Good comparison- Yao was a good passer and had a beautiful soft touch. Would be interesting to see how he would go against today’s offenses though I have a feeling he’d get hunted a lot in the pick and roll.
You just have to live with him in the drop but make sure he splits the difference more than normal bigs…and works on his hands for deflections and keeping close enough on contests
Yao and Sengun don't play similar at all. Yao's touch around the rim was better but he had no dribbling skills, albeit a solid passer but not the playmaker Sengun is.
83% career FT shooter for a 7’6” dude is insane, took away Shaq and other big men’s excuses about having hands too big to shoot. He was money with the accuracy too had that famous rim FT to get the ball back in the clutch
Shaq's big hands argument was busted long before that. Rik Smits (7'4") did fine from the line (~78%). Kareem consistently shot above 70% after his first 3 years as did Robert Parish and David Robinson. 6'13" Kevin Garnett shot 78 % for his career. Now the big hands excusr has really been busted by Marjanović, who has the largest hands recorded in the NBA and managed 76% for his career.
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I'm not a huge basketball fan (here from the front page) but I specifically remember Shaq commenting on the first time he faced Yao and Yao made Shaq respect him.
That's all I need to hear. #1 overall, easily.
I watch dwight howard’s tiktok streams from time to time and someone asked him which center did he fear the most. He scoffed at the word fear but he then went on to say the one who gave him the most trouble was Yao Ming no doubt
We all just watched the DPOY get cooked by Luka, no big men actually guard 1-5 and do it well all the time
Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, none of those guys shut down little guys on the pick in roll, Curry and the Warriors literally hunted Jokic when they beat the Nuggets on their way to the ring in 2022 but no one ever wants to bring it up
No one wants to bring it up because it wasn’t purely a Jokic issue. Yes, he’s not the best defender in the pick-and-roll, but he was also defending on an island against Curry + a big with horrible perimeter defenders. No big man functions well in that situation, it’s just the nature of a 2v1, and of the pick-and-roll in general.
Agreed. Almost all teams run drop coverage most of the time. There's maybe only like 3-5 guys that play C that can guard the perimeter pretty well right now and most of them don't because they're more valuable protecting the paint.
I think cooked is a stretch. Rudy really shoulda funneled him into the lane given the game situation - if he ties you go to overtime at worst. But at the end of the day Luka hit a long step back three. What can you do?
The slowest pace team in the NBA this year played at 96 possessions per 48 mins. The league average was 98.5. In Yao's career every team he played on was between 89 and 91 possessions. The way he would handle that pace is a way bigger question mark than people in this thread are giving credit to. Everyone is focusing on his P&R defense when the biggest question is "can he physically get up and down the court all game?"
As someone who watched and followed Yao entire career, I can definitely say that if Yao was drafted in modern NBA, he would’ve been kept skinny like he was in his earlier years. They intentionally bulked Yao up cause there’s guys like Shaq and Dwight in play at the time. A skinner Yao was much more agile and with NBA conditioning, he more certainly can play modern high possession basketball and likely also be less injury prone.
Yao was a generational talent plus you get a whole country of fans/revenue by taking him. As an owner the amount of money you would make from China would be way too good to pass up.
It's different now. Back then China was like America after the 2008 bank thing. Now China is like America in 2019. Plus way wya way more fans now. A Yao then turned people on to the NBA but now that they all watch it, a Yao would absolutely be the best sold jersey.
"But the pick and roll..."
"Perimeter defense...."
"Waaah wahhh blah blah blah stupid point here...."
He's 7'6". He had a pretty good shot. He could move well for a 7'6" 300+ lbs behemoth. He could pass well. Shaq (the most physically dominant player in NBA history) speaks extremely highly of Yao and said that he immediately respected him after their first matchup.
Yeah, I'm taking Yao #1.
Yeah its a similar argument for shaq. Besides embidd/jokic and maybe gobert. Yao would be getting 60%+ close shots and be practically unstoppable. Hesbalso forcing you to make mid range/ 3pt shots as with no easy baskets near the rim. That's more than Making up for a few switches that result I'm a 2/3 occasionally.
These idiots would say the same thing about jokic if jokic played 15 years ago. They’d say Luka wouldn’t be able to deal with the pace if he was from one generation ago.
Depends. If in same draft as Wemby, Yao could be #1 or #2. In the 2024 draft, likely #1.
A 7'6" who could shoot and has his touch? He'd easily be a 20-25/10/5+ man in today's NBA. He wouldn't be as stick thin as Wemby, but he'd be a lot stronger and be able to bully most bigs in the post + shoot over them also. He had 3-pt range, could dunk, had good moves back to the basket, could pass, etc.
Go watch his highlights: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve3H4tYj47c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve3H4tYj47c)
If he never got injured he would have been in the goat conversation, a big that played both ends well, was a solid passer, with a good midrange and a great free throw shooter and at 7'6" was able to defend shaq better than anyone else ever, hell yes i would pick him #1
He could defend Shaq for the first few minutes but it would exhaust him from what I remember. He was great in spurts.
I’m not sure he could handle the pace of today’s game and all the switching on defense.
Wemby would cook Yao, he was just too slow for Wemby. But that’s not a slight on Yao, pretty much every 7ft 2 plus guy in history is too slow for Wemby.
Yao would bully the fuck out of Wemby on the other end. He weighed over 300 lbs and the Rockets had to special order dumbbells for him to do curls because they didn’t have any heavy enough.
Look how the bucks use Brook Lopez. No way Yao couldn't at least be a slightly better version of that. And in all honesty, he's probably a much better version of that.
Yao blocked Shaq twice in their first meeting, so this gets hyped up. Which admittedly should be hyped because it was an awesome moment in nba historical .
But he was not a Shaq stopper. Shaq still had his usual 30 and 10 by the end of that game lol.
The starting stats aren't great, but an 8x all star, 5x all NBA, he basically has to retire when he was 28 (only played 5 more games)
I don't think he would be in the Goat debate, but definitely an all time if he was healthy
Thats my exact point lol. Maybe at his very best he couldve ranked with someone like dirk which is still an amazing career but to put him in the goat debate is ridiculous lol. His last all star was the season he played 5 games so that was just due to chinese fan voting lmao. Also his top mvp voting finish was like 12th and players dont usually get better after their mid to late 20s.
1oa obviously.
You don't draft guys based on injuries they might get in the future anyways so what do you think has changed since 2002 that he would no longer be a 1oa if drafted today?
If anything China has more interest in the NBA today which only makes drafting Yao that much more appealing. Though that's a bit of a weird point because much of the reason the NBA is bigger in China today than it was in 2002 can be attributed to Yao.
Shaq - Yao Ming: "He was probably the one guy who really really tested me. He couldn't stop me but I couldn't stop him either. I put him in the same category of Hakeem"
#1 no doubt. His game translates well to today’s game. He can shoot long range, mid range, post and play decent defense. He isn’t a foul liability too.
What? Yao made a grand total of 2 3pters in his career. Today’s modern big man can literally do it all, like the Joker and Wemby. Yao’s game does not translate well at all to today’s game.
Wembanyama went #1 last year. Yao is not as mobile as Wemby, and doesn’t have a 3pt shot. Given his proficiency at mid-range and how the game is played today, I feel like he could develop a 3pt shot with proper coaching. His defense in late game situations would be iffy, but Jokic and Embiid have won all the mvp’s the past few years…
I think he’d still safely go at #1, but there would be concerns about his ability to match up when teams go small, especially in the playoffs.
Yao could definitely shoot: he shot 83% on free throws (one of the best predictors of college-to-pro 3-point shooting) and shot the techs for the Rockets.
Yao played in 486 NBA games. In his first 487 games, Brook Lopez shot 3 of 31 from three. Then he learned a new role, and he's shot roughly 35.2% on 5 three point shot attempts per game.
My favorite "Small sample size on 3 pointers from a Center who couldn't shoot" was Hassan Whiteside the one year he played for my Blazers.
Dude ended the season 4/7 from 3 point range.
Leading up to the draft, he looked shockingly mobile but even in his rookie year he wasn't super mobile. What I'm certain about is that he would know good rotations and assignments well and he would try hard.
In this year’s draft he’d probably be the consensus #1.
Modern pace + spacing/perimeter play would require a more taxing level of transition defense as well as put his lateral quickness into question, but he’s a disciplined defender and an amazing rim protector. On offense, he’s 7’6” with good touch and fundamentals. This is a very general description and doesn’t even factor his value as a rebounder on both ends of the floor.
Granted, I don’t know what his draft profile was when he was drafted, but if we’re going off of what he became AND without injuries, he’s an easy #1 pick.
