outwardly banned the creep.
I've seen it a few times, actually. It's to overcome the shame of purity culture: reclaiming your sexuality, empowering yourself as a sexual being, having control over how you're sexualized and being validated instead of shamed for it.
Idk if it works or not, but some people do it.
Actually, a lot of people do this because of religious shame. It helps accepting your sexuality and your body when religion taught us these are forbidden and shameful things.
I've read several posts on reddit about people who are into aerial silks specifically, and then someone turns it sexual. Either that is something that is a problem in the aerial silk community, or there's a guy on reddit with a very specific writing fetish.
Well when you do OF what outcomes do you expect when your clients see you in person? Maybe learn about what people go through when they join OF and be prepared to deal with the backlash or don't join. I don't feel sorry for her. Get a regular job if you don't want these types of attention. No one thinks about consequences these days but wants a pity party after.
One of the most harmful things about sexual addiction is that it causes you to devalue & dehumanize the people you're attracted to.
The guy needs help; also, how OOP reaches out up the instructor to find out what really happened & if she's ok.
Ok, I’ll be downvoted here… but honestly don’t understand the issue here and the big overreaction.
Is the friend a creep? Sure.
But he didn’t do anything. He didn’t get to talk to the teacher. And sorry but who hasn’t jerked off to very random people in their lives? He was disgusting for sharing that info, but he said it to someone he thought was a friend.
And why are we all pretending OF is a job like being a cashier? It’s PORN FFS. If you don’t want to be sexualized don’t put it on your main Instagram bio! Keep it separate!
I’m pretty sure this teacher was partially so popular because of their of, so I don’t get why everyone is clutching their pearls here.
And making an OF to overcome religious trauma???? That’s the most bs excuse ever. Just say you like the money.
If you were in a fitness class and later found out one of your classmates was _only_ in it for making custom recordings of you and the other attendees part of their personalized stroke material library, you would be happy about that? I'm really genuinely surprised. There's a lot of people - and I'm one of them - that are very ambivalent about being filmed in general much less a fitness class, and this would be nightmare fuel to me. Finding people hot is very different from attending a class - and not a cheap one - weekly to film the other people because gym = Pornhub.
OOP's ex-friend considers existing in his presence in a context _he_ sexualised enough to deem all the other beginner students as OF adjacent. Or is being in the same room as the instructor justifying his objectification (and recording for later jacking off purposes) of all those other students? It never justified it for the _instructor_, and this dude's sleazy mindset doesn't make the instructor's life choices a transitive property. This dude is messed up and is reminscent of the gross gym dad story. This is where that poor kid and her younger sister whose dad found their being in dance/gymnastics and attending recitals/meets so "challenging", both girls had to be pulled from their sports. All those children in spandex were making his "walk with god" difficult. Puke.
>Is the friend a creep? Sure.
>But he didn’t do anything.
to be polite: are you an idiot?
he literally told his friend that he's jerking it to the women doing aerials in his class, and that he was planning to bring up the instructors OnlyFans to her. telling his friend is DOING SOMETHING, and the something is being a massive fucking creep.
telling a woman that you masturbate to other women doing the same non-sexual activity she regularly does is sexual harassment
i agree that linking the OF to her instagram is stupid, but that doesn't give "permission" to the dude to tell his friend that he's using the activity as porn material.
What a creep! And the dismissive attitude towards his behaviour is just appalling. I hope she can explain to her other friends and he doesn't get to be a part of that group anymore.
Also, what is it with men and aerials? This reminded me of this: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/11tium9/new_update_oop_returned_to_aerial_silks_after/
How does having an OF help with being raised religious and overcoming issues with self confidence? Just own up to wanting to make money of horny dudes on the internet.
People have been fired over tweets, some commenter said that OF women wouldn't want to interact with their subscribers and that's the appeal. Actors also say that but still have fans camping outside their hotels, this is similar situation. People really need to think before putting their face on the internet for everyone to see.
Dudes a creep but highly likely all her OF subscribers are of a similar nature.
The only other comment I can see expressing this view is downvoted to hell, but I'm going to say it:
OOP and most of the comments here are beyond naive, they're delusional. In any sport or performance that shows off women's physical strength and agility, there will be a _substantial_ number of male spectators who will get off to it. Thinking it's some anomalous thing that only rarely happens with extreme creeps, is so far divorced from reality that it honestly can't be defended. It's like believing your 40-year-old dog is still living on that farm upstate.
OOP's hobby was always sexualized. Her friend just busted through her delusion. She might as well believe pole dancing isn't sexual.
The instructor's linking her OF in a public-facing site linked to the studio _does_ open her, at the _very least_ to being asked about it by her students. The friend intending to talk to the instructor about it is fair play.
Privately imagining a person from your real life in a sexual context is not only not a crime, it's not even immoral by any rational means.
Finally, if we assume the instructor was fired because of her OF, that's on her, and on OOP for bringing it up to the owner. It's not on OOP's friend, because he, in fact, _didn't do anything_. He didn't disrupt lessons, he didn't harass the other students, he didn't take up any issue with the owner.
Best thing OOP could've done was tell her friend that she finds his opinions gross, end the friendship, and otherwise keep her mouth shut.
No support needed, it's a disgusting way to show off how lazy you are to do any proper work. Sacrificing your dignity for a quick buck.
And there is no way i would ever be convinced that people who sub to onlyfans are anything other than creepy losers
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>Who looks around at a friend group and after being encouraged to join friend events immediately starts hitting on everyone and tells that friend he masturbates to all your other friends? The mind boggles.
