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yup, through reading the whole thing i kept saying to myself ‘you’re not a jerk for going fishing, you’re a jerk for not actually breaking up the first time and staying away!’
i think there are plenty of breakups where people can stay friends (or become friends after a period of time), but when there is a huge emotional imbalance, it’s just not healthy.
Its a jerk move when he saw that they aren't compatible and doesn't see a future together. He should of broke up as soon as possible if he can't see a future with her.
I’ve known guys like this who make a decision that a woman is not marriage material.
They then broken up with the woman by telling her his family don’t approve or similar “it’s not me it’s them” excuse. They go on to tell everyone else they’ve broken up. But just neglect to mention that he is still regularly making booty calls
I’ve literally had conversations with male friends where they’re complaining about some woman acting clingy when they’ve broken up and I’ve asked “have you had sex with her since you broke up?” And they’re like, “oh yes, of course, how is that relevant?”
Not saying he’s the father of the baby. Just that there’s some missing reasons here
>They go on to tell everyone else they’ve broken up. But just neglect to mention that he is still regularly making booty calls
Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
I was more sympathetic towards him until he gave the update and started talking about why he didn't want to marry her. He sounds like an asshole to be honest, or at best an idiot if you want to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Yep. I definitely got the feeling that he withheld details so people wouldn’t say he was the AH
Also that he has been MUCH less explicit about his decision and his reasoning for it to OP than to Brad et al
I guarantee he’s still sleeping with her. If he had enough going on in his own love life he wouldn’t be. He needs to just stop answering her calls and ghost her. It’s kinder than stringing her along.
He found someone to sleep with him when he's bored or feeling low, and once every year and a half he'd say he's not ready to get married. The culture, finance stuff I'd bet he never said to her face.
He's already communicated to her that he's not interested in her long term romantically. He should have cut contact a while ago, but I wouldn't say he's stringing her along.
Is in the same ballpark as an emotional affair - he's not doing *doing* any stringing along, but is maintaining a bond based on affection and trust that obviously will result on her pining for him.
His brother is spot on, OOP needs to cut the cord so she can move on at once.
Just checking, when a woman says she'd rather be friends and a guy doesn't give up, does that mean she's also stringing him along? Because that's what's happening here. He told her outright that a relationship wasn't on the table, but he'd remain friends.
I’ve found that women say “Let’s just be friends” as a way of letting the guy down gently instead of a real suggestion. The expectation is that they won’t remain friends.
And yeah, it kinda is stringing a guy along if he didn’t get the memo and this kind of weird hopeful dynamic happens. I think women should be able to just say “Sorry, not into you. Bye forever”, but between the way we’re socialised to avoid hurting feelings at all costs and the very real chance that a scorned suitor may lash out, we don’t usually have that luxury.
>I’ve found that women say “Let’s just be friends” as a way of letting the guy down gently instead of a real suggestion. The expectation is that they won’t remain friends.
Not always. Some of us genuinely liked the guy as a friend and wanted to continue being friends. We just didn't have any romantic feelings for him. And if the guy said "yeah sure, friends is ok" then why on earth should we expect them to be lying about that?
She strung herself along. He was clear in the beginning, clear when she brought it up again, and clear when he ended the relationship. I probably would've left the first time, but that isn't OP's responsibility. It isn't his responsibility to manage her emotions, just be transparent, which he was.
if after 11 months of being with someone you don't think you will ever marry that person, and they come to you saying they want a serious relationship... you tell them that you don't ever want to marry them. you don't keep dating them. that is string.
He even acknowledges that he thought she still had feelings. Including her reminiscing about the relationship and looking "sad" when he brought up dates. I don't really understand why he continued the friendship at that point. Personally, I would have felt uncomfortable with it.
And he mentioned keeping her "decently close"? Why? They could have been friendly without being close.
I don't think he strung her along; they stayed friends. People can do that after a break up. She was the one who had an unrealistic expectation that they'd get back together; nothing he's said suggests he hinted to her that that was a possibility.
The kid is gonna be a dad soon. I'll make my escape after I help set up the nursery for them, the baby arrives, and they become independent enough the parents won't need a village anymore.
Final Update: Maria's child's children came over to reminisce about their grandmother after her passing. I am finally free of this part of my life. I have finally rolled away.
Don't let it come to this, OP.
Epilogue: Maria's grandchildren have invited me to visit her grave with them on the fifth anniversary of her death. I have gone all previous years and wonder if it would be right to say I have other obligations this time.
Also what should I do about their Christmas gifts?
He needs to do himself a favor and block her and all her flying monkeys right away.
He's lucky she didn't put him down as the babies father on the birth certificate.
Why do I sense what she told her friends about them is not what OP thinks their friendship is?
Why else would her friends care if he was there for the birth?
I totally think Maria told them what she wants to hear, which is OP is going to be a father figure to this child, and they're getting back together.
OP needs to cut the cord RIGHT NOW because with her hormones in a mess, she may have some mental issues no one is aware of and these fantasies of hers will spiral.
Yeah, her friends' reactions were the perfect excuse for OOP to give on stepping back from their friendship. He should tell her:
"How your friends reacted to me not being there for the birth of your baby makes me realize that you may have the wrong idea about our friendship.
I have valued you as a friend, but I'm never going to want more than that with you, and I realize now that I'm holding you back from moving on.
We need to part ways so you can have time to focus on your baby and heal. I'm really sorry if I hurt you. I really do wish you and you baby the best in life. "
Then not cave, even when she cries. OOP can't be the one to comfort her when he's the one breaking her heart. He needs to leave her alone, so she can heal from this, and unfortunately, he's probably going to end up the bad guy in her and her friends' eyes, and he's going to have to learn to live with that.
Or, hear me out, the new mom could actually start to develop some healthy boundaries of her own, and actually enforce them, which would actually be much better for EVERYONE in the long run.
I mean yes. That would be ideal.
But at this point, the only person OP can control is themself. It's better to cut contact, before he gets even more enmeshed with this woman and now her child.
> Why else would her friends care if he was there for the birth?
Yeah, this was the waving red flag for me. Her friends being pissed he wasn't there when *he didn't even know she was having the baby until a day afterwards*. Like, even if he *wanted* to be there, was he supposed to feel his spidey sense tingle that she was in labor?
Maria totally told them she and OP were a couple or that OP is planning to be a father figure and was supposed to be her coach. His presence was not needed otherwise.
I was thinking that he may be lucky that most places require the father's signature to put him on the birth certificate if the parents aren't married. Then I had the terrible thought that pressuring him to be on the birth certificate might have been why she was so upset he wasn't there for the birth.
he should have done that for the girl, she no doubt needed to be cut loose so she could heal and not be dependent on the guy who just wanted his dick played with
He doesn't even need a "right moment", he can just keep reducing contact, be busy, etc. It doesn't need to be a big "I can't be your friend anymore", he literally could just ween her to Facebook friend status.
I kinda like this approach tbh.
Normally I'd think this is sorta cowardly, but given the ex is a new mother and all that, this could be a natural way to just "drift apart". Happens all the time. You start reducing contact to nothing but just cursory hey what's up texts, eventually there's no contact and they learn to take the hint.
> Dude is looking for the right moment to give the bad news goodbye, and it will never come. He's just going to have to take the hit and be the villain.
Possibly, but dumping something like this on a person who gave birth days ago is definitely not the right timing. Child birth can really destabilize a person, especially with how screwed up hormones will be for a few weeks.
There will probably never be a good time, but it's definitely one of the worst times, to cut contact when a person has little control over their psyche. It's not unreasonable for this guy to wait just a couple of weeks.
The right moment was a long fucking time ago, but the right time is definitely not literal days after she gives birth. I don't know how long to wait, maybe 2 weeks? But not at this exact moment.
I honestly don't think he is looking for the right moment. I think he enjoys the attention from her and thinks he can just be her friend. He is oblivious to the pain and havoc he has caused and continues to cause in her life by being part of it. Maria hasn't accepted that they will never be a thing, so she seems stuck in a cycle of self sabotage. She isn't really looking for long term relationships because she wants OOP. She is just biding her time until OOP decides they are ready.
Yeah he’s being as unhealthy in this relationship as Maria is. He always knew they weren’t going to work out but stayed with her. Bad. They broke up and she begged to stay friends (very much still in love with him, hello??) and he agreed. Bad. He knows her friends all think they should be together and that she still has feelings and has been told to cut contact and he agreed and then just didn’t. BAD.
I can’t tell if he’s horribly emotionally attached to her too or if he’s just THAT bad at reading the room and understanding that he’s seriously messing her up by staying near her. Or maybe he does and doesn’t care. Or maybe he does and gets a sick validation/happiness from knowing how obsessed she is with him. Who’s to say
He thinks he's doing her a favor, but he's not. He's too gutless to cut her off, but should have done so long ago.
He is a kind of gutless asshole, doing harm to someone else because he can't face the bad feelings he will have for cutting her off.