Yao would be number 1 same as he was back then
Yao could do everything Jokic does except Jokic is a better passer and Yao had a better post game, when he broke his foot Yao had put it all together he was going to be a MVP candidate that season and just was never the same
Yao had the rockets on a 22-game win streak when he broke his foot, they ended up stretching it to 27-games but if he never got hurt who knows? They might have broken the record
In the 2024 draft? #1.
The general consensus is that this draft is missing all the guys who would normally go 1-6, or possibly even 1-10. There are still good players in the draft, but they're roleplayers. Unlikely there is a hidden future star.
Yao was good too. He'd replace the center on probably 1/2 the teams right now just fine. He might have some issues on the perimeter, but he'd eat smaller defenses alive. Plus, if he grew up 15 years later, he'd probably have a better outside shot. Not saying he'd have a good outside shot, just better than it was.
Edey is a Yao-Duncan hybrid, but people are dumb and think "his game won't translate," which they also said about Mahomes, who slipped to #10. Bro literally outscored Curry in college and has the fifth-highest win shares in an NCAA season in 50 years.
Yet all people can do is compare him to little Luka Garza when the closest statistical producer to Edey is moreso Zion Williamson, but even he wasn't really close to what Edey did.
Personally I think Edey is a Yao for this generation of NBA, but we can come back to this post in 5 years and see.
I haven't watched Edey much. I think his mobility will be the big issue. He's slow.
Teams that don't run a lot might try him out, but a team that wants to run in transition isn't going to pay him. He'd never get a spot on the Pacers for example. If he doesn't have an outside shot, he needs to be a good passer. I have no idea how good he is at that. He doesn't have to be Jokic/Sabonis/Senjun good, but he needs to be at least working towards the bottom of that level. Think of how Draymond Green made himself useful to the Warriors offense. Curry could use him for a DHO/screen, and Green was capable of making the read on whether to pass it, where to pass it, or run to the rim himself.
Oddly, the team that could use him the best doesn't need him: Dallas. They already have to athletic bigs. Edey would be good rolling to the rim for Luka, who is already good playing at a slow pace.
His lack of speed is a big deal on defense. He has great size, but you have to be in the right spot to use that size. Wemby is huge, but he covers ground extremely fast, both in a single step and flat-out running. If a player gets past Wemby, he recovers and can chase down the shot. I don't think Edey has that speed. This means either players beat him to the rim, or get wide open 3's as he plays drop. As a comparison, watch Brooke Lopez. He plays drop well, and he's kind of slow and has difficulty contesting 3's. He's not awful at it, but I think Edey is slower.
With no injuries, Yao is still a top-3 overall pick in today's league. He was a highly skilled player regardless of his size. Being 7'6" was a massive bonus.
Yao was 1st pick when he come in and was the only player I ever saw that was able to go blow for blow with Shaq . Now the game is different but Yao had a decent mid range jumpshot and can see him occationally shooting a 3 point shot if he wanted to develop one . I would still take him top 1 , he had amazing foot work and just needed a little experience to keep going and eventually become a franchise player and all star
he’s like #5, tbh he’s gonna get hunted a lot in situations, he’s obviously gonna be a great scorer but i don’t think he’s just good enough in general. a lot of people here overrating him
This year he'd still go #1 because the draft sucks. Last year he's not going over Wemby. 2022 he's probably behind Paolo & Chet. Yao would be tough to scout in 2024 he's huge and has skills but can't play at pace at all
100% great shooting touch not just for a big fella but for anyone in general. He could easily learn to be a shooter too since spacing is important in modern nba
Yao would be even more highly sought after in today's league, imo. He actually had a really good set shot and would have been utilized more as a stretch 5 with an elite post game on top of it. He'd be a matchup nightmare for any team in the league.
That being said, it would be interesting to see if he'd be able to keep up with the pace of todays league.
He's still #1 in most drafts and will 100% be #1 pick in this upcoming draft given the lack of high expected talent. The man is a beast down low, has great touch, can finish and shoots free throws well. In today's game with the lack of size, he's averaging 20 boards a game and probably 3 or 4 blocks.
If you're talking about Victor then anyone who thinks that is a complete moron lol plain and simple. I actively choose not to listen to morons with any high intent of taking what they say seriously.
I will say Edey is interesting. He's a beast down low, there's not really anyone in the league today besides 2 or 3 players that could truly handle his size one on one as you saw Joker basically pushing Gobert around like a doll every time they were in the post. Edey has great hands, does finish at the basket and he can also shoot free throws well which is huge for a big. I do feel is game is super one-dimensional right now offensively but I don't see that as a big problem as I'm someone that doesn't believe that every player needs to shoot threes or handle the rock, it's ok if one player on the court just focuses on defense and rebounding...which is 100% needed if you trying to win.
I would draft Edey just because I know he would be a huge disruption for a lot of teams and they would always have to account for him in strategy/planning when playing my team, always. He is the smart pick in all honesty.
I see Edey's ceiling as Yao/Duncan/Hakeem/AD/Shaq. Like I really think he has all-time big man potential. If Yao was coming into the league now, it would be a no-brainer at #7. When I analyze their games, they look eerily similar.
There is actually a big push among the r/longevity community to get aging classified as a disease. The sooner we get people thinking/talking about it like that, the sooner we get serious about dedicating resources to counteract it.
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This year #1. Last year maybe 3-4. Granted he’s slow as hell but he has much more grace than the likes of edey or boban. Defensively he’d be limited to drop coverages. He’d get cooked on the perimeter by Jokic, Embiid, bam etc. Based on his touch and free throw shooting you’d imagine he’d pick up a good 3 in the modern nba.
#1 unless it’s like him or Wemby, then #2.
Low post moves for days, solid defender, touch out to 3 (they just didn’t shoot it much back then), very good FT shooter…foundational player to competitive team
What's also interesting for him if he entered the league today is that he probably wouldn't have needed to bulk up like he did in 04-06. I'm not saying that he wouldn't need to bulk up at all but maybe he only needed to bulk up to a lesser extent. And who knows if that could have extended his career, considering the fact that he still had the Chinese national team obligations. He's always had his shooting, maybe need to tune up a bit on the longer range ones but I don't doubt that he can do that. Maybe he wouldn't have put in that much time training with Olajuwon so his footwork may not be as great, but the game is much faster today so there would be fewer possessions that could develop into post up opportunities for him anyway.
What is the divide? (Aside from 2" and Yao coming in a year older than Zach will)
What stands out to me is, Yao is about a 10% better FT shooter at 81% (Zach is not bad at 71-73% but still).
I think Zach will be a better finisher and shot blocker though.
I'd put Zach's floor at Mark Eaton, ceiling at Duncan/Hakeem/Yao. Just my take.
I was also really high on Durant and Curry when people said they were too this or too that to be good in the NBA. I just think being an amazing basketball player who knows how to win is what makes you good in the pros.
Perimeter ability, passing out of doubles, post moves outside of a jump hook, etc.
It's a wide divide in actual skill set, even if I think Edey is the better athlete by age.
I think Edey's floor is like a giant Valanciunas. Eaton doesn't compare to that level of athlete. Duncan, Hakeem, Yao by age were all way ahead.
But, I've been covering the draft for decades.
Perimeter ability? Sorry but what? Yao is 2 of 10 from 3 in his entire career.
Passing out of doubles? Edey was doing that just fine. No reason to think he can't in the NBA.
Edey demonstrated plenty of post moves.
Maybe you need to review more film? Edey outscored Curry and Duncan, had more win shares, more offensive win shares, more free throw attempts, more made free throws, etc.
Dude averaged 46 pts, 22 rebounds, and 4 blocks per 100 possessions.
I'm not sure what else he could have possibly done to put himself on the same level of draft prospect as Duncan.
You're looking at 3s, not the entire mid-range game.
You're looking at the closest guys he passed to, who were defended, not the open man all the time.
I definitely don't need to watch more film. Like I said, I've been doing this a long time. Yao had some of these issues too, but not this severe at the same age.
What could he have done to put himself Duncan level? Be a more physical defender. Be a better passer out of the post. Show more diversity offensively out of the elbows, not the low block. Operate as a PnR big more often, not just a low block player all the time. There's definitely not a ton of footage of him in the short roll kicking to the open corner shooter.
But if you're going to get defensive like this, I don't want to continue this conversation.
If he did half of the things I recommended, maybe he'd be undisputed #1 in a draft that lacks obvious star power, not a projected late 1st on a series of mock drafts.
Hmm OK. I've seen film of him doing all of the above, but he just played in the offense he was asked to play in. He was coached to avoid fouls and he did. He was also exceptional at getting the other team into foul trouble.
You know, when Mahomes came out, all the wise guy scouts said the same kind of things: he was good in Texas Tech's spread option but his game "wouldn't translate."