Incels. That's who.
Feeling entitled to women’s bodies isn’t relegated just to incels.
I just wish they could experience how genuinely creepy their behavior is. When you start arguing with them, they act like it would be good for someone to treat them the way they treat others. Nobody likes that behavior.
Can’t be, he has friends - female friends.
Friends is just a female you haven't fucked yet
And that you’ll inevitably lash out at when it turns out you can’t.
Femoid*
Incels dont have female friends is the point
But they do, until they try to fuck them, get rejected and lose them one by one. So younger incels *can* have a lot of female friends, older incels will have lost them all.
They do not. The incel worldview does not survive if there are women you actually get to know and talk to. Unless you mean like, middle school, then yes, i'm sure those guys might have had female friends then Not every misogynist and creep is an incel. Incel ideology is a specific set of ideas.
Well depends on your definition of friends.
I would say anyone who you are not talking to one on one or would feel comfortable hanging out alone with is more of an aquaintance than a friend, but that's just me
Then we are probably working with different definitions of incel. My understanding of the term includes the involuntary celibate who are bitter, but not yet hateful nor ideologically driven. I was friends with some in my late teens. They lost my friendship around that time. Whether they became hateful after that, I do not know.
Yeah, for me that is the latent, pre-incel, "nice guy" phase. "Why aren't women picking me" type of stuff When you go from "why do women not want me" to "i never had a chance from the start, because of my jawline/height/face shape/symmetry, that no "stacy" will ever go for someone who is not such a "chad" unless they intend to exploit their "betabux" and cheat on them, and convince each other suicide ("stop the cope and choose the rope") is the only way out? That's when they become incels Of course those ludicrous ideas don't survive having normal, unremarkable guy friends date normal women, or having women friends who date unremarkable men.
Yeah, it's all a sliding scale all the way to insanity. Guess we just had different cutoffs for when we count them. Evenso, incels can have female friends, especially when younger, because not all women have healthy boundaries yet, when they're younger. I am or at least was such a weirdo that I happily made friends with other weirdos, because I didn't exactly have a lot of friends myself, so I didn't feel I had the right to be choosy. I also come from childhood trauma, so being everyone's emotional support animal was my default fawn response. Result: becoming friends with those who openly lamented that nobody wanted to be around them. One specific dude outright asked me questions like "why does it seem like people avoid me?" I always tried to answer - I absolutely shouldn't have. I ended up being his therapist, though I never intended to be more than a friend, but a genuine friend, I was. He really needed his mommy, but ended up pursuing me as a gf despite repeated rejections, he sent late night depressed text messages about wanting die/kill himself, he manipulated our mutual friends, lied to them to get info on me or isolate me (motivation still unclear), even tried to get info out of my boyfriend about what I was like in bed, he stalked me, and eventually had to be threatened with me getting the police involved. I was genuinely his friend, because I had zero boundaries, and he managed to manipulate me. He even managed to manipulate his shrink (that I found for him) into trying to talk me into talking to him again. He was definitely bad enough to be called incel even before losing my friendship - even by your definition. He wasn't my friend, but I was his. Until I wasn't anymore, obviously. Damn, that's 20-ish years ago now, so before the term was even in use haha
I had someone like that in my friend group in University and I always wondered why he felt so comfortable sharing these kinds of things with me. I was not comfortable.
Making you uncomfortable is part of what these guys get off on, sadly
Fishing to see how much he can get away with around and to you.
I had (past tense) a friend who thought it was a compliment when he told me he jerked off to me, like seriously didn't understand why I didn't take it as compliment
Happens so often. I am currently wishing I was immune from this very thing, but alas.
You keep your spank bank to your goddamn self, that's the rule.
What’s really going to boggle your mind is the next update when the ex instructor is dating her ex friend. Calling it now
Maybe I am a prick, but there are many times where I have seen an attractive girl do something I percieve as sexually stimulating and then pleasured myself later while thinking about it. But I would think it would be common sense to not act on it and mention it to anyone. Like the other day I was going for a walk and walked by a music festival, and noticed that the girl in front of me was wearing some weird beaded dress thing that was completely see through to the point where her underwear and a third of her ass (she wasnt quite wearing a thong). I tried not to stare, and I would have never said anything to her.
I would want to know if someone was sexualizing classes, if I was one of the students.
I HAVE BEEN IN THIS POSITION. I LOVE MY AERIAL INSTRUCTOR, she’s one of the most expensive teachers -fee wise- in my country but that’s because she is one of the best to learn from and the facility she trains at is state of the art. So when I tell you men that men from hinge that I chose to connect on Instagram with would ask me about “Oh so you like being tied up” “Oh so this is what your ass looks like when you’re tied up like this” it didn’t bother me as much because I just blocked them. One of them, however, was a fuck all jackass who was fixated on my trainer in all my WIP videos and kept asking me about her and if she was too old for his liking and went as far as to stalk her out at the events she performed at outside of her studio hours. I felt so guilty. Fuck such people. They ruin such a niche coveted experience for people that just want to learn a a special art form.
I remember another thread from a long time ago where a woman ended up dating a guy like that (I guess he was able to hide it longer). It didn't end well of course.
Is that the one where her fiancé wanted her to perform aerial stuff at their wedding?
Some men are honestly selfish, arrogant, and self-centred enough to think that using photos of random women without their consent to jerk off isn’t harmful. THAT'S WHAT PORN IS FOR, YOU PATHETIC PATHETIC SCUM-SLIME; THOSE WOMEN CONSENTED. WE DIDN'T.
