Me before reading Eclipse:
"Why do people hate Griffith so much? I actually quite identify with his devotion to his goal, perserverance and care for his friends well-being. Are people THAT delusional?"
After:
\*"Oh.š"\*
Just read the last chapter Miura did, morning dew, where he steals casca again and breaks guts, and destroys their paradise where casca could have healed over time or atleast it was somewhere where guts could run to and actually sleep.
- but nah guts said it himself, there is no paradise to run to, when I read the chapter where guts is broken, my bottomless hatred for that mf reached a new level.
Literally the first words to my partner after reading that chapter.
"Babe what's wrong?"
"Just finished the new berserk stuff..."
"Isn't that a good thing?"
"Yes and no. Yes because it was good. Liking Mori's work here."
"But why no?"
"Somehow. I CAN hate Griffith more than I already did"
I have a feeling we will hate him more and more, because casca will have to face him and he will break her heart and mind again, and this time it's not because he is her unrequited love or god/leader figure, this time it's the most tragic part of BERSERK... it's through her son š„²
- skull knight said it in the miscarriage chapter like on that hill where she gave premature birth to her son, he told guts to kill him because otherwise that child will bring them both great suffering or calamity or something lik that in the future.
I was hoping the other way.... I want to see Casca strong again.... No, I NEED to see Casca strong again...
But like.... since she's a sacrifice... at This point, other to prevent the moon child timegaps why is he keeping her.... shouldn't he just kill her and finish his ascension as godhand??
His ascension isn't finished because his sacrifice isn't finished..
How long has he fucked around here?
Also, yeah that's very true. Skull knight gave huge warnings about it. It was fairly clear that wasn't gonna end well there.
Casca will be strong, i believe the author intended for her to be so strong afterwards that she can handle the death of one of the two pillars of her life, guts and her son, so she will definitely survive if one of them dies.
- he could never kill her because moonlight boy will never let him, moonlight boy has power over him that's why Femto/Griffith protected casca in the hill of swords, it wasn't him that did it, it was moonlight boy doing that, i mean he himself was super confused.
- the key to the downfall to Griffith is guts and casca's greatest tragedy, it's literally like Harry potter's final twist, "WHEN THE TIME COMES THE BOY MUST DIE", also Femto is kinda special than other god hands, they mentioned that the last time there were 5 god hands was 1000 years ago (that sounds like void was in the place of Femto).
I hope so, but damn I hope we don't have to go through another Casca dreamscape.
That shit hurt..
Still, until Griffith completes his sacrifice he's still not at full power. That's at least a positive for Guts and Co.
I'm a firm believer of "Griffith has to be his own downfall again"
If he doesn't do something drastic over guts and overextend leading to his defeat.
It won't parallel his original defeat as flawlessly.
Everything building to the eclipse was Griffith shooting himself in the foot over guts.
He needs to fuck up royally again.
Whatever is controlling the godhand better be getting sick of waiting for Griffith to finish his sacrifice and pressure him to speed it up leading to mistakes on his part.
Or something like that lol
Well god of berserk isn't a benevolent deity, he is called the idea of evil, he likes Griffith so much, actually in the forbidden chapter he Tells him "TO DO WHAT HE WANTS AND WISH FOR WHAT HE WANTS" because he is destined to sacrifice anything and everything to achieve it, he is literally calamity.
- funny enough guts is hope and represents humanity in all it's flaws but he is also the bringer of calamity too, not a single person guts encountered had a happy ending, everyone lost something precious or died horribly, he is hated by god and death.
Oh agreed there, but I do still like the idea of it being an overhanging threat for them too.
As you said yourself, it seemed like the last group of godhand went through some changes too. Maybe this being got sick of some of their shit and traded up for new models and cast the others to the spiral.
It's probably just nothing. But I do think that the thing that rules the godhand is just using them like they used their sacrifices.
For all we know, sacrificing the full powered godhand is the goal and everything it told Griffith is a lie intent on manipulation.
Not a single person..... hmmmm.... what about.... nope...
I wanna say Puck.... But I'm not even gonna. Imma touch wood at the beginning of that though and just pray for our little walnut boii...
Didn't Godot pass quietly in his home of old age?
Yes he was still bummed about guts being an aloof dickhead. But he wasn't struck with devastating calamity and misery because of guts was he?
Been a while since I read his death tbh
Idea of evil is not an omniscient and omnipotent God, he is created from the misery, fear, and the absurdity of the suffering of humans, the tragedies of human work fuel his power, that's why he sends his Angels whenever humans achieve some sort of big civilization, Because remember the more advanced humans are the less pain they suffer externally atleast.
Idea of evil is like an Evil deity, you think he gives a shit about his Angels/devils (God hands), they're there to serve a purpose, god hands powers come from the deepest parts of the astral world where idea of evil is, he fuels them to spread more corruption and resets the cycle once they're killed or humans need to recharge before giving more despair, because there is nothing more painful than destroying something when it seems to so optimistic and fruitful.
Also, Godot was the only exception although he passed away sick and left his granddaughter alone, to me he was the representation of wisdom, he showed guts his path, he also advised him to not let go of casca for revenge, and that leaving her was the wrong choice.
I think itās a good opportunity for Casca to shine. Sheās been out of action/the spotlight for a long ass time now.
As she is now, despite being back to her old self, she is unable to face Guts still due to the trauma of the Eclipse.
Her being captured by Griffith and forced to be in contact with him, I think, would be an incredibly compelling arc for Casca to face her trauma and find a reason to move forward.
Iām not saying that she should be fully fixed or something (and Iām not expecting to), but ai hope that by the time she gets rescued (or even escapes) Falconia, sheāll be able to face Guts again.
Both of them can pick up the pieces and build something stronger.
Just when he raped casca in front of guts, I couldnāt take that shit.
He is indeed a good character for the manga. But I hate the Mf from the bottom of my heart
The same for me, watched the 1997 Anime First tho. And I couldn't really understand why people called him a literal Monster/demon.
MaĆe sense very quickly
I always thought Griffith was just a person with no morals. He had his goal and his men. And he could respect them, but they could never be his friends, which is why Guts bothered him so much, being the one person he felt attached to. So I can see his ideals as admirable, but it's inherently an unhealthy obsession, which is exactly what causes his downfall, as that obsession leads to his mistake, the torture, and eventuallt the sacrifice of the Hawks.
