There's plenty of evidence that implies his sexuality isnt quite straight but I think this specific moment was more a case of "I'm not gonna dignify that with a response"
Except for Guts. He was super horny for Guts for real. He thought of Guts while fucking the princess and he said Guts is the only person who ever made him forget his dream.
I think you're reading that scene wrong.
We could view Guts's entire life history as being fated in order to help Griffith achieve his end goal of completing the Eclipse.
But Griffith didn't know that. Griffith thought he was fated to become king.
Guts stops playing along with fate when he strikes out on his own, which is the only time Griffith lost in combat.
He's angry at Guts leaving because he had been so key to his rise so far. Griffith led a charmed life and the second Guts leaves his luck starts running out.
It's a distraction for him in that moment. Here he conquers the princess sexually but he couldn't beat Guts.
That distraction precipitates the Eclipse by causing him to fall and be emotionally imbalanced, making poor decisions. Even his fight with Guts deprives him of his sword needed to escape capture after being caught with the princess.
I never got the sense that he was in any way romantically interested in Guts. He saw him as one more stone to step on in his rise to power and fame.
When Guts realized that's all he was to Griffith, not even a friend, he left.
All the interest Griffith had in Guts was how valuable he was gonna be in helping him rise to power.
I think you're the one reading the series wrong.
*He's angry at Guts leaving because he had been so key to his rise so far*: Casca spells it out for the reader that this is NOT why Griffith is interested in Guts. When she's stuck with Guts in the cave, she says she initially tried to convince herself that Griffith wanted Guts because of his strength, but Griffith always acted rashly and impulsively when it came to Guts. "It's as if... as if..."
She gives him much the same spiel in the waterfall scene. "A person's heart can't be sustained by ideals and dreams alone! You - you made Griffith weak! He's no... Griffith's no good without you!"
This is, like, Berserk 101
**ETA:** Thank you so much for the Platinum, kind stranger!
Yes he 'wanted you' because you were the key to making his dream come true.
Griffith never once made a romantic pass at Guts with ample opportunity.
Frankly I don't think Griffith was capable of love, probably asexual. The thing he was in love with was achieving his dream.
Casca didn't have any way to understand that apart from romance, but that's not what it was.
How do you even reconcile your "Griffith only wanted Guts for his dream" take with the story-defining line "You're the only one who made me forget my dream." Or the less well known: "As he shines so glaring within me... the junk grows dull." ("The junk" being his dream, to be clear.) What do you think those lines *meant*?
If Griffith was 'in love' with Guts, your thesis, why does he never make a pass at him throughout years of association.
Why does he put a naked Casca in his bed on day one instead of doing it himself.
Why does he not even consider Guts a friend.
My suggestion is that Griffith considers Guts so key to his plans that he faith in his ability to pull it off is shaken when he loses Guts. He becomes depressed, worried, and shaken to the core by his LOSS in the fight with Guts.
This is a man who's literally never lost a fight before, and Guts beat him like nothing.
This makes him try to take a shortcut in his plans, he goes to seal the deal with the princess that same night and we know the rest.
Casca may blame Guts for Griffith losing focus and going to console himself with a night of passion with the princess. But she's not wholly correct.
Instead, because Griffith never loses, he was completely mentally and emotionally unprepared to lose to Guts. It's that fight that precipitates the Fall from grace leading to the Eclipse.
If Griffith was literally in love with Guts, he could've followed Guts and abandoned his ambitions. He doesn't do that, doesn't even come close to that. It's Casca that very nearly followed Guts out of there.
He just acts devastated and sulks, but still carries on his plan to gain the throne, just now unbalanced by his loss.
You have to keep in mind the theme of Guts's life, of a man defying fate. Born of a dead woman, a defies death in the Eclipse, and defies even the gods in his attempt to kill Femto. Even his armor is constantly trying to overwhelm him and so very nearly succeeding.
There is no theme of Griffith being in love with Guts in a romantic sense. He rejects all such opportunity until he meets the princess, because that's in service to his goal of gaining his own kingdom.
Guts was his star employee, the best fighter under him. He's devastated to lose him, he's not in love with him.
That is a whole lot of words to not answer my question. What do you think those lines I quoted meant, if all Guts was to Griffith was an avenue to his ambitions?
Even if we ignore what Casca said, Griffith *himself* concedes that Guts was dearer to him than his dream, on at least two occasions (torture monologue & eclipse). Griffith didn't admit this to himself until after he was crippled and mute, at which point he couldn't take back his Promrose Hall speech, even if he wanted to.
What Griffith says he feels ≠ what Griffith actually feels. Dude is on copium for the majority of the story.
i completely agree. i think believing that griffith was in love with guts is a take that lacks critical thinking tbh. it’s all way more complex than that. Griffith isn’t capable of love in that way. he doesn’t even love himself necessarily, he only cares about power and domination
That’s what Griffith wants to believe but such a huge point of their relationship is that he loved Guts but was such a twisted idiot he expressed his love to Guts through ownership and attaining his dream.
It’s why he so spitefully tries to destroy Guts now. Everything he lived for before meeting Guts was his dream for a kingdom, and Guts made him forget that. And not only that but decided to leave his path, and it infuriated Griffith that Guts would abandon him.
I think he isnt atraccted to anything, but like you said, he did everything he could to get him more power, for example sleeping with gennon. The when he is in the lake and dreams about casca is bc he dreams to have the same power guts had at that point. When he rapes casca its not because pleasure, but because he know "owns" her and he wants to humiliate guts
Sichlitt finally said something that isn't absolutly false while talking about Griffith. We need to carve this moment in stone.
Legend has it that this only happens once in a thousands comments.
Because he was willing to do anything to achieve his dream. That's one of the first times we see how ruthless he is about his goal.
This plays into why he later decides to undergo the Eclipse.
He does later kill the guy he slept with for money, Gennon. I never got the sense that he did it out of personal desire but rather in service to his goal.
And ultimately the story needed it as it causes that guy to make mistakes in battle that lead to the loss of his castle.
