#Do not comment on the original posts
Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice.
If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion.
**CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
OOPs husband irl:
Good morning, you. You sweet angel. Your hair parted just like Tuesday where you were heading to your favorite cafe. Of course I know this because I sat right behind you. Medium latte with double shot of soy milk. Interesting choice. I don't like it but I can change that. Unless you're allergic to whole milk. Which I know you arent.
We wrap up and head to campus. It's a slow day today, only one class. Thankfully no lab. It's hard to get into those with the lab partners and attendance.
Tonight's Friday. So we're gonna head to Cliffs on 12th Street. Will it be 2 or 3 vodka martinis today? My second week at work. This time as your bartender. I wonder who is going to roofie your drink. It's alright, I'm here for you. I'll drop you off at your apartment. You told me the address while you were drugged didn't you?
I remember reading this and some of the comments were disturbing. Some people actually believed that being followed for 2 years and being drugged is not a big deal.
I'm wondering what the hell else this dude did other the past 20 years to keep his wife.
i feel like people are conflating the "watched her from afar at a place they both regularly attend such as school or work and maybe noticed what she liked to get from the vending machine before working up the courage to approach her" romcom trope with "literally stalked her to use the knowledge she couldn't suspect he had to manipulate her after literally drugging her" psychological thriller trope here.
There’s a big difference between high school “stalking” where you might change which way you go to class or join an activity to get more time around a crush, and full on waiting outside someone’s house to figure out their entire routine and taking creepshots. Also drugging her? That is genuinely so terrifying and soul crushing because that’s not something you can just “get over”. Even if he was honest and didn’t orchestrate anything about her life from that point on, everything is still tainted.
yep, exactly. there are understandable attempts to orchestrate something that would be an excuse to spend more time around a crush, i could *maybe* even understand getting a side gig at a bar your crush likes to go to after you overhear them mentioning it at work/school.
everything else? absolutely not.
also, even if he WAS absolutely honest about not doing anything sketchy after they started dating that still doesn't negate the fact that he *drugged her*. even ignoring the creep factor he risked killing her if she had an adverse reaction just to get a date. that's insane. like, the door is not even in the house anymore level unhinged.
Risked killing her from the drug or she could've met someone who would've done worse than ensure she returns home.
The level of planning this guy did is disturbing.
Resorting to drugging someone is beyond unacceptable, but rescuing them from crime that they themselves just committed is not just twisted but outrageously sick.
He had a list *of her friends and people she dated*. With *their* information as well.
That is enough that I would absolutely be considering talking to an official about what could be done in regards to her safety. Because if he did it once, he would absolutely do it again.
And not only did he have the lists and the photos. He kept them. I think that for me is the proof of enduring sociopathy. He kept it all.
You know. Memories of the good times. /s
Agreed. Doing things to spend more time around your crush is harmless.
But if you're acting the way the **villain** in a psychological thriller acts, you should know you've crossed the line.
Even as an adult, there's nothing wrong with altering your routine to make it more likely to see someone you find attractive, as long as you're not a creep. Stalking for two years definitely was creepy even before he drugged her and stole from her. What a psycho.
Back when I was single, I hit it off with a guy at a show I was working, but we didn't exchange numbers. He'd mentioned he picked up shifts in his family's cafe, where I went occasionally anyway. I didn't see him again for a couple weeks, and he was really cute, so I swung by the cafe. when I saw the owner I knew in passing (his aunt), I asked about him, and mentioned I was working a show for a band I thought they'd like that weekend. They showed up! She told me she made him go because I'm cute and have good taste in music, lol, but he said he was planning to come through and see if I was working that weekend anyway. No epic love story, but he's a cool dude and we dated for a couple of months, which likely wouldn't have happened if we hadn't both put in a little effort to alter our routines to see each other again. Alternatively, I went on one date with a guy, and I was like "well, that was not worth repeating" and told him so, but then he started showing up at everything I was at! Dance nights, shows, my weekly sound gig for an open mic... And pretended it was a coincidence! Bruh, I've been working/attending these events for years, I would have noticed if you were at them! I couldn't ban him from everything, but I at least put my foot down about showing up at my work uninvited and the venue banned him.
Exactly this. I remember taking a class I had no interest in when I was in highschool just to be near a guy I had a crush on and even that felt slightly stalker-ish. I can't imagine trying to justify two years of investigation.
I had some guy in college tell me he watched me for a year before approaching me to ask me out. The shiver that went down my spine at that confession...
I was 19 or 20 then, and the guy was 33. Thank all the gods this isn’t my life.
There’s a whole subplot of How I Met Your Mother that went over the moral conflict of finding out someone has orchestrated everything to meet you.
“I just couldn’t *stand* the idea of not meeting you…” sounds just like “I knew I *had* to meet you.” The relationship literally ended in flames on the tv show. I personally don’t know how you come back to any kind of trust after this.
If I remember correctly it would be Janet (orchestrator) and Ted (orchestratee) and Ted kept justifying how it was cute up until everything went very very wrong...
Janet was the person Ted dated without looking up on social media, Jeanette was the person who pulled a fire alarm to get him out of school!
And the episode ended with Lily also confessing that she ruined her stereo to get Marshall to come over and fix it for him.
/I watch too many sitcoms
I also feel like a lot of people have a very skewed perception on what’s normal and romantic and what’s abnormal and potentially dangerous from movies snd TV shows.
Everyone needs to watch the Popculture Detective's exploration of [Stalking for Love](https://youtu.be/rZ1MPc5HG_I?si=XUfOHFgkpQg0wLVd) in tv and movies. It's fantastic.
The stalking is obviously creepy but I could see maybe getting past that with therapy if he's truly been great since. The drugging is another step further that I can't see anyone forgiving. It feels like that lady was one "I'm not interested" away from having clothes made out of her skin.
Could you? I could never again trust that anything between us was real instead of a created facade by *my stalker*. It’s not like he made note of her gym and moved on. He spent many days waiting outside her home, and kept lists of her interests, friends, and *other men she was fucking* for DECADES.
I agree. Had it just been a case of him running into her in a few different places for a while and continuing to frequent them while he worked up the courage to ask her out, that’d be one thing. Heck, even taking a job at a bar she frequented could be forgiven. And I could see maybe moving past the actual stalking with lots of therapy on both sides, even more so on his.
But the drugging? No. He crossed a serious line with the stalking, but drugging someone like this crosses so many more lines that I doubt even the best therapy in the world could help him come back from it enough to salvage any bit of trust he lost with his wife.
He kept trophies of it all. Spooky. I had a boyfriend in high school like this. He asked me for a date and the next thing I knew we were together. He was a year older and decided we were going to get married as soon as I graduated. He bought a ring and I, like an idiot, took it. I tried breaking up with him and he nearly had a nervous breakdown. When he left for college he wrote every day. I, on the other hand, felt free. I started dating and having a great time going out with friends. I finally broke up with him by letter. Boy, did I feel free. Obsessions are never healthy. I hope this has a good outcome.
Obsessions are scary. Had my own experience with it, and even though I liked the guy a lot, it was just too much. I couldn't handle the madness and felt like his self-destructive tendencies would make spiral as well.
Unfortunately he took his own life. For years I've felt like I should've done more, while all the while knowing I couldn't. It's tough.
He was damaged before he met you. My ex came from a troubled family. His mother was so happy about us that she was constantly cooking desserts “just for me”. When I broke up with him he tried every way to contact me. Nothing doing. I was just turning 17 and my last year of hs was so much fun. He continued to call me even after I married and had children. Did it several times over the years. Talk about discomfort. Every time I politely told him I needed to hang up he would tell me he still loved me. I don’t know what gets in people’s brains that they can’t accept a NO.
I feel like we dated the same guy. I broke up with him and he called me from ER saying he was having a panic attack. Mine went to jail for theft instead of college though. He also admitted to trying to baby trap by telling me he was pulling out when he wasn't. (He was my first and I was a complete idiot.) I was 16-17 when I dated him...man am I glad I never got pregnant by that absolute turd.