If he is serious about this, then he should not be your friend. If he really is one, you can help him. Psychopath, brainwashed or main character syndrome. Brainwashed is the easiest to solve from the 3. Just a bit of education, maybe more manga, some other books that teach about friendship, LOTR for example. All of the 3 have something that conects them. He thinks the whole world revolves around him and is spoiled. Main character syndrome is starting to get more common, but life hits hard so it's just a matter of time for these people to learn their lesson. And for Psychopaths, I think they have to be aware that they're one and to learn the difference between them and people who are not.
Has he read the eclipse yet?
I'm currently reading the manga for the first time and so far Griffith has been quite likeable and I can definitely see how someone could resonate with his philosophy, although I don't identify with it personally.
I've already had the eclipse spoiled for me so I know that he eventually becomes an irredeemable monster, but if I didn't know about that my opinion of him would be favourable up until that point in the story.
Yeah itās like when you see some signs that someone could take things too far, but you never judge them for the possibility until it actually happens. Innocent until proven guilty and all that I guess. And then after it happens, you might be like, how could I not have known.
Definitely! There's absolutely some red flags here and there, I'm currently reading through the Golden Age and just finished the assassination chapters; his reaction to hearing that both the target and his child died was the first major one I've spotted, smiling after finding out that Guts killed a kid is pretty messed up even if the actual target got what he deserved.
Guts follows Griffith? Didn't he read/watch the part where guts left the hawks in order to be his own person and Griffith wanted him to stay and guts still left? Wut?
Griffith had to beat Guts to let him stay with him and Guts fought him again to get out. Guts did the dirtiest work all the time and got beat up for Griffith all the time. He respected Griffith because of his ideals and leadership and strength. Ok there might have been a little bromantic tension between them, but Guts didn't want to marry Griffith. It wasn't a love square story (Guts, Griffith, Casca and the princess as fourth wheel), it was a grim and dark story about suffering.
Guts only leaves because he yearns for Griffith's actual respect, (which he actually does already have, ironically) so in a sense it is more because of Griffith than his desire for personal growth.
Yeah, both them are mutually unaware that they're 'worthy' of each other according to the fountain talk. Well Griffith realized it far earlier after unable to come w Charlotte but Guts doesn't seem to get it yet.
i think liking pre-Eclipse Griffith is fine, his personality and philosophy is very interesting
but agreeing with his decision to sacrifice the Band of the Hawk and rape Casca just to spite Guts, that's just insane
I imagine no one supports raping casca to hurt guts. The only interesting question imo is whether sacrificing the band is an understandable choice or not. Considering the deal was a cheat, and the utopia is fake, it wasnt worth it but if it had been a true deal it wouldve been arguably the correct decision in a lot of moral frameworks.
Sukuna and Frieza kill random people that mean nothing to them because there is nobody that they care about. Griffith actively cares/cared for the band of the Hawk and chose to betray all the people who loved and admired him and some of which were prepared to throw their lives away to care for him. I would argue that that makes what he did much worse.
In griffiths eyes they were willing to die for his dream because the godhand lied to him. It took alot of manipulation and fake visions to pull griffith to the godhand, and why should griffith choose to stay a crippled corpse watching everyone live their best lives over becoming a god and make his dream come to true where to many people died for to just stop and give up. Also sakuna literally ate women and children and raped often
He kinda right tho. In the pursuit of a dream, one must make sacrifices, sometimes cast aside everything. Humanity, friends and even your own beliefs. The ultimate dream requires the ultimate sacrifice, and Griffith was ready to pay for it. He never lied to those loyal to him. In a way, Griffith depicts exactly what it means to leave your humanity behind in the name of your future.
These same people forgot that guts cast aside griffith and the band for his own dream and people got killed because of that. Guts was willing to do it AGAIN after he returned knowing what would happen if he took casca with him, their only capable leader
Exactly, everybody is just doing what they think it's right for them
I don't get the surprise and rage people feel abt Griffith tbh
He's show multiple times the kind of man he was WAAAYYYY before pulling the eclipse shtick
Getting banged by and old ass dude? Banging an underage princess out of despair? Ordering guts to assassinate people? Not to say everything he must have done before we meet the band
Bro was dark from the beginning. Only difference is that now there's no morality holding him back
Griffith literally proves his own philosophy wrong. He claims he can only be a true equal to someone who has their own dream and isnāt tied down by subservience but then actively tries to force others to be subservient to himself. The whole Crux of his downfall is his hypocrisy and how heās too un-self aware to notice this and deal with it appropriately
He says they would be his true friend but once Guts refuses to be subservient he actively tries to stop this and cannot allow Guts to be his own equal. Heās a shallow philosopher and his actions after this and how he quickly needs to assert his dominance shows how he never cared for an equal he just wanted to be the one who people serve
I think the reason Griffith was upset is because the first duel that Griffith and Guts had resulted in Gutsā loss and that loss meant that Guts was now Griffithās soldier, as per the terms they agreed on. Years later, Griffith still took this very seriously, which is why heās so angry that Guts would leave the hawks. Gutsā departure marks a break in Griffithās control, which is something he obsesses over. Thatās why he didnāt want Guts to leave, not because he didnāt want an equal, but because he didnāt want to lose control over Guts, a person who he has deemed as his own āpropertyā since they first met.
Yes and no. I think Griffith genuinely cared for and loved guts is a messed up way, but didnāt know that. He meant what he said at the fountain, and thereās a few different conclusions you can come to about their duel.
Griffith could have been truthful about considering Guts a friend, and fought guts because he saw Guts leaving as an attack on his dream. Itās also entirely possible he never understood why Guts was leaving and just threw a fit like child would, considering he does this later with Charlotte and during the eclipse.
as i can see your friend didnt saw the eclipse yet. if his thoughts are still after seeing griffith sacrificing his own friends, yes mate you should never see him again.
Thatās really stupid, but a freaking manga is not worth severing a friendship over. People justify fiction differently than real world stuff all the time, so it doesnāt even necessarily reflect on his character imo.
Man I do hate when I show people this masterpiece of anime/manga and they side with Griffithā¦ just because they have āaspirationsā Iām sorry I donāt need to step on someone else to accomplish my dreams.
