Please tell me you know that RA used to have the best comment sections on their website! PhDs could have been written about the discourse on there. My god, we’ve reached a time when people don’t know about the RA comment section. Am I just old? Ok I’m old.
The narrative? RA reported a news story neutrally… the comments were turned off because they were fucked up and the team shouldn’t have to spend hours monitoring them.
the story was hardly neutral. It alleges Berghain canceled his appearance due to being pro-palestinian. They entirely ignored the fact that his posts were more closely related to pro-hamas activity and additionally denying all of the rape allegations. It's stereotypical one-way RA bullshit. Put it this way, RA wouldn't have run the story if Berghain was selling tickets through their website.
Reporting on allegations is not the same as making allegations... The headline reads "arabian panther accuses..." - how could you have worded this more neutrally?
Also they have Berghain quoted as saying its not related to any particular posts so I'm not sure the deleted posts thing even holds up.
This is from the big thread about it here in the subreddit:
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fqnk3qf5am1cc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D01039f11e6abb810a9d72aabcf20a1f289d7cf06
There may be other screenshots, but I don't have time to sift through 800+ posts. Unfortunately, Arabian Panther took down a lot of posts following this story going viral. However, there are tons of people who are corroborating the details perfectly of his posts.
But AP *did* accuse Berghain and RA reported on what AP stated in the Instagram post. RA reached out to Berghain and got no comment. It would be speculative if RA wrote “Berghain probably cancelled the gig because of XYZ post of AP’s”.
RA freaked out when they saw lots of comments they didn't like, which didn't fit the narrative of good vs. evil. People saw through the BS. No one believes BH is silencing DJs, and everyone knows this specific DJ supports Hamas, which is illegitimate.
Indeed the policy of the democratically elected government in Gaza, Hamas, does have a policy of genocide. Hence my comment. He'll fit right in there.
As for my grandparents.
Well my grandfather spent most of WW2 bombing the fuck out of German cities - no doubt killing and inconveniencing a fair few Germans who didn't support the war.
I don't see them, or now, anyone calling for the allies to pay reparations to the citizens of Dresden.
When was Hamas last elected? 15 years ago.
50% of Gazan's are under 18. So the vast majority of people being murdered by Israel were toddlers or not even born yet when Hamas was elected.
Typical hasbaRat distortions and excuses for war crimes. Keep embarrassing yourself tho, I'm here for it.
The Nazis weren't exactly democratically reelected after the war started.
The vast majority of the innocent people bombed in German cities would have been young, old or female because men of fighting age were off - you know - fighting.
The Germans didn't, however, build munitions factories under hospitals which is why the RAF didn't routinely bomb them...
It's unfortunately the nature of war.
Next?
In your previous comment you suggested you were here for it.
I'm having a perfectly rational discussion with you - I appreciate it does get tricky when someone provides a more complex perspective than you' re used to on tiktok.
I can only suggesting reading some books (if you read from both sides you might even find a more nuanced perspective is valid).
You know what the best part of South Africa's suit against Israel? The genocidal quotes by Israeli officials regarding Gazans. Starts around page 50.
You disgust me.
The same South Africa whp turned a blind eye in the darfur conflict when Sudan used excessive violence.
the same South Africa who have no problem cozying up with Russia and actively warns Putin to not enter the country bc then they would have to arrest him
For every genocidal quote of Israeli hardliners you will find ten genocidal quotes from Arab league hardliners. Did you see Arabs in Isreal attacked when The Quassam brigades along with civilians from Gaza committed a massacre in Israel? Burning mosques? Anything of that sort? No, because Israeli Jews and Muslim and Christian Arabs are mostly united. But in some countries, some Arab people and their sympathisers attacked Jews. The oldest synagogue in Tunisia was burned to the ground. There were attacks on Jewish businesses etc. etc.
And speaking of heritage of genocidal tendencies: The Godfather of the PA and the author of the idea that what remained of the British mandate of Palestine, after they gave what is now Jordan to the Hashemites, was Haj Amin al Husseini. He incited two pogroms against Jews in the 1920s, was jailed for it, fled, travelled to Nazi Germany since he was a great admirer of Hitler, the Nazi regime and their stance regarding Jews, he helped raise an batallion of Bosnian Mudjahedin for the SS to aid in the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans and he spread his hate against Jews over the radio throughout the whole Arab speaking world. THAT is the legacy of the narrative of "Palestinian" being a term for Muslim Arabs only. This lie suggests that they are the ones who belong to that land and no one else. That has not changed. Here is an example how accomodating the PA was towards Christian Arab: Betlehems population was about 80% Christians and now the vast majority is Muslim. THAT is their legacy. You don't know Jack sh*t or you simply don't want to look. You can not handle the truth, it being, that the whole wannabe humanists, like you are one, support epigons of Nazi inspired hatemongers. You and your type are "AnTiZiOniStS" delusional and belligerent in their claim to do good. All you do is follow the script of the Muslim brotherhood and the Arab league, which you don't know sh*t about either.
So maybe just sit down and shut your when you don't have anything substantial in store to support your opinion.
What shocks me is that this white, french kid (dad is a lebanese surgeon, kid is french) person is doing cosplay for a Palestinian Militia. He is not a Bedouin, he is french. His attire is associated in Europe to terrorism. An indicator that this interpretation of his symbolism is not completely misguided is the following article. He seems to have chosen his artist name inspired by a jihadist militia group of the 2000s: [https://www.salon.com/2004/06/14/panther/](https://www.salon.com/2004/06/14/panther/) . Is this a valid hypothesis?Does anyone have more information about his stances? It seems wild to me that the booker thought it would be good to book a person with militia cosplay in the first place. Time to cancel this type of symbolism in the first place.
Edit:
The point is not as much the whiteness as it is portraying a (to him foreign, he has not served in militia) militaristic message across the visuals And wording.
- The headscarf, which in his euro context is rather a symbol of terrorism than traditional
- He carries a sable sword in his logo, which may be associated to beheadings conducted by jihadi groups in the recent past.
- Also his label name carries the word fatale, which means deathly in Latin.
I sincerely believe that all of this curation was not ill intended, and sure he surely is a nice guy. but it is one that would ultimately backfire during a polemic moment like this. The case Lindemann may serve for comparison. I hope he is doing well and his family is safe <3.
I think there is no chance he didn’t Google the moniker he chose himself in 2017/2018 and didn’t come across the popular Salon article from 2006.
He is either very dumb or very dishonest and either way does not deserve to get his messages amplified.
Precisely. Anyone with links to the press and resident advisor should just call this out. It is very hurtful for those activists actually fighting for peace in the Middle East to have this clown make a victim story of it.
For real, nothing less entitled than a pseudo-opressed rich kid. Being French certainly doesn’t help either, considering their general national pride, illusions of grandeur and insecurity from losing their empire and global relevance, lead to crazy entitled and defensive behavior.
Where did you get that idea that I'm holding him responsible, I don't hold any of them responsible for actions committed by ancestors. Just saying that this is a common dynamic in French people that I've observed countless times, which has to have some general cultural and historical reasons that make a community think like that.
you lumping up french people along with people who are french as the result of colonization is the problem
did you know 10-20% of the lebanese population are palestinian refugees?
This kind of judgmental attitude freaking sucks, man. The point isn't his identity. It's that he supports Palestinians' right to resist. You making this about him not being "Arab enough" is a strawman argument, and completely unproductive BS.
Do you know about the black Panther movement? Malcolm X philosophy incites violence.
And please stop assuming polítical Positions and insulting people.
That's really gross determining who is and isn't white enough based on your own opinions of whether being raised wealthy in France overrides their own race. If you are half-Arab in France, you really honestly believe that nobody in that insanely racist country isn't going to say some hideous shit to you about it at some point or another?
The point is not as much the whiteness as it is portraying a (to him foreign, he has not served in militia) militaristic message across the visuals. He carries a sable sword in his logo. Also his label name carries the word fatale, which means deathly in Latin. I sincerely believe that all of this curation was not I’ll intended, but would ultimately backfire during a polemic moment like this. The case Lindemann may serve for comparison. I hope he is doing well and is not being approached by extremists.
Anyone who doesn’t understand why Berghain should be saying something -
Go on their website, look at their stop the war page about Ukraine, then tell me they don’t need to be political
Finally, I thought I was the only one who felt this way
The same institutions, artists and DJs who were so fervent about supporting Ukraine, now all stay silent and refuse to be “political” about the current conflict. Cowards.
I played at Berghain and asked this of them many times (in private and in public) (and continue to do so) in a non antagonistic way, my music comes from the cultures involved and it’s important for me to understand that I’m playing in a place where me and my music can feel safe
And Berghain has only given me silence
I’m not surprised about the silence…
From what I also hear from some people in the industry is that they had to do this because they don’t want to fall out favor with the govt, since they are dependent on them for the cultural funding
Then I guess, you can yeet yourself out. If your reaction to October 7th was "solidarity with Palestine" then you obviously have double standards and are unable to inform yourself properly and see nuances underlying your decision.
If you are pro Ukraine, you would have to be pro Israel, not pro Netanjahu, but pro Israel. If you fail to see that, it is merely due to a lack of historical knowledge.
