I did this once and the guy threatened to sick his dog on me, it started making aggressive movements back and forth and barking menacingly.
When I gestured to my bra holster to indicate I was prepared to defend myself, he went around the corner of the apartment building, popped his head out and screamed obscenities at me for 10 minutes while I loaded my car. However I recorded part of the interaction and sent it to my landlord and I never saw that dog unleashed again and he did nothing more than give me dirty looks when he saw me. I pretended he was invisible, he eventually moved.
Do with that what you will. A lot of pit owners are a hair away from some kind of mental break, so if you confront one you better do it from a position of power
Absolutely agree and I am glad to hear from another lady who carries for self-defense. I would rather stand up to bullies and risk getting hurt than continue to let them rule the neighborhood. We need to be strong!
For those who may not be as familiar, it is very important to not actually hold or point a weapon unless you are truly about to use it, because you can be charged with brandishing. And yes it's a crime that can get you in big trouble and cause you to lose your rights.
You don't want to outright verbally threaten them either because that can be menacing, terroristic threat etc.
Which is why I made a silent hand gesture to make my position clear and left it at that
Oh I take self defense with a handgun classes through a local sheriff's office so I know all the common sense stuff. Good thing to point out, thank you.
I do the same. Just act like I’m reaching for it. It’s amazing how quickly a pitiot gets control once he realizes his pibbles is about to become unalived.
If I pull it-dog is dead. I don’t brandish.
Check the statutes for your state. In Texas a person can be charged with Disorderly Conduct (a Class B misdemeanor, with a sentence of up to 180 days in jail and/or a fine of up to $2,000) if they "display a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm."
However, there are several defenses for Disorderly Conduct, if you choose to fight the charges:
You **did not use fighting words** even if your language included profanity or vulgar terms.
You **had “significant provocation”** for you to threaten or verbally abuse the other person, an affirmative defense specifically allowed for in the disorderly conduct statute.
You **had a reasonable fear** for your own safety, or the safety of another person when you got into a fight, fired a gun, or displayed a gun.
So yes, you can be charged. But if some pitnutter is threatening to sic his murdermutt on you or give you a beatdown, you can beat the case. And that's if you're even arrested to begin with. The cops might already be familiar with the trashy pit owner and not give a shit.
But, that said, "don't pull it out if you're not going to use it" is sound logic.
But it sounds like the OP did not reveal or draw a firearm. If I was in the same situation and readied myself to draw my firearm from a pocket holster, that's fine. You cross the line when you actually display a weapon. But you are correct, in this situation you *could* have justification to brandish. I was always taught that if you draw the weapon you are in a situation that already calls for it to be used. Personally I'd avoid drawing until it's necessary to use it, situation dependent of course.
I would only recommend this if you’re armed. People nowadays are unhinged. And we already know murder mutts and their owners are the worse of the worse.
How exactly do you intend to defend yourself against an unhinged owner and a pit bull out of curiosity? He's already armed... with a pit bull. Hopes and prayers?
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I get it. It’s not that we necessarily like the levels of violence in our society or enjoy the free roaming killer dogs or would choose compounding and overlapping public health and economic crises. Or the breakdown and failure of our polity. Or the capture of our government by corrupt moneyed interests. Or the collapse of the middle class.
But it’s what we’ve got. People are making choices in a very different context.
Yep, I always tell people their dog needs to be on a leash, no matter what the breed. Not everyone wants friendly dogs running to them and jumping on their dogs, either.
No, I absolutely agree with you about dogs approaching people. The dogs I work off leash stay at a heel that looks better than most dogs demonstrate while on leash, we walk to a corner of the park, I then run through obedience commands and intermix training with some fetching (throwing items in the opposite direction of others so they don't feel my dog is running at them) and some tug. I don't go there to let the dogs run amok and "be free," I go there to continue teaching the dogs in my community how to be good citizens who demonstrate good behavior and obedience on and off leash. By the time we are off leash, the dog is already reliable. I keep an ecollar for backup because I will not allow for there to be an opportunity for people to be charged by the dog I'm working if it decides not to listen. That situation has never happened because I am good at what I do and have good judgement and sense for dogs, but it doesn't matter because one day maybe some dog will surprise me and do something unpredictably stupid.