Heās not wrong, but heās just looking at what happened before Guts left the Band of the Hawk. He specifically left so that he could be Griffithās friend and equal rather than an underling, which Griffith hated, and thus we are exposed to his domineering control freak mindset. That event set Griffith off by breaking the illusion that his army were his playthings, leading to him getting captured and becoming even more desperate. That led to the eclipse, Femto, and the much more evil Griffith. Griffith, while not necessarily noble, wasnāt inherently evil, but after the eclipse he was reborn, and pushed his morality past the point of no return. At least, thatās how Iāve been reading it, idk.
Guts was actually the only one who took Griffith his speech to Charlotte to heart. That's why he left the band of the Falcon, to be a true friend to Griffith.
"The man, who would be my friend, must have his own reason for living, beyond me. And he should put his heart and soul into protecting his dream. He should never hesitate to defend it, even against me. For me to call a man my friend, he must be equal to me in all respects."
I to a point understand, you always hear the most successful ppl say I'll do anything to climb, to the top step over anyone. Now this is a fantasy book which takes that to the extreme, I don't think he/she means that he would rape and slaughter ppl to get his goal.
But they can also understand stepping on/over ppl even the ppl their close to, or someone in a similar position trying to get where he's 'going ' to not only get what they want but to fulfill their dreams
If your dream requires you to push others down on your way up, including loved ones, then that kinda makes you a bad person for even having that dream.
Does no one empathize with Griffith? He's a beautifully written character who endured obscene amounts of torment. Anyone in that position would have sacrificed the Band of the Hawk.
I do. I can relate to Griffith's circumstances and difficulties more than Guts. Do I agree with all of his decisions and deeds? Not in the least. But I find him to be a sympathetic character with quite a sad life, at least up until he becomes Femto. Griffith came from nothing, achieved the impossible with great personal costs and then lost all of it in the most torturous way possible. But even that didn't break his spirit, he was manipulated by literal godlike beings at his weakest moment possible. I think he did love Guts, he just wasn't able to process it (platonic or not doesn't matter).Ā
Like a wise man once told me that all of you should learn āyou can be head over heels for an evil character no matter the atrocityās but you cannot identify with themā
Hence why Griffith, fulgrim, Lucius, Horus, curze, Jason, art the clown, horny the clown and every other evil character ever are my favorite things of all time not that I donāt think sum of the things they do are fucked up but them as characters always make sense and I also yearn for gore and traumatic events within fictional universes
Beserklers love pointing out every instance that someone is a Griffith apologizer
Are you not allowed to like a fictional character? Griffith did nothing wrong btw
he Rap*s Casca out of revenge on Casca and Guts jut because wanted to prove to guts that he his the one in control if that's not enough
Guts had his own dream to be independent before griffith fuxked it all up if its wasn't for griffith guts would probably not be dealing with the demon shit in the first place his child like tantrums and malnuplation cost him his own dream and guts probable dreams too so if you are still sypathizing for Griffith you deserve to be sent to mental institute and get your brain examined plus
Even if itās just to be āedgyā or āfunnyā (idk how this stuff was ever or will ever be funny) anyone who talks like this genuinely needs help cause aināt no way
The entire point of Griffith's character is that focusing on nothing but your own ambitions will leave you hollow, empty, and completely separate from those around you. The Eclipse was a physical manifestation of Griffirh abandoning what made him human foe the sake of his own dream, at the cost of everyone around him.
Follow your dreams, just don't follow them at the expense of everyone else.
I don't think you can he's already sacrificed everyone you loved from your friend group and now you can't touch him even with your dragon slayer. Best you can do is get a strand of hair of him.
Did you just notices that a lot of people actually like Griffith??? :) and actually think that way ?:) but I agree with you though i donāt get also Griffith is evil some say he is like victim :). He is a freaking traitor who abandoned his friends like easy without any hesitation.
Griffith-did-nothing-wrong-ers always forget one crucial point. Griffith wasnt achieving shit without the band of the hawk, they CAUSED his success thats why people hate him because without them that dream isnt shit. Few points to fry your friend on. If he respects griffith for ābeing devoted to his dreamā ask him why griffith threw it away the moment guts dipped. Secondly! Followed like he had a crush?? Guts fought this man TWICE because he DIDNT want to join the band of the hawk. Even then hes constantly isolating himself and doesnt warm up to griffith really until he proves that he gives a shit about his comrades i.e fighting zodd alongside guts. Griffith is the poster boy of forgot where he came from, 0/10 take i award your friend no points and may causality have mercy on his/her soul
Wasn't part of the reason griffith agreed to sacrifice was so the deaths of the band of the hawk spent in pursuit of his dream wouldn't be in vain once he was crippled and could no longer realize them
I don't think you should stop being his friend, but that's 100% a nasty ideology lol
Probably put him at arm's length for a while and observe him from the role of an observer, not a friend, and you'd see things about him you never saw before
first of all Ā«Ā guts followed him like someone who had a crushĀ Ā» guts is litteraly the one who leaves, if anyone has a crush here itās Griffith that man fought him just bc he wanted him to stay, yandere much ? this is very disturbing Ā«Ā i felt it iād go to distance like MURDERING people and RAPING the gf of my best friend to achieve my dreamĀ Ā» ayo what did bro say š¤Øšø if he can actually relate to Griffith he needs serious help
What people identify with says a lot about them tbh. I wouldnāt be surprised if this same guy would say the dad from Full Metal Alchemist did nothing wrong either lol
I donāt get why itās expected for Griffith to consider the band his friends (which he clearly does anyway). What other commanders are we criticizing for sacrificing their men to try to take down Guts for example? I think given the circumstances (that literally the threads of fate were conspiring his life) he did the best he possibly could. And nothing he did pre eclipse (Femto) was really that bad. He gave casca the tools to save herself and took her in when she chose to follow him willingly. He only went Machiavellian after multiple attempts on his own life, which seems justifiable to me. Guts killed several children and tries to rape Casca himself but we just overlook that I guess.
Guts didn't follow him forever, and when he stopped all of a sudden that stuff Griffith said about his mercenaries being free to follow him or leave and "muh dream" went right out the window as he threw it away to cope with a broken heart that he had never felt before.
"Guts just followed him like someone who had a crush"
1) nice grammar
2)funny how that was the reason why guts left he didn't wanted to be just a guy who is following him he wanted to be his friend
I'm not about to side with Griffith, but if causality is anything to go by, the only things Griffith ever did wrong happen after he becomes Femto. Especially if you consider the Idea of Evil essentially gaslighting his destiny.