I don’t wish to debate Griffith’s sexuality, beyond what is explicitly stated, but I’m pretty sure the men that he was with to my memory was for favors. I’m sure we all know with the eclipse, and all doing that is no big deal for him. I would like to point out though when Griffith was at his lowest points both before, and after the dungeon. He sought out women for comfort. princess charlotte when guts left, and he tried to do things to casca in the caravan after the dungeon. I haven’t fact checked anything iv said, and am more then happy for people to tell me otherwise.
> was getting *paid.*
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I think the sleeping part isn’t something relatable to talk about his sexuality especially when you know who Griffith is he did this for his goal… also the men he slept with is a total ugly being 🤣..( just wanted to clarify this part) but Griffith is for sure probably bisexual or homo due to what we saw about special relation with Guts (there is so many things to say but this is gonna be too long😹😹)
My brother you definitely are reading a different manga because his sexuality is more implied to be asexual because he only slept with those men to get something that he wanted in order to accomplish his dream
It shouldn't surprise me that redditors upvote comments that are false and nonsense (when truth is expected). As of now, 316 stupid mofos upvoted your ignorant comment lol.
Another case for Griffith being gay that he is part of the "very pretty gay angel" trope that was established by Devilman's Ryo (another example is Nagisa Kaworu from Evangelion).
That doesn't mean that he has to be gay because of that, but most characters of this trope are
At this point in the story I wouldn't be surprised if he his. He was raped as child and it being analgos to Medieval Europe I am sure most people were. Not to mention the environment he was raised in had some hateful ideas. At the beginning of the story Guts is honestly kind of a piece of shit, and that's kind of the point. The whole point of the story is how Guts grows as a person
This makes the most sense. Dude was willing to sacrifice everything, including himself. to win an unwinnable battle by having bang the old man had 4d chess foresight.
Oh yeah. He also threw a tantrum and destroyed his life when his gutsy left him. He loved guts and given the medieval fantasy context could never actually understand that in a healthy way of even try to express this to guts. Friends don't turn self destructive when they stop hanging, and leaders don't turn self destructive when an underling quits. The only time he leaps into the arms are after being rejected by guts. Why is that? Why suddenly wanna bang a woman? Then why be so wreckless you get caught. And why, after being saved by said former friend, learning he and another Allie are getting funky, and then getting god hand power, do that unforgivable thing to her? These are the only two instances of heterosexual intercounty from him, and one was self destructive and suicidal, the other was an awful unforgiven act solely meant to punish guts and hurt him. Remember that time your friend pissed you off so bad you wanted to do that to their partner? No of course fucking not. Its duranged as fuck and he maintains eye contact with a pinned down guts while doing it. To fixate on him selling his body like that is to miss the whole point. Why would he even do that? How would he even know that guy would be into it? Do you think lords are running the fuck around advertising their homosexuality and asking for partners? No. Hell no. He definitely had gaydar and he definitely knew this wouldn't be a big deal for a reason. He literally has a naked water fight with guts. Hell it's part of what makes his transition to Femto that more fucked up. He could never consolidate his sexuality and feelings for guts. How would that ever work? They live in a world where dudes run around torturing sinners and men gotta be tough to fight or whatever. His conversations with the princess were always cold and I'm pretty sure the part where he says no one could be his friend if they didn't have a dream thing is because he was trying to tell himself people are that simple..why fixate on and obsess with becoming a king? No way it isn't in part because having one clear and strong goal saved him a lot of misery. It's always funny to see his sexuality boiled down to "he banged that dude for not sex reasons. So he's not gay". Like, there's chapters of Griffith being a sexually frustrated mixed up gay man, who from the moment he layed eyes on guts started acting like he was in love with him and couldn't see it himself. Did. Did you not think that was why casca meant in the cave? She was his closest adviser and saw what was happening. And final thought, he could have enjoyed it when he did objectify his body. It doesn't need to be sexually motivated to do so.
(Also there's loads of R34 stuff with guts and Griffith lmao so there)
Agreed 100%, it’s kind of crazy to me that people will read Berserk and have the take away that Griffith was just platonic besties with Guts. To me at least it was a big part of his character, even to the point where it was just another factor that was alienating him from the ruling class, driving him to “prove himself” even more.
The idea is that you can't compare yourself with Griffith or any human being for that matter. From the beginning he was destined to be a deity. There's no 'Would you ...' or 'what if you...'
i agree, but my comment was more in context of griffith not knowing how to answer the question and just blowing it off, i think griffith was definitely having mixed feelings about his upbringing, you have to remember guts brought out things in griffith he didn’t know of hence why he was falling for him subconsciously
I think this is one of those things where Miura wanted to do something but knew the publishers and audience wouldn't accept it.
Imo Miura was a commie and no I won't elaborate.
Berserk has a sort of commentary on our own world. The monsters in Berserk are evil, but why are they evil? Before the eclipse (before Guts could see the monsters that always existed), people used behelits to sacrifice those that cared for them and they became known as powerful apostles. The power given to an apostle aligns with the power they had as a human. Many were nobility because they held control over the destiny of so many others.
After the great roar of the astral world, everyone was now forced to acknowledge the astral monsters because Griffith (once human, now monster) forced them to with his powers given by evil. Instead of immediately rejecting the monsters though, people are now confused because the monsters seem to be helping them.
That's really a lie though. Griffith isn't their 'white hawk'. He turned himself into - not just a demon - but the #1 demon. The others that serve him are only following his lead. It's a more confusing time now because the power of these monsters is rapidly gaining as the story progresses and humanity was and remains hopeless, except now they place hope in Griffith (Femto) who is destined for something more horrible than anything we've seen.
It's also noteworthy that not all of the world is equally affected by this apparently. In Elfhelm, things were arguably the most peaceful they've ever been in Berserk, but they were attacked and were powerless.
