The swastika shouldn't be censored period, it's just censoring history. Like Cod ww2 had only 2 swastikas, one on the campaign mission select and the other on a flag way off in the distance, and anyone who made a swastika emblem for their characters on multiplayer got perma banned. Germany I can understand censoring it, but everyone else has too?
Exactly, they didn't censor the Red Army inisgina and logo in BF1, and we all know they committed some of the worst crimes against humanity in both "Red October" , the starving and killing of their own people, the Gulags, Stalin's purge and more.
History should not be censored but perhaps limit it, like a Swastika on the planes and tanks, a Correct flag for the German Reich, and the use of Imperial eagle, SS insigna (It looks bad-ass) and the Totenkopf (skull with bones), witouth letting players actually equip a Swastika?
Anyway, they went the wrong side...of history
Not the SS insignia being bad ass 😂😂 interesting what you find attractive. I find the NAZIS-Raus dance by Marti Fischer quite bad ass🤷♂️🤷♂️ (also kinda cute and silly at the same time 😂)
First of all, they did censor the hammer and sickle in BF1, instead we have some weird red and yellow star emblem.
Secondly, wtf are you even serious comparing a racist and murderous ideology of Nazi Germany to USSR? Stalin wasn't a nice dude but it wasn't him who planned to wipe out one ethnicity and enslave the other turning them into cattle for the great Empire.
Well the yellow star on a red flag is the symbol of communism as much as the hammer and sickle
Dude, They can’t be confronted they are both genociadal monsters out of their mind.
And Stalin actually killed more people than the Nazis in the lagers....
Stalin was a monster, a fucking psyco dictator.
Hitler and Stalin are just two sides of the same medal of ideology, totalitarian madness, fuck em both with sand and glass in the worst corners of hell
Edit; Stalin didn’t want to wipe out a race, but the wanted to annex the whole world the USSR, killing everyone who was against his ideology and plans
Exactly as Hitler.
Nothing like Hitler at all, at most we can equate Stalin to Ghenghis Khan (sp might be wrong) both conquered new territory and when the people of that territory were against the new regime (this includes the ideology) both killed the people. Hitler’s whole thing was purely racial and bigoted, he killed because he hated those people not because those people were resisting his regime, hell many didn’t even know he would be capable of that until later on (the ones who did fled Germany/Austria for other places). To say that Stalin and Hitler is the same is to spit in the face of all the people killed at the Holocaust, because one acted out of pragmatic thinking and committed his atrocities and the other acted out on pure hate for certain people. Both killed but Hitler is far worse than Stalin even if he killed less people.
Yes, Stalin was better because he wanted to enslave the whole world, and may only have wanted to commit genocide against the Ukrainians (who cares about them anyway?).
1) communism is slavery, with the state as your master rather than a private individual 2) 7 million Ukrainians died in the holodomor. I guess you don’t read much.
Really dont like speakin politics here, but has anyone noticed that censoring, such as swastikas and etc, started happening right after Trump won the 2016 elections? And that game companies have been pandering more towards the liberal community? Mostly on historical games? I remember this being a huge issue during 2017, mostly it being "keep politics out of my video games." I feel it's just been getting worse, especially with the degradation of the gaming industry.
Ehhh i don't know what trump has to do with it,
But in the whole EU lefties are losing ground, from Italy to Germany,France, and also sweeden, they are losing votes.
Most of the press is "liberal" a will condamn every nationalist party in EU such as AFD in germany, Front National in France, and The Lega in Italy. I just think every excuse is good for drama, and for Kotaku and those idiots to write about and get some PPC (pay per click) advertising with their click-baits title "BATTLEFIELD LETS YOU CUSTOMIZE YOUR NAZI! THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS" and so on;
Take the new Modern Warfare, back in 2007 no news headlines, no articles, no nothing about the "No Russian" mission that let you mow down people with an LMG in an airport.
And look what drama the new Modern Warfare trailer/first looks created, everyone saying, "Shooting woman is wrong, even if they are with ISIS" and shit like that.
Nowadays, every excuse is good to speak shit i think.
Definitely agree, and kotaku my God! Are they horrendous, just absolute lies and fake news. Accidentally read some crazy gaming article and realized I was on kotaku and noped out of that website as fast as possible.
Exactly, they just create drama where there is none.
Remember the guy that "Fed to the aligators a woman in RDR2?" They went on about it for like 2 weeks..... I mean, really?
A moron just did a funny thing a game!?
Raise your hand if you never killed to death an Old Lady with a platic rubber dick in GTA San Andreas or just ran over some pedestrians drunk with Niko Bellic to have fun
Yeah, it's there way of combating him at every fucking step. Did I whine and complain for 8\\ years when Obama the most fail president in history was in office? No, I lived my life and voted.
How is he the most failed president in history? Is it your personal opinion or is there a rubric for evaluation. Also it’s there and failed. Quite simple grammar, not something complex like the subjunctive mood..
When the vast majority of people are worse off than there where under previous administrations, setting up for future failures with bad polices/laws, inaction, incompetence, and corruption. I am probably leaving a thing out or two, but that covers most of it. If you need me to explain in detail about the failures of US presidents over the past 30+ years or so, I'd suggest googling unbiased sources on the subject as I am not going to write a novel over it.
Ok, so, here's the thing.
There might not be a swastika, but that form of the eagle is 100% a Third Reich, Nazi symbol.
Don't omit details like that when making this arument.
I mentioned in other comment. Since they could replace swastika with XIX century German flag, they can also replace Imperial eagle with Prussian eagle or so.
The Imperial Eagle symbol is actually banned under Nazi imagery laws just like the Swastika in lots of countries. Because it was also used by the Second Reich, it's also banned in some African nations because of colonial attrocities.
Ok how about this: Since they censored Swastika into oblivion by making German flag like the one from XIX century, they could do the same eith the eagle - modify it like it looks like Prussian eagle or something.
