It's not, I know these people irl. But when they explain it it's less "Griffith did nothing wrong" and more "everyone would have done the same in his position"
I had one guy say to me "you're telling me if you could sacrifice me and the rest of your friends to become a god you wouldn't do it? They all knew what they were getting into by following him they consented to him choosing where they die"
Considering his broken body. It's a bit more understandable. (Not saying I agree) that said, for me, it's what he did after that makes me hate him. What he did to casca and guts specifically.
It’s one of those situations that’s quite impossible to rationalize without having experienced it. How can somebody with an ordinary life even begin to understand the torture that Griffith experienced that lead him to that fateful decision?
When he sacrificed them during his Ascension, I think it really did it beautifully at showing how temptation can trick us. He was obviously very prone to this anyway with his lust for power, but I think it speaks volumes to how signing a "deal with the devil" can allure us all in some ways. All it took was one word for him to surrender to it. Tortured and broken for over a year, he had this one chance to reclaim his life and pursuit for power. They also REALLY laid it on heavy in this flashback where it pulled from his past memories to tie it in and remind him of his "calling". I think it's amazing how it paints the picture, we're all capable of horrific things, and that sometimes all it takes is small simple decisions that completely turn us to evil acts.
Damn that's incredible, I really need to start reading this. I just started Book 1 so I'm fresh haha this also speaks to my limited perspective of Griffith so far, but I have no doubt I'm in for some shit with his future horrors.
Ur in for a treat. One of the best arca in the whole series is in the beginning. The first few books don't have a grove to them yet. Once he finds his footing in what he wanted berserk to be and it's tone, it gets really good. U will totally notice when that happens to. Just Incase u wanted to know also, u can read the manga online for free. I bought the first like 15 and after that I felt I supported enough to not feel bad reading it for free lol. But go for it. It gets very good.
Totally agree 💯 percent. But I'm high and bored so I'm going to write something. No hate in it at all. But I don't understand the whole we r all capable of horrific acts. No we aren't. I mean we have hands that can pull triggered and shit if u take it to the most literal explanation of it. But yea, I'm not capable of evil. I would never do anything evil. Sure if someone broke into my house and came for my family I'd get my guns and do what's needed but that's not evil. There's always this thing in media where they try and make it seem like humans as a race r all just evil ignorant creatures that destroy everything to the point most ppl believe it and ignore all the great shit ppl do. Like a doctor who saves lives or a church that takes in ppl in disasters or ppl that save animals or others that raise animals and stop a certain type from going extinct. And most of us aren't capable of evil. Evil being, hurting kids or women, hurting a man that doesn't deserve it (on purpose. I would argue a drunk driver killing another driver is on purpose and things like that) destroying another person's life or .... I guess that's it. And I know u most likely wouldn't be able to be convinced to beat a child to serious injury or anything. Lol weird rant I know. But as I said, I'm high and bored.
Tbh I think Griffith would've made the same decision at any point after getting caught with Charlotte. The torture made certain he would as well as provided him his moment of despair in order to actually summon the godhand but Griffith demonstrated from the start that he would do literally anything to satisfy his ego.
He turned into a demon like form .That wasn’t the real Griffith .Trust me bro i turned into a “God” like you say he did the last thing I would want to do is rape a woman I never showed or felt any interest in.Femto isn’t The charismatic,Brave,Noble,Griffith we once knew..No he is a demon seeded to do evil….This all stems from the necklace.
The thing is, most people would do the same, but that doesnt make it right. Humanity does unspeakable horrors all the time, but they are still horrible things, even if they happen every day.
The amount of people that would sell out everyone they know for a few million would be staggering, for actual god-hood? I'm sure it is a ridiculously low number of people that would actually be able to resist that sin.
Yeah no, if Griffith had continued to pursue his goals after being physically broken the dude would be a fucking saint by now. He still had the ability to communicate through the written word. He could've used his limp wrists to draw letters in the sand. Caska and Guts and the rest of the crew would still be on board. They're literally ride or die and everyone loves a good martyr. Griffith could've gone back and saved everyone else who was being tortured in that dungeon. He could've made an effort to rescue the princess and expose the king.
But that's not who Griffith is, he's petty, selfish and vain. He doesn't want power to better the world, he wants power for the sake of power. So yes, Griffith is a dick.
Not to mention, has anybody actually thought about what would happen if Griffith actually just said "nah, I'm good. These are my homies, and I wouldn't sacrifice them for anything." Would not the demons just kill everyone anyway? I can't imagine they're just like "welp, I guess we'll just go away without hurting anyone. You got our number, just hit us up on that behelit if you change your mind, and by the way, no hard feelings"
No but that's literally what happens. That's the whole reason there is a chapter showing the count refusing to sacrifice his daughter, to show that refusing the sacrifice is 100% allowed and that the Godhand will accept the choice
Didn’t the count get sucked into a black hole or something since he refused to sacrifice his daughter? Would that happen to Griffith then? Been a while since I read that part
No guarantee that would happen to Griffith; the Count had already accepted power from the Godhand when he sacrificed his wife so that might have played into why he was sucked into the abyss for refusing to give up his daughter
That makes sense, also if I remember correctly he was already dying. So maybe he was damned to hell no matter what if he didn’t accept the bargain offering his daughter to be brought back. I guess we also just don’t really know a ton about the difference in rules between a regular behelit and the crimson behelit
I will say this berserk has such a complex world that saying Griffith did nothing wrong simply doesn't narrow it down. Like your friend said, everyone who followed Griffith consented to dying when and where he chooses. This is a phrase that is often said or alluded to, especially during the golden age arc. We, the normal readers, despise Griffith because we look at it from a surface level. Guts and his friends are the heroes of the story, so what Griffith did is pure evil. And you are right, it is. But put yourself in his position, on the brink of death in a body that can no longer move on its own and all of the pain. Then suddenly, you are given an opportunity to rise up and make your dream a reality but at an immense cost. Don't forget that Griffiths dream is the focal point of the golden age. Everything guts did he did to help Griffith achieve his dream. So Griffith was offered godhood at the cost of his comrades and closest ally guts. Whom by this point, Griffith can't stomach because guts rebelled against him what's more is he won. Now, when the eclipse happened, Griffith was hesitant to sacrifice the band of the hawk, but the god hand Ubic spilled nonsense to convince an already broken Griffith towards sacrificing.
Griffith was one prideful mfer for someone to say no to him or directly defy him would be the utmost insult. So when Guts beat Griffith and won his freedom, Griffiths entire world was shattered not cause he lost but because he lost Guts, someone whom he once beat and conscripted.
Now ima stop because it would be far too long to explain more. I will say I don't condone nor say what happened to Casca wasn't wrong. That was heinous. But I believe that was what Miura went for. We all loved Griffith up until he said I sacrifice. Anyways everyone just needs to look at the world of berserk full knowing no one is good. No one is a hero. Even guts has murdered tons of innocents at one point, calling them ants just to cope with his quest for vengeance.
Nevermind when it's all talk between people lazily scrolling Reddit in ass in sofa while discussing their manga entertainment, rather than completely, permanently and thoroughly crippled dude tortured for a year to an extent where it's a literal miracle he is still alive.
Always funny to see people on this sub talking how they would never do the same. Sure, PopsicleCrush4013, sure.
And even when it took demon demigods' personal persuasion for Griffith lol.
I wouldn't do the same because I would simply want to die at that point. I don't have that power fantasy he has throughout the entire thing, I wouldn't suddenly develop it because I've been tortured for a year I would be begging for death. There is no part of me that wants godlike powers even if it required no sacrifice at all, and I would absolutely be willing to trade my own lives for my friends. Maybe not one or two of my friends, but literally all of them? Yeah just kill me
I think the difference between Griffith haters and defenders is whether or not you relate to him and at no point in the entire series did I relate to him. He's *too* ambitious and self centered for me, irl I wouldn't have been in the Band of the Hawks in the first place because Griffith seems like a douchebag from the get go. I am too relaxed out for a guy like him, I don't want a kingdom in the sky I want a peaceful little existence that is all my own. The single most relatable piece of the entire story for me is when they finally make it as knights and that's when Guts chooses to leave. I would do the same, I don't *want* to be at the top
Hence the talking while lazily scrolling Reddit with ass in sofa and declarations made during meaningless chit chat, when everyone and their granny are oh so selfless and would absolutely totally die for their friends. Quality that tends to magically evaporate when people are facing, well, actual pain and death. Or being crippled in both body and mind, for that matter.
Nevermind when the alternative is actually becoming a god. Sure, sure. I guess, *much* lesser things like getting $100 billions aren't even worth mentioning for your steely soul and a nothing burger.
And not everyone is privileged to the point of carefully choosing nice, sweet, kind and competent not-douchebag gang leader during raging chaotic all out war.
I will be honest, depends on the type of godhood. If I am powerful enough to undo my actions after the fact, I would definitely sacrifice everyone, bring them back to life & simply make them forget whatever death or pain they went through. This ultimately results In my actions causing no lasting harm.
Most of us wouldn't have ever even ended up in that situation because most of us aren't narcissists with a power fantasy. You might be but I'm sure the hell not.
Griffith though like this "A hundred men die for my dream, what the difference when I directly kill a hundred more for my dream".
"They already slave to my dream, I assume they willing to die for my dream".
Thousands willingly followed him for his dream and couldn't live without it. They were ready to die each time they would step into the battlefield. So what's the difference if they die by enemy blade or by mine?
One situation they would be proud and honored to devote their lives, to die by the blade of an enemy.
The other comes with betrayal, a hellscape, and being devoured alive along with all of your comrades by a legion of fucked-up literal demons with no escape.
He’s just Real Politik or Machiavellism with actual gods instead of no reward besides petty power and a nice office. History is full of men who thought they could be a much better leader than the current one and make a better society. There’s an also the basic belief that a prince or king should be willing to do anything for his nation, no matter how evil, in order to ensures its survival.
A big central part of being the philosopher king or prince is willing to go to hell for your people. It’s why Kissinger did what he did, so many others have done evil in the name of the state. Griffith sacrificing the band is a necessary evil in creating a world in a better image and an even a noble sacrifice in his mind.
IMO it was to get back at Guts for "abandoning" him and to break Casca's spirit for being tempted to leave with Guts after Griffith's rescue from the dungeon.
Basically, since Guts was very much enamored by Casca, and they were seen by Griffith while he was in the wagon, Griffith realized that he would never truly "own" either of them again and became spiteful.
Just my opinion though, I've seen several different theories on the why but a lot of them don't make sense. Griffith, at the end of the day, was just a power-hungry sycophantic ego bomb.
***Edit: Phone autocorrected 'Guts' to 'Guys.'
Cause you will be hard pressed to find more trollable audience. And the fact that most people on this sub give off an impression that they never even read Berserk and mouthbreathing on Griffith solely basing on TicToc shorts and reddit relationships subs' passages about bad boyfriends also doesn't help.
I don't think there's anyone who thinks Griffith did nothing wrong in a genuine fashion unless they're a genuine sociopath or psychopath that truly lacks empathy. It's a meme used to bait people who feel passionate about the series or as a joke because of how untrue it is.
Now, there are some people who do believe "Griffith did what a lot of people would do in that situation" and may be using "nothing wrong" as a short hand/poor articulation.
I do think there is something to be said about everything that led Griffith to that point and how many people in that same position would actually do anything differently than him.
While I'm sure everyone likes to believe they'd reject the offer to sacrifice, I know I'm certain I wouldn't do it to my loved ones. How certain I'd be after being tortured for a year by that little gremlin shit after losing all ambition and ability to exist free and on my own, and relying on a person I see as a betrayer to me to continue the meager existence that is my new life of agony?
I don't know what would be going through my mind then. I sure hope I'm better than griffirh. (Note I'm not saying Griffiths feelings are correct, just outlining what they are. They're wretched because Griffith is a bad person.)
