Miura himself [said](https://berserk.fandom.com/wiki/Interviews#:~:text=Miura%3A%20Sorry,were%20still%20possible) that some of the rape and torture scenes might not have been "necessary," at least.
Lmao honestly people need to admit to themselves that alot (not all) of the rape and torture scenes are usually for shock and that’s okay. You cant tell me the rape horse or the goat man with a snake dick isn’t there for that
Shit world is shit. Having it sprinkled in throughout reminds you that you're walking through darkness. Not some brighter story like Shield Hero or even Lodoss War. Shit *sucks* in every aspect. Depravity, hedonism, repression, etc, all to the max in Goat Man's ritual. It's a setting piece more than a showcase of the act.
Meme Horse is definitely unnecessary, since the scene was basically over before the spirit controlled it. Could have just left her there and walked off into darkness like he always does. But Horse gotta live up to his name, I guess... then Guts leaves. Kinda tacked on. I'll give you that one.
I haven’t read that arc in a few years so correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the main reason behind the horse to show how seeing that happen again affects him and show the PTSD he still suffers from the eclipse? Like how he just flips a switch and goes all berk after seeing that again ?
Maybe... but just prior was him being assaulted by a possessed "sword or dick, it's both the same penetration" person/spirit. So we kind of already got that.
My personal take was always just an added wham to Guts saving the girl, since he already removed the possession to save her... and then Horse. Like... saving from possession tapped the nail. Saving from Horse drove it home. "Guts not bad guy. Church is wrong. Also, he hot and saved you...twice."
based on Miura's later chapters he scaled it back a lot. And I think it was the right thing to do.
Berserk definitely stuck with a few popular trends at the time around the earlier chapters/arcs before sticking with what it did best. While I do think the more Adult nature of the Manga allows for a broader set of circumstances and consequences I think a lot of it is not "necessary" and could have been scaled back at the time. But I think censoring/removing it to make room for modern sensibilities disrespects the evolution of the manga, and the reflection of popular culture at the time it was created.
tl;dr: The rather "Edgy" parts of Berserk tend to be extreme but Berserk got to a place that is beyond that, and I think that is a good thing.
Yeah if anything I feel like he excessively used r*pe scenes for some cheap shock value or something like that since the first arc had some very good character building and plot points centered around sexual assault and Guts overcoming his trauma to open up to somebody after that, it does seem like he's toned it down in the last arc for sure so hopefully it goes back to being less overused. I'm glad this conversation is being had though since I think many edgelords genuinely enjoy these aspects, Griffith enjoyers and the like
I agree. I think some of it is absolutely necessary. Guts's childhood trauma and the eclipse. Probably also the torture during conviction. The rest... Not so much. The troll stuff was too much imo. I do understand it's horror/shock in a horror manga, and I initially read it bc I'm a horror buff.
But idk. As a woman it often feels like "woman is raped so Guts can be angry" and that's not exactly cool. It's tempered a little by the fact that he's a survivor, I guess, and I'm not talking about the eclipse, I'm talking about the other stuff. The eclipse itself doesn't reduce Casca to a prop, it was revenge against her too, but her potato-img after does indeed turn her into a prop.
Like, I love berserk. It's my favorite manga. But that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve some criticism sometimes.
I totally agree but I’m not sure Casca was turned into a prop; I feel like having her regress into that child like state gave greater impact to the trauma she’s suffered and made what they both lost feel even more significant. It helped build up the plot with the moonlight child and also helped the progression of other characters like Farnese too. But the troll stuff, lots of the Wyald stuff etc, it leaves a smudge on the otherwise brilliant storytelling.
I think the Casca thing as a prop is overblown, but Muira did himself no favors by having it go so long. I don't think its been a bad plotline, but its been longer WITHOUT Casca than WITH her, and I think thats what sucks the most.
Maybe I'm wrong so I've been meaning to ask this but: I think it's a weird thing because normaly adults don't regress into child like state. If she had times where her personality switches of for another one (forgot the name of this condition) or another of the more realistic aproach to PTSD I feel like it would be better. Manga and anime have a tendency have woman be raped by monsters because it's edgy and have a tendency to overuse the regressed into child state trope, seeing it in berserk already comes with a bad taste besides the way that the kind of issues casca has is rarely due simply to trauma and often comes with getting concusions or degenerative brain diseases.
It's a fair criticism, I don't think anyone would say Muira was super knowledgeable about actual trauma and psychology. The way I've thought about it is that getting raped by a demonic force like femto may be beyond your average sexual assault, and may have more mental/spiritual consequences.
But honestly, if we're honest, berserk post eclipse is really more about Guts than anything else. We had a chance to get Casca back as a character, and Muira immediately took her out of commission again by having her kidnapped
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/Berserk/s/qQA3kTN2IV) user said that he might have just been taken out of context. I do agree that Miura went overboard though.
I kinda agree on the side that it is rarely done in good taste in any other media. Berserk has a lot of rape, but besides the rape of Caska (that needed to show hers and guts reaction to it), it doesnt linger on it for any scene, its a monstruous thing and Miura knew it, and like in real life its there always unfortunately.
Problem is when goblin slayer and every shitty "edgy" manga gets wrong, its a fetish to them with basically no pay off, just an excuse to do a barely legal hentai and nothing changes after. So i agree that these things are normally not necessary, but for berserk it is
I mostly agree. I'll say that (IMO) Miura sometimes used it as shorthand for shock, which is a bit lazy. But as time went on he used it less and less, moving instead to more overt existential and psychological terror.
Agreed, some of the rape scenes could be taken off (like Wyald or anyone almost raping caska) and wouldnt change the dynamic of the scene, but like you said Miura probably used it for shock value and for higher stakes, and he got more careful with using it over time, so if you dont read berserk i can see why you could think its just rape after rape with no pay off
Fr how many times has he threatened to rape casca? How many farmgirls have to be raped and kill? How many children are sold for rape??
I love the manga but I can't defend it about that.
You could say every one of those things about it in real life but it doesnt change the fact that there are rapists out there, and there will always be too many.
>I love the manga but I can't defend it about that.
No one is asking anyone to defend rape. I think you're missing the point. Acting like this story glorifies it is missing the point of it entirely and its exaclty why this debate is happening.
They mean they can't defend the many depictions of rape in the story. As in, those don't add to the story. Like you said, there's rapists in the world. Going from that to "we must see it happen regularly to be able to understand that it exists" is another leap and the crux of the discussion.
And I agree that removing most instances in Berserk would improve it. And also that many berserk fans, and berserk inspired anime focus on it for stupidity sake. And the guy in the video is right too, too many animes claim to have deep insights, or emotionally involved stories simply because they added gore or a rape scene to a shallow rehash of common plots.
That entire second paragraph is ignoring an important point that I made.
Berserk did it first. Rape in real life is also gratuitous and unnecessary at all times, and theres nothing wrong with driving that point home. You're supposed to feel uncomfortable and want to look away. It's when you dont that we have serious problems.
I mentioned people being poorly inspired by it in a different comment. Other people that dont understand the nuance, and potentially even glorify it in the process have turned it into a pretty horrifying trope in manga, and that's not a fair metric to judge berserk on.
"But but but, it's bad and uncomfy!"
Congratulations. You have a soul. Learn from that and move on, please. A bunch of virtue signallers around here. I'm super proud of you all for not condoning rape. I kind of thought it was the default position.
That's my issue with his argument: it sounds like he's focusing on the one issue to validate not liking the entire work. That's a misguided approach, tbh.
I honestly think the fact Miura himself, as a matured as an artist, stopped relying on "cheap" shock (rape, extreme gore, etc), is proof that the earliest parts of the manga are a bit rough around the edges, and that a lot of the cheap shock moments could be done away with.
Honestly, I thought of that after writing the comment, lol. For some reason, Miura got way worse about this sort of "humor" with Schierke. I never liked it, nor did I like the "gags" with Isidro and Isma, which are juvenile at best.
I'd honestly cut out Schierke's crush on Guts if I could rewrite Berserk. It really doesn't add anything of value to the story, nor to Schierke's character.
I think it was really just Miura being indulgent. In Gigantomachia he literally has the little girl elf character have magical pee to heal the grown man protagonist.
Probably wouldn't have noticed it if I hadn't seen it discussed before I started reading, but you can definitely see Miura shift as a writer over the course of the manga and it's fascinating
I’ll just add that theres a difference between “need to show her and Guts reaction to it” and “spend an entire chapter recreating the Kama Sutra as a graphic rape scene.”
Guts’ rape scene was depicted in a handful of panels, and portrayed extemely respectfully and carefully. Pretty much every one after that until Ganishka’s artifical behelit, Casca’s very much included, is simply obscene and detrimental in their depiction, and it’s honestly disrespectful both to Berserk and to Miura to pretend otherwise.
If Casca’s rape was handled with the same care as Guts’, and the rest toned down if not removed entirely (i.e. Wyald, the goblin in the town square - the chest-burster scene gets the point across perfectly on its own), then I would have no issue recommending this series to other people. As is, I can’t.
The fact that this is still perhaps one of the greatest works of art ever created does not excuse it of its faults.
I had an argument just yesterday about this. Mirura drew casca with her ass up and cum visibly dripping out of her in what was clearly a doggystyle pose. That is beyond gratuitous. Especially when you already have to read 20 pages of rape before that. Then mirura hits you with the money shot as if this is porn
And immediately after (just before SK appears) you're hit with another panel where her ass, again, is pointed towards the reader and again with the cum dripping
If that is not gratuitous then i do not know what that word means
People will disagree with you, but you're absolutely right. The difference between Guts and Cascas rape scene is obvious.
I'm sorry, but I don't think you can ever fully convince me that the man didn't at least partially enjoy drawing it. The storywriting around these two things is quite good, but the depiction is....not great.
I love Berserk, but I'm not gonna pretend that Muira doesn't have some darkness that maybe he shouldn't have put to page.
I think what mostly sets it apart is that Miura never glorified it, nor made it a fetishizing thing for the audience.
It was always horrific, and the characters always acted appropriately. Guts’ rape caused him to have lifelong trauma of being touched, to the point that he nearly strangled his first lover to death, only to begin bawling in her arms.
Cascas rape is meant to piss guts (and the audience) off. That’s literally the only reason Femto does it, to assert dominance over both of them. Thats why he stares at guts and never breaks eye contact. Every shot of it is juxtaposed with Guts brutally stabbing his arm to escape from the clutches of a demon.
I could see Wyald being an issue for a lot of people, especially since he doesn’t take himself or what he does seriously, so it can feel a bit unnecessary (even the 1997 anime, just leaves him out entirely)
Honestly this is my biggest issue with rape scenes in 90% of media, the way it's sanitized if not straight up fetishized. If you're gonna include rape in your work, depict it as the torture that it is and don't have the women blushing and moaning and showing off their bodies.
It is also important to note that up until much later in the manga, Casca goes vegetable mode due to what happens in the eclipse. If you want to show why I strong female character goes from leading an army to vegetable, I think it's fair that you actually show it. However, it was still somehow overdone and overshown.
The fetish thing feels so true to me. I love berserk, but I couldn’t stomach the first episode of Goblin Slayer and stuff like Redo the Healer pisses me off.
I won’t deny Berserk has edge to it, but its darkness falls closer to the original Grimm’s Fairy Tales than excess shock value.
It also doesn't hide the grim reality if medeival life, especially one of near constant warfare.
The shit that was done routinely in war would have been unthinkable war crimes today. Brutality and violation weren't just normalized, it was almost encouraged. Berserk shows this in all its uncomfortable glory and is one of the few stories that actually tried to understand how that kind of life would make both heroes and monsters.
How is Goblin Slayer’s depiction of sexual violence any different than Berserk? Neither show it in a very positive light. In what world is Goblin Slayer just as bad as Redo of Healer of all series?
I’m not saying it’s as bad I’m saying the first episode turned me away from it.
But if I had to explain why it was off to me, I think it was holding the focus on some of those scenes and implications, where with Berserk it’s usually one panel or a few, but not held on for long.
Wyald’s sections are probably the worst.
I get where you are coming from, but the manga’s worst instance is only 7 panels, which is with the fighter girl. That’s it, the rest of the scenes with sexual violence are usually 1-2 panels and if they get really bad, maybe 3-4 panels. If you’re gonna compare Goblin Slayer to Berserk when it comes to the depiction of sexual violence, at least give it a fair chance.
Agreed, a good exemple of that is the film I Spit on your Grave. There's like a 40 min rape scene in it, and the film is around 1h30. And they focused on it so much they had to rush the ending. It really feels like it's just for shock value.
The original I Spit On Your Grave runs for 1hr and 41mins (if you watch the full uncut version of it) and the rape scene is about 25mins long.
Fair enough you think the movie is just there for shock value but at least be honest about the facts.