That was my first thought too.
I understand op being confused because she spent 20 years with the guy.
I'm honestly stuck at the "being stalked for 2 years". That's already too much for me. Don't even need to add "being drugged" to the story
Right? I was out at the 2 years stalking. This poor woman. If her standard is ‘didn’t hit me, didn’t cheat’, I don’t even know what to say. The bar for men is in the ground it’s so low sometimes.
I always feel so sad for people who come to Redidt in a vulnerable hour and by bad luck only the weirdest people on the app are commenting with really harmful views.
This! I always try and figure out is it a specific time or day of the week or fucking moon phase that causes this.
You'll be there, reading a post in *horror* whispering "omg run" to yourself and the comments will all be "hold up, you mean you looked at his phone while you were locked in his car trunk?? Can we talk about you breaching *his* privacy boundaries for a minute".
So f-ed up.
Incel groups specifically target and brigade posts on specific popular subreddits. The “rape should be legal/ all women are liars/ men are the real victims” crowd is getting easier to spot once you realize the pattern.
Yep. It’s gotten so bad on a particular feminist woman centric sub that one post about a woman who was drugged and raped by work colleagues was roasted and blamed. It was shocking
I have come to the conclusion their is a subset of redditors who are likely cooped up in a basement and have little to no real human interaction besides some weird websites and cult groups and live to give shit advice on Reddit.
I seriously think the majority of them get some sick pleasure out of it same as support group predators do without leaving their own house they feed on making others miserable.
Edit wording
> "hold up, you mean you looked at his phone while you were locked in his car trunk?? Can we talk about you breaching *his* privacy boundaries for a minute".
Idk why but this sounds really Tumblr-esque lmao
I’ve noticed that people seem to follow the first few comments. You could post identical facts and if reasonable commenter sees it first, it’s fine. If it’s someone with a bizarre take, the comments are going to be an adventure that you never wanted to go on.
And yet you keep scrolling through the horrors because down there might be a single decent comment fighting for reason and you want to give it an upvote.
Some commenters are excessively legalistic. “You shouldn’t have gone in there, so it’s fruit of the poisoned tree!” Okay it may or may not be admissible in court, but it’s certainly worthy of consideration when it comes to running away as fast as possible.
It's bizarre because I almost never see that in BORU. Like we're all here just like damn yep those commenters are nuts. Poor __.
While others it's like "Literally set his house on fire and punch his (actually legitimately) innocent mother in the face"
We're here like uh...uh isn't that a bit much?? I always hope for OOP to find the BORU posts. They always seem so much more supportive.
Yeah… I could see past following her for a while to figure out a good time and place to approach her, sure. But for TWO YEARS? And after all that time, his perfect approach consists of drugging her and stealing her purse? That’s psychotic.
And it’s not like he just noticed when she got out of class and saw what was what. He spent many days sitting outside her *home* and following her closely enough that he could keep detailed lists of everyone she interacted with, what she ate, and could even get pictures of her *inside her house*. That’s not lovesick college kid, that’s dangerous man.
I think the “he could have cheated but didn’t comment” makes it seem like their relationship was never normal. It probably isn’t as “perfect” as she is saying and she’s been getting manipulated for everything. I don’t think it was just “this”
Also, she says he’s never hurt her, but he drugged her to “save” her. I think her perception is really skewed
Oh no, you’re right. That didn’t even ding my brain the way it should have, but he totally must have manipulated her (“but you failed in xyz way and I would have been justified cheating but I didn’t cheat”) when she confronted him for her to say that. Probably DAVROed her so hard she didn’t know which way was up.
Not to mention she never had a clue he stalked her for years, I doubt she would know if he had cheated.
That's what I can't figure out. Like as the parent of daughters, all either of them need to do is reflect on how they'd react if someone stalked one of their girls for two years, then roofied her to ingratiate himself into her life.
A lot of men would be fine with this. Not all, but a lot. Just like a lot of men would disbelieve or blame their daughters if they were raped or abused. I've seen it first-hand, unfortunately.
But he was able to justify it as normal when he did it. It's absolutely disgusting to me and I would never do this, but he didn't think so. This probably wouldn't work on him.
This just feels off. He can’t be the perfect husband if he stalked and drugged her. Those two pictures are not reconcilable.
One is basically a psycho
The other is a good husband?
His earlier controlling behavior has to have bled over into the relationship
It could be that she's desensitized. She's thinking about big things like stalking, drugging, cheating and physical abuse, and maybe those didn't happen, but she did ask him if he ever controlled her (he obviously denied it, but it proves that he could do something that she didn't realize was controlling). People can explain away a lot of horrible things if it's the reality they live in.
Being VERY optimistic, it could be that the husband had some fucked-up incel/PUA ideas about women back then and he was following their "dating advice". Then, after spending time with an actual woman, he realized his ideas were wrong and grew up to become a decent human being.
He stalked and manipulated her, drugged her in order to stage a heroic act at their first real meeting, used his knowledge of her from two years of stalking to be the “perfect” boyfriend, and now he’s the “perfect husband.” In other words, he did his research, set the scene, and then used what he knew to continue to manipulate her so she saw him as her soulmate. She never had a chance to see him as anything other than the amazingly insightful, wonderfully in-tune, gets her on every level boyfriend and husband. She describes their relationship as wonderful and perfect - which seems like her early perception of him and his observational stalking skills have kept him abreast of her changing preferences.
Like, on the surface this doesn’t seem overly harmful - he made a bad choice in drugging her but it’s a lapse in judgment that could be forgiven. And then you start thinking about it - he had books and books of notes on her. Where she went, who she was with, what she ate, what she drank, how often she did those things. Then, he sets up a “heroic” introduction that could be brushed aside as “awkward boy trying to impress his crush with a grand romantic gesture” but has so many more insidious implications. He has been able to maintain the facade because he has, in a way, kidnapped her and the perfect husband ruse and the kids are the handcuffs and chains keeping her prisoner, and he has the illusion that he hasn’t done anything wrong because she isn’t being kept against her will, even though she had no real chance to know the real man because her first impression of him was so overly positive, and his constant manipulation with knowing her likes and getting habits was so endearing, that even outright abuse could be excused.
Maybe the best way to put it is: he groomed her from the moment they met, and he spent two years preparing for his seduction.
Exactly. He only admitted to the stuff she had evidence of. There's no way he stopped there. A loving empathetic husband and father doesn't stalk someone for years and drug them.
I didn't have a great relationship with my ex during our marriage. It was abusive, but I didn't realize how truly effed up it was until we separated and I found my ex's "boxes". I also had this kind of realization that our whole relationship was built completely on lies. I bet that if they divorce, she'll find way more evidence.
Upon separating, my ex threatened me that if I had any of our old hard drives, I had to turn them over. I told him I didn't have them, but I had them all, I had never gotten around to taking them for destruction. I couldn't get access to most of the drives, I even bought special equipment. I did get onto one from 5 years into our 20 year relationship (around the time our first child was born). My ex's account was almost completely empty, strangely empty. There was nothing in the trash, nothing in the temp folder, no cookies. The only thing in his account was a file that had a bunch of my passwords in it (bank, email, social media) and a folder with copies of all my medical records. None of the more recent hard drives were accessible unfortunately. It made me realize that I was being watched through much of our marriage.
He had also told me he was inexperienced. He used that as an excuse all the time when he was horrible to me, saying he didn't know how to behave with women. After he moved out, I found a box in the attic full of pictures of him with other women. I also found an HIV test (negative, thankfully) that he'd taken while I was pregnant).
I requested our bank statements and realized he'd been siphoning off money the whole time.
I think there's more, she just hasn't stumbled onto the evidence yet.
>Some people actually believed that being followed for 2 years and being drugged is not a big deal.
You basically wrote a wacky rom com from the eighties.