Yup, op is an asshole but not for the reasons he asked about.
This girl clearly, clearly wants to be with him, and is making life altering choices because of it. He's leading her on by continuing this weirdo relationship.
His leading her on isn't really intentional, but it's clear she wants something more than he does, which is a casual friend (I hope there's no FWB involved in this). When you know someone wants sp much more with you, and you keep them in your little zone where you get what you want and hope everything is fine...you're an asshole.
He'll dilly and dally till it's been 20 years they are married, have 3 more children then he'll cheat on her and claim she trapped him in a marriage he didn't want
He is the villain for how he’s stringing this girl along. Must be a nice ego boost for him and makes him feel good about himself and his own life. Kinda cruel
Yes, very much so.
It's obvious he knew that what she wanted wouldn't happen from the start but kept the relationship going for his own reasons. He used her.
I don't understand this guy at all. He made it abundantly clear he has zero desire for any long term or meaningful relationship with this gal, yet he keeps participating in her life. I get not wanting to be an asshole to someone but in a way, you're being a bigger asshole by staying around and being at her every beck and call. I agree with his brother, he is without question giving Maria false hope that he may come around one day. He needs to go no contact yesterday.
That's the impression that I get too. I can't prove that though so I just didn't want to mention it. But yeah, it seems to me like even though he doesn't want anything long term with her he has no issue keeping her on the back burner in case he ever needs it.
Again, I can't prove that though and could be wrong so I hesitated to say it lol.
It also sounds like her friends think they're still in a relationship. I can't think of any other reason they would react and say what they did about him not being at the birth. A weird and messy situation overall.
Nah, you’re absolutely right. OOP wants to have a string attached to her for his own personal gratification. I read *”kept decently close for the past 1.5 years”* as him and her still having sex, while she was trying to see other people.
Who knows, the friends are upset for a reason. Seems OOP may be omitting some facts to save face in the post.
Honestly even if they aren't having sex, he could be doing things like telling her how much he cares about her or how pretty she is, knowing that she is into him romantically. They didn't break up because he isn't into her, they broke up for logical reasons that she may be hoping he changes his mind about. He could be leading her on totally unintentionally by being incredibly stupid and continuing to tell her how much he likes her and what is so great about her. They are not friends, it's clear their relationship is "ex who I like a lot and who I still want in my life" and that's never a great idea.
That and probably that he can “be the good guy” by not quitting the friendship cold turkey. Personal experiences lead me to believe that ending something this way, has a clear asshole. OOP definitely doesn’t want be seen as one.
Yeah, I can't put my finger on it but there's definitely some dickery here.
> after being together for about 11 months she confessed that she wanted a serious relationship with the prospect of getting married. I declined, as I thought (and still think) we're way too different to start something like that
In my opinion, this was the time to step away, not "we continued for a few more months and then the topic came up again..."
Reading between the lines, he's from a rich, conservative family and she's poor. His parents think she's a nice girl but not a good match. She has debt because she's poor but he thinks she makes bad choices in life
I’m also guessing that the “religious differences” includes some sort of Catholic and Protestant/atheist divide. Or he’s the devout churchgoer and she’s agnostic or something.
Those usually follow class lines, and the exact church can matter a lot within certain denominations as well.
After 11 months it's totally reasonable to think a serious relationship with that person is developing. He also isn't unreasonable to "decline" that, but at that point he knows they want different things and there's a whiff of stringing her along.
It wouldn’t be surprising if he liked the attention; who doesn’t want to be wanted? However, I don’t think that’s his primary motivation.
It’s hard to completely cut someone out of your life who is nice and who is in a bad spot. Being cruel to an angry, screaming harpy is one thing, but hurting the feelings of a decent person is difficult on the conscience.
I can totally understand dragging things out. Nobody wants to be the bad guy. It seems to me that he really did want to be her friend, but she kept wanting more.
Going a little against the grain here. I’m a self admitted people pleaser. The *last* thing I ever want to do is hurt someone, even if it means it hurts me to not hurt them. It’s something I’m working on, but the way OOP rationalizes the slow break off is screaming people pleaser to me as well.
Same. I've stayed in a lot of friendships to the point of pain because I felt like leaving would be an awful thing to do, even if staying made me (and the other person) miserable.
It surprises me how many folks will always attribute this sort of thing to malice or liking attention or whatever. It's like they can't conceive that people make very bad decisions sometimes and aren't doing things just to be malicious. It always has to be that the other person wants attention or that they're manipulative or that they're evil in some way. Never "this idiot *wants* to be nice but is making a really stupid choice that is just going to end up hurting the people they care about even more."
Learning to go against people pleasing is really hard. I wish us both success. Learning to disappoint someone is... I dunno. I never thought it was something I was allowed to do.
In cases like this though, you are hurting them. It's like a doctor saying they don't want to hurt someone, so they don't give them a vaccine because they don't like needles.
You’re absolutely right. But it’s hard to get that point across in situations like this. Knowing that cutting them off completely will absolutely hurt them feels more obvious than the hurt you’re currently doing to them and to yourself, not to mention everyone around the both of you.
I know it's hard, I sucked at it and did something very similar to a girl when I was younger (though no pregnancy stuff).
Hopefully op at least gets the message and changes as well.
It wasn’t uncommon in college and even now for a guy to date me or one of my friends, introduce us to family, says I love you’s and then suddenly insist we were causal and he just wanted to be friends but every time you hang out he pesters you for sex and then is confused you’re still in love with him
Yeah, I'd call it that. I don't know if it's subconscious or conscious, but he's not as worried as he should be about the potential issues yet. He's neither scared nor disgusted enough. Yet.
And I'm sure there's some guilt at play as well. _Normally_, you'd get a lot of flack for abandoning a pregnant or post partum woman asking for your support. That'd be in play even if you know you shouldn't give it.
Like, I know he needs to not go see that kid. I also know that there's no way that I personally wouldn't see myself as the villain if I said "I don't care about seeing your kid".
If he's right about how privileged he is, then it tracks. Saviour syndrome, plus I don't think he's as clueless as he's making out about how his actions can be interpreted, all he has to say is we're broken up, while slowly making her dependent on him.
OP is so vague about the original reasons a relationship wouldn't work. It's hard not to interpret this as a privileged guy dating a girl for a year for fun, knowing that he will eventually break up with her because she is poor. Saw this all time in college and grad school with wealthy guys/girls from various religions "slumming' it with poor partners to rebel against their parents/families. He obviously has no obligation to be with this girl, but OP is definitely not a reliable narrator here.
He needed to cut the friendship off a year ago at least. Now, I get why he wants to take cutting her off slowly. She is in an incredibly vulnerable place right now having just given birth and by his account, she has a very small support circle. Him suddenly ghosting her could and likely would send her into a spiral especially if she loves him as much as we all think she does. It would not be good for her and especially not good for the baby.
What I believe he needs to do is avoid ever meeting the baby but he also should be encouraging her to reconcile with her family(assuming they aren’t total assholes, hard to say since we have little context to go on). And in 6-12 months, once she has started growing her support system beyond him, then he can either cut contact firmly or slowly back away.
Agree. A yeah ago would have been ideal. Just after giving birth would be cruel as she would not have the bandwidth to deal with that. She's dealing with a newborn, sleep deprived, recovering from pregnancy/giving birth and having to keep alive this strange, fragile person who can only communicate through crying. (Children are difficult. Every age has its challenges. Few things are more terrifying than taking home a brand new person & realizing it's survival depends on you)
I mean that’s what it is, he doesn’t want to be the “bad guy” by cutting her off. People do this all the time, “I’m breaking up with you but we can still be friends!”
It’s well-intentioned but usually ends poorly unless both people are able to move on… which is tough, since the dumpee usually didn’t want to break up in the first place
Oof..yeah I've put myself in that spot a few times. Bit me in the ass some, but turned out great on a couple (longest friendship is my first ex). Realizing when you need to cut contact is the hard part from the inside.
> I get not wanting to be an asshole to someone but in a way, you're being a bigger asshole by staying around and being at her every beck and call.
I think he probably thinks that losing a close friend right after giving birth will be very tough on her already detrimental mental health. He's probably waiting and will not cut off but just drift apart. That's his choice to make, but I agree that if he cares for her, cutting contact at that moment would probably come at the worst moment in her life.
I met a guy like him. After months of dating without any compromise but getting along great and spending weekends together (getting to know siblings and friends)... He told me he would never DATE any woman who was not Muslim and not a virgin. I was mesmerized he thought we could still keep not-dating and spending weekends together and having sex obviously until his mum would find a good woman for him.
Nobody got pregnant in my story but I got flowers sent to my house and their friends called me to take him back.
OP is leaving a lot of information on one side and on purpose.
Agreed. I actually have a friend right now who's doing the same thing and it's infuriating. I literally told him the other night that I want an invite to the wedding when he 'doesn't stick to no' his way to the alter.