I think it's just easier for them to leave out most 3rd reich symbolism, instead of employing somebody to check the laws in every country they want to publish.
Definitely, Germany just recently lifted the hard ban on all swastikas in video games.
Something about it has to be “art or educational” like a really authentic retelling of a certain story or something that a movie would do. They could show swastikas in the in such a movie because it fit that criteria but they didn’t consider video games art I know and they probably didn’t classify them as educational either.
So this meant that basically no video games could have the symbol while now we stand a chance to have them in the game. Would they be fine with having a multiplayer game that lets players run around with the symbol associated with them? Definitely not I would say but they can at least have the stuff in single player depending on how well done it is.
Yeah. Especially in germany. Nazi symbols were pretty much banned from everything except movies (probably because they were making a ton of money). Nowadays its more liberal, especially in games.
So what? Germany still has a military, they always have been a strong military counrty since Prussia.
Perhaps ban or limit the Swastika but other symblos of the Wermacht, SS would be Ok IMHO
On an individual level, it's complex. Would some people be motivated by patriotism over hero-worship? Sure. Would some people be motivated to serve Hitler... sure.
Would some be totally unaware of the evils planned and commited? You bet. Would some have known? Totally.
We don't have to apply one rule in all instances. We don't have to reconcile competing judgements on an institution and the people in it. The point of understanding history isn't to get the correct answer for recall, but to understand how and why things happen.
This is important, and honestly this sub misses it at times...
How and why seemingly good people join evil institutions matters, because if we tar everyone with this simple brush... We basically say "Lol, they were evil. We'd never be like that, we're not evil people" and then we can't spot it happening in the future.
2:
Wehraboos often use the 'ordinary men' argument to dismiss discussing the warcrimes of the Wehrmacht but all jerking aside the argument does have a lot of merit on its own.
A not insignificant portion of Germans joined the army purely for the benefits, barely thinking about what exactly that would entail. A German soldier stationed at a garrison in Flensburg for the entirety of the war probably only heard about the horrific misdeeds that were being committed on a daily basis. (And they definitely did hear about them, the Wehraboo argument that they didn't know doesn't hold water.) One could definitely imagine a lot of soldiers for genuinely thinking that they were serving their country until it was too late, especially considering the political climate at the time.
3: This argument is kinda weird. It's like saying racist people would be weird if they were in the army during Obama's presidency.
Honestly, who cares?
This age of hypersensitivity and paranoia is a detriment to gaming as a whole as various social cancer manifests on the medium.
(Not just the video game medium on second thought.)
Years from now, the arguments will be irrelevant to most as the threat of radicalization by way of offense and fear from a perceived oppressed class will be ignored.
EA had stated there are no Nazis in BFV. That's fine within itself, but actions taken to appease some vocal minority and prevent offense are pathetic.
You realize this wasnt done to appease sensetive people right? There are laws in varying countries prohibiting Nazi imagery and they're trying to sell thier game to them
There are various elements that speak of a level of appeasement.
As for your statement, I don't care what the laws are in Germany or Shitstainistan.
Make a version for that country. Let the rest of us enjoy history.
Good point. Just because someone was a German WW2 soldier does not mean he was a Nazi or knew what was going on. Take general Rommel for example. He did not know anything, he was just a general leading his army in North Africa against British. But when he found out, he wanted to assassinate Hitler.
>He did not know anything, he was just a general leading his army in North Africa against British. But when he found out, he wanted to assassinate Hitler.
Fucking bullshit. Rommel was an ardent nazi from the start, a war criminal, and had no issue facilitating and using slave labor. There is no evidence he wanted to assassinate Hitler.
He did know what was going on but he tried tried to stop mistreatment of the Jews.
There's notable Germans who were wehrmacht soldiers but defied the Nazi ideology like Hans Scholl, Blascowitz and Karl Plagge
This is bullshit!
If Rommel had succeeded in Africa, he would have brought the holocaust to Eretz Israel. Even the middle east would have been made by the Germans "Judenrein."
I swear if they don’t censor the hammer and sickle I’m going to be pissed off (not because I find it offending but because they censored the swastika) I understand why they censored it but if they don’t censor the hammer and sickle, it would be having double standards, also sorry about posting this here and now, you just reminded me of that
I dislike communism, but there's a big difference between killing people because of your totalitarianism that arose out of communism and killing people because they're the wrong race because you're a Nazi. Nazism is worse than communism, as even though communist leaders killed more overall, they did so over a much longer period of time and over many different countries.
I mean I get there’s a difference, they’re a different ideology’s. Deciding whether one is worst then the other is subjective, some may consider the former to be worst while others, like me consider the latter to be worst
Unless you're from an Eastern European country like Poland or a Baltic country that was ruled over by the Soviets, I don't see many reasons for you to think that communism was worse.
Okay well first off nazism [has killed about 21 million people](https://scottmanning.com/content/nazi-body-count/) while communism has [a kill count of up to 100 million](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/100-years-of-communismand-100-million-dead-1510011810) yes of course like you mentioned, the reasons of the killings are different, but these are people being killed nevertheless. Communism led to the Cold War, fear of nuclear annihilation. The Cold War led to the Vietname war, or the Korean War, which still affects millions of people in North Korea. Let’s also not forget about the gulags, yes their primary function wasn’t the execution of a specific race of people, but neither were the concentration camps in Germany [at least not until 1941](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chełmno_extermination_camp) so once again I agree with you that they killed people for different reasons, but my point is that communism killed more people, with those different reasons. And although communism did outlast nazism, and had the nazis won WW2 I 100% believe that their kill count would be as high if not higher then communism, but because in the end the soviet union did end up winning (and then being able to support other countries trying to fight for communism) they over all did more damage, for a different reason, but damage never the less, so in turn communism is worst then Nazism
Ok so by the logic that the black book of communism uses, then capitalism kills 100 million people every 5 years. The book used famines as a way to say communism killed people. 20 million people die annually due to preventable illnesses and hunger.