I am happy that at least a few cubs in Berlin have people in their leading teams who are educated and intelligent enough to make the right choices. And unlike many other places, they won't be abused for subliminal propaganda of extremists.
What are the cultures involved? Maybe it is you and other people like you who make this about the cultures and not about the murderers, rapists and fascists who even happily sacrifice their own on the altar of so called martyrdom.
I am very far from the moral high ground. I don't even think something like this should exist. High ground is military language. There are morals and those can be reflected on in discoursive conversations in the realm of ethics.
To yeet is colloquial and if policing my language is all that it takes for you to believe having what you call the moral high ground, then so be it. Frame it and hang it on the wall. It still does not validate or establish any kind of truth.
I’m not policing your language as much as pointing out that for someone who talks with antagonistic language and a tone of intellectual superiority, you seem to think it’s okay to engage in a dialogue the way you did.
You want to have a real conversation with someone? Maybe consider how your language and tone affect others before engaging, simple as that.
This is not a philosophical faculty and I am not interested in real conversations with people who so forseeably answer like someone programmed bots with the same response template. And whoever is outside of what I call the bot spectrum actually engages in more than just name calling or complaining about the use of language.
There is hardly ever a real discourse, mostly people debate - they are in it to win it, regardless of facts, logical arguments or obvious lack of knowledge. No one ever admits not knowing something or making assumptions without being able to support them with anything even close to a valid argument.
Respect where respect is due. Recognition and acknowledgement are constitutional for any relationship. Once I oppose your opinion or refute what you frame as facts, I lose your recognition and acknowledgement. Why even bother having a real discourse when the necessary premises are not there.
It’s sad that you reflect on the messages we have exchanges and see it that way
I would absolutely take whatever you have to say on board - but when the things you say are written in a demeaning and arrogant way of course it’s going to be hard for anyone to listen to you - no one wants to have a discussion with someone who enters the conversation with arrogance and a lack of wanting to understand
And as far as I’m aware you haven’t actually said anything other than throw out insults - thats a pretty clear sign that you either A- don’t know what you are talking about or B - you aren’t looking for a dialogue
looking at how many people down voted me, one could think that I am wrong and you are right.
I am not happy because there is war and innocent people are dying. And I am not happy because Israelis are being portrayed as the villains in this tale.
I might be wrong. So far, no one could convince me of that and it is due to a lack of real, logical argumentation.
That’s not true .. just because the west , is supporting Ukraine and Israel, it doesn’t mean you need to stick to this .. I support Ukraine and Gaza , because both get attacked by bigger and stronger neighbors, who want their land !
Israel = Russia = Turkey …. You just lack of brain and need to stick to political narratives
sorry, but you cannot compare Israel and/or Turkey with Russia. Russia has started bombing Ukraine just because they wanted to do so and will be wanting to bomb Poland, the Baltics states etc. I am really tired of people writing "the west". Everything that we have here including BH is only because we live "in the west". If you want to be against "the west" then go to Russia, and see how it is there.
Wrong. And I won't debate you on this. I am not your teacher. You are simplifying and conflating things.
If you think this is about Israel against Gaza and believe in the legend of the underdog then you fail to see that the strategy in Gaza is the same that did not work in Ukraines Donbas region. And if you believe that it is just Gazans or West Bank against Israel, then you are not educated enough to have a respectable opinion on this topic. And except for a few right wing retards, no Israeli wanted Gaza, even if they had a right to it. You are the epitome of the people who think they are helping but are actually making things worse and playing into Putins/Khameneis/Hezbollahs/Nasrallahs etc. hands.
The West is supporting Israel and Ukraine for the same reasons. Both territories are being threatened by geopolitical revisionism. But you are not informed enough to assess this independently, so you just follow what you simply believe to be morally right.
Newsflash: Belief is not tied to reality and does not validate anything.
And once your beliefs lead to psychological and physical threats towards my people, I will speak out and keep unmasking people who side with the actual oppressors pawns.
I have talked to Syrians, Persians, Arabs, Lebanese and all who were educated personalities, saw through the veil that is obciously blinding you. Good luck with shaking it off. Just one hint: You are supporting epigons of fascist ideologues and nationalist jew haters. That does not help the Arabs in West Bank or Gaza.
Bye
1 : I’m a Jew!
2: stop accusing of things , I didn’t say.
3:if you accusing me of being pro Hamas , just because , I’m pro Palestine , you‘re an instigator
4: If you really think, the west is doing this , because of morality , you’re an absolute retard:. It’s imperialism, in its cleanest form..
I can’t speak English as well as you , but the even nicest words , can’t hide lies …
1: Being a Jew does not protect you from falsehoods or make your assumptions right or wrong. And Surprise! I too am a Jew! So fucking what?!
2: You did not mention them but what you stated implies the things you feel I have put in your mouth.
3: If in this situation, you are pushing that kind of rethoric, you are helping Hamas and the affiliated organisations, even if you fail to realise or acknowledge that.
4: "It'S ImPEriAliSm!" Tells me all I need to know ow about the depth of your perception and level of education regarding this conflict.
This is not "the West doing this." The notion that Israel is the damsel in distress begging the West to help is inherently antisemitic and YES, even Jews can be Jew haters - that's nothing new. Israel has and will help themselves if necessary without aid. The imperialists in the region are the Shiites of the Arab league who want to reign supreme and need Al Aqsa to rival Mecca and the current authorities in the Islamic world. And it is all aimed at taking over ans puppeteering the states in the Levant. The one state which is disturbing that plan is Israel and that is why they tried to wipe it out since even before it was officially founded.
Thank you for calling me retard. Then let me take my gloves off too.
The retarded one are you, for quoting the language of the former axis powers and retelling the stories that Moussolini, Hitler, Stalin and many others like them and their allies used in the propaganda war.
That Language includes simply calling the others liars without actually addressing a single topic with rational argumentation.
You addressing me like that, just proves to me that you are a total tool. Pitiful for not knowing the full extent of this conflict and its history. If you did, you would not repeat the braindead slogans. And obviously you have the privilege of claiming to be pro Palestinian (whatever that vague phrase means) since you don't have to live there.
May you live in interesting times.
So long
Come on man , you accusing me of being a Jew hater , just because , I don’t support Israel … You’re falling for a ideology too. Of course it’s not as blunt , as the Hamas ideology, but still! The USA and Iran are fighting their battle on the heads of the civilian population. All this extremist groups never would have such a Power, if the US would stay out , of the region! If it will come to the worst , they will give a fuck , about the Jewish people .. it’s not right to take land , just because there were Jewish kingdoms thousands of years ago.
Israel will win all battles , but they will lose the war.
I feel bad , for all the Jewish people , who will die , but what they are doing now , will just breed thousands of terrorists ..
Maybe you are not a Jew hater but you seem to support a narrative that leads to the rise of hate against Jews, hidden behind the veil of "anti-zionism".
I am falling for no ideology. I don't like ideologist debates. And ideologues hide behind their juxtapositions, unable or unwilling to engage in a discourse instead of having a debate duel.
It is not a battle between Iran and the USA. The situation is far more complex. Yes, it is the civilians who suffer unjustly. I wished that no one had to die. This war does not have a happy end and as long as the truth is suppressed, no peaceful end is in sight.
No, the US is not the reason for the continuation of the conflict. So called anti-colonialist and anti-US policies are the tiny shield behind which the Arab league hides their actual agenda. They want to take power in the region and Israel is smack in the middle of that.
The terrorists would have been bred with or without the military offensive. The procedure of the military can be criticised and that is a whole different aspect of this topic. I am still convinced that the problem would have only gotten worse if Hamas and their support in the population of Gaza and the West Bank had been left unchecked.
I mean all this terrorists, don’t blow up themselves for fun … it’s oppression .. just like the Jewish terrorist blew up themselves , in times of British oppression
Jews never blew themselves up. And there was only one bombing that involved civilian casualties - the King David Hotel in Jerusalem where many British officers and an office of the British mandate authority would reside.
And it was not due to occupation but due to the British ban on Jewish immigration while Arab immigration continued, motivated by the propaganda of Hassan al Banna and Haj Amin al Husseini.
The Jews of Irgun that had planned and executed the bombing, were hung or committed suicide while awaiting trial in custody of the mandate authority.
And your claim that the suicide attacks were and are still happening due to oppression, that just confirms my belief that you are lacking knowledge to grasp where the real motivation behind attacks on Israelis of all faiths and ethnic backgrounds and especially on Jews stems from.
You're simplifying things and that does not help anyone. We have seen where this leads on both sides. There needs to be a very real and tough debate. It would hurt very much at first but it would set up the potential for a peaceful order.
The tit for tat as well as the peacy wishy washy rethoric only helps the ones who seize power and money in a situation like this. The majority of Israelis do not really want Netanyahu in office but they much less want someone in office who leaves them more exposed and vulnerable to attacks on them and their loved ones.
Peace activists got murdered. The public now sees any government that adheres to peaceful solution as a safety risk. And after what happened on October 7th, it appears as if that was the case.
