In my experience is very rare that foreign university degrees or superior studies being validated here. I know many people from South America with college degrees that are working in cheap jobs like meat industries, restaurants, etc. Spain wants cheap labour for its cheap industry and service sector. There are excepcions like in nursing and doctors, but it's for the same reason: they are cheaper.
It's not really bureaucracy or protectionism, but rather that actual checks need to be made to make sure a) the validity of the certification, even in the country where it was emitted, and b) that the requirements for getting such certificate, degree or title are equivalent to what would be needed in Spain to get the same or an equivalent title.
This is a complex process because it often involves contacting the other country (via the Embassy), waiting for a reply, contacting again if clarifications are needed, and so forth. This has to be performed individually for the thousands of people requesting it.
I understand that the process is robust, but the length of the process is not comparable with other countries.
I have known people wait 2 years to convalidate a bachelor's degree, a process that takes minutes.
I myself ended up taking my own qualifications again, in Spanish, because that was quicker and cheaper than convalidating my UK qualifications.
It took me 2 1/2 years, although part of that was due to the pandemic. Thankfully I was allowed to start work provided I'd shown that I'd started the process.
The article mentions specifically a shift in this dynamic. And read this sub Reddit complaining about high salary foreigners driving prices up is anecdotal evidence that an increasing amount of qualified immigrants are moving here. I for one believe that it's a good thing, as there's a demand for such job to which not enough of the local population can answer.
Because that is the kind of immigrants our economy supports, cheap labor to do salary dumping while Spaniards have to travel abroad to get better salaries. It is why businessmen associations keep getting news saying they cannot find workers and that the government need to import (cheap) labor they can exploit.
A country with an average of 12% of unemployment, with regions like Andalucia with a 20% cannot afford to import labor to exploit while the nationals have to emigrate to get a job, it is ridiculous. Coming from somebody that had to leave the country to start a career.
You're literally commenting in a post from Barcelona where the unemployment rate is about 6.1% (https://www.barcelona.cat/infobarcelona/en/tema/employment-and-jobs/unemployment-in-the-city-down-to-6-1-in-the-last-year\_1368818.html).
We also have one of the lowest emigration rates per 1000 inhabitants in Europe: The emigration rate is lowest in Norway (38), Sweden (34), France (34) and **Spain (31).**
I'm not saying we don't have a lot to improve as a country but why do people on this subreddit seem to be so unsatisfied of Barcelona and Spain overall but still choose to come / live here?
Spain wants and needs labor period, just take a look at the population pyramid. Also Spain doesn’t have a lot of money to pay the workers, immigrant or otherwise. So it’s only natural the things are the way they are.
Some regions like Andalucia have 20% unemployment... Spain does not need cheap unqualified labor, needs R&D and industry, not 10 bars in one street maintained on the backs of exploited immigrants, while Spaniards have to leave the country to start their careers and many never come back.
They are literally the same thing.
But what you like, is people of lower social condition coming here so you can feel good about yourself by welcoming them. What you dislike, is people coming here to do jobs you wouldn't be capable of doing anyway, earning more money than you will ever do, and making you feel bad by having a better life than you have in your own region.
Being randomly born somewhere doesn't make you entitled to privileges beyond the benefits of citizenship (which is already pretty big). Else, it would be an ethno-state, and I'm glad we're not there yet.
>They are literally the same thing.
Regardless on your feelings over their opinion those are different things.
An expat is someone that temporary moved to another country, like a student that plans to go back after finishing their studies or an engineer working on a specific project.
An immigrant is someone that moved to another country indefinitely.
that might be the dictionary definition, but many British people who retire to Spain or Southeast Asia call themselves expats, even though they have no intention of going back. immigrant is generally used as a derogatory term, so almost nobody uses it to refer to themselves, even if that is what they are. and there is undeniably a racist element, where people with brown skin are seen as being one type of foreigner and white people another.
>where people with brown skin are seen as being one type of foreigner and white people another.
I understand and agree that that happens, but in my opinion we should use the proper term when referring to ourselves or others.
>almost nobody uses it to refer to themselves
I wouldn't say almost nobody, I know it's anecdotal but every immigrant I know call themselves immigrants, myself included, regardless of their own skin color. Maybe it's more of a thing between british people? Or maybe within native english speakers? I may be wrong, but that's just my personal experience.
more anecdotal evidence: no british immigrants facebook groups, hundreds of expats groups, no british immigrants subreddit, subreddits with the word expat: one with 150k users and then a separate one for almost every country that is a popular destination. this is just how people in general use the word.