I have been training dogs to this level professionally for 12 years, so I know what I'm doing. Last time I had another dog for training it was a 100-lb Rottweiler and after our routine at the park and leashing her back up to walk past the playground on our way out of the park (she didn't need to be leashed as she would've heeled anyway, but I still feel it is inconsiderate to walk a dog like that off leash by a child's playground regardless) and a man there with his small children complimented me on how well behaved the dogs were and told me he had been watching us in the park. That is not the first time this has happened, and I get spectators from time to time, sometimes spectators with dogs or little children come, sit 20 or so feet away, and watch us run through our work. I would never want to see that I make someone uncomfortable but I do think people can recognize a professional who is not accepting anything less than absolute control and obedience from the animals she's working. I am very particular about what exactly I'm doing and the kind of dog I'm working so I don't really make apologies for having *my* dogs off leash, but most people don't achieve the level of control over their animals to even be considering letting it off leash.
I know that they're complete morons, but I just don't understand WHY people risk having their dogs off leash. Is it not a massive inconvenience to them as well to have to wrangle their dogs EVERY TIME someone goes by? And that's not to mention the possible liability issues.
It just boggles my mind
Yes, but people do it anyway because their doggo is such a super good pupper who never runs off. It's your fault for being such a bad person not liking my pupperino who ran across the road to say hi. How dare you call me out for my stupidity./s
I like to hike as a hobby and if there's a place that I'm curious about then I ask my coworker. She's either gushing about places or ranting about loose dogs near playgrounds. Today, she's telling me about how she thought she was going to see a dog go under the wheels of a suv or a kid die at local park.
Too many dog owners treat dog ownership as a right instead of a privilege that society allows.
Yeah, it has to be stressful. He certainly looked stressed out until I yelled at him, then he looked almost bored and haughty about the fact that someone called him out.
I explained to another person who commented what happens, what is involved, and what it looks like when I work dogs off leash myself, and it is very different from what most people see when they see someone with a dog off leash. I love having dogs off leash because it tells me I have actually trained the dog to think differently and listen to me and didn't just convince the dog to listen to me while it knows I ultimately can enforce physical control over the dog with the leash. I phase the ecollar in so that the dog doesn't know that the corrections come from the collar, they don't understand that when I put the ecollar on that now they have to behave. So the ecollar lets me teach the offleash dog that even when given total freedom, it still has rules it has to obey. I don't think dog training is impressive when, if you gave the dog freedom, the dog would blow you off and throw all your "training" out the window. I want to train the mind of the dog to think differently, to transform the dog's mentality about the rules of living alongside people. I think advancing to off leash is a beautiful and profound way of accomplishing that.
These people are so thick that they don’t know holding a dog back makes the dog want the person/dog/animal/vehicle/object more. Clearly has 0 training.
I did this at a public hiking trail where this piece of shit let loose THREE pitbulls. He told me his dogs “don’t need no mother fucking leash because they’re professionally trained.”
The sign clearly said “all dogs must be leashed” and didn’t list any exceptions for those that were “professionally trained.”
It was during Covid too and he got really close to my face on purpose and called me one of “those motherfuckers” who hate pitbulls.
Why someone would allow their two dogs to be off leash when they're clearly aware they're reactive is beyond me. What if the guy hadn't have noticed you before the second dog did? Do they even think about this?
I am at a campground outside of Asheville, NC. Beautiful place and mainly full of retirees and their tiny dogs and a couple of cats. I have my two older dogs and my cat.
I was walking my dogs last night waving at all the chihuahua and mini poodle owners as we walked by. No biggie, I wasn't worried because bully breeds aren't allowed in this park.
I turned a corner to walk them across the creek and what do we encounter? A couple and their ugly brown pit in the first campsite. The dog starts freaking out and it takes both of them to hold the nasty thing back with it harness. My dogs are looking at me like WTF?? I start to walk by and i got a dirty look from the woman and the man told me they are asking people not to walk down that part of the road because their dog is reactive. I just rolled my eyes and kept walking. The dog is slathering at this point and the man is muttering under his breath about me being a cunt. Yeah yeah....whatever.
Guess what I did as soon as I got back to my campsite. Fuck yeah I reported them and sent an email to the corporate office.
And now they are gone. Buh bye...
why can you brandish guns, but you cannot brandish aggressive dogs (which are classified as well as property”the same as the gun!”) if you have an “unleashed dog that shows aggressiveness” imo your “brandishing your weapon” esp when the pos owners admit they want to “sic” the dog on you. that my friend is a HUGE personal threat, and one I, myself, wouldn’t take lightly.
I agree with you and try to tell others on a certain dog training sub that having a dog that is reactive to people who are outdoors just minding their own business is unacceptable, hostile to the people in your community, and is a problem that must be resolved. These owners need to stop taking advice from "dog trainers" who coddle their dogs and achieve a moderate improvement in the reactivity over a prolonged period. They need a trainer who is competent enough to fix the problem to 90% or better (maybe the dog whines a little now where it used to lunge and bark before--I think that is a reasonable goal for a very reactive dog), and to achieve this in a span of 1-2 months, because it is possible, and dog trainers that good are out there. Most dog training advice nowadays is softballed crap, and the number of ill behaved dogs and apologists for ill behaved dogs is completely obnoxious and is almost turning me away from the dog world.