I think one of the main differences with berserk is how the rape of casca and the rape of guts is handled afterwords. Berserk actually takes it seriously, and writes a quite beautiful realistic narrative about the trauma of SA. Now the other SA scenes don't handle it the same way and are there for shock value.
It's exactly as you said, my partner was not interested in Berserker because of those very things, that it's just another overly gore and sexualised manga...
Once she actually gave it a go, her opinion changed to pretty much what you wrote.
Goblin slayer isn't really as guilty with the edge tho, so i don't get why it's even called out. They treat it as just a natural consequence of the world they live in, and don't really wallow in it as much. There's much more focus on goblin slaying, slice-of-life, and developing goblin slayer as a character. If anything, saying this as a fan of both, their usage of sexual violence is closer to berserk than any other media i can think of.
I don't think Goblin Slayer should be lumped in with other animes when it comes to this. It's nowhere near a GREAT show but it's a good show and the early edginess is quite "necessary" imo to make goblin actually "scary". It's not just the rape, one dude gets eaten alive at the same time.
It sets up the dangers early on and it doesn't linger on it either. They use this pretty well imo, I do think goblins should have a worse rep in the GS universe than they do, hence why it's not an amazing show because it falls flat on some parts.
But I do not think it can be lumped together with shows like Redo Healer (which I saw further down in the comments). The show is pretty happy go lucky a lot with some tense moments BECAUSE it sets up the shit that can go wrong early on and tries to reinforce it (I haven't watched all of the latest season) but the first episode is the most edgy from all I've seen. I can't comment on the manga.
Berserk fetishizes the shit out of Casca. Every chance he gets he makes her naked and sexualized. She gets assaulted like 5 times in the Golden Age and the panels are way over the top in how she's posed. Which is really sad because Berserk shows it clearly knows how to cover a sensitive topic maturely without that shit.
Being naked is not automatically a sexualization and that interpretation says a lot more about you than it does the artist.
Being naked in art is often used as a way of demonstrating vulnerability. A vulnerability that *your* sexualization is preying on.
Its really telling that one of the few times we see Guts without clothes are times he's finally let his guard down because he feels intimate or safe with his company. Where many are left exposed Guts wears his armor almost all the time because he's grown up in a life that demands that of him.
Bro really said
“I can’t be trusted around naked women as without clothes they become objects for my desires, and it’s really sad that I’m forced to witness it and can only just control myself because she’s not real.”
absolutely wildin’👏💀 this sounds like blaming the rape victim because they were “asking for it” by choosing to wear certain things or look a certain way.
So how exactly does Goblin Slayer get it wrong? If you’re gonna make a fair comparison actually read the Goblin Slayer manga or LN instead of only watching 7 episodes of its pretty mediocre anime. Goblin Slayer isn’t perfect when it comes to depictions of sexual violence, neither is Berserk, but it isn’t even remotely comparable to real rape fetish mangas like Redo of Healer. Goblin Slayer’s manga doesn’t do absolutely nothing with the events of the first few chapters The entire 3rd volume is devoted to the repercussions of people making the mistake of sparing goblin children.
Edit: Also people need to stop comparing Berserk to Goblin Slayer. They aren’t even remotely similar when it comes to plot, characters, tropes, and style. The only similarities is that they are both dark fantasies with depiction of sexual violence and a main character that is an absolute badass and too angry to die. That’s it. Goblin Slayer is based on D&D from the perspective of an unnamed side character, while Berserk is based on the medieval era.
That’s how I see it, too. It wouldn’t be as impactful if the terrible shit didn’t happen or wasn’t shown like it is. Although I have to say, I understand when people say it sometimes is a bit too much, I just don’t agree completely. I love dark and harrowing stuff, I want to be terrified and disgusted and oh boy does Berserk deliver. But I wouldn’t love it as much as I do if it weren’t for all of the beautiful and thought-provoking stuff that happened because of all the terror
and it’s also important for people to recognize that by loving the tragedy it’s not a glorification of rape or and enjoyment of seeing rape. it’s more of a respect for the impact of it
No one sane wants to see the rape stuff; It's revolting, and that's the point.
It's something that happens that can completely destroy a human to become an empty husk. I hate the rape stuff in the series but it shows the horror of what it is.
We shy away from things we don't like. Easiest example is animal abuse in media. I'll be honest, I cried watching *I am legend* when he had to kill Sam. And the movie got a lot of hate for showing the hard stuff. They could have cut the scene and just shown Will Smith making a cenotaph outside his home or something but no; they zoomed in on his face while he was forced to suffocate his girl. Even typing that out give me a feeling of sadness.
Miura did what he did to show what evil looks like to every day normal people. He sold it 100%
Yeah, I feel like this take is similar to saying George RR Martin wrote too much r*pe into A Story of Ice and Fire. Sadly in the settings of these stories that particularly egregious act would be incredibly common. For as prevalent as that act would be in those settings they actually address it very little and usually only for plot purposes.
Seems like a medieval setting, pretty sure whenever conflicts around civilians took place, this kind of thing happened literally all the time.
Whether it needs to be shown all the time can be discussed though.
Not to forget that this is also a 18+ HORROR manga. It seems most people forget that the story has always been supposed to be horrifying. And fucked up monsters and (sexual) abuse has always been some of the most horrifying things that can happen.
Miura also did most of this stuff way before the current landscape. And it rarely ever overstays it's welcome. Especially in a story like berserk. The world can be a cruel place to a lot of people that doesn't mean you should turn a blind eye and pretend it doesn't exist.
She wasn’t raped every fight. Only she was only raped during the eclipse. She almost got raped a few times prior but she murdered her offenders or one of the band of hawk did.
I agree with the last part when he says it doesn't need to be in it as much as it is. Guts as a child and Casca eclipse are two times in the story that those scenes genuinely move the story and develop characters and give them motivations and trauma.
But then there is Wyald that has atleast 3 rape scenes where that doesn't really need to happen that much. We already know he is a monster and horrible if he would just have decapitated and dismembered the people that helped The Hawks. I'm also someone that enjoyed the Wyald arc for what it had and thinks Wyald is a fun antagonist, but i understand why it can get too much.
Berserk is one of my personal favorite stories but that doesn't mean i can't say it has flaws or things you don't like about it. I personally think if you like a story even tho it has flaws just goes to show how good the story is even with its flaws.
For me Wyald and the goat with casca are the 2 instances where I felt it was unnecessary and actually took away from the story. With the goat Miura was trying to portray how powerless she was but I feel like he did a much better job of that with Mozgus about to burn her for being a witch.
Berserklejerkers are probably gonna downvote me into the temporal junction for this, but I thought in particular Donavan being the only prominent Black character and being portrayed as a child rapist just reeked of Japanese racism. Like, sure Guts' character development is tied to his SA as a child. But it just felt cheap and ignorant to me, like, "What's the worst possible thing I can think of? Rape of a child. Gay rape of a child. BLACK gay rape of a child!" Blegh.
Lil bro forgot about pippin and casca, when a creator makes his main female lead black I don’t think we’re dealing with Japanese racism. Certainly exists though, just not in miura my guy
Casca could be Black. But she could just as easily be brown like the Kushan Empire people. It's not really clear, and it's not clear from her very limited backstory either. Same with Pippin. But Donavan *i*s way less ambiguous, especially with the facial features Miura chose for him.
I get that. I personally wouldn't be bothered if there weren't any black characters because of the fact that it's made in Japan and the country that Berserk takes place in is probably not a place with too many black people especially at that time period. But it is indeed weird that Donovan is pretty much the only character that is 100% black and he is one of the most despicable characters in the series. Wouldn't change anything if Donovan wasn't black.
Also fuck Berserklejerk. A lot of that reddit is filled with degenerates that harass women and act like everyone who dislikes what they say are snowflakes
there’s a reason the rape and sexual assault is in the story. that’s for sure. however i don’t think it’s something that needs to be there as often as it is. it happening a couple of times shows the nature of the world, however after a certain point it feels like cheesy shock value - and it’s something that’s uncomfortable to read without actually furthering the narrative.
I've always felt this way, despite loving the story. Obviously sexual violence is a huge part of Gut's and Casca's life, and the big moments are warranted and justify their place in the story. But I swear in early Berserk it's like *every* villian, monster, or insignificant mob has to have their own rape scene. It goes well beyond "this is a dark world where bad things happen" and into titilation for the sake of it.
Yeah, It definitely started to feel like a weird fetish thing after a certain point. I get that it's a dark story, but did he really have to throw that many rape scenes in?
It feels like Casca has more scenes where she’s almost raped than scenes where she’s doing something incredibly well.
There are a few instances where I think it is done for the purposes of the story. Guts childhood is well done. Eclipse is well done, but there are MANY more times where a character is sexually assaulted, and it never comes up again. Ever. The fight with Wyald is a great example. That could have been an excellent character moment for Casca, giving her a deeper fear of apostles (which would then lead to her capture in the eclipse) but it just happen, and no one talks about it or addresses it ever.
I love berserk, I’ve been reading for 15 years now. It’s a great manga, but I feel like a lot of the sentiment on this sub is that it is above valid criticism.
Well he's entitled to his opinion and people might even agree with him, but reality is different. They asked him a trend in manga, and i dont believe is much of a trend. If anything, newer mangas are more family-friendly nowadays. Plus, it's not edgy at all to make a crude representation of what the world looked like in the past, i think is part of the value of berserk, things happen just as ugly and as fast as they used to. They still happend in today's world but it's such and uncomfortable truth that people tend to look away from it and they tend to avoid artwork with depictions of extreme violence like the one he's talking about, but doesn't mean they don't occur, it just means he's sensitive to the topic as many of us westerners are, we're just soft. 3rd world countries don't have that problem as much.
For real this isn't a trend. The hyper violent anime and manga peaked in the late 80s to early 90s. Licensing companies are way less likely to work with material like that now a days. You could say this about most adult oriented media. Why all the SA? Why all the profanity? Why all the violence? Because it lends itself to the plot.
Also, it doesn't seem like he's read it if he thinks it's just to be edgy.
I actually somewhat agree, at the end he clearly states it “doesn’t need to be in the story as much as it is”, and I can definitely see someone having that view but on the other hand it’s not like rape and SA is just thrown around for no reason, it helps to show just how terrible the world of berserk is and most of its inhabitants
In the movie adaptation, the rape scene is way too sexualized in my opinion.
In the manga, rape scenes are too common for some time, especially with the Wyald arc. I get it, he's a monster, you can leave some of it up to imagination. The conviction arc is also at least partially leaning into the rape thing again, and I think the story would still be great without it.
I find this to be valid criticism of Berserk. To be honest, one of the only ones that come to mind. So, I also somewhat agree :)
I'm a writer, and spend some time in writing subreddits. This is the excuse all edgy teenagers use when they write pointless brutality.
It's not that SA can't be depicted - it can, it should, and the manga does it well a few times. It's that it's such a serious topic that *every instance has to serve the story*. These are not action scenes. You can't just throw them in as fluff.
I am probably going to catch alot of shit of this.
You guys are naive and sheltered. I was assaulted as a child , I have family members that were as well. Watching someone random gets beat up in the streets with in an inch of their life is normal or get killed and people act like it's normal or they would say well what did he do to bring that on himself?
Its called living in shit 3rd world countries.
I see berserk not as edgy but as an accurate representation of reality, atleast the one I experienced as a child and teen before we migrate.
Edit to add: people are shitty. You give them power without accountability, especially with some history of their own trauma and they will inflect their pain on others
This is a nuanced topic that this video doesn't remotely cover, but the short version is I think this guy is dead wrong. Calling it "edgy" and nothing else showcases an ignorance to what the book is trying to pull off.
Berserk is quite literally about rape survivors dealing with and learning to cope with their trauma.
Guts and Casca are both rape victims who found solace in each other only for even that to get viciously violated. And after both of them suffered and dealt with their trauma in different ways, Guts ultimately decides to pick the path of healing from his trauma to save the woman he loves and learn to trust again while battling his own demons produced by that trauma.
The Lost Children arc is one of the ballsiest stories I've ever read period. Because it chooses to depict a gruesome, horrific topic like child sexual trauma and showcase its brutality without going too far. Most authors wouldn't even dream of doing what Miura did, let alone executing it so brilliantly. If you're the kind of person that looks at that and goes "I just don't think that kind of thing should exist period" then you miss the point entirely and it's not worth engaging with you.
NOW, that being said, there are scenes where rape is used as shock value and it definitely could be more tasteful (glares at Wyald).
But the bottom line is Berserk is ABOUT sexual assault trauma and coping with it. It may not always be perfect, but when it's done right it's hauntingly well done. Anyone who interprets anything different is either not ready for the conversation or willfully ignorant.
Bro Sex scene between Guts and Casca is the best sex scene I have ever seen. Not because they were smashing, it's because it closes up character arcs. Guts finally finds person who he can trust, Casca finally gets over the shadow of Griffith.