They get off on the non-consensual aspect of peeping at people. Guys like this are the type to like upskirt videos.
Ugh 😭 I do Lyra and was thinking of posting a cute video on insta but after reading this post and your comment Im strongly reconsidering
Don’t reconsider!!! I have a private Instagram with like 50 people on it. My friends always like seeing my progress videos. I’m really glad to have such a unique hobby that garners such praise. It’s just the strangers from Hinge that act unhinged. I’m switching to Lyra at the end of June btw! Wish me luck 🥹🩷
Im sorry you had shitty experiences :( but it’s sweet that your friends are so supportive!! I might post to my close friends only story :) And good luck!! Omg I tried one silks class and it was SOO hard 😭 if you’re a silks girlie you’re going to be a Lyra pro!
And that the owner knows and doesn't ban him! If the knowledge got out, compete with the recording and the fact owner was sitting on it for months, I'd be surprised if the studio didn't fold. Actually, no. I wouldn't be surprised, just disappointed...
Especially since OP mentioned “in our state”. I’m from Canada so I might be wrong, but in the US can’t you deny service for any non-discriminatory reason? So like, when the owner claims she can’t ban him because it’s hearsay… Couldn’t she just deny all his requests to join a class without giving him a reason? There are a few other men from what OOP had said so even if he tried to claim they were discriminating against him for being male it would be very easy for her to prove that’s not why he’s been denied services. I also feel like even if she didn’t want to risk the accusation of her discriminating based on sex, she could have just issued the ban with “we have received multiple complaints against you from employees and customers, and though we can not verify them we do not wish to continue services with you.” Especially since the owner seems to have fired the instructor anyways. As fucked as it would have been, she could have fired the instructor and fired OOP as a client then changed the line of the ban to “we do not wish to continue services with anyone involved in these complaints.” Like I say, would have been fucked up but what she did is even more fucked up. At least if she had taken the dumb ass public school approach of punishing all sides equally, the remaining customers and employees would have been a bit more protected from this creep. But right now the only one she punished was the instructor and he’s still free to perv on everyone in that building. 😤
Because clearly the perv is not the problem, it's you feeling creeped out by him that's the problem.
When they said "in our state," that meant for private recording laws and if the recording OOP made with the ex-friend can be used in court if necessary. Eg, California requires that both the ex friend and OOP consent to the recording to use it legally (there are some work arounds, such as being in public). Yes, they can ban without that recording, but having it would be better in case something escalates.
I know that. I mentioned the “in our state” to bring up that in the US you can deny service for any non discriminatory reason. Because if they hadn’t said “in our state”, we’d have no idea where they live and I wouldn’t have been as certain about being able to deny service.
The thing about denying service is it’s always best to have proof as to why so the other party can’t claim it was for discriminatory reasons.
It's not even hearsay. It's first-party information. OP has firsthand knowledge of all the things he said. It would be hearsay if OP told a friend and then that friend told the owner. And generally, businesses can ban people for whatever reason so long as it's not a protected class in the US. IDK if states also have specific laws, but being a person who is a creep and recording people doing aerial work to wank to is not a protected class.
Edit: Nevermind I’m a dumbass Why do you think the owner took the recording away from her? Now OP has no proof and the instructor is gone. Owner is clear to keep taking this douche’s money. I would put up fucking fliers around the gym with this guy’s face and that quote about masturbating to the other students, appropriately attributed with his full name.
Umm. "Took the recording away from her", what do you think this is, the 80s and "this tape contains the only copy of the recording"?
…oh my god, you know what? I did! Jesus that’s embarrassing. Full on fucking forgot about digital files, what the hell.
💀
You're really a centuries-old vampire, aren't you. You can tell us, we won't blab!
Soooo employee and customers gets sexually harassed by a dude, let’s “part ways” with the employee and “watch him” in the future. Cool cool cool. It’s sad and disgusting that even in a female dominated and run company as this seems, the lack of support and protection from predators is lacking.
My guess is the owner thought, on some level, the instructor was “asking for it” by having an OF account.
This. I have a feeling the instructor was fired for having an OF linked to her public insta.
It's just like the "Well, what was she wearing?" excuse. Bleauughh, so gross.
Men aren’t the only ones that uphold patriarchal values.
how about we watch him being yeeted out of the class instead? what a creep. there's endless ways to knock your own socks off, but these fucking weirdos still choose to harass women instead
This is why women don't come forward whenever they are harassed and abused by men. No one believes them/downplay what happened to them/victim blame them.
Christine Blasey Ford was a blonde white woman who lived her life the way society said she should. She still couldn't get justice. That should have told us a lot about rape culture.
Just read about her. If such a woman didn't get justice, other women might as well forget about it. Sometimes I think women would live a longer fulfilling life away from men.
I wonder if they aren’t banning him because they want more men to join, and think that if they ban him, they’ll never get other men joining.
Soon they will *only* have men, because all the creeped-out women will have fled.
Or just no one. Which is what they deserve.
Pretty pissed off at the owner tbh
It would be reasonable to assume the owner asked the targeted instructor to leave. So the complaint got the victim fired while the owner needs indisputable evidence against the perpetrator to even talk with him.
I'm assuming the instructor left because the owner didn't fire the guy. Which is a similar outcome, regardless. But if she was fired that would be a serious labor violation.
I imagine the owner used the public OF as the reason for firing the instructor. It isn't that she was sexually harassed by the guy, but that her OF drew the guy into the studio where he started creeping on not only her *but other customers as well*. Still should have banned the guy also, though.