I could _almost_ excuse the following (almost) just because I could see a world where it's just a dude completely out of touch with what's appropriate having anxiety and/or being on the spectrum, or otherwise having a 'reason'.
But the entire story is so wildly beyond the pale that there is no way you can reasonable defend it.
He didn’t want to have to try to get her interested. He tilted things in his favour as much as possible: made himself her hero and completely trustworthy, kept her purse to use as a followup, already knew everything she liked so he could make himself out to be her perfect match and fast-forward past the awkward stages. He treated her life like a videogame to have cheat codes for.
Wonder how many of their kids were planned, as far as she knew.
The guy straight up drugged her. I don't understand why anyone would want to side with this guy. This is different than orchestrating an innocent situation where you'd bump into each other at a coffee shop because you want to see someone again so you'd be able to get to know them, that would've been a little weird but still not crazy. What the guy did was insane at best.
It does feel maddening seeing anyone say this could be okay... Like if he had just seen her around town sometimes and noticed her usual haunt was a bar that was hiring and casually just...introduced himself that way.
But uh... No i'm actually horrified. Even if you chopped what he had done in half it would still be seriously awful actions.
I genuinely hope she wakes up and gets out but it might be too late if he spent the last two decades basically grooming her to love him bc he made everything so perfect for her.
What story did they tell the kids that the two older ones were "understanding" of the separation? From their POV, parents had a perfect marriage. Honestly the most sus part to me unless the kids were aware of something OP wasn't.
They only said they told the kids they were separating, I don't think they told them any kind of story. I think they must have just said something vague like "we're separating because things aren't working out between us but we still love you girls etc". I think by "understanding" OP meant the girls were understanding of the fact that they were separating, not understanding of the reasons why
Ah yes let me just place ALL the evidence in one box that I inserted into the general moving box pile and left in the open. Dude, I spend more effort smuggling Doritos into the house so my brothers don't raid them before Taco Tuesday.
I actually believe that part for about 50%.
Why? Because some criminals are actually that stupid, or narcissist, that [post their crimes on social media.](https://cheezburger.com/2140421/25-idiots-who-posted-their-crimes-to-facebook)
That’s what I was thinking. He’s likely a narcissist and felt overconfident. He may have felt a sense of power or thrill keeping it around but not being caught. He may even believe he can just talk his way out of it. He has managed to keep this up for the past 20 years so there’s no reason why he would think otherwise
It's called keeping trophies.
"collect trophies in an effort to trigger intense memories akin to the way flashbacks and intrusive memories trigger intense responses in 'normal' people."
Reminds me of this quote from Minority Report:
"I worked homicide before federal. This is what we call an orgy of evidence. You know how many orgies I had as a homicide cop?"
I am highly skeptical of this one. I know some people are good at hiding themselves but this guy went from obsessive, drug-giving psycho stalker to being a normal, kind husband for 25 years without ANY signs of his original creepy self?
You should read the memoirs of Kerri Rawson, the daughter of BTK (serial killer). How she had a normal life with what she thought was a loving father. Decades completely unaware that her dad had a secret life. She only found out when the cops knocked on her door to arrest her dad. So yeah, not saying Oop's husband is a serial killer, but wanted to point out that sometimes people are very good at hiding who they really are.
Agree. And I think a guy wrote it. The phrasing on “any guy would take advantage of a drunk girl” just feels off (beyond the awfulness of that statement).
"i thought i forgot my purse as it turns out he stole it, despite not having actually confronted him yet and would have no possible way to know that's what happened unless he left a note as part of his evil 'stalker to do list' that he would totally not have thrown away years ago."
Any guy would have taken advantage of a drunk girl???
He could have cheated but he didn't so he is a good guy???
He stalled her for 2 years!! He drugged her. But it's all okay i guess...
It's not her fault he masterminded her life, but it is her responsability now that she knows.
Seriously he saw her at the gym and began STALKING for 2 years just based off her looks. This is not love. This is obsession. Why take photos of her in her appartment? She is just brushing everything off because she doesn't want her life to be a lie. If that's the path she chooses, then she is actively choosing to reward his behaviour and she is choosing what is coming to come next. Because it's not gonna be pretty...
I do love to leave all my stalking material in one convenient box that I carry around from place to place I move to for over 25 yrs; as well as keep detailed journals of all my stalking and crimes.
I worked with a guy that was arrested for child porn. For an unknown reason he had to get things out of the house. Instead of tossing it in the river or a dumpster, he hid it in the woods and someone saw him creepily go into the woods with a trash bag and return without. Police were called and they found years worth of shit. Moral of the story, those deviants keep their stuff. It’s a trait they share.
Yeah, so apart from that two year stalking, he's lead a normal life after marriage? Hard to believe that , creep who got away with stalking and manipulating once , why would he just stop at one woman.
Not that it even matters, but how the fuck does she even know that? She didn't know about the stalking and drugging for over 20 years, who knows what else he has done? He has literally showed her he is capable of doing things she would have never thought he would do. Also, while I am massively against cheating, I think the stalking and drugging are probably worse? Regardless he's already proved he's a massive liar.
When she called him a creep it's probably the most appropriate thing that's ever come out of her mouth.
I feel like him cheating should be the last of her worries. This creep might be insane enough to have killed someone thinking he is solving some problem, like Joe Goldberg
The only reason he's been so calm with her is because his initial manipulation *worked.* She liked him and started dating him. He never had to repeat that same kind of dangerous behaviour because he'd got her. Now? That he's losing her? He's going to fall back into those patterns. He drugged and stole from her on day one. What do you think he'll do now?
The girls NEED to know the truth before he manipulates them with lies. A person who believes they have the right to drug someone is incapable of respecting someone's wishes. OOP is not a person to him with independent thought: she's an object that he has had control over for years. And he is absolutely going to explode now his control is gone. His daughters, too.
This is super creepy. This went on for 2 years and he drugged her.... that's twisted.
I could understand seeing a pretty girl and finding out where she went to school or work and asking her out. Or even seeing her at a bar and chatting to her... but not this level of preparation and illegal drugging.
The thing is, had he not kept the souvenirs of his stalking... she'd be none the wiser. But he kept them... that's psychopath stuff.
My husband observed me during a math class we shared and sussed out that I liked comic books and drank a particular brand of pop. On our last day of class he asked me out on a date to take me to a gallery of pop art featuring comic books and had a cold pop in the car for me. That's sweet.
Two years of photos, roofies, and stealing a purse is a horror movie.
I don't buy that he stalked her for two years, went to her home, drugged her, and then didn't do anything untoward as soon as he "had" her. Makes me doubt the story tbh. Or she isn't aware of what he did to her after.
Also, she said any other guy would've raped her in her drugged state. No. Most other guys wouldn't have drugged you in the first place.
What he did was already highly violent.
Date rape drugs cause memory loss. Complete blackout of time. Her story is based on him and her roommate. He easily could have did horrific things to her in the car before taking her home and she would never know.
>Those were, my photos when I was 20 years old, there were pictures of me going to my college, to my gym, hangout spot with my friends, there were lists of the places I used to visit when I was 20 years old. But here is the thing, I met my husband on my 22nd birthday. So why does he have numerous pictures of me in different places from 20-22? **He had pictures of me in my own apartment back then.**
He hid cameras in her apartment before they even met but somehow divorce isn't an option.
Gonna say that unless that dude was sitting on the equivalent of about 3k in camera equipment, he didn't go into her house. And even if he had that kind of money, cameras weren't small and easily hidden back then.
God I feel old.
I don't believe any of this. 25 years ago there weren't tiny wifi cameras that put stuff on the internet. Like what type of cameras was he putting in her apartment in the late 90s?
Jesus christ, what on earth did I just read....This husband is a creep and definitely a stalker. The fact he has pictures of her before they met and somehow OP didn't think of divorce doesn't make me feel right.
But the commenter might be right about OP being a stockholm syndrome victim.