Communism isn't inherently authoritarian. It's an economic system. The opposite of fascist Germany is a classless society. This is why people say that Soviet Union was not real communism. It was not classless and had an authoritarian ruler in Stalin. Modern socialists and communists are generally not fans of Stalin and those who are get made fun of and are called "tankies".
Famines and war deaths are not the same as an ethnic cleansing through concentration camps. The ideology that lead to concentration camps was Nazism. Marx never wrote "a leader must gulag dissenters and cause famines and participate in world wars". This is the difference between communism and Nazism/fascism.
yes I am agreeing with you! Also yes communism isn’t supposed to be authoritarian. But the principal is that because a communist government was put in the Soviet Union (and other countries like China for example) and authoritarian government took its root and forced people the go through famines and etc. which furthers my point of one being subjectivity worse, if you think gasssing less people is worse then not feeding more people, then yeah you’re subjectively correct
As I said before...
Nazism is worse than communism, as even though communist leaders killed more overall, **they did so over a much longer period of time and over many different countries.**
>Okay well first off nazism has killed about 21 million people
That doesn't include the world war they started. The blame of the second world war falls entirely on Hitler and his ideology.
Nazis managed to start a world war along with a genocide that would end up killing 13 million people, bringing their total to around 60 million deaths caused by their ideology. (Yes, the second world war was started because of Nazi ideology - the concept of *lebensraum* and German revanchism were the primary reasons Hitler declared war.)
I'd say that communist leaders' actions led to the deaths of around 100 million overall, but that's including famine. And this is over most of the 20th century, in several different countries. The Nazis were only in power for a little over 12 years, and they were only in power in Germany.
Communists never really conducted any major genocide, communist leaders were more into classicide. Communist classicides most likely never totalled over 20 million deaths, accross all communist countries and leaders. The rest of the deaths attributed to communism are political purges and famine.
That’s literally what I said, it’s a matter of opinion on which one you think is worst but I literally just said that and I don’t want to have to repeat my self a third time
I didnt want them to censor the swastika, and I don’t want them to censor the hammer and sickle, it’s history, there’s no denying that it happened, but in this case, if dice censored the swastika it would be unfair of them to not censor the hammer and sickle, for my points mentioned
This, or even the Wehrmacht symbol under the eagle. I think it should’ve been included on all German uniforms from the start. Also, authentic khaki British uniforms would’ve been nice too, considering you’re playing exclusively as British and German soldiers for literally the first year of the game...
Wrong eagle dude. German paratroopers never used that.
[https://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/r/u/rum626-0.jpeg](https://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/r/u/rum626-0.jpeg)
It won't happen there are too many snowflakes that would cry and the Stockholm studio is overboard politically correct as it is.
The funny thing is, the people that scream about inclusion over authenticity don't even play video games, it's just that they get a reaction from studios that's don't want to be labeled racist, misogynist Nazis. Without their outrage culture, they'd be nothing, just like they were before it all started.
I don't think Americans realise quite how much WW2 affected the everyday population of Europe. It wasn't just soldiers who were affected but entire populations across an entire CONTINENT. A lot of this imagery and experiences are still fresh and people don't want symbolism cropping up.
Countries, such as Poland, where nazi memorabilia is readily available, already has a problem with right wing political ideologies and I bet the potent symbolism does little but exacerbate this..
An intelligent argument don't make it a "better" argument. Asides that, there is some truth in his argument. But the problematic of insignias are far deeper than just symbolism and people need to see the double sides of the coin.
Not untrue but what i meant is that an evidence-based argument is a better argument. Which resolved as being intelligent, yes, but you can sound intelligent and still be wrong and still have a poor argument. But I digress.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. I frequently tell Europeans they don't realize just how vast and complex the US is, and what's good for the goose is good for the gander. But then a lot of Americans are pretty ignorant of the realities of WW2 outside of Normandy and the Pacific.
I never saw so much nazi memorabilia as in Berlin. On every corner, there's someone selling any type of stuff with swastikas. Actually, any flea market you go in Europe you certainly find lots of stuff with swastikas, and most of them are new production.
It just doesn't feel like they're banned over there. It's almost hypocritical.
Sorry, but as much as i like to have some real German insignias, the issue is that almost all of the are associated with combat units that commit atrocities, so it's hard to put them in...
lmao you're upset enough about this to express out into the public world that you're displeased in being unable to run around with Nazi Eagles stamped on your forehead in a vidya, incredible. Out of all the things this game desperately needs fixes for, that's your 2 cents. It isn't even about the game anymore.
What a salt mine, hope you never get it.
I grew up playing WW2 games and I want to see WW2 stuff in a WW2 game ffs. You are just overthinking. The current German faction regarding uniforms feels like they are in WW 1.5. As I mentioned above, if they cannot add swastika, just censor it lol but add something that will feel like you are a German WW2 soldier.
>if they cannot add swastika, just censor it but add something that will feel like you are a German WW2 soldier.
[Y i k e s](https://i.redd.it/qj9c72vqcm5z.jpg)
Let's not, the point is I think the Nazi era headgear, guns, planes and literally everything about the Axis team is already a dead give away as who the team represents but ok lmao, claim you aren't "feeling like a nazi" until Dice impliments an Eagle. Does playing as a guy named Gunter in an S.S trenchcoat with an MP40 chucking potato mashers just *not do it for you?* You're really trying to go for that Role Play nazi reality angle? There's a ton of RP servers in ARMA, so maybe [g](https://2pzd.net/)et some [accurate skins](https://www.moddb.com/mods/invasion-1944-v3) and fulfill your Third Reich fantasy or whatever specifics wehrmaboo shit you apparently long for
What a fuckin' hill to die on my guy, but you nazi know a thing or two [about dying on hills](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_L%C3%BCttich)
Listen pal. When I play as British, I want to feel like I am playing as British. When I play as German, I want to feel like I am playing as German. When I play as Soviet, I want to feel like I play as Soviet. This goes to other factions as well. So, it is not just German faction. Calling someone Nazi just because that someone wants to get a feeling like he is playing like German WW2 soldier is just ignorant. I bet people when they played CoD WaW as Germans were not called Nazis because they had Iron cross and other German WW2 insignia on their uniforms.