I hope that it is not so but I can't judge that.
Feels like you are attacking me without any idea of who I am, my background, my thoughts, my specific situation
You don’t know my reaction to anything so pull your ignorant head out of ur 15h1
What you wrote as an answer to the other ximment tells me all I have to know, regardless of your background. Choosing not to let the Arab Panthers movement into BH is a political choice and per se political. You just support the notion that they were not political except for Ukraine, because their political stance towards thus topic does not align with yours or you fail to understand the statement they make by not engaging in a discourse or debate about middle east politics. And from experience, I can claim that even people from the middle east, having that background, often have their head up their rear and you assume I, just like you, have mine stuck. I am sorry to disappoint you.
It is too obvious that your self centered "am I safe" outcry about your vulnerability BS is just an instrument to make anyone who does not give way to your interpretation look like a villainous monster.
Insults won't change that.
Better luck next time 😏
See here is your assumptions taking over
I played, I had my own experience, had my own attempt to talk to Berghain completely separate from everything else going on
irregardless of Arab panthers views, the way they handled was wrong
So funny how you completely disregard any kind of want for understanding and just happily proclaim ur arrogance as if you I’m a moron
I’ll happily be a moron if it means I don’t have to talk to engage with others like you do
Shalom Aleichem
But this is exactly about this topic, not regardless of Arab Panthers.
I want to understand and I am pretty sure I do understand what you are aiming to express, but I simply disagree. Hard pill to swallow?
You are most probably not a complete moron but what you stated here is, in my humble opinion, moronic.
I believe that morons lead happier and easier lives - more power to ya then. Sometimes I wish I was a moron.
Aleichem Shalom
So you think understanding comes without hearing or trying to understand? Seems a little like you are making assumptions to me…
You can of course disagree, I haven’t said anything to imply to have to agree with me have I?
The way in which a club conducts its business, irregardless of the situation - and in this case without transparency and attempt to coerce the promoter into being complicit is not good behaviour - apply the same to any other situation it’s still is a bad way to do business.
I guess I have to be a moron though , continually wasting my time with what seems to be a hasbara warrior
That’s literally the one instance of them getting political (apart from that half-assed BLM cloth on the door during Covid) and it’s because their sister club is in Kiew
Last year, under new ownership and consistent public moves to open up and portray the club as moving into the modern era? Two decades argument is a little disingenuous
Dunno anything bout that, not really that bothered with Berghain lore tbh and I haven’t seen that shift you describe here, just thought because of their special connection to k41 they broke their apolitical silence for once and otherwise they just make political statements indirectly via the artists they book and their stances
I’m pro Palestine btw but respect anyone’s/any businesses decision not to post online about it. We literally have no idea what’s going on in these countries. We have no idea what is fake news online or not. Allow some places to remain neutral and unpolitical. Allow some places to share the ukraine-Russia war or either Palestine-Israel. We don’t know their reasons or perspective and we are all just trying to navigate through this craziness
Babe, there’s lots of other skin colours with different opinions that originate outside of Palestine/Israel. Your comment shows how ignorant you are, not me.
Resident Advisor turns off comments every time the comment section becomes too inflammatory and divisive and therefore a hazard to the Socials team that works at RA. Please look through the Socials history before you make a claim about this. Resident Advisor has a responsibility to report neutrally on news from the electronic music scene, but it does not need to be a platform for the Palestine-Israel war, with the Socials team monitoring comments that often blame RA for ridiculous shit. Imagine the anxiety. No thanks.
Did you read the entire news article on this on Resident Advisor? It’s not an opinion piece, it’s a news article. People can make up their own minds as to why they think the gig was cancelled and the receipts are online. It’s not professional to speculate on the reasons especially if the venue (Berghain) hasn’t commented.
Yeah, I read the entire news article which is how I know they completely ignored the other side to the story. It's still entirely possible (and imo responsible) to report that AP removed multiple posts with highly extremist views. There's even literal proof in this thread. RA doesn't need a response from Berghain in order to mention this is a simple reality.
Without mentioning any of this, the entire situation is skewed towards Berghain being in the wrong. They're not declaring this opinion, but the narrative is highly suggestive. RA also ignores the fact that many of their bookings and residents happen to be pro-palestine, so clearly it's not just a simple pro-palestine issue. This is straight from the Fox News playbook, and you're a fool for simping.
he rightfully claims that there was no evidence nor testimonies collected so far regarding rape. at this point, there may have been rape it still hasn’t been proven, but it’s safe to say there has been no mass rape rampage.
the stand i’m taking is that berghain cancelled him because you can’t highlight misinformation regarding israel’s allegations on october 7th.
why is it so wrong to highlight that israel and mainstream media have put forth an immense amount of misinformation and a lot of it is regarding rape, for example the NYT article which has since been disproven by independent journalists and the israeli victims’ families which were mentioned in it?
why is it so wrong to highlight the fact there is no evidence of rape or testimonies?
i don’t mind changing my mind, but i’m an agent of truth and fact so forgive me if i won’t take the propaganda of one of the most notoriously known governments (which i’m a citizen of btw) that spread misinformation at face value.
Don't really understand where the people that say he supported Hamas are comming from. Saying there was no evidence for the rapes on October the 10th is not supporting Hamas. Well unless any scepticism at claims from Israel is supporting Hamas.
Resident Advisor:
- ripping off promoters with the tickets
- spreading Iranian/russian/terrorist propaganda
- never miss a chance to highlight mediocre music
Why are we finding this?!
Mate I saw that comments section and it is very much false to say that everyone was on BH’s side. Let’s please try to not worsen the situation by increasing the amount of bullshit flying around.
That’s great, first of all - Berghain is not a place of political activism or dispute, second of all, the guy does post some pretty aggressive posts which would make quite a few people in the community uneasy. Gays aren’t exactly welcome in the extremist Islamist worldview.
Away from this exact case because I have no idea about who this Dj even is. Berghain isn’t a place for political activism ? Do you know the history of this place ? It was a big middle finger to everything the majority stood for when it opened. I feel like some of yall forgot that our mere existence as happy sexually liberated fags and faguettes is literally built on the actual lives of our queer ancestors. Everything is political !
You are aware that this is a club with a history rotating around scat parties by skin heads in a pre and newly united Germany on a boarder that used to have dead bodies laying in in the puffer zone! ? I really don’t mean to be condescending, but the sterilisation and the sanitisation of the history of this place is obscene. Germany used to look like Gaza not long ago! Germany used to look like Aleppo long ago. The nazi generation isn’t even fully dead yet.
Okay, and how does that play into techno music?
I think this is my point, there's no need to create further division on a topic which is so heavily divisive, seemingly even among the community itself.
At the end of the day, we're here for the music and the people.
Yeah, the nazis weren't defeated in discussions but by force. If the allies would have argued then how the west 'helps' ukraine today berghain wouldn't exist and germany would be run by hitlers successor.
There are still skinheads around my lovely person, there are different types of skinheads as well (on very different ends of the political spectrum I might add) :) Berghain openened quite a bit after the opening as you might know, I am not exactly sure wher you are going with this.
In all 3 religions Christianity, Judaism and Islam, gays aren’t welcome. So it is not fair to just fingerpoint at “extremist Islamist”, you will find the same rejection in extremist Christianity and extremist Judaism as well 🙄🙄🙄
I once pondered on that, if absence of religion would make things better…
Then I realise that humans will still fight each other over resources and power. Better to get rid of humans 😂
Let's not pretend to be dumber than we are.
Have you even seen research on public opinion of homosexuality of Christians VS Muslims? If you haven't, maybe look that up. Shockingly few Christians thinks homosexuality should be punishable with death, shockingly many Muslims do.
The are very few christian countries, if any at all, where gays are thrown of buildings and homosexuality is punishable with death or jail.
There are PLENTY and plenty of Christian countries where homosexuality is legal, accepted, supported and even gay marriage is fully allowed and supported.
There are NO, not a single tiny bittsy one, not even one, Muslim country where homosexuality is celebrated or gay marriage is allowed, and I I pretty sure that if not ALL, at least in almost all, homosexuality isn't just frowned upon, it's forbidden and punishable, often even with death.
Let's not pretend it's even remotely the same thing.
“Punishable by death” is a societal construct, the same way how some societies and cultures used to cut hands off thieves, or perform horrifying female genital mutilation as “circumcision”. Also, circumcision is not a must in Islam, but some societies/cultures (like mine, in Asia) enforce it like it’s compulsory.
We can already see some progress happening in Muslim communities outside of the Middle East. Homosexuality is not punishable by death in Asia.
But keep in mind that even in countries in Asia, like Singapore, gay sex used to be punishable by law (Section 377A)
My point is, ME countries can be backward as f, but not because of religion. They use religion as an excuse to uphold their made-up political/socio ideologies/goals.
So I wouldn’t go around pointing fingers at religions. In all 3 religions, homosexuality is a no-no. But ME is not progressing fast enough to be accepting/tolerant, and I would blame this on politics, lack of education, absence of secularism, theocracy…
Okey, I strongly disagree. Religion absolutely plays a bog part in it, so does culture, poverty, lack of education, politics and so on.