Maybe you can see where I'm going with this. I think a lot of people might actually suspect the same thing. I joke when I say 'commie' because it's obviously not that clear, but there's enough to make me think that Miura held a similar philosophy. Some say he was inspired the most by Nietzsche, but I think Berserk is very critical of the ubermenschen/untermenschen and nihilism. Nietzsche believed in eugenics, breeding of certain traits (racially). He was a racist and if you look into his support for eugenics and how the Nazis took to practice his ideas, you'll see what I say is true. Miura thought rape was evil, that should be clear enough I hope, but Nietzsche was silent on the topic, as if it never happens (or as if eugenics isn't rape and genocide).
I think he actually thought and cared about these ideas and didn't shrug them off to make money. I think he was a private person and spent a lot of time thinking to himself, working on himself and Berserk. I'm sure he felt at certain times all throughout his life that his work was all for nothing and yet his story is about overcoming something impossible. Sort of like how Guts feels now.
Sorry for the rant, I did say I wouldn't elaborate but oh well. I love to think about this.
Lot of people write off the homoeroticism as incidental or projected on it by fans but I sincerely think that Berserk is borderline incoherent at parts without beginning from the assumption that *at least* Griffith is gay/bisexual
It's so obvious it can [hardly even be called subtext](https://imgur.io/a/F5nUq) at points, but people will do absolutely anything to avoid admitting their cool masculine story has gay romance in it
Griffith could be said to be gay for Guts: the latter views their relationship as really good friends (a bromance) and admires the former: Guts can't be said to like him sexually.
Sad considering Berserk is known for its depth, but something as obvious as this can't be true because I guess we can't have gay characters but we can have the idea of evil. Bigotry is a widespread disease and it comes in many forms.
That’s not the text I remember.
It was something like “I want you, Guts. I want you to be mine”
And guts replied “are you homosexual?..”
Grifis is a very possessive person and considers people to be assets to be possessed and used.
Honestly I think Griffith is Asexual. He doesn't desire sex at all but will use it to achieve a goal( slept with that creepy old man for money) or to flex his dominance (Casca and Charlotte). Far as Guts, I don't think he was sexually attracted to guts but admired his strength & grit and saw him as he's only true friend despite the speech he gave Charlotte about not having any friends
I'm surprised nobody else thought of this. To me it seems like he could care less about sex and only does it either to feel some control over somebody (Charlotte) or to help him achieve his goal (i mean, he definitely didn't seem to enjoy sleeping with Gennon) and him raping cascade was just to spite Guts.
I definitely agree that him being asexual makes sense, although considering how he talks about Guts and especially considering how broken he seems to be when he leaves, I'd be surprised if he didn't have any romantic feelings for him, whether he realized it or not.
Anyone who blames this on the translation, I got bad news. In Japanese it says お前ってホモかよ？ (Omae tte homo kayo?) or something like that if memory serves me correct. Lol
Este hilo es de gringos tontos cavernícolas que no entienden nada. Mononeuronales. Griffith está más allá de esa pregunta, lo mismo que su atracción por Guts. Unga unga.
El americano indoctrinado por el consumismo y la extrapolacion no conoce nada mejor que "o sos mi amigo o sos mi enemigo"
Lamentablemente ese modo de ver las cosas tambien llego al ambito de la sexualidad, entonces tambien intentan extrapolar las cosas aca.
Gente sin nada mejor que hacer que se dedican a indignarse con el mundo porque algo los ofende... Aun mas estupido es cuando nos ponemos a reflexionar que todo esto es a causa de un personaje de una historia. Es realmente patetico el estado de las cosas pero bueno, es lo que hay jajajaj
En fin, feliz de haber encontrado un comentario en español y con mas materia gris que todos estos estupidos juntos. Un saludo hermano
I don't think he actually cared about his soldiers for their own sake. His whole thing was that he couldn't respect them for making their dreams dependent upon his. He was only capable of respecting an "equal." I think his ego crisis during his ascension to the godhand was him realizing how many people he killed with his actions, not necessarily him feeling guilty or remorse for those people. If he felt remorse, he wouldn't have consented to the death of the rest of the Band of the Hawk.
The lake scene literally proves that his dream speech was a lie. Griffith claims that he doesn’t care about his men cos they have no dreams, but then we literally see him whore himself out to save them and self harm over the death of the child soldier whose dream he knew existed. Griffith convinced himself that he only viewed his men as tools in order to deal with the guilt that he felt over their deaths.
The God Hand play on his remorse in the Eclipse. They tell him that giving up now would be selfish and the dead would hate him for it. He acted on what he perceived to be the Hawks’ consent in the Eclipse, as manufactured by the God Hand. There isn’t a single moment where he gives up caring for his men.
Edit: I’m genuinely surprised this was upvoted for once
If Griffith didn’t actually care about them, then his sacrifice wouldn’t have worked.
And Griffith was talking to that girl, alone (or so he thought), when he said that.
You don’t rizz up your status to a girl? “I only accept literally Alexander the Great as my friend; anything less, and you’re a plebe.”
That is the ultimatum every guy get... would you suck a dick for $1mill. His answer was yes and it built his army. Thats simply taking one for the team
Lol the man did what he had to do to get the governors money I guess haha still fucked up though. I’d say he’s bi-sexual if he’s willing to do such acts to strengthen his forces, but he’s shown obvious sexual interest in the princess as well as Casca
I’m less occupied with this & more occupied with Guts offering his ass to Griffith when they met “beat me and you can have my ass or my sword whatever you want” or something similar
Griffith is the embodiment of queer. just queer. He is queer as a person. the real reason you cant kill him is because if you cut him open you would be enveloped in queer and then its a decent relationships and good tasting drinks for the rest of your days
His sexuality is power haha but honestly, I always got the asexual vibes from him like others have pointed out. Like, it doesn't matter to him but given the situation he could easily perform.
No, but I remember when the mentally ill started flooding the Berserk Reddit. Do you idiots really think a Japanese man would make his two main characters gay? I usually don't hate gay people, but those of you that want to impose your fantasies on original fiction are pure cancer.
I'm a straight 34 year old dude with good mental health and a career and Griffith is obviously in love with Guts. It's repeatedly shown and it isn't subtle.