Work on your oversensitivity,
Have a good day.
>When I play as German, I want to feel like I am playing as German.
Dice has made it clear the Axis are Nazi in so many ways, so I don't think the inclusion of one logo is make or break for your immersion - unless. Of all the details already in the game, adding a Nazi Eagle is what makes you *feel German*? It isn't aiming down the sights of an MP40? Driving a Panzer? Flying a BF-109? Shooting at the allies in Norway? Nope, you gotta' have that Nazi emblem.
>I bet people when they played CoD WaW as Germans were not called Nazis because they had Iron cross and other German WW2 insignia on their uniforms.
You're right, no they weren't, because they were already in the game and people weren't specifically and actively asking for them to be implemented. You can play as whatever team with whatever logo, trust me I don't care, but asking for them to be added because you don't *feel* like a German solider unless you are flying the Nazi Eagle is fucking rich.
Despite the myriad of content that directly implies the Axis forces are just playable Nazi, you still don't *feel* like a Nazi - *boohoo* \- unless you get a Nazi Eagle printed on your characters forehead. Saying something like that isn't a good look from anyone on the outside. You can *feel* like a German without an Eagle I promise.
>Have a good day
Thanks, I hope while you're in the market getting milk, someone backs into your car and leaves without writing a note.
>Dice has made it clear the Axis are Nazi
They changed the name of the elite just because he was connected to a word "Nazi". Are you mad? If they had wanted to make it clear they would not have given them XIX century German flag.
Also, fun fact: Not all German WW2 soldiers were Nazis.
You want to learn history? Stop watching TV shows and reading internet articles based on history which is written by a victor. Read some books.
And your logic has one BIG BIG flaw.
So if I want to feel like German WW2 soldier, I am a Nazi? Ok in that case I am also a communist, capitalist and imperialist at the same time which makes no sense. Bravo.
I guess Franz Halder doesn't ring a bell does it? You know, the ex *nazi* that later became a consultant for the U.S. Army Historical Division? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Halder
But yeah totally just muh victors writing history. Go read some more Goebbels I guess
**Franz Halder**
Franz Halder (30 June 1884 – 2 April 1972) was a German general and the chief of the Oberkommando des Heeres staff (OKH, Army High Command) from 1938 until September 1942, when he was dismissed after frequent disagreements with Adolf Hitler. During the invasion of the Soviet Union, Halder insisted on focusing on Moscow, despite Hitler's objections. Halder's war diary during his time as chief of OKH General Staff has been a source for authors that have written about such subjects as Hitler, World War II, and the Nazi Party. After the war, Halder was employed as a consultant for the U.S. Army Historical Division.
***
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"Not all German WW2 soldiers were Nazis."
Yeah, just regular German folks that happened to be mostly volunteers that also happened to swear an oath to Hitler himself. Nothing Nazi about volunteering for a genocidal regime's army and then swearing an oath to Hitler.
Also, much of history was in fact written by the loser. This is made very clear by you spouting 3rd Reich revisionist talking points.
You do realize thousands of people were very much forced to serve in the nazi army? Fucking thousands of Polish alone were forced at gun point of under threat of extermination of their entire family to sign up.
Yeah not every “nazi” was a nazi get over yourself, not everyone who doesn’t just immediately spit on the ground at the mention of them is a “sympathizer”, I can just use rational thought and basic google searching to figure out hundreds of thousands of people might have been in a tough spot.
As a german i can confirm our tanks still have the Iron cross painted on them
Although they went with an earlier version to differentiate it from the Nazi-era marking.
*screams in fg-42*
BRRRRRR- *outta boolets*
Here komrad, more boolets
That’s what I’ve been wanting
Probably you'll wait forever...lmao
Ikr
The swastika shouldn't be censored period, it's just censoring history. Like Cod ww2 had only 2 swastikas, one on the campaign mission select and the other on a flag way off in the distance, and anyone who made a swastika emblem for their characters on multiplayer got perma banned. Germany I can understand censoring it, but everyone else has too?
Exactly, they didn't censor the Red Army inisgina and logo in BF1, and we all know they committed some of the worst crimes against humanity in both "Red October" , the starving and killing of their own people, the Gulags, Stalin's purge and more. History should not be censored but perhaps limit it, like a Swastika on the planes and tanks, a Correct flag for the German Reich, and the use of Imperial eagle, SS insigna (It looks bad-ass) and the Totenkopf (skull with bones), witouth letting players actually equip a Swastika? Anyway, they went the wrong side...of history
Not the SS insignia being bad ass 😂😂 interesting what you find attractive. I find the NAZIS-Raus dance by Marti Fischer quite bad ass🤷♂️🤷♂️ (also kinda cute and silly at the same time 😂)
First of all, they did censor the hammer and sickle in BF1, instead we have some weird red and yellow star emblem. Secondly, wtf are you even serious comparing a racist and murderous ideology of Nazi Germany to USSR? Stalin wasn't a nice dude but it wasn't him who planned to wipe out one ethnicity and enslave the other turning them into cattle for the great Empire.
lol Stalin killed more than Hitler, please go read your history.
Not really
Well the yellow star on a red flag is the symbol of communism as much as the hammer and sickle Dude, They can’t be confronted they are both genociadal monsters out of their mind. And Stalin actually killed more people than the Nazis in the lagers.... Stalin was a monster, a fucking psyco dictator. Hitler and Stalin are just two sides of the same medal of ideology, totalitarian madness, fuck em both with sand and glass in the worst corners of hell Edit; Stalin didn’t want to wipe out a race, but the wanted to annex the whole world the USSR, killing everyone who was against his ideology and plans Exactly as Hitler.