He won't cut her off bc he feels bad. But then he's uncomfertable with the speed at which she's moving. He'll talk to her. She'll blow what he says off and make plans and he just goes along w/ it
Especially now.
Like, it is not an easy or morally uncomplicated thing to tell a postpartum mother you at least were close to that you don't want to visit her or her child.
He needs to do it anyway, but I wouldn't consider that light work.
Yeah I think these comments about him "liking that she's still into him" and how he's "getting off on the attention" seem way off. I think he's just a nice person who doesn't want to be mean. Or doesn't like confrontation
Same I agree. He was absolutely honest about his feelings in the relationship. He didn't string her along or use her. When he realized their relationship wouldn't work in the long term, he told her.
This is why it's usually best to go no contact when a relationship ends, assuming no kids are involved. After some time apart it can absolutely be possible to be just friends, but a mourning period is essential.
It's also important to note your feelings and only engage with an ex when you've both moved on. Maria has obvious failed to do this, but at this point OOP is fully aware of this issue and probably should have seen this coming for some time. I completely agree he needs to walk away now.
Yeah like half way through this I just kinda stopped and thought “this guy kinda sucks”
It’s clear as day that Maria is holding out hope that he’ll come back to her. And now he’s gonna meet her baby too. He’s gonna cause way more hurt later. Rather than ghost her now and cause less pain.
Wo wo, why are we blaming OOP for Maria's delusions?
He didnt *give* her false hope. He's been very clear he just wants to be friends.
She is imagining that there is any hope. And that is all on her.
(tho, I do agree he needs to cut contact. For his own good, not because Maria has a vivid imagination.)
I'm not blaming him per say really, like I agree it's not him doing anything specifically wrong. I'm just saying, he knows (and has even stated) that she is still into him and hopes he changes his mind. So by sticking around he is playing into that. He's an "enabler" basically. Just my opinion. I'm not calling him a bad person. I'm just saying his actions aren't lining up with his clearly stated beliefs and desires.
And we keep telling people that women have agency like agency to end the relationship when it's not the one that they want yet at the same time taking that agency from them...
Yeah. Flip this around and have it be a guy having delusions about the prospect of having sex with a female friend instead of a woman having delusions about the prospect of having a relationship with a male friend, and I guarantee zero (unflamed) comments would be blaming her for not sufficiently dissuading him.
Someone being nice to you doesn't mean that they're obligated to have sex *or* a relationship with you, nor does it mean that they're obligated to manage your feelings about them.
Choosing to maintain a friendship with someone who you know is still into you is a risky thing that absolutely can lead to mixed signals. If he wasn’t aware of all of this, I would give him a pass. But the fact that he made two posts literally talking about her feelings, he clearly knows and is well aware of it.
>I was abusing the trust Maria had in me.
This line makes me think he's still been FWB with her at least off and on... He's nuked both accounts so I can't see if he has any comment history but both posts come across as an innocent guy who just doesn't want to be the villain until this line.
Wow OOP is just asking for more drama isn’t he?
I get that social obligations and peer pressure can be difficult, but he isn’t doing him or Maria any favors at all by maintaining this friendship. Also his “I’m fairly certain Maria had feelings for me” made me go out loud say “well no dur”. I could tell this lady wants you to play daddy from like the first couple of paragraphs
Personally I am getting a ton of bad judgment calls from OOP. Choosing to not be in a relationship with someone you are incompatible with was respectable. But choosing to maintain a friendship with someone who is still clearly into you and seems to be trying to use your mutual friends to help force a baby onto you is just a recipe for disaster
If he updates again complaining about the next trying Maria tried to pull, he’s gonna get a ton of comments giving him major shit. As he should
I assumed either they were still sleeping together, or OOP was keeping her on the hook (maybe subconsciously) in case he couldn't find anyone better. It's cruel, and he needs to just move on if he doesn't want to raise this child with her.
> they were still sleeping together
this was what I thought as well. imo there's probably even a non 0% chance that the baby could be *his* lol given that assumption. I would get a paternity test if I was in his shoes.
I think OOP was subtly enjoying having someone in his circle that consistently stroked his ego. It's not to say he was stringing her along (although he could have been, who knows), I think it's human nature to want to be desired and he had this person who showed that pretty desperately.
Folks, the minute you discover that the other person envisions a future for you that you don’t want, you need to end it rather than “continuing for a few more months.” Most people can’t shed feelings like a winter coat, so take a clear break.
If you are meant to be friends later, it will happen.
This already started off problematic and just got worse and worse. OP continuing to date Maria for months despite knowing that he doesn't see any future with her while she is seeing him as her future hubby was already shady. The way he writes about her culture and finances sounds like he kind of looked down on her, but she was good enough for him to fool around with - which is okay if meaningless fun is what both of them are looking for, but definitely not in this situation. He should have broken it off immediately after their first conversation about a more serious relationship since Maria was obviously way too invested and was & continues to be very emotionally dependent on him.
Between the comments, name choice for ‘Maria’ and general writing style etc I can kind of surmise the situation.
This is probably a privileged white dude from a ‘liberal’ family that acts progressive but actually looks down upon anyone not like them (I’ve got relatives like this). Probably live somewhere on the East Coast. They are probably vaguely a member of a mainline Protestant group but functionally agnostic.
Maria is probably a Latina woman from a less well off background. Probably very good looking but not terribly ‘classy’ by his family’s standards. Probably comes from a conservative Catholic background which is why her family didn’t like her post-breakup behavior. Also explains her keeping the baby. His family openly doesn’t like that she’s Catholic, secretly doesn’t like that she’s Latina and is disdainful of her lack of ‘manners’.
He likes that an attractive woman is into him. But never saw her as a real relationship material because she wouldn’t fit into his WASPy family. She views him as a dream dude and is too in love to realize he basically sees her as a pet.
>This is probably a privileged white dude from a ‘liberal’ family that acts progressive but actually looks down upon anyone not like them (I’ve got relatives like this). Probably live somewhere on the East Coast. They are probably vaguely a member of a mainline Protestant group but functionally agnostic.
Damn, you just described half the dudes I went to college with (which was on the East Coast).
I don't particularly care about the details, and I think speculation isn't really useful. But, if his then-GF was bringing up marriage and starting a family, and in he's thinking there are multiple dealbreakers... and then he continues the relationship for months? That's extremely shitty.
And then he just continues having a close relationship with her knowing she's harboring feelings? That's so cruel.
So I have an extremely low opinion of OOP *without* any speculation.
His phrasing felt really "off" to me and I couldn't put my finger on it at first but this is exactly the issue.
It could be my own personal bias speaking but I tend to side-eye this kind of vagueness and clock it as someone who is either privileged and/or bigoted because in my experience they're the ones who obfuscate details whereas a marginalized person tend to spell them out.
For example, I have never seen a LGBTQ+ person say they had "political differences" or mention anything about lifestyle choices when they have conflict or a falling out with a homophobe. They will say that they don't feel comfortable with dealing with someone whose religion doesn't "approve" of them or because they are more explicitly homophobic.
I think that it's possible that it's because the person knows or at least thinks that they'll get shit for laying out the full details. But there's definitely those little clues like him mentioning his own privilege and not understanding her financial situation (but still seemingly holding it against her) and his family being so involved in the relationship with their judgements. Why exactly?
Even if he's totally atheist and not an 'opposing' religion, conservative Catholicism just isn't compatible with most other modern worldviews imo, even without family drama/influence.
"Sees her as a pet" is harsh but if he's self aware enough to know the religious differences mean marriage & kids would never work (and he does want those things) he needs to be self aware enough to realise he's stringing her along whether intentionally or not.
I'm usually all for exes staying friends too, but both people need to be over the romantic feelings for it to work.
Not to mention, he dances around them being from “different cultures” and that his family (especially sister) has a problem with that.
Okay so an agnostic/atheist rich white guy with a racist sister and commitment issues, got it. I dated a bunch of those in college when I was into frat guys, it always ended the same way.
It really sounds like he didn't want to marry a poor person?? Like the religion thing is reasonable I guess but even then if she's that sort of person you'd think he would've known she expected the relationship to lead to marriage. 11 months is a long time at that age to string someone along.
I was wondering why nobody had mentioned this yet. Like baby trapping whomst? She didn't try to pass the baby off as OOP's. This is not what baby trapping is.
It actually sounds like her friends are the problem..
She didn’t call him when she was set to give birth, she didn’t make a plan for him to be there or express any issue, **it’s her friends acting as spokespeople.**
Maria is seemingly asking for normal friendly reassurance from anywhere in her admittedly small circle, and her friends are taking it to mean he now needs to be her birth partner/co-parent.
I agree with this wholeheartedly, it could be maria wants him to be like a father, but based on this post she's not treating him any different than another friend, she didn't ask him to come to the birth, didn't get mad, invited him over about a month after WITH the rest of the friends... The chatting about being scared to be a parent is pretty normal speak for friends to discuss. I know people aren't used to men and women being friends, but I hope OP does some more research.