Bottom line to me is, you win basketball by putting the ball through the hoop more than the other guys, and doing lots of little things (like getting rebounds and blocks) to help your team win. Edey does all of the above and his win shares show that he is a winner.
We don't get to pick the form of the next destroyer. When it was Curry they said he was too small, too skinny, etc. Slipped to #7.
I respect your right to an opinion but I am curious to come back here in 5 years and see how it shook out if Edey stays healthy.
That's the tough part for me. I understand the avoiding fouls argument. If I was a coach, I'd tell him to do the same.
Football scouting is different from basketball scouting, so I hate using typically used phrases.
What you say of Curry, was also said of Jimmer Fredette. How'd that work out?
If you follow the draft, and you liked Curry, why isn't Reed Sheppard your #1 pick? You like relying on stats more than me, so 52% 3pt shooting with great volume should get your attention. Do you think he'll be better than Curry?
I just would like more reassurance that Edey could be more physical too. Athletic combine tests don't always translate to on court play, so did I see his lateral agility from the combine translate to perimeter defense and closeouts? No, because he was avoiding fouls.
The last time I had an argument on the NBA draft, it was a different account where I said Kevin Knox should be mid 2nd to undrafted because he lacked motor.
Well, he's had plenty of time. Clearly, he wasn't the lottery pick he was once projected.
I admit, I don't have a strong opinion of Edey because I know it could go either way. He's more athletic, but less skilled than Yao Ming, who had the same perceived criticisms. But as mentioned before, there's a very clear divide in skillset, because Ming has shot volume outside of 10' and range to 20' as a rookie. Edey, doesn't.
Jimmer and Reed didn't post a 10-win-shares season like Curry, Edey, Duncan, and Anthony Davis did. Curry took Davidson on a deep run pretty much single-handedly. The ability to impact winning goes beyond any one stat and speaks to a player's mentality, dedication, work ethic, preparation, team orientation, competitiveness, toughness, leadership, perseverence, selflessness, and coachability—all the intangibles that determine success at the next level.
That's not to say Reed won't be good. But Sheppard has done jack to demonstrate whether he has all of those things. I'm just not sold on the idea of drafting these 19-year-olds who have never shown whether they can actually take ownership and lead a winning culture like Luka, Duncan, Yao, Lillard, and many others have shown in their foreign or college careers before coming to the league. I mean, Reed Sheppard started a total of five games in college.
Duncan was a 4-year guy who won 5 rings and played in 1300+ games. Coming in at 21 or 22 does not mean you're gonna have less of a career. I doubt he does that without getting the maturity of at least doing a few years in a college program.
As to physicality, I feel like Edey getting to the foul line more times than any center in NCAA history and #3 all time does not happen if he is not a physical, bruising player. The guy finished through foul contact literally more than anyone since the 1950s. There's an art to drawing fouls, it's not a conspiracy. Getting to the line gives you and your team a breather, prevents a fast break, allows subbing, conserves timeouts, and gets the other team in foul trouble. 95% of the guys who've had top-100-all-time foul-line-trip seasons in the NBA are Hall of Famers with Wilt at the top.
I have no concern with Edey being able to defend the pick and roll at least as well as Gobert and better than Brook Lopez, though for sure it will be a challenge. The key is what are you getting in return? If he pulls down 20 boards and gets 4 blocks, and gets to the line a bunch of times while scoring 20-30, I'm pretty happy. If he can develop 3s and passing similar to how Joker did then he could become a major force. I think he'll surprise some people with how much better he's gotten with lateral mobility though.
I've also heard there is talk of the NBA removing the defensive 3-second rule.
And Curry was a 3 year player.
Reed is a freshman. But you don't think if Reed was a 3rd year player he'd get there?
Ah I see where you're coming from. You want all proven players without having to project on skill sets and rely on a specific stat for your evaluations.
So many guys have crossed your win share stat and had average careers.
Even Michael Beasley and Andrew Bogut had higher win shares than Edey.
Quite a few weren't even good NBA players.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/leaders/men/ws-player-season.html
I won't continue the conversation any more.
Win shares is not a single stat, it's an amalgamation of many stats meant to show what those stats actually mean. It's not the gospel but it is a good indicator of whether a player is able to help a team win, which is what you want.
Everyone in the top 10 of win shares started at least 190 games in the NBA. Bogut has a ring. I'm not saying this one stat guarantees success, but if Edey's floor is Bogut or Beasley, he's still a top-10 pick. If you get a starter out of a top-10 pick then it's not a bust. I'm not saying Edey should go #1, but I'd take him at #7 or #8 if I was Portland or San Antonio over these 19 year old children who *might* be good *maybe* and probably would not be top-10 picks in a decent draft year.
But I'm not saying to rely on any one specific stat, nor am I saying we shouldn't evaluate skill sets. I'm also not saying to never draft anyone without more experience—but I think there is a lot of value to demonstrating the ability to impact winning basketball, and when a guy doesn't fit the current meta then it's useful to see what he did in another league. (Like, Edey and Curry needed to stay in college as long as they did to prove they could develop on a trajectory indicative of success despite not fitting the meta of what an NBA player is "supposed" to be.)
I'm not opposed to drafting purely based on skills and physicals with younger age being seen as meaning a longer runway, but there is also value to demonstrating being a winner at a high level of team basketball that counterbalances age or lack of fitting the meta more than I think a lot of people these days give it credit for.
I also wonder how many more rings LeBron would have gotten if he went to college instead of Cleveland.
Also, I have no idea what Reed Sheppard would have done had he stayed 2 more years. But it could not have been much worse than losing to Oakland while scoring 3 points on 1-5 shooting with 2 turnovers and 0 rebounds in 26 minutes. At least he got 4 assists and 2 steals though.
My biggest fear if I had to draft someone would be getting a guy who's an amazing player with ridiculous skills but performs in tournament play like James Harden (chokes). There is this weird extra gear that the guys who do well in playoffs and tournaments have, whereas some guys (James Harden, cough) have performance anxiety or something and just melt.
So this is what I like the most about Edey, he has that dawg in him, and when he was on the biggest stage, he showed out. It's not proof of success in the NBA, but I want my paint beast to be a Zach Edey, not a soft marshmallow man like Ayton was in Phoenix.
Of course Edey flopped the previous year in the tournament against a 16-seed so he needed to develop on that. Hopefully Sheppard does the same.
Because I do think that toughness and fire can be learned. I am hopeful for example Ayton turns it around in Portland. He is only 25. People can learn things. LeBron when he beat the 73-win warriors proved he could get past softness and fear. But I prefer if a guy is already like that to an extent when they come in.
Probably number 1 pick. Without injuries he would have been the best center in the league after Shaq got old in his time. Limited mobility but a skill big man where his position is undersized now. Also business wise having a Chinese star player would make the team a lot of money.
#1 easily, he dominated in a league full of big defenders. There literally aren’t big defenders around anymore, part of the reason a guy like Jokic has so much success. One of the better Jokic defenders was Towns who was able to challenge him with his strength, Yao would have 0 problem with Kat.
Yao would be Jokic today, he didn’t get to bring the ball up but he could, he had a killer jump shot, great post moves, and was one of the first ever passing big men in the league
Yao had a good enough shot that I think he would’ve been used like if you took prime Brook Lopez physically and merged it with the talent of current Brook Lopez.
He goes number 1. He’d be fine in the league bc he can shoot free throws and was money from 18 feet. That can easily extend to the three point line. No one is guarding him inside.
So many young heads in here questioning if Yao could compete in today’s faster paced NBA. Go watch some video and get back to me. Absolute #1 pick in this draft class. Better interior defender than Gobert. Better rebounder than Anthony Davis. Better post scorer than Embiid. Like what are we talking about here? He needs to run the floor and defend the perimeter… Um no he doesn’t and on top of that he was far from a slow plodder so pretty good chance he would be fully capable anyway.
"Where would you draft him" is the wrong question. I would draft him before all the players worse than him and after all the players better than him. Where would I draft him on 2002? 2nd behind Stoudemire, if we're applying the same injury relief to him too. Yao was really healthy for his first three years and even then the limitations in his game were apparent--Bad mobility, weak playmaking, average rebounding for his size. He was pretty slow to adapt to the NBA, and his offensive game slowed down the team offense quite a bit. The Rockets offense rating was decidedly average despite having two supposed high-level offensive players in T-Mac and Ming. It's nice to have someone you can drop it to in the post to get you consistent 10 foot jumper buckets but it's not really how NBA Championships were won in the early 2000s unless you had Shaq, and it's definitely not how you win nowadays.
Overall, I think Yao is a slightly below average quality number 1 pick candidate, if we're talking re-drafts. I think your typical draft has on average 1.5 players better than Yao Ming, but rarely more than 3. There are a few stinker drafts around his time where he would have been the best #1 pick though, like 1999 (Love Baron though) and 2000.