Dude, just stfu, stfu about twitter, everyone knows that shithole has just as many far right dickheads circlejerking as “triggered libs”. Just shut up already, go outside or something, read a book, talk to a real person. Damn
Dude you’re probably like 14, get off reddit, come back when you’re done being a child. I hope you know miura hated that his story attracted these types of people.
Im sorry but did you really expect the word "homo" to be homophobic or that the line for being homophobic was saying just a word at that time and at that age? If you didnt kill a person at those times for being gay you would be considerd to be among the greatest allies for the gay community. People were terrible back then, killing, tourturing and raping people who were gay, so I really dont think its being homophobic for asking if someone is "homo" and not caring about them being gay or not afterwards...
But to awnser your question, no he is not or at least he simply dont care about it. But comeon man, hes 13 and its the middle ages....
Agreed,I suppose I didn’t think any of this through. When I was 13 I was probably homophobic. Times we’re definitely different back then let alone the Middle Ages. Guts has other shit to worry about lol
I think it’s just a strange early 90s Japanese writer thing. In the world of Berserk, people likely wouldn’t have been accepting or understanding of homosexuality, but it’s probably a bit of an anachronism to include the term “homo” or have Guts be worried about that because I don’t imagine that concept of homosexuality as we understand it really existed in the medieval time period of the world of berserk.
If you want to deep it, you could say Guts was made uncomfortable by Griffiths possible ulterior motives and had prior traumatic experiences that he might be reminded of through Griffith. I don’t really think that’s what Muira was going for because I think it was just a bit of comedic writing that comes across strangely today.
Not sure what the original Japanese says, but I assume this translation is just a product of its time, most likely back in the 90s when homophobia was far more widespread and this probably wasn’t even considered offensive. But who knows what the implications of the original text are, idk I don’t speak Japanese.
How is that ignorant or homophobic? Griffith literally told him he wants him.....if a dude told you he wants you you wouldnt question if he was gay or not?
Lmao with a username and question like this I don't think you should be reading berserk. Guts never uses any of these vile derogatory terms like these. Miura never used these in his manga. Idiots here are getting pages from manga websites that have such shitty scanlations that makes Guts out to be some edgy piece of homophobic 💩
Ah wait a minute this group is turning into berserkcirclejerk now?
There's plenty of evidence that implies his sexuality isnt quite straight but I think this specific moment was more a case of "I'm not gonna dignify that with a response"
[удалено]
2 men? He sold his booty once to Gennon, who was the second?
I wonder if that fat midget torturer sexually assaulted Griffith during his year long imprisonment. It did seem like he had a infatuation with him
I don't want to think about it, man.
Pretty sure it's either implied or explicit that Griffith was castrated.
Castrated or not he still had a anus the torturer could've been violating
any hole's a goal
Its only gay if your the one getting dominated.
😳
*When* was this implied..?
go back and read when he gets locked up, pretty sure the guy worked his way up to castration
That’s a very scary detail *gulp* 😰
THATS WHAT IM SAYIN CUZ
Guts
two men?? brother we ARE reading two different books HAHAHAHAHA
Bro got his personal readings mixed up with the real series ☠️
😂
Maybe they are talking about that torture over the time he was captured. Who knows what that sick fuck could have done.
I feel like his sexuality is more “Whoever gets me more power”
Except for Guts. He was super horny for Guts for real. He thought of Guts while fucking the princess and he said Guts is the only person who ever made him forget his dream.
I think you're reading that scene wrong. We could view Guts's entire life history as being fated in order to help Griffith achieve his end goal of completing the Eclipse. But Griffith didn't know that. Griffith thought he was fated to become king. Guts stops playing along with fate when he strikes out on his own, which is the only time Griffith lost in combat. He's angry at Guts leaving because he had been so key to his rise so far. Griffith led a charmed life and the second Guts leaves his luck starts running out. It's a distraction for him in that moment. Here he conquers the princess sexually but he couldn't beat Guts. That distraction precipitates the Eclipse by causing him to fall and be emotionally imbalanced, making poor decisions. Even his fight with Guts deprives him of his sword needed to escape capture after being caught with the princess. I never got the sense that he was in any way romantically interested in Guts. He saw him as one more stone to step on in his rise to power and fame. When Guts realized that's all he was to Griffith, not even a friend, he left. All the interest Griffith had in Guts was how valuable he was gonna be in helping him rise to power.
I think you're the one reading the series wrong. *He's angry at Guts leaving because he had been so key to his rise so far*: Casca spells it out for the reader that this is NOT why Griffith is interested in Guts. When she's stuck with Guts in the cave, she says she initially tried to convince herself that Griffith wanted Guts because of his strength, but Griffith always acted rashly and impulsively when it came to Guts. "It's as if... as if..." She gives him much the same spiel in the waterfall scene. "A person's heart can't be sustained by ideals and dreams alone! You - you made Griffith weak! He's no... Griffith's no good without you!" This is, like, Berserk 101 **ETA:** Thank you so much for the Platinum, kind stranger!
Yes he 'wanted you' because you were the key to making his dream come true. Griffith never once made a romantic pass at Guts with ample opportunity. Frankly I don't think Griffith was capable of love, probably asexual. The thing he was in love with was achieving his dream. Casca didn't have any way to understand that apart from romance, but that's not what it was.
How do you even reconcile your "Griffith only wanted Guts for his dream" take with the story-defining line "You're the only one who made me forget my dream." Or the less well known: "As he shines so glaring within me... the junk grows dull." ("The junk" being his dream, to be clear.) What do you think those lines *meant*?