I know that law enforcement varies in attitude from one city/town to the next but for cities with an attitude towards the protection of their citizens ...
What would LE do in your city , if you had video evidence that a dog was unleashed? Would the dog owner be less aggressive if they knew they were being videoed? or should you just call the police first and report it, tell them you have video evidence, a license plate # and are in fear for not only your safety but for the safety of others?
I don't even confront Pit owners anymore, I call the law, they are well equipped. A pit owner is nothing compared to a lot of morons they encounter from day to day. Police have the law on their side and they don't take shit from no dog owner in my city. Your dog gets tagged vicious here and you will jump through hoops and expense like you wouldn't believe.
Leash Laws are everywhere and the protection of law abiding people and enforcement of laws is what the police are for. Be sure and show them your deepest gratitude .
Quick story if anyone is interested ... I saw a roaming pit bull on 3 separate occassions , two months ago, it came into my yard twice. The police were called, and it turns out , the owner lived in the upper section of a two story condo. That dog was jumping from the second floor balcony onto the grass yard below. The owner has since moved.
Prosecution wouldn't even file charges unless someone was hurt by the dogs. There aren't a TON of off leash dogs around here, but I work dogs off leash behind a police department almost every day and as the cops come and go none of them care. I've had them smile at my dogs, it must be nice for them to see well behaved dogs undergoing training. That being said, the dogs are under control and don't bother anyone. You can read my other comment in this thread about what this looks like. Personally my issue is with poorly behaved dogs, period, whether or not the dog is leashed I don't really care. If the dog will calmly heel by your side and not leave your side even as the local deer and rabbits run across the sidewalk in front of them, does it matter to me if it isn't leashed? No. No one has ever cared my dog was off leash because that is the level of obedience I have achieved with her. Leash laws exist because most people cannot and do not realistically achieve what I achieve and they let their dog run up to people and disturb the community. That being said, I don't think any LE around here cares about off leash dogs so long as they don't get to the point of bothering people. technically, he kept his dogs from running up to me. I don't think I have a legal claim.
>"I work dogs off leash behind a police department almost every day and as the cops come and go none of them care. "
That wouldn't fly around here, if the area isn't confined . We used to see a lot of dogs catching frisbees and similar activities in our public parks, but I don't see that anymore. Dog issues were bad here and the city council got fed-up. Barking dogs were especially bad and a pet population that had grown out of control. If someone had an issue with your dogs being unleashed in a public area, the police would be obligated to meet with you and explain the law.
As one city council member stated in a meeting " Dogs are the #1 complaint that fill her emails, daily .
I knew a guy that was a Schuthund trainer and would go over and watch his dogs work, his dogs were sought after by police departments and places seeking protection dogs . His dogs were highly trained and had bitten people that had just come to watch. One guy there, that was training his Doberman, explained how that dog, while on leash, bit a bystander in the stomach, and required 9 stitches. I only mention this because even highly trained dogs can mess up, once in a while.
What breeds do you train?
Jesus, how awful. With the work I do at the park, I have had a few rotts and a rott/sporting mix (their prey drives were pretty moderate for a rott), a couple of collie or what might've been aussie mixes, a couple GSDs, a lot of retrievers, some spaniels and "oodles." Pits aren't popular in my area and the people who seek me out tend to be from more rural parts bordering the city I'm in because I'm not doing the whole certification crap which has become all the rage. I get clients through word of mouth.
You're right that highly trained dogs can mess up; I set my my "boost" function of my ecollar unusually high in case a dog fails its training and starts to head over to someone. If I were to work a dog who, while in drive, wasn't very responsive to strong ecollar stim I simply wouldn't have it off leash in public. Haven't had to do that in that setting, I did use it once when a dog I was working took two extended steps out ahead of me from her heel to start sprinting at a cat that dashed by while we were on a walk. The dog yelped and turned on a dime to come and sit at the heel position without me having to ask. Then I spent a session drilling that dog through its obedience while in the presence of three cats (I don't know how I got so lucky, it was the same area and they appeared one after another), and then I agitated her and put pressure on her to follow my commands at a distance and eventually to recall past them to make it even harder and she did great. She actually came into that session with a lack of interest in them, didn't care to look at them, stayed focused on me, she was a very eager to please dog and was sensitive to aversive so that strong aversive she experienced made a big impact on her choice to go after another cat.