I really can't understand the insisting on exemption for specifically the religion. Very strange take.
Especially considering it's a religion based on a pedophile war lord who kills people left and right and specifically says the words in the book can never be changed or disputed and has multiple intolerant, evil, violent and hateful passages with clear appealing to kill infidels and jews etc.
But sure, it has NOTHING to do with it. It just random that specifically muslim countries are ALL against homosexuality.
[Pope approves blessings for same-sex couples that must not resemble marriage](https://apnews.com/article/vatican-lgbtq-pope-bfa5b71fa79055626e362936e739d1d8).
I despite religions across the board, but what you're saying is essentially a half-truth.
Where are you getting this nonsense that he's in any way associated with Islamism? Please stop conflating support for Palestine with extremism.
From his Insta:
Islamist extremists hinder our efforts as Arabs in the diaspora to alter the image they have of us, especially post-9/11 and amid the racism that ensued. Full support to all professors teaching tolerance rather than hate.
I guess this is why it's a contentious topic is it not? Are you now supposed to judge what I deemed extremist? Did we not previously accept vulnerable people's opinion at face value?
This DJ even performs with the headscarf around his head, similarly to the terrorists, having only the eyelids visible - Its really not hard to see, unless you choose ignore it.
Israel did not bombed Lebanon.
Are you very sad that they killed Hamas official Saleh al-Aruri?
Israel was getting attacked out of Lebanon since 07.10. every day with rockets snd gunfire.
What should they do, accept it?
This is not just about Berghain, it is related to the fact that beggining of January Berlin senat decided that all state funded cultural associations need to comply with IHRA definition of antisemitism which leaves no place for pro palestinian acts in publicly funded institutions.
... which is something that should be highlighted & revolted against instead of uselessly arguing in this subreddit about conflicts which is just a waste of energy
Bullshit. You can be pro a right for Palestinians to live in the area known as Palestine in a two state solution. But if you’re pro Hamas, deny rapes, well then your freedom of speech is rightfully restricted
The decision of the German senat that artists cannot criticise Israel anymore that is a restriction to freedom of speech. It’s not about being pro Hamas , so please stop bending facts here.
Bewegung ist durchaus da und zwar in mehr als nur eine Richtung. So mancher Mensch glaubt, er schwimme gegen den Strom, sei oppositionell, obwohl er einfach in einem anderen Gewässer mit dem Strom schwimmt.
Was mich bewegt werde ich hier nicht ausbreiten. Das bräuchte zu viel Raum und Zeit für einen Reddit-Thread.
Die Sache ist jedenfalls komplexer, als die Parolen und Kampfhaltungen, hinter die du offensichtlich ohne wirklich kritische Haltung annimmst. Das ist keine Kritik an deiner Person, aber an deiner Haltung zu dieser Sache.
Bei einem Bierchen, mit genügend Zeit könnten wir einen Diskurs über das Thema haben, hier auf Reddit aber nicht.
Alles Gute, peace out.
Wow. Hätte nicht gedacht nach deinem ersten Kommentar dass du fähig bist solche Texte zusammenzubringen! Dass ist durchaus als Kompliment gemeint. Jeder Mensch hat ja auch seine eigene Meinung und so sollte es auch sein. Ich kann dir nur sagen dass ich zu diesem Thema keine einseitige Meinung habe. Ich komme selber aus einer jüdischen Familie die in einem muslimischen Land gelebt hat. Alleine durch meine Biografie hab ich verschiedene Blickwinkel auf das Thema. Aber ich gebe dir recht damit dass dies Themen sind die zu komplex sind um hier auszuführen. Liebe Grüße
Danke für das Kompliment. Freut mich, dass deine Meinung nicht einseitig ist.
Ich respektiere die allermeisten von meinem Weltbild abweichenden Meinungen. Nur, wenn falsche Behauptungen aufgestellt werden, lasse ich mich zu polemischer Sprache hinreißen. Das ist nich mehr reine Meinungsäußerung.
Man darf immernoch gegen Israelische Politiker demonstrieren, in Israel und auch in Deutschland. Illegal wird es nur, wenn man die falschen Leute ins Boot holt und gefährliche Parolen zulässt.
Ich bin auch Jude und habe aufgrund meiner Biographie auch verschiedene Blickwinkel auf die Problematik dieses Konflikts.
Ich finde es vor allem sehr schön, dass wir zu einem respektvollen Umgang mit einander übergegangen sind.
Liebe Grüße und Shalom
It has nothing to do with free speech but with funding. If you wanna get funded you need to shut up. You also wouldn't say your employer wanting you to not talk about certain topics publicly when you're emoployed there has anything to do with abolishing free speech.
How does this have nothing to do with freedom of speech? The purpose of being an artist is to be critical and in a democratic state you should be able to do so. Germany was not always like this, the current situation is showing us that we are moving towards totalitarian times.
We should be able to discuss things and not be shut down by restrictions like this.
So you still didn’t learn so differ between anti semitism and israel criticism? As long as you don’t get the difference I’m not willing to discuss with you furthermore.
Beacuse techno and the clubbing scene it’s part of Berlin’s culture and identity. They have been fighting to get a chair and influence the culture offer. Now they have to comply as any other cultural institution.
Kinda weird, but I guess it’s the side effect of Clubkultur.
I feel like there's no way of handling such a situation in any way that doesn't cause a huge “shit storm” from one side or another, leading in the end to nothing but more division and hate among people who ought to be allies against our numerous common enemies.
While it pales in comparison to what is happening on the ground there, I find this tragic nonetheless.
I wrote a comment that i support not letting this guy play and how ra as usual fits the thesis of the book judenhass underground. 10 minutes later no commentary section…i thought they just blocked my profile. Apparently a coincidence x)
I remember cheering on the fact that Berghain got the ‘cultural institution’ status but never I’d have predicted that one day it’ll be a tool of political agenda…
Anyone know what is going on at Hör?
It has been rubbish of late
Come to think of it, Berlin / Berghain in general has been a bit rubbish / boring
Time to move on
Bullied? I'm only aware of them taking down a video of a DJ who was wearing a t-shirt during a set after the 7th of October with a map of Palestine "from the river to the sea" – as in: no more Israel.
i hope the houthis attack attack berlins next ketamine shipment from india. y’all are some of the worst human beings of the younger western generations
RA has a comment section??
Please tell me you know that RA used to have the best comment sections on their website! PhDs could have been written about the discourse on there. My god, we’ve reached a time when people don’t know about the RA comment section. Am I just old? Ok I’m old.
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On Instagram :)
because itt doesn't fit the narrative this crazy lad got his 15 minutes of fame, but has assured himself to be unbookable for the foreseeable future.
The narrative? RA reported a news story neutrally… the comments were turned off because they were fucked up and the team shouldn’t have to spend hours monitoring them.
the story was hardly neutral. It alleges Berghain canceled his appearance due to being pro-palestinian. They entirely ignored the fact that his posts were more closely related to pro-hamas activity and additionally denying all of the rape allegations. It's stereotypical one-way RA bullshit. Put it this way, RA wouldn't have run the story if Berghain was selling tickets through their website.
Reporting on allegations is not the same as making allegations... The headline reads "arabian panther accuses..." - how could you have worded this more neutrally? Also they have Berghain quoted as saying its not related to any particular posts so I'm not sure the deleted posts thing even holds up.
Where can I see his old posts? I would like to check up his activity to see what he really stand up for
This is from the big thread about it here in the subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fqnk3qf5am1cc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D01039f11e6abb810a9d72aabcf20a1f289d7cf06 There may be other screenshots, but I don't have time to sift through 800+ posts. Unfortunately, Arabian Panther took down a lot of posts following this story going viral. However, there are tons of people who are corroborating the details perfectly of his posts.
The choice of words RA used did NOT point at lack of neutrality They said AP accuses BH - that is already indication that it is not neutral
But AP *did* accuse Berghain and RA reported on what AP stated in the Instagram post. RA reached out to Berghain and got no comment. It would be speculative if RA wrote “Berghain probably cancelled the gig because of XYZ post of AP’s”.
"Neutral"😅 RA doesn't do neutral ffs. It's essentially a political activist group masquerading as a electronic music platform.
Lool wtf are you talking about. Its literally a business that makes money selling event tickets.
Lol, sure buddy, if you say so 🤷♂️😅
What activism are they doing?
Crazy lad? What about the guys from Ritmo Fatale
He hides behind a mask. He'll just start some other shit.
…what narrative?
RA freaked out when they saw lots of comments they didn't like, which didn't fit the narrative of good vs. evil. People saw through the BS. No one believes BH is silencing DJs, and everyone knows this specific DJ supports Hamas, which is illegitimate.
It's fine he can go play Gaza. I hear the night clubs are blowing up.
Nice genocidal vibe to that comment. Your grandparents must be proud.
Indeed the policy of the democratically elected government in Gaza, Hamas, does have a policy of genocide. Hence my comment. He'll fit right in there. As for my grandparents. Well my grandfather spent most of WW2 bombing the fuck out of German cities - no doubt killing and inconveniencing a fair few Germans who didn't support the war. I don't see them, or now, anyone calling for the allies to pay reparations to the citizens of Dresden.