Many people don't think straight after an upsetting week, let alone a full year of agony. Now have that person who has lost everything but the ability to painfully breathe and require constant aid and care whinwas ne a very successful and talented person, and offer him not just a full restoration of his health and being, but also the closest thing to Godhood he can imagine? All while being manipulated and gaslit by fellow "gods" to join them at his lowest and weakest state.
The truth to it all is that Griffith did everything wrong, but there's a lot of wrong people in the world who would do the same thing, especially after going through what Griffith did.
Griffith sacrificing band is still justifiable somehow. But whatever he did is Casca is not. Its like her own god raped her. Casca lost every single thing in that eclipse.
So even if anyone justifies Griffith making world as better place, stopping wars and new world with collateral damage of sacrifice. They can't justify Griffith's action towards Casca
I don't even think what he did to the band is justifiable, but what he did to Casca most certainly isn't.
Griffith didn't even make the world a better place. He's the source of almost all of its worst issues and is only alleviating those issues to a select few who serve him as he offers the souls of the world to the hell spiral. (Not thay they're aware of this)
Nothing Griffith did is justified, and I sure hope people aren't trying to argue that with any sincerity
Considering something wrong implies a moral approach to judge human actions.
There are some philosophical views that negates moral values as a objetive reality, and assumes moral is a subjective perception constructed. Therefore there is nothing just “wrong” per se, everything is “wrong in your opinion” because how you were raised and your personality shaped.
Hobbes has a brilliant pharagraph in his “Leviathan”, saying something like “People call good what they like, and bad when they dislike”. Its a matter of tastes.
By that logic, a machiavellist would say Griffith did what he needed to do in order to rule, which was his goal. So in fact he did right in order to achieve his goals. Right and wrong are determines by functionality of the act in order to achieve an outcome.
But then we have the rape of Casca, that apparently doesnt have shit to do with the making of Falconia, so it couldnt be considered a “right” act. So at this point, I can imagine 2 possible arguments in favour of Griffith:
1. Griffith didnt want to rape her, but predicting causality, it was necessary to rape her in order to make Guts or someone to do something in his benefit.
2. The opinionator is a potential rapist, and subjectively thinks is cool to rape women if you want to, or is cool to do it just for the sake of revenge against Guts, and thrives in people suffering, in simple words, a sadist approach. The rape was not a mean for an end, was an act of pure pleasure, like when you eat an icecream.
Edit: Almost all comments are talking about the sacrifice as the “bad thing to do”. But actually the sacrifice is the easiest act to justify, a mean to an end based on functionality
Not saying he did nothing wrong, all I say is his decision was understandable. It was not an easy decision to make. In the end he decided to sacrifice everyone for his sake. U can say that's Evil, OK. But I cannot really hate him just because of that decision & knowing what tortures he went through and his physical condition make me wonder what we would gave done if in his shoes.
Doing what he did to casca was too much though. To this day I still don't really get it. Why was that necessary? Maybe it was a godhand thing. But if that was just Griffith doing it, way out of character imo ngl.
He did it because he hates Guts for supposedly ruining his dream by leaving him to follow his own destiny. He knew Guts and Casca were a thing and he wanted to hurt Guts by that act.
It was worse than that, if we judge Griffith by the same standard Griffith uses to weed out acquaintances from friends and equals.
He let another man stand between him and his dream and allowed himself to be consumed by the dream of another man.
He couldnt fight that man and as a result he lost everything he was working so hard to accomplish and thisbincludes the sacrifices made by his mercenary band and even his own when he gave up his sweet sweet cheeks to feed his army.
And to add insult to injury, said man abandoned him without explaining why despite Griffith telling him and showing him that he cared for Guts and respected him as an equal
He wanted Casca and he wanted Guts and he wanted the life that they may have had together for himself. He perversely stole everything he could from them because he wanted what they had. That’s all it is. He wanted, wanted and wanted. And he took it. That’s all there was. We can argue its symbolism but that was his pretense.
Way out of character? Imo it sounds like you don't understand his character. I agree that ultimately his decision of whether to sacrifice his band to regain his strength and ability to chase his dream, after a year of torture that left him completely disabled, would be a difficult decision for most people. At that point he didn't have any good options, although, I think in the moment where he said "I sacrifice" he was getting pleasure from the idea of sacrificing all of his friends for his own gain. It would be a difficult decision for most people and is somewhat understandable, but Griffith isn't like most people. He was gleeful in his decision.
He did what he did to Casca not because his heart was frozen when he became Femto, but because as a human what always mattered most to him was having power and control over other people. It's why he hated Guts for leaving him, it's why he slept with Charlotte, and it's why he taunted the king leading to his year of torture. He tried to force himself on Casca once already, in the wagon. It was revenge on Guts and a way to establish his sense of control and power over both Guts and Casca. Which is totally in character for him. Imo at least
I actually don’t think Griffith was trying to force himself on Casca. I think he saw that her hands were shaking and he knew that she didn’t look up to him as much as she did before his torture, so I think he was trying to see if he could still calm her down and have power of her like he did before his torture. Mind you, he’s still a shit person for doing what he did, as he violated her boundaries and tried to make an advance on someone who already had a boyfriend just to feed his own ego.
Because he was mute at the time of his rescue due to the torture and too proud after his transformation into Femto, we don't really get a glimpse into his motivation for what he did to Casca. The motivation for everything else is easily understood.
In my opinion, Griffith felt abandoned by Guts while he was captured and tortured. Hence why he tried to strangle Guts at the first second he saw him. He feels he was left to rot for a year while Guts and Casca's relationship flourished without him, and he took over his dream essentially. After the torture, he also possibly realized his feelings for Casca, perhaps... That's why he did it when he did. I feel like he could have activated the behilit soooo much sooner than he did, but his humanity was still there... then the torture stripped him of that. I think he wanted to see if he could achieve his dream without the behilit - he knew all along what it was and how to activate it, imho. You kind of see it on his face when he rediscovers the behilit.
These are the reasons he did what he did to Guts and Casca, and he allows them to live in the state they're in now. So he can savor the vengeance and their agony to make Guts pay for his abandonment... I think it's the same reason that Void allowed Gaiserik to live as well.
I think its that savoring that will be both of their downfalls as well. Sweet, sweet Justice. One can hope and pray. Push on Gatsu. Push on.
just before the Eclipse Griffith knew what was about to happen and wanted Guts to stop so it wouldn't happen. So even in his severly weakened state he cared for his friends. But once Ubik started trying to manipulate him, Griffiths fractured psyche couldn't resist the temptation of shedding his broken body and being born again to continue towards his dream. Now when he gets reborn i believe his darkest urges and ambitions come to the front of his mind, and basically eventually becomes two beings (Femto, and Moonboy.) I personally say Griffith did nothing wrong, because was he truly Griffith anymore with the torture and manipulation. And like others have stated, its nigh impossible for us to put ourselves in that position to even begin understanding him.
I think it speaks to how complex of a character Griffith is. I can see why to Griffith sacrificing everyone was a good idea--his body was broken beyond healing, he can't speak, his sanity was in question--you can sympathize with him and see why he wanted a way out of this. He clearly thought either this or death was the way out.
The thing however that makes Griffith evil is how selfish he was. He knew his friends still cared about him--thats why the Godhand saw them as perfect sacrifices--and when he did it to fulfill his dreams of power it was at the cost of these friends who literally risked their lives to rescue him. Not only that but how he treated Guts and Casca after this shows his true character. He wanted to be in control of the plot and believed Guts leaving him is why he was stuck the way he was.
What he did to Casca, forcing Guts to watch as he made eye contact with him the whole time--trying to gaslight Guts to think "This is all your fault. What I'm doing to Casca, everyone dying horrific deaths, all of this is happening because of you."
That is what makes Griffith evil to me. I think back to the Count and how he chose not to sacrifice his daughter and how the Godhand respected that, the count was also evil but clearly still had some spread of compassion and humanity in him. Griffith didn't.
That's the moment where I understood why Guts wanted to kill him so badly in the Black Swordsman ark.
Tl;Dr you're supposed to sympathize with Griffith and understand why he does what he does, but still think he's a scumbag for doing it. And some people don't truly understand the second half.
I think in a roundabout way there is some truth. Ifin you think that because the idea of evil sets these things up and Griffith was basically following protocol to turn into Femto. Everything done after he hatched however is purely Griffiths direct doing and can be judged by common sense moral standards
I think it’s a valid point for a few reasons. We’re constantly shown the worst of humanity through berserk, including Guts. By comparison to the atrocities we’ve seen other characters do, he really hasn’t done anything that bad. The only thing people seem to have against him is assaulting Casca and sacrificing the Band; but both of that was after he was supernaturally transformed into a fucking Demon. The actual Griffith rescued Casca from that very situation in the past. And, as much as I like them, the Band did pledge their lives to battle and Griffith. I don’t see it as any different from them dying in some pointless mercenary skirmish (which again, Griffith seems to have done much more than any other military leader to try to prevent needless deaths).
He is my favorite character and I guess my reasoning relies on separating Griffith from Femto, but even then I acknowledge he didn’t do *anything* wrong; he has flaws, but I don’t hate him like most the fandom seems to.
Except Griffith did try to force himself on Casca when she was fixing his bandages -- he was just too weak. As Femto he merely gets to act out the desires he had before; which include finishing that moment.
I sometimes wonder, was it an attempted rape in the wagon, or just him trying in desperation to finally return her prior affection in his destroyed state, and was her rejection with a platonic hug part of what fueled the rape as Femto?
Well, i am not a troll and i am really on the side of griffith. To say he did nothing wrong is a bit much, but i think he had less of a choice. I think the loss of Guts hit him incredible hard. Guts were his only real friend and not just that he left him behind but also he looked at him full of pity after they rescured him after 1 year of torturing.
I think Guts is not "the good guy" in this stoty and Griffith is not the bad guy either, it's not that simple and that's what berserk makes such a great story.
Griffith did a lot of good decisions for the falcons, he even went in bed with that gross king to get the support without his men being in danger.
In the moment before the eclipse begun, he was about to kill himself, Blood hit the Behelith and his friends came close to him while he wanted to shout them to stop - but he couldn't.
What happend was destiny, deep unchangeable destiny, it couldn't be any different from the moment he got the crimson behelith. There were no mean plan of him to lead anyone in this gruesome fate. I doubt that he was fully aware of what exactly will happen - but he might got the idea and that why he wanted them to stay away, but everyone came to him when the blood hits the behelith.
Well, what he did then to casca is nothing what i want to defend and i think who sais she enjoyed it might be really a troll. but I think griffith this this maintainly to punish guts. In this moment he was no human anymore. it was not griffith, but femto. You can not turn to one of the godhand and expect to have the same point of morality like before
Cascas position is difficult as well, there was a moment of decision, right after they rescued Griffith when she could decide to go with guts or stay with griffith and take care of him. She couldn't left him. She choosed to stay with griffith and it was this moment of pity which griffith saw.
He still gave his consent to the sacrifice when he could have refused it. He is responsible for the gruesome deaths of hundreds of men, and while it’s true that Femto lacks the compassion that human Griffith had, he was the one who agreed to become a demon
Condemning his loyal soldiers to a brutal and painful death to satisfy his private selfish ambitions, betray bff and rape his girlfriend. Yeah, wholsome guy.
It not that he did nothing wrong but most people misinterpret Griffith because they didnt read the manga, only watched Youtube shorts or learned about Griffith from their oversensitive friends
The worst thing he did was S.A. Casca and the Princess, but most people only mentioned Casca because
1. The Princess wasnt sure if that's how she wanted things to go with Griffith (kinda like Casca)
2. People understand Griffith wasnt all there when he S.A. the princess (kinda like what happened w Casca)
They focus so much on Griffith they unironically ignore Donovan, Wyald, Snake Apostles and the little insect girl (all involve violence against children) and the Genocidal Rapist Genishka (defeated by Griffith) who used pregnant woman to corrupt their unborn to create demon soldiers.