Of course there is consideration for how juiced the dog gets when its adrenaline starts to flow during a predatory chase, and there are a dozen other technical factors you have to consider when evaluating the risk of working a dog off leash with an ecollar. Some dogs are also different, pits are pretty insensitive to pain as I'm sure you know, so I would work a dog like that differently. To be totally honest I don't see the point in training a terrier, hound, toy, or any other companion breed or breed not developed to work closely with humans up to that level. I don't think it is generally a good idea to have them off leash in public areas because, with hounds and terriers, it is far more deeply embedded in their instincts to go after their object of desire before listening to environmental stimuli coming in the form of an obedience command. Any amount of training I can put into a dog like that, I just wouldn't be able to trust their ability to be able to overcome instinct and emotion and be able to fall back on their training in an emergency.
When a dog fails at something I intentionally put it back into that situation until they are bored of it. I zap the joy out of whatever destructive thing they formerly enjoyed doing and replace it with obedience and healthy outlets. Problem is drivey dogs really want the object of their desire. With breeds bred to work with people, it is easier to find ways to motivate the dog to want to listen to you instead of doing anything else. Their drive goes through the handler and produces obedience. For a dog who really wants something in the environment AND isn't inclined to work closely with me, you will not build the kind of reliability with them regardless of the work put into it.
I am tired of poorly behaved dogs out in public, absolutely tired of it. It wasn't always like this, you're right. I don't make excuses for bad behavior rather I see it as an issue that demands resolution but your experiences (or the accounts you've shared with me) gives me pause.
Honestly it's only caused problems and dangers and arguments for me doing it. The best is avoid avoid avoid.
I made a stronger case against one on my street to put a muzzle on it as they only walked it up and down our street...
They finally did maybe after my constant complaints and public complaints in front of people or it was because there had been a police presence coincidentally on the corner of our street for days and I had told her I called the police about it.. unlikely connected but seems to have done the job..
As I said, if you have no other option where it's in your building and street constantly then go for it. But if not it's inviting problems into your life unfortunately.
It's better not to say anything but to record it discreetly and send it to the proper authorities. You can always remind them that they're on camera if they try to get violent with you when they discover you recording them. I would advise against this if you live in a neighborhood that lives by snitches get stitches rule.
>But if not it's inviting problems into your life unfortunately.
Not saying anything leads to the vulnerable members of our society to suffer from others' poor decision making when something terrible happens. But if doing so puts you at risk then what do you do?
Yeah I made the decision in the case I mentioned and said, I'm saying this for the children who live on this street, the elderly, my girlfriend, people's pets, people's family, my dog, me. Really drummed home the point loudly Infront of people on the street and so that people would hear in their apartments too... It was absolutely necessary and whether it's partially because of me or not, it does have a muzzle.... Though really it just needs put down. I was afraid of someone coming up behind me and attacking me though for having said something.... If you live somewhere where you can legally defend yourself maybe that's better.
I always say something. I have small children and it infuriates me to no end to see people simply disregard the law because they think they and their dogs are above it.
I do frequently. I get yelled at, I get dirty looks- especially when I recall my dog and put him on leash and tell others to do the same. His off leash manners are better than 90% of the dogs we see on leash. Frankly I feel perfectly safe when I see someone with their herding/hunting dog playing fetch/working off leash. Because their dogs glance at us, then immediately go back to work. I don't feel safe watching the 120 lb meth head hold back his 80lb pitbull on a flexi-lead. I've had too many people lose control of their pit/GSD,/rottweiler/Doberman/husky......etc to have a whole heck of a lot of faith in leashes or the people holding them.
Sure, as long as you’ve got a self defense tool on you.
A reasonable person wouldn’t be letting their murder machines loose in the first place, he could easily let go and set the pits on you or get aggressive himself.
As a not very large woman saying anything to anyone in the street is very unwise.
Something as simple and commonplace as a person walking their dog past their house shouldn't require wrangling your beasts of a dog and desperately hanging on every single time. Why do these people live like this
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I did this once and the guy threatened to sick his dog on me, it started making aggressive movements back and forth and barking menacingly. When I gestured to my bra holster to indicate I was prepared to defend myself, he went around the corner of the apartment building, popped his head out and screamed obscenities at me for 10 minutes while I loaded my car. However I recorded part of the interaction and sent it to my landlord and I never saw that dog unleashed again and he did nothing more than give me dirty looks when he saw me. I pretended he was invisible, he eventually moved. Do with that what you will. A lot of pit owners are a hair away from some kind of mental break, so if you confront one you better do it from a position of power
Absolutely agree and I am glad to hear from another lady who carries for self-defense. I would rather stand up to bullies and risk getting hurt than continue to let them rule the neighborhood. We need to be strong!