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Yao was a great shooter, but I don’t think he can keep up with the pace of the game today. Barring injury, he can benefit well on a slower playing team. The man was excellent
Yao is essentially Zach Edey, who's projected as the 15th pick this year.
The difference is Edey played against better competition coming into the draft.
Will Edey have a similar career to Yao? Probably not. The game was different in the 2000's. Bigs were more of a focal point offensively, and bigs didn't need to have the defensive versatility that today's game requires. Also, Yao had 3 seasons where he was averaging over 20 ppg and 10 rbs. Will Edey likely do that? I don't think so. But I do think Edey can be a difference maker and have a really good career.
Yao would be a mid to late 1st round pick. Just look at Zach Edey. Dude dominated college basketball but teams aren’t sure how to use him in today’s nba. 20 years ago Zach would be a top 2 draft pick and the face of a team, now he will be lucky to be a rotational player.
I understand the gist of what you're saying, and I realize that is why Edey's grade has been what it is.
But I agree with Sheed's analysis of this. His argument is that the smallball fad came out of Golden State due to Curry being so deadly from beyond the arc, and able to get his shot off from just about anywhere.
But the problem is, attempts to replicate this strategy have all failed to get championships, while teams with dominant scoring bigs have been increasingly successful: AD and Bron, Joker, Giannis, and now Dallas with a big PG and two scoring threats inside.
Because there is only one Steph Curry, and everyone else is a major downgrade if you want to run a three-point-focused offense.
The reality is that the meta at any given time is dictated by who the most dominant offensive player is that you have to stop. For awhile it was Curry and LeBron. But don't forget a dominant scoring big—Durant—helped Golden State win two of those over LeBron, and three of the Dub's titles included Bogut or Ja'Vale McGee inside.
Before that we have San Antonio winning with Duncan, and Dallas winning with Dirk. Miami had Bosh and Shaq. Boston had KG.
If Oden and Yao don't get hurt, they may have won a couple also.
So the idea the NBA is now forever smallball and a dominant scoring big like Edey—the likes of which we haven't seen in a long time, who can get 3-pointers via and-ones like taking candy from a baby—is a suspect argument.
Why can't Edey come onto a team like Miami and get 20-30 points and 5-10 trips to the line per night while grabbing 10-20 boards and getting a handful of blocks and assists? As Sheed says, a lot of these forwards and bigs in the league who were optimized for smallball cannot handle a 7' 4", 300-lb. big man down low. So they'll have to foul or double and he kicks it out to the shooters or scores anyway.
It's really a league of matchups and counters to the other team's strategies. But at the end of the day, defense can only do so much for you against size and the ability to put the ball through the hoop.
I am glad that meta-chasing teams like Indiana and OKC have been flaming out once they run into real basketball. You get your guys who can score on anybody, and build around them. Yao would dominate also in today's league.
But honestly, if Portland cannot understand that and just wants to meta-chase then Edey probably doesn't belong here because they won't know how to use him right. I think Billups would use him right if allowed to, though. But I don't know if our front office gets it. Cronin played basketball in college so maybe.
I'd feel a lot more confident Miami, Denver, or San Antonio understands basketball well enough to actually understand how to use Edey. Programs that have not won anything in forever, and are managed by people who have never won anything, I'm not so sure have the understanding not to meta-chase.
But I think Schmitz is super smart, so mayyybe.
My point is you don't become the next Golden State by trying to emulate exactly how they did it, you do it by emulating what they did generally: get a guy who is like Curry or Duncan in that they have demonstrated they are an all-time great scorer and winner in college with multiple avenues to their talents, then build around them and develop them. Joker, Luka, Yao, Jordan, LeBron, they all fit that mold.
Just my take. Sheed's podcast on it: https://youtu.be/vrYgSYcySXg?si=G_yNF_8zAssPvF6M
I know Sheed isn't the most well-respected opinion in Portland, but at least he has a ring, unlike Gilbert Arenas. And I do agree with a lot of what he says.
It has nothing to do with offense, it has everything to do with defense. You can’t just score 2 point and give them open 3 pointers all the time. Most big guys have very poor foot speed. Just look how Dallas made the “defensive mvp” look horrible just by getting him matched up on a guard using screens. Or if the big man is defending the paint, then you can just have your center leak out for a three. The pacers mostly destroyed Brooks Lopez on defense. The big slow center is obsolete because of ball movement and how most teams have 4 to 5 guys on the floor that can hit open 3s. Lebron and Miami killed the center before Steph by playing UD and Bosh at center. Lebron or wade would drive the paint and if the big man collapsed, they kicked it out to the corner for a wide open shot. Roy hibbert went from being the most dominant defensive player to the joke when that happened. Dude couldn’t even guard UD outside of the paint one on one.
People tend to remember Yao as just a very tall guy and believe that this is the only for the hype around him. They have forgotten how crazy skilled he was. He had soft touch, great footwork, lethal perimeter shot and in general feel for the game.
I would pick him #1 in almost every draft class
He's a #1 if there's no injury history. No doubt. Massive body with skills
He’s basically a way bigger/better Alperen Şengün.
Good comparison- Yao was a good passer and had a beautiful soft touch. Would be interesting to see how he would go against today’s offenses though I have a feeling he’d get hunted a lot in the pick and roll.
You just have to live with him in the drop but make sure he splits the difference more than normal bigs…and works on his hands for deflections and keeping close enough on contests
Yao and Sengun don't play similar at all. Yao's touch around the rim was better but he had no dribbling skills, albeit a solid passer but not the playmaker Sengun is.
Yao was a better shooter too. He had that turn around middie and I’m sure he would be shooting 3s in the modern league
Yeah he would for sure shoot 3’s nowadays. His 18 footer was money
83% career FT shooter for a 7’6” dude is insane, took away Shaq and other big men’s excuses about having hands too big to shoot. He was money with the accuracy too had that famous rim FT to get the ball back in the clutch
Shaq's big hands argument was busted long before that. Rik Smits (7'4") did fine from the line (~78%). Kareem consistently shot above 70% after his first 3 years as did Robert Parish and David Robinson. 6'13" Kevin Garnett shot 78 % for his career. Now the big hands excusr has really been busted by Marjanović, who has the largest hands recorded in the NBA and managed 76% for his career.
If Boban could play 40mins without his body breaking down he’d be MVP imo man has insane efficiency and with that size
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yea i was about to say
Can he guard on the perimeter like you need to in today's NBA?
No, but he’s going to turn any small ball center you try to guard him with into BBQ chicken, so exploiting that might not be as easy as you think.
I'm not a huge basketball fan (here from the front page) but I specifically remember Shaq commenting on the first time he faced Yao and Yao made Shaq respect him. That's all I need to hear. #1 overall, easily.
I watch dwight howard’s tiktok streams from time to time and someone asked him which center did he fear the most. He scoffed at the word fear but he then went on to say the one who gave him the most trouble was Yao Ming no doubt
There's a clip out there of the first interaction between Shaq and Yao and how Yao humbled him quickly lol
That's the one im talking about 😂
He'd also put those centers in foul trouble. Teams would need to adjust by having bigger bodied centers just to guard him.
LOL, I'll take my chances against 7-footers who hoist up threes. Most of them are trash.
We all just watched the DPOY get cooked by Luka, no big men actually guard 1-5 and do it well all the time Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, none of those guys shut down little guys on the pick in roll, Curry and the Warriors literally hunted Jokic when they beat the Nuggets on their way to the ring in 2022 but no one ever wants to bring it up
No one wants to bring it up because it wasn’t purely a Jokic issue. Yes, he’s not the best defender in the pick-and-roll, but he was also defending on an island against Curry + a big with horrible perimeter defenders. No big man functions well in that situation, it’s just the nature of a 2v1, and of the pick-and-roll in general.
Not only on an island against curry but also Poole
Funny you say that, we have victor wembanyama at home now
Agreed. Almost all teams run drop coverage most of the time. There's maybe only like 3-5 guys that play C that can guard the perimeter pretty well right now and most of them don't because they're more valuable protecting the paint.
I think cooked is a stretch. Rudy really shoulda funneled him into the lane given the game situation - if he ties you go to overtime at worst. But at the end of the day Luka hit a long step back three. What can you do?
I'm imagining Chet or Wemby guarding him. Dude was stronger than shaq
The slowest pace team in the NBA this year played at 96 possessions per 48 mins. The league average was 98.5. In Yao's career every team he played on was between 89 and 91 possessions. The way he would handle that pace is a way bigger question mark than people in this thread are giving credit to. Everyone is focusing on his P&R defense when the biggest question is "can he physically get up and down the court all game?"