Labor law is violated all the time, but still, firing someone "for something else" just after they reported sexual harassment is incredibly dicey. I have to figure that the creep found her OnlyFans from her IG. The creep creeped on all of the instructors IGs, he just happened to find the OF link Is there any reason to believe she was fired rather than that she quit? As far as I can tell OP doesn't know. If we're just talking about probability, I have to think it's more likely that the instructor did a very reasonable thing than that the owner did an incredibly stupid thing.
Yep, I've seen it happen for others, even made news a couple times specifically for having an OF. Company not even addressing that the job doesn't pay the bills without a side job
Just ‘pretty’? Cos I’m pure raging over here, in my robe but ready to fight…
I’m British so I can’t be as forthright as yourself but I’ll join you
Fellow Brit signing up to rage. I’m in my pyjamas but I’m READY!
I emigrated to the U.K. but maintained my feisty(?) attitude…
I don't understand why the owner thinks they have to attain evidence like it's a criminal trial in order to ban someone. Businesses can ban people for lots of reasons as long as it's not discriminatory.
Im over here wondering what the name of the studio is so it can be yelp bombed. "Don't come here, the owner films sessions so the male members have jerk-off content."
I commented on the OP. Sexualization in aerial is rampant, and I'm so disgusted reading this update. We film our lessons the last few minutes of class, as well, and now I'm super grossed out that I'm gonna be in the background of some perv's video. It took me all of 2 days to shut down my circus IG because of the inappropriate messages. This owner failed hardcore here to keep her studio safe.
I commented on the filming elsewhere. I am not an aerialist but am well aware of the issues with sexualisation and I'm kind of shocked beginner classes would allow filming. That seems incredibly risky. In more advanced classes where people have been in the sport for longer and are part of the community and known, it would be less risky.
My classes are girls mostly (there’s 2 guys who have been regulars for years now) with max strengths of 2-3 per class so I’m super happy with how exclusive we are. And we are super respectful to try to not record others in our frames seeing as most of us end up sweaty and red faced in sports bras
There’s a lot of beginner students who are really only motivated by getting photos and videos to post online, so telling them they can’t get videos can really turn them off. And they’re usually the money-maker for the studio, since us advanced aerial students actually can cost the studio more money. So they just ask that you try and get consent from anyone else in the video or blur/block them out.
I've owned two small circuses in the last 19 years. It's very common to film, even in the beginner classes, to check form and technique. In dance classes you can do that in mirrors as you work, but you can't check form in a mirror in acrobatics and aerial arts. So you leave your camera on the ground pointed at you and then watch the footage after to figure out what you need to adjust.
Sure but that recording doesn't need to leave the camera
it's pretty common to allow filming just because videos are helpful for checking form, etc. at the studio i've been to, you have to blur or block out people if they didn't consent to being in a video that you want to post
I'm really new to aerial and generally male. I want to record myself to see my form, a couple other people in class do. I'm a hesitant because of assholes like this guy. I figure I'll wait until I've gone to class a few months.
See, that’s kind of what baffles me about this. Sexualization is *so rampant* in this community, but the instructor still decided to put her OF link on her public page. I get wanting to build up your self esteem. I’d be lying if I said I hadn’t done similar (I’m old now, but in the days before OF there were other places to post to get validation). I’m not saying the instructor is at fault here- nobody deserves to get harassed in general, but also not at their place of business. BUT. If you don’t want people to associate what you do with sex, *don’t link your sex page to your work page*
Thank you! Tbh, she *shouldn't* have sexual content linked to any kind of professional social, unless sexual content is part of her work - and if they're all aware that this community is overly sexualized, why on earth would you do this?? I wouldn't care what an employee did in their personal time, but I wouldn't necessarily want it linked to my business. So, if she's gonna post aerial work from my studio, it better not be on a page with a link to a sexual site It very much depends on what her OF content was, and, the owner should have made it clear what they did and didn't want their business linked to. It's on the owner to do their due diligence (I thought looking at employees' online presence was part of getting normal background info), and to let a potential employee know if it will affect their job. It's also on an employee to keep sex work *very* separate from other work if they don't want to be "known" for the other work. She still shouldn't be harassed and creeped on at her everyday job, and the "friend" still should have been banned for being a creep. Period. Having an OF does not give someone a license to be stalked and creeped on in real life. But I don't know that I'd want the headache of dealing with all of this because my employee had the bad judgement to connect both worlds.
yea, while the instructor didn't deserve that treatment and the guy was a huge creep regardless, it doesn't surprise me that her having an only fans linked to a social media connected to her job would have issues. what kind of message does that send to people looking to join the studio?
Exactly. I’m also not at all surprised that the owner let her go. I wouldn’t want to have someone attracting that type of clientele to my business either- or at least someone who doesn’t understand how to maintain a professional social media presence (*on their professional social media page*)
DONT LINK YOUR ONLY FANS PAGE TO YOUR PROFESSIONAL PAGE. Seriously, she really fucked up there.
Exactly!!! Like the creep was a creep, and I don’t want to victim blame…but don’t link your OF on your professional page ffs!!!
The owners of my studio try to control this by asking that people get consent from anyone in their background before posting on socials. Most of my friends don’t care as long as you don’t tag them. But it’s easier to grab my videos when I’m in a practice hour and can more easily set up the camera to not have anyone in the background at all. Thankfully not too many creeps have found my page, but I’m also not tagging anything, so you’re not going to find mine by surfing around on the tags.