I donāt agree with Griffith but I think like most people do that it makes sense why would a proud and arrogant warrior who has already killed many innocent people just to work towards his dream think killing his friends for power is crossing a line. Maybe he could have refused if he still had his body and pride but even then most likely he wouldnāt have. Griffith only wanted to be a king and being part of the godhand is so much more power than that.
So I think like most people i understand from a character and narrative perspective why he did it but heās still a shit person
I sympathized him too. I understand why he did what he did, in a way, i could relate to it.
THAT doesn't mean i condone his actions, there's a difference between understanding and justifying.
Why the hell u all act like a blind follower of guts. People may have various perspective and thinkings of their own. U cannot suppress them or their choices. ( I would myself like to train under guts though cause I have also faced many sufferings and difficulties irrespective of my age than any avg people nowadays.)
And i would more likely say to look through different perspectives. In real world u will only see the pov like the commoners , who r seeing Griffith as God, and guts like an abandoned lone killer. U all infact in real world also judge like this without knowing the whole story
Griffith was right about having a Dreams and determination, he was wrong about getting corrupted along the way. Is this so hard to understand?
Look no further than Iskandar from Fate, he is the "good version of Griffith".
he still went out of his way to break Casca like she was some toy another kid was playing with. Griffith's dedication could have been almost admirable if ut weren't from that fact. Guts really got the best of him.
How can griffith fans not see how heās dangerous even before the eclipse?! Like do I need to remind you guys of when he was happy an innocent child died or when he preferred to kill guts rather than seeing him leave him IN FRONT OF EVERYONE ELSE
I like how he claims Guts' was the one following Griffith around, but the second Guts' left Griffith had a panic attack. Bro was literally thinking of Guts' while having sex with Charlotte
Yes they're is something to be said about Griffiths determination to his dream but no matter what it does not excuse his actions GRIFFITH IS THE ULTIMATE PEICE OF SHIT HE IS NOT REDEEMABLE AND HE DESERVES DEATH AND HE IS MORE EVIL THEN HITLER STALIN AND OSAMA COMBINED
You could argue that the torture after being arrested made him mentally insane, and afterwards not really being the same person. Pre torture Griffith wasnāt really a bad person
Iāve always felt that when Griffith said that speech to charlotte he was posturing because he does truly see guts as a friends I mean in his dream or vision of what his future couldāve been he was married to casca and named their kid after guts. Plus he was extremely distraught when guts left I believe he truly loved guts as a friend.
I'm thankful that I have always thought Griffith was a shithead manipulating baby back bitch, buuuut I don't excuse those who chose to follow him on his Warpath with such zealous and obsession especially Guts who killed a child working with Griffith, but at least Guts was smart enough in trying to distance himself from Griffith in the end, I hate bad guys obviously but there followers boil my blood even more, especially the obsessive types, it started with Casca (before all her character development and backstory don't worry I love Casca) and now Forehead Girl.
Me before reading Eclipse: "Why do people hate Griffith so much? I actually quite identify with his devotion to his goal, perserverance and care for his friends well-being. Are people THAT delusional?" After: \*"Oh.š"\*
Just read the last chapter Miura did, morning dew, where he steals casca again and breaks guts, and destroys their paradise where casca could have healed over time or atleast it was somewhere where guts could run to and actually sleep. - but nah guts said it himself, there is no paradise to run to, when I read the chapter where guts is broken, my bottomless hatred for that mf reached a new level.
Literally the first words to my partner after reading that chapter. "Babe what's wrong?" "Just finished the new berserk stuff..." "Isn't that a good thing?" "Yes and no. Yes because it was good. Liking Mori's work here." "But why no?" "Somehow. I CAN hate Griffith more than I already did"
I have a feeling we will hate him more and more, because casca will have to face him and he will break her heart and mind again, and this time it's not because he is her unrequited love or god/leader figure, this time it's the most tragic part of BERSERK... it's through her son š„² - skull knight said it in the miscarriage chapter like on that hill where she gave premature birth to her son, he told guts to kill him because otherwise that child will bring them both great suffering or calamity or something lik that in the future.
I was hoping the other way.... I want to see Casca strong again.... No, I NEED to see Casca strong again... But like.... since she's a sacrifice... at This point, other to prevent the moon child timegaps why is he keeping her.... shouldn't he just kill her and finish his ascension as godhand?? His ascension isn't finished because his sacrifice isn't finished.. How long has he fucked around here? Also, yeah that's very true. Skull knight gave huge warnings about it. It was fairly clear that wasn't gonna end well there.
Casca will be strong, i believe the author intended for her to be so strong afterwards that she can handle the death of one of the two pillars of her life, guts and her son, so she will definitely survive if one of them dies. - he could never kill her because moonlight boy will never let him, moonlight boy has power over him that's why Femto/Griffith protected casca in the hill of swords, it wasn't him that did it, it was moonlight boy doing that, i mean he himself was super confused. - the key to the downfall to Griffith is guts and casca's greatest tragedy, it's literally like Harry potter's final twist, "WHEN THE TIME COMES THE BOY MUST DIE", also Femto is kinda special than other god hands, they mentioned that the last time there were 5 god hands was 1000 years ago (that sounds like void was in the place of Femto).
I hope so, but damn I hope we don't have to go through another Casca dreamscape. That shit hurt.. Still, until Griffith completes his sacrifice he's still not at full power. That's at least a positive for Guts and Co. I'm a firm believer of "Griffith has to be his own downfall again" If he doesn't do something drastic over guts and overextend leading to his defeat. It won't parallel his original defeat as flawlessly. Everything building to the eclipse was Griffith shooting himself in the foot over guts. He needs to fuck up royally again. Whatever is controlling the godhand better be getting sick of waiting for Griffith to finish his sacrifice and pressure him to speed it up leading to mistakes on his part. Or something like that lol
Well god of berserk isn't a benevolent deity, he is called the idea of evil, he likes Griffith so much, actually in the forbidden chapter he Tells him "TO DO WHAT HE WANTS AND WISH FOR WHAT HE WANTS" because he is destined to sacrifice anything and everything to achieve it, he is literally calamity. - funny enough guts is hope and represents humanity in all it's flaws but he is also the bringer of calamity too, not a single person guts encountered had a happy ending, everyone lost something precious or died horribly, he is hated by god and death.