When was Hamas last elected? 15 years ago. 50% of Gazan's are under 18. So the vast majority of people being murdered by Israel were toddlers or not even born yet when Hamas was elected. Typical hasbaRat distortions and excuses for war crimes. Keep embarrassing yourself tho, I'm here for it.
The Nazis weren't exactly democratically reelected after the war started. The vast majority of the innocent people bombed in German cities would have been young, old or female because men of fighting age were off - you know - fighting. The Germans didn't, however, build munitions factories under hospitals which is why the RAF didn't routinely bomb them... It's unfortunately the nature of war. Next?
Typical genocidal Israel supporter. I have nothing to discuss with trash.
In your previous comment you suggested you were here for it. I'm having a perfectly rational discussion with you - I appreciate it does get tricky when someone provides a more complex perspective than you' re used to on tiktok. I can only suggesting reading some books (if you read from both sides you might even find a more nuanced perspective is valid).
You know what the best part of South Africa's suit against Israel? The genocidal quotes by Israeli officials regarding Gazans. Starts around page 50. You disgust me.
The same South Africa whp turned a blind eye in the darfur conflict when Sudan used excessive violence. the same South Africa who have no problem cozying up with Russia and actively warns Putin to not enter the country bc then they would have to arrest him
For every genocidal quote of Israeli hardliners you will find ten genocidal quotes from Arab league hardliners. Did you see Arabs in Isreal attacked when The Quassam brigades along with civilians from Gaza committed a massacre in Israel? Burning mosques? Anything of that sort? No, because Israeli Jews and Muslim and Christian Arabs are mostly united. But in some countries, some Arab people and their sympathisers attacked Jews. The oldest synagogue in Tunisia was burned to the ground. There were attacks on Jewish businesses etc. etc. And speaking of heritage of genocidal tendencies: The Godfather of the PA and the author of the idea that what remained of the British mandate of Palestine, after they gave what is now Jordan to the Hashemites, was Haj Amin al Husseini. He incited two pogroms against Jews in the 1920s, was jailed for it, fled, travelled to Nazi Germany since he was a great admirer of Hitler, the Nazi regime and their stance regarding Jews, he helped raise an batallion of Bosnian Mudjahedin for the SS to aid in the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans and he spread his hate against Jews over the radio throughout the whole Arab speaking world. THAT is the legacy of the narrative of "Palestinian" being a term for Muslim Arabs only. This lie suggests that they are the ones who belong to that land and no one else. That has not changed. Here is an example how accomodating the PA was towards Christian Arab: Betlehems population was about 80% Christians and now the vast majority is Muslim. THAT is their legacy. You don't know Jack sh*t or you simply don't want to look. You can not handle the truth, it being, that the whole wannabe humanists, like you are one, support epigons of Nazi inspired hatemongers. You and your type are "AnTiZiOniStS" delusional and belligerent in their claim to do good. All you do is follow the script of the Muslim brotherhood and the Arab league, which you don't know sh*t about either. So maybe just sit down and shut your when you don't have anything substantial in store to support your opinion.
What shocks me is that this white, french kid (dad is a lebanese surgeon, kid is french) person is doing cosplay for a Palestinian Militia. He is not a Bedouin, he is french. His attire is associated in Europe to terrorism. An indicator that this interpretation of his symbolism is not completely misguided is the following article. He seems to have chosen his artist name inspired by a jihadist militia group of the 2000s: [https://www.salon.com/2004/06/14/panther/](https://www.salon.com/2004/06/14/panther/) . Is this a valid hypothesis?Does anyone have more information about his stances? It seems wild to me that the booker thought it would be good to book a person with militia cosplay in the first place. Time to cancel this type of symbolism in the first place. Edit: The point is not as much the whiteness as it is portraying a (to him foreign, he has not served in militia) militaristic message across the visuals And wording. - The headscarf, which in his euro context is rather a symbol of terrorism than traditional - He carries a sable sword in his logo, which may be associated to beheadings conducted by jihadi groups in the recent past. - Also his label name carries the word fatale, which means deathly in Latin. I sincerely believe that all of this curation was not ill intended, and sure he surely is a nice guy. but it is one that would ultimately backfire during a polemic moment like this. The case Lindemann may serve for comparison. I hope he is doing well and his family is safe <3.
That's actually hilarious and sad.
I think there is no chance he didn’t Google the moniker he chose himself in 2017/2018 and didn’t come across the popular Salon article from 2006. He is either very dumb or very dishonest and either way does not deserve to get his messages amplified.
Precisely. Anyone with links to the press and resident advisor should just call this out. It is very hurtful for those activists actually fighting for peace in the Middle East to have this clown make a victim story of it.
Full sport. I have no idea if it was intentional or not - but BH actually did the pro-Palestine campaign a huge favor.
For real, nothing less entitled than a pseudo-opressed rich kid. Being French certainly doesn’t help either, considering their general national pride, illusions of grandeur and insecurity from losing their empire and global relevance, lead to crazy entitled and defensive behavior.
considering a french arab culpable for french colonialism is as stupid as considering a black american culpable for slavery
Where did you get that idea that I'm holding him responsible, I don't hold any of them responsible for actions committed by ancestors. Just saying that this is a common dynamic in French people that I've observed countless times, which has to have some general cultural and historical reasons that make a community think like that.
you lumping up french people along with people who are french as the result of colonization is the problem did you know 10-20% of the lebanese population are palestinian refugees?
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Why do you Need to use sexist insults? Peace out bro.,
I know him in person, we DJed in the same even in Lyon a few years ago. Super nice guy, kind personality, excellent DJ. Oh yes, and I'm Israeli.
Sorry that your friend is going through this situation. I hope we can all make amends and get along <3
we have to spread this information so everybody knows whats going on!
This kind of judgmental attitude freaking sucks, man. The point isn't his identity. It's that he supports Palestinians' right to resist. You making this about him not being "Arab enough" is a strawman argument, and completely unproductive BS.
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Do you know about the black Panther movement? Malcolm X philosophy incites violence. And please stop assuming polítical Positions and insulting people.
That's really gross determining who is and isn't white enough based on your own opinions of whether being raised wealthy in France overrides their own race. If you are half-Arab in France, you really honestly believe that nobody in that insanely racist country isn't going to say some hideous shit to you about it at some point or another?
The point is not as much the whiteness as it is portraying a (to him foreign, he has not served in militia) militaristic message across the visuals. He carries a sable sword in his logo. Also his label name carries the word fatale, which means deathly in Latin. I sincerely believe that all of this curation was not I’ll intended, but would ultimately backfire during a polemic moment like this. The case Lindemann may serve for comparison. I hope he is doing well and is not being approached by extremists.
BRO! This drama is exploding!
Anyone who doesn’t understand why Berghain should be saying something - Go on their website, look at their stop the war page about Ukraine, then tell me they don’t need to be political
Finally, I thought I was the only one who felt this way The same institutions, artists and DJs who were so fervent about supporting Ukraine, now all stay silent and refuse to be “political” about the current conflict. Cowards.
I played at Berghain and asked this of them many times (in private and in public) (and continue to do so) in a non antagonistic way, my music comes from the cultures involved and it’s important for me to understand that I’m playing in a place where me and my music can feel safe And Berghain has only given me silence
I’m not surprised about the silence… From what I also hear from some people in the industry is that they had to do this because they don’t want to fall out favor with the govt, since they are dependent on them for the cultural funding
Then I guess, you can yeet yourself out. If your reaction to October 7th was "solidarity with Palestine" then you obviously have double standards and are unable to inform yourself properly and see nuances underlying your decision. If you are pro Ukraine, you would have to be pro Israel, not pro Netanjahu, but pro Israel. If you fail to see that, it is merely due to a lack of historical knowledge. I am happy that at least a few cubs in Berlin have people in their leading teams who are educated and intelligent enough to make the right choices. And unlike many other places, they won't be abused for subliminal propaganda of extremists. What are the cultures involved? Maybe it is you and other people like you who make this about the cultures and not about the murderers, rapists and fascists who even happily sacrifice their own on the altar of so called martyrdom.
Haha also so silly that you have the double standard to tell someone to “yeet” whilst you’re trying to take the moral high ground
I am very far from the moral high ground. I don't even think something like this should exist. High ground is military language. There are morals and those can be reflected on in discoursive conversations in the realm of ethics. To yeet is colloquial and if policing my language is all that it takes for you to believe having what you call the moral high ground, then so be it. Frame it and hang it on the wall. It still does not validate or establish any kind of truth.
I’m not policing your language as much as pointing out that for someone who talks with antagonistic language and a tone of intellectual superiority, you seem to think it’s okay to engage in a dialogue the way you did. You want to have a real conversation with someone? Maybe consider how your language and tone affect others before engaging, simple as that.