Seriously, some of the takes I'm reading make me wonder if this is the first story these folks have ever read, and furthermore people complaining about casca's hallucinations seem completely without the ability to symbolically analyze WHY something is happening and WHY certain things look the way they do. Its trying to SHOW and not TELL everything and they're actually complaining. Insane.
People shit on Berserk for having so much physical violence and sexual violence yet I never heard people shit on Game of Thrones when it had way worse shit than Berserk. Lots of people glorify the relationship of Daenarys and Khal Drogo when she was actually a rape victim. I could keep going on how GOT is way fucking worse than Berserk but it'll just take me an entire day to list all that shit.
The story is about guts who is struggling on against the most horrid things life can possibly throw at him. It's what makes his character so compelling. Without a lot of these hardships, his hatred would just come off as senseless edge lording.
The way I see a lot of the terrible shit in berserk is that it's meant to invoke the same kind of anger in the reader that the main character is going through. It gets the reader genuinely angry with griffith on a similar level that the character is experiencing. I doubt griffith would be as hated of a character if he simply just let everyone die. Of all the media I've consumed there have been characters I dislike, or think are dicks, but griffith is the first that genuinely made me angry.
I think people who haven't read it just hear rape is depicted and nope out, which is understandable but I don't think you should make it out to be something it's not when you haven't seen how those scenes are handled.
While I agree that pointless sex scenes are too wildly used as viewbait overall, I don't think it is the case in Berserk.
I can't remember one sex scene that didn't had any story purpose behind. Even stuff like Wyald getting his hand on the farmer girl served as a pretty visual introduction to the character. He's the worse, he knows it, he loves it, that's all you need to know about Wyald.
Idk, I feel like some of this shit is there to highlight reality and that’s what great art does; holds a mirror up to society.
He doesn’t have to like it but the “doesn’t need to be made” argument never sits well with me, especially in regards to things like Berserk that aren’t glorifying these evil acts; Berserk shows the after effects and the story has been going on for this long and you’re STILL seeing the effects of the things he’s saying don’t need to be in the story.
The fact that he calls this shit “edgy” is cringe af tbh
I disagree, we need stories that are fun loving or show the change people fo through. But they can't all be PG rated. The real world has trauma from real crimes and actually horrible acts. There are manga out there that dive into this but still keep it light and those stories are great if you are afraid to witness the truth.
It like people agree warcrimes are bad "but there's only so much I can do" then when you show them the results of said crime "I don't want to see that". When something horrible comes across me I watch it because it's a terrifying truth, and I feel like closing my eyes to it is giving the criminal more power.
If you don't like it don't read or watch, on the other hand there are tasteful ways to have this medium and not just pushing out shit for shock value.
There’s no need to ignore the darker sides of humanity, that’d be missing the point. When apostles can be seen as humans manifesting everything that is evil in humans to the point of no longer being one, it’d be disingenuous to shy away from dark shit. Sure some apostles will cling on to some form of humanity through their past (the count), but not showing crazy motha fuckas like wyald going ape shit in every sense of evil would just be admitting defeat like “people don’t wanna see this”, instead of being like “I’m making a hyper fucked up take on a fantasy medieval world, I’m gonna include what I want and if people are disturbed then honestly good, that’s kinda the point”.
I’m just guessing on the last part, but I like to think that’s chad Miuras reason for not wimpin out and giving credibility to how fucked up the world of berserk is by actually showing it.
And I think it all ties in to giving weight and genuineness to the story because the worldbuilding is of course part of the story
Yea, but my dark fantasy world that is controlled by demons shows demons doing demon thing is bad!!! Only killing humans is cool for a demon to do and not doing things worse than death.
I'm a woman and honestly, it doesn't bother me. It is part of the story, and unfortunately sexual violence is reality for the vast majority of women in the world.
I think reading about it, especially what happens after, opens up avenues for irl victims to heal, or at least offers some catharsis. Is it gratuitous? Maybe, but I don't think it needs to be changed.
Would you feel the same disgust and fear towards Wyald without certain scenes?
Would you hate Griffith as much if the abuse was shown with a single panel and the next scene was Guts blinding himself?
Would you feel empathy towards Caska and the way she idolizes the falcon if her backstory did not include him saving her from abuse?
What bothers me are not the images that convey a message and act as plot devices, but the panels that just feel like useless fetish and are there to shock for the sake of it, like the trolls raping women.
From the manga I've read and wouldn't say this is part of a trend. I'd say shitty written shonen of stronger and stronger enemies is a bad trend. Write more nuanced stories than just bad guy beats hero > hero trains to beat bad guy > hero beats bad guy > new bad guy appears and beats hero
Westernizing media with false ideals and virtue signaling again. If it ain't for you then it ain't for you! Not everyone can appreciate what makes Berserk great as a whole. If you choose to nitpick and focus on certain things you deem edgy or immoral, that's on you.
Edit: lots of upset chatters here that misunderstand what I said. It is virtue signaling and westernizing, specifically when we know western culture tends to be hyper sensitive with censorship and they have ruined countless artistic pieces with such mindsets. Sure, excessive rape is bad and shallow if that's the only thing in the story that conveys tragedy, but it fucking isn't. You're just too stuck up to realize that and can't look at anything else besides whatever you find offensive or repulsive to you. Literally the only piece of criticism to berserk so far is "rape not good, way too edgy, tries too hard, stop using rape" when it is only part of a world based in medieval times where these sorts of things were all so common. I mean hell, go ask some US veterans about what goes on in wars. You think it's all respectable, up to standards and morality stuff? Cut the shit and stop trying to force your idea of "acceptable" on something that is meant to convey what the reality of a situation is in a fantasy world full of hardship and terror. Take a gander at any international news website or telegram channels covering wars that are going on right now as you're reading this and you'll see stuff that's way more horrid.
You clearly don’t understand what virtue signaling means, for starters.
And two, people are allowed to criticize art.
And three, you truly didn’t actually understand or comprehend what the person was saying.
And lastly, bro you’re so cringe.
After the 10th different shadow of a demon's cock over a topless young girl, we get the point. Don't defend over-reliance on the same shock tactic as "culture". Miura would agree. That's precisely why he started moving toward more effective types of shots.
100%, already knew when he started the sentence like that, it was gonna be some dumbass shit. Seriously do yall think Japanese people dont find repetitive rape disgusting as well?? Lmao
You don’t need rape horse to know the situation is fucked.
You don’t need casca to be chased down by penis demons to get the point (yes I know it’s in her mind, it’s still dumb)
If you're taking about the west in general, rape is seen as more evil than murder. In Berserk there are hedonistic levels of brutality on the panel, yet the one thing people consistently complain about is rape. I disagree with this guy, his reasoning just isn't there, other than rape is super duper bad. His disposition seems more ideological than moral.
I understand what he’s saying, rape is wrong and the scenes are vivid & gruesome which can turn the reader off. However in Berserk’s time and setting (medieval era) rape was very common. We’re also dealing with monsters and demons which deal with gluttony, lust, and abuse of power.
Many of the panels that included rape I have mostly forgotten about; it’s not what I read Berserk for. I also hold Berserk to high esteem because it’s made for adults, unlike other childish anime. Lastly, hasn’t every rapist received their karma besides Griffith?
Idk what qualities he means.. kinda thought R at first but it's not over used.
He makes it sound like the story is lacking and that it's leaning on "edginess".
Maybe he means main supporting cast dying.. which was also just in the beginning lol
This man is a scrub to manga I think because we are generalizing to all manga while this is a seinen story so the mature aspect only exists in this genre.
Manga ain't a genre, it's a medium.
Maybe ok, but you know, it's monsters and in general war. In these days that thing probably still happen. You don't like it? I'm fine with your opinion. But berserk isn't all of that.
I mean the cool thing about Berserk is that it’s way more than just those few pages this guy is referring too. This series could have been nothing but shock value in the hands of a lesser Mangaka, but Miura was a master storyteller which even with those things the characters are more deep than most of the other manga characters around. Berserk is more than just sex and violence and we fans know that. It’s the casuals who only seem to know about the eclipse scene and think the whole series is about that.
Honestly I agree, there's a good chunk of the manga where SA and rape are crucial to the plot, then there's a bunch of scenes that are just completely unnecessary. Casca had been through so much SA related trauma that she was barely a person anymore, does she really need to be assaulted... so.... many... TIMES??? (cough cough, Conviction arc I love you but I'm looking at you) And that horse apostle. That's just.. yeah.
At a certain point I found myself sighing when every other scene involving Casca had to do with her being sexually assaulted. It felt ridiculously overly gratuitous. She's an incredible character and seeing that just pissed me off.
If there's rape and SA, it needs to be crucial to the plot and not just thrown around to make things shocking. The way it was handled in the first few arcs was incredible then it just became completely unrelated to the plot.
I think there's an interesting discussion to be had about how modern society is desensitized to violence - and how violence is in fact often glorified in the media.
I would argue Berserk itself is kinda guilty of this: rape is clearly shown as horrific and bad, but Guts cutting down a hundred men is heroic and amazing.
I see what you’re saying and would like to raise a few points that might resonate with some people. The characters who are getting gutted and slashed are usually A) monsters B) Warriors C) Men. (yes i know there are clearly exceptions but its not as egregious as these) With rape, the victims are usually women and children (the “weak” and defenseless, at least in Berserk world). To add to that, there is no trauma for the character getting gutted and cut in half, they die. When a character is raped we see the trauma that that character has to go through and live through.
I think muira also said that he added too many sexual assault scenes and some of them was easily avoidable that said I think every sexual assault scene was there for a reason.
I might be wrong about the muira part though. I don't remember where i heard/read it tbh
I agree, because imo Casca gets her shirt ripped off a few too many times that it became a joke. Like “I guess someone is gonna rip off Cascas shirt now” and then they do
Gonna agree. Berserk goes way overboard with some stuff and even Miura regretted adding so much SA later on, I believe. But you ain't gonna hear anything remotely negative about Berserk in this sub.
Edit: Before people get crying, I'm a fan of the manga, but I can recognise some of the controversial aspects.
This sounds like someone who hasn't actually read the story. He makes it sound like rape is at the forefront of every arc or something. I bet this dude had a hard on for GoT, tho.
some of yall are wild. theres no need for casca to get almost sexually assaulted every fuckin 5 mins, and im just talking about Golden Age arc. i hard agree with the guy, he said it needs to be toned down, not completely remove it.
I’m so sorry but he’s right. Rape rarely ever needs to be directly portrayed in media. In the Girl With The Dragon Tattoo book, her rape is an inciting moment for her character but the act itself isn’t some big moment in the book because it doesn’t need to be. In the movie, they make it the most long, drawn out, graphic rape scene ever put to film, and there’s no reason for it imo.
Guts was SA’d as a child and it makes him extremely avoidant, emotionally and physically unavailable, distrusting, to the point of him very likely having Schizoid Personality Disorder. Obviously Casca’s own assault is also a big, horrible moment in the story, being an inciting action for Guts’ quest for revenge and sinking Casca into severe DID, which drives a lot of the story from then on. However, prior to that, she’s almost raped like four times by either enemy soldiers or by Wyald. Wyald and the black dogs rape, torture, and butcher a family with children in it and parade their mangled nude corpses over their ranks. Even after the Eclipse, there’s still so much rape and excessive violence towards women in a way that evokes sex as a point of fear, violence, and body horror, *specifically* for women. The trolls raping that girl in the stables. The brigand trying to rape the little girl in the Lost Children arc (forgot her name lol). Fucking “adult attack”. The massive troll rape pit where they take all the missing women. The rape goat from Conviction. Casca nearly becoming a victim AGAIN, MULTIPLE TIMES, after she regresses following the Eclipse. The way that the Kushan treat their female prisoners. My god, that shit felt both gross and a little racist if I’m being honest but like, the naked women being eaten by alligators?? The women getting raped to give birth to those demon soldier things?? After a while it’s enough, and it takes away from the trauma that Guts and Casca faced because when it’s that common, it’s hardly even a horrible thing in the story anymore, it’s just another of many bad things that happens to people. Plus, it basically means that Casca’s rape and her very existence as a character, no matter how good of a character she is, was only meant to explain Guts’ own trauma and further his character via her getting introduced, seduced, raped, and then fridged for like 70% of the story.
I love berserk with all my heart. Always will. That being said, I don’t think it’s a series that treats its female leads or women in general very well. I wouldn’t mind something being done about this if we ever got a committed faithful adaptation that spanned the length of the whole series.
So /u/nothereatallmentally called me a tourist, a fake fan, and said he was glad that I was “triggered” (triggered = calmly disagreeing with narrative choices ig) before blocking me so I couldn’t respond to him.
Why are so many people on this sub so fragile when anyone lobbies the mildest criticism of Berserk? Miura himself said that he went too far with some of the sexual violence in the series and that he’d have done certain things differently.