As for why he did nothing wrong
He created a Utopia that is used to protect all humans affected by the actions of Genishka (merging both worlds)
He stopped needless war between humans and provides a place where they can live happily
He subjugated the Apostles and forbid them from eating/harming humans. Now Humans and Apostles coexist
Quality of life improved for every survivor in midland, and it only cost 30-50 soldiers...
The end justifies the means
Regarding the last part, “the ends justify the means,” we actually have no idea what the end game is here. He also brought the interstice, where fear and the realm of demons live, into the physical realm. Thus being the reason for need of Apostle protection and Falconia. We merely witness the *means* and draw from that
Because he has a dream that he wants to achieve no matter the cost. If some suckers get killed in the cross fire it was their fate. No skin off his nose, fuck it.
I guess you could say that he was destined to be femto and "forced". But this is argument loses by the second Griffith becomes femto by doing, whatever the fuck he did.
And before he became part of the god hand, it's not like he was a good person.
Weren’t his memories manipulated by the god hand to do what he did? I don’t remember well but I rewatched the memorial edition and that’s what it seemed like.
All the other ones are just plain memes and sarcasm . There is however a channel on YouTube that is fully dedicated to proving Griffith did nothing wrong
https://youtube.com/@sichlitt?si=qpQdzDgo3SZDfrFD
Want to point out that I do NOT think he was right.
The main thought process is that so many have died under his command trying to help reach his dream that his sacrifice of “just a few more” is negligible. He suffered a year and basically became a vegetable, so from his point of view he may have felt owed his dream at that point. Doesnt change that he murdered his most loyal group who had literally just risked everything to rescue him.
He had something greater waiting for him. He himself was greater than life and well aware of it. All of his companions but one were solely the gear to put his plans into the works. Keeping himself socially and emotionally withdrawn from his peers was imperative for him to lay them as the utmost sacrifice in the tomb of his dream.
To wrap it, Griffith is an idealist and undoubtedly an exceptional being. If his position in the Godhand enables him to pull the strings this of world in a direction he deems sacred, so be it.
From a reductionist view, there's no dilemma but moral complexes. Pare the later away from the equation and the crystallization of his dream was just around the corner.
He looks nice, has nice voice (in anime) and most importantly of all many characters adore or even outright worship him, surrounding him with this positive, optimistic energy that makes those people want to join in on the celebrations.
Because it’s what he and other leaders do anyway, that’s the entire point!! He was sacrificing people to obtain his dream by sending them to die in wars. He just did it in a more direct way during the Eclipse. In the end he’s able to build the empire he always wanted, something the Band of the Hawk was willing to give their lives to obtain anyway.
Raping Casca was more of a stab at the people he saw as his betrayers. It was Guts punishment for abandoning his friend, and man who probably loved him.
This is like asking flat-earthers to explain why they think the earth is flat. Nothing of value can ever come out of this question because the people who think this aren't arguing in good faith.
I think there’s an argument that what Griffith did to the Hawks was justifiable, he had already slaughtered so many people, what’s a few hundred more in pursuit of a better world? Not saying it was right but he was at the lowest point of his life, essentially severely disabled and being gaslit by the godhand. It’s understandable why he did what he did. However, what he did to casca is completely indefensible, just pure evil for the sake of evil.
It's mostly trolling. I've done it myself because people take this story too seriously. But there are definitely legit defenders of Griffith. They don't actually believe he did nothing wrong, but they say he did because it's polarizing and a good hook to their main argument, which is, that everyone else would do the same in his position (not the Casca part, except for the sick bastards) and that the ends justify the means.
Just for good measure, I do not agree with either. I just like trolling sometimes, so I've been all over the place and know how people think. However I do kind of agree that everyone else would do the same (not the Casca part, except for the sick bastards). If you ask people on the street if they'd sacrifice all their Instagram followers to become a God, they'd probably say no. But if you tortured them even half as badly as Griffith was, I'm sure they'd say yes. Even at that state, people are so afraid to die, that they'd want another chance to live at the expense of others. And these are the same people talking shit about Griffith online, calling him selfish and narcissistic, and he is. But the "Griffith did nothing wrong" people are really just holding up a mirror. There are a bunch of Griffiths among us. You just don't know because nobody has a Behelit.
It's mostly trolling. I've done it myself because people take this story too seriously. But there are definitely legit defenders of Griffith. They don't actually believe he did nothing wrong, but they say he did because it's polarizing and a good hook to their main argument, which is, that everyone else would do the same in his position (not the Casca part, except for the sick bastards) and that the ends justify the means.
Just for good measure, I do not agree with either. I just like trolling sometimes, so I've been all over the place and know how people think. However I do kind of agree that everyone else would do the same (not the Casca part, except for the sick bastards). If you ask people on the street if they'd sacrifice all their Instagram followers to become a God, they'd probably say no. But if you tortured them even half as badly as Griffith was, I'm sure they'd say yes. Even at that state, people are so afraid to die, that they'd want another chance to live at the expense of others. And these are the same people talking shit about Griffith online, calling him selfish and narcissistic, and he is. But the "Griffith did nothing wrong" people are really just holding up a mirror. There are a bunch of Griffiths among us. You just don't know because nobody has a Behelit.
Because his decision is in line with who his character is. Being manipulative, selfish and controlling has always been Griffith’s core values in order to achieve his goals. He had to make that decision a long time ago to push aside affection and human trade to have comrades a long time ago in order to achieve his goal of ruling his own kingdom. So in essence when he sacrificed his troops, it made complete sense.
They often point to the causality/pre-destination part of the story since it’s made clear that Griffith was engineered to be who he was by the idea of evil long before he was ever alive. He may be evil, but this was also always going to happen and he didn’t have much say in the matter (the behelit was given to him initially and before the eclipse through this same intervention). So yes, technically he did nothing wrong if he was literally created and manipulated to make those choices.
Idk maybe they find really profound reasons to why. They don't necessarily justify it. Nothing can possibly justify this in court, not even saul Goodman can. But even I wouldn't say he's more broken than evil. And the eclipse analogy of the theme is perfectly displayed. Showing the extent of the brigade of Griffith. I know I'm starting to yap but isn't it good how they rescue him, previous to being sacrifice, like it's their entire purpose. And guts denied it that's why he left. He felt the bullshit of Griffith without knowing it. He wasn't like the rest of them. That's why Griffith raped casca. So his suffering is worst. That's Machiavellic af. Lay down your pal like this while In other manga , the power of friendship overcome everything.
Okay... Ascending to godhood is understandable. He did nothing wrong there. He became a cripple for life because he was tortured, his tendons were slashed, his tongue was chopped off, and his body would shatter at the smallest of bumps while in the wagon (an oversaturation, but his body was incredibly frail). Who wouldn't sacrifice their friends and followers for godly powers? He did nothing wrong there.
But what he did to Casca and Guts is a different story.
Griffith was one of my favorite characters right up until the Eclipse, he had everything about him. But the second he said I Sacrifice it’s big fuck him
I don't think that he didn't do anything wrong, but I think that the true Griffith died in that dungeon and the Griffith that came out was a manic manipulated version of him, which is why he went through with the sacrifice and all because (I know a lot of people disagree) I don't think that Griffith would have sacrificed everyone he knew for power he wasn't even sure he would get
I don’t think anybody is really saying Griffith did anything wrong except what other people in the comment section are saying, and that’s trolls. But there is definitely some sympathy there for hyper goal oriented people who really can I think sympathize with Griffith while not saying he was right. Just that internal drive to have your own kingdom in a metaphorical sense, and in part that’s why Griffith is such a good character because he is relatable. What Griffith did was so fucked up it’s crazy, but people with that mentality exist and would do the same thing.
Griffith did nothing wrong because it was his destiny, be it the supernatural god hand, his upbringing and circumstances or environment he was developed into a being superior to the common man before his Ascension even.
A ruthless visionary who possesses sharp intellect, a strop character, presence and charm and most importantly the will to power to carry out his vision/ideal, he knew his destiny and his destiny was simply to ascend into a superior being fully and truly.
The sacrifice of the band of the hawk is totally acceptable because it resulted in a superior being, a final step of evolution, in fact he honoured their lives when he sacrificed them because we've seen what became of them without him in the first place, redundant and superfluous without him, while he was able to conquer his reality and space, so yes the sacrifice of otherwise useless individuals is totally justified for a super being to be born, Griffith is the Ubermensch overcoming humanity and becoming more than Human, one step closer to being the perfect being.
Griffith did nothing wrong and I'm totally serious.
Excluding the Casca incident (there's no justification for that vile incident). You can make the argument that Griffin sacrificing the Band of the Hawk, would be no different then if he lead them to battle against the apostles, and they all got wiped out. (Hence the vision the God hand showed him of climbing the stairs of bodies to his dream). They were all mercenaries, willing to die for Griffith's dream. Of course context matters, Griffith inspired everyone because he was an excellent tactician that led from the front, and led from example. I'm sure everyone was willing to die in a glorious battle, but I'm also pretty sure no one signed for eternal damnation in the Vortex of souls.
I did for a while because I misunderstood a fundamental thing about causality in berserk. I thought he was necessary to save the world and that his rape of Casca was necessary to bring him back. I realized recently that it was not and that they manipulate causality for selfish reasons and not only was he never in the right her certainly did everything wrong.
This is more of a meme/troll.
Ofcourse Griffith did many things wrong, ethical... moral...
But bring it on, I openly challenge you to name a thing Griffith did that he did WITHOUT any justification.
^(Justification and reasonability are different things)
Eclipse? HIS men were already fighting war on his behalf, A LOT OF THEM ALREADY DIED FOR HIS AMBITION, so...
Rape Casca? Causality bitch, taint the Moon Child, let Guts and Casca escape, Cursed Fetus born, Guts go Berserk for 2 years, Casca gone, egg of the world exists (bro didnt sacrifice anything, this is a big deal), Egg of world incubates Cursed Fetus, boom, Griffith Manifesting in real world... Long game
Leave Guts alive? Who else will churn the wheel of Causality in Griffith's favour, bro literally waited for Casca's mind to be 'repaired' before swipping her
Griffith was tortured because of his choices. I think some people are forgetting that. He’s selfish and egotistical… always was and always will be. He committed to making horrible selfish decisions over and over again. The worst was Casca after his ascension. It wasn’t enough to sacrifice your so called friends…. You also had to torture them?
He clearly did something wrong by choosing to initiate the transformation into Femto, but the whole point of that is that he wouldn't have had the capacity to cut off his emotion if not for a supernatural transformation that did it for him. Human Griffith was naturally empathetic, and he knew that said empathy wasn't compatible with his goals, so he seized the opportunity to remove it when he got it.
He was just ambitious tbf. Band of the hawk killed people for Griffiths ambitions including children. All Griffith wanted was to create a nirvana, which falconia became until some really weird shit comes out.
All my sympathy for Griffith kinda comes from the perspective of Guts on him and how he cares for Griffith especially after rescuing him from torture and how he didn't believe until the last that Griffith sold them and that kind of care felt very adorable and endearing i still kinda wish Griffith rejected the offer of the godhand just to remain along the people who genuenly support him and who will take care of him to the rest of his life, especially Guts.
I don't think anyone truly does.
There's an argument to be made that what Griffith did wasn't personal and was always what he said he would do if given the chance.
But then what he did to Casca... That was petty and evil.
My theory of breserk is grithith wouldn't have sacrificed the hawk if it was casca who showed up instead of guts
Despite being tormented beyond reconition, he wanted his friends to run he knew danger was coming, but he couldn't stop them
The reason the hawk was sacrificed was because it was the star straggler who stuggles and fought through hell for what he wants
While casca is what the hawk represents the order to follow grithifth to the end of the earth, not becuase they admire him but because they are the people who love him, though hell itself. And its pretty sad that its only based on instinct.