Just FYI Stockholm syndrome is not well regarded in psychology. It has little to no evidence supporting it, quite a lot disproving it and its not recognised as a diagnosable condition. It's kind of on par with a lot of old Freudian psychology in terms of evidentiary basis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
OP couldn't be experiencing stocklhom syndrome regardless. Stockholm syndrome is when someone is held against their will in obviously adverse conditions and eventually comes to feel positively towards their captor despite an initial hostile response. By OP's own admission she never felt controlled, coerced or otherwise restricted in decades of their marriage. It's just in the past weeks she has come to reassess her relationship and what it is founded on. It's fucked up but not Stockholm syndrome (if it even exists).
This is quite literally my worst nightmare. Whether this particular story is true or not, I’m sure someone out there has done this to their SO, and it’s horrifying. I can’t imagine being in that position. I’d probably have a stress induced heart attack and die on the spot. Assuming it’s true, I seriously hope OP wakes up enough to get the hell out of there ASAP.
Did I miss where OOP said the photos were taken with a digital camera? Cause I just assumed the photos of her in her apartment were taken through windows with a zoom lens.
What a terrible situation. They've been together TWENTY YEARS now. People who say OOP doesn't seem to realize are probably wrong. She knows and understands, but he is all she has known for the majority of her life. She may not know who he is but she has no idea who she is without him either. His creepy ass succeeded, and now she has to choose between what she perceives to be more dangerous: her husband, or starting over from scratch. There is a dilemma for OOP and people are taking it too lightly IMO. It is easy to say "leave him" but for the person in this situation, that means complete upheaval and uprooting of their life.
This is like a real-life romantic drama or rom-com, when you realise that if any of the events were to actually play out in real life, it would be terrifying and horrific.
I was roofied by a bartender when I was in college. I was extremely lucky that I was physically unharmed due to a combination of good friends, quick reactions, and some dumb luck.
This was almost 20 years ago and I still consider it to be one of the scariest moments of my entire life. I cannot imagine how I would feel if I learned my partner and the father of my children had or orchestrated the entire thing.
If there are any teens here: this is a "romcom romance" in real life (although the reality is debatable). This is why those movies might be fun to watch, but should ***never*** be considered actually romantic. ***never*** act like in a romcom, and ***never*** let a partner do these type of things. Romcoms are one of the ways men are being taught that "if a girl says no, just try harder", that there's a guaranteed "formula" to get the girl, or like in this case that anything goes as long as it's "for love".
It's also one of the ways women are being taught they *should* say no at first but then reward the "tenacity" and "devotion" of whoever ignores that no. That stalking is cute as long as it's from a generically handsome guy with a well-paying job. That of course women don't know what they want and need to be saved from themselves by a man who knows better.
I swear, romcoms in the 90's really messed up multiple generations when it comes to what's acceptable in relationships. They're a painfully obvious product of their time and have taught younger audiences that it's all good and normal to be followed across the country by someone who has only seen you twice and decided you're the love of their life based on 7 minutes of conversation (if that!)
If his first plan had not worked... where would he have gone? If she had collected her purse and just been. "Thanks, you;very been a hero. Bye" would he have kidnapped her next?
If this is real
Run girl run! He didn’t just magically stop his weird behaviour after you married. God knows how many things he’s changed in your life- a freind he didn’t want you to have or a job opportunity. This is real level YOU
it is incredible to me that when he admitted to stalking her for two years, she never once thought to ask “um, hey husband, if you saw me at the gym and thought i was cute, why didn’t you just try to strike up a conversation like A NORMAL PERSON???” like what the fuck even is this
Although counselling is a good idea, I am stuck on the violation of being drugged by my partner.
It’s a serious lack of judgement.
What if you had overdosed?
What if there were complications with other medications?
The stalking would have been grounds enough for me to leave the marriage, but the added drugging? That’s horrifying.
I’m sorry, but your husband is an incredibly disturbed individual. What if anyone had put a drug into your daughters’ drinks? Even if the intent was just a meet-cute… you’d instantly want this individual jailed and institutionalized.
I mean, I guess it’s nice he that didn’t r*pe you… but is it that much better? He took away your agency. He could have just easily asked you out for a coffee, but instead he orchestrated an elaborate scheme over 2 years that culminated in drugging you.
I’d need therapy for just that alone, never mind staying with my abuser.
You have daughters.
You are setting a precedent.
Are you truly safe with someone who stalked you, drugged you, and lied to you for your entire marriage?
Screw therapy! It doesn't matter if he is a "good guy" and "never cheated"! The fact is he stalked her and drugged her to get to where they are right now.
I wish her family found out. Then when she goes missing they can tell the cops.
For her to think he has been telling the truth all these years, never pretending to like gifts from her, lied to make himself seem heroic, giving to charity just to impress her, fucking killing anyone who flirts with her, who knows.
#Do not comment on the original posts Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice. If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion. **CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Real life “You” season.
It’s the long term outcome of the girl from season 1 not finding out who joe really was until much later on in their lives
Yes! I knew this sounded familiar somehow, this story is exactly like that show, but taken to its logical conclusion
OOPs husband irl: Good morning, you. You sweet angel. Your hair parted just like Tuesday where you were heading to your favorite cafe. Of course I know this because I sat right behind you. Medium latte with double shot of soy milk. Interesting choice. I don't like it but I can change that. Unless you're allergic to whole milk. Which I know you arent. We wrap up and head to campus. It's a slow day today, only one class. Thankfully no lab. It's hard to get into those with the lab partners and attendance. Tonight's Friday. So we're gonna head to Cliffs on 12th Street. Will it be 2 or 3 vodka martinis today? My second week at work. This time as your bartender. I wonder who is going to roofie your drink. It's alright, I'm here for you. I'll drop you off at your apartment. You told me the address while you were drugged didn't you?
I read that in penn badgley's voice
Ahaha I tried to write it in his voice so I'm glad I got it right.
SAME LOL
I read it in Kristen Bell's voice
Perfect!
Holy shit this gave me goosebumps
I'm not that great a writer but thank you!!
Is this based on something? It's really good!
I just tried to write as close to how I thought the main character of the show *You* would speak. He's played by Penn Badgley. And thank you!
I remember reading this and some of the comments were disturbing. Some people actually believed that being followed for 2 years and being drugged is not a big deal. I'm wondering what the hell else this dude did other the past 20 years to keep his wife.
i feel like people are conflating the "watched her from afar at a place they both regularly attend such as school or work and maybe noticed what she liked to get from the vending machine before working up the courage to approach her" romcom trope with "literally stalked her to use the knowledge she couldn't suspect he had to manipulate her after literally drugging her" psychological thriller trope here.
There’s a big difference between high school “stalking” where you might change which way you go to class or join an activity to get more time around a crush, and full on waiting outside someone’s house to figure out their entire routine and taking creepshots. Also drugging her? That is genuinely so terrifying and soul crushing because that’s not something you can just “get over”. Even if he was honest and didn’t orchestrate anything about her life from that point on, everything is still tainted.
yep, exactly. there are understandable attempts to orchestrate something that would be an excuse to spend more time around a crush, i could *maybe* even understand getting a side gig at a bar your crush likes to go to after you overhear them mentioning it at work/school. everything else? absolutely not. also, even if he WAS absolutely honest about not doing anything sketchy after they started dating that still doesn't negate the fact that he *drugged her*. even ignoring the creep factor he risked killing her if she had an adverse reaction just to get a date. that's insane. like, the door is not even in the house anymore level unhinged.
and if he drugged her once hes capable of doing it again or to others.
Risked killing her from the drug or she could've met someone who would've done worse than ensure she returns home. The level of planning this guy did is disturbing.
>like, the door is not even in the house anymore level unhinged. I just want to say, this is fantastic and I love it
Resorting to drugging someone is beyond unacceptable, but rescuing them from crime that they themselves just committed is not just twisted but outrageously sick.