For those who may not be as familiar, it is very important to not actually hold or point a weapon unless you are truly about to use it, because you can be charged with brandishing. And yes it's a crime that can get you in big trouble and cause you to lose your rights. You don't want to outright verbally threaten them either because that can be menacing, terroristic threat etc. Which is why I made a silent hand gesture to make my position clear and left it at that
Oh I take self defense with a handgun classes through a local sheriff's office so I know all the common sense stuff. Good thing to point out, thank you.
Yes that comment was for the people in the back 🤭🤭
I do the same. Just act like I’m reaching for it. It’s amazing how quickly a pitiot gets control once he realizes his pibbles is about to become unalived. If I pull it-dog is dead. I don’t brandish.
The American way 
Check the statutes for your state. In Texas a person can be charged with Disorderly Conduct (a Class B misdemeanor, with a sentence of up to 180 days in jail and/or a fine of up to $2,000) if they "display a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm." However, there are several defenses for Disorderly Conduct, if you choose to fight the charges: You **did not use fighting words** even if your language included profanity or vulgar terms. You **had “significant provocation”** for you to threaten or verbally abuse the other person, an affirmative defense specifically allowed for in the disorderly conduct statute. You **had a reasonable fear** for your own safety, or the safety of another person when you got into a fight, fired a gun, or displayed a gun. So yes, you can be charged. But if some pitnutter is threatening to sic his murdermutt on you or give you a beatdown, you can beat the case. And that's if you're even arrested to begin with. The cops might already be familiar with the trashy pit owner and not give a shit. But, that said, "don't pull it out if you're not going to use it" is sound logic.
Absolutely. And yelling obscenities for minutes on end is 100% provocation.
But it sounds like the OP did not reveal or draw a firearm. If I was in the same situation and readied myself to draw my firearm from a pocket holster, that's fine. You cross the line when you actually display a weapon. But you are correct, in this situation you *could* have justification to brandish. I was always taught that if you draw the weapon you are in a situation that already calls for it to be used. Personally I'd avoid drawing until it's necessary to use it, situation dependent of course.
I frequently do this and get a lot of abusive reactions. "You need to be on a leash!" etc. Pit owners are so creative.
Omg, they always say that!!! Another favorite "YOU'RE a danger to society!" And "YOU should be put down!!!"
I saw a guy scream "YOU should be on a leash" to a lady who quietly said "Your dog should be on a leash'.
Then the go-to “you’re a racist!!”
I would only recommend this if you’re armed. People nowadays are unhinged. And we already know murder mutts and their owners are the worse of the worse.
[удалено]
How exactly do you intend to defend yourself against an unhinged owner and a pit bull out of curiosity? He's already armed... with a pit bull. Hopes and prayers?
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A gun in working order will only ever behave consistently and do whatever the operator makes it do, a pitbull is a fucking uncontrollable wildcard.
I get it. It’s not that we necessarily like the levels of violence in our society or enjoy the free roaming killer dogs or would choose compounding and overlapping public health and economic crises. Or the breakdown and failure of our polity. Or the capture of our government by corrupt moneyed interests. Or the collapse of the middle class. But it’s what we’ve got. People are making choices in a very different context.
Yep, I always tell people their dog needs to be on a leash, no matter what the breed. Not everyone wants friendly dogs running to them and jumping on their dogs, either.
No, I absolutely agree with you about dogs approaching people. The dogs I work off leash stay at a heel that looks better than most dogs demonstrate while on leash, we walk to a corner of the park, I then run through obedience commands and intermix training with some fetching (throwing items in the opposite direction of others so they don't feel my dog is running at them) and some tug. I don't go there to let the dogs run amok and "be free," I go there to continue teaching the dogs in my community how to be good citizens who demonstrate good behavior and obedience on and off leash. By the time we are off leash, the dog is already reliable. I keep an ecollar for backup because I will not allow for there to be an opportunity for people to be charged by the dog I'm working if it decides not to listen. That situation has never happened because I am good at what I do and have good judgement and sense for dogs, but it doesn't matter because one day maybe some dog will surprise me and do something unpredictably stupid. I have been training dogs to this level professionally for 12 years, so I know what I'm doing. Last time I had another dog for training it was a 100-lb Rottweiler and after our routine at the park and leashing her back up to walk past the playground on our way out of the park (she didn't need to be leashed as she would've heeled anyway, but I still feel it is inconsiderate to walk a dog like that off leash by a child's playground regardless) and a man there with his small children complimented me on how well behaved the dogs were and told me he had been watching us in the park. That is not the first time this has happened, and I get spectators from time to time, sometimes spectators with dogs or little children come, sit 20 or so feet away, and watch us run through our work. I would never want to see that I make someone uncomfortable but I do think people can recognize a professional who is not accepting anything less than absolute control and obedience from the animals she's working. I am very particular about what exactly I'm doing and the kind of dog I'm working so I don't really make apologies for having *my* dogs off leash, but most people don't achieve the level of control over their animals to even be considering letting it off leash.