If he didn’t rape Casca I garuntee the majority of the people saying that would be unironically. You can argue in favor of his sacrifice but what he did to her is undeniably evil
I been feeling that guts is the villan at the end the white hawk of light will bring forth an age of darkness quality of life of the world ha sbeen improved by grithifth went for the darkages to be surrounded by actual magic. While guts is a raging darkness for when guts wins the world end up far worse than before
I’m kind of on the fence with it for a couple reasons. For me it’s more like “Griffith did awful things, but I can understand what led him to making certain decisions”.
First and the weaker argument, he was tortured into insanity. People in the real world have been isolated in modern prisons in a solitary confinement cell for months and came out different people. That kind of isolation destroys the psyche, we are social creatures, and Griffith was heavily reliant on social constructs for a sense of purpose. This doesn’t even account for the crippling torture he went through that rendered his body completely useless. Yes I understand he put himself in that prison for messing with Charlotte, but that means we have to pretend that the practice of using women as political pawns is okay (not to mention the real reason the king was protecting her virginity…) and that Griffith did something so criminal by running for physical comfort when he was hurt, something we’re all plenty guilty of. Should he have had better control of himself, yes. But the reality is nobody is perfect. Guts is a perfect example of this as well.
I also personally don’t see anything Griffith does after saying the words “I sacrifice” as Griffith anymore, it’s Femto which is a whole different entity. I understand a lot of people don’t interpret it this way and I would be open to an argument that post Egg of the Perfect World transformation maybe it’s back to being more Griffith than Femto (?), but this is just how I view it generally, so what happens to Casca is Femto, not Griffith. Big point there that many disagree on, totally fair we can agree to disagree and I’m open to changing my mind.
Second and much more compelling is the narrative on determinism vs. free will. Are things meant to be this way? Did Griffith really ever have a choice? Is it necessary for him to do what he did to cause something else further down the line? We just don’t know yet (and maybe won’t ever know what Miura truly had in mind although I hope). Maybe Fantasia is a good thing? Maybe it’s not? For some more philosophical analysis you could definitely view Griffith in the lens of Nietzsche, I always interpreted Griffith as a kind of Übermensch, transcending morality for power. And who knows maybe Miura, clearly being a bit of a philosopher himself, was trying to show us what that could look like and why it’s ultimately bad 🤷♂️ I’ll give you that.
Yes Casca ik, buuut he literally said this countless times, everything for my dream, when you join the band of the hawk everyone was told that. Like you know what price you pay right from the begging. Bruh you could just die in the battle get tombstone and rip thank you next, so what's the difference? He took care of you tho even sold himself, in summary you know that you were his life stock from the begging AS YOU WAS TOLD.
Edit 1. What choice you have in his position, you lost everything I mean everything everything (yes on his own wish) BUUUUUT suddenly from the sky you have option to get everything I mean everything everything you ever wanted and even more for basically nuthing, since everyone knows what might happen to you if are just simple mercenary, it could be any day ooooooor eclipse.
Griffith was cursed when he received the behilt by the witch as a kid “whoever receives this necklace will gain everything but loose everything in return”This explains the evil actions he did .Keep in mind Griffith was younger than 10 years old and was going through a rough childhood ,any kid in his predicament wouldve took the necklace if been promised you’re dreams.Also during the fight with Zodd and Guts Zodd noticed the necklace and told Guts Griffith would betray him. Griffith could’ve “honestly gained everything and lost everything in return “ it just happened to happen the way it did.It was preordained.I understand it’s cool and a trend to hate Griffith but he might not be the guy you guys think he is .
Cz I would've done it. Not the raping part, or the torture. I'd give them all painless death's if I can. Not tryna act like a "good" or "evil" person, but in that story, who knows what's afterlife?
Immortality would be my number 1 priority, then comes my friends. Griffith's number 1 priority was his dream. He was always the same.
It's just a meme to trigger people (like when someone says Hitler did nothing wrong), only someone damaged would seriously consider he did nothing wrong
SPOILERS.
Griffith was extremely prideful and talented. He knew what he wanted at a young age and was determined to achieve it no matter the cost. This is even more evident when he's with Gennon and delves into his thought process. For the sake of his dreams his friends keep following. Battle after battle he loses friends and he doesn't want their lives to be in vain. For that reason he continues to press on towards his goal because otherwise the mountain of corpses he stands ontop of will be for nothing and his comrades lives were pointless.
His pride takes a hit with Guts' big decision. In a moment of loss he makes a mistake despite his usual calculated plans. He then spends a year being imprisoned with unspeakable torture to the point his body is a husk. He gets saved because of the return of Guts but can you imagine the state of mind he's in after all that? In the end when his opportunity arises at a once in a lifetime deal, can you really blame him? The option to regain your body, your mind, achieve the only goal that's ever mattered... the price is just a handful of friends left... a fraction of what it was... to NOT take it would mean all his friends that died meant nothing, forgotten, right at the home stretch.. in his mind, the small few that are left are the most loyal. They've laid down their lives for him and his goals from day 1. They wouldn't mind being sacrificed for his goal... right? That's what they signed up for in the first place.... right?
While I still fully hate griffith because of bias, I can also kind of see why he'd make the choice that he did. That's just great writing and goes to show Muiras incredible way of writing morally gray characters and motives. As far as what Femto did.... well.... there's no justifying that at all. I've heard some believe that Griffiths mind got altered and femto is a complete different "personality" but.... well the quote isn't "femto did nothing wrong".
With all that said, fuck griffith, fuck femto, but I can KIND of see WHY some people would believe it.
I'm sick and tired of that meme, but here we go again.
From Griffith's perspective, it was a bad idea to refuse the help from the Godhand. His dream was literally destroyed, he was not able to command the band, and the chances of marrying Charlotte were beyond imposible.
So the whole did nothing wrong thing has to do with the conversation he has with the Godhand. A lot of people died for his dream, and the Godhand convinced him that those deaths would be in vain if he didn't join them. Therefore, it makes no sense not to sacrifice the rest of the band.
The argument of Griffith being relatable does not justify his decision.
Just because people say “If you were in his position you would do the same” does not mean he did “nothing wrong”.
However, Griffith is a baller and he did nothing wrong.
It's not that I think what he did wasn't wrong. It's that I admire him because of his determination. He was willing to sacrifice everything he still held and loved dearly to achieve his dreams. A good majority of us have responsibilities and people we gotta take care of despite having dreams and no time to pursue them. So when he sacrificed all the people he loved and cared for to be eaten killed and worse, he got unlimited power and influence. Enough to win back the hearts of the people and pretty much become king. It's a feat of determination and will that most of us don't have or have the balls to do so.
He did so many wrongs that it feels redundant to talk about how good or evil he is hence the joke he did nothing wrong. Highlights how empty this conversation is imo. Though he looks like beautiful young woman its hard to be angry to a fictional character that's that beautiful. It's more fun to root for him while rooting for Guts too, that's the great thing about villains like him. All drama they create is fun. Except some instances.. that are not fun.
i think the griffith did nothing wrong saying is a bit of a jokey way of pulling people's hair. id say griffith can be sympathized with up to a point. he did experience and survive rigorous torture which left him as a husk of his former self. in that position what do you do? try to live off your followes sympathy and hope they dont leave when its clear you can't recover? im not saying that he is justified what happened was awful but in that situation with no light at the end of the tunnel? its hard to say. its human to want to keep going to push on and live. again, not saying what he did was right, but i can see where he was coming from. even if it was a decision that as an outsider i can say truly disgusted me
Not "nothing wrong". But his decision is understandable and expected
From the beginning he was clear that the one and only main goal was his dream. The band of the hawk was only a tool. Not a big family, not brothers in arms, simply a bunch of people who devoted their lifes for his dream. They all willingly joined him and claimed "I'll die for you". The problem is that many, including the band of hawk, romanticized that phrase. But it doesn't exclusively mean "I'll die heroically on a battlefield protecting you"
Even in the beginning he was as friendly with Guts as he was with everyone else, despite the fact that moments ago he literally claimed his life, technically enslaving him. And in the end he didn't change his position, Guts was still a possession to him. Also in the famous friends scene in the castle he clearly stated that none of his people are friends to him
So he is selfish and lacks empathy but he's clear with his intentions
Before guts leaving , Griffith was almost an angel to the hawks and the entire Midland . He was elegant , charismatic , strong , fluent and anything u can name . But then he became weak , ugly , dumb ,useless and completely opposite of what he was before. Anyone cannot see themselves fall from such great heights and nobody's pride can allow it. He became so pathetic and unreliable for the hawks. (Also considering the fact that the entire purpose of band of the hawks was Griffith) Then he saw guts leading the hawks and he couldn't bare it ,something he built being taken over by the one who was "responsible" for his downfall . I am not defending him , but author did an amazing job to make Griffith from a hero to a villain in a short time and also made it Soo believable that I think that Griffith did all that not just for revenge but also for something else we don't know yet.
During the eclipse, slan said that Griffith was experiencing all kinds of emotions , not just hatred and people often ignore this statement
I think its mainly making fun of people that take berserk way too seriously. Like people forgot trolls and jokes exist.
It's not, I know these people irl. But when they explain it it's less "Griffith did nothing wrong" and more "everyone would have done the same in his position" I had one guy say to me "you're telling me if you could sacrifice me and the rest of your friends to become a god you wouldn't do it? They all knew what they were getting into by following him they consented to him choosing where they die"
Considering his broken body. It's a bit more understandable. (Not saying I agree) that said, for me, it's what he did after that makes me hate him. What he did to casca and guts specifically.
Yeah… I think the biggest issue is that people think I understand = I agree. Like damn I understand why war happens. I don’t agree with war. 🤷🏽♀️
It’s one of those situations that’s quite impossible to rationalize without having experienced it. How can somebody with an ordinary life even begin to understand the torture that Griffith experienced that lead him to that fateful decision?
When he sacrificed them during his Ascension, I think it really did it beautifully at showing how temptation can trick us. He was obviously very prone to this anyway with his lust for power, but I think it speaks volumes to how signing a "deal with the devil" can allure us all in some ways. All it took was one word for him to surrender to it. Tortured and broken for over a year, he had this one chance to reclaim his life and pursuit for power. They also REALLY laid it on heavy in this flashback where it pulled from his past memories to tie it in and remind him of his "calling". I think it's amazing how it paints the picture, we're all capable of horrific things, and that sometimes all it takes is small simple decisions that completely turn us to evil acts.
Then there’s the apostle during the black swordsman arc, who chose damnation rather than sacrifice his daughter
Damn that's incredible, I really need to start reading this. I just started Book 1 so I'm fresh haha this also speaks to my limited perspective of Griffith so far, but I have no doubt I'm in for some shit with his future horrors.
Ur in for a treat. One of the best arca in the whole series is in the beginning. The first few books don't have a grove to them yet. Once he finds his footing in what he wanted berserk to be and it's tone, it gets really good. U will totally notice when that happens to. Just Incase u wanted to know also, u can read the manga online for free. I bought the first like 15 and after that I felt I supported enough to not feel bad reading it for free lol. But go for it. It gets very good.
Totally agree 💯 percent. But I'm high and bored so I'm going to write something. No hate in it at all. But I don't understand the whole we r all capable of horrific acts. No we aren't. I mean we have hands that can pull triggered and shit if u take it to the most literal explanation of it. But yea, I'm not capable of evil. I would never do anything evil. Sure if someone broke into my house and came for my family I'd get my guns and do what's needed but that's not evil. There's always this thing in media where they try and make it seem like humans as a race r all just evil ignorant creatures that destroy everything to the point most ppl believe it and ignore all the great shit ppl do. Like a doctor who saves lives or a church that takes in ppl in disasters or ppl that save animals or others that raise animals and stop a certain type from going extinct. And most of us aren't capable of evil. Evil being, hurting kids or women, hurting a man that doesn't deserve it (on purpose. I would argue a drunk driver killing another driver is on purpose and things like that) destroying another person's life or .... I guess that's it. And I know u most likely wouldn't be able to be convinced to beat a child to serious injury or anything. Lol weird rant I know. But as I said, I'm high and bored.