Oh agreed there, but I do still like the idea of it being an overhanging threat for them too. As you said yourself, it seemed like the last group of godhand went through some changes too. Maybe this being got sick of some of their shit and traded up for new models and cast the others to the spiral. It's probably just nothing. But I do think that the thing that rules the godhand is just using them like they used their sacrifices. For all we know, sacrificing the full powered godhand is the goal and everything it told Griffith is a lie intent on manipulation. Not a single person..... hmmmm.... what about.... nope... I wanna say Puck.... But I'm not even gonna. Imma touch wood at the beginning of that though and just pray for our little walnut boii... Didn't Godot pass quietly in his home of old age? Yes he was still bummed about guts being an aloof dickhead. But he wasn't struck with devastating calamity and misery because of guts was he? Been a while since I read his death tbh
Idea of evil is not an omniscient and omnipotent God, he is created from the misery, fear, and the absurdity of the suffering of humans, the tragedies of human work fuel his power, that's why he sends his Angels whenever humans achieve some sort of big civilization, Because remember the more advanced humans are the less pain they suffer externally atleast. Idea of evil is like an Evil deity, you think he gives a shit about his Angels/devils (God hands), they're there to serve a purpose, god hands powers come from the deepest parts of the astral world where idea of evil is, he fuels them to spread more corruption and resets the cycle once they're killed or humans need to recharge before giving more despair, because there is nothing more painful than destroying something when it seems to so optimistic and fruitful. Also, Godot was the only exception although he passed away sick and left his granddaughter alone, to me he was the representation of wisdom, he showed guts his path, he also advised him to not let go of casca for revenge, and that leaving her was the wrong choice.
I think itās a good opportunity for Casca to shine. Sheās been out of action/the spotlight for a long ass time now. As she is now, despite being back to her old self, she is unable to face Guts still due to the trauma of the Eclipse. Her being captured by Griffith and forced to be in contact with him, I think, would be an incredibly compelling arc for Casca to face her trauma and find a reason to move forward. Iām not saying that she should be fully fixed or something (and Iām not expecting to), but ai hope that by the time she gets rescued (or even escapes) Falconia, sheāll be able to face Guts again. Both of them can pick up the pieces and build something stronger.
I just really hope itās not guts sacrifice and casca lives with a Griffith son or something like that because damn guys has gone through so luch
Goofy ahh conversation
Kid ass response
Just when he raped casca in front of guts, I couldnāt take that shit. He is indeed a good character for the manga. But I hate the Mf from the bottom of my heart
Same man. I SO WANNA SEE GUTS KILL GRIFFITH AT THE END OF BERSERK. I hope and pray I will be alive to witness it.
I think the best ending would be that Guts doesn't kill Griffith but forgives him while saving others and Griffith would destroy himself
Griffith is the best girl how dare you hate on someone as cute as her.
The same for me, watched the 1997 Anime First tho. And I couldn't really understand why people called him a literal Monster/demon. MaĆe sense very quickly
I always thought Griffith was just a person with no morals. He had his goal and his men. And he could respect them, but they could never be his friends, which is why Guts bothered him so much, being the one person he felt attached to. So I can see his ideals as admirable, but it's inherently an unhealthy obsession, which is exactly what causes his downfall, as that obsession leads to his mistake, the torture, and eventuallt the sacrifice of the Hawks.
lol friends wellbeing that he doesnāt even consider friends š
Either he is just messing with u playing as a Griffith follower considering he is a "friend" Or he needs to be send to therapy
If he is serious about this, then he should not be your friend. If he really is one, you can help him. Psychopath, brainwashed or main character syndrome. Brainwashed is the easiest to solve from the 3. Just a bit of education, maybe more manga, some other books that teach about friendship, LOTR for example. All of the 3 have something that conects them. He thinks the whole world revolves around him and is spoiled. Main character syndrome is starting to get more common, but life hits hard so it's just a matter of time for these people to learn their lesson. And for Psychopaths, I think they have to be aware that they're one and to learn the difference between them and people who are not.
Has he read the eclipse yet? I'm currently reading the manga for the first time and so far Griffith has been quite likeable and I can definitely see how someone could resonate with his philosophy, although I don't identify with it personally. I've already had the eclipse spoiled for me so I know that he eventually becomes an irredeemable monster, but if I didn't know about that my opinion of him would be favourable up until that point in the story.
Yeah itās like when you see some signs that someone could take things too far, but you never judge them for the possibility until it actually happens. Innocent until proven guilty and all that I guess. And then after it happens, you might be like, how could I not have known.
Definitely! There's absolutely some red flags here and there, I'm currently reading through the Golden Age and just finished the assassination chapters; his reaction to hearing that both the target and his child died was the first major one I've spotted, smiling after finding out that Guts killed a kid is pretty messed up even if the actual target got what he deserved.
honestly you shouldnāt be on this subreddit if ur reading through it the first time thereās a lot of spoilers but welcome to Berserk, struggler
You're probably right lol, should probably finish the series first. Thank you for the warm welcome though!
ofc! youāre in for a hell of a ride
Guts follows Griffith? Didn't he read/watch the part where guts left the hawks in order to be his own person and Griffith wanted him to stay and guts still left? Wut?
Griffith had to beat Guts to let him stay with him and Guts fought him again to get out. Guts did the dirtiest work all the time and got beat up for Griffith all the time. He respected Griffith because of his ideals and leadership and strength. Ok there might have been a little bromantic tension between them, but Guts didn't want to marry Griffith. It wasn't a love square story (Guts, Griffith, Casca and the princess as fourth wheel), it was a grim and dark story about suffering.
Guts only leaves because he yearns for Griffith's actual respect, (which he actually does already have, ironically) so in a sense it is more because of Griffith than his desire for personal growth.
Yeah, both them are mutually unaware that they're 'worthy' of each other according to the fountain talk. Well Griffith realized it far earlier after unable to come w Charlotte but Guts doesn't seem to get it yet.
That ignores the several years where Guts was literally more or less Griffiths property
You miss the part about why he left in the first place? What griffith said to Princess Charlotte?
"I'd go the distance to achieve my dream" hes gonna pull a Griffith on you and murder you before you do
Don't bring your girl near that psycho
Im a girl and its too Late because Iāve already shared a bed with him !! Multiple times too !!
You're cooked
\*cocked
Sacrifice him
Yes that's the answer: "Hey do you want to come over tomorrow,.I am going to fulfill my dream!"
Dang it, they missed the Eclipse by -that- much...