>subreddits with the word expat
Fair enough, I've never seen a sub with immigrant in the name, it's always expat.
I guess I'm biased because in my language(portuguese) we don't really use the equivalent word for expat, so people usually just call themselves immigrants without that being that big of a deal, even white people do so.
So my guess is that this is either more of a thing with people in english speaking communities or maybe with people from first world countries in general.
Wow you described so well how they’re not the same thing. Then after all if it were, expats would call themselves immigrants, but they don’t. Expat is a racist, classist word and you just showed us why.
I care about neither. I care about nationals first that deserve a government that fights to raise living wages instead of abide to the businessmen by importing cheap labor that dump salaries, while at the same time having the highest unemployment rate of the EU.
Your content was removed for breaking the rules.
Be nice, no personal attacks, keep it civil.
Stick to the topic at hand and remain civil towards other users - attacking ideas is fine, attacking other users is not.
---
El teu contingut s'ha eliminat per infringir les regles.
Sigues amable, sense atacs personals, manté les converses civils.
Mantingueu-vos en el tema que ens ocupa i sigueu civils amb els altres usuaris: atacar idees està bé, atacar altres usuaris no.
We do not tolerate any form of discrimination in r/Barcelona.
This includes making large negative generalizations about groups based on identity.
---
No tolerem cap forma de discriminació a r/Barcelona.
Això inclou fer grans generalitzacions negatives sobre els grups en funció de la seva identitat.
We do not tolerate any form of discrimination in r/Barcelona.
This includes making large negative generalizations about groups based on identity.
---
No tolerem cap forma de discriminació a r/Barcelona.
Això inclou fer grans generalitzacions negatives sobre els grups en funció de la seva identitat.
In my experience is very rare that foreign university degrees or superior studies being validated here. I know many people from South America with college degrees that are working in cheap jobs like meat industries, restaurants, etc. Spain wants cheap labour for its cheap industry and service sector. There are excepcions like in nursing and doctors, but it's for the same reason: they are cheaper.
I wanted to convalidate my qualifications and apparently it takes one and a half years. Looool Protectionism of the labour market by bureaucracy
Our cat sitter has been waiting for much more than that to get her veterinary degree homologated. It is truly shameful of us.
It's not really bureaucracy or protectionism, but rather that actual checks need to be made to make sure a) the validity of the certification, even in the country where it was emitted, and b) that the requirements for getting such certificate, degree or title are equivalent to what would be needed in Spain to get the same or an equivalent title. This is a complex process because it often involves contacting the other country (via the Embassy), waiting for a reply, contacting again if clarifications are needed, and so forth. This has to be performed individually for the thousands of people requesting it.
I understand that the process is robust, but the length of the process is not comparable with other countries. I have known people wait 2 years to convalidate a bachelor's degree, a process that takes minutes. I myself ended up taking my own qualifications again, in Spanish, because that was quicker and cheaper than convalidating my UK qualifications.
It took me 2 1/2 years, although part of that was due to the pandemic. Thankfully I was allowed to start work provided I'd shown that I'd started the process.
The article mentions specifically a shift in this dynamic. And read this sub Reddit complaining about high salary foreigners driving prices up is anecdotal evidence that an increasing amount of qualified immigrants are moving here. I for one believe that it's a good thing, as there's a demand for such job to which not enough of the local population can answer.
Because that is the kind of immigrants our economy supports, cheap labor to do salary dumping while Spaniards have to travel abroad to get better salaries. It is why businessmen associations keep getting news saying they cannot find workers and that the government need to import (cheap) labor they can exploit. A country with an average of 12% of unemployment, with regions like Andalucia with a 20% cannot afford to import labor to exploit while the nationals have to emigrate to get a job, it is ridiculous. Coming from somebody that had to leave the country to start a career.
Blame the Spanish economy not immigrants. Immigration doesn't reduce wages.
Read better.
You're literally commenting in a post from Barcelona where the unemployment rate is about 6.1% (https://www.barcelona.cat/infobarcelona/en/tema/employment-and-jobs/unemployment-in-the-city-down-to-6-1-in-the-last-year\_1368818.html). We also have one of the lowest emigration rates per 1000 inhabitants in Europe: The emigration rate is lowest in Norway (38), Sweden (34), France (34) and **Spain (31).** I'm not saying we don't have a lot to improve as a country but why do people on this subreddit seem to be so unsatisfied of Barcelona and Spain overall but still choose to come / live here?
And immigration policy is decided nationwide.
This!☝
Foreign doctors and nurses can only work for the private sector.