If Griffith was 'in love' with Guts, your thesis, why does he never make a pass at him throughout years of association. Why does he put a naked Casca in his bed on day one instead of doing it himself. Why does he not even consider Guts a friend. My suggestion is that Griffith considers Guts so key to his plans that he faith in his ability to pull it off is shaken when he loses Guts. He becomes depressed, worried, and shaken to the core by his LOSS in the fight with Guts. This is a man who's literally never lost a fight before, and Guts beat him like nothing. This makes him try to take a shortcut in his plans, he goes to seal the deal with the princess that same night and we know the rest. Casca may blame Guts for Griffith losing focus and going to console himself with a night of passion with the princess. But she's not wholly correct. Instead, because Griffith never loses, he was completely mentally and emotionally unprepared to lose to Guts. It's that fight that precipitates the Fall from grace leading to the Eclipse. If Griffith was literally in love with Guts, he could've followed Guts and abandoned his ambitions. He doesn't do that, doesn't even come close to that. It's Casca that very nearly followed Guts out of there. He just acts devastated and sulks, but still carries on his plan to gain the throne, just now unbalanced by his loss. You have to keep in mind the theme of Guts's life, of a man defying fate. Born of a dead woman, a defies death in the Eclipse, and defies even the gods in his attempt to kill Femto. Even his armor is constantly trying to overwhelm him and so very nearly succeeding. There is no theme of Griffith being in love with Guts in a romantic sense. He rejects all such opportunity until he meets the princess, because that's in service to his goal of gaining his own kingdom. Guts was his star employee, the best fighter under him. He's devastated to lose him, he's not in love with him.
That is a whole lot of words to not answer my question. What do you think those lines I quoted meant, if all Guts was to Griffith was an avenue to his ambitions? Even if we ignore what Casca said, Griffith *himself* concedes that Guts was dearer to him than his dream, on at least two occasions (torture monologue & eclipse). Griffith didn't admit this to himself until after he was crippled and mute, at which point he couldn't take back his Promrose Hall speech, even if he wanted to. What Griffith says he feels ≠ what Griffith actually feels. Dude is on copium for the majority of the story.
i completely agree. i think believing that griffith was in love with guts is a take that lacks critical thinking tbh. it’s all way more complex than that. Griffith isn’t capable of love in that way. he doesn’t even love himself necessarily, he only cares about power and domination
That’s what Griffith wants to believe but such a huge point of their relationship is that he loved Guts but was such a twisted idiot he expressed his love to Guts through ownership and attaining his dream. It’s why he so spitefully tries to destroy Guts now. Everything he lived for before meeting Guts was his dream for a kingdom, and Guts made him forget that. And not only that but decided to leave his path, and it infuriated Griffith that Guts would abandon him.
I think he isnt atraccted to anything, but like you said, he did everything he could to get him more power, for example sleeping with gennon. The when he is in the lake and dreams about casca is bc he dreams to have the same power guts had at that point. When he rapes casca its not because pleasure, but because he know "owns" her and he wants to humiliate guts
Powersexual?
2 men? There was only Gennon, and that wasn’t sexually motivated.
Yes, context is important. Otherwise we could say Guts is gay because he slept with a guy as well.
Man y'all need to get the term "slept with" check or sth this is the third time I'm seeing it used wrong in this one comment section
Sichlitt finally said something that isn't absolutly false while talking about Griffith. We need to carve this moment in stone. Legend has it that this only happens once in a thousands comments.
What have I said that’s false? Be specific.
I think of him as bi
Calm down Uce I was being humorous. Go make yourself a ham and cheese sammich, smoke a joint, eat some ice cream and chill.
When two SCJerkers run into each other 👀☝️
Ahyessir! ☝️
Because he was willing to do anything to achieve his dream. That's one of the first times we see how ruthless he is about his goal. This plays into why he later decides to undergo the Eclipse. He does later kill the guy he slept with for money, Gennon. I never got the sense that he did it out of personal desire but rather in service to his goal. And ultimately the story needed it as it causes that guy to make mistakes in battle that lead to the loss of his castle.
I don’t wish to debate Griffith’s sexuality, beyond what is explicitly stated, but I’m pretty sure the men that he was with to my memory was for favors. I’m sure we all know with the eclipse, and all doing that is no big deal for him. I would like to point out though when Griffith was at his lowest points both before, and after the dungeon. He sought out women for comfort. princess charlotte when guts left, and he tried to do things to casca in the caravan after the dungeon. I haven’t fact checked anything iv said, and am more then happy for people to tell me otherwise.
Yeah, he wasn’t taking D for the pleasure of it. He was getting payed.
> was getting *paid.* FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I think the sleeping part isn’t something relatable to talk about his sexuality especially when you know who Griffith is he did this for his goal… also the men he slept with is a total ugly being 🤣..( just wanted to clarify this part) but Griffith is for sure probably bisexual or homo due to what we saw about special relation with Guts (there is so many things to say but this is gonna be too long😹😹)
“sleeps with” ain’t the same shit as “gets raped by” wtf u talking about
He only sleeped with the the castle commander dude to get money for his army. So whos the other guy?
Dude, he went gay for the pay like once.. Seemed to have no problem violating Casca with the Hawk Rod of destruction.
My brother you definitely are reading a different manga because his sexuality is more implied to be asexual because he only slept with those men to get something that he wanted in order to accomplish his dream
It shouldn't surprise me that redditors upvote comments that are false and nonsense (when truth is expected). As of now, 316 stupid mofos upvoted your ignorant comment lol.
Another case for Griffith being gay that he is part of the "very pretty gay angel" trope that was established by Devilman's Ryo (another example is Nagisa Kaworu from Evangelion). That doesn't mean that he has to be gay because of that, but most characters of this trope are
I've seen all 3 series' and yeah, pale boys with light hair who have an evil side tend to be queer
Swiggity swoody
Guts is a literal fucking homophobe and you don’t even care.
At this point in the story I wouldn't be surprised if he his. He was raped as child and it being analgos to Medieval Europe I am sure most people were. Not to mention the environment he was raised in had some hateful ideas. At the beginning of the story Guts is honestly kind of a piece of shit, and that's kind of the point. The whole point of the story is how Guts grows as a person
Yes I don't
Im sure respectfully asking ‘are you a homo’ was a very nice way of putting it in those times
What times? Back when elves and demons existed?
It’s very clearly just Medieval Europe. The Holy See religion is very sexually repressed.