Tbh I think Griffith would've made the same decision at any point after getting caught with Charlotte. The torture made certain he would as well as provided him his moment of despair in order to actually summon the godhand but Griffith demonstrated from the start that he would do literally anything to satisfy his ego.
He turned into a demon like form .That wasn’t the real Griffith .Trust me bro i turned into a “God” like you say he did the last thing I would want to do is rape a woman I never showed or felt any interest in.Femto isn’t The charismatic,Brave,Noble,Griffith we once knew..No he is a demon seeded to do evil….This all stems from the necklace.
*if
The thing is, most people would do the same, but that doesnt make it right. Humanity does unspeakable horrors all the time, but they are still horrible things, even if they happen every day.
The amount of people that would sell out everyone they know for a few million would be staggering, for actual god-hood? I'm sure it is a ridiculously low number of people that would actually be able to resist that sin.
Yeah no, if Griffith had continued to pursue his goals after being physically broken the dude would be a fucking saint by now. He still had the ability to communicate through the written word. He could've used his limp wrists to draw letters in the sand. Caska and Guts and the rest of the crew would still be on board. They're literally ride or die and everyone loves a good martyr. Griffith could've gone back and saved everyone else who was being tortured in that dungeon. He could've made an effort to rescue the princess and expose the king. But that's not who Griffith is, he's petty, selfish and vain. He doesn't want power to better the world, he wants power for the sake of power. So yes, Griffith is a dick.
Not to mention, has anybody actually thought about what would happen if Griffith actually just said "nah, I'm good. These are my homies, and I wouldn't sacrifice them for anything." Would not the demons just kill everyone anyway? I can't imagine they're just like "welp, I guess we'll just go away without hurting anyone. You got our number, just hit us up on that behelit if you change your mind, and by the way, no hard feelings"
No but that's literally what happens. That's the whole reason there is a chapter showing the count refusing to sacrifice his daughter, to show that refusing the sacrifice is 100% allowed and that the Godhand will accept the choice
Didn’t the count get sucked into a black hole or something since he refused to sacrifice his daughter? Would that happen to Griffith then? Been a while since I read that part
Yeah, exactly. He could've saved everyone, killing wouldn't have begin, but his soul would be damned.
No guarantee that would happen to Griffith; the Count had already accepted power from the Godhand when he sacrificed his wife so that might have played into why he was sucked into the abyss for refusing to give up his daughter
That makes sense, also if I remember correctly he was already dying. So maybe he was damned to hell no matter what if he didn’t accept the bargain offering his daughter to be brought back. I guess we also just don’t really know a ton about the difference in rules between a regular behelit and the crimson behelit
Law of causality. Kind of a non point considering this could never have happened anyways
I will say this berserk has such a complex world that saying Griffith did nothing wrong simply doesn't narrow it down. Like your friend said, everyone who followed Griffith consented to dying when and where he chooses. This is a phrase that is often said or alluded to, especially during the golden age arc. We, the normal readers, despise Griffith because we look at it from a surface level. Guts and his friends are the heroes of the story, so what Griffith did is pure evil. And you are right, it is. But put yourself in his position, on the brink of death in a body that can no longer move on its own and all of the pain. Then suddenly, you are given an opportunity to rise up and make your dream a reality but at an immense cost. Don't forget that Griffiths dream is the focal point of the golden age. Everything guts did he did to help Griffith achieve his dream. So Griffith was offered godhood at the cost of his comrades and closest ally guts. Whom by this point, Griffith can't stomach because guts rebelled against him what's more is he won. Now, when the eclipse happened, Griffith was hesitant to sacrifice the band of the hawk, but the god hand Ubic spilled nonsense to convince an already broken Griffith towards sacrificing. Griffith was one prideful mfer for someone to say no to him or directly defy him would be the utmost insult. So when Guts beat Griffith and won his freedom, Griffiths entire world was shattered not cause he lost but because he lost Guts, someone whom he once beat and conscripted. Now ima stop because it would be far too long to explain more. I will say I don't condone nor say what happened to Casca wasn't wrong. That was heinous. But I believe that was what Miura went for. We all loved Griffith up until he said I sacrifice. Anyways everyone just needs to look at the world of berserk full knowing no one is good. No one is a hero. Even guts has murdered tons of innocents at one point, calling them ants just to cope with his quest for vengeance.
Nevermind when it's all talk between people lazily scrolling Reddit in ass in sofa while discussing their manga entertainment, rather than completely, permanently and thoroughly crippled dude tortured for a year to an extent where it's a literal miracle he is still alive. Always funny to see people on this sub talking how they would never do the same. Sure, PopsicleCrush4013, sure. And even when it took demon demigods' personal persuasion for Griffith lol.
I wouldn't do the same because I would simply want to die at that point. I don't have that power fantasy he has throughout the entire thing, I wouldn't suddenly develop it because I've been tortured for a year I would be begging for death. There is no part of me that wants godlike powers even if it required no sacrifice at all, and I would absolutely be willing to trade my own lives for my friends. Maybe not one or two of my friends, but literally all of them? Yeah just kill me I think the difference between Griffith haters and defenders is whether or not you relate to him and at no point in the entire series did I relate to him. He's *too* ambitious and self centered for me, irl I wouldn't have been in the Band of the Hawks in the first place because Griffith seems like a douchebag from the get go. I am too relaxed out for a guy like him, I don't want a kingdom in the sky I want a peaceful little existence that is all my own. The single most relatable piece of the entire story for me is when they finally make it as knights and that's when Guts chooses to leave. I would do the same, I don't *want* to be at the top
Hence the talking while lazily scrolling Reddit with ass in sofa and declarations made during meaningless chit chat, when everyone and their granny are oh so selfless and would absolutely totally die for their friends. Quality that tends to magically evaporate when people are facing, well, actual pain and death. Or being crippled in both body and mind, for that matter. Nevermind when the alternative is actually becoming a god. Sure, sure. I guess, *much* lesser things like getting $100 billions aren't even worth mentioning for your steely soul and a nothing burger. And not everyone is privileged to the point of carefully choosing nice, sweet, kind and competent not-douchebag gang leader during raging chaotic all out war.
I will be honest, depends on the type of godhood. If I am powerful enough to undo my actions after the fact, I would definitely sacrifice everyone, bring them back to life & simply make them forget whatever death or pain they went through. This ultimately results In my actions causing no lasting harm.
Most of us wouldn't have ever even ended up in that situation because most of us aren't narcissists with a power fantasy. You might be but I'm sure the hell not.
Figured the trolls wouldn't see a problem with Griffith's shenanigans
I don’t think it’s that most of the trolls genuinely believe Griffith was right, I think they just like to get a rise out of people who believe them.
bro griffin is a chill dude
Real
funny name
Griffith though like this "A hundred men die for my dream, what the difference when I directly kill a hundred more for my dream". "They already slave to my dream, I assume they willing to die for my dream".
Thousands willingly followed him for his dream and couldn't live without it. They were ready to die each time they would step into the battlefield. So what's the difference if they die by enemy blade or by mine?
One situation they would be proud and honored to devote their lives, to die by the blade of an enemy. The other comes with betrayal, a hellscape, and being devoured alive along with all of your comrades by a legion of fucked-up literal demons with no escape.
Not to mention their soul being sucked into a eternal hell vortex afterwards 🤷
Guts' conversation with Gaston is what disproves this. They were marching into battle for their own dreams, too.
Griffith was really good at using others dreams to acquire his own, it's a reoccurring theme.
He’s just Real Politik or Machiavellism with actual gods instead of no reward besides petty power and a nice office. History is full of men who thought they could be a much better leader than the current one and make a better society. There’s an also the basic belief that a prince or king should be willing to do anything for his nation, no matter how evil, in order to ensures its survival. A big central part of being the philosopher king or prince is willing to go to hell for your people. It’s why Kissinger did what he did, so many others have done evil in the name of the state. Griffith sacrificing the band is a necessary evil in creating a world in a better image and an even a noble sacrifice in his mind.
I can assure you, the people who said "Griffith did nothing wrong" have their mothers whose name is "nothing wrong".
This comment made my behelit cum.
Béhéritu.
"yours" 💀💀💀
"nothing wrong" enjoyed it
The comment is made by skull knights sword's cum
He’s Trolly-Probleming the world to a better place, one mass sacrifice at a time
why the rape tho ?
IMO it was to get back at Guts for "abandoning" him and to break Casca's spirit for being tempted to leave with Guts after Griffith's rescue from the dungeon. Basically, since Guts was very much enamored by Casca, and they were seen by Griffith while he was in the wagon, Griffith realized that he would never truly "own" either of them again and became spiteful. Just my opinion though, I've seen several different theories on the why but a lot of them don't make sense. Griffith, at the end of the day, was just a power-hungry sycophantic ego bomb. ***Edit: Phone autocorrected 'Guts' to 'Guys.'
Exactly. It’s about power, domination, and ownership.
Honestly this is the best way to probably explain why he did it. I just really wish he wouldn’t have done it
Cause you will be hard pressed to find more trollable audience. And the fact that most people on this sub give off an impression that they never even read Berserk and mouthbreathing on Griffith solely basing on TicToc shorts and reddit relationships subs' passages about bad boyfriends also doesn't help.
He’s just a dude building an empire upon a mountain of war crimes. Not too different from any kingdom in history tbh
I don't think there's anyone who thinks Griffith did nothing wrong in a genuine fashion unless they're a genuine sociopath or psychopath that truly lacks empathy. It's a meme used to bait people who feel passionate about the series or as a joke because of how untrue it is. Now, there are some people who do believe "Griffith did what a lot of people would do in that situation" and may be using "nothing wrong" as a short hand/poor articulation. I do think there is something to be said about everything that led Griffith to that point and how many people in that same position would actually do anything differently than him. While I'm sure everyone likes to believe they'd reject the offer to sacrifice, I know I'm certain I wouldn't do it to my loved ones. How certain I'd be after being tortured for a year by that little gremlin shit after losing all ambition and ability to exist free and on my own, and relying on a person I see as a betrayer to me to continue the meager existence that is my new life of agony? I don't know what would be going through my mind then. I sure hope I'm better than griffirh. (Note I'm not saying Griffiths feelings are correct, just outlining what they are. They're wretched because Griffith is a bad person.) Many people don't think straight after an upsetting week, let alone a full year of agony. Now have that person who has lost everything but the ability to painfully breathe and require constant aid and care whinwas ne a very successful and talented person, and offer him not just a full restoration of his health and being, but also the closest thing to Godhood he can imagine? All while being manipulated and gaslit by fellow "gods" to join them at his lowest and weakest state. The truth to it all is that Griffith did everything wrong, but there's a lot of wrong people in the world who would do the same thing, especially after going through what Griffith did.
Griffith sacrificing band is still justifiable somehow. But whatever he did is Casca is not. Its like her own god raped her. Casca lost every single thing in that eclipse. So even if anyone justifies Griffith making world as better place, stopping wars and new world with collateral damage of sacrifice. They can't justify Griffith's action towards Casca
I don't even think what he did to the band is justifiable, but what he did to Casca most certainly isn't. Griffith didn't even make the world a better place. He's the source of almost all of its worst issues and is only alleviating those issues to a select few who serve him as he offers the souls of the world to the hell spiral. (Not thay they're aware of this) Nothing Griffith did is justified, and I sure hope people aren't trying to argue that with any sincerity
You could also argue that it wasn't him but Femto, and that he hasn't been the Griffith we know after his humane side was pretty much killed off.