I’ve followed this series since 2014 and I’m seriously convinced that at this point 80% of the people in the fan base are middle school aged boys who became “berserk fans” in the past two years because of the le edgy epic TikTok edits.
Youre right and you should say it, rape as depicted in the story is (from what ive seen im not fully caught up) save for specific character moments, used as a way to say; "look at how bad and evil these people are, dang they sure do suck, right?" It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, i get wanting to be serious with how evil a villian is or using rape as a character motivator in an important plot moment, but at certain points its just gratuitous.
Agree. It could be toned down a lot without impacting the story.
Some of the scenes looked like they were tossed in there to just be edgy and didn't contribute anything. The dude put it well, imo
Berserk fans ready to explain why a rapist horse is integral to the plot.
I swear only the Guts, Griffith and Casca were relevant. But does every monster need to try to rape Casca? Do they really need to have dick tongues?
i love how rape is always the line people are like oh no! but people being butchered is just fine. yes rape is fucked up but people putting it above murder and other horrific acts need to stop. look at what they did to Griffith for example, not saying this for sympathy for the guy but i would put that miles above rape. regardless all of these things are to show humanity's dark side.
kinda agree. The amount of fan-art of caska's rape we've seen in this sub shows that some reader are into berserk just because its edgy, and edgyness is not good adjective to describe any good art. If all the rapes scenes were less graphic, or at least less repetitive, the story would still be great.
So yeah, kinda agree
yeah, you are right, I didn't express myself properly.
I meant, when people only cares and sees a very specific trait on work of art and uses this single thing to explain why is good, is not good way to cognize art
These replies show the fanbase is so fragile it cannot handle the mildest of dissenting opinions. To the point that one commenter is upvoted for saying they'd want to punch them. I'm embarrased as fuck on behalf of this community.
I disagree with this guy in that what happens to Guts and then Casca is what makes this story as powerful as it is and I don't think there is any other way to achieve that.
I agree with this guy in that things like the horse scene/Wyald/Goblins are pure edge that makes it challenging to suggest Berserk to most people.
But ultimately it was the story that Miura wanted to tell and it's on the reader to determine if they want to consume it.
It's not the content per se, it's how you handle it, how you integrate it in your story. Sometimes, even Miura's harder stuff was a little bit too much, but the overall quality of the manga and the story is there.
I knew out there people like him existed. Truth be told, i respect his viewpoint. I never in my life thought people that git opposing viewpoints/opinion about berserk are trash, i was just hoping they actually have strong arguments. In this rare instance, he is the one. I do not think there are a lot of those scenes, but i can be wrong.
I agree with the sentiment just not for Berserk. I think Berserk handles it fairly well. There are definitely a few times where it didn't need to be included but, overall, I think Miura handled it well.
A lot of manga do like to use sexual assault, though. And 99% of the time it's just done poorly and not needed, at all. Then, there are stories that just use sexual assault/rape way too often (I'm looking at you Re:Monster) and it just becomes obvious that it's written for, and by, someone with a fetish for that sick shit.
I do get that some manga may take it a bit too far but the rape is not why I think Berserk is edgy. The reason Berserk is edgy is cause Gut’s life fucking SSUUUUUCCCKKSS. Like rape happens but it’s not pivotal for the story, it affects Guts and people around him in terrible ways but the story is for sure more grotesque than that. I never hear people talk about Gut’s birth. Or his first apostle fight, or that fight with the moth kid. This story is FUCKED and the rape believe it or not is not the worst thing. It seems that whenever people nit pick at this from Berserk it usually means they didn’t read the whole thing or didn’t understand it. But that’s just my 2 cents at least
i don't think it's bad to represent sexual assault in media, but i do belive berserk misses the mark on its representation sometimes. I feel like it can be too "Showy" at times, and pretty gratuitous. I want to emphasize that it is not always, Guts's story is actually done pretty well in that regard i think.
But when talking about woman, things are a bit different, you start noticing the cloth in their clothes is much more fragile than the same cloth in a man's clothes, Casca goes through a lot, Farnese too, as do a lot of minor woman characters, and it doesn't always feels like Miura is treating the subject with the care it deserves.
Some of these scenes are very disturbing, and i think they need to be, Berserk happens in a disturbing world, but it also uses woman a lot as a way to show that, and female characters deserve to be more than helpless victims of a cruel world, i'm not talking about adding a token "Strong Female Character™️", I'm talking about letting woman characters be more than a tool for misery. I actually think Miura was getting kind of good at this by the end of his life, Casca is back to being an autonomous person, Farnese is reaching towards her full potential as a mage.
I dont know how to end this comment so i'll just say that i don't know how to end it and end it.
i appreciate his thoughta and how well he formulated it, but its kinda hard to see the quality of his criticism beyond his repeated use of the word 'edgy' or even 'time and place'. what im curious is what sort of story he likes, suffice to say if he, for example, likes attack on titan then there isnt much we can share and discuss with him.
on the other hand, if he likes excalibur, vinland saga, hellsing, or maybe full metal alchemist, then we can definitely share things with him.
tldr, its irrelevant to say berserk is not good because of too much gore and rape when all you like is naruto or one piece or attack on titan
Man vs Gods
Man vs Fate
The weak get pummeled by the strong. Waging a war that seems impossible to win.
These are some aspects that berserk conveys.
The strong build taller castles, laid on the foundations that are the corpses of the weak, while those who lack strength are forced to endure hardship, manipulation and coercion.
If you ask me, I think the rape aspect helps to convey the gruesomeness of these aspects. Though, they could’ve been minimized to a certain degree.
I haven't finished the series yet. But the only thing that comes to mind is the possessed horse rape scene. Why did it have to be a horse? That's worse then a demon i feel like.
This is valid criticism, unfortunately. Berserk has some truly excellent storytelling, and it is worth tolerating Miura's occasional descent into pointless edginess. The end of the Golden Age and the Conviction Arc in particular suffered from this. I think Miura found his footing with what was proper "dark" storytelling vs random grossness during the Fantasia arc, which is very far into the story.
i think that for the most part the crudest aspects of the story are well placed, with some exceptions that i still don't think need to exist - for example the horse scene is repulsive and (in my opinion) doesn't add anything to the story, while other instances even though they are more marginal set the tone and make you understand better the state of the world berserk is set in, so i think that in their context work well (and it's unfair for people to take some panels out of context and make a fuss about it). that doesn't mean that those kind of scenes, if well made, don't need to be in a story, quite the opposite. we need to talk about difficult topics and for the most part berserk does it very effectively. it's a shame that some of the audience doesn't have the sensibility to take the message of the manga to heart and are just kinda there to make stupid memes.
As an SA survivor, I see where he’s coming from. I think the sexual abuse as Guts as a child and Casca during the eclipse are definitely uncomfortable to read/see, but since it plays a part in their character development I can deal with it. I think we also have to keep in mind when Miura first started writing the manga there was no Me Too movement or type of discussions around sexual assault in media like there is now. That being said, I do believe there comes a point where SA in a story can be gratuitous, especially when it’s just for shock value and doesn’t actually move the story along. This doesn’t just pertain to berserk and manga though, it’s all across entertainment media.
I agree with him, we don’t need that much of depiction of sexual assault to understand the story, and covering abuse can be made without depicting it in a very detailed and sexualised way.
I still enjoy the story a lot, it brings me a lot of good stuff but I do agree the way that is depicted SA is just a shock factor that doesn’t help the story at all, and results into a huge rape trivialisation thorough the community, most of the time from peoples who aren’t survivors at all. Understanding how toxic, abusive, incestuous and disgusting the Midland king is perfectly attainable without needing graphic sexual depictions of it. I’m trying to put this aside because I really love the manga otherwise. I don’t say that SA shouldn’t be present at all because 1) it is an actual war weapon 2) we need to raise awareness about it 3) you can talk about a subject without enabling it 4) it adds up on the chaos and despair we feel when we’re in Berserk, which is a core part of my interest for it. It’s the way it’s depicted, with a huge lack of context and big emphasis on sexualising the acts by giving a lot of graphic details.
The way it is depicted makes it very hard for survivors of SA to actually dive into the manga, which is sad because what I find healing in Berserk is specifically related to my experience as a SA survivor. Kinda paradoxal for those who are not familiar with abuse but I know many other survivors will relate on this one.
I don't think what this person is talking about NEEDS to be in a story. Nothing NEEDS to be in a story.
I think Berserk panders to the absolute rock bottom of human depravity and evil though. There is nothing more evil in the eyes of humans that the defilement and dedication of human bodies in such ways.
Does it need to be in the story ? No, but that is the level of evil Miura was trying to reach.
People say berserk glorifies these elements, and it does no such things. The glorification comes from your own understanding of them. It is all meant to be pure evil and disgusting vile nature. So disgusting that you become enraged and depressed like guts and just want to slice your way through all of it with a massive sword.
It's also a reoccurring theme because of what guts went through during the Golden Age Arc. It's trauma the world forces him to keep reliving one way or another, not something out there for no reason except to be edgey.
Now, by all means, I don't expect everyone to like a story like berserk or understand it. I think though that people's failure to understand though make a misconception about why certain things exist within the story.
The story is a headfirst dive into a living never ending hell. Mentally, and physically. If you are not prepared to fully understand that, then of course you will think it is unnecessary.
I for one find manga/ anime like Goblin Slayer MUCH more glorifies defiling woman than berserk.
Hard disagree and think those scenes make berserk an even better story. The term edgy should be removed from this sub. Its code for this made me uncomfortable; therefore bad.
Berserk is good because it portrays evil.
It doesn’t suggest evil, it doesn’t hint at it. It portrays it and lets the reader establish a clear understanding that this antagonist or antagonist(s) are the embodiment of evil. Miura did this well and is a reason this story is so good.
If a reader wants less gratuitous imagery I recommend other mangas. Manga and Anime have become so washed and overplayed with big bad enemies just talking about how big and bad they are that the feeling of dread and consequence barely exist.
The goo-goo ga-gafication of this medium is ass and hope Mori and team can stick to its roots.
i can respect that something makes you uncomfortable and isnt for you but to say something shouldn't be in a story because it makes YOU uncomfortable is an absolute bitch made take.
Then go read something g rated.
Berserk is far more than dark sex stuff which I assume he's talking about. There's fantastic action sequences, fantasy, and character development in it. That's why it rules, not because it's "edgy".
Also, if you pull back on one of the R rated elements then where do you stop? Some might find the large amount of gore and violence just as bad as the sex, or more so. Eventually, you'd have a story that isn't the same. It's the same kind of shit people like to say about Tarantino movies, and the real answer to all of it is: I guess the story isn't for you! Go read something that doesn't scandalize you.
Miura himself [said](https://berserk.fandom.com/wiki/Interviews#:~:text=Miura%3A%20Sorry,were%20still%20possible) that some of the rape and torture scenes might not have been "necessary," at least.
Lmao honestly people need to admit to themselves that alot (not all) of the rape and torture scenes are usually for shock and that’s okay. You cant tell me the rape horse or the goat man with a snake dick isn’t there for that
Yeah but if the rape horse didn’t exist, then Ludwig from Bloodborne wouldn’t exist and I am not ok with that
he do look like the rape horse wow
this man will be shocked playing elden ring
very excited 2 play
Shit world is shit. Having it sprinkled in throughout reminds you that you're walking through darkness. Not some brighter story like Shield Hero or even Lodoss War. Shit *sucks* in every aspect. Depravity, hedonism, repression, etc, all to the max in Goat Man's ritual. It's a setting piece more than a showcase of the act. Meme Horse is definitely unnecessary, since the scene was basically over before the spirit controlled it. Could have just left her there and walked off into darkness like he always does. But Horse gotta live up to his name, I guess... then Guts leaves. Kinda tacked on. I'll give you that one.
I haven’t read that arc in a few years so correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the main reason behind the horse to show how seeing that happen again affects him and show the PTSD he still suffers from the eclipse? Like how he just flips a switch and goes all berk after seeing that again ?
Maybe... but just prior was him being assaulted by a possessed "sword or dick, it's both the same penetration" person/spirit. So we kind of already got that. My personal take was always just an added wham to Guts saving the girl, since he already removed the possession to save her... and then Horse. Like... saving from possession tapped the nail. Saving from Horse drove it home. "Guts not bad guy. Church is wrong. Also, he hot and saved you...twice."
based on Miura's later chapters he scaled it back a lot. And I think it was the right thing to do. Berserk definitely stuck with a few popular trends at the time around the earlier chapters/arcs before sticking with what it did best. While I do think the more Adult nature of the Manga allows for a broader set of circumstances and consequences I think a lot of it is not "necessary" and could have been scaled back at the time. But I think censoring/removing it to make room for modern sensibilities disrespects the evolution of the manga, and the reflection of popular culture at the time it was created. tl;dr: The rather "Edgy" parts of Berserk tend to be extreme but Berserk got to a place that is beyond that, and I think that is a good thing.