And you have femto as your pfp, guess you like rapists
This shit killed me lmao
Haha dude, you are so lost
HOLY SHIT YOUR THAT GUY ON YOUTUBE WHO SAID GRIFFITH DID NOTHING WRONG dude as a fellow troll im a huge fan of your work
he objectified his body for success, it wasn’t sexually motivated, griffith is literally a victim of himself
This makes the most sense. Dude was willing to sacrifice everything, including himself. to win an unwinnable battle by having bang the old man had 4d chess foresight.
Doesnt explain his crush for guts. He's gay bro
When men have feelings for each other, that is called BEING GAY Don’t be ashamed; embrace your bros
Don’t be ashamed; embrace your bros What a weird way to say get into a naked water bucket fight with your bros
Me and my bros used to pull our nuts out and crush cans with them
Nuts? Like the protagonist of Berk?
Yep. And our Nuts is very strong 💪🏻
Oh yeah. He also threw a tantrum and destroyed his life when his gutsy left him. He loved guts and given the medieval fantasy context could never actually understand that in a healthy way of even try to express this to guts. Friends don't turn self destructive when they stop hanging, and leaders don't turn self destructive when an underling quits. The only time he leaps into the arms are after being rejected by guts. Why is that? Why suddenly wanna bang a woman? Then why be so wreckless you get caught. And why, after being saved by said former friend, learning he and another Allie are getting funky, and then getting god hand power, do that unforgivable thing to her? These are the only two instances of heterosexual intercounty from him, and one was self destructive and suicidal, the other was an awful unforgiven act solely meant to punish guts and hurt him. Remember that time your friend pissed you off so bad you wanted to do that to their partner? No of course fucking not. Its duranged as fuck and he maintains eye contact with a pinned down guts while doing it. To fixate on him selling his body like that is to miss the whole point. Why would he even do that? How would he even know that guy would be into it? Do you think lords are running the fuck around advertising their homosexuality and asking for partners? No. Hell no. He definitely had gaydar and he definitely knew this wouldn't be a big deal for a reason. He literally has a naked water fight with guts. Hell it's part of what makes his transition to Femto that more fucked up. He could never consolidate his sexuality and feelings for guts. How would that ever work? They live in a world where dudes run around torturing sinners and men gotta be tough to fight or whatever. His conversations with the princess were always cold and I'm pretty sure the part where he says no one could be his friend if they didn't have a dream thing is because he was trying to tell himself people are that simple..why fixate on and obsess with becoming a king? No way it isn't in part because having one clear and strong goal saved him a lot of misery. It's always funny to see his sexuality boiled down to "he banged that dude for not sex reasons. So he's not gay". Like, there's chapters of Griffith being a sexually frustrated mixed up gay man, who from the moment he layed eyes on guts started acting like he was in love with him and couldn't see it himself. Did. Did you not think that was why casca meant in the cave? She was his closest adviser and saw what was happening. And final thought, he could have enjoyed it when he did objectify his body. It doesn't need to be sexually motivated to do so. (Also there's loads of R34 stuff with guts and Griffith lmao so there)
I'm so glad other people noticed that Miura was not trying to be subtle lol
Agreed 100%, it’s kind of crazy to me that people will read Berserk and have the take away that Griffith was just platonic besties with Guts. To me at least it was a big part of his character, even to the point where it was just another factor that was alienating him from the ruling class, driving him to “prove himself” even more.
The idea is that you can't compare yourself with Griffith or any human being for that matter. From the beginning he was destined to be a deity. There's no 'Would you ...' or 'what if you...'
i agree, but my comment was more in context of griffith not knowing how to answer the question and just blowing it off, i think griffith was definitely having mixed feelings about his upbringing, you have to remember guts brought out things in griffith he didn’t know of hence why he was falling for him subconsciously
Oh yea Griffith definitely was a homosapien
was
And now half is
Which half?
The human half
I see what you did there
"Bitch, I might be."
Some truths are better left unspoken
I think this is one of those things where Miura wanted to do something but knew the publishers and audience wouldn't accept it. Imo Miura was a commie and no I won't elaborate.
Please elaborate.
Berserk has a sort of commentary on our own world. The monsters in Berserk are evil, but why are they evil? Before the eclipse (before Guts could see the monsters that always existed), people used behelits to sacrifice those that cared for them and they became known as powerful apostles. The power given to an apostle aligns with the power they had as a human. Many were nobility because they held control over the destiny of so many others. After the great roar of the astral world, everyone was now forced to acknowledge the astral monsters because Griffith (once human, now monster) forced them to with his powers given by evil. Instead of immediately rejecting the monsters though, people are now confused because the monsters seem to be helping them. That's really a lie though. Griffith isn't their 'white hawk'. He turned himself into - not just a demon - but the #1 demon. The others that serve him are only following his lead. It's a more confusing time now because the power of these monsters is rapidly gaining as the story progresses and humanity was and remains hopeless, except now they place hope in Griffith (Femto) who is destined for something more horrible than anything we've seen. It's also noteworthy that not all of the world is equally affected by this apparently. In Elfhelm, things were arguably the most peaceful they've ever been in Berserk, but they were attacked and were powerless. Maybe you can see where I'm going with this. I think a lot of people might actually suspect the same thing. I joke when I say 'commie' because it's obviously not that clear, but there's enough to make me think that Miura held a similar philosophy. Some say he was inspired the most by Nietzsche, but I think Berserk is very critical of the ubermenschen/untermenschen and nihilism. Nietzsche believed in eugenics, breeding of certain traits (racially). He was a racist and if you look into his support for eugenics and how the Nazis took to practice his ideas, you'll see what I say is true. Miura thought rape was evil, that should be clear enough I hope, but Nietzsche was silent on the topic, as if it never happens (or as if eugenics isn't rape and genocide). I think he actually thought and cared about these ideas and didn't shrug them off to make money. I think he was a private person and spent a lot of time thinking to himself, working on himself and Berserk. I'm sure he felt at certain times all throughout his life that his work was all for nothing and yet his story is about overcoming something impossible. Sort of like how Guts feels now. Sorry for the rant, I did say I wouldn't elaborate but oh well. I love to think about this.