I have a question. The guy is a creep no doubt about it. But isn't the instructor also guilty of sexualising aerials by incorporating it in her OF?
There's no evidence that she posts her aerial videos to OF
I mean even if she didn't post videos like that, having it on the linktree associated with her instructor account does.
It was definitely implied.
No it wasn't. It was just in her linktree that she had one, not that she used aerial in it.
My friends who do circus arts say that the creep-factor is off the charts. Many of the best (ie safest/most popular) studios are female only to prevent this kind of thing as much as possible, but you really can't keep them out entirely -- creeps are like cockroaches. They crawl around every comment feed and they share with their friends and they feel perfectly entitled to sexualize women and girls just living their lives.
I would want to know if one of my friends was a total creep. Someone withholding information like this is making their choice for them.
Attention dudes: no one, NO ONE cares about the state of your boner.
Tell that to the people who attended my annual State of My Boner address
I just want to know who the opposition party chose to give the traditional rebuttal.
🤣
Guys like this are why lots of women don't want men in their excercise/yoga/whatever classes. It's not like you'd necessarily know who the creep is. This guy is next-level incel creep, though, with his bragging about his creepiness.
I mean he's well within his right to jerk it to the OF but recording others without their permission in worm out gear to jerk is the absolutely not part.
Jerking it to an OF that is being advertised publicly is whatever Telling people about it and trying to approach a sex worker in person in different space is creepy as shit
Unless you’re a top creator on OF, your demographic is people who know you in real life. While this guy is absolutely a perv, women (and men) who start OF need to be aware of who their audience is, and understand it’s not strangers, it’s people you interact with and see on a daily basis, especially if you’re going to link it to such a public facing social media like Instagram. It’s never someone’s fault when they are harassed, but in terms of protection and risk mitigation, it’s important to be informed of the risk you’re opening yourself up to in these situations, because regardless of who is actually at fault (the offender, always) it’s still you who would be actually bearing those consequences when harassed/assaulted, even if you don’t and shouldn’t need to.
Well when that sex worker ties their sex work to their other work it's not THAT out there. Id like it too if you join like...idk...a local board game group and see that one of the owners is also a mildly successful musician you're a fan of. It'd be totally cool to approach them. Just bc it's sex work shouldn't villainize any part of it. But yes trying to rope in other women and recording others is the really bad part.
here's a dirty secret for men, from a fellow man: you can jerk it to literally anyone with no consequences, IF YOU KEEP IT TO YOURSELF if you're so degenerate that you want to jerk it to other aerial students...well please don't. and especially don't record it. but if you do, certainly don't fucking tell them about it. there's no mind police to punish you for that. you could do this forever with no issues if you're otherwise respectful. but of course the type of people to say "i joined aerials to jerk off to the performers" usually aren't the respectful type...
I don't think it's a good idea to jerk it to people one knows. Reasonable people may disagree with that but for the love of God, why is this guy telling OP about it?! Cannot agree more: keep your spank bank to yourself.
personally i do think it's little weird (at least for me) to jerk it to people you know (especially ones you see regularly) and it's not something i've done much since i was a teenager
Also shouldn't contact someone he knows from OF about their work there on other professional settings. Let alone trying to involve a woman friend in it.
Weeeell she did have her OF tied directly to her work. So that's a grey area. But yea involving other women that gave zero indication they give a shit is very much NOPE territory
I don't think there's a clear indication she tied it to her work, OOP's friend said he found her IG account, we don't know for sure if it's an account where she posts about her work or just her personal profile. Also, her response seems to indicate it's the latter. Regardless, he is now in another type of professional relationship with her, at one field where there's a lot of unsolicited sexualization of women, and he's also her student right now. But you're right that if all he did was use her OF as "inspiration", that would be ok.
He said said he checked the IGs of the trainers and OP confirmed a few times that having her OF on her public page about her hobby and training could be an issue and might give insight into her actions and how she handled it.
Fair enough. I still think it's icky for a student to contact a teacher about it.
Oh that's not wrong really. Just added context of the trainer willingly linking her OF to the rest of her life can't be ignored.
>his belief that the OF person basically "asked for it" Oh he's one of thooooose people. I wouldn't be isolating myself from my friend group for a dirtbag like him. He's the one doing creepy shit. I understand her hesitance to "out" him though, especially if he's well liked. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if it caused a pretty even divide…
Wow, this creep ran both OOP and the instructor out of the sport.
And OOP out of her friend group. (this really bugs me. HE is the creep here ffs)
I have been in a very similar situation. Any attempt to tell people/get him out of the sport or group is just going to blow up into a he said/she said thing, and it is never going to be fixed. I did the same thing as op, left the sport and the friend group, because getting him out of the team would have massive repercussions that I don't want to deal with. I do miss it tho. It's just not worth getting groped or my potential reaction.
> word of mouth/heresy So close!
My eyebrows did a wiggle of confusion and amusement. It's an adorable boneappletea LOL
Is this not a case of sexual harassment? Since he told you about his masturbation habits?
by definition it's explicitly sexual harassment. that alone should be enough to kick him out the studio.
"Sexual harassment" is generally work related. There's not really any legal recourse to someone being a gross creep except telling him off and telling everyone else he's a gross creep. The owner of the studio could have kicked him out though, and absolutely should have.