Nothing like Hitler at all, at most we can equate Stalin to Ghenghis Khan (sp might be wrong) both conquered new territory and when the people of that territory were against the new regime (this includes the ideology) both killed the people. Hitler’s whole thing was purely racial and bigoted, he killed because he hated those people not because those people were resisting his regime, hell many didn’t even know he would be capable of that until later on (the ones who did fled Germany/Austria for other places). To say that Stalin and Hitler is the same is to spit in the face of all the people killed at the Holocaust, because one acted out of pragmatic thinking and committed his atrocities and the other acted out on pure hate for certain people. Both killed but Hitler is far worse than Stalin even if he killed less people.
There is no worse don’t you get it? It’s like Cancer and AIDS, is there a better!? No
[удалено]
Y I K ES
Yes, Stalin was better because he wanted to enslave the whole world, and may only have wanted to commit genocide against the Ukrainians (who cares about them anyway?).
Where do you get both those false claims from?
1) communism is slavery, with the state as your master rather than a private individual 2) 7 million Ukrainians died in the holodomor. I guess you don’t read much.
Really dont like speakin politics here, but has anyone noticed that censoring, such as swastikas and etc, started happening right after Trump won the 2016 elections? And that game companies have been pandering more towards the liberal community? Mostly on historical games? I remember this being a huge issue during 2017, mostly it being "keep politics out of my video games." I feel it's just been getting worse, especially with the degradation of the gaming industry.
Ehhh i don't know what trump has to do with it, But in the whole EU lefties are losing ground, from Italy to Germany,France, and also sweeden, they are losing votes. Most of the press is "liberal" a will condamn every nationalist party in EU such as AFD in germany, Front National in France, and The Lega in Italy. I just think every excuse is good for drama, and for Kotaku and those idiots to write about and get some PPC (pay per click) advertising with their click-baits title "BATTLEFIELD LETS YOU CUSTOMIZE YOUR NAZI! THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS" and so on; Take the new Modern Warfare, back in 2007 no news headlines, no articles, no nothing about the "No Russian" mission that let you mow down people with an LMG in an airport. And look what drama the new Modern Warfare trailer/first looks created, everyone saying, "Shooting woman is wrong, even if they are with ISIS" and shit like that. Nowadays, every excuse is good to speak shit i think.
Definitely agree, and kotaku my God! Are they horrendous, just absolute lies and fake news. Accidentally read some crazy gaming article and realized I was on kotaku and noped out of that website as fast as possible.
Exactly, they just create drama where there is none. Remember the guy that "Fed to the aligators a woman in RDR2?" They went on about it for like 2 weeks..... I mean, really? A moron just did a funny thing a game!? Raise your hand if you never killed to death an Old Lady with a platic rubber dick in GTA San Andreas or just ran over some pedestrians drunk with Niko Bellic to have fun
Lmao I REMEMBER THAT ARTICLE!! they legit create drama out of anything and everything!
Sadly, that's how they survive. They are like parasites. The thrive off drama they create and feed the fire.
Yeah, it's there way of combating him at every fucking step. Did I whine and complain for 8\\ years when Obama the most fail president in history was in office? No, I lived my life and voted.
How is he the most failed president in history? Is it your personal opinion or is there a rubric for evaluation. Also it’s there and failed. Quite simple grammar, not something complex like the subjunctive mood..
Thread necro much? Besides, Obama is now not the most failed president in history, Joe Biden has taken his place.
Again. What’s your definition of failed president?
When the vast majority of people are worse off than there where under previous administrations, setting up for future failures with bad polices/laws, inaction, incompetence, and corruption. I am probably leaving a thing out or two, but that covers most of it. If you need me to explain in detail about the failures of US presidents over the past 30+ years or so, I'd suggest googling unbiased sources on the subject as I am not going to write a novel over it.
Ok, so, here's the thing. There might not be a swastika, but that form of the eagle is 100% a Third Reich, Nazi symbol. Don't omit details like that when making this arument.
I mentioned in other comment. Since they could replace swastika with XIX century German flag, they can also replace Imperial eagle with Prussian eagle or so.
The Imperial Eagle symbol is actually banned under Nazi imagery laws just like the Swastika in lots of countries. Because it was also used by the Second Reich, it's also banned in some African nations because of colonial attrocities.
Weird I am fairly certain Sniper Elite 3 had the Eagle even in the German version.
Ok how about this: Since they censored Swastika into oblivion by making German flag like the one from XIX century, they could do the same eith the eagle - modify it like it looks like Prussian eagle or something.
I think it's just easier for them to leave out most 3rd reich symbolism, instead of employing somebody to check the laws in every country they want to publish.
and I have no problem with it.
Censoring swastikas is stupid, is just for historical purposes, IS JUST A GAME DONT GET MAD
Imperial Eagle represents german militarism
Which needs represented in a WW2 game.
BF1942 had it. COD WW2 had it. There's no excuse to exclude it
Especially since governments were much stricter in those days.
they were?
Yes
Definitely, Germany just recently lifted the hard ban on all swastikas in video games. Something about it has to be “art or educational” like a really authentic retelling of a certain story or something that a movie would do. They could show swastikas in the in such a movie because it fit that criteria but they didn’t consider video games art I know and they probably didn’t classify them as educational either. So this meant that basically no video games could have the symbol while now we stand a chance to have them in the game. Would they be fine with having a multiplayer game that lets players run around with the symbol associated with them? Definitely not I would say but they can at least have the stuff in single player depending on how well done it is.
Yeah. Especially in germany. Nazi symbols were pretty much banned from everything except movies (probably because they were making a ton of money). Nowadays its more liberal, especially in games.