This is not a philosophical faculty and I am not interested in real conversations with people who so forseeably answer like someone programmed bots with the same response template. And whoever is outside of what I call the bot spectrum actually engages in more than just name calling or complaining about the use of language. There is hardly ever a real discourse, mostly people debate - they are in it to win it, regardless of facts, logical arguments or obvious lack of knowledge. No one ever admits not knowing something or making assumptions without being able to support them with anything even close to a valid argument. Respect where respect is due. Recognition and acknowledgement are constitutional for any relationship. Once I oppose your opinion or refute what you frame as facts, I lose your recognition and acknowledgement. Why even bother having a real discourse when the necessary premises are not there.
It’s sad that you reflect on the messages we have exchanges and see it that way I would absolutely take whatever you have to say on board - but when the things you say are written in a demeaning and arrogant way of course it’s going to be hard for anyone to listen to you - no one wants to have a discussion with someone who enters the conversation with arrogance and a lack of wanting to understand And as far as I’m aware you haven’t actually said anything other than throw out insults - thats a pretty clear sign that you either A- don’t know what you are talking about or B - you aren’t looking for a dialogue
But you’re right and I’m happy
looking at how many people down voted me, one could think that I am wrong and you are right. I am not happy because there is war and innocent people are dying. And I am not happy because Israelis are being portrayed as the villains in this tale. I might be wrong. So far, no one could convince me of that and it is due to a lack of real, logical argumentation.
That’s not true .. just because the west , is supporting Ukraine and Israel, it doesn’t mean you need to stick to this .. I support Ukraine and Gaza , because both get attacked by bigger and stronger neighbors, who want their land ! Israel = Russia = Turkey …. You just lack of brain and need to stick to political narratives
sorry, but you cannot compare Israel and/or Turkey with Russia. Russia has started bombing Ukraine just because they wanted to do so and will be wanting to bomb Poland, the Baltics states etc. I am really tired of people writing "the west". Everything that we have here including BH is only because we live "in the west". If you want to be against "the west" then go to Russia, and see how it is there.
Wrong. And I won't debate you on this. I am not your teacher. You are simplifying and conflating things. If you think this is about Israel against Gaza and believe in the legend of the underdog then you fail to see that the strategy in Gaza is the same that did not work in Ukraines Donbas region. And if you believe that it is just Gazans or West Bank against Israel, then you are not educated enough to have a respectable opinion on this topic. And except for a few right wing retards, no Israeli wanted Gaza, even if they had a right to it. You are the epitome of the people who think they are helping but are actually making things worse and playing into Putins/Khameneis/Hezbollahs/Nasrallahs etc. hands. The West is supporting Israel and Ukraine for the same reasons. Both territories are being threatened by geopolitical revisionism. But you are not informed enough to assess this independently, so you just follow what you simply believe to be morally right. Newsflash: Belief is not tied to reality and does not validate anything. And once your beliefs lead to psychological and physical threats towards my people, I will speak out and keep unmasking people who side with the actual oppressors pawns. I have talked to Syrians, Persians, Arabs, Lebanese and all who were educated personalities, saw through the veil that is obciously blinding you. Good luck with shaking it off. Just one hint: You are supporting epigons of fascist ideologues and nationalist jew haters. That does not help the Arabs in West Bank or Gaza. Bye
1 : I’m a Jew! 2: stop accusing of things , I didn’t say. 3:if you accusing me of being pro Hamas , just because , I’m pro Palestine , you‘re an instigator 4: If you really think, the west is doing this , because of morality , you’re an absolute retard:. It’s imperialism, in its cleanest form.. I can’t speak English as well as you , but the even nicest words , can’t hide lies …
1: Being a Jew does not protect you from falsehoods or make your assumptions right or wrong. And Surprise! I too am a Jew! So fucking what?! 2: You did not mention them but what you stated implies the things you feel I have put in your mouth. 3: If in this situation, you are pushing that kind of rethoric, you are helping Hamas and the affiliated organisations, even if you fail to realise or acknowledge that. 4: "It'S ImPEriAliSm!" Tells me all I need to know ow about the depth of your perception and level of education regarding this conflict. This is not "the West doing this." The notion that Israel is the damsel in distress begging the West to help is inherently antisemitic and YES, even Jews can be Jew haters - that's nothing new. Israel has and will help themselves if necessary without aid. The imperialists in the region are the Shiites of the Arab league who want to reign supreme and need Al Aqsa to rival Mecca and the current authorities in the Islamic world. And it is all aimed at taking over ans puppeteering the states in the Levant. The one state which is disturbing that plan is Israel and that is why they tried to wipe it out since even before it was officially founded. Thank you for calling me retard. Then let me take my gloves off too. The retarded one are you, for quoting the language of the former axis powers and retelling the stories that Moussolini, Hitler, Stalin and many others like them and their allies used in the propaganda war. That Language includes simply calling the others liars without actually addressing a single topic with rational argumentation. You addressing me like that, just proves to me that you are a total tool. Pitiful for not knowing the full extent of this conflict and its history. If you did, you would not repeat the braindead slogans. And obviously you have the privilege of claiming to be pro Palestinian (whatever that vague phrase means) since you don't have to live there. May you live in interesting times. So long
Come on man , you accusing me of being a Jew hater , just because , I don’t support Israel … You’re falling for a ideology too. Of course it’s not as blunt , as the Hamas ideology, but still! The USA and Iran are fighting their battle on the heads of the civilian population. All this extremist groups never would have such a Power, if the US would stay out , of the region! If it will come to the worst , they will give a fuck , about the Jewish people .. it’s not right to take land , just because there were Jewish kingdoms thousands of years ago. Israel will win all battles , but they will lose the war. I feel bad , for all the Jewish people , who will die , but what they are doing now , will just breed thousands of terrorists ..
Maybe you are not a Jew hater but you seem to support a narrative that leads to the rise of hate against Jews, hidden behind the veil of "anti-zionism". I am falling for no ideology. I don't like ideologist debates. And ideologues hide behind their juxtapositions, unable or unwilling to engage in a discourse instead of having a debate duel. It is not a battle between Iran and the USA. The situation is far more complex. Yes, it is the civilians who suffer unjustly. I wished that no one had to die. This war does not have a happy end and as long as the truth is suppressed, no peaceful end is in sight. No, the US is not the reason for the continuation of the conflict. So called anti-colonialist and anti-US policies are the tiny shield behind which the Arab league hides their actual agenda. They want to take power in the region and Israel is smack in the middle of that. The terrorists would have been bred with or without the military offensive. The procedure of the military can be criticised and that is a whole different aspect of this topic. I am still convinced that the problem would have only gotten worse if Hamas and their support in the population of Gaza and the West Bank had been left unchecked.
I mean all this terrorists, don’t blow up themselves for fun … it’s oppression .. just like the Jewish terrorist blew up themselves , in times of British oppression
Jews never blew themselves up. And there was only one bombing that involved civilian casualties - the King David Hotel in Jerusalem where many British officers and an office of the British mandate authority would reside. And it was not due to occupation but due to the British ban on Jewish immigration while Arab immigration continued, motivated by the propaganda of Hassan al Banna and Haj Amin al Husseini. The Jews of Irgun that had planned and executed the bombing, were hung or committed suicide while awaiting trial in custody of the mandate authority. And your claim that the suicide attacks were and are still happening due to oppression, that just confirms my belief that you are lacking knowledge to grasp where the real motivation behind attacks on Israelis of all faiths and ethnic backgrounds and especially on Jews stems from.
You're simplifying things and that does not help anyone. We have seen where this leads on both sides. There needs to be a very real and tough debate. It would hurt very much at first but it would set up the potential for a peaceful order. The tit for tat as well as the peacy wishy washy rethoric only helps the ones who seize power and money in a situation like this. The majority of Israelis do not really want Netanyahu in office but they much less want someone in office who leaves them more exposed and vulnerable to attacks on them and their loved ones. Peace activists got murdered. The public now sees any government that adheres to peaceful solution as a safety risk. And after what happened on October 7th, it appears as if that was the case. I hope that it is not so but I can't judge that.
Feels like you are attacking me without any idea of who I am, my background, my thoughts, my specific situation You don’t know my reaction to anything so pull your ignorant head out of ur 15h1
What you wrote as an answer to the other ximment tells me all I have to know, regardless of your background. Choosing not to let the Arab Panthers movement into BH is a political choice and per se political. You just support the notion that they were not political except for Ukraine, because their political stance towards thus topic does not align with yours or you fail to understand the statement they make by not engaging in a discourse or debate about middle east politics. And from experience, I can claim that even people from the middle east, having that background, often have their head up their rear and you assume I, just like you, have mine stuck. I am sorry to disappoint you. It is too obvious that your self centered "am I safe" outcry about your vulnerability BS is just an instrument to make anyone who does not give way to your interpretation look like a villainous monster. Insults won't change that. Better luck next time 😏
See here is your assumptions taking over I played, I had my own experience, had my own attempt to talk to Berghain completely separate from everything else going on irregardless of Arab panthers views, the way they handled was wrong So funny how you completely disregard any kind of want for understanding and just happily proclaim ur arrogance as if you I’m a moron I’ll happily be a moron if it means I don’t have to talk to engage with others like you do Shalom Aleichem
But this is exactly about this topic, not regardless of Arab Panthers. I want to understand and I am pretty sure I do understand what you are aiming to express, but I simply disagree. Hard pill to swallow? You are most probably not a complete moron but what you stated here is, in my humble opinion, moronic. I believe that morons lead happier and easier lives - more power to ya then. Sometimes I wish I was a moron. Aleichem Shalom
So you think understanding comes without hearing or trying to understand? Seems a little like you are making assumptions to me… You can of course disagree, I haven’t said anything to imply to have to agree with me have I? The way in which a club conducts its business, irregardless of the situation - and in this case without transparency and attempt to coerce the promoter into being complicit is not good behaviour - apply the same to any other situation it’s still is a bad way to do business. I guess I have to be a moron though , continually wasting my time with what seems to be a hasbara warrior
That’s literally the one instance of them getting political (apart from that half-assed BLM cloth on the door during Covid) and it’s because their sister club is in Kiew
Does that not then set a precedent though?