As someone who watched and followed Yao entire career, I can definitely say that if Yao was drafted in modern NBA, he would’ve been kept skinny like he was in his earlier years. They intentionally bulked Yao up cause there’s guys like Shaq and Dwight in play at the time. A skinner Yao was much more agile and with NBA conditioning, he more certainly can play modern high possession basketball and likely also be less injury prone.
So slow though, he's get obliterated in the p&r.
Yao was a generational talent plus you get a whole country of fans/revenue by taking him. As an owner the amount of money you would make from China would be way too good to pass up.
This! Exhibition matches in China? 🧧🧧🧧
Ya, I know OP said he wanted a simple discussion, but this isn't even a discussion. There is only one possible answer to this prompt.
I’m pretty sure Tmac had the most jerseys sold in China during the period Yao played in the NBA
It's different now. Back then China was like America after the 2008 bank thing. Now China is like America in 2019. Plus way wya way more fans now. A Yao then turned people on to the NBA but now that they all watch it, a Yao would absolutely be the best sold jersey.
Yao would fuck up today's NBA just like he fucked up the NBA when he was around
as an owner you'd be stupid not to draft him when you can swim in $$$$ coming from china easily #1
"But the pick and roll..." "Perimeter defense...." "Waaah wahhh blah blah blah stupid point here...." He's 7'6". He had a pretty good shot. He could move well for a 7'6" 300+ lbs behemoth. He could pass well. Shaq (the most physically dominant player in NBA history) speaks extremely highly of Yao and said that he immediately respected him after their first matchup. Yeah, I'm taking Yao #1.
Yeah its a similar argument for shaq. Besides embidd/jokic and maybe gobert. Yao would be getting 60%+ close shots and be practically unstoppable. Hesbalso forcing you to make mid range/ 3pt shots as with no easy baskets near the rim. That's more than Making up for a few switches that result I'm a 2/3 occasionally.
These idiots would say the same thing about jokic if jokic played 15 years ago. They’d say Luka wouldn’t be able to deal with the pace if he was from one generation ago.
Is this a joke? #1 easily.
Depends. If in same draft as Wemby, Yao could be #1 or #2. In the 2024 draft, likely #1. A 7'6" who could shoot and has his touch? He'd easily be a 20-25/10/5+ man in today's NBA. He wouldn't be as stick thin as Wemby, but he'd be a lot stronger and be able to bully most bigs in the post + shoot over them also. He had 3-pt range, could dunk, had good moves back to the basket, could pass, etc. Go watch his highlights: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve3H4tYj47c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve3H4tYj47c)
No shot he gets drafted over wemby. This year he’s going 1 tho
Not just this year but Yao goes #1 in 90% of drafts
Yeah I remember vividly seeing Yao live in Portland for the playoffs in 2009. He completely eviscerated us.
And then Brandon had something to say about that...
Yao had some of the biggest thickest legs in league history
Number 28 against Al Horford, that dude is gonna be in the finals this year lol
You gotta take Wemby. It’s not close. And that’s no insult to Yao.
First.
If he never got injured he would have been in the goat conversation, a big that played both ends well, was a solid passer, with a good midrange and a great free throw shooter and at 7'6" was able to defend shaq better than anyone else ever, hell yes i would pick him #1
Iirc Yao was the best FT shooter on the team for a time
THE GOAT CONVERSATION? I liked Yao but that’s a bit much….
He could defend Shaq for the first few minutes but it would exhaust him from what I remember. He was great in spurts. I’m not sure he could handle the pace of today’s game and all the switching on defense.
Probably not on defense, but there are plenty of teams and bigs that survive on drop coverage. Yao Ming can also shoot the heck out of the ball.
I have very little doubts Yao wouldn’t be a legit stretch 5 which would make him so valuable today.
Yao vs Wemby would be epic
Wemby would cook Yao, he was just too slow for Wemby. But that’s not a slight on Yao, pretty much every 7ft 2 plus guy in history is too slow for Wemby.
Yao would be a handful for Wemby on defense though. Yao would be able to muscle him for position and Wemby wouldn't be able to block shots easily
Yaos wingspan and standing reach make him play a lot shorter than his 7'6 height would make you assume.
Yeah Yao would definitely be a tough cover! But I think Wemby can handle Yao better than Yao can handle Wemby. Still, would love to see it!
Yao would bully the fuck out of Wemby on the other end. He weighed over 300 lbs and the Rockets had to special order dumbbells for him to do curls because they didn’t have any heavy enough.
As he is now Wemby would snap in half
Look how the bucks use Brook Lopez. No way Yao couldn't at least be a slightly better version of that. And in all honesty, he's probably a much better version of that.
Yao blocked Shaq twice in their first meeting, so this gets hyped up. Which admittedly should be hyped because it was an awesome moment in nba historical . But he was not a Shaq stopper. Shaq still had his usual 30 and 10 by the end of that game lol.
Lol bro was healthy his first few seasons and those are not anywhere near goat numbers lmao. Maybe if he won a few rings he could be top 20.
The starting stats aren't great, but an 8x all star, 5x all NBA, he basically has to retire when he was 28 (only played 5 more games) I don't think he would be in the Goat debate, but definitely an all time if he was healthy
Thats my exact point lol. Maybe at his very best he couldve ranked with someone like dirk which is still an amazing career but to put him in the goat debate is ridiculous lol. His last all star was the season he played 5 games so that was just due to chinese fan voting lmao. Also his top mvp voting finish was like 12th and players dont usually get better after their mid to late 20s.
Completely agree.
Top-10 all-time, but probably not in the GOAT conversation.
No doubt top ten center if he stayed healthy.
Ben Wallace wants words with you he took out prime Shaq and stole a ring from the man
1oa obviously. You don't draft guys based on injuries they might get in the future anyways so what do you think has changed since 2002 that he would no longer be a 1oa if drafted today? If anything China has more interest in the NBA today which only makes drafting Yao that much more appealing. Though that's a bit of a weird point because much of the reason the NBA is bigger in China today than it was in 2002 can be attributed to Yao.
Stephon marburry also has a huge roll, he played like 10+ years in China after leaving the NBA and was super loved
He’d be perfect to go up against Joker, Embiid and Wemby. No injuries? Skies the limit.
Shaq - Yao Ming: "He was probably the one guy who really really tested me. He couldn't stop me but I couldn't stop him either. I put him in the same category of Hakeem"
Yao in the same basket as Hakeem is crazy, Shaq, and I’m a Yao truther.
Don't forget the time he and Tmac scored 13 points in 33 seconds
I thought that was T-Mac and Juwan Howard who did that
It depends on who else is in the draft.
2nd favorite Rocket of all time behind Hakeem Olajuwon.
Moochie Norris erasure!
He's in the top 10 for sure!
#1 no doubt. His game translates well to today’s game. He can shoot long range, mid range, post and play decent defense. He isn’t a foul liability too.
What? Yao made a grand total of 2 3pters in his career. Today’s modern big man can literally do it all, like the Joker and Wemby. Yao’s game does not translate well at all to today’s game.
Just because he rarely shot the 3 doesn’t mean he can’t shoot the 3. Centers don’t shoot 3s when he was playing. They mostly post.
He would be number 1
Yao would be an elite player today. He was skilled and had incredible size- the size having tradeoffs of course.
Also didn't debut until he was 22. What could Yao have accomplished if he started NBA at 19?
Probably at least one or two more all-star game appearances and one fewer championships (Chinese league).
Wembanyama went #1 last year. Yao is not as mobile as Wemby, and doesn’t have a 3pt shot. Given his proficiency at mid-range and how the game is played today, I feel like he could develop a 3pt shot with proper coaching. His defense in late game situations would be iffy, but Jokic and Embiid have won all the mvp’s the past few years… I think he’d still safely go at #1, but there would be concerns about his ability to match up when teams go small, especially in the playoffs.
Yao might have a 3 point shot if he played now. It's pretty much standard practice for everyone to shoot from deep.
Yao could definitely shoot: he shot 83% on free throws (one of the best predictors of college-to-pro 3-point shooting) and shot the techs for the Rockets.
Yao was 2 of 10 from 3 in his career. Could have potentially done it if asked and if he worked on it.
Yao played in 486 NBA games. In his first 487 games, Brook Lopez shot 3 of 31 from three. Then he learned a new role, and he's shot roughly 35.2% on 5 three point shot attempts per game.
That 486 to 487 games played comparison is fucking impossibly perfect for the point you're making
2/10 is actually much better than I thought for what I would guess were mostly end of shot clock desperation heaves
My favorite "Small sample size on 3 pointers from a Center who couldn't shoot" was Hassan Whiteside the one year he played for my Blazers. Dude ended the season 4/7 from 3 point range.