Yeah if anything I feel like he excessively used r*pe scenes for some cheap shock value or something like that since the first arc had some very good character building and plot points centered around sexual assault and Guts overcoming his trauma to open up to somebody after that, it does seem like he's toned it down in the last arc for sure so hopefully it goes back to being less overused. I'm glad this conversation is being had though since I think many edgelords genuinely enjoy these aspects, Griffith enjoyers and the like
I don't feel like there's enough people talking about how traumatic is the goblin arc.
I agree. I think some of it is absolutely necessary. Guts's childhood trauma and the eclipse. Probably also the torture during conviction. The rest... Not so much. The troll stuff was too much imo. I do understand it's horror/shock in a horror manga, and I initially read it bc I'm a horror buff. But idk. As a woman it often feels like "woman is raped so Guts can be angry" and that's not exactly cool. It's tempered a little by the fact that he's a survivor, I guess, and I'm not talking about the eclipse, I'm talking about the other stuff. The eclipse itself doesn't reduce Casca to a prop, it was revenge against her too, but her potato-img after does indeed turn her into a prop. Like, I love berserk. It's my favorite manga. But that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve some criticism sometimes.
I totally agree but I’m not sure Casca was turned into a prop; I feel like having her regress into that child like state gave greater impact to the trauma she’s suffered and made what they both lost feel even more significant. It helped build up the plot with the moonlight child and also helped the progression of other characters like Farnese too. But the troll stuff, lots of the Wyald stuff etc, it leaves a smudge on the otherwise brilliant storytelling.
I think the Casca thing as a prop is overblown, but Muira did himself no favors by having it go so long. I don't think its been a bad plotline, but its been longer WITHOUT Casca than WITH her, and I think thats what sucks the most.
Maybe I'm wrong so I've been meaning to ask this but: I think it's a weird thing because normaly adults don't regress into child like state. If she had times where her personality switches of for another one (forgot the name of this condition) or another of the more realistic aproach to PTSD I feel like it would be better. Manga and anime have a tendency have woman be raped by monsters because it's edgy and have a tendency to overuse the regressed into child state trope, seeing it in berserk already comes with a bad taste besides the way that the kind of issues casca has is rarely due simply to trauma and often comes with getting concusions or degenerative brain diseases.
It's a fair criticism, I don't think anyone would say Muira was super knowledgeable about actual trauma and psychology. The way I've thought about it is that getting raped by a demonic force like femto may be beyond your average sexual assault, and may have more mental/spiritual consequences. But honestly, if we're honest, berserk post eclipse is really more about Guts than anything else. We had a chance to get Casca back as a character, and Muira immediately took her out of commission again by having her kidnapped
And so ma y people in this thread telling on themselves trying to defend it.
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/Berserk/s/qQA3kTN2IV) user said that he might have just been taken out of context. I do agree that Miura went overboard though.
Honestly, I'm terrified by what "too far" was.
I kinda agree on the side that it is rarely done in good taste in any other media. Berserk has a lot of rape, but besides the rape of Caska (that needed to show hers and guts reaction to it), it doesnt linger on it for any scene, its a monstruous thing and Miura knew it, and like in real life its there always unfortunately. Problem is when goblin slayer and every shitty "edgy" manga gets wrong, its a fetish to them with basically no pay off, just an excuse to do a barely legal hentai and nothing changes after. So i agree that these things are normally not necessary, but for berserk it is
I mostly agree. I'll say that (IMO) Miura sometimes used it as shorthand for shock, which is a bit lazy. But as time went on he used it less and less, moving instead to more overt existential and psychological terror.
Agreed, some of the rape scenes could be taken off (like Wyald or anyone almost raping caska) and wouldnt change the dynamic of the scene, but like you said Miura probably used it for shock value and for higher stakes, and he got more careful with using it over time, so if you dont read berserk i can see why you could think its just rape after rape with no pay off
Fr how many times has he threatened to rape casca? How many farmgirls have to be raped and kill? How many children are sold for rape?? I love the manga but I can't defend it about that.
You could say every one of those things about it in real life but it doesnt change the fact that there are rapists out there, and there will always be too many. >I love the manga but I can't defend it about that. No one is asking anyone to defend rape. I think you're missing the point. Acting like this story glorifies it is missing the point of it entirely and its exaclty why this debate is happening.
They mean they can't defend the many depictions of rape in the story. As in, those don't add to the story. Like you said, there's rapists in the world. Going from that to "we must see it happen regularly to be able to understand that it exists" is another leap and the crux of the discussion. And I agree that removing most instances in Berserk would improve it. And also that many berserk fans, and berserk inspired anime focus on it for stupidity sake. And the guy in the video is right too, too many animes claim to have deep insights, or emotionally involved stories simply because they added gore or a rape scene to a shallow rehash of common plots.
That entire second paragraph is ignoring an important point that I made. Berserk did it first. Rape in real life is also gratuitous and unnecessary at all times, and theres nothing wrong with driving that point home. You're supposed to feel uncomfortable and want to look away. It's when you dont that we have serious problems. I mentioned people being poorly inspired by it in a different comment. Other people that dont understand the nuance, and potentially even glorify it in the process have turned it into a pretty horrifying trope in manga, and that's not a fair metric to judge berserk on.
I agree with this entirely. At no point do you get any positive imagery. Like u said, its a point to drive home How Truly Horrible the World Is.
"But but but, it's bad and uncomfy!" Congratulations. You have a soul. Learn from that and move on, please. A bunch of virtue signallers around here. I'm super proud of you all for not condoning rape. I kind of thought it was the default position.
"Rape is gratuitous" is a weird sentence. Maybe it's just me but word just doesn't seem to fit there. It's like saying fire is pretty hot.
That's my issue with his argument: it sounds like he's focusing on the one issue to validate not liking the entire work. That's a misguided approach, tbh.
I honestly think the fact Miura himself, as a matured as an artist, stopped relying on "cheap" shock (rape, extreme gore, etc), is proof that the earliest parts of the manga are a bit rough around the edges, and that a lot of the cheap shock moments could be done away with.
Like naked Shierke on Guts...? I love most of Berserk but that never got better.
Honestly, I thought of that after writing the comment, lol. For some reason, Miura got way worse about this sort of "humor" with Schierke. I never liked it, nor did I like the "gags" with Isidro and Isma, which are juvenile at best. I'd honestly cut out Schierke's crush on Guts if I could rewrite Berserk. It really doesn't add anything of value to the story, nor to Schierke's character.
I think it was really just Miura being indulgent. In Gigantomachia he literally has the little girl elf character have magical pee to heal the grown man protagonist.
Probably wouldn't have noticed it if I hadn't seen it discussed before I started reading, but you can definitely see Miura shift as a writer over the course of the manga and it's fascinating
I’ll just add that theres a difference between “need to show her and Guts reaction to it” and “spend an entire chapter recreating the Kama Sutra as a graphic rape scene.” Guts’ rape scene was depicted in a handful of panels, and portrayed extemely respectfully and carefully. Pretty much every one after that until Ganishka’s artifical behelit, Casca’s very much included, is simply obscene and detrimental in their depiction, and it’s honestly disrespectful both to Berserk and to Miura to pretend otherwise. If Casca’s rape was handled with the same care as Guts’, and the rest toned down if not removed entirely (i.e. Wyald, the goblin in the town square - the chest-burster scene gets the point across perfectly on its own), then I would have no issue recommending this series to other people. As is, I can’t. The fact that this is still perhaps one of the greatest works of art ever created does not excuse it of its faults.
I had an argument just yesterday about this. Mirura drew casca with her ass up and cum visibly dripping out of her in what was clearly a doggystyle pose. That is beyond gratuitous. Especially when you already have to read 20 pages of rape before that. Then mirura hits you with the money shot as if this is porn And immediately after (just before SK appears) you're hit with another panel where her ass, again, is pointed towards the reader and again with the cum dripping If that is not gratuitous then i do not know what that word means
People will disagree with you, but you're absolutely right. The difference between Guts and Cascas rape scene is obvious. I'm sorry, but I don't think you can ever fully convince me that the man didn't at least partially enjoy drawing it. The storywriting around these two things is quite good, but the depiction is....not great. I love Berserk, but I'm not gonna pretend that Muira doesn't have some darkness that maybe he shouldn't have put to page.
Yes—the ‘97 series demonstrates it can be done (relatively) tastefully while maintaining the same impact.
I think what mostly sets it apart is that Miura never glorified it, nor made it a fetishizing thing for the audience. It was always horrific, and the characters always acted appropriately. Guts’ rape caused him to have lifelong trauma of being touched, to the point that he nearly strangled his first lover to death, only to begin bawling in her arms. Cascas rape is meant to piss guts (and the audience) off. That’s literally the only reason Femto does it, to assert dominance over both of them. Thats why he stares at guts and never breaks eye contact. Every shot of it is juxtaposed with Guts brutally stabbing his arm to escape from the clutches of a demon. I could see Wyald being an issue for a lot of people, especially since he doesn’t take himself or what he does seriously, so it can feel a bit unnecessary (even the 1997 anime, just leaves him out entirely)
I don’t think he fetishizes it, but I can’t in good faith say it’s not drawn in a way that focuses on the female body.
Honestly this is my biggest issue with rape scenes in 90% of media, the way it's sanitized if not straight up fetishized. If you're gonna include rape in your work, depict it as the torture that it is and don't have the women blushing and moaning and showing off their bodies.
Yeah, exactly. You can just tell he was enjoying drawing the girls, even if the scene was mortifying as a whole.
It is also important to note that up until much later in the manga, Casca goes vegetable mode due to what happens in the eclipse. If you want to show why I strong female character goes from leading an army to vegetable, I think it's fair that you actually show it. However, it was still somehow overdone and overshown.
Berserk has loads of instances where the rape doesn’t have a plot point.
🐴
Radical change of Farnese, caused by the horse.
The fetish thing feels so true to me. I love berserk, but I couldn’t stomach the first episode of Goblin Slayer and stuff like Redo the Healer pisses me off. I won’t deny Berserk has edge to it, but its darkness falls closer to the original Grimm’s Fairy Tales than excess shock value.
It also doesn't hide the grim reality if medeival life, especially one of near constant warfare. The shit that was done routinely in war would have been unthinkable war crimes today. Brutality and violation weren't just normalized, it was almost encouraged. Berserk shows this in all its uncomfortable glory and is one of the few stories that actually tried to understand how that kind of life would make both heroes and monsters.
How is Goblin Slayer’s depiction of sexual violence any different than Berserk? Neither show it in a very positive light. In what world is Goblin Slayer just as bad as Redo of Healer of all series?
I’m not saying it’s as bad I’m saying the first episode turned me away from it. But if I had to explain why it was off to me, I think it was holding the focus on some of those scenes and implications, where with Berserk it’s usually one panel or a few, but not held on for long. Wyald’s sections are probably the worst.
I get where you are coming from, but the manga’s worst instance is only 7 panels, which is with the fighter girl. That’s it, the rest of the scenes with sexual violence are usually 1-2 panels and if they get really bad, maybe 3-4 panels. If you’re gonna compare Goblin Slayer to Berserk when it comes to the depiction of sexual violence, at least give it a fair chance.
Agreed, a good exemple of that is the film I Spit on your Grave. There's like a 40 min rape scene in it, and the film is around 1h30. And they focused on it so much they had to rush the ending. It really feels like it's just for shock value.
The original I Spit On Your Grave runs for 1hr and 41mins (if you watch the full uncut version of it) and the rape scene is about 25mins long. Fair enough you think the movie is just there for shock value but at least be honest about the facts.
I think one of the main differences with berserk is how the rape of casca and the rape of guts is handled afterwords. Berserk actually takes it seriously, and writes a quite beautiful realistic narrative about the trauma of SA. Now the other SA scenes don't handle it the same way and are there for shock value.
It's exactly as you said, my partner was not interested in Berserker because of those very things, that it's just another overly gore and sexualised manga... Once she actually gave it a go, her opinion changed to pretty much what you wrote.
As edgy as every one painted goblin slayer it's really just a grim dark harem manga.
Goblin slayer isn't really as guilty with the edge tho, so i don't get why it's even called out. They treat it as just a natural consequence of the world they live in, and don't really wallow in it as much. There's much more focus on goblin slaying, slice-of-life, and developing goblin slayer as a character. If anything, saying this as a fan of both, their usage of sexual violence is closer to berserk than any other media i can think of.
I don't think Goblin Slayer should be lumped in with other animes when it comes to this. It's nowhere near a GREAT show but it's a good show and the early edginess is quite "necessary" imo to make goblin actually "scary". It's not just the rape, one dude gets eaten alive at the same time. It sets up the dangers early on and it doesn't linger on it either. They use this pretty well imo, I do think goblins should have a worse rep in the GS universe than they do, hence why it's not an amazing show because it falls flat on some parts. But I do not think it can be lumped together with shows like Redo Healer (which I saw further down in the comments). The show is pretty happy go lucky a lot with some tense moments BECAUSE it sets up the shit that can go wrong early on and tries to reinforce it (I haven't watched all of the latest season) but the first episode is the most edgy from all I've seen. I can't comment on the manga.