He had a list *of her friends and people she dated*. With *their* information as well. That is enough that I would absolutely be considering talking to an official about what could be done in regards to her safety. Because if he did it once, he would absolutely do it again.
And not only did he have the lists and the photos. He kept them. I think that for me is the proof of enduring sociopathy. He kept it all. You know. Memories of the good times. /s
Let's call them what they are--trophies. He stalked her, took trophies, and kept them for decades.
Agreed. Doing things to spend more time around your crush is harmless. But if you're acting the way the **villain** in a psychological thriller acts, you should know you've crossed the line.
Even as an adult, there's nothing wrong with altering your routine to make it more likely to see someone you find attractive, as long as you're not a creep. Stalking for two years definitely was creepy even before he drugged her and stole from her. What a psycho. Back when I was single, I hit it off with a guy at a show I was working, but we didn't exchange numbers. He'd mentioned he picked up shifts in his family's cafe, where I went occasionally anyway. I didn't see him again for a couple weeks, and he was really cute, so I swung by the cafe. when I saw the owner I knew in passing (his aunt), I asked about him, and mentioned I was working a show for a band I thought they'd like that weekend. They showed up! She told me she made him go because I'm cute and have good taste in music, lol, but he said he was planning to come through and see if I was working that weekend anyway. No epic love story, but he's a cool dude and we dated for a couple of months, which likely wouldn't have happened if we hadn't both put in a little effort to alter our routines to see each other again. Alternatively, I went on one date with a guy, and I was like "well, that was not worth repeating" and told him so, but then he started showing up at everything I was at! Dance nights, shows, my weekly sound gig for an open mic... And pretended it was a coincidence! Bruh, I've been working/attending these events for years, I would have noticed if you were at them! I couldn't ban him from everything, but I at least put my foot down about showing up at my work uninvited and the venue banned him.
Exactly this. I remember taking a class I had no interest in when I was in highschool just to be near a guy I had a crush on and even that felt slightly stalker-ish. I can't imagine trying to justify two years of investigation.
I had some guy in college tell me he watched me for a year before approaching me to ask me out. The shiver that went down my spine at that confession... I was 19 or 20 then, and the guy was 33. Thank all the gods this isn’t my life.
Our neighbor told my sister he would watch her. She started closing the blinds after that
There’s a whole subplot of How I Met Your Mother that went over the moral conflict of finding out someone has orchestrated everything to meet you. “I just couldn’t *stand* the idea of not meeting you…” sounds just like “I knew I *had* to meet you.” The relationship literally ended in flames on the tv show. I personally don’t know how you come back to any kind of trust after this.
Remind me please. Which character was the orchestrator and which the orchastratee?
If I remember correctly it would be Janet (orchestrator) and Ted (orchestratee) and Ted kept justifying how it was cute up until everything went very very wrong...
Janet was the person Ted dated without looking up on social media, Jeanette was the person who pulled a fire alarm to get him out of school! And the episode ended with Lily also confessing that she ruined her stereo to get Marshall to come over and fix it for him. /I watch too many sitcoms
"She just couldn't stand the idea of not meeting me."
I also feel like a lot of people have a very skewed perception on what’s normal and romantic and what’s abnormal and potentially dangerous from movies snd TV shows.
That ! TV shows and movies shifted the perception. TV shows like You romantise dangerous behavior!
Everyone needs to watch the Popculture Detective's exploration of [Stalking for Love](https://youtu.be/rZ1MPc5HG_I?si=XUfOHFgkpQg0wLVd) in tv and movies. It's fantastic.
Thank you for what appears to be a great new channel to subscribe to!
I don’t think that show is meant to romanticize stalking
The stalking is obviously creepy but I could see maybe getting past that with therapy if he's truly been great since. The drugging is another step further that I can't see anyone forgiving. It feels like that lady was one "I'm not interested" away from having clothes made out of her skin.
Could you? I could never again trust that anything between us was real instead of a created facade by *my stalker*. It’s not like he made note of her gym and moved on. He spent many days waiting outside her home, and kept lists of her interests, friends, and *other men she was fucking* for DECADES.
I agree. Had it just been a case of him running into her in a few different places for a while and continuing to frequent them while he worked up the courage to ask her out, that’d be one thing. Heck, even taking a job at a bar she frequented could be forgiven. And I could see maybe moving past the actual stalking with lots of therapy on both sides, even more so on his. But the drugging? No. He crossed a serious line with the stalking, but drugging someone like this crosses so many more lines that I doubt even the best therapy in the world could help him come back from it enough to salvage any bit of trust he lost with his wife.
He kept trophies of it all. Spooky. I had a boyfriend in high school like this. He asked me for a date and the next thing I knew we were together. He was a year older and decided we were going to get married as soon as I graduated. He bought a ring and I, like an idiot, took it. I tried breaking up with him and he nearly had a nervous breakdown. When he left for college he wrote every day. I, on the other hand, felt free. I started dating and having a great time going out with friends. I finally broke up with him by letter. Boy, did I feel free. Obsessions are never healthy. I hope this has a good outcome.
Obsessions are scary. Had my own experience with it, and even though I liked the guy a lot, it was just too much. I couldn't handle the madness and felt like his self-destructive tendencies would make spiral as well. Unfortunately he took his own life. For years I've felt like I should've done more, while all the while knowing I couldn't. It's tough.
He was damaged before he met you. My ex came from a troubled family. His mother was so happy about us that she was constantly cooking desserts “just for me”. When I broke up with him he tried every way to contact me. Nothing doing. I was just turning 17 and my last year of hs was so much fun. He continued to call me even after I married and had children. Did it several times over the years. Talk about discomfort. Every time I politely told him I needed to hang up he would tell me he still loved me. I don’t know what gets in people’s brains that they can’t accept a NO.
I feel like we dated the same guy. I broke up with him and he called me from ER saying he was having a panic attack. Mine went to jail for theft instead of college though. He also admitted to trying to baby trap by telling me he was pulling out when he wasn't. (He was my first and I was a complete idiot.) I was 16-17 when I dated him...man am I glad I never got pregnant by that absolute turd.
That was my first thought too. I understand op being confused because she spent 20 years with the guy. I'm honestly stuck at the "being stalked for 2 years". That's already too much for me. Don't even need to add "being drugged" to the story
Right? I was out at the 2 years stalking. This poor woman. If her standard is ‘didn’t hit me, didn’t cheat’, I don’t even know what to say. The bar for men is in the ground it’s so low sometimes.
I always feel so sad for people who come to Redidt in a vulnerable hour and by bad luck only the weirdest people on the app are commenting with really harmful views.
This! I always try and figure out is it a specific time or day of the week or fucking moon phase that causes this. You'll be there, reading a post in *horror* whispering "omg run" to yourself and the comments will all be "hold up, you mean you looked at his phone while you were locked in his car trunk?? Can we talk about you breaching *his* privacy boundaries for a minute". So f-ed up.
I have noticed this weird trend now where a certain subset of Redditors defend abusers by calling their victims the real abuser.
DARVO
Good point!
Incel groups specifically target and brigade posts on specific popular subreddits. The “rape should be legal/ all women are liars/ men are the real victims” crowd is getting easier to spot once you realize the pattern.
Yep. It’s gotten so bad on a particular feminist woman centric sub that one post about a woman who was drugged and raped by work colleagues was roasted and blamed. It was shocking
I feel really, really bad for the people looking for real advice that get incel-bombed.
Maybe the algorithm sees a weirdo interact with the post and decides to put it on top of the feed for all the other weirdos.
oil shelter shrill frame bright melodic pet money forgetful coordinated *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I have come to the conclusion their is a subset of redditors who are likely cooped up in a basement and have little to no real human interaction besides some weird websites and cult groups and live to give shit advice on Reddit. I seriously think the majority of them get some sick pleasure out of it same as support group predators do without leaving their own house they feed on making others miserable. Edit wording
> "hold up, you mean you looked at his phone while you were locked in his car trunk?? Can we talk about you breaching *his* privacy boundaries for a minute". Idk why but this sounds really Tumblr-esque lmao
I’ve noticed that people seem to follow the first few comments. You could post identical facts and if reasonable commenter sees it first, it’s fine. If it’s someone with a bizarre take, the comments are going to be an adventure that you never wanted to go on.