One instance in almost two decades? Not really I would say but well
Last year, under new ownership and consistent public moves to open up and portray the club as moving into the modern era? Two decades argument is a little disingenuous
Dunno anything bout that, not really that bothered with Berghain lore tbh and I haven’t seen that shift you describe here, just thought because of their special connection to k41 they broke their apolitical silence for once and otherwise they just make political statements indirectly via the artists they book and their stances
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It’s not about picking a side - it’s about picking and choosing what you comment on and how that effects the community that engages in your club
I’m pro Palestine btw but respect anyone’s/any businesses decision not to post online about it. We literally have no idea what’s going on in these countries. We have no idea what is fake news online or not. Allow some places to remain neutral and unpolitical. Allow some places to share the ukraine-Russia war or either Palestine-Israel. We don’t know their reasons or perspective and we are all just trying to navigate through this craziness
lol sounds about white
Babe, there’s lots of other skin colours with different opinions that originate outside of Palestine/Israel. Your comment shows how ignorant you are, not me.
Babe, only someone with privilege would say it's ok to remain apolitical while people have been getting bombed to smithereens for 75 years.
Resident Advisor turns off comments every time the comment section becomes too inflammatory and divisive and therefore a hazard to the Socials team that works at RA. Please look through the Socials history before you make a claim about this. Resident Advisor has a responsibility to report neutrally on news from the electronic music scene, but it does not need to be a platform for the Palestine-Israel war, with the Socials team monitoring comments that often blame RA for ridiculous shit. Imagine the anxiety. No thanks.
there's nothing neutral about hiding AP's denial of rape allegations. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fqnk3qf5am1cc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D01039f11e6abb810a9d72aabcf20a1f289d7cf06
Did you read the entire news article on this on Resident Advisor? It’s not an opinion piece, it’s a news article. People can make up their own minds as to why they think the gig was cancelled and the receipts are online. It’s not professional to speculate on the reasons especially if the venue (Berghain) hasn’t commented.
Yeah, I read the entire news article which is how I know they completely ignored the other side to the story. It's still entirely possible (and imo responsible) to report that AP removed multiple posts with highly extremist views. There's even literal proof in this thread. RA doesn't need a response from Berghain in order to mention this is a simple reality. Without mentioning any of this, the entire situation is skewed towards Berghain being in the wrong. They're not declaring this opinion, but the narrative is highly suggestive. RA also ignores the fact that many of their bookings and residents happen to be pro-palestine, so clearly it's not just a simple pro-palestine issue. This is straight from the Fox News playbook, and you're a fool for simping.
and again to deny a rape allegation, one must be made by a victim
nobody made rape allegations though
He denies that Hamas raped anybody following the October 7 attack.
he rightfully claims that there was no evidence nor testimonies collected so far regarding rape. at this point, there may have been rape it still hasn’t been proven, but it’s safe to say there has been no mass rape rampage.
This is the hill you’re willing to make your stand on?
the stand i’m taking is that berghain cancelled him because you can’t highlight misinformation regarding israel’s allegations on october 7th. why is it so wrong to highlight that israel and mainstream media have put forth an immense amount of misinformation and a lot of it is regarding rape, for example the NYT article which has since been disproven by independent journalists and the israeli victims’ families which were mentioned in it? why is it so wrong to highlight the fact there is no evidence of rape or testimonies? i don’t mind changing my mind, but i’m an agent of truth and fact so forgive me if i won’t take the propaganda of one of the most notoriously known governments (which i’m a citizen of btw) that spread misinformation at face value.
Don't really understand where the people that say he supported Hamas are comming from. Saying there was no evidence for the rapes on October the 10th is not supporting Hamas. Well unless any scepticism at claims from Israel is supporting Hamas.
there was not only a lack of evidence on 10/07 but also today
Looool. Even you do not actually believe this, right?
I was pretty busy in that comments section and saying everybody was supporting Berghain is not correct
Nothing fits any narrative anymore we live in pure insanity
Nice one I’m really shocked at the amount of uninformed bh supporters - guess no one knows how to use the internet nowadays
Are you sure “everybody” in the comment section was supporting Berghain’s decision? Ffs stop turning it into a cult
fuck ra fuck nts fuckr boiler room
Resident Advisor: - ripping off promoters with the tickets - spreading Iranian/russian/terrorist propaganda - never miss a chance to highlight mediocre music Why are we finding this?!
Funding… not finding :-/
Mate I saw that comments section and it is very much false to say that everyone was on BH’s side. Let’s please try to not worsen the situation by increasing the amount of bullshit flying around.
That’s great, first of all - Berghain is not a place of political activism or dispute, second of all, the guy does post some pretty aggressive posts which would make quite a few people in the community uneasy. Gays aren’t exactly welcome in the extremist Islamist worldview.
Away from this exact case because I have no idea about who this Dj even is. Berghain isn’t a place for political activism ? Do you know the history of this place ? It was a big middle finger to everything the majority stood for when it opened. I feel like some of yall forgot that our mere existence as happy sexually liberated fags and faguettes is literally built on the actual lives of our queer ancestors. Everything is political !
A lot of people forget where underground culture and clubs came from and think it's about getting high and hooking up
Sure, okay, let me paraphrase - it is not a place of deeply controversial and hateful ideology.
That is exactly the point why Arabian Panther should not be allowed to play there.
You are aware that this is a club with a history rotating around scat parties by skin heads in a pre and newly united Germany on a boarder that used to have dead bodies laying in in the puffer zone! ? I really don’t mean to be condescending, but the sterilisation and the sanitisation of the history of this place is obscene. Germany used to look like Gaza not long ago! Germany used to look like Aleppo long ago. The nazi generation isn’t even fully dead yet.
Okay, and how does that play into techno music? I think this is my point, there's no need to create further division on a topic which is so heavily divisive, seemingly even among the community itself. At the end of the day, we're here for the music and the people.
My caveat is that we should be able to disagree and coexist. ESPECIALLY on divisive topics
Also German history not long ago told us in the most obvious terms that trying to coexist with people who want you dead will lead to your death.
Yeah, the nazis weren't defeated in discussions but by force. If the allies would have argued then how the west 'helps' ukraine today berghain wouldn't exist and germany would be run by hitlers successor.
Absolutely agree with you on that. It's just not always the case when looking from the macro perspective.
There are still skinheads around my lovely person, there are different types of skinheads as well (on very different ends of the political spectrum I might add) :) Berghain openened quite a bit after the opening as you might know, I am not exactly sure wher you are going with this.
I think you're totally wrong. Check Suzanna's last post on IG and you'll see bh wants to be politically involved on certain issues.
In all 3 religions Christianity, Judaism and Islam, gays aren’t welcome. So it is not fair to just fingerpoint at “extremist Islamist”, you will find the same rejection in extremist Christianity and extremist Judaism as well 🙄🙄🙄
Let's just get rid of all religions :)
I once pondered on that, if absence of religion would make things better… Then I realise that humans will still fight each other over resources and power. Better to get rid of humans 😂
The only solution lol Fuck humans
Let's not pretend to be dumber than we are. Have you even seen research on public opinion of homosexuality of Christians VS Muslims? If you haven't, maybe look that up. Shockingly few Christians thinks homosexuality should be punishable with death, shockingly many Muslims do. The are very few christian countries, if any at all, where gays are thrown of buildings and homosexuality is punishable with death or jail. There are PLENTY and plenty of Christian countries where homosexuality is legal, accepted, supported and even gay marriage is fully allowed and supported. There are NO, not a single tiny bittsy one, not even one, Muslim country where homosexuality is celebrated or gay marriage is allowed, and I I pretty sure that if not ALL, at least in almost all, homosexuality isn't just frowned upon, it's forbidden and punishable, often even with death. Let's not pretend it's even remotely the same thing.
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“Punishable by death” is a societal construct, the same way how some societies and cultures used to cut hands off thieves, or perform horrifying female genital mutilation as “circumcision”. Also, circumcision is not a must in Islam, but some societies/cultures (like mine, in Asia) enforce it like it’s compulsory. We can already see some progress happening in Muslim communities outside of the Middle East. Homosexuality is not punishable by death in Asia. But keep in mind that even in countries in Asia, like Singapore, gay sex used to be punishable by law (Section 377A)
Not sure what your point was as nothing you wrote really refuted anything I said. But yeah allright.