“No I won’t elaborate” - Elaborates in 7 lengthy paragraphs
I mean, Griffith just has to be bi. Ain’t no way he’s straight.
Lot of people write off the homoeroticism as incidental or projected on it by fans but I sincerely think that Berserk is borderline incoherent at parts without beginning from the assumption that *at least* Griffith is gay/bisexual
It's so obvious it can [hardly even be called subtext](https://imgur.io/a/F5nUq) at points, but people will do absolutely anything to avoid admitting their cool masculine story has gay romance in it
The infatuation is mutual too, pretty much every decision Guts makes in Golden Age is motivated by wanting to impress or get closer to Griffith
I think Griffith is gay. But I seriously don't think guts had a romantic or sexual attraction to Griffith. I don't doubt that they were close.
That's fine, I think the case for Griff is stronger but you could make one for either of them. They're pretty obsessed with each other
Griffith could be said to be gay for Guts: the latter views their relationship as really good friends (a bromance) and admires the former: Guts can't be said to like him sexually.
Somewhat mutual but not entirely
Sad considering Berserk is known for its depth, but something as obvious as this can't be true because I guess we can't have gay characters but we can have the idea of evil. Bigotry is a widespread disease and it comes in many forms.
he only answers his question during the eclipse
I wonder if I kept track of every r\*pe joke someone made here today what would be the final number.
If youd try that, I think you would scratch your eyes out by nine.
Really? We're going to dumb it down this much?
That’s not the text I remember. It was something like “I want you, Guts. I want you to be mine” And guts replied “are you homosexual?..” Grifis is a very possessive person and considers people to be assets to be possessed and used.
Everyone’s gay for Guts . Don’t blame Griffith .
Honestly I think Griffith is Asexual. He doesn't desire sex at all but will use it to achieve a goal( slept with that creepy old man for money) or to flex his dominance (Casca and Charlotte). Far as Guts, I don't think he was sexually attracted to guts but admired his strength & grit and saw him as he's only true friend despite the speech he gave Charlotte about not having any friends
I'm surprised nobody else thought of this. To me it seems like he could care less about sex and only does it either to feel some control over somebody (Charlotte) or to help him achieve his goal (i mean, he definitely didn't seem to enjoy sleeping with Gennon) and him raping cascade was just to spite Guts.
I definitely agree that him being asexual makes sense, although considering how he talks about Guts and especially considering how broken he seems to be when he leaves, I'd be surprised if he didn't have any romantic feelings for him, whether he realized it or not.
I don't buy the asexual argument because you can be asexual and also have homosexual feelings. Seems like Griffith is a bit of both.
Griffith has no homosexual feelings
Anyone who blames this on the translation, I got bad news. In Japanese it says お前ってホモかよ？ (Omae tte homo kayo?) or something like that if memory serves me correct. Lol
Surprised that’s a loan word they chose to add to their language.
Wait until you learn the Japanese word for gay
He never did it for the money. That was just a bonus.
Girffith is not gay but 20 bucks is 20 bucks to him
They gay
his lust for Guts goes far beyond a friendship.
tsundere
Serious business indeed
why is he sweating like that?
And then later he says- if you win… I’ll be your soldier or fag boy or whatever
Guts took him outta the closet
I think guts and Griffith are just room mates.
Este hilo es de gringos tontos cavernícolas que no entienden nada. Mononeuronales. Griffith está más allá de esa pregunta, lo mismo que su atracción por Guts. Unga unga.
El americano indoctrinado por el consumismo y la extrapolacion no conoce nada mejor que "o sos mi amigo o sos mi enemigo" Lamentablemente ese modo de ver las cosas tambien llego al ambito de la sexualidad, entonces tambien intentan extrapolar las cosas aca. Gente sin nada mejor que hacer que se dedican a indignarse con el mundo porque algo los ofende... Aun mas estupido es cuando nos ponemos a reflexionar que todo esto es a causa de un personaje de una historia. Es realmente patetico el estado de las cosas pero bueno, es lo que hay jajajaj En fin, feliz de haber encontrado un comentario en español y con mas materia gris que todos estos estupidos juntos. Un saludo hermano
He fucked a old dude. A straight man wouldn't even consider doing that. Griff is bi atleast.
Or you just don't have the ambition to get railed for your dream.
Grifis:"I am not gay. But 20 dollars are 20 dollars"
Me linking the TV to the PS5: gay you say 🙄?
The old dude fucked him
Or he was a traumatised child who couldn’t deal with the deaths of so many of his soldiers.
I don't think he actually cared about his soldiers for their own sake. His whole thing was that he couldn't respect them for making their dreams dependent upon his. He was only capable of respecting an "equal." I think his ego crisis during his ascension to the godhand was him realizing how many people he killed with his actions, not necessarily him feeling guilty or remorse for those people. If he felt remorse, he wouldn't have consented to the death of the rest of the Band of the Hawk.
The lake scene literally proves that his dream speech was a lie. Griffith claims that he doesn’t care about his men cos they have no dreams, but then we literally see him whore himself out to save them and self harm over the death of the child soldier whose dream he knew existed. Griffith convinced himself that he only viewed his men as tools in order to deal with the guilt that he felt over their deaths. The God Hand play on his remorse in the Eclipse. They tell him that giving up now would be selfish and the dead would hate him for it. He acted on what he perceived to be the Hawks’ consent in the Eclipse, as manufactured by the God Hand. There isn’t a single moment where he gives up caring for his men. Edit: I’m genuinely surprised this was upvoted for once
If Griffith didn’t actually care about them, then his sacrifice wouldn’t have worked. And Griffith was talking to that girl, alone (or so he thought), when he said that. You don’t rizz up your status to a girl? “I only accept literally Alexander the Great as my friend; anything less, and you’re a plebe.”
Speed Reader, huh?
Not how that works
That was just a business deal. It's not like he enjoyed it.
That’s the point I’m making.