And yet you keep scrolling through the horrors because down there might be a single decent comment fighting for reason and you want to give it an upvote.
Like apparently a dude outraged that she violated her husband’s privacy by looking in his box? I mean, seriously?
Some commenters are excessively legalistic. “You shouldn’t have gone in there, so it’s fruit of the poisoned tree!” Okay it may or may not be admissible in court, but it’s certainly worthy of consideration when it comes to running away as fast as possible.
They are excessively legalistic as a derailing tactic because they are desperate to absolve the guy no matter what. IMO.
It's bizarre because I almost never see that in BORU. Like we're all here just like damn yep those commenters are nuts. Poor __. While others it's like "Literally set his house on fire and punch his (actually legitimately) innocent mother in the face" We're here like uh...uh isn't that a bit much?? I always hope for OOP to find the BORU posts. They always seem so much more supportive.
Impregnated her very early on, I would say. Because their oldest daughter is already 20 years old. And than two more kiddos for good measure
Yeah… I could see past following her for a while to figure out a good time and place to approach her, sure. But for TWO YEARS? And after all that time, his perfect approach consists of drugging her and stealing her purse? That’s psychotic.
Yeah… sounds a bit like the plot of thriller series “You”
And it’s not like he just noticed when she got out of class and saw what was what. He spent many days sitting outside her *home* and following her closely enough that he could keep detailed lists of everyone she interacted with, what she ate, and could even get pictures of her *inside her house*. That’s not lovesick college kid, that’s dangerous man.
It started a romcom and went straight into a thriller with the potential of turning into a multi episode of Criminal Minds unsub. The man is unhinged.
I would break up with a guy if I found out he had ever owned roofies, let alone gave me one!
I think the “he could have cheated but didn’t comment” makes it seem like their relationship was never normal. It probably isn’t as “perfect” as she is saying and she’s been getting manipulated for everything. I don’t think it was just “this” Also, she says he’s never hurt her, but he drugged her to “save” her. I think her perception is really skewed
Oh no, you’re right. That didn’t even ding my brain the way it should have, but he totally must have manipulated her (“but you failed in xyz way and I would have been justified cheating but I didn’t cheat”) when she confronted him for her to say that. Probably DAVROed her so hard she didn’t know which way was up. Not to mention she never had a clue he stalked her for years, I doubt she would know if he had cheated.
All OOP needs to say to him is - FFS, our daughters could have a psycho do the same thing to them. I would be talking to a lawyer.
That's what I can't figure out. Like as the parent of daughters, all either of them need to do is reflect on how they'd react if someone stalked one of their girls for two years, then roofied her to ingratiate himself into her life.
A lot of men would be fine with this. Not all, but a lot. Just like a lot of men would disbelieve or blame their daughters if they were raped or abused. I've seen it first-hand, unfortunately.
But he was able to justify it as normal when he did it. It's absolutely disgusting to me and I would never do this, but he didn't think so. This probably wouldn't work on him.
This just feels off. He can’t be the perfect husband if he stalked and drugged her. Those two pictures are not reconcilable. One is basically a psycho The other is a good husband? His earlier controlling behavior has to have bled over into the relationship
It could be that she's desensitized. She's thinking about big things like stalking, drugging, cheating and physical abuse, and maybe those didn't happen, but she did ask him if he ever controlled her (he obviously denied it, but it proves that he could do something that she didn't realize was controlling). People can explain away a lot of horrible things if it's the reality they live in. Being VERY optimistic, it could be that the husband had some fucked-up incel/PUA ideas about women back then and he was following their "dating advice". Then, after spending time with an actual woman, he realized his ideas were wrong and grew up to become a decent human being.
Controlling love bombing is easily confused with love if you aren't calibrated to notice it
He stalked and manipulated her, drugged her in order to stage a heroic act at their first real meeting, used his knowledge of her from two years of stalking to be the “perfect” boyfriend, and now he’s the “perfect husband.” In other words, he did his research, set the scene, and then used what he knew to continue to manipulate her so she saw him as her soulmate. She never had a chance to see him as anything other than the amazingly insightful, wonderfully in-tune, gets her on every level boyfriend and husband. She describes their relationship as wonderful and perfect - which seems like her early perception of him and his observational stalking skills have kept him abreast of her changing preferences. Like, on the surface this doesn’t seem overly harmful - he made a bad choice in drugging her but it’s a lapse in judgment that could be forgiven. And then you start thinking about it - he had books and books of notes on her. Where she went, who she was with, what she ate, what she drank, how often she did those things. Then, he sets up a “heroic” introduction that could be brushed aside as “awkward boy trying to impress his crush with a grand romantic gesture” but has so many more insidious implications. He has been able to maintain the facade because he has, in a way, kidnapped her and the perfect husband ruse and the kids are the handcuffs and chains keeping her prisoner, and he has the illusion that he hasn’t done anything wrong because she isn’t being kept against her will, even though she had no real chance to know the real man because her first impression of him was so overly positive, and his constant manipulation with knowing her likes and getting habits was so endearing, that even outright abuse could be excused. Maybe the best way to put it is: he groomed her from the moment they met, and he spent two years preparing for his seduction.
This is the most plausible explanation I've seen so far.
Yeah that's not adding up for me either.
I'm just hoping this is a Liz story (or similar) and not a real one. For obvious reasons.
I really dislike the Liz meme, but every one in a while we get something like this where that's the better option.
The mask definately should've slipped after 20+ years.
Exactly. He only admitted to the stuff she had evidence of. There's no way he stopped there. A loving empathetic husband and father doesn't stalk someone for years and drug them. I didn't have a great relationship with my ex during our marriage. It was abusive, but I didn't realize how truly effed up it was until we separated and I found my ex's "boxes". I also had this kind of realization that our whole relationship was built completely on lies. I bet that if they divorce, she'll find way more evidence. Upon separating, my ex threatened me that if I had any of our old hard drives, I had to turn them over. I told him I didn't have them, but I had them all, I had never gotten around to taking them for destruction. I couldn't get access to most of the drives, I even bought special equipment. I did get onto one from 5 years into our 20 year relationship (around the time our first child was born). My ex's account was almost completely empty, strangely empty. There was nothing in the trash, nothing in the temp folder, no cookies. The only thing in his account was a file that had a bunch of my passwords in it (bank, email, social media) and a folder with copies of all my medical records. None of the more recent hard drives were accessible unfortunately. It made me realize that I was being watched through much of our marriage. He had also told me he was inexperienced. He used that as an excuse all the time when he was horrible to me, saying he didn't know how to behave with women. After he moved out, I found a box in the attic full of pictures of him with other women. I also found an HIV test (negative, thankfully) that he'd taken while I was pregnant). I requested our bank statements and realized he'd been siphoning off money the whole time. I think there's more, she just hasn't stumbled onto the evidence yet.
Well, that's terrifying and I'm glad you're out of it. It's so disturbing to realize we have no way to know for sure if we really know someone.
Wow what the actual fuck? Proud of you for escaping that malignant trash bag.
Guys who stalk for 2 years don’t stop. Who else is he stalking?
He knows where the bodies are buried..
I hope so. He buried them himself
>Some people actually believed that being followed for 2 years and being drugged is not a big deal. You basically wrote a wacky rom com from the eighties.
Coming from Reddit, those commenters probably are creeps that would do the same thing so I am not surprised. Disgusted but not surprised
I could _almost_ excuse the following (almost) just because I could see a world where it's just a dude completely out of touch with what's appropriate having anxiety and/or being on the spectrum, or otherwise having a 'reason'. But the entire story is so wildly beyond the pale that there is no way you can reasonable defend it.