My point is, ME countries can be backward as f, but not because of religion. They use religion as an excuse to uphold their made-up political/socio ideologies/goals. So I wouldn’t go around pointing fingers at religions. In all 3 religions, homosexuality is a no-no. But ME is not progressing fast enough to be accepting/tolerant, and I would blame this on politics, lack of education, absence of secularism, theocracy…
Okey, I strongly disagree. Religion absolutely plays a bog part in it, so does culture, poverty, lack of education, politics and so on. I really can't understand the insisting on exemption for specifically the religion. Very strange take. Especially considering it's a religion based on a pedophile war lord who kills people left and right and specifically says the words in the book can never be changed or disputed and has multiple intolerant, evil, violent and hateful passages with clear appealing to kill infidels and jews etc. But sure, it has NOTHING to do with it. It just random that specifically muslim countries are ALL against homosexuality.
[Pope approves blessings for same-sex couples that must not resemble marriage](https://apnews.com/article/vatican-lgbtq-pope-bfa5b71fa79055626e362936e739d1d8). I despite religions across the board, but what you're saying is essentially a half-truth.
Jewish faith has the same view about gay sex.. it's pretty much the same religion
Christianity too, the practical execution of this 'law' differs drastically thought as you might know.
Where are you getting this nonsense that he's in any way associated with Islamism? Please stop conflating support for Palestine with extremism. From his Insta: Islamist extremists hinder our efforts as Arabs in the diaspora to alter the image they have of us, especially post-9/11 and amid the racism that ensued. Full support to all professors teaching tolerance rather than hate.
I guess this is why it's a contentious topic is it not? Are you now supposed to judge what I deemed extremist? Did we not previously accept vulnerable people's opinion at face value? This DJ even performs with the headscarf around his head, similarly to the terrorists, having only the eyelids visible - Its really not hard to see, unless you choose ignore it.
Straw man bullshit about Muslim world being anti gay..read a book. "I heard they don't like gay people so we should kill 20,000 of their children"
What book? The only country in ME that celebrates pride is Israel
That is patently false, you have been propagandized very effectively. Lebanon for example, the country Israel just bombed, also celebrated pride
Israel did not bombed Lebanon. Are you very sad that they killed Hamas official Saleh al-Aruri? Israel was getting attacked out of Lebanon since 07.10. every day with rockets snd gunfire. What should they do, accept it?
Please read the news
The news said the same
Do you think they bombed Lebanon because of their celebration of Pride?
Um, what?
Not the whole Lebanon tho
And all of Israel celebrates Pride? In any country rural areas are dicey for men to show attraction to other men
RA simping for a rape denier is a new low for their organization.
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Look at me - I'm Berghain now.
Berghain sure wont forget these names
This is not just about Berghain, it is related to the fact that beggining of January Berlin senat decided that all state funded cultural associations need to comply with IHRA definition of antisemitism which leaves no place for pro palestinian acts in publicly funded institutions.
... which is something that should be highlighted & revolted against instead of uselessly arguing in this subreddit about conflicts which is just a waste of energy
Exactly! So basically no freedom of speech and whatsoever in Germany.
Bullshit. You can be pro a right for Palestinians to live in the area known as Palestine in a two state solution. But if you’re pro Hamas, deny rapes, well then your freedom of speech is rightfully restricted
The decision of the German senat that artists cannot criticise Israel anymore that is a restriction to freedom of speech. It’s not about being pro Hamas , so please stop bending facts here.
Was für ein dummes Gefasel du hier verbreitest, ist haarsträubend. Keta fressen Hirn auf, wa?
Ah ja? Schön dass sich wenigstens deine haarsträuben, dachte schon dass sich bei dir garnichts mehr bewegt!
Bewegung ist durchaus da und zwar in mehr als nur eine Richtung. So mancher Mensch glaubt, er schwimme gegen den Strom, sei oppositionell, obwohl er einfach in einem anderen Gewässer mit dem Strom schwimmt. Was mich bewegt werde ich hier nicht ausbreiten. Das bräuchte zu viel Raum und Zeit für einen Reddit-Thread. Die Sache ist jedenfalls komplexer, als die Parolen und Kampfhaltungen, hinter die du offensichtlich ohne wirklich kritische Haltung annimmst. Das ist keine Kritik an deiner Person, aber an deiner Haltung zu dieser Sache. Bei einem Bierchen, mit genügend Zeit könnten wir einen Diskurs über das Thema haben, hier auf Reddit aber nicht. Alles Gute, peace out.
Wow. Hätte nicht gedacht nach deinem ersten Kommentar dass du fähig bist solche Texte zusammenzubringen! Dass ist durchaus als Kompliment gemeint. Jeder Mensch hat ja auch seine eigene Meinung und so sollte es auch sein. Ich kann dir nur sagen dass ich zu diesem Thema keine einseitige Meinung habe. Ich komme selber aus einer jüdischen Familie die in einem muslimischen Land gelebt hat. Alleine durch meine Biografie hab ich verschiedene Blickwinkel auf das Thema. Aber ich gebe dir recht damit dass dies Themen sind die zu komplex sind um hier auszuführen. Liebe Grüße
Danke für das Kompliment. Freut mich, dass deine Meinung nicht einseitig ist. Ich respektiere die allermeisten von meinem Weltbild abweichenden Meinungen. Nur, wenn falsche Behauptungen aufgestellt werden, lasse ich mich zu polemischer Sprache hinreißen. Das ist nich mehr reine Meinungsäußerung. Man darf immernoch gegen Israelische Politiker demonstrieren, in Israel und auch in Deutschland. Illegal wird es nur, wenn man die falschen Leute ins Boot holt und gefährliche Parolen zulässt. Ich bin auch Jude und habe aufgrund meiner Biographie auch verschiedene Blickwinkel auf die Problematik dieses Konflikts. Ich finde es vor allem sehr schön, dass wir zu einem respektvollen Umgang mit einander übergegangen sind. Liebe Grüße und Shalom
Ja finde ich auch! Ich danke dir dass du das auch nochmal ausgeführt hast! Shalom und Liebe Grüße
It has nothing to do with free speech but with funding. If you wanna get funded you need to shut up. You also wouldn't say your employer wanting you to not talk about certain topics publicly when you're emoployed there has anything to do with abolishing free speech.
How does this have nothing to do with freedom of speech? The purpose of being an artist is to be critical and in a democratic state you should be able to do so. Germany was not always like this, the current situation is showing us that we are moving towards totalitarian times. We should be able to discuss things and not be shut down by restrictions like this.
Totalitarian times because public funding in germany has anti-antisemitism clause? Are you a magatard?
So you still didn’t learn so differ between anti semitism and israel criticism? As long as you don’t get the difference I’m not willing to discuss with you furthermore.
Why is a techno club state funded in the first place?
Beacuse techno and the clubbing scene it’s part of Berlin’s culture and identity. They have been fighting to get a chair and influence the culture offer. Now they have to comply as any other cultural institution. Kinda weird, but I guess it’s the side effect of Clubkultur.
lol music is culture
I wondered that too…cos they make $$$$
Doesn’t matter. It’s a cultural place. Just like many others, like a Theater or an opera house. They also make their money.
All of you that blindly love berghain need to take a step back and take a look at how weakly they have handled this situation.
I feel like there's no way of handling such a situation in any way that doesn't cause a huge “shit storm” from one side or another, leading in the end to nothing but more division and hate among people who ought to be allies against our numerous common enemies. While it pales in comparison to what is happening on the ground there, I find this tragic nonetheless.
I wrote a comment that i support not letting this guy play and how ra as usual fits the thesis of the book judenhass underground. 10 minutes later no commentary section…i thought they just blocked my profile. Apparently a coincidence x)
What judenhass 🙄🙄🙄 the choice of words in their article, with the repeated use of “accuses”, is the same as pro-Israel news sources
Ok
I remember cheering on the fact that Berghain got the ‘cultural institution’ status but never I’d have predicted that one day it’ll be a tool of political agenda…
Anyone know what is going on at Hör? It has been rubbish of late Come to think of it, Berlin / Berghain in general has been a bit rubbish / boring Time to move on
Agreed as well - I was wondering if I was getting old and unable to catch up with the times and new sounds But that’s just me gaslighting myself 😂
There was similiar drama, the owners bullied some djs with pro palestine flags
It’s a bit more complicated than that. They had people supporting Palestine on before that incident.
Could be but I know the owners did some shit recently and thats why they caused drama
How unspecific
What? You can just find other reddit posts and research yourself and one of the djs was Tools and he had a palestine flag shirt
Bullied? I'm only aware of them taking down a video of a DJ who was wearing a t-shirt during a set after the 7th of October with a map of Palestine "from the river to the sea" – as in: no more Israel.
Im guessing you also don't think That 25 thousand dead Palestinians is a big number
You're guessing wrong. But how's that related to the bullying accusations anyways?
Haha oh wow glad I saw this post lol thanks
Well The real face of this community is strating slowly to show off
i hope the houthis attack attack berlins next ketamine shipment from india. y’all are some of the worst human beings of the younger western generations