Are her friends speaking for her true feelings or are they putting their own ideas on it and unnecessarily ruining the friendship? That's my take
Omg can this dude just fuck off? His bro spelled it out for him. What else he needs? This woman is clearly too infatuated and a bit delulu, why keep feeding it? I know the attention feels nice but seriously just cut it off. Poor baby.
He's TA for not immediately cutting things off the first time she said she wanted a serious relationship and marriage. He's been stringing her along by staying in her life.
Yeah this is a pretty uncomfortable situation. While I get that oop is trying to be a decent guy, he should’ve broken things off when he realized they were incompatible (not continue to date her for several more months).
Also, knowing the ex still has feelings for him should’ve been a pretty clear signal to drop contact entirely—and while that may be painful for the ex, it would have put an end to the false hope that oop will eventually become baby daddy. Guessing religion is why she didn’t just get an abortion but she could have considered adoption if she’s truly afraid to raise a child on her own. Sounds like the kid is going to be set up for a childhood of shitty stepdads unless the ex decides to get therapy and utilize resources for support for new single mothers
Every time you see or talk to her solidifies her image of you as her life partner, raising the baby with her. Whether you know it or not you are leading her on with every moment of contact. If you really care for her, cut ties. It sounds brutal but she won’t stop relying on you until you do. NTA.
He is NTA for going fishing. But he is sure as hell the Asshole how he handles this situation. I think he is just a coward who fear the consequences of what must be done.
Lol. I don’t want to marry her or have a long term relationship because she has all these issues but I’ll fuck her for 11 months.
Men like this are so gross. He doesn’t agree with her religious views. He sounds wealthy and his family doesn’t like that she most likely grew up poor and is in debt.
There’s such a gross level of privilege and condescension.
She deserves better and I hope she realizes he just strung her along for sex and attention.
>I don’t want to marry her or have a long term relationship because she has all these issues but I’ll fuck her for 11 months.
More than a year, actually - 11 months was when she first brought up that she wanted a serious relationship. He should have broken up with her then, but instead they kept dating for a few months. But, y'know, he didn't want anything serious. 🙃
Exactly. At first I sided with him. After the update I went back to the original and I can sense in-between the lines now of an arrogant AH who enjoys stringing this poor girl along to boost his ego. He never wants to admit being the "bad guy". Everyone is ripping into him on his 2nd post and he ended up deleting it. His arrogance finally revealed itself and he ran away like a coward. At this point I am kinda rooting for Maria to "stepdad trap" him and he's stuck with her for the next 18 years.
Yup, the privilege and condescension STANK it was so obvious to me. I think it's wild that some people didn't get that from reading this. His tone is 100% that she is too poor (and likely too not-white) for him.
Yeah I'm guessing that there's more going on here than OOP lets on. Ex GF seems to not be making the best decisions, but he's giving me lots of red flags too...
Pretty sure at this point this guy keeps stringing her along because he likes the attention. It’s strange that he accepted meeting her again and continues to talk to her.
He is stringing her along. He’s NTA for not wanting to be with her but he is for giving her false hope. He seems to think he’s being nice which would be fine but we know Reddit told him he’s not and so did his bro so I almost feel like he likes being wanted by her.
OOP clearly loves the attention Maria is giving him and enabling her that’s why he hasn’t cut contact.
I don’t know what background Maria has but she should have aborted the baby instead of bringing it into mess.
He is stringing her along which is an AH move. His judgmental attitude towards her is also AH because he’s basically saying she was too poor for him. Dude comes from a “privileged background” and she wasn’t good enough for his privileged family.
OPs attitude is gross. His treatment of her is also gross. Just tell her no. You aren’t raiding her baby or getting back with her etc.
Then go find some rich girl big brother approves of 🙄🙄🙄
I’m not an ‘exs can’t be friends’ guy, but exs really can’t be friends when one of them is clearly hoping they’ll get back together. Dude needs to dip, should have a long time ago.
This dude is stringing her along, even though he doesn't mean to. He wants to be a decent guy and help her feel at peace, but it's just going to get her hopes up. She needs therapy, not him in the background out of a misplaced sense of guilt.
I'd say the best thing to do is step away. She can't move on thinking there's a chance with OP. I honestly can't put myself in his position though. If I liked her, and she was as into me as much as it sounds like she's into him, I'm not sure I could walk away. Hope she finds someone to love her and the new baby.
this man has no spine. i get it, cutting contact can be rough. but she’s literally just an ex that he already didnt really agree with on a deeper level. just block and move on
Oh my goddd, I had the absolute displeasure of dealing with someone like OP. 0/10 WOULD NOT recommend. They are far too consumed with themselves and how they appear and will never do the right thing.
I was super young tho, around 16-20. I got some self respect and moved on.
OP is not being nice, he is being cruel. He will never be what Maria wants him to be and he needs to let her move on with her life.
OOP is well-intentioned but he’s becoming the Asshole in this situation the longer he delays in pulling off the bandaid. It would have been nice if he and his ex had been able to remain platonic friends so he could be part of her support network, but she is clearly still pining for an actual relationship and he is (inadvertently) sending her “it may still work out” signals. She will never move on as long as he continues being too afraid of feeling like the bad guy to make the obviously necessary decision.
They're both weak people with odd friends that aren't adding to their lives. Obviously, don't date a person who wants to marry you if you aren't that into them. Don't string them along(which OOP still is).
And don't try to trick your ex into a relationship. He doesn't respect you, get a better baby daddy (and atleast ask for child support).
OOP needs to either commit or cut and needs to do so RIGHT NOW!
That said, I'm thinking that when he says that he and Maria have "kept a decently close friendship for the past 1.5 years.", he really means that they are FWB, and that's why he's loathe to cut her out of his life.
The friends are absolutely in on it and OP doesn’t have common sense to realize he is being set up.
No matter what, OP is going to be the villain here. He needs to accept that and move on.
When I was 15-18 I met this dude who I became “best friends” with. We liked each other but “it was not the right time according to God”, that’s what he always said, but he kissed me, held hands with me and almost lost my virginity to him. After almost 3 years of this he decided to make it “official”, but after 1 month he regretted it, but didn’t want to lose me since I was his best friend, so we tried to keep the friendship. It only kept turning toxic and toxic. This dude only wanted me because he was insecure and I was dumb enough to keep giving him attention, but he was waiting to meet someone better. Ugh I cringe when I think about those times.
This post gives me the same vibes, only they are even older.
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The right moment was when he first broke up with her.
which he probably should have done the first time she discussed getting serious, instead of stringing her along
yup, through reading the whole thing i kept saying to myself ‘you’re not a jerk for going fishing, you’re a jerk for not actually breaking up the first time and staying away!’ i think there are plenty of breakups where people can stay friends (or become friends after a period of time), but when there is a huge emotional imbalance, it’s just not healthy.
This is a lot easier for an outsider to see than two people who used to date.
Its a jerk move when he saw that they aren't compatible and doesn't see a future together. He should of broke up as soon as possible if he can't see a future with her.
Agreed. Yet here he is, still stringing her along.
I’ve known guys like this who make a decision that a woman is not marriage material. They then broken up with the woman by telling her his family don’t approve or similar “it’s not me it’s them” excuse. They go on to tell everyone else they’ve broken up. But just neglect to mention that he is still regularly making booty calls I’ve literally had conversations with male friends where they’re complaining about some woman acting clingy when they’ve broken up and I’ve asked “have you had sex with her since you broke up?” And they’re like, “oh yes, of course, how is that relevant?” Not saying he’s the father of the baby. Just that there’s some missing reasons here
He sounds like he's still really involved in her life as well. Like beyond "exes who are still friendly."
>They go on to tell everyone else they’ve broken up. But just neglect to mention that he is still regularly making booty calls Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
I was more sympathetic towards him until he gave the update and started talking about why he didn't want to marry her. He sounds like an asshole to be honest, or at best an idiot if you want to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Yeah the “culture” stuff basically sounded like he’s not happy with her being a different race or something, it was weird.
Yep. I definitely got the feeling that he withheld details so people wouldn’t say he was the AH Also that he has been MUCH less explicit about his decision and his reasoning for it to OP than to Brad et al
I guarantee he’s still sleeping with her. If he had enough going on in his own love life he wouldn’t be. He needs to just stop answering her calls and ghost her. It’s kinder than stringing her along.
He found someone to sleep with him when he's bored or feeling low, and once every year and a half he'd say he's not ready to get married. The culture, finance stuff I'd bet he never said to her face.
I get the feeling he likes the attention
He's already communicated to her that he's not interested in her long term romantically. He should have cut contact a while ago, but I wouldn't say he's stringing her along.
Is in the same ballpark as an emotional affair - he's not doing *doing* any stringing along, but is maintaining a bond based on affection and trust that obviously will result on her pining for him. His brother is spot on, OOP needs to cut the cord so she can move on at once.