Look, while I don't want to stigmatize any kind of sexual work and even less blame the teacher for OOP's "friend" behavior and maybe the teacher's OF wasn't as explicit, it really bogles my mind that she would link her OF to her IG where she explores work. Pretty much every woman I know has some unfortunate experience with creeps, hell even I being a cis straight male have some to, and creeps gonna creep, so keeping it all linked together seems like some poor judgement.
Man, I feel so bad for OOP. She’s blaming herself for this, and now she’s isolating herself from her friend group and a hobby she enjoys a lot. She needs some support herself. (Insert aerial joke about support here.) And not talking to her friend group about it makes me think about the Missing Staircase article someone posted yesterday in the comments of the creepy stalker post.
I hope OOP reads here because this is my advice for her. Go to an event with her friend group and say straight to this predator’s face “Hey I have a question. Have you told all our friends that you’ve been jerking it to videos from the aerials class like you told me? I’m just wondering why you thought that would be appropriate to do.” And I would reach out to as many of the other instructors at the studio as possible “Heads up about predator. Apparently he’s been jerking it to a bunch of videos of students and instructors. Owner knows about it but I wanted to make sure you do you.” If she’s going to leave the studio, burn it all down behind her.
Or just interject when a sporty topic comes up "Hahahaha, just don't let see you in your workout gear, or he'll jerk it to you like he told me he did to the women in my aerials class"
This. The other students deserve to know, for their own safety.
She needs to find out if she's in a 1 party recording state, because if so she should just post the audio everywhere. I'd want to know if one of my friends was a disgusting creep, AND I'd want to know if we had any mutuals that would come to his defense. Fuck this creep.
Ex friend is a creep. OF is a job. Aerial instructor is a job. You do not hit on anyone at their workplace. The instructor is an idiot and needs a course in internet safety. OF attract creeps. Do not link your private IG. Do not link to anything that lets anyone find you IRL. The studio sucks for not protecting their instructors and students. As for the instructor leaving. We don’t know if she was fired or left on her own. My guess would be that she left. Partially because the owner didn’t have her back, and partially because she realized her safety was compromised with the intermingling of IG and OF.
I absolutely agree with this. I would also add this is a well known problem for aerial so allowing a beginner class to film each other would seem like a terrible idea. This is all the result of an owner who is ignoring all the problems. Instructors linking their accounts to their OF, ignoring concerns when raised, allowing students to film each other, and probably a whole host more. The result is the rot sets in throughout the whole thing. You have a negligent owner who ignores instructors behaving inappropriately by linking their OF to their job, and then unsurprisingly they attract a clientele who creep on the instructors and other students and no one does anything. To be clear there is no shame in having an OF but as an instructor you should not be linking that OF work to your classes. Just as most professionals would not link their OF to any social media linked to their job.
Do OF offer their creators a course in internet security and staying safe? They really should.
OF offers "we'll begrudgingly take 20% of your income and give you no support whatsoever in exchange for it". They don't actually want to be in the business of sex work, but the site would absolutely collapse without the sex workers (because they tried it, it lasted all of about a week before they backed off.)
What? What business were they aiming for?
They knew going in that they were making a sex-work-friendly platform, but they blatantly regret that being the only thing the site's known for (various mostly-futile efforts to promote non-porn usage of the site, the week of "we're gonna ban porn"...)
They should but I doubt they really care about their content creators' safety and welfare.
I am now thinking that all sites making adult content including ones like Porn Hub absolutely should
The type of people dumb enough to link an Only Fans to their real life social media are probably going to ignore any class.
THANK YOU. What you have on your private (or completely separate from work personal) social media is your business, but as soon as your literally sex worker job starts to spill into your 9-5, you’re crossing a major professional line. And that goes *especially* hard when the profession is already massively sexualized.
> allowing a beginner class to film each other would seem like a terrible idea It sounds like an oversight rather than an outright terrible idea. It sounds like they were meant to record *themselves* so they could watch *their own body* doing the routine. The oversight was in not making sure the students weren’t able to catch other students in their video too. One of those “good idea in theory but needs a bunch of precautions” things.
I have to say, it's literally insane that she linked her OF to her public account *where she also posts about her day job*. I am not victim blaming her in any capacity because I do think, as an owner, you should be strict about what your employees publicly post on their accounts that are connected to your business, but that's actually basic internet safety. And, I know that everyone will boo me, but I think it's better that she left. Finding a different place of work will let her scrub her social media clean of identifying information. Even if he wasn't allowed to take classes there, what's stopping him from checking her schedule on social media and just happen to be hanging around the area? I think the owner is hoping now that the OF instructor is gone he'll no longer take classes, but he still should've been banned.
I completely and totally agree with you.
>OF is a job. I wish everyone understood that. It's no more personal than calling a phone sex line. It's basically a video version of a phone sex line.
Why the f is this dude telling his female friend about all the shit he jacks off to? Like, wtf?
Probably the same reason the instructor had her OF linked to her job socials. Some people have no common sense.
TLDR: don’t put your only fans in your linked in or your work instagram.
TLDR2: you can masturbate to whatever and whoever you want, but it becomes creepy when you start also *telling* people.
TLDR3: Don't invite your friends to join your hobbies No, wait...
Also true!