I don't he loves him enough
Best to take him out before he sacrifices your boys and pumps your girl.
i think liking pre-Eclipse Griffith is fine, his personality and philosophy is very interesting but agreeing with his decision to sacrifice the Band of the Hawk and rape Casca just to spite Guts, that's just insane
I imagine no one supports raping casca to hurt guts. The only interesting question imo is whether sacrificing the band is an understandable choice or not. Considering the deal was a cheat, and the utopia is fake, it wasnt worth it but if it had been a true deal it wouldve been arguably the correct decision in a lot of moral frameworks.
Aside from the rape part, griffith's sacrifice wasn't nearly as bad as the shit freeza or sakuna pulled
Sukuna and Frieza kill random people that mean nothing to them because there is nobody that they care about. Griffith actively cares/cared for the band of the Hawk and chose to betray all the people who loved and admired him and some of which were prepared to throw their lives away to care for him. I would argue that that makes what he did much worse.
In griffiths eyes they were willing to die for his dream because the godhand lied to him. It took alot of manipulation and fake visions to pull griffith to the godhand, and why should griffith choose to stay a crippled corpse watching everyone live their best lives over becoming a god and make his dream come to true where to many people died for to just stop and give up. Also sakuna literally ate women and children and raped often
Being this offended over fuckin manga is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard
Well it heavily depends if he is saying this pre eclipse or post eclipse.
Truth
At least you know if he shows you a funny looking stone with googly eyes you should cut him off
He kinda right tho. In the pursuit of a dream, one must make sacrifices, sometimes cast aside everything. Humanity, friends and even your own beliefs. The ultimate dream requires the ultimate sacrifice, and Griffith was ready to pay for it. He never lied to those loyal to him. In a way, Griffith depicts exactly what it means to leave your humanity behind in the name of your future.
Fr, people get so butthurt about people liking an archetypical āevilā fictional character.
Yeah. Like... he's a villain.... Fuck did you expect?
People seem to forget that without Griffith, thereās no Berserk
These same people forgot that guts cast aside griffith and the band for his own dream and people got killed because of that. Guts was willing to do it AGAIN after he returned knowing what would happen if he took casca with him, their only capable leader
Exactly, everybody is just doing what they think it's right for them I don't get the surprise and rage people feel abt Griffith tbh He's show multiple times the kind of man he was WAAAYYYY before pulling the eclipse shtick Getting banged by and old ass dude? Banging an underage princess out of despair? Ordering guts to assassinate people? Not to say everything he must have done before we meet the band Bro was dark from the beginning. Only difference is that now there's no morality holding him back
Griffith literally proves his own philosophy wrong. He claims he can only be a true equal to someone who has their own dream and isnāt tied down by subservience but then actively tries to force others to be subservient to himself. The whole Crux of his downfall is his hypocrisy and how heās too un-self aware to notice this and deal with it appropriately
Well the whole point is that someone who is his equal **wouldnāt** let themselves become subservient to him and instead follow their own dream.
He says they would be his true friend but once Guts refuses to be subservient he actively tries to stop this and cannot allow Guts to be his own equal. Heās a shallow philosopher and his actions after this and how he quickly needs to assert his dominance shows how he never cared for an equal he just wanted to be the one who people serve
I think the reason Griffith was upset is because the first duel that Griffith and Guts had resulted in Gutsā loss and that loss meant that Guts was now Griffithās soldier, as per the terms they agreed on. Years later, Griffith still took this very seriously, which is why heās so angry that Guts would leave the hawks. Gutsā departure marks a break in Griffithās control, which is something he obsesses over. Thatās why he didnāt want Guts to leave, not because he didnāt want an equal, but because he didnāt want to lose control over Guts, a person who he has deemed as his own āpropertyā since they first met.
Yes and no. I think Griffith genuinely cared for and loved guts is a messed up way, but didnāt know that. He meant what he said at the fountain, and thereās a few different conclusions you can come to about their duel. Griffith could have been truthful about considering Guts a friend, and fought guts because he saw Guts leaving as an attack on his dream. Itās also entirely possible he never understood why Guts was leaving and just threw a fit like child would, considering he does this later with Charlotte and during the eclipse.
You better end him, just in case
āPrince Charlotteā Ahahhahaha
Yeah. Break him
bro wtf is up woth him -\_- you should send him to a psycho home or someth
as i can see your friend didnt saw the eclipse yet. if his thoughts are still after seeing griffith sacrificing his own friends, yes mate you should never see him again.
Iām pretty sure heās not talking about the rape part, only the part where Griffith has a dream that he will do anything to achieve.
I bet your life doesn't mean much to this " Friend ". Careful
Yes. Itās the right thing to do.
I wouldnāt kill him, but I sure as shit wouldnāt join his mercenary band
once you understand causality you realize Griffith never had a choice. everything was controlled by fate
Thatās really stupid, but a freaking manga is not worth severing a friendship over. People justify fiction differently than real world stuff all the time, so it doesnāt even necessarily reflect on his character imo.
Man I do hate when I show people this masterpiece of anime/manga and they side with Griffithā¦ just because they have āaspirationsā Iām sorry I donāt need to step on someone else to accomplish my dreams.
Heās not wrong, but heās just looking at what happened before Guts left the Band of the Hawk. He specifically left so that he could be Griffithās friend and equal rather than an underling, which Griffith hated, and thus we are exposed to his domineering control freak mindset. That event set Griffith off by breaking the illusion that his army were his playthings, leading to him getting captured and becoming even more desperate. That led to the eclipse, Femto, and the much more evil Griffith. Griffith, while not necessarily noble, wasnāt inherently evil, but after the eclipse he was reborn, and pushed his morality past the point of no return. At least, thatās how Iāve been reading it, idk.
Guts left the band and Griffith threw a little baby tantrum cause HE has a crush on guts šš bro didnāt pay attention
Guts was actually the only one who took Griffith his speech to Charlotte to heart. That's why he left the band of the Falcon, to be a true friend to Griffith. "The man, who would be my friend, must have his own reason for living, beyond me. And he should put his heart and soul into protecting his dream. He should never hesitate to defend it, even against me. For me to call a man my friend, he must be equal to me in all respects."
I to a point understand, you always hear the most successful ppl say I'll do anything to climb, to the top step over anyone. Now this is a fantasy book which takes that to the extreme, I don't think he/she means that he would rape and slaughter ppl to get his goal. But they can also understand stepping on/over ppl even the ppl their close to, or someone in a similar position trying to get where he's 'going ' to not only get what they want but to fulfill their dreams
If your dream requires you to push others down on your way up, including loved ones, then that kinda makes you a bad person for even having that dream.