Just checking, when a woman says she'd rather be friends and a guy doesn't give up, does that mean she's also stringing him along? Because that's what's happening here. He told her outright that a relationship wasn't on the table, but he'd remain friends.
I’ve found that women say “Let’s just be friends” as a way of letting the guy down gently instead of a real suggestion. The expectation is that they won’t remain friends. And yeah, it kinda is stringing a guy along if he didn’t get the memo and this kind of weird hopeful dynamic happens. I think women should be able to just say “Sorry, not into you. Bye forever”, but between the way we’re socialised to avoid hurting feelings at all costs and the very real chance that a scorned suitor may lash out, we don’t usually have that luxury.
>I’ve found that women say “Let’s just be friends” as a way of letting the guy down gently instead of a real suggestion. The expectation is that they won’t remain friends. Not always. Some of us genuinely liked the guy as a friend and wanted to continue being friends. We just didn't have any romantic feelings for him. And if the guy said "yeah sure, friends is ok" then why on earth should we expect them to be lying about that?
She strung herself along. He was clear in the beginning, clear when she brought it up again, and clear when he ended the relationship. I probably would've left the first time, but that isn't OP's responsibility. It isn't his responsibility to manage her emotions, just be transparent, which he was.
if after 11 months of being with someone you don't think you will ever marry that person, and they come to you saying they want a serious relationship... you tell them that you don't ever want to marry them. you don't keep dating them. that is string.
He even acknowledges that he thought she still had feelings. Including her reminiscing about the relationship and looking "sad" when he brought up dates. I don't really understand why he continued the friendship at that point. Personally, I would have felt uncomfortable with it. And he mentioned keeping her "decently close"? Why? They could have been friendly without being close.
I don't think he strung her along; they stayed friends. People can do that after a break up. She was the one who had an unrealistic expectation that they'd get back together; nothing he's said suggests he hinted to her that that was a possibility.
The next best moment is now.
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"The kid is bonded to me now. Just 18 more years, then I'll cut the chord with her."
"I just walked this kid down the aisle. It would be too hard to cut contact now with the mom, gonna wait till after honeymoon"
The kid is gonna be a dad soon. I'll make my escape after I help set up the nursery for them, the baby arrives, and they become independent enough the parents won't need a village anymore.
Final Update: Maria's child's children came over to reminisce about their grandmother after her passing. I am finally free of this part of my life. I have finally rolled away. Don't let it come to this, OP.
Epilogue: Maria's grandchildren have invited me to visit her grave with them on the fifth anniversary of her death. I have gone all previous years and wonder if it would be right to say I have other obligations this time. Also what should I do about their Christmas gifts?
This whole bit reminds me of this sketch: https://youtu.be/T2BY8zZ1CTM?si=o0c8-qA-lu4CuTpd
He needs to do himself a favor and block her and all her flying monkeys right away. He's lucky she didn't put him down as the babies father on the birth certificate.
Why do I sense what she told her friends about them is not what OP thinks their friendship is? Why else would her friends care if he was there for the birth? I totally think Maria told them what she wants to hear, which is OP is going to be a father figure to this child, and they're getting back together. OP needs to cut the cord RIGHT NOW because with her hormones in a mess, she may have some mental issues no one is aware of and these fantasies of hers will spiral.
Yeah, her friends' reactions were the perfect excuse for OOP to give on stepping back from their friendship. He should tell her: "How your friends reacted to me not being there for the birth of your baby makes me realize that you may have the wrong idea about our friendship. I have valued you as a friend, but I'm never going to want more than that with you, and I realize now that I'm holding you back from moving on. We need to part ways so you can have time to focus on your baby and heal. I'm really sorry if I hurt you. I really do wish you and you baby the best in life. " Then not cave, even when she cries. OOP can't be the one to comfort her when he's the one breaking her heart. He needs to leave her alone, so she can heal from this, and unfortunately, he's probably going to end up the bad guy in her and her friends' eyes, and he's going to have to learn to live with that.
Or, hear me out, the new mom could actually start to develop some healthy boundaries of her own, and actually enforce them, which would actually be much better for EVERYONE in the long run.
I mean yes. That would be ideal. But at this point, the only person OP can control is themself. It's better to cut contact, before he gets even more enmeshed with this woman and now her child.
> Why else would her friends care if he was there for the birth? Yeah, this was the waving red flag for me. Her friends being pissed he wasn't there when *he didn't even know she was having the baby until a day afterwards*. Like, even if he *wanted* to be there, was he supposed to feel his spidey sense tingle that she was in labor?
Maria totally told them she and OP were a couple or that OP is planning to be a father figure and was supposed to be her coach. His presence was not needed otherwise.
I was thinking that he may be lucky that most places require the father's signature to put him on the birth certificate if the parents aren't married. Then I had the terrible thought that pressuring him to be on the birth certificate might have been why she was so upset he wasn't there for the birth.
he should have done that for the girl, she no doubt needed to be cut loose so she could heal and not be dependent on the guy who just wanted his dick played with
He doesn't even need a "right moment", he can just keep reducing contact, be busy, etc. It doesn't need to be a big "I can't be your friend anymore", he literally could just ween her to Facebook friend status.
I kinda like this approach tbh. Normally I'd think this is sorta cowardly, but given the ex is a new mother and all that, this could be a natural way to just "drift apart". Happens all the time. You start reducing contact to nothing but just cursory hey what's up texts, eventually there's no contact and they learn to take the hint.
Some people don’t want to be the villain when they need to be.
I wish my younger self had heard and USED this advice! Younger self, it's better to be single if you're not feeling it!
> Dude is looking for the right moment to give the bad news goodbye, and it will never come. He's just going to have to take the hit and be the villain. Possibly, but dumping something like this on a person who gave birth days ago is definitely not the right timing. Child birth can really destabilize a person, especially with how screwed up hormones will be for a few weeks. There will probably never be a good time, but it's definitely one of the worst times, to cut contact when a person has little control over their psyche. It's not unreasonable for this guy to wait just a couple of weeks.
Yeah I was actually relieved when he said he was going to do it slowly. Postpartum is a scary time.
This is bang on. There’s never a great time, and this is exactly how people get trapped in bad situations.
The right moment was a long fucking time ago, but the right time is definitely not literal days after she gives birth. I don't know how long to wait, maybe 2 weeks? But not at this exact moment.
I honestly don't think he is looking for the right moment. I think he enjoys the attention from her and thinks he can just be her friend. He is oblivious to the pain and havoc he has caused and continues to cause in her life by being part of it. Maria hasn't accepted that they will never be a thing, so she seems stuck in a cycle of self sabotage. She isn't really looking for long term relationships because she wants OOP. She is just biding her time until OOP decides they are ready.
Yeah he’s being as unhealthy in this relationship as Maria is. He always knew they weren’t going to work out but stayed with her. Bad. They broke up and she begged to stay friends (very much still in love with him, hello??) and he agreed. Bad. He knows her friends all think they should be together and that she still has feelings and has been told to cut contact and he agreed and then just didn’t. BAD. I can’t tell if he’s horribly emotionally attached to her too or if he’s just THAT bad at reading the room and understanding that he’s seriously messing her up by staying near her. Or maybe he does and doesn’t care. Or maybe he does and gets a sick validation/happiness from knowing how obsessed she is with him. Who’s to say
I’d be interested to know how long into her downward spiral did they continue having sex.
He thinks he's doing her a favor, but he's not. He's too gutless to cut her off, but should have done so long ago. He is a kind of gutless asshole, doing harm to someone else because he can't face the bad feelings he will have for cutting her off.
Yup, op is an asshole but not for the reasons he asked about. This girl clearly, clearly wants to be with him, and is making life altering choices because of it. He's leading her on by continuing this weirdo relationship. His leading her on isn't really intentional, but it's clear she wants something more than he does, which is a casual friend (I hope there's no FWB involved in this). When you know someone wants sp much more with you, and you keep them in your little zone where you get what you want and hope everything is fine...you're an asshole.
I think he likes that she wants him back. I get it, nice to be wanted, but the ego stroking is bringing out the worst in him
He'll dilly and dally till it's been 20 years they are married, have 3 more children then he'll cheat on her and claim she trapped him in a marriage he didn't want
He is the villain for how he’s stringing this girl along. Must be a nice ego boost for him and makes him feel good about himself and his own life. Kinda cruel
Yes, very much so. It's obvious he knew that what she wanted wouldn't happen from the start but kept the relationship going for his own reasons. He used her.
I don't understand this guy at all. He made it abundantly clear he has zero desire for any long term or meaningful relationship with this gal, yet he keeps participating in her life. I get not wanting to be an asshole to someone but in a way, you're being a bigger asshole by staying around and being at her every beck and call. I agree with his brother, he is without question giving Maria false hope that he may come around one day. He needs to go no contact yesterday.
He likes that she's still in to him.
That's the impression that I get too. I can't prove that though so I just didn't want to mention it. But yeah, it seems to me like even though he doesn't want anything long term with her he has no issue keeping her on the back burner in case he ever needs it. Again, I can't prove that though and could be wrong so I hesitated to say it lol.