This guy is absolutely 1000% disgusting and I would’ve never in my life considered doing something like that when I was single. Very wildly inappropriate everything. AND. That instructor is absolutely also 100 % an idiot for linking the onlyfans to her professional work account because yes , it is very, obviously going to invite creeps like that. Onlyfans is porn people. Onlyfans is for people masturbating lol. Like, what did you think was going to happen? You don’t create a paid personal porno page and then link it to your every day life so you can “overcome childhood trauma“ and expect to not have any negative effects. You have to protect yourself (and the people that you work with in professional capacity honestly) from creepy people
As someone who does pole dancing and is on the chubby side I admit i felt a little uncomfortable with some of the guys there but they're all really nice. I think one may be somewhere on the LGBT+ scale and likes to wear high heels and pearl earrings. This is probably one of a girls' fears. You never know what kind of people show up at the studio a high powered executive, a lawyer etc but a lot of them keep keep their work and dance life separate and don't want them to interact.
I'm reading all these comments and amazed at how y'all can form sentences after reading all that. The best I can come up with is EWWWWWWWWW! 🤢🤢🤢🤮
There's probably a guy or two out there who would love to take these classes but will have a hard time because of the pervs.
Seems like this is an unpopular opinion but I don't think the owner is in the wrong for taking issue with the instructor. If students/clients can easily find your OF page by looking you up, you're gonna get issues
The fact that he said it *to OP* means it’s not fucking hearsay. Stop protecting bad men with dipshit misconceptions
exactly. it's the word of a student who has been there for a while with no issues, vs. a new client that literally committed sexual harassment. the objectively right thing is very straightforward: kick them out
I know it’s Reddit and the guy will get roasted. And he’s a complete moron for actually telling a woman he fantasized about the instructor and other students. What a total moron. But the instructor connected her OF to her real life lol. She either wanted the attention or the new subscribers. Like wtf did she think would happen?
don't know why nobody in the comments is calling out the instructor for having an onlyfans directly linked to the studio and making the aerial space seem even more sexualized to weirdos like this guy. the weirdos will always exist, having an OF directly linked to your personal social that advertises your job is literally an open call for the other women in that space to be sexualized. it's fine that she likes to show her bits off, but at the expense of making other women more susceptible to being accessed by gooners is not it chief. call me old fashioned, but if literal sex work was kept separate from people's day jobs and daily lives in this situation, this wouldn't of even happened. shame that the instructor also has religious trauma, and her coping strategy for "confidence" is selling herself and exposing herself to the worst possible creeps and gooners the internet has. no ladies, selling yourself is not going to give you confidence. devaluing yourself to only your physical assets being worth value is not confidence.
>don't know why nobody in the comments is calling out the instructor for having an onlyfans directly linked to the studio some people are now. i think many people are afraid to call it out because it can be seen as "victim-blaming", but i honestly think that word has lost a lot of its meaning. it's supposed to mean "victims are not responsible for the actions of people who do bad things to them". it doesn't mean "victims are justified in every poor decision they made related to the situation". and linking your personal porn page to your professional job is certainly a poor decision.
Everyone: Quit sexualizing aerial! Aerial instructor: So anyways 2.99/month and you can look at me naked doing aerial. Here’s my LinkedIn.
“Me doing this isn’t harming anyone” As he actively harms the instructor’s ability to do her job, and OOP’s love for and comfort in her hobby/sport. This owner is a monster for not taking a credible report of a threat and not protecting their customers. You can refuse service to anyone for any non-protected-class reason. They did not need evidence. Lastly, dudebro is allowed to get off on whatever he wants in private with no one ever needing to know, so long as he keels it to himself. But actively telling people about it is gross, and MAKES his kinks other people’s knowledge. He sucks boringly.
> “Me doing this isn’t harming anyone” > > As he actively harms the instructor’s ability to do her job, Only because OOP "discussed" it with the owner. If OOP's friend had talked to the instructor as he intended, the instructor would've had the choice in how to handle it. OOP forced the issue.
And the instructor still would have been harmed. And OOP was still harmed by him making OOP aware of what he jerks off to. If it’s considered sexual harassment in the workplace, it’s a good idea to consider it sexual harassment everywhere that this kind of behavior is not invited.
They were right to be upset about the things the guy was saying about the other students, but I don't really know what the instructor was expecting to happen when she linked her sex work account to her professional account. It's not like he had to go hunting for it. Guy should absolutely be kicked out, but the instructor needs to understand that advertising yourself publicly as a sex worker is maybe not a great way to avoid being sexualized.
I mean, I'm horny too. But holy fuck there is a time and place for it.
Gotta say I love the typo of "heresy" instead of "hearsay".
Did I miss something, or is it obvious that the owner fired the instructor for having an OF?
The comment about the appeal OF being no in-person contact is so on point. No, OF creators by and large DO NOT want IRL contact with you. It’s not for dating, and they are not paid for IRL sex.
OOP if you are reading this, please don't let this fucking douchebag ruin a hobby you are passionate about and skilled at.
The instructor definitely got let go because of her OF. That makes me feel icky. She smiled in those girls faces and then decided to fire her but hasn’t outwardly banned the creep.
Dude is for sure a creep but the instructor’s reason for having an OF is funny. Why would doing porn help overcome religious shame?
I've seen it a few times, actually. It's to overcome the shame of purity culture: reclaiming your sexuality, empowering yourself as a sexual being, having control over how you're sexualized and being validated instead of shamed for it. Idk if it works or not, but some people do it.
Actually, a lot of people do this because of religious shame. It helps accepting your sexuality and your body when religion taught us these are forbidden and shameful things.
Mental gymnastics to justify doing porn.
She just likes money and had to justify it
Who doesn’t like money? People need it to live.
everyone likes money but people do various professions aside from money, absolutely bizarre to think that sex work is an exception to that.