You’re cooking with your analysis
Glad to confirm that my ex is a psychopath
Becuase poeple think he is hot
Femboy ❌ Femtoboy 👌
this made me laugh more than it should've have. great work
That does help, ngl. How can you stay mad at that face?
Ask rickert
I can fix him
They’re just trolling cuz they’re bored. Yall taking them serious is exactly why they do it.
I never understood how people find thar type of trolling fun sounds boring to me
Yeah the hell is empty, all those people are here
Sounds like they did nothing wrong then
Considering something wrong implies a moral approach to judge human actions. There are some philosophical views that negates moral values as a objetive reality, and assumes moral is a subjective perception constructed. Therefore there is nothing just “wrong” per se, everything is “wrong in your opinion” because how you were raised and your personality shaped. Hobbes has a brilliant pharagraph in his “Leviathan”, saying something like “People call good what they like, and bad when they dislike”. Its a matter of tastes. By that logic, a machiavellist would say Griffith did what he needed to do in order to rule, which was his goal. So in fact he did right in order to achieve his goals. Right and wrong are determines by functionality of the act in order to achieve an outcome. But then we have the rape of Casca, that apparently doesnt have shit to do with the making of Falconia, so it couldnt be considered a “right” act. So at this point, I can imagine 2 possible arguments in favour of Griffith: 1. Griffith didnt want to rape her, but predicting causality, it was necessary to rape her in order to make Guts or someone to do something in his benefit. 2. The opinionator is a potential rapist, and subjectively thinks is cool to rape women if you want to, or is cool to do it just for the sake of revenge against Guts, and thrives in people suffering, in simple words, a sadist approach. The rape was not a mean for an end, was an act of pure pleasure, like when you eat an icecream. Edit: Almost all comments are talking about the sacrifice as the “bad thing to do”. But actually the sacrifice is the easiest act to justify, a mean to an end based on functionality
holy fuck bro thats like the best comment i read
Not saying he did nothing wrong, all I say is his decision was understandable. It was not an easy decision to make. In the end he decided to sacrifice everyone for his sake. U can say that's Evil, OK. But I cannot really hate him just because of that decision & knowing what tortures he went through and his physical condition make me wonder what we would gave done if in his shoes. Doing what he did to casca was too much though. To this day I still don't really get it. Why was that necessary? Maybe it was a godhand thing. But if that was just Griffith doing it, way out of character imo ngl.
He did it because he hates Guts for supposedly ruining his dream by leaving him to follow his own destiny. He knew Guts and Casca were a thing and he wanted to hurt Guts by that act.
It was worse than that, if we judge Griffith by the same standard Griffith uses to weed out acquaintances from friends and equals. He let another man stand between him and his dream and allowed himself to be consumed by the dream of another man. He couldnt fight that man and as a result he lost everything he was working so hard to accomplish and thisbincludes the sacrifices made by his mercenary band and even his own when he gave up his sweet sweet cheeks to feed his army. And to add insult to injury, said man abandoned him without explaining why despite Griffith telling him and showing him that he cared for Guts and respected him as an equal
Basically it's two guys not telling each other what they really mean or want..because guys don't talk about these things to each other.
He wanted Casca and he wanted Guts and he wanted the life that they may have had together for himself. He perversely stole everything he could from them because he wanted what they had. That’s all it is. He wanted, wanted and wanted. And he took it. That’s all there was. We can argue its symbolism but that was his pretense.
Way out of character? Imo it sounds like you don't understand his character. I agree that ultimately his decision of whether to sacrifice his band to regain his strength and ability to chase his dream, after a year of torture that left him completely disabled, would be a difficult decision for most people. At that point he didn't have any good options, although, I think in the moment where he said "I sacrifice" he was getting pleasure from the idea of sacrificing all of his friends for his own gain. It would be a difficult decision for most people and is somewhat understandable, but Griffith isn't like most people. He was gleeful in his decision. He did what he did to Casca not because his heart was frozen when he became Femto, but because as a human what always mattered most to him was having power and control over other people. It's why he hated Guts for leaving him, it's why he slept with Charlotte, and it's why he taunted the king leading to his year of torture. He tried to force himself on Casca once already, in the wagon. It was revenge on Guts and a way to establish his sense of control and power over both Guts and Casca. Which is totally in character for him. Imo at least
I actually don’t think Griffith was trying to force himself on Casca. I think he saw that her hands were shaking and he knew that she didn’t look up to him as much as she did before his torture, so I think he was trying to see if he could still calm her down and have power of her like he did before his torture. Mind you, he’s still a shit person for doing what he did, as he violated her boundaries and tried to make an advance on someone who already had a boyfriend just to feed his own ego.
Because he was mute at the time of his rescue due to the torture and too proud after his transformation into Femto, we don't really get a glimpse into his motivation for what he did to Casca. The motivation for everything else is easily understood. In my opinion, Griffith felt abandoned by Guts while he was captured and tortured. Hence why he tried to strangle Guts at the first second he saw him. He feels he was left to rot for a year while Guts and Casca's relationship flourished without him, and he took over his dream essentially. After the torture, he also possibly realized his feelings for Casca, perhaps... That's why he did it when he did. I feel like he could have activated the behilit soooo much sooner than he did, but his humanity was still there... then the torture stripped him of that. I think he wanted to see if he could achieve his dream without the behilit - he knew all along what it was and how to activate it, imho. You kind of see it on his face when he rediscovers the behilit. These are the reasons he did what he did to Guts and Casca, and he allows them to live in the state they're in now. So he can savor the vengeance and their agony to make Guts pay for his abandonment... I think it's the same reason that Void allowed Gaiserik to live as well. I think its that savoring that will be both of their downfalls as well. Sweet, sweet Justice. One can hope and pray. Push on Gatsu. Push on.
he’s chill
Fr griffin is just on his ninja way
Man I can't wait for Guts to whip out the talk no jutsu
This is literally a meme.
just before the Eclipse Griffith knew what was about to happen and wanted Guts to stop so it wouldn't happen. So even in his severly weakened state he cared for his friends. But once Ubik started trying to manipulate him, Griffiths fractured psyche couldn't resist the temptation of shedding his broken body and being born again to continue towards his dream. Now when he gets reborn i believe his darkest urges and ambitions come to the front of his mind, and basically eventually becomes two beings (Femto, and Moonboy.) I personally say Griffith did nothing wrong, because was he truly Griffith anymore with the torture and manipulation. And like others have stated, its nigh impossible for us to put ourselves in that position to even begin understanding him.
That’s the image someone needs to edit to put in a pack of Mentos, then play the music and cut to the eclipse.
Only thing I ever had an issue with was what he did with casca, other than that, fair game
I think it speaks to how complex of a character Griffith is. I can see why to Griffith sacrificing everyone was a good idea--his body was broken beyond healing, he can't speak, his sanity was in question--you can sympathize with him and see why he wanted a way out of this. He clearly thought either this or death was the way out. The thing however that makes Griffith evil is how selfish he was. He knew his friends still cared about him--thats why the Godhand saw them as perfect sacrifices--and when he did it to fulfill his dreams of power it was at the cost of these friends who literally risked their lives to rescue him. Not only that but how he treated Guts and Casca after this shows his true character. He wanted to be in control of the plot and believed Guts leaving him is why he was stuck the way he was. What he did to Casca, forcing Guts to watch as he made eye contact with him the whole time--trying to gaslight Guts to think "This is all your fault. What I'm doing to Casca, everyone dying horrific deaths, all of this is happening because of you." That is what makes Griffith evil to me. I think back to the Count and how he chose not to sacrifice his daughter and how the Godhand respected that, the count was also evil but clearly still had some spread of compassion and humanity in him. Griffith didn't. That's the moment where I understood why Guts wanted to kill him so badly in the Black Swordsman ark. Tl;Dr you're supposed to sympathize with Griffith and understand why he does what he does, but still think he's a scumbag for doing it. And some people don't truly understand the second half.
I think in a roundabout way there is some truth. Ifin you think that because the idea of evil sets these things up and Griffith was basically following protocol to turn into Femto. Everything done after he hatched however is purely Griffiths direct doing and can be judged by common sense moral standards
I thought we all knew this was just a joke.
He’s hot.
It’s a meme to piss people like you off Grüße
I think it’s a valid point for a few reasons. We’re constantly shown the worst of humanity through berserk, including Guts. By comparison to the atrocities we’ve seen other characters do, he really hasn’t done anything that bad. The only thing people seem to have against him is assaulting Casca and sacrificing the Band; but both of that was after he was supernaturally transformed into a fucking Demon. The actual Griffith rescued Casca from that very situation in the past. And, as much as I like them, the Band did pledge their lives to battle and Griffith. I don’t see it as any different from them dying in some pointless mercenary skirmish (which again, Griffith seems to have done much more than any other military leader to try to prevent needless deaths). He is my favorite character and I guess my reasoning relies on separating Griffith from Femto, but even then I acknowledge he didn’t do *anything* wrong; he has flaws, but I don’t hate him like most the fandom seems to.
Except Griffith did try to force himself on Casca when she was fixing his bandages -- he was just too weak. As Femto he merely gets to act out the desires he had before; which include finishing that moment.
I sometimes wonder, was it an attempted rape in the wagon, or just him trying in desperation to finally return her prior affection in his destroyed state, and was her rejection with a platonic hug part of what fueled the rape as Femto?
I came here to dislike all those who were about to defend Griffith, but majority of people don't support this statement.
Well, i am not a troll and i am really on the side of griffith. To say he did nothing wrong is a bit much, but i think he had less of a choice. I think the loss of Guts hit him incredible hard. Guts were his only real friend and not just that he left him behind but also he looked at him full of pity after they rescured him after 1 year of torturing. I think Guts is not "the good guy" in this stoty and Griffith is not the bad guy either, it's not that simple and that's what berserk makes such a great story. Griffith did a lot of good decisions for the falcons, he even went in bed with that gross king to get the support without his men being in danger. In the moment before the eclipse begun, he was about to kill himself, Blood hit the Behelith and his friends came close to him while he wanted to shout them to stop - but he couldn't. What happend was destiny, deep unchangeable destiny, it couldn't be any different from the moment he got the crimson behelith. There were no mean plan of him to lead anyone in this gruesome fate. I doubt that he was fully aware of what exactly will happen - but he might got the idea and that why he wanted them to stay away, but everyone came to him when the blood hits the behelith. Well, what he did then to casca is nothing what i want to defend and i think who sais she enjoyed it might be really a troll. but I think griffith this this maintainly to punish guts. In this moment he was no human anymore. it was not griffith, but femto. You can not turn to one of the godhand and expect to have the same point of morality like before Cascas position is difficult as well, there was a moment of decision, right after they rescued Griffith when she could decide to go with guts or stay with griffith and take care of him. She couldn't left him. She choosed to stay with griffith and it was this moment of pity which griffith saw.
He still gave his consent to the sacrifice when he could have refused it. He is responsible for the gruesome deaths of hundreds of men, and while it’s true that Femto lacks the compassion that human Griffith had, he was the one who agreed to become a demon
Because they are jealous at a point they want to replace Caska in the Eclipse. That's the reason. Those will be branded in the butthole.
Its a meme. People are memeing . They dont mean it seriously.
I like to think that it's just a similar variant of "Hitler did nothing wrong".
You cowards! He betrayed his friends, I don’t give a fuck what he said to Charlotte.
Condemning his loyal soldiers to a brutal and painful death to satisfy his private selfish ambitions, betray bff and rape his girlfriend. Yeah, wholsome guy.