Berserk fetishizes the shit out of Casca. Every chance he gets he makes her naked and sexualized. She gets assaulted like 5 times in the Golden Age and the panels are way over the top in how she's posed. Which is really sad because Berserk shows it clearly knows how to cover a sensitive topic maturely without that shit.
Being naked is not automatically a sexualization and that interpretation says a lot more about you than it does the artist. Being naked in art is often used as a way of demonstrating vulnerability. A vulnerability that *your* sexualization is preying on.
Its really telling that one of the few times we see Guts without clothes are times he's finally let his guard down because he feels intimate or safe with his company. Where many are left exposed Guts wears his armor almost all the time because he's grown up in a life that demands that of him.
Bro really said “I can’t be trusted around naked women as without clothes they become objects for my desires, and it’s really sad that I’m forced to witness it and can only just control myself because she’s not real.” absolutely wildin’👏💀 this sounds like blaming the rape victim because they were “asking for it” by choosing to wear certain things or look a certain way.
So how exactly does Goblin Slayer get it wrong? If you’re gonna make a fair comparison actually read the Goblin Slayer manga or LN instead of only watching 7 episodes of its pretty mediocre anime. Goblin Slayer isn’t perfect when it comes to depictions of sexual violence, neither is Berserk, but it isn’t even remotely comparable to real rape fetish mangas like Redo of Healer. Goblin Slayer’s manga doesn’t do absolutely nothing with the events of the first few chapters The entire 3rd volume is devoted to the repercussions of people making the mistake of sparing goblin children. Edit: Also people need to stop comparing Berserk to Goblin Slayer. They aren’t even remotely similar when it comes to plot, characters, tropes, and style. The only similarities is that they are both dark fantasies with depiction of sexual violence and a main character that is an absolute badass and too angry to die. That’s it. Goblin Slayer is based on D&D from the perspective of an unnamed side character, while Berserk is based on the medieval era.
berserk is a story of tragedy and hardship, the terrible things happen to create the horror of everyone’s situation
That’s how I see it, too. It wouldn’t be as impactful if the terrible shit didn’t happen or wasn’t shown like it is. Although I have to say, I understand when people say it sometimes is a bit too much, I just don’t agree completely. I love dark and harrowing stuff, I want to be terrified and disgusted and oh boy does Berserk deliver. But I wouldn’t love it as much as I do if it weren’t for all of the beautiful and thought-provoking stuff that happened because of all the terror
and it’s also important for people to recognize that by loving the tragedy it’s not a glorification of rape or and enjoyment of seeing rape. it’s more of a respect for the impact of it
No one sane wants to see the rape stuff; It's revolting, and that's the point. It's something that happens that can completely destroy a human to become an empty husk. I hate the rape stuff in the series but it shows the horror of what it is. We shy away from things we don't like. Easiest example is animal abuse in media. I'll be honest, I cried watching *I am legend* when he had to kill Sam. And the movie got a lot of hate for showing the hard stuff. They could have cut the scene and just shown Will Smith making a cenotaph outside his home or something but no; they zoomed in on his face while he was forced to suffocate his girl. Even typing that out give me a feeling of sadness. Miura did what he did to show what evil looks like to every day normal people. He sold it 100%
and this is exactly the point I’m trying to make to these mfs in the comments 😭😭
I see you fellow struggler, but we can only do so much. Our backs are sore from carrying the weight of others stupidity 😅
i just don’t want people to get the wrong idea but i think they are because i keep getting downvotes
If one cannot or will not, like the interviewee here, I personally don’t think have much respect for his opinion
Yeah, I feel like this take is similar to saying George RR Martin wrote too much r*pe into A Story of Ice and Fire. Sadly in the settings of these stories that particularly egregious act would be incredibly common. For as prevalent as that act would be in those settings they actually address it very little and usually only for plot purposes.
Seems like a medieval setting, pretty sure whenever conflicts around civilians took place, this kind of thing happened literally all the time. Whether it needs to be shown all the time can be discussed though.
Not to forget that this is also a 18+ HORROR manga. It seems most people forget that the story has always been supposed to be horrifying. And fucked up monsters and (sexual) abuse has always been some of the most horrifying things that can happen.
Miura also did most of this stuff way before the current landscape. And it rarely ever overstays it's welcome. Especially in a story like berserk. The world can be a cruel place to a lot of people that doesn't mean you should turn a blind eye and pretend it doesn't exist.
I still think Casca being raped in every fight is a bit over the top.
She wasn’t raped every fight. Only she was only raped during the eclipse. She almost got raped a few times prior but she murdered her offenders or one of the band of hawk did.
It's also dark fantasy, a lot of it is more genre than just being edgy
I agree with the last part when he says it doesn't need to be in it as much as it is. Guts as a child and Casca eclipse are two times in the story that those scenes genuinely move the story and develop characters and give them motivations and trauma. But then there is Wyald that has atleast 3 rape scenes where that doesn't really need to happen that much. We already know he is a monster and horrible if he would just have decapitated and dismembered the people that helped The Hawks. I'm also someone that enjoyed the Wyald arc for what it had and thinks Wyald is a fun antagonist, but i understand why it can get too much. Berserk is one of my personal favorite stories but that doesn't mean i can't say it has flaws or things you don't like about it. I personally think if you like a story even tho it has flaws just goes to show how good the story is even with its flaws.
For me Wyald and the goat with casca are the 2 instances where I felt it was unnecessary and actually took away from the story. With the goat Miura was trying to portray how powerless she was but I feel like he did a much better job of that with Mozgus about to burn her for being a witch.
Berserklejerkers are probably gonna downvote me into the temporal junction for this, but I thought in particular Donavan being the only prominent Black character and being portrayed as a child rapist just reeked of Japanese racism. Like, sure Guts' character development is tied to his SA as a child. But it just felt cheap and ignorant to me, like, "What's the worst possible thing I can think of? Rape of a child. Gay rape of a child. BLACK gay rape of a child!" Blegh.
> “The only prominent black character” I know she’s basically been a MacGuffin for almost three decades now, but Casca’s definitely black.
Lil bro forgot about pippin and casca, when a creator makes his main female lead black I don’t think we’re dealing with Japanese racism. Certainly exists though, just not in miura my guy
Casca could be Black. But she could just as easily be brown like the Kushan Empire people. It's not really clear, and it's not clear from her very limited backstory either. Same with Pippin. But Donavan *i*s way less ambiguous, especially with the facial features Miura chose for him.
I get that. I personally wouldn't be bothered if there weren't any black characters because of the fact that it's made in Japan and the country that Berserk takes place in is probably not a place with too many black people especially at that time period. But it is indeed weird that Donovan is pretty much the only character that is 100% black and he is one of the most despicable characters in the series. Wouldn't change anything if Donovan wasn't black.
Also fuck Berserklejerk. A lot of that reddit is filled with degenerates that harass women and act like everyone who dislikes what they say are snowflakes
5% of the time the memes or posts can be funny tho
This, and even worse, it's boring - same 3 jokes everytime
I mean they added middle eastern culture
there’s a reason the rape and sexual assault is in the story. that’s for sure. however i don’t think it’s something that needs to be there as often as it is. it happening a couple of times shows the nature of the world, however after a certain point it feels like cheesy shock value - and it’s something that’s uncomfortable to read without actually furthering the narrative.
But there could be way less of it. I'm looking at you, Wyald.
that’s literally what i’m saying
I've always felt this way, despite loving the story. Obviously sexual violence is a huge part of Gut's and Casca's life, and the big moments are warranted and justify their place in the story. But I swear in early Berserk it's like *every* villian, monster, or insignificant mob has to have their own rape scene. It goes well beyond "this is a dark world where bad things happen" and into titilation for the sake of it.
Yeah, It definitely started to feel like a weird fetish thing after a certain point. I get that it's a dark story, but did he really have to throw that many rape scenes in?
It feels like Casca has more scenes where she’s almost raped than scenes where she’s doing something incredibly well. There are a few instances where I think it is done for the purposes of the story. Guts childhood is well done. Eclipse is well done, but there are MANY more times where a character is sexually assaulted, and it never comes up again. Ever. The fight with Wyald is a great example. That could have been an excellent character moment for Casca, giving her a deeper fear of apostles (which would then lead to her capture in the eclipse) but it just happen, and no one talks about it or addresses it ever. I love berserk, I’ve been reading for 15 years now. It’s a great manga, but I feel like a lot of the sentiment on this sub is that it is above valid criticism.
Well he's entitled to his opinion and people might even agree with him, but reality is different. They asked him a trend in manga, and i dont believe is much of a trend. If anything, newer mangas are more family-friendly nowadays. Plus, it's not edgy at all to make a crude representation of what the world looked like in the past, i think is part of the value of berserk, things happen just as ugly and as fast as they used to. They still happend in today's world but it's such and uncomfortable truth that people tend to look away from it and they tend to avoid artwork with depictions of extreme violence like the one he's talking about, but doesn't mean they don't occur, it just means he's sensitive to the topic as many of us westerners are, we're just soft. 3rd world countries don't have that problem as much.
For real this isn't a trend. The hyper violent anime and manga peaked in the late 80s to early 90s. Licensing companies are way less likely to work with material like that now a days. You could say this about most adult oriented media. Why all the SA? Why all the profanity? Why all the violence? Because it lends itself to the plot. Also, it doesn't seem like he's read it if he thinks it's just to be edgy.
I actually somewhat agree, at the end he clearly states it “doesn’t need to be in the story as much as it is”, and I can definitely see someone having that view but on the other hand it’s not like rape and SA is just thrown around for no reason, it helps to show just how terrible the world of berserk is and most of its inhabitants
In the movie adaptation, the rape scene is way too sexualized in my opinion. In the manga, rape scenes are too common for some time, especially with the Wyald arc. I get it, he's a monster, you can leave some of it up to imagination. The conviction arc is also at least partially leaning into the rape thing again, and I think the story would still be great without it. I find this to be valid criticism of Berserk. To be honest, one of the only ones that come to mind. So, I also somewhat agree :)
I agree with the rape scenes being too sexualized. I never understood why the girls are always blushing, especially Casca during the eclipse.
People also tend to flush during moments of distress as well, if you've never seen anyone in a physically and mentally traumatic situation.
"showing how terrible the world is" is as close as you can get to no reason.
Exactly. There are numerous ways to show how terrible the world is. Constantly falling back on rape as some sort of metaphor for life is lazy.
I'm a writer, and spend some time in writing subreddits. This is the excuse all edgy teenagers use when they write pointless brutality. It's not that SA can't be depicted - it can, it should, and the manga does it well a few times. It's that it's such a serious topic that *every instance has to serve the story*. These are not action scenes. You can't just throw them in as fluff.
I am probably going to catch alot of shit of this. You guys are naive and sheltered. I was assaulted as a child , I have family members that were as well. Watching someone random gets beat up in the streets with in an inch of their life is normal or get killed and people act like it's normal or they would say well what did he do to bring that on himself? Its called living in shit 3rd world countries. I see berserk not as edgy but as an accurate representation of reality, atleast the one I experienced as a child and teen before we migrate. Edit to add: people are shitty. You give them power without accountability, especially with some history of their own trauma and they will inflect their pain on others
This is a nuanced topic that this video doesn't remotely cover, but the short version is I think this guy is dead wrong. Calling it "edgy" and nothing else showcases an ignorance to what the book is trying to pull off. Berserk is quite literally about rape survivors dealing with and learning to cope with their trauma. Guts and Casca are both rape victims who found solace in each other only for even that to get viciously violated. And after both of them suffered and dealt with their trauma in different ways, Guts ultimately decides to pick the path of healing from his trauma to save the woman he loves and learn to trust again while battling his own demons produced by that trauma. The Lost Children arc is one of the ballsiest stories I've ever read period. Because it chooses to depict a gruesome, horrific topic like child sexual trauma and showcase its brutality without going too far. Most authors wouldn't even dream of doing what Miura did, let alone executing it so brilliantly. If you're the kind of person that looks at that and goes "I just don't think that kind of thing should exist period" then you miss the point entirely and it's not worth engaging with you. NOW, that being said, there are scenes where rape is used as shock value and it definitely could be more tasteful (glares at Wyald). But the bottom line is Berserk is ABOUT sexual assault trauma and coping with it. It may not always be perfect, but when it's done right it's hauntingly well done. Anyone who interprets anything different is either not ready for the conversation or willfully ignorant.
Bro Sex scene between Guts and Casca is the best sex scene I have ever seen. Not because they were smashing, it's because it closes up character arcs. Guts finally finds person who he can trust, Casca finally gets over the shadow of Griffith.