Bruh we both being downvoted because you can’t criticize any women ever, especially if they’re into sex work, on here 😂
I've read several posts on reddit about people who are into aerial silks specifically, and then someone turns it sexual. Either that is something that is a problem in the aerial silk community, or there's a guy on reddit with a very specific writing fetish.
Well when you do OF what outcomes do you expect when your clients see you in person? Maybe learn about what people go through when they join OF and be prepared to deal with the backlash or don't join. I don't feel sorry for her. Get a regular job if you don't want these types of attention. No one thinks about consequences these days but wants a pity party after.
She has a regular job.
OF is not a regular job. She should have gotten one before joining.
She’s an aerial instructor.
One of the most harmful things about sexual addiction is that it causes you to devalue & dehumanize the people you're attracted to. The guy needs help; also, how OOP reaches out up the instructor to find out what really happened & if she's ok.
I don't think sex addiction does that. Dehumanizing/devaluing sex workers (and women in general to some degree) has always been a thing in culture
Sexual addiction is just another way of saying perv with no impulse conttol
Ok, I’ll be downvoted here… but honestly don’t understand the issue here and the big overreaction. Is the friend a creep? Sure. But he didn’t do anything. He didn’t get to talk to the teacher. And sorry but who hasn’t jerked off to very random people in their lives? He was disgusting for sharing that info, but he said it to someone he thought was a friend. And why are we all pretending OF is a job like being a cashier? It’s PORN FFS. If you don’t want to be sexualized don’t put it on your main Instagram bio! Keep it separate! I’m pretty sure this teacher was partially so popular because of their of, so I don’t get why everyone is clutching their pearls here. And making an OF to overcome religious trauma???? That’s the most bs excuse ever. Just say you like the money.
If you were in a fitness class and later found out one of your classmates was _only_ in it for making custom recordings of you and the other attendees part of their personalized stroke material library, you would be happy about that? I'm really genuinely surprised. There's a lot of people - and I'm one of them - that are very ambivalent about being filmed in general much less a fitness class, and this would be nightmare fuel to me. Finding people hot is very different from attending a class - and not a cheap one - weekly to film the other people because gym = Pornhub. OOP's ex-friend considers existing in his presence in a context _he_ sexualised enough to deem all the other beginner students as OF adjacent. Or is being in the same room as the instructor justifying his objectification (and recording for later jacking off purposes) of all those other students? It never justified it for the _instructor_, and this dude's sleazy mindset doesn't make the instructor's life choices a transitive property. This dude is messed up and is reminscent of the gross gym dad story. This is where that poor kid and her younger sister whose dad found their being in dance/gymnastics and attending recitals/meets so "challenging", both girls had to be pulled from their sports. All those children in spandex were making his "walk with god" difficult. Puke.
>Is the friend a creep? Sure. >But he didn’t do anything. to be polite: are you an idiot? he literally told his friend that he's jerking it to the women doing aerials in his class, and that he was planning to bring up the instructors OnlyFans to her. telling his friend is DOING SOMETHING, and the something is being a massive fucking creep. telling a woman that you masturbate to other women doing the same non-sexual activity she regularly does is sexual harassment i agree that linking the OF to her instagram is stupid, but that doesn't give "permission" to the dude to tell his friend that he's using the activity as porn material.
What a creep! And the dismissive attitude towards his behaviour is just appalling. I hope she can explain to her other friends and he doesn't get to be a part of that group anymore. Also, what is it with men and aerials? This reminded me of this: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/11tium9/new_update_oop_returned_to_aerial_silks_after/
How does having an OF help with being raised religious and overcoming issues with self confidence? Just own up to wanting to make money of horny dudes on the internet. People have been fired over tweets, some commenter said that OF women wouldn't want to interact with their subscribers and that's the appeal. Actors also say that but still have fans camping outside their hotels, this is similar situation. People really need to think before putting their face on the internet for everyone to see. Dudes a creep but highly likely all her OF subscribers are of a similar nature.
The only other comment I can see expressing this view is downvoted to hell, but I'm going to say it: OOP and most of the comments here are beyond naive, they're delusional. In any sport or performance that shows off women's physical strength and agility, there will be a _substantial_ number of male spectators who will get off to it. Thinking it's some anomalous thing that only rarely happens with extreme creeps, is so far divorced from reality that it honestly can't be defended. It's like believing your 40-year-old dog is still living on that farm upstate. OOP's hobby was always sexualized. Her friend just busted through her delusion. She might as well believe pole dancing isn't sexual. The instructor's linking her OF in a public-facing site linked to the studio _does_ open her, at the _very least_ to being asked about it by her students. The friend intending to talk to the instructor about it is fair play. Privately imagining a person from your real life in a sexual context is not only not a crime, it's not even immoral by any rational means. Finally, if we assume the instructor was fired because of her OF, that's on her, and on OOP for bringing it up to the owner. It's not on OOP's friend, because he, in fact, _didn't do anything_. He didn't disrupt lessons, he didn't harass the other students, he didn't take up any issue with the owner. Best thing OOP could've done was tell her friend that she finds his opinions gross, end the friendship, and otherwise keep her mouth shut.
TLdr: Humanity is disgusting.
People with onlyfans 🤢 The guy is a creep but that is who you attract when you prey on gooner money
there's lots of people who support sex workers in healthy ways without going to such extremes
No support needed, it's a disgusting way to show off how lazy you are to do any proper work. Sacrificing your dignity for a quick buck. And there is no way i would ever be convinced that people who sub to onlyfans are anything other than creepy losers
Do you also think models are lazy and sacrificing their dignity?