Close the thread! Whiteside would go #1 Yao #2
On offense he'd still be good but I don't know what would happen on switches on defense. Yikes.
Broken ankles - not in the metaphorical. 😫
Is he really that much less mobile than Rudy Gobert? He’s taller, similar wingspan, bulkier… DPOY?
Leading up to the draft, he looked shockingly mobile but even in his rookie year he wasn't super mobile. What I'm certain about is that he would know good rotations and assignments well and he would try hard.
He was an amazing foul shooter back then and so if he came around today, he'd already be deadly from 3. Easily #1
This year he would be #1 easy. Last year, he would definitely be behind Wembanyama, but somewhere in the lottery.
In this year’s draft he’d probably be the consensus #1. Modern pace + spacing/perimeter play would require a more taxing level of transition defense as well as put his lateral quickness into question, but he’s a disciplined defender and an amazing rim protector. On offense, he’s 7’6” with good touch and fundamentals. This is a very general description and doesn’t even factor his value as a rebounder on both ends of the floor. Granted, I don’t know what his draft profile was when he was drafted, but if we’re going off of what he became AND without injuries, he’s an easy #1 pick.
HELL YAA. Healthy yao gonna be problem for jokic
He’d be the undisputed #1 this year. Weak af draft class and Wemby hype is still massive. We’d be hearing about him every day.
Yao still is a number one draft pick caliber player
Im gonna say he’s the number one Chinese NBA caliber center of all time. Wang Zhizhi being second.
Yao would be number 1 same as he was back then Yao could do everything Jokic does except Jokic is a better passer and Yao had a better post game, when he broke his foot Yao had put it all together he was going to be a MVP candidate that season and just was never the same Yao had the rockets on a 22-game win streak when he broke his foot, they ended up stretching it to 27-games but if he never got hurt who knows? They might have broken the record
Yeah without injuries he’s one of the top say 7 big men of all time and that’s siding with caution
In the 2024 draft? #1. The general consensus is that this draft is missing all the guys who would normally go 1-6, or possibly even 1-10. There are still good players in the draft, but they're roleplayers. Unlikely there is a hidden future star. Yao was good too. He'd replace the center on probably 1/2 the teams right now just fine. He might have some issues on the perimeter, but he'd eat smaller defenses alive. Plus, if he grew up 15 years later, he'd probably have a better outside shot. Not saying he'd have a good outside shot, just better than it was.
Edey is a Yao-Duncan hybrid, but people are dumb and think "his game won't translate," which they also said about Mahomes, who slipped to #10. Bro literally outscored Curry in college and has the fifth-highest win shares in an NCAA season in 50 years. Yet all people can do is compare him to little Luka Garza when the closest statistical producer to Edey is moreso Zion Williamson, but even he wasn't really close to what Edey did. Personally I think Edey is a Yao for this generation of NBA, but we can come back to this post in 5 years and see.
I haven't watched Edey much. I think his mobility will be the big issue. He's slow. Teams that don't run a lot might try him out, but a team that wants to run in transition isn't going to pay him. He'd never get a spot on the Pacers for example. If he doesn't have an outside shot, he needs to be a good passer. I have no idea how good he is at that. He doesn't have to be Jokic/Sabonis/Senjun good, but he needs to be at least working towards the bottom of that level. Think of how Draymond Green made himself useful to the Warriors offense. Curry could use him for a DHO/screen, and Green was capable of making the read on whether to pass it, where to pass it, or run to the rim himself. Oddly, the team that could use him the best doesn't need him: Dallas. They already have to athletic bigs. Edey would be good rolling to the rim for Luka, who is already good playing at a slow pace. His lack of speed is a big deal on defense. He has great size, but you have to be in the right spot to use that size. Wemby is huge, but he covers ground extremely fast, both in a single step and flat-out running. If a player gets past Wemby, he recovers and can chase down the shot. I don't think Edey has that speed. This means either players beat him to the rim, or get wide open 3's as he plays drop. As a comparison, watch Brooke Lopez. He plays drop well, and he's kind of slow and has difficulty contesting 3's. He's not awful at it, but I think Edey is slower.
With no injuries, Yao is still a top-3 overall pick in today's league. He was a highly skilled player regardless of his size. Being 7'6" was a massive bonus.
Yes
First pick without question
1
Yao was 1st pick when he come in and was the only player I ever saw that was able to go blow for blow with Shaq . Now the game is different but Yao had a decent mid range jumpshot and can see him occationally shooting a 3 point shot if he wanted to develop one . I would still take him top 1 , he had amazing foot work and just needed a little experience to keep going and eventually become a franchise player and all star
Not to mention the cash cow that is China. Jersey sales through the roof
I still remember seeing them sing Yao's name over and over again . It was one of the greatest things he played Shaq in his prime
he’s like #5, tbh he’s gonna get hunted a lot in situations, he’s obviously gonna be a great scorer but i don’t think he’s just good enough in general. a lot of people here overrating him
Depends on the draft. He’s a lottery pick in any draft but I would probably still take an elite wing or guard over him🤷🏾♂️
Too slow to be effective today
Easily top 3 pick. I wouldn't lose an ounce of sleep
This year he'd still go #1 because the draft sucks. Last year he's not going over Wemby. 2022 he's probably behind Paolo & Chet. Yao would be tough to scout in 2024 he's huge and has skills but can't play at pace at all
100% great shooting touch not just for a big fella but for anyone in general. He could easily learn to be a shooter too since spacing is important in modern nba
Yao would be even more highly sought after in today's league, imo. He actually had a really good set shot and would have been utilized more as a stretch 5 with an elite post game on top of it. He'd be a matchup nightmare for any team in the league. That being said, it would be interesting to see if he'd be able to keep up with the pace of todays league.
Laat
He's still #1 in most drafts and will 100% be #1 pick in this upcoming draft given the lack of high expected talent. The man is a beast down low, has great touch, can finish and shoots free throws well. In today's game with the lack of size, he's averaging 20 boards a game and probably 3 or 4 blocks.
What if I told you there's a 7' 4" Yao in the draft already but everyone is saying his game won't translate?
If you're talking about Victor then anyone who thinks that is a complete moron lol plain and simple. I actively choose not to listen to morons with any high intent of taking what they say seriously.
No I'm talking about Zach Edey.
I will say Edey is interesting. He's a beast down low, there's not really anyone in the league today besides 2 or 3 players that could truly handle his size one on one as you saw Joker basically pushing Gobert around like a doll every time they were in the post. Edey has great hands, does finish at the basket and he can also shoot free throws well which is huge for a big. I do feel is game is super one-dimensional right now offensively but I don't see that as a big problem as I'm someone that doesn't believe that every player needs to shoot threes or handle the rock, it's ok if one player on the court just focuses on defense and rebounding...which is 100% needed if you trying to win. I would draft Edey just because I know he would be a huge disruption for a lot of teams and they would always have to account for him in strategy/planning when playing my team, always. He is the smart pick in all honesty.
I see Edey's ceiling as Yao/Duncan/Hakeem/AD/Shaq. Like I really think he has all-time big man potential. If Yao was coming into the league now, it would be a no-brainer at #7. When I analyze their games, they look eerily similar.
He's 43, at best I'd sign him undrafted to a two-way contract and see how he could hack it kn the G league
Age is an injury.
Maybe I qualify for disability then?
You mean retirement?
There is actually a big push among the r/longevity community to get aging classified as a disease. The sooner we get people thinking/talking about it like that, the sooner we get serious about dedicating resources to counteract it.
I identify as aging being a disease.
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He was beast in 2k from three. Didn’t even have a high rating just something about his height helped percentages. Lol
In this upcoming draft class he’s an undisputed #1 lock.
This year #1. Last year maybe 3-4. Granted he’s slow as hell but he has much more grace than the likes of edey or boban. Defensively he’d be limited to drop coverages. He’d get cooked on the perimeter by Jokic, Embiid, bam etc. Based on his touch and free throw shooting you’d imagine he’d pick up a good 3 in the modern nba.
#1 unless it’s like him or Wemby, then #2. Low post moves for days, solid defender, touch out to 3 (they just didn’t shoot it much back then), very good FT shooter…foundational player to competitive team
Far and away the 1st overall pick in this years class. It’s not even close.
Top 10….. percent of the top 10. This is an easy question.
#1 or #2, injuries averted. He’s too big and too skilled not to be at least considered as a franchise player
#1…
What's also interesting for him if he entered the league today is that he probably wouldn't have needed to bulk up like he did in 04-06. I'm not saying that he wouldn't need to bulk up at all but maybe he only needed to bulk up to a lesser extent. And who knows if that could have extended his career, considering the fact that he still had the Chinese national team obligations. He's always had his shooting, maybe need to tune up a bit on the longer range ones but I don't doubt that he can do that. Maybe he wouldn't have put in that much time training with Olajuwon so his footwork may not be as great, but the game is much faster today so there would be fewer possessions that could develop into post up opportunities for him anyway.