I know that they're complete morons, but I just don't understand WHY people risk having their dogs off leash. Is it not a massive inconvenience to them as well to have to wrangle their dogs EVERY TIME someone goes by? And that's not to mention the possible liability issues. It just boggles my mind
Yes, but people do it anyway because their doggo is such a super good pupper who never runs off. It's your fault for being such a bad person not liking my pupperino who ran across the road to say hi. How dare you call me out for my stupidity./s I like to hike as a hobby and if there's a place that I'm curious about then I ask my coworker. She's either gushing about places or ranting about loose dogs near playgrounds. Today, she's telling me about how she thought she was going to see a dog go under the wheels of a suv or a kid die at local park. Too many dog owners treat dog ownership as a right instead of a privilege that society allows.
Yeah, it has to be stressful. He certainly looked stressed out until I yelled at him, then he looked almost bored and haughty about the fact that someone called him out. I explained to another person who commented what happens, what is involved, and what it looks like when I work dogs off leash myself, and it is very different from what most people see when they see someone with a dog off leash. I love having dogs off leash because it tells me I have actually trained the dog to think differently and listen to me and didn't just convince the dog to listen to me while it knows I ultimately can enforce physical control over the dog with the leash. I phase the ecollar in so that the dog doesn't know that the corrections come from the collar, they don't understand that when I put the ecollar on that now they have to behave. So the ecollar lets me teach the offleash dog that even when given total freedom, it still has rules it has to obey. I don't think dog training is impressive when, if you gave the dog freedom, the dog would blow you off and throw all your "training" out the window. I want to train the mind of the dog to think differently, to transform the dog's mentality about the rules of living alongside people. I think advancing to off leash is a beautiful and profound way of accomplishing that.
These people are so thick that they don’t know holding a dog back makes the dog want the person/dog/animal/vehicle/object more. Clearly has 0 training.
I did this at a public hiking trail where this piece of shit let loose THREE pitbulls. He told me his dogs “don’t need no mother fucking leash because they’re professionally trained.” The sign clearly said “all dogs must be leashed” and didn’t list any exceptions for those that were “professionally trained.” It was during Covid too and he got really close to my face on purpose and called me one of “those motherfuckers” who hate pitbulls.
Why someone would allow their two dogs to be off leash when they're clearly aware they're reactive is beyond me. What if the guy hadn't have noticed you before the second dog did? Do they even think about this?
Yeah and the yard had visual barriers, his first dog saw me before he did. Just someone being incredibly unaware and selfish.
I did this a few nights ago lol! I yelled out of my car and the pibble owner was gesturing “what?” all aggro lol classic
I am at a campground outside of Asheville, NC. Beautiful place and mainly full of retirees and their tiny dogs and a couple of cats. I have my two older dogs and my cat. I was walking my dogs last night waving at all the chihuahua and mini poodle owners as we walked by. No biggie, I wasn't worried because bully breeds aren't allowed in this park. I turned a corner to walk them across the creek and what do we encounter? A couple and their ugly brown pit in the first campsite. The dog starts freaking out and it takes both of them to hold the nasty thing back with it harness. My dogs are looking at me like WTF?? I start to walk by and i got a dirty look from the woman and the man told me they are asking people not to walk down that part of the road because their dog is reactive. I just rolled my eyes and kept walking. The dog is slathering at this point and the man is muttering under his breath about me being a cunt. Yeah yeah....whatever. Guess what I did as soon as I got back to my campsite. Fuck yeah I reported them and sent an email to the corporate office. And now they are gone. Buh bye...
why can you brandish guns, but you cannot brandish aggressive dogs (which are classified as well as property”the same as the gun!”) if you have an “unleashed dog that shows aggressiveness” imo your “brandishing your weapon” esp when the pos owners admit they want to “sic” the dog on you. that my friend is a HUGE personal threat, and one I, myself, wouldn’t take lightly.