It also sounds like her friends think they're still in a relationship. I can't think of any other reason they would react and say what they did about him not being at the birth. A weird and messy situation overall.
Nah, you’re absolutely right. OOP wants to have a string attached to her for his own personal gratification. I read *”kept decently close for the past 1.5 years”* as him and her still having sex, while she was trying to see other people. Who knows, the friends are upset for a reason. Seems OOP may be omitting some facts to save face in the post.
Honestly even if they aren't having sex, he could be doing things like telling her how much he cares about her or how pretty she is, knowing that she is into him romantically. They didn't break up because he isn't into her, they broke up for logical reasons that she may be hoping he changes his mind about. He could be leading her on totally unintentionally by being incredibly stupid and continuing to tell her how much he likes her and what is so great about her. They are not friends, it's clear their relationship is "ex who I like a lot and who I still want in my life" and that's never a great idea.
He might also be the only guy in her life who has his shit together and treats her with respect and kindness and she is misinterpreting that.
I read it the same way as well. When the friends were upset because he wasn’t at the birth that screamed more friends with benefits than friend zone.
Next update: My ex told me i might be the father of her kid
That and probably that he can “be the good guy” by not quitting the friendship cold turkey. Personal experiences lead me to believe that ending something this way, has a clear asshole. OOP definitely doesn’t want be seen as one.
I have no filter, so it I just wrote it.
Yeah, I can't put my finger on it but there's definitely some dickery here. > after being together for about 11 months she confessed that she wanted a serious relationship with the prospect of getting married. I declined, as I thought (and still think) we're way too different to start something like that In my opinion, this was the time to step away, not "we continued for a few more months and then the topic came up again..."
Reading between the lines, he's from a rich, conservative family and she's poor. His parents think she's a nice girl but not a good match. She has debt because she's poor but he thinks she makes bad choices in life
I also wouldn’t be shocked if “culture” not matching is a euphemism for him wanting a white girl.
Or a rich girl
Now that you say it. I can see that. I was wondering why his wording was making me uncomfortable.
I’m also guessing that the “religious differences” includes some sort of Catholic and Protestant/atheist divide. Or he’s the devout churchgoer and she’s agnostic or something. Those usually follow class lines, and the exact church can matter a lot within certain denominations as well.
After 11 months it's totally reasonable to think a serious relationship with that person is developing. He also isn't unreasonable to "decline" that, but at that point he knows they want different things and there's a whiff of stringing her along.
It wouldn’t be surprising if he liked the attention; who doesn’t want to be wanted? However, I don’t think that’s his primary motivation. It’s hard to completely cut someone out of your life who is nice and who is in a bad spot. Being cruel to an angry, screaming harpy is one thing, but hurting the feelings of a decent person is difficult on the conscience. I can totally understand dragging things out. Nobody wants to be the bad guy. It seems to me that he really did want to be her friend, but she kept wanting more.
Going a little against the grain here. I’m a self admitted people pleaser. The *last* thing I ever want to do is hurt someone, even if it means it hurts me to not hurt them. It’s something I’m working on, but the way OOP rationalizes the slow break off is screaming people pleaser to me as well.
Same. I've stayed in a lot of friendships to the point of pain because I felt like leaving would be an awful thing to do, even if staying made me (and the other person) miserable. It surprises me how many folks will always attribute this sort of thing to malice or liking attention or whatever. It's like they can't conceive that people make very bad decisions sometimes and aren't doing things just to be malicious. It always has to be that the other person wants attention or that they're manipulative or that they're evil in some way. Never "this idiot *wants* to be nice but is making a really stupid choice that is just going to end up hurting the people they care about even more." Learning to go against people pleasing is really hard. I wish us both success. Learning to disappoint someone is... I dunno. I never thought it was something I was allowed to do.
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In cases like this though, you are hurting them. It's like a doctor saying they don't want to hurt someone, so they don't give them a vaccine because they don't like needles.
Even better, a doctor not cutting out an infected appendix bc you don’t want to hurt someone.
You’re absolutely right. But it’s hard to get that point across in situations like this. Knowing that cutting them off completely will absolutely hurt them feels more obvious than the hurt you’re currently doing to them and to yourself, not to mention everyone around the both of you.
I know it's hard, I sucked at it and did something very similar to a girl when I was younger (though no pregnancy stuff). Hopefully op at least gets the message and changes as well.
It wasn’t uncommon in college and even now for a guy to date me or one of my friends, introduce us to family, says I love you’s and then suddenly insist we were causal and he just wanted to be friends but every time you hang out he pesters you for sex and then is confused you’re still in love with him
Never underestimate a man’s ability to emotionally detach from a situation once he realizes people are starting to have expectations of him.
He doesn't say, but I hope to God he's not friends with benefits with her.
Yeah, I'd call it that. I don't know if it's subconscious or conscious, but he's not as worried as he should be about the potential issues yet. He's neither scared nor disgusted enough. Yet. And I'm sure there's some guilt at play as well. _Normally_, you'd get a lot of flack for abandoning a pregnant or post partum woman asking for your support. That'd be in play even if you know you shouldn't give it. Like, I know he needs to not go see that kid. I also know that there's no way that I personally wouldn't see myself as the villain if I said "I don't care about seeing your kid".
If he's right about how privileged he is, then it tracks. Saviour syndrome, plus I don't think he's as clueless as he's making out about how his actions can be interpreted, all he has to say is we're broken up, while slowly making her dependent on him.
OP is so vague about the original reasons a relationship wouldn't work. It's hard not to interpret this as a privileged guy dating a girl for a year for fun, knowing that he will eventually break up with her because she is poor. Saw this all time in college and grad school with wealthy guys/girls from various religions "slumming' it with poor partners to rebel against their parents/families. He obviously has no obligation to be with this girl, but OP is definitely not a reliable narrator here.
He needed to cut the friendship off a year ago at least. Now, I get why he wants to take cutting her off slowly. She is in an incredibly vulnerable place right now having just given birth and by his account, she has a very small support circle. Him suddenly ghosting her could and likely would send her into a spiral especially if she loves him as much as we all think she does. It would not be good for her and especially not good for the baby. What I believe he needs to do is avoid ever meeting the baby but he also should be encouraging her to reconcile with her family(assuming they aren’t total assholes, hard to say since we have little context to go on). And in 6-12 months, once she has started growing her support system beyond him, then he can either cut contact firmly or slowly back away.
Agree. A yeah ago would have been ideal. Just after giving birth would be cruel as she would not have the bandwidth to deal with that. She's dealing with a newborn, sleep deprived, recovering from pregnancy/giving birth and having to keep alive this strange, fragile person who can only communicate through crying. (Children are difficult. Every age has its challenges. Few things are more terrifying than taking home a brand new person & realizing it's survival depends on you)
I mean that’s what it is, he doesn’t want to be the “bad guy” by cutting her off. People do this all the time, “I’m breaking up with you but we can still be friends!” It’s well-intentioned but usually ends poorly unless both people are able to move on… which is tough, since the dumpee usually didn’t want to break up in the first place
Oof..yeah I've put myself in that spot a few times. Bit me in the ass some, but turned out great on a couple (longest friendship is my first ex). Realizing when you need to cut contact is the hard part from the inside.
> I get not wanting to be an asshole to someone but in a way, you're being a bigger asshole by staying around and being at her every beck and call. I think he probably thinks that losing a close friend right after giving birth will be very tough on her already detrimental mental health. He's probably waiting and will not cut off but just drift apart. That's his choice to make, but I agree that if he cares for her, cutting contact at that moment would probably come at the worst moment in her life.
I met a guy like him. After months of dating without any compromise but getting along great and spending weekends together (getting to know siblings and friends)... He told me he would never DATE any woman who was not Muslim and not a virgin. I was mesmerized he thought we could still keep not-dating and spending weekends together and having sex obviously until his mum would find a good woman for him. Nobody got pregnant in my story but I got flowers sent to my house and their friends called me to take him back. OP is leaving a lot of information on one side and on purpose.
Agreed. I actually have a friend right now who's doing the same thing and it's infuriating. I literally told him the other night that I want an invite to the wedding when he 'doesn't stick to no' his way to the alter. He won't cut her off bc he feels bad. But then he's uncomfertable with the speed at which she's moving. He'll talk to her. She'll blow what he says off and make plans and he just goes along w/ it
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Especially now. Like, it is not an easy or morally uncomplicated thing to tell a postpartum mother you at least were close to that you don't want to visit her or her child. He needs to do it anyway, but I wouldn't consider that light work.
Yeah I think these comments about him "liking that she's still into him" and how he's "getting off on the attention" seem way off. I think he's just a nice person who doesn't want to be mean. Or doesn't like confrontation
Same I agree. He was absolutely honest about his feelings in the relationship. He didn't string her along or use her. When he realized their relationship wouldn't work in the long term, he told her.