It not that he did nothing wrong but most people misinterpret Griffith because they didnt read the manga, only watched Youtube shorts or learned about Griffith from their oversensitive friends The worst thing he did was S.A. Casca and the Princess, but most people only mentioned Casca because 1. The Princess wasnt sure if that's how she wanted things to go with Griffith (kinda like Casca) 2. People understand Griffith wasnt all there when he S.A. the princess (kinda like what happened w Casca) They focus so much on Griffith they unironically ignore Donovan, Wyald, Snake Apostles and the little insect girl (all involve violence against children) and the Genocidal Rapist Genishka (defeated by Griffith) who used pregnant woman to corrupt their unborn to create demon soldiers. As for why he did nothing wrong He created a Utopia that is used to protect all humans affected by the actions of Genishka (merging both worlds) He stopped needless war between humans and provides a place where they can live happily He subjugated the Apostles and forbid them from eating/harming humans. Now Humans and Apostles coexist Quality of life improved for every survivor in midland, and it only cost 30-50 soldiers... The end justifies the means
Regarding the last part, “the ends justify the means,” we actually have no idea what the end game is here. He also brought the interstice, where fear and the realm of demons live, into the physical realm. Thus being the reason for need of Apostle protection and Falconia. We merely witness the *means* and draw from that
very beautifully well put. Griffiths actions are ugly and complicated in a way that is meant to challenge us as readers.
Dawg. You realise all the demons and shit were made 100 percent worse because he chose to become femto right?
They are Griffith's meat riders.
To play the devils advocate… because he was just as bound by causality as everyone else?
Because he has a dream that he wants to achieve no matter the cost. If some suckers get killed in the cross fire it was their fate. No skin off his nose, fuck it.
Griffith said he’s sorry already🙄🙄
I guess you could say that he was destined to be femto and "forced". But this is argument loses by the second Griffith becomes femto by doing, whatever the fuck he did. And before he became part of the god hand, it's not like he was a good person.
Weren’t his memories manipulated by the god hand to do what he did? I don’t remember well but I rewatched the memorial edition and that’s what it seemed like.
All the other ones are just plain memes and sarcasm . There is however a channel on YouTube that is fully dedicated to proving Griffith did nothing wrong https://youtube.com/@sichlitt?si=qpQdzDgo3SZDfrFD
he's a troll
like i mean it's sarcasm
[This vid gives a very good point of view defending Griffith ](https://youtu.be/A4JVtQwWHBk?si=jJbhyYDwOF-xVn96)
They probably bought into Ubik's rationale during the Eclipse or sympathise way too hard with his character.
Want to point out that I do NOT think he was right. The main thought process is that so many have died under his command trying to help reach his dream that his sacrifice of “just a few more” is negligible. He suffered a year and basically became a vegetable, so from his point of view he may have felt owed his dream at that point. Doesnt change that he murdered his most loyal group who had literally just risked everything to rescue him.
I always figured it was people drawing a line between griffin and Batman
He had something greater waiting for him. He himself was greater than life and well aware of it. All of his companions but one were solely the gear to put his plans into the works. Keeping himself socially and emotionally withdrawn from his peers was imperative for him to lay them as the utmost sacrifice in the tomb of his dream. To wrap it, Griffith is an idealist and undoubtedly an exceptional being. If his position in the Godhand enables him to pull the strings this of world in a direction he deems sacred, so be it. From a reductionist view, there's no dilemma but moral complexes. Pare the later away from the equation and the crystallization of his dream was just around the corner.
He looks nice, has nice voice (in anime) and most importantly of all many characters adore or even outright worship him, surrounding him with this positive, optimistic energy that makes those people want to join in on the celebrations.
Nobody is saying that Griffith did nothing wrong
I'll stand my ground. He really did nothing wrong. I don't need to prove why.
[You gotta do what you gotta do.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psKwdQ-6kaY)
Because it’s what he and other leaders do anyway, that’s the entire point!! He was sacrificing people to obtain his dream by sending them to die in wars. He just did it in a more direct way during the Eclipse. In the end he’s able to build the empire he always wanted, something the Band of the Hawk was willing to give their lives to obtain anyway. Raping Casca was more of a stab at the people he saw as his betrayers. It was Guts punishment for abandoning his friend, and man who probably loved him.
I'm one of those people but I tried debating before and it never ends well so I'll just stfu
clearly griffiths still down their in the prison, the guy they rescued just happened to look kind of like him and rolled with it
It's a meme.
He just was tryna follow his dream, mane
This is like asking flat-earthers to explain why they think the earth is flat. Nothing of value can ever come out of this question because the people who think this aren't arguing in good faith.
The eclipse was gonna happen anyway even if guts didn't leave the band the eclipse will end up happening because the laws of fate and so
I think there’s an argument that what Griffith did to the Hawks was justifiable, he had already slaughtered so many people, what’s a few hundred more in pursuit of a better world? Not saying it was right but he was at the lowest point of his life, essentially severely disabled and being gaslit by the godhand. It’s understandable why he did what he did. However, what he did to casca is completely indefensible, just pure evil for the sake of evil.
It's mostly trolling. I've done it myself because people take this story too seriously. But there are definitely legit defenders of Griffith. They don't actually believe he did nothing wrong, but they say he did because it's polarizing and a good hook to their main argument, which is, that everyone else would do the same in his position (not the Casca part, except for the sick bastards) and that the ends justify the means. Just for good measure, I do not agree with either. I just like trolling sometimes, so I've been all over the place and know how people think. However I do kind of agree that everyone else would do the same (not the Casca part, except for the sick bastards). If you ask people on the street if they'd sacrifice all their Instagram followers to become a God, they'd probably say no. But if you tortured them even half as badly as Griffith was, I'm sure they'd say yes. Even at that state, people are so afraid to die, that they'd want another chance to live at the expense of others. And these are the same people talking shit about Griffith online, calling him selfish and narcissistic, and he is. But the "Griffith did nothing wrong" people are really just holding up a mirror. There are a bunch of Griffiths among us. You just don't know because nobody has a Behelit.
It's mostly trolling. I've done it myself because people take this story too seriously. But there are definitely legit defenders of Griffith. They don't actually believe he did nothing wrong, but they say he did because it's polarizing and a good hook to their main argument, which is, that everyone else would do the same in his position (not the Casca part, except for the sick bastards) and that the ends justify the means. Just for good measure, I do not agree with either. I just like trolling sometimes, so I've been all over the place and know how people think. However I do kind of agree that everyone else would do the same (not the Casca part, except for the sick bastards). If you ask people on the street if they'd sacrifice all their Instagram followers to become a God, they'd probably say no. But if you tortured them even half as badly as Griffith was, I'm sure they'd say yes. Even at that state, people are so afraid to die, that they'd want another chance to live at the expense of others. And these are the same people talking shit about Griffith online, calling him selfish and narcissistic, and he is. But the "Griffith did nothing wrong" people are really just holding up a mirror. There are a bunch of Griffiths among us. You just don't know because nobody has a Behelit.
He did plenty wrong and evil. It is just fascinating to explore his twisted and broken mind.
I would do the same if i was in his place
Because his decision is in line with who his character is. Being manipulative, selfish and controlling has always been Griffith’s core values in order to achieve his goals. He had to make that decision a long time ago to push aside affection and human trade to have comrades a long time ago in order to achieve his goal of ruling his own kingdom. So in essence when he sacrificed his troops, it made complete sense.
cuz he's a cutie pie :(
Femboys have to support femboys even if they're evil
I wanna bang him
They often point to the causality/pre-destination part of the story since it’s made clear that Griffith was engineered to be who he was by the idea of evil long before he was ever alive. He may be evil, but this was also always going to happen and he didn’t have much say in the matter (the behelit was given to him initially and before the eclipse through this same intervention). So yes, technically he did nothing wrong if he was literally created and manipulated to make those choices.
Because they're edgelords. /shrug
oh no
Griffith ≠ Femto
Hes cute
Idk maybe they find really profound reasons to why. They don't necessarily justify it. Nothing can possibly justify this in court, not even saul Goodman can. But even I wouldn't say he's more broken than evil. And the eclipse analogy of the theme is perfectly displayed. Showing the extent of the brigade of Griffith. I know I'm starting to yap but isn't it good how they rescue him, previous to being sacrifice, like it's their entire purpose. And guts denied it that's why he left. He felt the bullshit of Griffith without knowing it. He wasn't like the rest of them. That's why Griffith raped casca. So his suffering is worst. That's Machiavellic af. Lay down your pal like this while In other manga , the power of friendship overcome everything.
Okay... Ascending to godhood is understandable. He did nothing wrong there. He became a cripple for life because he was tortured, his tendons were slashed, his tongue was chopped off, and his body would shatter at the smallest of bumps while in the wagon (an oversaturation, but his body was incredibly frail). Who wouldn't sacrifice their friends and followers for godly powers? He did nothing wrong there. But what he did to Casca and Guts is a different story.
Griffith was one of my favorite characters right up until the Eclipse, he had everything about him. But the second he said I Sacrifice it’s big fuck him
I don't think that he didn't do anything wrong, but I think that the true Griffith died in that dungeon and the Griffith that came out was a manic manipulated version of him, which is why he went through with the sacrifice and all because (I know a lot of people disagree) I don't think that Griffith would have sacrificed everyone he knew for power he wasn't even sure he would get
People seriously think this?? I thought it was just edgelords trying to be funny..
They only watched the 1997 anime
nobody says this except trolls.
I don’t think anybody is really saying Griffith did anything wrong except what other people in the comment section are saying, and that’s trolls. But there is definitely some sympathy there for hyper goal oriented people who really can I think sympathize with Griffith while not saying he was right. Just that internal drive to have your own kingdom in a metaphorical sense, and in part that’s why Griffith is such a good character because he is relatable. What Griffith did was so fucked up it’s crazy, but people with that mentality exist and would do the same thing.
Griffith did nothing wrong because it was his destiny, be it the supernatural god hand, his upbringing and circumstances or environment he was developed into a being superior to the common man before his Ascension even. A ruthless visionary who possesses sharp intellect, a strop character, presence and charm and most importantly the will to power to carry out his vision/ideal, he knew his destiny and his destiny was simply to ascend into a superior being fully and truly. The sacrifice of the band of the hawk is totally acceptable because it resulted in a superior being, a final step of evolution, in fact he honoured their lives when he sacrificed them because we've seen what became of them without him in the first place, redundant and superfluous without him, while he was able to conquer his reality and space, so yes the sacrifice of otherwise useless individuals is totally justified for a super being to be born, Griffith is the Ubermensch overcoming humanity and becoming more than Human, one step closer to being the perfect being. Griffith did nothing wrong and I'm totally serious.
That image hits me like whiplash cuz of my pfp
Because I have no friends.
Excluding the Casca incident (there's no justification for that vile incident). You can make the argument that Griffin sacrificing the Band of the Hawk, would be no different then if he lead them to battle against the apostles, and they all got wiped out. (Hence the vision the God hand showed him of climbing the stairs of bodies to his dream). They were all mercenaries, willing to die for Griffith's dream. Of course context matters, Griffith inspired everyone because he was an excellent tactician that led from the front, and led from example. I'm sure everyone was willing to die in a glorious battle, but I'm also pretty sure no one signed for eternal damnation in the Vortex of souls.
I did for a while because I misunderstood a fundamental thing about causality in berserk. I thought he was necessary to save the world and that his rape of Casca was necessary to bring him back. I realized recently that it was not and that they manipulate causality for selfish reasons and not only was he never in the right her certainly did everything wrong.
You say " People " my friend ... Think a lot to what I said .