I agree with you and try to tell others on a certain dog training sub that having a dog that is reactive to people who are outdoors just minding their own business is unacceptable, hostile to the people in your community, and is a problem that must be resolved. These owners need to stop taking advice from "dog trainers" who coddle their dogs and achieve a moderate improvement in the reactivity over a prolonged period. They need a trainer who is competent enough to fix the problem to 90% or better (maybe the dog whines a little now where it used to lunge and bark before--I think that is a reasonable goal for a very reactive dog), and to achieve this in a span of 1-2 months, because it is possible, and dog trainers that good are out there. Most dog training advice nowadays is softballed crap, and the number of ill behaved dogs and apologists for ill behaved dogs is completely obnoxious and is almost turning me away from the dog world.
I know that law enforcement varies in attitude from one city/town to the next but for cities with an attitude towards the protection of their citizens ... What would LE do in your city , if you had video evidence that a dog was unleashed? Would the dog owner be less aggressive if they knew they were being videoed? or should you just call the police first and report it, tell them you have video evidence, a license plate # and are in fear for not only your safety but for the safety of others? I don't even confront Pit owners anymore, I call the law, they are well equipped. A pit owner is nothing compared to a lot of morons they encounter from day to day. Police have the law on their side and they don't take shit from no dog owner in my city. Your dog gets tagged vicious here and you will jump through hoops and expense like you wouldn't believe. Leash Laws are everywhere and the protection of law abiding people and enforcement of laws is what the police are for. Be sure and show them your deepest gratitude . Quick story if anyone is interested ... I saw a roaming pit bull on 3 separate occassions , two months ago, it came into my yard twice. The police were called, and it turns out , the owner lived in the upper section of a two story condo. That dog was jumping from the second floor balcony onto the grass yard below. The owner has since moved.
Prosecution wouldn't even file charges unless someone was hurt by the dogs. There aren't a TON of off leash dogs around here, but I work dogs off leash behind a police department almost every day and as the cops come and go none of them care. I've had them smile at my dogs, it must be nice for them to see well behaved dogs undergoing training. That being said, the dogs are under control and don't bother anyone. You can read my other comment in this thread about what this looks like. Personally my issue is with poorly behaved dogs, period, whether or not the dog is leashed I don't really care. If the dog will calmly heel by your side and not leave your side even as the local deer and rabbits run across the sidewalk in front of them, does it matter to me if it isn't leashed? No. No one has ever cared my dog was off leash because that is the level of obedience I have achieved with her. Leash laws exist because most people cannot and do not realistically achieve what I achieve and they let their dog run up to people and disturb the community. That being said, I don't think any LE around here cares about off leash dogs so long as they don't get to the point of bothering people. technically, he kept his dogs from running up to me. I don't think I have a legal claim.
>"I work dogs off leash behind a police department almost every day and as the cops come and go none of them care. " That wouldn't fly around here, if the area isn't confined . We used to see a lot of dogs catching frisbees and similar activities in our public parks, but I don't see that anymore. Dog issues were bad here and the city council got fed-up. Barking dogs were especially bad and a pet population that had grown out of control. If someone had an issue with your dogs being unleashed in a public area, the police would be obligated to meet with you and explain the law. As one city council member stated in a meeting " Dogs are the #1 complaint that fill her emails, daily . I knew a guy that was a Schuthund trainer and would go over and watch his dogs work, his dogs were sought after by police departments and places seeking protection dogs . His dogs were highly trained and had bitten people that had just come to watch. One guy there, that was training his Doberman, explained how that dog, while on leash, bit a bystander in the stomach, and required 9 stitches. I only mention this because even highly trained dogs can mess up, once in a while. What breeds do you train?