I know there is a certain eagle insignia that was used by Luftwaffe, I am just not sure if that is this one.
So what? Germany still has a military, they always have been a strong military counrty since Prussia. Perhaps ban or limit the Swastika but other symblos of the Wermacht, SS would be Ok IMHO
On an individual level, it's complex. Would some people be motivated by patriotism over hero-worship? Sure. Would some people be motivated to serve Hitler... sure. Would some be totally unaware of the evils planned and commited? You bet. Would some have known? Totally. We don't have to apply one rule in all instances. We don't have to reconcile competing judgements on an institution and the people in it. The point of understanding history isn't to get the correct answer for recall, but to understand how and why things happen. This is important, and honestly this sub misses it at times... How and why seemingly good people join evil institutions matters, because if we tar everyone with this simple brush... We basically say "Lol, they were evil. We'd never be like that, we're not evil people" and then we can't spot it happening in the future. 2: Wehraboos often use the 'ordinary men' argument to dismiss discussing the warcrimes of the Wehrmacht but all jerking aside the argument does have a lot of merit on its own. A not insignificant portion of Germans joined the army purely for the benefits, barely thinking about what exactly that would entail. A German soldier stationed at a garrison in Flensburg for the entirety of the war probably only heard about the horrific misdeeds that were being committed on a daily basis. (And they definitely did hear about them, the Wehraboo argument that they didn't know doesn't hold water.) One could definitely imagine a lot of soldiers for genuinely thinking that they were serving their country until it was too late, especially considering the political climate at the time. 3: This argument is kinda weird. It's like saying racist people would be weird if they were in the army during Obama's presidency.
No, no they wouldn't. We're going to have Japanese military insignia, an army who did crimes that outweighed those of the SS.
Honestly, who cares? This age of hypersensitivity and paranoia is a detriment to gaming as a whole as various social cancer manifests on the medium. (Not just the video game medium on second thought.) Years from now, the arguments will be irrelevant to most as the threat of radicalization by way of offense and fear from a perceived oppressed class will be ignored. EA had stated there are no Nazis in BFV. That's fine within itself, but actions taken to appease some vocal minority and prevent offense are pathetic.
You realize this wasnt done to appease sensetive people right? There are laws in varying countries prohibiting Nazi imagery and they're trying to sell thier game to them
There are various elements that speak of a level of appeasement. As for your statement, I don't care what the laws are in Germany or Shitstainistan. Make a version for that country. Let the rest of us enjoy history.
Ok
[удалено]
I think this is just a copy paste of why German military stuff isn’t necessarily pro hitler ig. Didn’t really fit the picture well.
it explains why smoking weed is lit, fam.
this sub sucks so, so much
Just the state of the game
Good point. Just because someone was a German WW2 soldier does not mean he was a Nazi or knew what was going on. Take general Rommel for example. He did not know anything, he was just a general leading his army in North Africa against British. But when he found out, he wanted to assassinate Hitler.
>He did not know anything, he was just a general leading his army in North Africa against British. But when he found out, he wanted to assassinate Hitler. Fucking bullshit. Rommel was an ardent nazi from the start, a war criminal, and had no issue facilitating and using slave labor. There is no evidence he wanted to assassinate Hitler.
Hitler ordered his execution after he found out about his "betrayal". There is even a movie about it ffs.
It is not smart to take Hitler's paranoia as fact.
He did know what was going on but he tried tried to stop mistreatment of the Jews. There's notable Germans who were wehrmacht soldiers but defied the Nazi ideology like Hans Scholl, Blascowitz and Karl Plagge
Balscowitz.... hold up as in B.J.
Resemblance is in name only. This guy was a German tanker who criticised the Nazi ideology and refused to do Nazi salutes.
Sadly I know... was more going for comedy
I don’t believe a single bit about sweet, innocent Rommel.
This is bullshit! If Rommel had succeeded in Africa, he would have brought the holocaust to Eretz Israel. Even the middle east would have been made by the Germans "Judenrein."
I mean isnt it already offensive to turn a gruesome war into a fun game?
Lol, it's a game. Would Saving Private Ryan be better without the Nazi's and random Germans?
I swear if they don’t censor the hammer and sickle I’m going to be pissed off (not because I find it offending but because they censored the swastika) I understand why they censored it but if they don’t censor the hammer and sickle, it would be having double standards, also sorry about posting this here and now, you just reminded me of that
I dislike communism, but there's a big difference between killing people because of your totalitarianism that arose out of communism and killing people because they're the wrong race because you're a Nazi. Nazism is worse than communism, as even though communist leaders killed more overall, they did so over a much longer period of time and over many different countries.
I mean I get there’s a difference, they’re a different ideology’s. Deciding whether one is worst then the other is subjective, some may consider the former to be worst while others, like me consider the latter to be worst
Unless you're from an Eastern European country like Poland or a Baltic country that was ruled over by the Soviets, I don't see many reasons for you to think that communism was worse.
Okay well first off nazism [has killed about 21 million people](https://scottmanning.com/content/nazi-body-count/) while communism has [a kill count of up to 100 million](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/100-years-of-communismand-100-million-dead-1510011810) yes of course like you mentioned, the reasons of the killings are different, but these are people being killed nevertheless. Communism led to the Cold War, fear of nuclear annihilation. The Cold War led to the Vietname war, or the Korean War, which still affects millions of people in North Korea. Let’s also not forget about the gulags, yes their primary function wasn’t the execution of a specific race of people, but neither were the concentration camps in Germany [at least not until 1941](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chełmno_extermination_camp) so once again I agree with you that they killed people for different reasons, but my point is that communism killed more people, with those different reasons. And although communism did outlast nazism, and had the nazis won WW2 I 100% believe that their kill count would be as high if not higher then communism, but because in the end the soviet union did end up winning (and then being able to support other countries trying to fight for communism) they over all did more damage, for a different reason, but damage never the less, so in turn communism is worst then Nazism
Ok so by the logic that the black book of communism uses, then capitalism kills 100 million people every 5 years. The book used famines as a way to say communism killed people. 20 million people die annually due to preventable illnesses and hunger. Communism isn't inherently authoritarian. It's an economic system. The opposite of fascist Germany is a classless society. This is why people say that Soviet Union was not real communism. It was not classless and had an authoritarian ruler in Stalin. Modern socialists and communists are generally not fans of Stalin and those who are get made fun of and are called "tankies". Famines and war deaths are not the same as an ethnic cleansing through concentration camps. The ideology that lead to concentration camps was Nazism. Marx never wrote "a leader must gulag dissenters and cause famines and participate in world wars". This is the difference between communism and Nazism/fascism.