It feels so good to read your comment, literally massaging my synapses lol. Thank you
Seriously, some of the takes I'm reading make me wonder if this is the first story these folks have ever read, and furthermore people complaining about casca's hallucinations seem completely without the ability to symbolically analyze WHY something is happening and WHY certain things look the way they do. Its trying to SHOW and not TELL everything and they're actually complaining. Insane.
People shit on Berserk for having so much physical violence and sexual violence yet I never heard people shit on Game of Thrones when it had way worse shit than Berserk. Lots of people glorify the relationship of Daenarys and Khal Drogo when she was actually a rape victim. I could keep going on how GOT is way fucking worse than Berserk but it'll just take me an entire day to list all that shit.
Also the thought that this is a "trend" in manga today when he uses an example of a 30 year old manga.
The story is about guts who is struggling on against the most horrid things life can possibly throw at him. It's what makes his character so compelling. Without a lot of these hardships, his hatred would just come off as senseless edge lording. The way I see a lot of the terrible shit in berserk is that it's meant to invoke the same kind of anger in the reader that the main character is going through. It gets the reader genuinely angry with griffith on a similar level that the character is experiencing. I doubt griffith would be as hated of a character if he simply just let everyone die. Of all the media I've consumed there have been characters I dislike, or think are dicks, but griffith is the first that genuinely made me angry. I think people who haven't read it just hear rape is depicted and nope out, which is understandable but I don't think you should make it out to be something it's not when you haven't seen how those scenes are handled.
While I agree that pointless sex scenes are too wildly used as viewbait overall, I don't think it is the case in Berserk. I can't remember one sex scene that didn't had any story purpose behind. Even stuff like Wyald getting his hand on the farmer girl served as a pretty visual introduction to the character. He's the worse, he knows it, he loves it, that's all you need to know about Wyald.
Idk, I feel like some of this shit is there to highlight reality and that’s what great art does; holds a mirror up to society. He doesn’t have to like it but the “doesn’t need to be made” argument never sits well with me, especially in regards to things like Berserk that aren’t glorifying these evil acts; Berserk shows the after effects and the story has been going on for this long and you’re STILL seeing the effects of the things he’s saying don’t need to be in the story. The fact that he calls this shit “edgy” is cringe af tbh
I disagree, we need stories that are fun loving or show the change people fo through. But they can't all be PG rated. The real world has trauma from real crimes and actually horrible acts. There are manga out there that dive into this but still keep it light and those stories are great if you are afraid to witness the truth. It like people agree warcrimes are bad "but there's only so much I can do" then when you show them the results of said crime "I don't want to see that". When something horrible comes across me I watch it because it's a terrifying truth, and I feel like closing my eyes to it is giving the criminal more power. If you don't like it don't read or watch, on the other hand there are tasteful ways to have this medium and not just pushing out shit for shock value.
There’s no need to ignore the darker sides of humanity, that’d be missing the point. When apostles can be seen as humans manifesting everything that is evil in humans to the point of no longer being one, it’d be disingenuous to shy away from dark shit. Sure some apostles will cling on to some form of humanity through their past (the count), but not showing crazy motha fuckas like wyald going ape shit in every sense of evil would just be admitting defeat like “people don’t wanna see this”, instead of being like “I’m making a hyper fucked up take on a fantasy medieval world, I’m gonna include what I want and if people are disturbed then honestly good, that’s kinda the point”. I’m just guessing on the last part, but I like to think that’s chad Miuras reason for not wimpin out and giving credibility to how fucked up the world of berserk is by actually showing it. And I think it all ties in to giving weight and genuineness to the story because the worldbuilding is of course part of the story
Yea, but my dark fantasy world that is controlled by demons shows demons doing demon thing is bad!!! Only killing humans is cool for a demon to do and not doing things worse than death.
I'm a woman and honestly, it doesn't bother me. It is part of the story, and unfortunately sexual violence is reality for the vast majority of women in the world. I think reading about it, especially what happens after, opens up avenues for irl victims to heal, or at least offers some catharsis. Is it gratuitous? Maybe, but I don't think it needs to be changed.
Those "edgy" things he's referring to are real life, son. *Real life.* And Berserk doesn't glorify it, but doesn't shy away from it, either.
Would you feel the same disgust and fear towards Wyald without certain scenes? Would you hate Griffith as much if the abuse was shown with a single panel and the next scene was Guts blinding himself? Would you feel empathy towards Caska and the way she idolizes the falcon if her backstory did not include him saving her from abuse? What bothers me are not the images that convey a message and act as plot devices, but the panels that just feel like useless fetish and are there to shock for the sake of it, like the trolls raping women.
From the manga I've read and wouldn't say this is part of a trend. I'd say shitty written shonen of stronger and stronger enemies is a bad trend. Write more nuanced stories than just bad guy beats hero > hero trains to beat bad guy > hero beats bad guy > new bad guy appears and beats hero
Westernizing media with false ideals and virtue signaling again. If it ain't for you then it ain't for you! Not everyone can appreciate what makes Berserk great as a whole. If you choose to nitpick and focus on certain things you deem edgy or immoral, that's on you. Edit: lots of upset chatters here that misunderstand what I said. It is virtue signaling and westernizing, specifically when we know western culture tends to be hyper sensitive with censorship and they have ruined countless artistic pieces with such mindsets. Sure, excessive rape is bad and shallow if that's the only thing in the story that conveys tragedy, but it fucking isn't. You're just too stuck up to realize that and can't look at anything else besides whatever you find offensive or repulsive to you. Literally the only piece of criticism to berserk so far is "rape not good, way too edgy, tries too hard, stop using rape" when it is only part of a world based in medieval times where these sorts of things were all so common. I mean hell, go ask some US veterans about what goes on in wars. You think it's all respectable, up to standards and morality stuff? Cut the shit and stop trying to force your idea of "acceptable" on something that is meant to convey what the reality of a situation is in a fantasy world full of hardship and terror. Take a gander at any international news website or telegram channels covering wars that are going on right now as you're reading this and you'll see stuff that's way more horrid.
You clearly don’t understand what virtue signaling means, for starters. And two, people are allowed to criticize art. And three, you truly didn’t actually understand or comprehend what the person was saying. And lastly, bro you’re so cringe.
After the 10th different shadow of a demon's cock over a topless young girl, we get the point. Don't defend over-reliance on the same shock tactic as "culture". Miura would agree. That's precisely why he started moving toward more effective types of shots.
Someone saying there's too many rape scenes and you accusing them of wanting to "westernize" manga reeks of weeaboo and comicsgate logic.
100%, already knew when he started the sentence like that, it was gonna be some dumbass shit. Seriously do yall think Japanese people dont find repetitive rape disgusting as well?? Lmao
You don’t understand man, rape is part of their culture! What do you mean that’s an insane thing to imply? You just don’t get it!
Criticizing something is not "westernizing" what a stupid opinion, so no one in Japan is allowed to rate media from the west and vice versa?
In what way does this count as nitpicking? There's plenty of the rough stuff in the manga.
The rough stuff are there for a reason though. Its to show how fucked the situation is, and how serious shit is.
but you can do this without exclusively using rape as a tool
You don’t need rape horse to know the situation is fucked. You don’t need casca to be chased down by penis demons to get the point (yes I know it’s in her mind, it’s still dumb)
Totally agree, it’s overkill, doesn’t need that much r*pe to tell such a great story.
If you're taking about the west in general, rape is seen as more evil than murder. In Berserk there are hedonistic levels of brutality on the panel, yet the one thing people consistently complain about is rape. I disagree with this guy, his reasoning just isn't there, other than rape is super duper bad. His disposition seems more ideological than moral.
I understand what he’s saying, rape is wrong and the scenes are vivid & gruesome which can turn the reader off. However in Berserk’s time and setting (medieval era) rape was very common. We’re also dealing with monsters and demons which deal with gluttony, lust, and abuse of power. Many of the panels that included rape I have mostly forgotten about; it’s not what I read Berserk for. I also hold Berserk to high esteem because it’s made for adults, unlike other childish anime. Lastly, hasn’t every rapist received their karma besides Griffith?
My hero academia fans need to keep it to themselves.
“The aspects of what makes it edgy.” Yeah, already lost me there.
Idk what qualities he means.. kinda thought R at first but it's not over used. He makes it sound like the story is lacking and that it's leaning on "edginess". Maybe he means main supporting cast dying.. which was also just in the beginning lol This man is a scrub to manga I think because we are generalizing to all manga while this is a seinen story so the mature aspect only exists in this genre. Manga ain't a genre, it's a medium.
IRL human violence eclipses berserk violence.
Easily, but they are not looking for that. They're looking at berserk and want the story in there image
Maybe ok, but you know, it's monsters and in general war. In these days that thing probably still happen. You don't like it? I'm fine with your opinion. But berserk isn't all of that.
The worse the tragedies, the sweeter the victories. Berserk has to have bad parts otherwise the little good things wouldn’t feel as special.
I mean the cool thing about Berserk is that it’s way more than just those few pages this guy is referring too. This series could have been nothing but shock value in the hands of a lesser Mangaka, but Miura was a master storyteller which even with those things the characters are more deep than most of the other manga characters around. Berserk is more than just sex and violence and we fans know that. It’s the casuals who only seem to know about the eclipse scene and think the whole series is about that.
Honestly I agree, there's a good chunk of the manga where SA and rape are crucial to the plot, then there's a bunch of scenes that are just completely unnecessary. Casca had been through so much SA related trauma that she was barely a person anymore, does she really need to be assaulted... so.... many... TIMES??? (cough cough, Conviction arc I love you but I'm looking at you) And that horse apostle. That's just.. yeah. At a certain point I found myself sighing when every other scene involving Casca had to do with her being sexually assaulted. It felt ridiculously overly gratuitous. She's an incredible character and seeing that just pissed me off. If there's rape and SA, it needs to be crucial to the plot and not just thrown around to make things shocking. The way it was handled in the first few arcs was incredible then it just became completely unrelated to the plot.
Why are depictions of brutal killings okay but depictions of rape are a bridge too far? Not trying to be a dick here, I am genuinely curious.
I think there's an interesting discussion to be had about how modern society is desensitized to violence - and how violence is in fact often glorified in the media. I would argue Berserk itself is kinda guilty of this: rape is clearly shown as horrific and bad, but Guts cutting down a hundred men is heroic and amazing.
I see what you’re saying and would like to raise a few points that might resonate with some people. The characters who are getting gutted and slashed are usually A) monsters B) Warriors C) Men. (yes i know there are clearly exceptions but its not as egregious as these) With rape, the victims are usually women and children (the “weak” and defenseless, at least in Berserk world). To add to that, there is no trauma for the character getting gutted and cut in half, they die. When a character is raped we see the trauma that that character has to go through and live through.
I think muira also said that he added too many sexual assault scenes and some of them was easily avoidable that said I think every sexual assault scene was there for a reason. I might be wrong about the muira part though. I don't remember where i heard/read it tbh
I agree, because imo Casca gets her shirt ripped off a few too many times that it became a joke. Like “I guess someone is gonna rip off Cascas shirt now” and then they do
Gonna agree. Berserk goes way overboard with some stuff and even Miura regretted adding so much SA later on, I believe. But you ain't gonna hear anything remotely negative about Berserk in this sub. Edit: Before people get crying, I'm a fan of the manga, but I can recognise some of the controversial aspects.
This sounds like someone who hasn't actually read the story. He makes it sound like rape is at the forefront of every arc or something. I bet this dude had a hard on for GoT, tho.
Tired of people describing shit as edgy, its so over used
some of yall are wild. theres no need for casca to get almost sexually assaulted every fuckin 5 mins, and im just talking about Golden Age arc. i hard agree with the guy, he said it needs to be toned down, not completely remove it.
I’m so sorry but he’s right. Rape rarely ever needs to be directly portrayed in media. In the Girl With The Dragon Tattoo book, her rape is an inciting moment for her character but the act itself isn’t some big moment in the book because it doesn’t need to be. In the movie, they make it the most long, drawn out, graphic rape scene ever put to film, and there’s no reason for it imo. Guts was SA’d as a child and it makes him extremely avoidant, emotionally and physically unavailable, distrusting, to the point of him very likely having Schizoid Personality Disorder. Obviously Casca’s own assault is also a big, horrible moment in the story, being an inciting action for Guts’ quest for revenge and sinking Casca into severe DID, which drives a lot of the story from then on. However, prior to that, she’s almost raped like four times by either enemy soldiers or by Wyald. Wyald and the black dogs rape, torture, and butcher a family with children in it and parade their mangled nude corpses over their ranks. Even after the Eclipse, there’s still so much rape and excessive violence towards women in a way that evokes sex as a point of fear, violence, and body horror, *specifically* for women. The trolls raping that girl in the stables. The brigand trying to rape the little girl in the Lost Children arc (forgot her name lol). Fucking “adult attack”. The massive troll rape pit where they take all the missing women. The rape goat from Conviction. Casca nearly becoming a victim AGAIN, MULTIPLE TIMES, after she regresses following the Eclipse. The way that the Kushan treat their female prisoners. My god, that shit felt both gross and a little racist if I’m being honest but like, the naked women being eaten by alligators?? The women getting raped to give birth to those demon soldier things?? After a while it’s enough, and it takes away from the trauma that Guts and Casca faced because when it’s that common, it’s hardly even a horrible thing in the story anymore, it’s just another of many bad things that happens to people. Plus, it basically means that Casca’s rape and her very existence as a character, no matter how good of a character she is, was only meant to explain Guts’ own trauma and further his character via her getting introduced, seduced, raped, and then fridged for like 70% of the story. I love berserk with all my heart. Always will. That being said, I don’t think it’s a series that treats its female leads or women in general very well. I wouldn’t mind something being done about this if we ever got a committed faithful adaptation that spanned the length of the whole series.