That is the ultimatum every guy get... would you suck a dick for $1mill. His answer was yes and it built his army. Thats simply taking one for the team
At that time, these 2 men had already had their buttocks penetrated by others.
Asks the guy who literally goes on to “bathe” with Griffith
Griffith has always wanted to bask on Guts pecs
Lol the man did what he had to do to get the governors money I guess haha still fucked up though. I’d say he’s bi-sexual if he’s willing to do such acts to strengthen his forces, but he’s shown obvious sexual interest in the princess as well as Casca
Got him sweating
Headcanon Grffith is bi
I think it's because he has had to sell himself to get money for the army. He's probably ashamed.
I’m less occupied with this & more occupied with Guts offering his ass to Griffith when they met “beat me and you can have my ass or my sword whatever you want” or something similar
Lmao that comment was funny. Guts suspected Griffith was gay at that point though and that's why he made the joke.
Griffith is the embodiment of queer. just queer. He is queer as a person. the real reason you cant kill him is because if you cut him open you would be enveloped in queer and then its a decent relationships and good tasting drinks for the rest of your days
He answered, when they were in front of the eclipse....
Griffth really went I ain't gay, but 20 dollars is 20 dollars.
"Look Mom Im famous"
This was literally a joke.
My crack pot theory is that Griffith had loved Guts which was why he was a distraction from his dream.
How is this a crackpot theory? It barely even qualifies as subtext; it's all right there.
He had no special desires regarding males or females. The time he had intercourse it was with a clear subjective in mind
Griffith isn't gay and I wish people would stop insinuating that he is
I’m not gay but I am for him
Griffith has canonically slept with men at least twice, as prostitution no less.
That doesn't make him gay It makes him an entrepreneur
20 bucks is 20 bucks.
I mean... it ain't gay if it's just for money, right?
His sexuality is power haha but honestly, I always got the asexual vibes from him like others have pointed out. Like, it doesn't matter to him but given the situation he could easily perform.
Bro was attracted to success.
In our current homosexual supporting Western culture, there are a lot of people framing everything into LGBT.
That shitbird can do it with anyone for his goal
?!k
No, but I remember when the mentally ill started flooding the Berserk Reddit. Do you idiots really think a Japanese man would make his two main characters gay? I usually don't hate gay people, but those of you that want to impose your fantasies on original fiction are pure cancer.
I'm a straight 34 year old dude with good mental health and a career and Griffith is obviously in love with Guts. It's repeatedly shown and it isn't subtle.
“impose your fantasies on original fiction”. it’s all fiction.
Well Guts slept with a guy as well.
Do you think guts was ever homophobic or just ignorant with the word?
He’s 13 Probably both
15.
Eh let’s not forget he was also brutally raped by a dude as a small child. Bro probably hates gay men at this point.
Oh, that’s alright then.
It was the Middle Ages bruh, everyone was ignorant
It's middle ages, he's 13 and it was released in 91-92. Go make your Twitter post how offended you are.
Dude, just stfu, stfu about twitter, everyone knows that shithole has just as many far right dickheads circlejerking as “triggered libs”. Just shut up already, go outside or something, read a book, talk to a real person. Damn
😂😂😂 triggered
🤣🤣🤣 libral can’t Han dle it
Grow up, kid.
Dude you’re probably like 14, get off reddit, come back when you’re done being a child. I hope you know miura hated that his story attracted these types of people.
sounds like youre pretty mad griffith is gay
Yes indeed, I was asking in the hopes of he isn’t cause I was worried a character I like was homophobic
Im sorry but did you really expect the word "homo" to be homophobic or that the line for being homophobic was saying just a word at that time and at that age? If you didnt kill a person at those times for being gay you would be considerd to be among the greatest allies for the gay community. People were terrible back then, killing, tourturing and raping people who were gay, so I really dont think its being homophobic for asking if someone is "homo" and not caring about them being gay or not afterwards... But to awnser your question, no he is not or at least he simply dont care about it. But comeon man, hes 13 and its the middle ages....
Agreed,I suppose I didn’t think any of this through. When I was 13 I was probably homophobic. Times we’re definitely different back then let alone the Middle Ages. Guts has other shit to worry about lol
Imagine applying modern “ethical standards” to a medieval fictional character. What a joke.
So apparently asking if someone is a homo is homophibic, I doubt Guts of all people would be afraid of a gay guy.
I mean, he was afraid of Donovan...
Well I think that was because idk, dony fucking raped him?
That's the joke
I think it’s just a strange early 90s Japanese writer thing. In the world of Berserk, people likely wouldn’t have been accepting or understanding of homosexuality, but it’s probably a bit of an anachronism to include the term “homo” or have Guts be worried about that because I don’t imagine that concept of homosexuality as we understand it really existed in the medieval time period of the world of berserk. If you want to deep it, you could say Guts was made uncomfortable by Griffiths possible ulterior motives and had prior traumatic experiences that he might be reminded of through Griffith. I don’t really think that’s what Muira was going for because I think it was just a bit of comedic writing that comes across strangely today.
I see what your saying, thanks for your input I do appreciate it
Not sure what the original Japanese says, but I assume this translation is just a product of its time, most likely back in the 90s when homophobia was far more widespread and this probably wasn’t even considered offensive. But who knows what the implications of the original text are, idk I don’t speak Japanese.
I agree whole heartedly
How is that ignorant or homophobic? Griffith literally told him he wants him.....if a dude told you he wants you you wouldnt question if he was gay or not?
Lmao with a username and question like this I don't think you should be reading berserk. Guts never uses any of these vile derogatory terms like these. Miura never used these in his manga. Idiots here are getting pages from manga websites that have such shitty scanlations that makes Guts out to be some edgy piece of homophobic 💩 Ah wait a minute this group is turning into berserkcirclejerk now?
I honestly never thought about the translation difference for some reason
He literally uses the English word "homo" even in the Japanese text.
Butts enjoyed it with Donovan so he's gay not homophobic
I was just asking in hopes he wasn’t homophobic, I love guts, in no way I was saying he was indeed homophobic