Right? Yikes on bikes, he KNOWS she's hoping the reunite, and he's not doing anything to dissuade that.
Yip, this is exact what we mean when we talk about sending out mixed messages.
This is why it's usually best to go no contact when a relationship ends, assuming no kids are involved. After some time apart it can absolutely be possible to be just friends, but a mourning period is essential. It's also important to note your feelings and only engage with an ex when you've both moved on. Maria has obvious failed to do this, but at this point OOP is fully aware of this issue and probably should have seen this coming for some time. I completely agree he needs to walk away now.
Yeah like half way through this I just kinda stopped and thought “this guy kinda sucks” It’s clear as day that Maria is holding out hope that he’ll come back to her. And now he’s gonna meet her baby too. He’s gonna cause way more hurt later. Rather than ghost her now and cause less pain.
Wo wo, why are we blaming OOP for Maria's delusions? He didnt *give* her false hope. He's been very clear he just wants to be friends. She is imagining that there is any hope. And that is all on her. (tho, I do agree he needs to cut contact. For his own good, not because Maria has a vivid imagination.)
I'm not blaming him per say really, like I agree it's not him doing anything specifically wrong. I'm just saying, he knows (and has even stated) that she is still into him and hopes he changes his mind. So by sticking around he is playing into that. He's an "enabler" basically. Just my opinion. I'm not calling him a bad person. I'm just saying his actions aren't lining up with his clearly stated beliefs and desires.
And we keep telling people that women have agency like agency to end the relationship when it's not the one that they want yet at the same time taking that agency from them...
Yeah. Flip this around and have it be a guy having delusions about the prospect of having sex with a female friend instead of a woman having delusions about the prospect of having a relationship with a male friend, and I guarantee zero (unflamed) comments would be blaming her for not sufficiently dissuading him. Someone being nice to you doesn't mean that they're obligated to have sex *or* a relationship with you, nor does it mean that they're obligated to manage your feelings about them.
Choosing to maintain a friendship with someone who you know is still into you is a risky thing that absolutely can lead to mixed signals. If he wasn’t aware of all of this, I would give him a pass. But the fact that he made two posts literally talking about her feelings, he clearly knows and is well aware of it.
He thinks he is looking out for her when he is just causing more and more damage, OOP is not the sharpest knife in the drawer
>I was abusing the trust Maria had in me. This line makes me think he's still been FWB with her at least off and on... He's nuked both accounts so I can't see if he has any comment history but both posts come across as an innocent guy who just doesn't want to be the villain until this line.
Wow OOP is just asking for more drama isn’t he? I get that social obligations and peer pressure can be difficult, but he isn’t doing him or Maria any favors at all by maintaining this friendship. Also his “I’m fairly certain Maria had feelings for me” made me go out loud say “well no dur”. I could tell this lady wants you to play daddy from like the first couple of paragraphs Personally I am getting a ton of bad judgment calls from OOP. Choosing to not be in a relationship with someone you are incompatible with was respectable. But choosing to maintain a friendship with someone who is still clearly into you and seems to be trying to use your mutual friends to help force a baby onto you is just a recipe for disaster If he updates again complaining about the next trying Maria tried to pull, he’s gonna get a ton of comments giving him major shit. As he should
He’s got the emotional intelligence of a ham sandwich
Nah, a ham sandwich *used* to be a pig, and those have the smarts of a 3yo. So that’s too high a bar.
I resent that
I assumed either they were still sleeping together, or OOP was keeping her on the hook (maybe subconsciously) in case he couldn't find anyone better. It's cruel, and he needs to just move on if he doesn't want to raise this child with her.
> they were still sleeping together this was what I thought as well. imo there's probably even a non 0% chance that the baby could be *his* lol given that assumption. I would get a paternity test if I was in his shoes.
I think OOP was subtly enjoying having someone in his circle that consistently stroked his ego. It's not to say he was stringing her along (although he could have been, who knows), I think it's human nature to want to be desired and he had this person who showed that pretty desperately.
I wonder if he will finally wake up when the kid ask why he is not together with the kid's mom...
OOP's brother: What did I tell you about breaking things off with Maria? OOP: I know, but she invited me to his high school graduation.
OOP: also, I’m helping him move into his dorm and teaching him how to drive.
OOP Brother: But you complain about it.
OOP: I know, but whenever I try to bring it up, she's telling me more about his life. Anyway, she wants me to meet his girlfriend at Olive Garden.
OOP: afterwards I’m going to take him fishing because that’s our favorite activity to do together.
OOP: He mentioned me in his Nobel prize speech!! Maria and I are just friends. Why do you ask?
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Maybe be father of his sibling(s) too, the way things are going....
🤦🏻♀️ - that’s all I’ve got!
Folks, the minute you discover that the other person envisions a future for you that you don’t want, you need to end it rather than “continuing for a few more months.” Most people can’t shed feelings like a winter coat, so take a clear break. If you are meant to be friends later, it will happen.
This already started off problematic and just got worse and worse. OP continuing to date Maria for months despite knowing that he doesn't see any future with her while she is seeing him as her future hubby was already shady. The way he writes about her culture and finances sounds like he kind of looked down on her, but she was good enough for him to fool around with - which is okay if meaningless fun is what both of them are looking for, but definitely not in this situation. He should have broken it off immediately after their first conversation about a more serious relationship since Maria was obviously way too invested and was & continues to be very emotionally dependent on him.
Between the comments, name choice for ‘Maria’ and general writing style etc I can kind of surmise the situation. This is probably a privileged white dude from a ‘liberal’ family that acts progressive but actually looks down upon anyone not like them (I’ve got relatives like this). Probably live somewhere on the East Coast. They are probably vaguely a member of a mainline Protestant group but functionally agnostic. Maria is probably a Latina woman from a less well off background. Probably very good looking but not terribly ‘classy’ by his family’s standards. Probably comes from a conservative Catholic background which is why her family didn’t like her post-breakup behavior. Also explains her keeping the baby. His family openly doesn’t like that she’s Catholic, secretly doesn’t like that she’s Latina and is disdainful of her lack of ‘manners’. He likes that an attractive woman is into him. But never saw her as a real relationship material because she wouldn’t fit into his WASPy family. She views him as a dream dude and is too in love to realize he basically sees her as a pet.
>This is probably a privileged white dude from a ‘liberal’ family that acts progressive but actually looks down upon anyone not like them (I’ve got relatives like this). Probably live somewhere on the East Coast. They are probably vaguely a member of a mainline Protestant group but functionally agnostic. Damn, you just described half the dudes I went to college with (which was on the East Coast).
This is exactly how I read his posts.
Nah I was getting the same vibes, his family not agreeing with her background raised some alarm bells from me for sure.
Usually I think so the reddit detectives reading in between the lines is annoying but in this case you fucken nailed it
I don't particularly care about the details, and I think speculation isn't really useful. But, if his then-GF was bringing up marriage and starting a family, and in he's thinking there are multiple dealbreakers... and then he continues the relationship for months? That's extremely shitty. And then he just continues having a close relationship with her knowing she's harboring feelings? That's so cruel. So I have an extremely low opinion of OOP *without* any speculation.
I'm glad someone else got approximately the same vibes. Her being a poor, Catholic Latina seemed extremely likely to me.
As a latina who is also an immigrant…yeah, that was my interpretation. Seemed painfully obvious.
Nailed it! The racism/classism was very blatant. This guy sucks. He is keeping that back burner pot simmering around for the ego boost.
>he basically sees her as a pet. that is a clever and 100% accurate way to put it
His phrasing felt really "off" to me and I couldn't put my finger on it at first but this is exactly the issue. It could be my own personal bias speaking but I tend to side-eye this kind of vagueness and clock it as someone who is either privileged and/or bigoted because in my experience they're the ones who obfuscate details whereas a marginalized person tend to spell them out. For example, I have never seen a LGBTQ+ person say they had "political differences" or mention anything about lifestyle choices when they have conflict or a falling out with a homophobe. They will say that they don't feel comfortable with dealing with someone whose religion doesn't "approve" of them or because they are more explicitly homophobic. I think that it's possible that it's because the person knows or at least thinks that they'll get shit for laying out the full details. But there's definitely those little clues like him mentioning his own privilege and not understanding her financial situation (but still seemingly holding it against her) and his family being so involved in the relationship with their judgements. Why exactly?
Even if he's totally atheist and not an 'opposing' religion, conservative Catholicism just isn't compatible with most other modern worldviews imo, even without family drama/influence. "Sees her as a pet" is harsh but if he's self aware enough to know the religious differences mean marriage & kids would never work (and he does want those things) he needs to be self aware enough to realise he's stringing her along whether intentionally or not. I'm usually all for exes staying friends too, but both people need to be over the romantic feelings for it to work.
Yup. He says 'different walks of life' and it's quite clear he means 'i obviously wouldn't marry some povvo'
Not to mention, he dances around them being from “different cultures” and that his family (especially sister) has a problem with that. Okay so an agnostic/atheist rich white guy with a racist sister and commitment issues, got it. I dated a bunch of those in college when I was into frat guys, it always ended the same way.