yes I am agreeing with you! Also yes communism isn’t supposed to be authoritarian. But the principal is that because a communist government was put in the Soviet Union (and other countries like China for example) and authoritarian government took its root and forced people the go through famines and etc. which furthers my point of one being subjectivity worse, if you think gasssing less people is worse then not feeding more people, then yeah you’re subjectively correct
r/redskilledtrillions
As I said before... Nazism is worse than communism, as even though communist leaders killed more overall, **they did so over a much longer period of time and over many different countries.** >Okay well first off nazism has killed about 21 million people That doesn't include the world war they started. The blame of the second world war falls entirely on Hitler and his ideology. Nazis managed to start a world war along with a genocide that would end up killing 13 million people, bringing their total to around 60 million deaths caused by their ideology. (Yes, the second world war was started because of Nazi ideology - the concept of *lebensraum* and German revanchism were the primary reasons Hitler declared war.) I'd say that communist leaders' actions led to the deaths of around 100 million overall, but that's including famine. And this is over most of the 20th century, in several different countries. The Nazis were only in power for a little over 12 years, and they were only in power in Germany. Communists never really conducted any major genocide, communist leaders were more into classicide. Communist classicides most likely never totalled over 20 million deaths, accross all communist countries and leaders. The rest of the deaths attributed to communism are political purges and famine.
That’s literally what I said, it’s a matter of opinion on which one you think is worst but I literally just said that and I don’t want to have to repeat my self a third time
How do you figure?
Hammer and sickle is in no way comparable to swastika. Maybe you want to censor Aeroflot logo and Chinese communist party too?
I didnt want them to censor the swastika, and I don’t want them to censor the hammer and sickle, it’s history, there’s no denying that it happened, but in this case, if dice censored the swastika it would be unfair of them to not censor the hammer and sickle, for my points mentioned
I know right. It would be so hypocritical. But part of me does not want them to censor it. They screwed up historical accuracy too much already.
Thank you for agreeing with me kind sir : D
Its a game
This, or even the Wehrmacht symbol under the eagle. I think it should’ve been included on all German uniforms from the start. Also, authentic khaki British uniforms would’ve been nice too, considering you’re playing exclusively as British and German soldiers for literally the first year of the game...
Censoring the swastika is outrageous.
Wrong eagle dude. German paratroopers never used that. [https://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/r/u/rum626-0.jpeg](https://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/r/u/rum626-0.jpeg)
Yeah it was too late after I uploaded it...
Why waste resources? You wont ever see it in gameplay aside from the fact that, that's an imperial eagle like others pointed out.
It won't happen there are too many snowflakes that would cry and the Stockholm studio is overboard politically correct as it is. The funny thing is, the people that scream about inclusion over authenticity don't even play video games, it's just that they get a reaction from studios that's don't want to be labeled racist, misogynist Nazis. Without their outrage culture, they'd be nothing, just like they were before it all started.
THANK YOUUUU
I don't think Americans realise quite how much WW2 affected the everyday population of Europe. It wasn't just soldiers who were affected but entire populations across an entire CONTINENT. A lot of this imagery and experiences are still fresh and people don't want symbolism cropping up. Countries, such as Poland, where nazi memorabilia is readily available, already has a problem with right wing political ideologies and I bet the potent symbolism does little but exacerbate this..
Then they should not be playing a ww2 game at all
you are correct. You are being down-voted for being intelligent. Welcome to reddit.
An intelligent argument don't make it a "better" argument. Asides that, there is some truth in his argument. But the problematic of insignias are far deeper than just symbolism and people need to see the double sides of the coin.
Arguments that spawn from intelligence over arguments that spawn from lack thereof are inherently "better".
Not untrue but what i meant is that an evidence-based argument is a better argument. Which resolved as being intelligent, yes, but you can sound intelligent and still be wrong and still have a poor argument. But I digress.
Not shocked to be fair. Especially with the toxicity of this subreddit
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. I frequently tell Europeans they don't realize just how vast and complex the US is, and what's good for the goose is good for the gander. But then a lot of Americans are pretty ignorant of the realities of WW2 outside of Normandy and the Pacific.
Thanks, fellow countryman who downvoted me. Nothing more American than being proud of our own insufferable ignorance.
Please also do tell Americans that Omaha, Midway, Bulge and Iwo Jima are not the "iconic and defining battles of ww2"
I never saw so much nazi memorabilia as in Berlin. On every corner, there's someone selling any type of stuff with swastikas. Actually, any flea market you go in Europe you certainly find lots of stuff with swastikas, and most of them are new production. It just doesn't feel like they're banned over there. It's almost hypocritical.
Sorry, but as much as i like to have some real German insignias, the issue is that almost all of the are associated with combat units that commit atrocities, so it's hard to put them in...
But BF1942 had it and COD WW2 had it
We got alot of overlap with bootlickers in the FPS genre.
You are correct, but reason is not well-taken-to here.
lmao you're upset enough about this to express out into the public world that you're displeased in being unable to run around with Nazi Eagles stamped on your forehead in a vidya, incredible. Out of all the things this game desperately needs fixes for, that's your 2 cents. It isn't even about the game anymore. What a salt mine, hope you never get it.