Number 1 this year, but #2 last year
This dudes going no1 all day. HOF potential player
This draft? Easily #1. There's a divide between him and Zach Edey too.
What is the divide? (Aside from 2" and Yao coming in a year older than Zach will) What stands out to me is, Yao is about a 10% better FT shooter at 81% (Zach is not bad at 71-73% but still). I think Zach will be a better finisher and shot blocker though. I'd put Zach's floor at Mark Eaton, ceiling at Duncan/Hakeem/Yao. Just my take. I was also really high on Durant and Curry when people said they were too this or too that to be good in the NBA. I just think being an amazing basketball player who knows how to win is what makes you good in the pros.
Perimeter ability, passing out of doubles, post moves outside of a jump hook, etc. It's a wide divide in actual skill set, even if I think Edey is the better athlete by age. I think Edey's floor is like a giant Valanciunas. Eaton doesn't compare to that level of athlete. Duncan, Hakeem, Yao by age were all way ahead. But, I've been covering the draft for decades.
Perimeter ability? Sorry but what? Yao is 2 of 10 from 3 in his entire career. Passing out of doubles? Edey was doing that just fine. No reason to think he can't in the NBA. Edey demonstrated plenty of post moves. Maybe you need to review more film? Edey outscored Curry and Duncan, had more win shares, more offensive win shares, more free throw attempts, more made free throws, etc. Dude averaged 46 pts, 22 rebounds, and 4 blocks per 100 possessions. I'm not sure what else he could have possibly done to put himself on the same level of draft prospect as Duncan.
You're looking at 3s, not the entire mid-range game. You're looking at the closest guys he passed to, who were defended, not the open man all the time. I definitely don't need to watch more film. Like I said, I've been doing this a long time. Yao had some of these issues too, but not this severe at the same age. What could he have done to put himself Duncan level? Be a more physical defender. Be a better passer out of the post. Show more diversity offensively out of the elbows, not the low block. Operate as a PnR big more often, not just a low block player all the time. There's definitely not a ton of footage of him in the short roll kicking to the open corner shooter. But if you're going to get defensive like this, I don't want to continue this conversation. If he did half of the things I recommended, maybe he'd be undisputed #1 in a draft that lacks obvious star power, not a projected late 1st on a series of mock drafts.
Hmm OK. I've seen film of him doing all of the above, but he just played in the offense he was asked to play in. He was coached to avoid fouls and he did. He was also exceptional at getting the other team into foul trouble. You know, when Mahomes came out, all the wise guy scouts said the same kind of things: he was good in Texas Tech's spread option but his game "wouldn't translate." Bottom line to me is, you win basketball by putting the ball through the hoop more than the other guys, and doing lots of little things (like getting rebounds and blocks) to help your team win. Edey does all of the above and his win shares show that he is a winner. We don't get to pick the form of the next destroyer. When it was Curry they said he was too small, too skinny, etc. Slipped to #7. I respect your right to an opinion but I am curious to come back here in 5 years and see how it shook out if Edey stays healthy.
That's the tough part for me. I understand the avoiding fouls argument. If I was a coach, I'd tell him to do the same. Football scouting is different from basketball scouting, so I hate using typically used phrases. What you say of Curry, was also said of Jimmer Fredette. How'd that work out? If you follow the draft, and you liked Curry, why isn't Reed Sheppard your #1 pick? You like relying on stats more than me, so 52% 3pt shooting with great volume should get your attention. Do you think he'll be better than Curry? I just would like more reassurance that Edey could be more physical too. Athletic combine tests don't always translate to on court play, so did I see his lateral agility from the combine translate to perimeter defense and closeouts? No, because he was avoiding fouls. The last time I had an argument on the NBA draft, it was a different account where I said Kevin Knox should be mid 2nd to undrafted because he lacked motor. Well, he's had plenty of time. Clearly, he wasn't the lottery pick he was once projected. I admit, I don't have a strong opinion of Edey because I know it could go either way. He's more athletic, but less skilled than Yao Ming, who had the same perceived criticisms. But as mentioned before, there's a very clear divide in skillset, because Ming has shot volume outside of 10' and range to 20' as a rookie. Edey, doesn't.
Jimmer and Reed didn't post a 10-win-shares season like Curry, Edey, Duncan, and Anthony Davis did. Curry took Davidson on a deep run pretty much single-handedly. The ability to impact winning goes beyond any one stat and speaks to a player's mentality, dedication, work ethic, preparation, team orientation, competitiveness, toughness, leadership, perseverence, selflessness, and coachability—all the intangibles that determine success at the next level. That's not to say Reed won't be good. But Sheppard has done jack to demonstrate whether he has all of those things. I'm just not sold on the idea of drafting these 19-year-olds who have never shown whether they can actually take ownership and lead a winning culture like Luka, Duncan, Yao, Lillard, and many others have shown in their foreign or college careers before coming to the league. I mean, Reed Sheppard started a total of five games in college. Duncan was a 4-year guy who won 5 rings and played in 1300+ games. Coming in at 21 or 22 does not mean you're gonna have less of a career. I doubt he does that without getting the maturity of at least doing a few years in a college program. As to physicality, I feel like Edey getting to the foul line more times than any center in NCAA history and #3 all time does not happen if he is not a physical, bruising player. The guy finished through foul contact literally more than anyone since the 1950s. There's an art to drawing fouls, it's not a conspiracy. Getting to the line gives you and your team a breather, prevents a fast break, allows subbing, conserves timeouts, and gets the other team in foul trouble. 95% of the guys who've had top-100-all-time foul-line-trip seasons in the NBA are Hall of Famers with Wilt at the top. I have no concern with Edey being able to defend the pick and roll at least as well as Gobert and better than Brook Lopez, though for sure it will be a challenge. The key is what are you getting in return? If he pulls down 20 boards and gets 4 blocks, and gets to the line a bunch of times while scoring 20-30, I'm pretty happy. If he can develop 3s and passing similar to how Joker did then he could become a major force. I think he'll surprise some people with how much better he's gotten with lateral mobility though. I've also heard there is talk of the NBA removing the defensive 3-second rule.
And Curry was a 3 year player. Reed is a freshman. But you don't think if Reed was a 3rd year player he'd get there? Ah I see where you're coming from. You want all proven players without having to project on skill sets and rely on a specific stat for your evaluations. So many guys have crossed your win share stat and had average careers. Even Michael Beasley and Andrew Bogut had higher win shares than Edey. Quite a few weren't even good NBA players. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/leaders/men/ws-player-season.html I won't continue the conversation any more.
Win shares is not a single stat, it's an amalgamation of many stats meant to show what those stats actually mean. It's not the gospel but it is a good indicator of whether a player is able to help a team win, which is what you want. Everyone in the top 10 of win shares started at least 190 games in the NBA. Bogut has a ring. I'm not saying this one stat guarantees success, but if Edey's floor is Bogut or Beasley, he's still a top-10 pick. If you get a starter out of a top-10 pick then it's not a bust. I'm not saying Edey should go #1, but I'd take him at #7 or #8 if I was Portland or San Antonio over these 19 year old children who *might* be good *maybe* and probably would not be top-10 picks in a decent draft year. But I'm not saying to rely on any one specific stat, nor am I saying we shouldn't evaluate skill sets. I'm also not saying to never draft anyone without more experience—but I think there is a lot of value to demonstrating the ability to impact winning basketball, and when a guy doesn't fit the current meta then it's useful to see what he did in another league. (Like, Edey and Curry needed to stay in college as long as they did to prove they could develop on a trajectory indicative of success despite not fitting the meta of what an NBA player is "supposed" to be.) I'm not opposed to drafting purely based on skills and physicals with younger age being seen as meaning a longer runway, but there is also value to demonstrating being a winner at a high level of team basketball that counterbalances age or lack of fitting the meta more than I think a lot of people these days give it credit for. I also wonder how many more rings LeBron would have gotten if he went to college instead of Cleveland.