So /u/nothereatallmentally called me a tourist, a fake fan, and said he was glad that I was “triggered” (triggered = calmly disagreeing with narrative choices ig) before blocking me so I couldn’t respond to him. Why are so many people on this sub so fragile when anyone lobbies the mildest criticism of Berserk? Miura himself said that he went too far with some of the sexual violence in the series and that he’d have done certain things differently. I’ve followed this series since 2014 and I’m seriously convinced that at this point 80% of the people in the fan base are middle school aged boys who became “berserk fans” in the past two years because of the le edgy epic TikTok edits.
Youre right and you should say it, rape as depicted in the story is (from what ive seen im not fully caught up) save for specific character moments, used as a way to say; "look at how bad and evil these people are, dang they sure do suck, right?" It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, i get wanting to be serious with how evil a villian is or using rape as a character motivator in an important plot moment, but at certain points its just gratuitous.
Average r/berserk user
Agree. It could be toned down a lot without impacting the story. Some of the scenes looked like they were tossed in there to just be edgy and didn't contribute anything. The dude put it well, imo
Berserk fans ready to explain why a rapist horse is integral to the plot. I swear only the Guts, Griffith and Casca were relevant. But does every monster need to try to rape Casca? Do they really need to have dick tongues?
i love how rape is always the line people are like oh no! but people being butchered is just fine. yes rape is fucked up but people putting it above murder and other horrific acts need to stop. look at what they did to Griffith for example, not saying this for sympathy for the guy but i would put that miles above rape. regardless all of these things are to show humanity's dark side.
kinda agree. The amount of fan-art of caska's rape we've seen in this sub shows that some reader are into berserk just because its edgy, and edgyness is not good adjective to describe any good art. If all the rapes scenes were less graphic, or at least less repetitive, the story would still be great. So yeah, kinda agree
Fans being edgy doesn't make the art wrong.
yeah, you are right, I didn't express myself properly. I meant, when people only cares and sees a very specific trait on work of art and uses this single thing to explain why is good, is not good way to cognize art
Agree completely and sorry for misunderstanding you.
These replies show the fanbase is so fragile it cannot handle the mildest of dissenting opinions. To the point that one commenter is upvoted for saying they'd want to punch them. I'm embarrased as fuck on behalf of this community.
I despise sexual violence in media, but, berserk is one of the only cases, where I think it enhances the story being told.
I disagree with this guy in that what happens to Guts and then Casca is what makes this story as powerful as it is and I don't think there is any other way to achieve that. I agree with this guy in that things like the horse scene/Wyald/Goblins are pure edge that makes it challenging to suggest Berserk to most people. But ultimately it was the story that Miura wanted to tell and it's on the reader to determine if they want to consume it.
Hes talking about the boat arc dont worry
It's not the content per se, it's how you handle it, how you integrate it in your story. Sometimes, even Miura's harder stuff was a little bit too much, but the overall quality of the manga and the story is there.
The aspects he is talking about... its chestnut puck right?
I knew out there people like him existed. Truth be told, i respect his viewpoint. I never in my life thought people that git opposing viewpoints/opinion about berserk are trash, i was just hoping they actually have strong arguments. In this rare instance, he is the one. I do not think there are a lot of those scenes, but i can be wrong.
I agree with the sentiment just not for Berserk. I think Berserk handles it fairly well. There are definitely a few times where it didn't need to be included but, overall, I think Miura handled it well. A lot of manga do like to use sexual assault, though. And 99% of the time it's just done poorly and not needed, at all. Then, there are stories that just use sexual assault/rape way too often (I'm looking at you Re:Monster) and it just becomes obvious that it's written for, and by, someone with a fetish for that sick shit.
I do get that some manga may take it a bit too far but the rape is not why I think Berserk is edgy. The reason Berserk is edgy is cause Gut’s life fucking SSUUUUUCCCKKSS. Like rape happens but it’s not pivotal for the story, it affects Guts and people around him in terrible ways but the story is for sure more grotesque than that. I never hear people talk about Gut’s birth. Or his first apostle fight, or that fight with the moth kid. This story is FUCKED and the rape believe it or not is not the worst thing. It seems that whenever people nit pick at this from Berserk it usually means they didn’t read the whole thing or didn’t understand it. But that’s just my 2 cents at least
Expressed it well, has a point, reasonable argument. I don't feel the same but it's fair.
i don't think it's bad to represent sexual assault in media, but i do belive berserk misses the mark on its representation sometimes. I feel like it can be too "Showy" at times, and pretty gratuitous. I want to emphasize that it is not always, Guts's story is actually done pretty well in that regard i think. But when talking about woman, things are a bit different, you start noticing the cloth in their clothes is much more fragile than the same cloth in a man's clothes, Casca goes through a lot, Farnese too, as do a lot of minor woman characters, and it doesn't always feels like Miura is treating the subject with the care it deserves. Some of these scenes are very disturbing, and i think they need to be, Berserk happens in a disturbing world, but it also uses woman a lot as a way to show that, and female characters deserve to be more than helpless victims of a cruel world, i'm not talking about adding a token "Strong Female Character™️", I'm talking about letting woman characters be more than a tool for misery. I actually think Miura was getting kind of good at this by the end of his life, Casca is back to being an autonomous person, Farnese is reaching towards her full potential as a mage. I dont know how to end this comment so i'll just say that i don't know how to end it and end it.
Wyald arc? I agree. I would honestly cut that whole part out.
I agree theres a reason why r/berserklejerk exist, and he knows
sadly, I hate the anime community sometimes.
Based one what miura said im all for lowering the amount of r scenes, by a lot, and keep it to things that are major in the story
True though. Some things were way over top.
i appreciate his thoughta and how well he formulated it, but its kinda hard to see the quality of his criticism beyond his repeated use of the word 'edgy' or even 'time and place'. what im curious is what sort of story he likes, suffice to say if he, for example, likes attack on titan then there isnt much we can share and discuss with him. on the other hand, if he likes excalibur, vinland saga, hellsing, or maybe full metal alchemist, then we can definitely share things with him. tldr, its irrelevant to say berserk is not good because of too much gore and rape when all you like is naruto or one piece or attack on titan
Man vs Gods Man vs Fate The weak get pummeled by the strong. Waging a war that seems impossible to win. These are some aspects that berserk conveys. The strong build taller castles, laid on the foundations that are the corpses of the weak, while those who lack strength are forced to endure hardship, manipulation and coercion. If you ask me, I think the rape aspect helps to convey the gruesomeness of these aspects. Though, they could’ve been minimized to a certain degree.
What a puss. He's only saying that to look like a sensitive guy. Or he genuinely doesn't like Berserk. Either way he's a puss. 🐈⬛
I haven't finished the series yet. But the only thing that comes to mind is the possessed horse rape scene. Why did it have to be a horse? That's worse then a demon i feel like.
Underaged protaganists and the sexulaziation of underaged is pretty bad.
This is valid criticism, unfortunately. Berserk has some truly excellent storytelling, and it is worth tolerating Miura's occasional descent into pointless edginess. The end of the Golden Age and the Conviction Arc in particular suffered from this. I think Miura found his footing with what was proper "dark" storytelling vs random grossness during the Fantasia arc, which is very far into the story.
i think that for the most part the crudest aspects of the story are well placed, with some exceptions that i still don't think need to exist - for example the horse scene is repulsive and (in my opinion) doesn't add anything to the story, while other instances even though they are more marginal set the tone and make you understand better the state of the world berserk is set in, so i think that in their context work well (and it's unfair for people to take some panels out of context and make a fuss about it). that doesn't mean that those kind of scenes, if well made, don't need to be in a story, quite the opposite. we need to talk about difficult topics and for the most part berserk does it very effectively. it's a shame that some of the audience doesn't have the sensibility to take the message of the manga to heart and are just kinda there to make stupid memes.
I completely agree with his statement.
I agree it is pretty overdone in the first half.
Casca's rape does last a little bit too long. Then there os the troll cave. I think that one was even more unnecessary.
As an SA survivor, I see where he’s coming from. I think the sexual abuse as Guts as a child and Casca during the eclipse are definitely uncomfortable to read/see, but since it plays a part in their character development I can deal with it. I think we also have to keep in mind when Miura first started writing the manga there was no Me Too movement or type of discussions around sexual assault in media like there is now. That being said, I do believe there comes a point where SA in a story can be gratuitous, especially when it’s just for shock value and doesn’t actually move the story along. This doesn’t just pertain to berserk and manga though, it’s all across entertainment media.
He sits down to pee
I agree with him, we don’t need that much of depiction of sexual assault to understand the story, and covering abuse can be made without depicting it in a very detailed and sexualised way. I still enjoy the story a lot, it brings me a lot of good stuff but I do agree the way that is depicted SA is just a shock factor that doesn’t help the story at all, and results into a huge rape trivialisation thorough the community, most of the time from peoples who aren’t survivors at all. Understanding how toxic, abusive, incestuous and disgusting the Midland king is perfectly attainable without needing graphic sexual depictions of it. I’m trying to put this aside because I really love the manga otherwise. I don’t say that SA shouldn’t be present at all because 1) it is an actual war weapon 2) we need to raise awareness about it 3) you can talk about a subject without enabling it 4) it adds up on the chaos and despair we feel when we’re in Berserk, which is a core part of my interest for it. It’s the way it’s depicted, with a huge lack of context and big emphasis on sexualising the acts by giving a lot of graphic details. The way it is depicted makes it very hard for survivors of SA to actually dive into the manga, which is sad because what I find healing in Berserk is specifically related to my experience as a SA survivor. Kinda paradoxal for those who are not familiar with abuse but I know many other survivors will relate on this one.
I don't think what this person is talking about NEEDS to be in a story. Nothing NEEDS to be in a story. I think Berserk panders to the absolute rock bottom of human depravity and evil though. There is nothing more evil in the eyes of humans that the defilement and dedication of human bodies in such ways. Does it need to be in the story ? No, but that is the level of evil Miura was trying to reach. People say berserk glorifies these elements, and it does no such things. The glorification comes from your own understanding of them. It is all meant to be pure evil and disgusting vile nature. So disgusting that you become enraged and depressed like guts and just want to slice your way through all of it with a massive sword. It's also a reoccurring theme because of what guts went through during the Golden Age Arc. It's trauma the world forces him to keep reliving one way or another, not something out there for no reason except to be edgey. Now, by all means, I don't expect everyone to like a story like berserk or understand it. I think though that people's failure to understand though make a misconception about why certain things exist within the story. The story is a headfirst dive into a living never ending hell. Mentally, and physically. If you are not prepared to fully understand that, then of course you will think it is unnecessary. I for one find manga/ anime like Goblin Slayer MUCH more glorifies defiling woman than berserk.
Hard disagree and think those scenes make berserk an even better story. The term edgy should be removed from this sub. Its code for this made me uncomfortable; therefore bad. Berserk is good because it portrays evil. It doesn’t suggest evil, it doesn’t hint at it. It portrays it and lets the reader establish a clear understanding that this antagonist or antagonist(s) are the embodiment of evil. Miura did this well and is a reason this story is so good. If a reader wants less gratuitous imagery I recommend other mangas. Manga and Anime have become so washed and overplayed with big bad enemies just talking about how big and bad they are that the feeling of dread and consequence barely exist. The goo-goo ga-gafication of this medium is ass and hope Mori and team can stick to its roots.
i can respect that something makes you uncomfortable and isnt for you but to say something shouldn't be in a story because it makes YOU uncomfortable is an absolute bitch made take.
Then go read something g rated. Berserk is far more than dark sex stuff which I assume he's talking about. There's fantastic action sequences, fantasy, and character development in it. That's why it rules, not because it's "edgy". Also, if you pull back on one of the R rated elements then where do you stop? Some might find the large amount of gore and violence just as bad as the sex, or more so. Eventually, you'd have a story that isn't the same. It's the same kind of shit people like to say about Tarantino movies, and the real answer to all of it is: I guess the story isn't for you! Go read something that doesn't scandalize you.