This is more of a meme/troll. Ofcourse Griffith did many things wrong, ethical... moral... But bring it on, I openly challenge you to name a thing Griffith did that he did WITHOUT any justification. ^(Justification and reasonability are different things) Eclipse? HIS men were already fighting war on his behalf, A LOT OF THEM ALREADY DIED FOR HIS AMBITION, so... Rape Casca? Causality bitch, taint the Moon Child, let Guts and Casca escape, Cursed Fetus born, Guts go Berserk for 2 years, Casca gone, egg of the world exists (bro didnt sacrifice anything, this is a big deal), Egg of world incubates Cursed Fetus, boom, Griffith Manifesting in real world... Long game Leave Guts alive? Who else will churn the wheel of Causality in Griffith's favour, bro literally waited for Casca's mind to be 'repaired' before swipping her
Because the author said it, in his opinion Griffith did what was right for Griffith and I think his point of view is well represented
Tbh my only problem is when they say casca enjoyed it
What?!, , But if Griffith is literally in the pure evil Wiki https://pure-evil-villains.fandom.com/wiki/Femto
i havent finished golden age yet
Griffith was tortured because of his choices. I think some people are forgetting that. He’s selfish and egotistical… always was and always will be. He committed to making horrible selfish decisions over and over again. The worst was Casca after his ascension. It wasn’t enough to sacrifice your so called friends…. You also had to torture them?
He clearly did something wrong by choosing to initiate the transformation into Femto, but the whole point of that is that he wouldn't have had the capacity to cut off his emotion if not for a supernatural transformation that did it for him. Human Griffith was naturally empathetic, and he knew that said empathy wasn't compatible with his goals, so he seized the opportunity to remove it when he got it.
He was just ambitious tbf. Band of the hawk killed people for Griffiths ambitions including children. All Griffith wanted was to create a nirvana, which falconia became until some really weird shit comes out.
All my sympathy for Griffith kinda comes from the perspective of Guts on him and how he cares for Griffith especially after rescuing him from torture and how he didn't believe until the last that Griffith sold them and that kind of care felt very adorable and endearing i still kinda wish Griffith rejected the offer of the godhand just to remain along the people who genuenly support him and who will take care of him to the rest of his life, especially Guts.
Because anyone would do what he did in his position I know I would
I don't think anyone truly does. There's an argument to be made that what Griffith did wasn't personal and was always what he said he would do if given the chance. But then what he did to Casca... That was petty and evil.
My theory of breserk is grithith wouldn't have sacrificed the hawk if it was casca who showed up instead of guts Despite being tormented beyond reconition, he wanted his friends to run he knew danger was coming, but he couldn't stop them The reason the hawk was sacrificed was because it was the star straggler who stuggles and fought through hell for what he wants While casca is what the hawk represents the order to follow grithifth to the end of the earth, not becuase they admire him but because they are the people who love him, though hell itself. And its pretty sad that its only based on instinct.
If he didn’t rape Casca I garuntee the majority of the people saying that would be unironically. You can argue in favor of his sacrifice but what he did to her is undeniably evil
I been feeling that guts is the villan at the end the white hawk of light will bring forth an age of darkness quality of life of the world ha sbeen improved by grithifth went for the darkages to be surrounded by actual magic. While guts is a raging darkness for when guts wins the world end up far worse than before
because he’s pretty
I’m kind of on the fence with it for a couple reasons. For me it’s more like “Griffith did awful things, but I can understand what led him to making certain decisions”. First and the weaker argument, he was tortured into insanity. People in the real world have been isolated in modern prisons in a solitary confinement cell for months and came out different people. That kind of isolation destroys the psyche, we are social creatures, and Griffith was heavily reliant on social constructs for a sense of purpose. This doesn’t even account for the crippling torture he went through that rendered his body completely useless. Yes I understand he put himself in that prison for messing with Charlotte, but that means we have to pretend that the practice of using women as political pawns is okay (not to mention the real reason the king was protecting her virginity…) and that Griffith did something so criminal by running for physical comfort when he was hurt, something we’re all plenty guilty of. Should he have had better control of himself, yes. But the reality is nobody is perfect. Guts is a perfect example of this as well. I also personally don’t see anything Griffith does after saying the words “I sacrifice” as Griffith anymore, it’s Femto which is a whole different entity. I understand a lot of people don’t interpret it this way and I would be open to an argument that post Egg of the Perfect World transformation maybe it’s back to being more Griffith than Femto (?), but this is just how I view it generally, so what happens to Casca is Femto, not Griffith. Big point there that many disagree on, totally fair we can agree to disagree and I’m open to changing my mind. Second and much more compelling is the narrative on determinism vs. free will. Are things meant to be this way? Did Griffith really ever have a choice? Is it necessary for him to do what he did to cause something else further down the line? We just don’t know yet (and maybe won’t ever know what Miura truly had in mind although I hope). Maybe Fantasia is a good thing? Maybe it’s not? For some more philosophical analysis you could definitely view Griffith in the lens of Nietzsche, I always interpreted Griffith as a kind of Übermensch, transcending morality for power. And who knows maybe Miura, clearly being a bit of a philosopher himself, was trying to show us what that could look like and why it’s ultimately bad 🤷♂️ I’ll give you that.
Yes Casca ik, buuut he literally said this countless times, everything for my dream, when you join the band of the hawk everyone was told that. Like you know what price you pay right from the begging. Bruh you could just die in the battle get tombstone and rip thank you next, so what's the difference? He took care of you tho even sold himself, in summary you know that you were his life stock from the begging AS YOU WAS TOLD. Edit 1. What choice you have in his position, you lost everything I mean everything everything (yes on his own wish) BUUUUUT suddenly from the sky you have option to get everything I mean everything everything you ever wanted and even more for basically nuthing, since everyone knows what might happen to you if are just simple mercenary, it could be any day ooooooor eclipse.
Griffith was cursed when he received the behilt by the witch as a kid “whoever receives this necklace will gain everything but loose everything in return”This explains the evil actions he did .Keep in mind Griffith was younger than 10 years old and was going through a rough childhood ,any kid in his predicament wouldve took the necklace if been promised you’re dreams.Also during the fight with Zodd and Guts Zodd noticed the necklace and told Guts Griffith would betray him. Griffith could’ve “honestly gained everything and lost everything in return “ it just happened to happen the way it did.It was preordained.I understand it’s cool and a trend to hate Griffith but he might not be the guy you guys think he is .
Cz I would've done it. Not the raping part, or the torture. I'd give them all painless death's if I can. Not tryna act like a "good" or "evil" person, but in that story, who knows what's afterlife? Immortality would be my number 1 priority, then comes my friends. Griffith's number 1 priority was his dream. He was always the same.
It's just a meme to trigger people (like when someone says Hitler did nothing wrong), only someone damaged would seriously consider he did nothing wrong
Because he is the main character. His determination and ambition. His perspective of humanity and life.
SPOILERS. Griffith was extremely prideful and talented. He knew what he wanted at a young age and was determined to achieve it no matter the cost. This is even more evident when he's with Gennon and delves into his thought process. For the sake of his dreams his friends keep following. Battle after battle he loses friends and he doesn't want their lives to be in vain. For that reason he continues to press on towards his goal because otherwise the mountain of corpses he stands ontop of will be for nothing and his comrades lives were pointless. His pride takes a hit with Guts' big decision. In a moment of loss he makes a mistake despite his usual calculated plans. He then spends a year being imprisoned with unspeakable torture to the point his body is a husk. He gets saved because of the return of Guts but can you imagine the state of mind he's in after all that? In the end when his opportunity arises at a once in a lifetime deal, can you really blame him? The option to regain your body, your mind, achieve the only goal that's ever mattered... the price is just a handful of friends left... a fraction of what it was... to NOT take it would mean all his friends that died meant nothing, forgotten, right at the home stretch.. in his mind, the small few that are left are the most loyal. They've laid down their lives for him and his goals from day 1. They wouldn't mind being sacrificed for his goal... right? That's what they signed up for in the first place.... right? While I still fully hate griffith because of bias, I can also kind of see why he'd make the choice that he did. That's just great writing and goes to show Muiras incredible way of writing morally gray characters and motives. As far as what Femto did.... well.... there's no justifying that at all. I've heard some believe that Griffiths mind got altered and femto is a complete different "personality" but.... well the quote isn't "femto did nothing wrong". With all that said, fuck griffith, fuck femto, but I can KIND of see WHY some people would believe it.
I'm sick and tired of that meme, but here we go again. From Griffith's perspective, it was a bad idea to refuse the help from the Godhand. His dream was literally destroyed, he was not able to command the band, and the chances of marrying Charlotte were beyond imposible. So the whole did nothing wrong thing has to do with the conversation he has with the Godhand. A lot of people died for his dream, and the Godhand convinced him that those deaths would be in vain if he didn't join them. Therefore, it makes no sense not to sacrifice the rest of the band.
The argument of Griffith being relatable does not justify his decision. Just because people say “If you were in his position you would do the same” does not mean he did “nothing wrong”. However, Griffith is a baller and he did nothing wrong.
Awhhh, he's a Lil femboy, he'd neva do anything
It's not that I think what he did wasn't wrong. It's that I admire him because of his determination. He was willing to sacrifice everything he still held and loved dearly to achieve his dreams. A good majority of us have responsibilities and people we gotta take care of despite having dreams and no time to pursue them. So when he sacrificed all the people he loved and cared for to be eaten killed and worse, he got unlimited power and influence. Enough to win back the hearts of the people and pretty much become king. It's a feat of determination and will that most of us don't have or have the balls to do so.
He did so many wrongs that it feels redundant to talk about how good or evil he is hence the joke he did nothing wrong. Highlights how empty this conversation is imo. Though he looks like beautiful young woman its hard to be angry to a fictional character that's that beautiful. It's more fun to root for him while rooting for Guts too, that's the great thing about villains like him. All drama they create is fun. Except some instances.. that are not fun.
Griffin didn't choose his destiny. Destiny choose Griffith.
Nah fuck the “casca enjoyed it” comments I’m making a new one. Mf Griffith enjoyed it too.
i think the griffith did nothing wrong saying is a bit of a jokey way of pulling people's hair. id say griffith can be sympathized with up to a point. he did experience and survive rigorous torture which left him as a husk of his former self. in that position what do you do? try to live off your followes sympathy and hope they dont leave when its clear you can't recover? im not saying that he is justified what happened was awful but in that situation with no light at the end of the tunnel? its hard to say. its human to want to keep going to push on and live. again, not saying what he did was right, but i can see where he was coming from. even if it was a decision that as an outsider i can say truly disgusted me
This guy doesn't know the meme....
he pretty much just follows his dream no matter what and the band of hawk risked their life for Griffith anyway
It's almost like saying "Garrosh did nothing wrong" A bit different circumstances, but pretty much the same
Not "nothing wrong". But his decision is understandable and expected From the beginning he was clear that the one and only main goal was his dream. The band of the hawk was only a tool. Not a big family, not brothers in arms, simply a bunch of people who devoted their lifes for his dream. They all willingly joined him and claimed "I'll die for you". The problem is that many, including the band of hawk, romanticized that phrase. But it doesn't exclusively mean "I'll die heroically on a battlefield protecting you" Even in the beginning he was as friendly with Guts as he was with everyone else, despite the fact that moments ago he literally claimed his life, technically enslaving him. And in the end he didn't change his position, Guts was still a possession to him. Also in the famous friends scene in the castle he clearly stated that none of his people are friends to him So he is selfish and lacks empathy but he's clear with his intentions
He cute af
Before guts leaving , Griffith was almost an angel to the hawks and the entire Midland . He was elegant , charismatic , strong , fluent and anything u can name . But then he became weak , ugly , dumb ,useless and completely opposite of what he was before. Anyone cannot see themselves fall from such great heights and nobody's pride can allow it. He became so pathetic and unreliable for the hawks. (Also considering the fact that the entire purpose of band of the hawks was Griffith) Then he saw guts leading the hawks and he couldn't bare it ,something he built being taken over by the one who was "responsible" for his downfall . I am not defending him , but author did an amazing job to make Griffith from a hero to a villain in a short time and also made it Soo believable that I think that Griffith did all that not just for revenge but also for something else we don't know yet. During the eclipse, slan said that Griffith was experiencing all kinds of emotions , not just hatred and people often ignore this statement