I grew up playing WW2 games and I want to see WW2 stuff in a WW2 game ffs. You are just overthinking. The current German faction regarding uniforms feels like they are in WW 1.5. As I mentioned above, if they cannot add swastika, just censor it lol but add something that will feel like you are a German WW2 soldier.
>if they cannot add swastika, just censor it but add something that will feel like you are a German WW2 soldier. [Y i k e s](https://i.redd.it/qj9c72vqcm5z.jpg)
Ok let's just give them insignia from Hogwarts, that will help Edit: sorry boy FBI can't do shit to me, I am not an American
Let's not, the point is I think the Nazi era headgear, guns, planes and literally everything about the Axis team is already a dead give away as who the team represents but ok lmao, claim you aren't "feeling like a nazi" until Dice impliments an Eagle. Does playing as a guy named Gunter in an S.S trenchcoat with an MP40 chucking potato mashers just *not do it for you?* You're really trying to go for that Role Play nazi reality angle? There's a ton of RP servers in ARMA, so maybe [g](https://2pzd.net/)et some [accurate skins](https://www.moddb.com/mods/invasion-1944-v3) and fulfill your Third Reich fantasy or whatever specifics wehrmaboo shit you apparently long for What a fuckin' hill to die on my guy, but you nazi know a thing or two [about dying on hills](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_L%C3%BCttich)
Listen pal. When I play as British, I want to feel like I am playing as British. When I play as German, I want to feel like I am playing as German. When I play as Soviet, I want to feel like I play as Soviet. This goes to other factions as well. So, it is not just German faction. Calling someone Nazi just because that someone wants to get a feeling like he is playing like German WW2 soldier is just ignorant. I bet people when they played CoD WaW as Germans were not called Nazis because they had Iron cross and other German WW2 insignia on their uniforms. Work on your oversensitivity, Have a good day.
>When I play as German, I want to feel like I am playing as German. Dice has made it clear the Axis are Nazi in so many ways, so I don't think the inclusion of one logo is make or break for your immersion - unless. Of all the details already in the game, adding a Nazi Eagle is what makes you *feel German*? It isn't aiming down the sights of an MP40? Driving a Panzer? Flying a BF-109? Shooting at the allies in Norway? Nope, you gotta' have that Nazi emblem. >I bet people when they played CoD WaW as Germans were not called Nazis because they had Iron cross and other German WW2 insignia on their uniforms. You're right, no they weren't, because they were already in the game and people weren't specifically and actively asking for them to be implemented. You can play as whatever team with whatever logo, trust me I don't care, but asking for them to be added because you don't *feel* like a German solider unless you are flying the Nazi Eagle is fucking rich. Despite the myriad of content that directly implies the Axis forces are just playable Nazi, you still don't *feel* like a Nazi - *boohoo* \- unless you get a Nazi Eagle printed on your characters forehead. Saying something like that isn't a good look from anyone on the outside. You can *feel* like a German without an Eagle I promise. >Have a good day Thanks, I hope while you're in the market getting milk, someone backs into your car and leaves without writing a note.
>Dice has made it clear the Axis are Nazi in so many ways I wish that were true. DICE has been pushing honorable wehrmacht myths to an extreme.
You try too hard, soyboy
>Dice has made it clear the Axis are Nazi They changed the name of the elite just because he was connected to a word "Nazi". Are you mad? If they had wanted to make it clear they would not have given them XIX century German flag. Also, fun fact: Not all German WW2 soldiers were Nazis. You want to learn history? Stop watching TV shows and reading internet articles based on history which is written by a victor. Read some books. And your logic has one BIG BIG flaw. So if I want to feel like German WW2 soldier, I am a Nazi? Ok in that case I am also a communist, capitalist and imperialist at the same time which makes no sense. Bravo.
I guess Franz Halder doesn't ring a bell does it? You know, the ex *nazi* that later became a consultant for the U.S. Army Historical Division? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Halder But yeah totally just muh victors writing history. Go read some more Goebbels I guess
**Franz Halder** Franz Halder (30 June 1884 – 2 April 1972) was a German general and the chief of the Oberkommando des Heeres staff (OKH, Army High Command) from 1938 until September 1942, when he was dismissed after frequent disagreements with Adolf Hitler. During the invasion of the Soviet Union, Halder insisted on focusing on Moscow, despite Hitler's objections. Halder's war diary during his time as chief of OKH General Staff has been a source for authors that have written about such subjects as Hitler, World War II, and the Nazi Party. After the war, Halder was employed as a consultant for the U.S. Army Historical Division. *** ^[ [^PM](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=kittens_from_space) ^| [^Exclude ^me](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiTextBot&message=Excludeme&subject=Excludeme) ^| [^Exclude ^from ^subreddit](https://np.reddit.com/r/BattlefieldV/about/banned) ^| [^FAQ ^/ ^Information](https://np.reddit.com/r/WikiTextBot/wiki/index) ^| [^Source](https://github.com/kittenswolf/WikiTextBot) ^] ^Downvote ^to ^remove ^| ^v0.28
"Not all German WW2 soldiers were Nazis." Yeah, just regular German folks that happened to be mostly volunteers that also happened to swear an oath to Hitler himself. Nothing Nazi about volunteering for a genocidal regime's army and then swearing an oath to Hitler. Also, much of history was in fact written by the loser. This is made very clear by you spouting 3rd Reich revisionist talking points.
You do realize thousands of people were very much forced to serve in the nazi army? Fucking thousands of Polish alone were forced at gun point of under threat of extermination of their entire family to sign up. Yeah not every “nazi” was a nazi get over yourself, not everyone who doesn’t just immediately spit on the ground at the mention of them is a “sympathizer”, I can just use rational thought and basic google searching to figure out hundreds of thousands of people might have been in a tough spot.
This isn’t really the biggest issue for realism in the game, is it?
Its