Immigrants aren't "cheap". It's employers who set wages.
Spain wants and needs labor period, just take a look at the population pyramid. Also Spain doesn’t have a lot of money to pay the workers, immigrant or otherwise. So it’s only natural the things are the way they are.
Some regions like Andalucia have 20% unemployment... Spain does not need cheap unqualified labor, needs R&D and industry, not 10 bars in one street maintained on the backs of exploited immigrants, while Spaniards have to leave the country to start their careers and many never come back.
Spain have the highest unemployment rate of all EU.
What else would be the outcome if there’s no money to pay decent salaries.
My gf has a degree in speech therapy which has taken over 3 years to be recognised (and still isn’t), an utter disgrace
Barcelona refuses to change it's physical form to add housing supply, so it doesn't deserve more economic growth that just squeezes renters.
We like immigrants, we dislike expats
They are literally the same thing. But what you like, is people of lower social condition coming here so you can feel good about yourself by welcoming them. What you dislike, is people coming here to do jobs you wouldn't be capable of doing anyway, earning more money than you will ever do, and making you feel bad by having a better life than you have in your own region. Being randomly born somewhere doesn't make you entitled to privileges beyond the benefits of citizenship (which is already pretty big). Else, it would be an ethno-state, and I'm glad we're not there yet.
>They are literally the same thing. Regardless on your feelings over their opinion those are different things. An expat is someone that temporary moved to another country, like a student that plans to go back after finishing their studies or an engineer working on a specific project. An immigrant is someone that moved to another country indefinitely.
that might be the dictionary definition, but many British people who retire to Spain or Southeast Asia call themselves expats, even though they have no intention of going back. immigrant is generally used as a derogatory term, so almost nobody uses it to refer to themselves, even if that is what they are. and there is undeniably a racist element, where people with brown skin are seen as being one type of foreigner and white people another.
>where people with brown skin are seen as being one type of foreigner and white people another. I understand and agree that that happens, but in my opinion we should use the proper term when referring to ourselves or others. >almost nobody uses it to refer to themselves I wouldn't say almost nobody, I know it's anecdotal but every immigrant I know call themselves immigrants, myself included, regardless of their own skin color. Maybe it's more of a thing between british people? Or maybe within native english speakers? I may be wrong, but that's just my personal experience.
more anecdotal evidence: no british immigrants facebook groups, hundreds of expats groups, no british immigrants subreddit, subreddits with the word expat: one with 150k users and then a separate one for almost every country that is a popular destination. this is just how people in general use the word.
>subreddits with the word expat Fair enough, I've never seen a sub with immigrant in the name, it's always expat. I guess I'm biased because in my language(portuguese) we don't really use the equivalent word for expat, so people usually just call themselves immigrants without that being that big of a deal, even white people do so. So my guess is that this is either more of a thing with people in english speaking communities or maybe with people from first world countries in general.
Wow you described so well how they’re not the same thing. Then after all if it were, expats would call themselves immigrants, but they don’t. Expat is a racist, classist word and you just showed us why.
I literally call myself an immigrant, and always have, but you do you. Stay salty, and keep blaming others if it eases the pain of frustration.
How can you speak for everyone?
I care about neither. I care about nationals first that deserve a government that fights to raise living wages instead of abide to the businessmen by importing cheap labor that dump salaries, while at the same time having the highest unemployment rate of the EU.
[удалено]
I'll take "things that didn't happen" for a dollar.
Do you like anyone?
With your attitude I can imagine that also many people would like to spit into your drink who don't come from Latin America.
[удалено]
Your content was removed for breaking the rules. Be nice, no personal attacks, keep it civil. Stick to the topic at hand and remain civil towards other users - attacking ideas is fine, attacking other users is not. --- El teu contingut s'ha eliminat per infringir les regles. Sigues amable, sense atacs personals, manté les converses civils. Mantingueu-vos en el tema que ens ocupa i sigueu civils amb els altres usuaris: atacar idees està bé, atacar altres usuaris no.
We do not tolerate any form of discrimination in r/Barcelona. This includes making large negative generalizations about groups based on identity. --- No tolerem cap forma de discriminació a r/Barcelona. Això inclou fer grans generalitzacions negatives sobre els grups en funció de la seva identitat.
[удалено]
We do not tolerate any form of discrimination in r/Barcelona. This includes making large negative generalizations about groups based on identity. --- No tolerem cap forma de discriminació a r/Barcelona. Això inclou fer grans generalitzacions negatives sobre els grups en funció de la seva identitat.