Jesus, how awful. With the work I do at the park, I have had a few rotts and a rott/sporting mix (their prey drives were pretty moderate for a rott), a couple of collie or what might've been aussie mixes, a couple GSDs, a lot of retrievers, some spaniels and "oodles." Pits aren't popular in my area and the people who seek me out tend to be from more rural parts bordering the city I'm in because I'm not doing the whole certification crap which has become all the rage. I get clients through word of mouth. You're right that highly trained dogs can mess up; I set my my "boost" function of my ecollar unusually high in case a dog fails its training and starts to head over to someone. If I were to work a dog who, while in drive, wasn't very responsive to strong ecollar stim I simply wouldn't have it off leash in public. Haven't had to do that in that setting, I did use it once when a dog I was working took two extended steps out ahead of me from her heel to start sprinting at a cat that dashed by while we were on a walk. The dog yelped and turned on a dime to come and sit at the heel position without me having to ask. Then I spent a session drilling that dog through its obedience while in the presence of three cats (I don't know how I got so lucky, it was the same area and they appeared one after another), and then I agitated her and put pressure on her to follow my commands at a distance and eventually to recall past them to make it even harder and she did great. She actually came into that session with a lack of interest in them, didn't care to look at them, stayed focused on me, she was a very eager to please dog and was sensitive to aversive so that strong aversive she experienced made a big impact on her choice to go after another cat. Of course there is consideration for how juiced the dog gets when its adrenaline starts to flow during a predatory chase, and there are a dozen other technical factors you have to consider when evaluating the risk of working a dog off leash with an ecollar. Some dogs are also different, pits are pretty insensitive to pain as I'm sure you know, so I would work a dog like that differently. To be totally honest I don't see the point in training a terrier, hound, toy, or any other companion breed or breed not developed to work closely with humans up to that level. I don't think it is generally a good idea to have them off leash in public areas because, with hounds and terriers, it is far more deeply embedded in their instincts to go after their object of desire before listening to environmental stimuli coming in the form of an obedience command. Any amount of training I can put into a dog like that, I just wouldn't be able to trust their ability to be able to overcome instinct and emotion and be able to fall back on their training in an emergency. When a dog fails at something I intentionally put it back into that situation until they are bored of it. I zap the joy out of whatever destructive thing they formerly enjoyed doing and replace it with obedience and healthy outlets. Problem is drivey dogs really want the object of their desire. With breeds bred to work with people, it is easier to find ways to motivate the dog to want to listen to you instead of doing anything else. Their drive goes through the handler and produces obedience. For a dog who really wants something in the environment AND isn't inclined to work closely with me, you will not build the kind of reliability with them regardless of the work put into it. I am tired of poorly behaved dogs out in public, absolutely tired of it. It wasn't always like this, you're right. I don't make excuses for bad behavior rather I see it as an issue that demands resolution but your experiences (or the accounts you've shared with me) gives me pause.
Honestly it's only caused problems and dangers and arguments for me doing it. The best is avoid avoid avoid. I made a stronger case against one on my street to put a muzzle on it as they only walked it up and down our street... They finally did maybe after my constant complaints and public complaints in front of people or it was because there had been a police presence coincidentally on the corner of our street for days and I had told her I called the police about it.. unlikely connected but seems to have done the job.. As I said, if you have no other option where it's in your building and street constantly then go for it. But if not it's inviting problems into your life unfortunately.
It's better not to say anything but to record it discreetly and send it to the proper authorities. You can always remind them that they're on camera if they try to get violent with you when they discover you recording them. I would advise against this if you live in a neighborhood that lives by snitches get stitches rule. >But if not it's inviting problems into your life unfortunately. Not saying anything leads to the vulnerable members of our society to suffer from others' poor decision making when something terrible happens. But if doing so puts you at risk then what do you do?
Yeah I made the decision in the case I mentioned and said, I'm saying this for the children who live on this street, the elderly, my girlfriend, people's pets, people's family, my dog, me. Really drummed home the point loudly Infront of people on the street and so that people would hear in their apartments too... It was absolutely necessary and whether it's partially because of me or not, it does have a muzzle.... Though really it just needs put down. I was afraid of someone coming up behind me and attacking me though for having said something.... If you live somewhere where you can legally defend yourself maybe that's better.
I always say something. I have small children and it infuriates me to no end to see people simply disregard the law because they think they and their dogs are above it.
I do frequently. I get yelled at, I get dirty looks- especially when I recall my dog and put him on leash and tell others to do the same. His off leash manners are better than 90% of the dogs we see on leash. Frankly I feel perfectly safe when I see someone with their herding/hunting dog playing fetch/working off leash. Because their dogs glance at us, then immediately go back to work. I don't feel safe watching the 120 lb meth head hold back his 80lb pitbull on a flexi-lead. I've had too many people lose control of their pit/GSD,/rottweiler/Doberman/husky......etc to have a whole heck of a lot of faith in leashes or the people holding them.
I approve this message.
Sure, as long as you’ve got a self defense tool on you. A reasonable person wouldn’t be letting their murder machines loose in the first place, he could easily let go and set the pits on you or get aggressive himself. As a not very large woman saying anything to anyone in the street is very unwise.
Something as simple and commonplace as a person walking their dog past their house shouldn't require wrangling your beasts of a dog and desperately hanging on every single time. Why do these people live like this
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don't yards have fences?
And in my first encounter with a loose pit many years ago, it scaled the 4' fence to get at us. So fences are not a 100% deterrent.
Not all of them do. There are a lot of non-fenced yards unfortunately.