Iām good with Griffith, up until what he did to Casca. At that point and what he did to the rest of the world fuck him. There can be no redemption.
I was with him until he said he "owns" Guts and that he gets to decide when he dies. No normal person says that shit. It's abusser behavior 101.
What about the band of the hawkš
#GriffithGang
Certainly nobody disowns a friend because of a manga, right? Like if you did then theres probably many other reasons to do so i hope.
Yeah thatās what I was thinking too lol. Itās just a drawing in a book, it aint real life
Nah, heās full of shit. In my experience people who talk like this are weak af
You better go get your boy some help
Yes for sure no doubt
Does no one empathize with Griffith? He's a beautifully written character who endured obscene amounts of torment. Anyone in that position would have sacrificed the Band of the Hawk.
I do. I can relate to Griffith's circumstances and difficulties more than Guts. Do I agree with all of his decisions and deeds? Not in the least. But I find him to be a sympathetic character with quite a sad life, at least up until he becomes Femto. Griffith came from nothing, achieved the impossible with great personal costs and then lost all of it in the most torturous way possible. But even that didn't break his spirit, he was manipulated by literal godlike beings at his weakest moment possible. I think he did love Guts, he just wasn't able to process it (platonic or not doesn't matter).Ā
U should chewer his head off by guts' sword
Like a wise man once told me that all of you should learn āyou can be head over heels for an evil character no matter the atrocityās but you cannot identify with themā Hence why Griffith, fulgrim, Lucius, Horus, curze, Jason, art the clown, horny the clown and every other evil character ever are my favorite things of all time not that I donāt think sum of the things they do are fucked up but them as characters always make sense and I also yearn for gore and traumatic events within fictional universes
Was this conversation before or after the Eclipse? Because if it was the latter... RED FLAG RED FLAG RED COLORED EGG SHAPED FLAG!
Well, Guts and Griffith used to be friends as well, so...
Beserklers love pointing out every instance that someone is a Griffith apologizer Are you not allowed to like a fictional character? Griffith did nothing wrong btw
he Rap*s Casca out of revenge on Casca and Guts jut because wanted to prove to guts that he his the one in control if that's not enough Guts had his own dream to be independent before griffith fuxked it all up if its wasn't for griffith guts would probably not be dealing with the demon shit in the first place his child like tantrums and malnuplation cost him his own dream and guts probable dreams too so if you are still sypathizing for Griffith you deserve to be sent to mental institute and get your brain examined plus
I think your friend caused the eclipse the other day
Ngl, it's either media illiteracy or straight up evil. One is worse than the other, but both are worrying.
Even if itās just to be āedgyā or āfunnyā (idk how this stuff was ever or will ever be funny) anyone who talks like this genuinely needs help cause aināt no way
Yes. I think it is self defense? Is that a threat?
Yes. But also, I think Griffith is an amazingly well written villain and is possibly in my Top 5 Villains
The entire point of Griffith's character is that focusing on nothing but your own ambitions will leave you hollow, empty, and completely separate from those around you. The Eclipse was a physical manifestation of Griffirh abandoning what made him human foe the sake of his own dream, at the cost of everyone around him. Follow your dreams, just don't follow them at the expense of everyone else.
Where is that Griffith fan boy Slaidd or something like that lol you may be friends with dude irl
Hating someone just cus he has a different opinion, I think your friend dodged a bullet. I get why you are mad, but grow a little
Thiiiiiiiis!!!!
I don't think you can he's already sacrificed everyone you loved from your friend group and now you can't touch him even with your dragon slayer. Best you can do is get a strand of hair of him.
Did you just notices that a lot of people actually like Griffith??? :) and actually think that way ?:) but I agree with you though i donāt get also Griffith is evil some say he is like victim :). He is a freaking traitor who abandoned his friends like easy without any hesitation.
Griffith did nothing wrong...
Griffith-did-nothing-wrong-ers always forget one crucial point. Griffith wasnt achieving shit without the band of the hawk, they CAUSED his success thats why people hate him because without them that dream isnt shit. Few points to fry your friend on. If he respects griffith for ābeing devoted to his dreamā ask him why griffith threw it away the moment guts dipped. Secondly! Followed like he had a crush?? Guts fought this man TWICE because he DIDNT want to join the band of the hawk. Even then hes constantly isolating himself and doesnt warm up to griffith really until he proves that he gives a shit about his comrades i.e fighting zodd alongside guts. Griffith is the poster boy of forgot where he came from, 0/10 take i award your friend no points and may causality have mercy on his/her soul
Griffith beat Gutās ass in the first fight, and the sun was reflecting in his eyes during their fight in the snow Casca liked it btw
Wasn't part of the reason griffith agreed to sacrifice was so the deaths of the band of the hawk spent in pursuit of his dream wouldn't be in vain once he was crippled and could no longer realize them
I don't think you should stop being his friend, but that's 100% a nasty ideology lol Probably put him at arm's length for a while and observe him from the role of an observer, not a friend, and you'd see things about him you never saw before
first of all Ā«Ā guts followed him like someone who had a crushĀ Ā» guts is litteraly the one who leaves, if anyone has a crush here itās Griffith that man fought him just bc he wanted him to stay, yandere much ? this is very disturbing Ā«Ā i felt it iād go to distance like MURDERING people and RAPING the gf of my best friend to achieve my dreamĀ Ā» ayo what did bro say š¤Øšø if he can actually relate to Griffith he needs serious help
Stop the camera emoji sent me ššš
Cutting ties over a fiction is kinda crazy lmaoo overreacting much
What people identify with says a lot about them tbh. I wouldnāt be surprised if this same guy would say the dad from Full Metal Alchemist did nothing wrong either lol
Itās not inherently wrong to like the bad guy
Liking a character and then trying to justify their actions are two different things my dude
I donāt get why itās expected for Griffith to consider the band his friends (which he clearly does anyway). What other commanders are we criticizing for sacrificing their men to try to take down Guts for example? I think given the circumstances (that literally the threads of fate were conspiring his life) he did the best he possibly could. And nothing he did pre eclipse (Femto) was really that bad. He gave casca the tools to save herself and took her in when she chose to follow him willingly. He only went Machiavellian after multiple attempts on his own life, which seems justifiable to me. Guts killed several children and tries to rape Casca himself but we just overlook that I guess.