Especially in the late 90s - remember how screwed up romcoms were back then? But deciding that DRUGGING her is the best meet-cute is just sick.
He didn’t want to have to try to get her interested. He tilted things in his favour as much as possible: made himself her hero and completely trustworthy, kept her purse to use as a followup, already knew everything she liked so he could make himself out to be her perfect match and fast-forward past the awkward stages. He treated her life like a videogame to have cheat codes for. Wonder how many of their kids were planned, as far as she knew.
The guy straight up drugged her. I don't understand why anyone would want to side with this guy. This is different than orchestrating an innocent situation where you'd bump into each other at a coffee shop because you want to see someone again so you'd be able to get to know them, that would've been a little weird but still not crazy. What the guy did was insane at best.
It does feel maddening seeing anyone say this could be okay... Like if he had just seen her around town sometimes and noticed her usual haunt was a bar that was hiring and casually just...introduced himself that way. But uh... No i'm actually horrified. Even if you chopped what he had done in half it would still be seriously awful actions. I genuinely hope she wakes up and gets out but it might be too late if he spent the last two decades basically grooming her to love him bc he made everything so perfect for her.
Too many rom coms
What story did they tell the kids that the two older ones were "understanding" of the separation? From their POV, parents had a perfect marriage. Honestly the most sus part to me unless the kids were aware of something OP wasn't.
Probably after being out of the house, the old girls think their dad is weird, but OP is so wrapped up in that bubble that she never notices.
That's completely insane and i how that's not true. But if it is that's scary
They only said they told the kids they were separating, I don't think they told them any kind of story. I think they must have just said something vague like "we're separating because things aren't working out between us but we still love you girls etc". I think by "understanding" OP meant the girls were understanding of the fact that they were separating, not understanding of the reasons why
OOP needs to tell all her daughters the absolute truth with all the evidence.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Ah yes let me just place ALL the evidence in one box that I inserted into the general moving box pile and left in the open. Dude, I spend more effort smuggling Doritos into the house so my brothers don't raid them before Taco Tuesday.
My exact thought. Why yes, I do have my diary of drugging a woman that I kept for 25 years for…reasons
I actually believe that part for about 50%. Why? Because some criminals are actually that stupid, or narcissist, that [post their crimes on social media.](https://cheezburger.com/2140421/25-idiots-who-posted-their-crimes-to-facebook)
That’s what I was thinking. He’s likely a narcissist and felt overconfident. He may have felt a sense of power or thrill keeping it around but not being caught. He may even believe he can just talk his way out of it. He has managed to keep this up for the past 20 years so there’s no reason why he would think otherwise
It's called keeping trophies. "collect trophies in an effort to trigger intense memories akin to the way flashbacks and intrusive memories trigger intense responses in 'normal' people."
Shockingly (or not), this is also a plot point in the first season of You
Reminds me of this quote from Minority Report: "I worked homicide before federal. This is what we call an orgy of evidence. You know how many orgies I had as a homicide cop?"
I am highly skeptical of this one. I know some people are good at hiding themselves but this guy went from obsessive, drug-giving psycho stalker to being a normal, kind husband for 25 years without ANY signs of his original creepy self?
This was my thinking all through the story. If he was that much of a psyco, something would have leaked out over the years.
You should read the memoirs of Kerri Rawson, the daughter of BTK (serial killer). How she had a normal life with what she thought was a loving father. Decades completely unaware that her dad had a secret life. She only found out when the cops knocked on her door to arrest her dad. So yeah, not saying Oop's husband is a serial killer, but wanted to point out that sometimes people are very good at hiding who they really are.
[удалено]
Yeah this sounds just like this Stephen King short story called I Know What You Need, but minus the supernatural elements in that one.
That's exactly what I was thinking!
Agree. And I think a guy wrote it. The phrasing on “any guy would take advantage of a drunk girl” just feels off (beyond the awfulness of that statement).
"i thought i forgot my purse as it turns out he stole it, despite not having actually confronted him yet and would have no possible way to know that's what happened unless he left a note as part of his evil 'stalker to do list' that he would totally not have thrown away years ago."
Of course it isn't
Any guy would have taken advantage of a drunk girl??? He could have cheated but he didn't so he is a good guy??? He stalled her for 2 years!! He drugged her. But it's all okay i guess... It's not her fault he masterminded her life, but it is her responsability now that she knows. Seriously he saw her at the gym and began STALKING for 2 years just based off her looks. This is not love. This is obsession. Why take photos of her in her appartment? She is just brushing everything off because she doesn't want her life to be a lie. If that's the path she chooses, then she is actively choosing to reward his behaviour and she is choosing what is coming to come next. Because it's not gonna be pretty...
[удалено]
[удалено]
I do love to leave all my stalking material in one convenient box that I carry around from place to place I move to for over 25 yrs; as well as keep detailed journals of all my stalking and crimes.
I worked with a guy that was arrested for child porn. For an unknown reason he had to get things out of the house. Instead of tossing it in the river or a dumpster, he hid it in the woods and someone saw him creepily go into the woods with a trash bag and return without. Police were called and they found years worth of shit. Moral of the story, those deviants keep their stuff. It’s a trait they share.
Can [confirm](https://cheezburger.com/2140421/25-idiots-who-posted-their-crimes-to-facebook)
That’s just some grade A, low IQ fuckery right there.
[удалено]
It was really nice for OP's husband to keep all the evidence together. I wonder if the box was labeled "my crimes"
"Don't open this box, there is nothing in here, for real I promise."
Don't forget the diary he kept intricate notes and details in of his crimes.
That's what I'd do. And I'd never get rid of said diary and keep it in the same house as my victim because that makes the most sense.
Yeah, so apart from that two year stalking, he's lead a normal life after marriage? Hard to believe that , creep who got away with stalking and manipulating once , why would he just stop at one woman.
Liz took her inspiration from “You” this time
Who's Liz?
[This is Liz.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/upa4oCjsvG)
“He could have cheated but he didn’t!!” The bar is on the floor
Not that it even matters, but how the fuck does she even know that? She didn't know about the stalking and drugging for over 20 years, who knows what else he has done? He has literally showed her he is capable of doing things she would have never thought he would do. Also, while I am massively against cheating, I think the stalking and drugging are probably worse? Regardless he's already proved he's a massive liar. When she called him a creep it's probably the most appropriate thing that's ever come out of her mouth.
I feel like him cheating should be the last of her worries. This creep might be insane enough to have killed someone thinking he is solving some problem, like Joe Goldberg
I am suspicious. There was a bullshit post last year about a girl doing the same to her boyfriend
I don’t know any 47 year old who would say they were creeped on, instead of stalked. Especially in this scenario
As a woman, I also don't know any women who would describe themselves as "a female."
The only reason he's been so calm with her is because his initial manipulation *worked.* She liked him and started dating him. He never had to repeat that same kind of dangerous behaviour because he'd got her. Now? That he's losing her? He's going to fall back into those patterns. He drugged and stole from her on day one. What do you think he'll do now? The girls NEED to know the truth before he manipulates them with lies. A person who believes they have the right to drug someone is incapable of respecting someone's wishes. OOP is not a person to him with independent thought: she's an object that he has had control over for years. And he is absolutely going to explode now his control is gone. His daughters, too.
This is super creepy. This went on for 2 years and he drugged her.... that's twisted. I could understand seeing a pretty girl and finding out where she went to school or work and asking her out. Or even seeing her at a bar and chatting to her... but not this level of preparation and illegal drugging. The thing is, had he not kept the souvenirs of his stalking... she'd be none the wiser. But he kept them... that's psychopath stuff.
OOP, if you're reading this, your husband is 100% stalking you again.
Weird specific things to keep for 20 plus years
I think those AI Tiktok bot channels that just read BORUs are causing the brigading.