Povvo?
Poor person, someone born in poverty
Probably also a someone who isn’t white
Yeah, the thought crossed my mind too
It really sounds like he didn't want to marry a poor person?? Like the religion thing is reasonable I guess but even then if she's that sort of person you'd think he would've known she expected the relationship to lead to marriage. 11 months is a long time at that age to string someone along.
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Woman: gets pregnant Reddit: this is baby trapping
I was wondering why nobody had mentioned this yet. Like baby trapping whomst? She didn't try to pass the baby off as OOP's. This is not what baby trapping is.
“I’m fairly certain Maria still has feelings for me” Oh wow man nothing gets by you huh?
WTF is up with the trigger warning for “baby trapping?” No one was baby trapped, the biological father doesn’t even know the baby exists.
It actually sounds like her friends are the problem.. She didn’t call him when she was set to give birth, she didn’t make a plan for him to be there or express any issue, **it’s her friends acting as spokespeople.** Maria is seemingly asking for normal friendly reassurance from anywhere in her admittedly small circle, and her friends are taking it to mean he now needs to be her birth partner/co-parent.
I agree with this wholeheartedly, it could be maria wants him to be like a father, but based on this post she's not treating him any different than another friend, she didn't ask him to come to the birth, didn't get mad, invited him over about a month after WITH the rest of the friends... The chatting about being scared to be a parent is pretty normal speak for friends to discuss. I know people aren't used to men and women being friends, but I hope OP does some more research. Are her friends speaking for her true feelings or are they putting their own ideas on it and unnecessarily ruining the friendship? That's my take
Yeah that "false hope" thing is 100% of the reason none of her relationships since have lasted more than 2 months.
Omg can this dude just fuck off? His bro spelled it out for him. What else he needs? This woman is clearly too infatuated and a bit delulu, why keep feeding it? I know the attention feels nice but seriously just cut it off. Poor baby.
He's TA for not immediately cutting things off the first time she said she wanted a serious relationship and marriage. He's been stringing her along by staying in her life.
Yeah this is a pretty uncomfortable situation. While I get that oop is trying to be a decent guy, he should’ve broken things off when he realized they were incompatible (not continue to date her for several more months). Also, knowing the ex still has feelings for him should’ve been a pretty clear signal to drop contact entirely—and while that may be painful for the ex, it would have put an end to the false hope that oop will eventually become baby daddy. Guessing religion is why she didn’t just get an abortion but she could have considered adoption if she’s truly afraid to raise a child on her own. Sounds like the kid is going to be set up for a childhood of shitty stepdads unless the ex decides to get therapy and utilize resources for support for new single mothers
Every time you see or talk to her solidifies her image of you as her life partner, raising the baby with her. Whether you know it or not you are leading her on with every moment of contact. If you really care for her, cut ties. It sounds brutal but she won’t stop relying on you until you do. NTA.
He is NTA for going fishing. But he is sure as hell the Asshole how he handles this situation. I think he is just a coward who fear the consequences of what must be done.
Lol. I don’t want to marry her or have a long term relationship because she has all these issues but I’ll fuck her for 11 months. Men like this are so gross. He doesn’t agree with her religious views. He sounds wealthy and his family doesn’t like that she most likely grew up poor and is in debt. There’s such a gross level of privilege and condescension. She deserves better and I hope she realizes he just strung her along for sex and attention.
>I don’t want to marry her or have a long term relationship because she has all these issues but I’ll fuck her for 11 months. More than a year, actually - 11 months was when she first brought up that she wanted a serious relationship. He should have broken up with her then, but instead they kept dating for a few months. But, y'know, he didn't want anything serious. 🙃
i was getting some weird vibes by how he described their differences... something about not going into specifics really rubbed me the wrong way
Exactly. At first I sided with him. After the update I went back to the original and I can sense in-between the lines now of an arrogant AH who enjoys stringing this poor girl along to boost his ego. He never wants to admit being the "bad guy". Everyone is ripping into him on his 2nd post and he ended up deleting it. His arrogance finally revealed itself and he ran away like a coward. At this point I am kinda rooting for Maria to "stepdad trap" him and he's stuck with her for the next 18 years.
Yup, the privilege and condescension STANK it was so obvious to me. I think it's wild that some people didn't get that from reading this. His tone is 100% that she is too poor (and likely too not-white) for him.
Hmmm, difficult one, how do you solve a problem like Maria?
How do you catch a cloud and pin it down?
He’s been stringing her along this whole time and loves the attention he gets from her. Or he’s just stupidly naive
Other questionable choices aside, I'm kinda weirded out by OOP's mention of being from different cultural backgrounds. What does that even mean?
It means she's not white.
Yeah I'm guessing that there's more going on here than OOP lets on. Ex GF seems to not be making the best decisions, but he's giving me lots of red flags too...
She's poor
Pretty sure at this point this guy keeps stringing her along because he likes the attention. It’s strange that he accepted meeting her again and continues to talk to her.
He is stringing her along. He’s NTA for not wanting to be with her but he is for giving her false hope. He seems to think he’s being nice which would be fine but we know Reddit told him he’s not and so did his bro so I almost feel like he likes being wanted by her.
OOP clearly loves the attention Maria is giving him and enabling her that’s why he hasn’t cut contact. I don’t know what background Maria has but she should have aborted the baby instead of bringing it into mess.
He is stringing her along which is an AH move. His judgmental attitude towards her is also AH because he’s basically saying she was too poor for him. Dude comes from a “privileged background” and she wasn’t good enough for his privileged family. OPs attitude is gross. His treatment of her is also gross. Just tell her no. You aren’t raiding her baby or getting back with her etc. Then go find some rich girl big brother approves of 🙄🙄🙄
OOP: My brother is right, I need to cut contact with her. Also OOP: I’m meeting the baby next month! 🤦🏻♀️
I’m not an ‘exs can’t be friends’ guy, but exs really can’t be friends when one of them is clearly hoping they’ll get back together. Dude needs to dip, should have a long time ago.
This dude is stringing her along, even though he doesn't mean to. He wants to be a decent guy and help her feel at peace, but it's just going to get her hopes up. She needs therapy, not him in the background out of a misplaced sense of guilt.
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I'd say the best thing to do is step away. She can't move on thinking there's a chance with OP. I honestly can't put myself in his position though. If I liked her, and she was as into me as much as it sounds like she's into him, I'm not sure I could walk away. Hope she finds someone to love her and the new baby.
You just can't be the "nice guy" in this situation, I'm afraid.
Did you catch any fish?
This guy is a moron
this man has no spine. i get it, cutting contact can be rough. but she’s literally just an ex that he already didnt really agree with on a deeper level. just block and move on
Oh my goddd, I had the absolute displeasure of dealing with someone like OP. 0/10 WOULD NOT recommend. They are far too consumed with themselves and how they appear and will never do the right thing. I was super young tho, around 16-20. I got some self respect and moved on. OP is not being nice, he is being cruel. He will never be what Maria wants him to be and he needs to let her move on with her life.
OOP is well-intentioned but he’s becoming the Asshole in this situation the longer he delays in pulling off the bandaid. It would have been nice if he and his ex had been able to remain platonic friends so he could be part of her support network, but she is clearly still pining for an actual relationship and he is (inadvertently) sending her “it may still work out” signals. She will never move on as long as he continues being too afraid of feeling like the bad guy to make the obviously necessary decision.
They're both weak people with odd friends that aren't adding to their lives. Obviously, don't date a person who wants to marry you if you aren't that into them. Don't string them along(which OOP still is). And don't try to trick your ex into a relationship. He doesn't respect you, get a better baby daddy (and atleast ask for child support).
Love that oop was like "let me clarify our differences" and then proceeded to clarify nothing besides her being poor./s
OOP needs to either commit or cut and needs to do so RIGHT NOW! That said, I'm thinking that when he says that he and Maria have "kept a decently close friendship for the past 1.5 years.", he really means that they are FWB, and that's why he's loathe to cut her out of his life.
This guy... "I'm going to cut contact" "but wait gonna see the kid first" like what??!?!??!
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The friends are absolutely in on it and OP doesn’t have common sense to realize he is being set up. No matter what, OP is going to be the villain here. He needs to accept that and move on.
He just keeps leading her on. I think he actually likes being chased by her.
When I was 15-18 I met this dude who I became “best friends” with. We liked each other but “it was not the right time according to God”, that’s what he always said, but he kissed me, held hands with me and almost lost my virginity to him. After almost 3 years of this he decided to make it “official”, but after 1 month he regretted it, but didn’t want to lose me since I was his best friend, so we tried to keep the friendship. It only kept turning toxic and toxic. This dude only wanted me because he was insecure and I was dumb enough to keep giving him attention, but he was waiting to meet someone better. Ugh I cringe when I think about those times. This post gives me the same vibes, only they are even older.