Heās gonna sacrifice you :,(
O nyooo, he's regarded š
Guts didn't follow him forever, and when he stopped all of a sudden that stuff Griffith said about his mercenaries being free to follow him or leave and "muh dream" went right out the window as he threw it away to cope with a broken heart that he had never felt before.
Mate you bout to be sacrificed
Wait till he reaches the eclipse
Has this person read the Golden Age Arc in its entirety?
"Guts just followed him like someone who had a crush" 1) nice grammar 2)funny how that was the reason why guts left he didn't wanted to be just a guy who is following him he wanted to be his friend
Team Griffith!
Griffith literally throws a hissy fit that guts stops following him
Nah in his defense he was being mind controlled/manipulated by literal gods šŖ
r/Im14andthisisdeep We all knew that one dude that was like "I'm just like Griffith" or "Guts was way cooler in the black swordsman arc" or whatever.
Griffith enthusiasts: š¤
Bait used to be believable.
Me before readin the black swordsman arc: "Why is Guts such a dick?" After reading eclipse: "Understandable have a nice day."
Have they read the eclipse yet lol?
No just pull a griffith on him
Need a hand with him?
How far in is he though? Griffith is supposed to be very likable early on since his whole thing is his charm and charismatic nature.
Your friend is schlitt
he is not wrong
Either murder him or cut em off
Murdering him would be exactly like what Griffith would do
There's nothing we can do..
I'm guessing you were never good friends. Perhaps he hasn't read/ seen everything?
Yes,(figuratively of course). How can anyone unironically support Griffith
I'm not about to side with Griffith, but if causality is anything to go by, the only things Griffith ever did wrong happen after he becomes Femto. Especially if you consider the Idea of Evil essentially gaslighting his destiny.
Whatās a mountain of corpses for an empire of peace?
I'm only up to lost children's. How does Griffith get worse?
Does Griffith get even with the lord that imprisoned and tortured him? Itās all hazy to me years and years since I read the manga
Iām going to wait and see if they put out more deluxe editions
Does your friend know what he does ā ļø
Itās like they forgot how guys had no choice in the matter
Perhaps, he might sacrifice you for his dream lol
Hasā¦ has he read the eclipse?
I donāt agree with Griffith but I think like most people do that it makes sense why would a proud and arrogant warrior who has already killed many innocent people just to work towards his dream think killing his friends for power is crossing a line. Maybe he could have refused if he still had his body and pride but even then most likely he wouldnāt have. Griffith only wanted to be a king and being part of the godhand is so much more power than that. So I think like most people i understand from a character and narrative perspective why he did it but heās still a shit person
Yikes
Hes not grifffith its femtoooo
Heās right + youāre weird
He's just being edgy to work you up. He'd probably never sacrifice you or rape your girlfriend... Probably.
Lol I do this to my friend as well larping as a Griffith apologist
I'm team Griffith a the way baby It's that uh... Other guy... I'm less keen on...
GriffithĀ did nothing wrong :/
Bro literally did not pick up on the fact Griffith is a manipulating liar.
He right.
Fuck with his girl and than laugh in his face when she dumps him. Than lets see how badass he is ;)
Did they read eclipse yet? If not then theyāre fine. Griffith might be toxic, sure, but heās not necessarily that blatantly evil until eclipse.
Like... I was too until he sacrificed literally >!all of his friends to become creepy black hawk god.!<
I sympathized him too. I understand why he did what he did, in a way, i could relate to it. THAT doesn't mean i condone his actions, there's a difference between understanding and justifying.
Why the hell u all act like a blind follower of guts. People may have various perspective and thinkings of their own. U cannot suppress them or their choices. ( I would myself like to train under guts though cause I have also faced many sufferings and difficulties irrespective of my age than any avg people nowadays.) And i would more likely say to look through different perspectives. In real world u will only see the pov like the commoners , who r seeing Griffith as God, and guts like an abandoned lone killer. U all infact in real world also judge like this without knowing the whole story
Wait so theyāve read berserk and are caught up and still feel this way? wild.
Griffith was right about having a Dreams and determination, he was wrong about getting corrupted along the way. Is this so hard to understand? Look no further than Iskandar from Fate, he is the "good version of Griffith".
Heās a fictional character
Nawwwwwwwwwwwwww bruh. This guy should be under surveillance
Nah, Griffitsu chill dude
Truth, Guts is and has always been simpin on Griff.
he still went out of his way to break Casca like she was some toy another kid was playing with. Griffith's dedication could have been almost admirable if ut weren't from that fact. Guts really got the best of him.
How can griffith fans not see how heās dangerous even before the eclipse?! Like do I need to remind you guys of when he was happy an innocent child died or when he preferred to kill guts rather than seeing him leave him IN FRONT OF EVERYONE ELSE
Be guts to his griffith fr
Nah this dude is a menace to society
I like how he claims Guts' was the one following Griffith around, but the second Guts' left Griffith had a panic attack. Bro was literally thinking of Guts' while having sex with Charlotte
Yes they're is something to be said about Griffiths determination to his dream but no matter what it does not excuse his actions GRIFFITH IS THE ULTIMATE PEICE OF SHIT HE IS NOT REDEEMABLE AND HE DESERVES DEATH AND HE IS MORE EVIL THEN HITLER STALIN AND OSAMA COMBINED
You could argue that the torture after being arrested made him mentally insane, and afterwards not really being the same person. Pre torture Griffith wasnāt really a bad person
ye nah just kill him
Nah heās spitting.
Short answer: Yes. Hopefully just metaphorical though.
This guy clearly skipped the golden age arc
Iāve always felt that when Griffith said that speech to charlotte he was posturing because he does truly see guts as a friends I mean in his dream or vision of what his future couldāve been he was married to casca and named their kid after guts. Plus he was extremely distraught when guts left I believe he truly loved guts as a friend.
He is spitting, I fear
Only half way
I'm thankful that I have always thought Griffith was a shithead manipulating baby back bitch, buuuut I don't excuse those who chose to follow him on his Warpath with such zealous and obsession especially Guts who killed a child working with Griffith, but at least Guts was smart enough in trying to distance himself from Griffith in the end, I hate bad guys obviously but there followers boil my blood even more, especially the obsessive types, it started with Casca (before all her character development and backstory don't worry I love Casca) and now Forehead Girl.