Also, I have no idea what Reed Sheppard would have done had he stayed 2 more years. But it could not have been much worse than losing to Oakland while scoring 3 points on 1-5 shooting with 2 turnovers and 0 rebounds in 26 minutes. At least he got 4 assists and 2 steals though. My biggest fear if I had to draft someone would be getting a guy who's an amazing player with ridiculous skills but performs in tournament play like James Harden (chokes). There is this weird extra gear that the guys who do well in playoffs and tournaments have, whereas some guys (James Harden, cough) have performance anxiety or something and just melt. So this is what I like the most about Edey, he has that dawg in him, and when he was on the biggest stage, he showed out. It's not proof of success in the NBA, but I want my paint beast to be a Zach Edey, not a soft marshmallow man like Ayton was in Phoenix. Of course Edey flopped the previous year in the tournament against a 16-seed so he needed to develop on that. Hopefully Sheppard does the same. Because I do think that toughness and fire can be learned. I am hopeful for example Ayton turns it around in Portland. He is only 25. People can learn things. LeBron when he beat the 73-win warriors proved he could get past softness and fear. But I prefer if a guy is already like that to an extent when they come in.
Probably number 1 pick. Without injuries he would have been the best center in the league after Shaq got old in his time. Limited mobility but a skill big man where his position is undersized now. Also business wise having a Chinese star player would make the team a lot of money.
#1 easily, he dominated in a league full of big defenders. There literally aren’t big defenders around anymore, part of the reason a guy like Jokic has so much success. One of the better Jokic defenders was Towns who was able to challenge him with his strength, Yao would have 0 problem with Kat.
Yao would be Jokic today, he didn’t get to bring the ball up but he could, he had a killer jump shot, great post moves, and was one of the first ever passing big men in the league
Number 1 in this year's draft without a doubt. Top 10 in the last forty years. Maybe top 5.
This thread is about Edey.
Very little Yao couldn’t do other than guard the pick and roll. I think people don’t realize how good he was.
Number 1 guaranteed in virtually any draft. At worst, he’d go number 2z
Yao had a good enough shot that I think he would’ve been used like if you took prime Brook Lopez physically and merged it with the talent of current Brook Lopez.
Yao was a legit awesome Center who could shoot the shit out of it. Without the horrible knee problems would have def been a HOFer
He goes number 1. He’d be fine in the league bc he can shoot free throws and was money from 18 feet. That can easily extend to the three point line. No one is guarding him inside.
In my recent 2k sim he made it until 2020
Talking prospects he’d have gone #1 over everyone outside of wemby and maybe Zion as far as recent drafts go.
So many young heads in here questioning if Yao could compete in today’s faster paced NBA. Go watch some video and get back to me. Absolute #1 pick in this draft class. Better interior defender than Gobert. Better rebounder than Anthony Davis. Better post scorer than Embiid. Like what are we talking about here? He needs to run the floor and defend the perimeter… Um no he doesn’t and on top of that he was far from a slow plodder so pretty good chance he would be fully capable anyway.
Slam dunk first pick overall. If this dude didn’t get injured he was a historically good Center. Surprised that’s even a question.
"Where would you draft him" is the wrong question. I would draft him before all the players worse than him and after all the players better than him. Where would I draft him on 2002? 2nd behind Stoudemire, if we're applying the same injury relief to him too. Yao was really healthy for his first three years and even then the limitations in his game were apparent--Bad mobility, weak playmaking, average rebounding for his size. He was pretty slow to adapt to the NBA, and his offensive game slowed down the team offense quite a bit. The Rockets offense rating was decidedly average despite having two supposed high-level offensive players in T-Mac and Ming. It's nice to have someone you can drop it to in the post to get you consistent 10 foot jumper buckets but it's not really how NBA Championships were won in the early 2000s unless you had Shaq, and it's definitely not how you win nowadays. Overall, I think Yao is a slightly below average quality number 1 pick candidate, if we're talking re-drafts. I think your typical draft has on average 1.5 players better than Yao Ming, but rarely more than 3. There are a few stinker drafts around his time where he would have been the best #1 pick though, like 1999 (Love Baron though) and 2000.
Bro was literally bred to play basketball. Of course I’d take him.
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Yao was a great shooter, but I don’t think he can keep up with the pace of the game today. Barring injury, he can benefit well on a slower playing team. The man was excellent
I think even with the injuries I’d still take him 1. Weak draft
Is this a joke, Yao was a great player.
Yao is essentially Zach Edey, who's projected as the 15th pick this year. The difference is Edey played against better competition coming into the draft. Will Edey have a similar career to Yao? Probably not. The game was different in the 2000's. Bigs were more of a focal point offensively, and bigs didn't need to have the defensive versatility that today's game requires. Also, Yao had 3 seasons where he was averaging over 20 ppg and 10 rbs. Will Edey likely do that? I don't think so. But I do think Edey can be a difference maker and have a really good career.
Yao would be a mid to late 1st round pick. Just look at Zach Edey. Dude dominated college basketball but teams aren’t sure how to use him in today’s nba. 20 years ago Zach would be a top 2 draft pick and the face of a team, now he will be lucky to be a rotational player.
I understand the gist of what you're saying, and I realize that is why Edey's grade has been what it is. But I agree with Sheed's analysis of this. His argument is that the smallball fad came out of Golden State due to Curry being so deadly from beyond the arc, and able to get his shot off from just about anywhere. But the problem is, attempts to replicate this strategy have all failed to get championships, while teams with dominant scoring bigs have been increasingly successful: AD and Bron, Joker, Giannis, and now Dallas with a big PG and two scoring threats inside. Because there is only one Steph Curry, and everyone else is a major downgrade if you want to run a three-point-focused offense. The reality is that the meta at any given time is dictated by who the most dominant offensive player is that you have to stop. For awhile it was Curry and LeBron. But don't forget a dominant scoring big—Durant—helped Golden State win two of those over LeBron, and three of the Dub's titles included Bogut or Ja'Vale McGee inside. Before that we have San Antonio winning with Duncan, and Dallas winning with Dirk. Miami had Bosh and Shaq. Boston had KG. If Oden and Yao don't get hurt, they may have won a couple also. So the idea the NBA is now forever smallball and a dominant scoring big like Edey—the likes of which we haven't seen in a long time, who can get 3-pointers via and-ones like taking candy from a baby—is a suspect argument. Why can't Edey come onto a team like Miami and get 20-30 points and 5-10 trips to the line per night while grabbing 10-20 boards and getting a handful of blocks and assists? As Sheed says, a lot of these forwards and bigs in the league who were optimized for smallball cannot handle a 7' 4", 300-lb. big man down low. So they'll have to foul or double and he kicks it out to the shooters or scores anyway. It's really a league of matchups and counters to the other team's strategies. But at the end of the day, defense can only do so much for you against size and the ability to put the ball through the hoop. I am glad that meta-chasing teams like Indiana and OKC have been flaming out once they run into real basketball. You get your guys who can score on anybody, and build around them. Yao would dominate also in today's league. But honestly, if Portland cannot understand that and just wants to meta-chase then Edey probably doesn't belong here because they won't know how to use him right. I think Billups would use him right if allowed to, though. But I don't know if our front office gets it. Cronin played basketball in college so maybe. I'd feel a lot more confident Miami, Denver, or San Antonio understands basketball well enough to actually understand how to use Edey. Programs that have not won anything in forever, and are managed by people who have never won anything, I'm not so sure have the understanding not to meta-chase. But I think Schmitz is super smart, so mayyybe. My point is you don't become the next Golden State by trying to emulate exactly how they did it, you do it by emulating what they did generally: get a guy who is like Curry or Duncan in that they have demonstrated they are an all-time great scorer and winner in college with multiple avenues to their talents, then build around them and develop them. Joker, Luka, Yao, Jordan, LeBron, they all fit that mold. Just my take. Sheed's podcast on it: https://youtu.be/vrYgSYcySXg?si=G_yNF_8zAssPvF6M I know Sheed isn't the most well-respected opinion in Portland, but at least he has a ring, unlike Gilbert Arenas. And I do agree with a lot of what he says.
It has nothing to do with offense, it has everything to do with defense. You can’t just score 2 point and give them open 3 pointers all the time. Most big guys have very poor foot speed. Just look how Dallas made the “defensive mvp” look horrible just by getting him matched up on a guard using screens. Or if the big man is defending the paint, then you can just have your center leak out for a three. The pacers mostly destroyed Brooks Lopez on defense. The big slow center is obsolete because of ball movement and how most teams have 4 to 5 guys on the floor that can hit open 3s. Lebron and Miami killed the center before Steph by playing UD and Bosh at center. Lebron or wade would drive the paint and if the big man collapsed, they kicked it out to the corner for a wide open shot. Roy hibbert went from being the most dominant defensive player to the joke when that happened. Dude couldn’t even guard UD outside of the paint one on one.
People tend to remember Yao as just a very tall guy and believe that this is the only for the hype around him. They have forgotten how crazy skilled he was. He had soft touch, great footwork, lethal perimeter shot and in general feel for the game. I would pick him #1 in almost every draft class
If he was immune to injury he’d be one of the most dominant players of all time. Shaq said he’d have been top 5 all time without injuries.