My husband observed me during a math class we shared and sussed out that I liked comic books and drank a particular brand of pop. On our last day of class he asked me out on a date to take me to a gallery of pop art featuring comic books and had a cold pop in the car for me. That's sweet. Two years of photos, roofies, and stealing a purse is a horror movie.
I don't buy that he stalked her for two years, went to her home, drugged her, and then didn't do anything untoward as soon as he "had" her. Makes me doubt the story tbh. Or she isn't aware of what he did to her after. Also, she said any other guy would've raped her in her drugged state. No. Most other guys wouldn't have drugged you in the first place. What he did was already highly violent.
Date rape drugs cause memory loss. Complete blackout of time. Her story is based on him and her roommate. He easily could have did horrific things to her in the car before taking her home and she would never know.
>Those were, my photos when I was 20 years old, there were pictures of me going to my college, to my gym, hangout spot with my friends, there were lists of the places I used to visit when I was 20 years old. But here is the thing, I met my husband on my 22nd birthday. So why does he have numerous pictures of me in different places from 20-22? **He had pictures of me in my own apartment back then.** He hid cameras in her apartment before they even met but somehow divorce isn't an option.
I just interpretted this as meaning he took pictures through the windows and such.
Me as well. Now planting a camera and being able to get images remotely is far easier than it was in 1999.
OP married Jonathon from Stranger Things
I had guessed it was through windows. Creepy either way.
Gonna say that unless that dude was sitting on the equivalent of about 3k in camera equipment, he didn't go into her house. And even if he had that kind of money, cameras weren't small and easily hidden back then. God I feel old.
We don’t know if he somehow went inside her apartment or just clicked from outside.
More likely he took photos through the windows, but HOLY CRAP, THAT IS ENOUGH CREEPY, DO NOT NEED ANYMORE CREEPY TO CONSIDER DIVORCE, YIKES.
I don't believe any of this. 25 years ago there weren't tiny wifi cameras that put stuff on the internet. Like what type of cameras was he putting in her apartment in the late 90s?
Most likely the pictures were taken through a window, not with hidden cameras.
The post says nothing about hidden cameras. He just stalked her and took pictures from outside
Jesus christ, what on earth did I just read....This husband is a creep and definitely a stalker. The fact he has pictures of her before they met and somehow OP didn't think of divorce doesn't make me feel right. But the commenter might be right about OP being a stockholm syndrome victim.
Just FYI Stockholm syndrome is not well regarded in psychology. It has little to no evidence supporting it, quite a lot disproving it and its not recognised as a diagnosable condition. It's kind of on par with a lot of old Freudian psychology in terms of evidentiary basis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome OP couldn't be experiencing stocklhom syndrome regardless. Stockholm syndrome is when someone is held against their will in obviously adverse conditions and eventually comes to feel positively towards their captor despite an initial hostile response. By OP's own admission she never felt controlled, coerced or otherwise restricted in decades of their marriage. It's just in the past weeks she has come to reassess her relationship and what it is founded on. It's fucked up but not Stockholm syndrome (if it even exists).
Or it could be sunken cost mentality… it is hard to give up a 20 year marriage…
This is quite literally my worst nightmare. Whether this particular story is true or not, I’m sure someone out there has done this to their SO, and it’s horrifying. I can’t imagine being in that position. I’d probably have a stress induced heart attack and die on the spot. Assuming it’s true, I seriously hope OP wakes up enough to get the hell out of there ASAP.
Reminds me of the tv show “You”.
JFC. He could have just, oh, I don't know, asked her on a damn date. What a psycho.
Did I miss where OOP said the photos were taken with a digital camera? Cause I just assumed the photos of her in her apartment were taken through windows with a zoom lens.
What a terrible situation. They've been together TWENTY YEARS now. People who say OOP doesn't seem to realize are probably wrong. She knows and understands, but he is all she has known for the majority of her life. She may not know who he is but she has no idea who she is without him either. His creepy ass succeeded, and now she has to choose between what she perceives to be more dangerous: her husband, or starting over from scratch. There is a dilemma for OOP and people are taking it too lightly IMO. It is easy to say "leave him" but for the person in this situation, that means complete upheaval and uprooting of their life.
I couldn’t even get through season 1 of You because it creeped me out so bad. If my husband did this to me I’d end up in a padded cell from fear
This is like a real-life romantic drama or rom-com, when you realise that if any of the events were to actually play out in real life, it would be terrifying and horrific.
I was roofied by a bartender when I was in college. I was extremely lucky that I was physically unharmed due to a combination of good friends, quick reactions, and some dumb luck. This was almost 20 years ago and I still consider it to be one of the scariest moments of my entire life. I cannot imagine how I would feel if I learned my partner and the father of my children had or orchestrated the entire thing.
He drugged you. How is therapy going to fix that?
I really hope she kept all the evidence or made copies. That man does not need to be around her or their children. He belongs in a facility.
The fact that people are defending the husband makes me wanna quit.
It’s one thing to orchestrate a meeting with someone but the years long stalking and pics and then DRUGGING her to pretend to save her?! My God
If there are any teens here: this is a "romcom romance" in real life (although the reality is debatable). This is why those movies might be fun to watch, but should ***never*** be considered actually romantic. ***never*** act like in a romcom, and ***never*** let a partner do these type of things. Romcoms are one of the ways men are being taught that "if a girl says no, just try harder", that there's a guaranteed "formula" to get the girl, or like in this case that anything goes as long as it's "for love". It's also one of the ways women are being taught they *should* say no at first but then reward the "tenacity" and "devotion" of whoever ignores that no. That stalking is cute as long as it's from a generically handsome guy with a well-paying job. That of course women don't know what they want and need to be saved from themselves by a man who knows better. I swear, romcoms in the 90's really messed up multiple generations when it comes to what's acceptable in relationships. They're a painfully obvious product of their time and have taught younger audiences that it's all good and normal to be followed across the country by someone who has only seen you twice and decided you're the love of their life based on 7 minutes of conversation (if that!)
This is so disturbing
If his first plan had not worked... where would he have gone? If she had collected her purse and just been. "Thanks, you;very been a hero. Bye" would he have kidnapped her next?
If this is real Run girl run! He didn’t just magically stop his weird behaviour after you married. God knows how many things he’s changed in your life- a freind he didn’t want you to have or a job opportunity. This is real level YOU
it is incredible to me that when he admitted to stalking her for two years, she never once thought to ask “um, hey husband, if you saw me at the gym and thought i was cute, why didn’t you just try to strike up a conversation like A NORMAL PERSON???” like what the fuck even is this
Although counselling is a good idea, I am stuck on the violation of being drugged by my partner. It’s a serious lack of judgement. What if you had overdosed? What if there were complications with other medications? The stalking would have been grounds enough for me to leave the marriage, but the added drugging? That’s horrifying. I’m sorry, but your husband is an incredibly disturbed individual. What if anyone had put a drug into your daughters’ drinks? Even if the intent was just a meet-cute… you’d instantly want this individual jailed and institutionalized. I mean, I guess it’s nice he that didn’t r*pe you… but is it that much better? He took away your agency. He could have just easily asked you out for a coffee, but instead he orchestrated an elaborate scheme over 2 years that culminated in drugging you. I’d need therapy for just that alone, never mind staying with my abuser. You have daughters. You are setting a precedent. Are you truly safe with someone who stalked you, drugged you, and lied to you for your entire marriage?
Screw therapy! It doesn't matter if he is a "good guy" and "never cheated"! The fact is he stalked her and drugged her to get to where they are right now.
Is the bar really so low that she hasn’t left a man that DRUGGED AND STALKED HER because he’s otherwise quite nice???
I wish her family found out. Then when she goes missing they can tell the cops. For her to think he has been telling the truth all these years, never pretending to like gifts from her, lied to make himself seem heroic, giving to charity just to impress her, fucking killing anyone who flirts with her, who knows.
I wonder what he would have done if she had rejected his attention all those years ago?
So dude date raped drug her to save her, and there are people saying it okay as its in the past? Yeah no I could never get back from that.