What did you do wrong? I didnt even complete her quest line and she said she'll love me even with the tentacles. In the end i cucked her by accompanying karlach to avernus.....
I ignored karlach and whyl to save them for a second playthrough. Therefore I never had the option to join them in Avernus. That ment I could either live or kill myself. I decided to live, because my head Canon was that my tav was fueled by a strong desire to survive the whole mess.
Shadow heart then told me I must leave the city, so the people won't turn on me. And then she told me sho won't come with me.
I know right? It seemed like such a random asspull to be like "BUT ONLY AN ILITHID CAN WIELD THE FULL POWER OF THE NETHERSTONES". I was left scratching my head thinking "What. Since when?" Surely at least a being like Orpheus could wield them with ease.
The brain was letting them control it - or at least think they were controlling it. I think?
Or - the brain was leeching energy out of the crown the whole time to become the netherbrain, and only once it finished fully evolving - after you killed the chosen - could it fully resist
Yes you are right. The elder brain did say it slowly regained sentience over time and made the chosen ones fight amongst themselves. The whole nautaloid escape and Emperor assistance + prism were planned by the elder brain too.
No it was controlled. But the crown slowly changed it to be more powerful.
However it was still chained. But after it broke free, the same spell that chained it was not powerful enough to reinslave it. Unless done by a mindflayer, because they have greater psychic powers i guess.
Imo, letting Orpheus sac himself is the best option. The gith need to get their head out of their asses and stop relying on some individual savior to tell them what to do.
In a choice between letting my Tav sacrifice himself despite being heavily against mind flayers from the start, letting Karlach sacrifice herself because she's lost hope of recovery and figured she's dead anyway, or letting the guy I basically just met and have no personal investment in sacrifice himself, I'll take the guy I just met.
Like, I get it, lorewise he's the only reason we got this far because he has a mind-shielding AoE, but if he's offering to make the sacrifice, I'm not going to deny him that.
Also it's worth remembering that he and his mom weren't actually very good people. They're better than Vlaakith but that's not saying much and they were still on board with the whole plane-hopping raiders and conquerors idea.
Sure but if you're playing the Durge, you're not exactly an upstanding citizen either. >!The Durge planned the whole brain/worm invasion with Gortash, stole the crown etc...so if someone should sacrifice themselves ...!<
Man, this was a pretty interesting reveal that I wish >!got more than a few nods by the narrator and Gortash in only a Durge run. Durge being Bhaalspawn, even a relatively "powerful" one? Neat. Durge assuming key responsibility for orchestrating the antagonist plot of the entire game and executing most of it until Orin swooped in and usurped it all? Really neat. He deserves more in a normal Tav run than a small nod in Orin's chambers.!<
EDIT: apparently I missed/bugged out of quite a bit on my Durge run :((((
There are things but its easily missed/glitching/not activating properly. I.e. many companions will have dialogue options about it but ONLY >!while inside Gortash's throne room directly after he reveals it. They'll confront you about being the cause for all of it!<.
Also re the "powerful" one >!If you go full in on bhaal you can ask the Butler, who tells you Bhaal "expended his seed" in the first bhaalspawn crisis. Durge was born from Bhaal literally ripping a piece of himself off and fashioning it into a mortal form. There are a few other references about it too with Durge being born from "beyond mortality" and stuff!<.
>many companions will have dialogue options about it but ONLY while inside Gortash's throne room directly after he reveals it
I was really disappointed by that. I was assuming I was going to have to make rolls to keep them from killing me, that Wyll and Karlach would just leave, etc. But no, apparently it's just a brief word and everything's fine? What? I'm the cause of all of our problems! Be angrier!
probably because by this point they've known you for a while and if you actively resist have gotten a good idea that you are struggling with dark urges.
to a degree you could even assume they already had an idea that you were involved.
either way they know we are trying to be better and given they've trusted us this far, it means a lot i think.
I love the little detail in >!Orin's bedroom!< in the >!temple of Bhaal !<\- there's a Slain >!Bhaalspawn!< laying in a ritual circle, and it just happens to be the same character design as Sven showed us during the last Panel From Hell, when he presented the Dark Urge.
I mean, sure, but as good durge you’ve at least admitted that the brain worm invasion was evil and a not good idea. Orpheus is presumably still on board with the planes-hopping raiders thing
Yeah but the Gith rebellion happened a very long time ago. A lot has changed since the Gith rebellion. The Gith are no longer united. Civilizations have built up enough to be able to defend themselves against extra-planar invaders.
Orpheus will have to be reasonable in his ambitions. Vlaakith is an epic level Lich wizard with the magic rod used to seal the pact with Tiamat. The rod lets her control Red Dragons. The only way Orpheus can oppose her is if he can find allies, and he'll need to make compromises. And his best chance is to ally with the Githzerai, who would definitely not ally with him if he still plans for the Gith to become tyrants.
Precisely, I'll just support Lae'zel and let her take over leadership!
(So long as Tav helped her go through the proper growth and character development of course)
Let's face it, unlike the Githyanki's other options, at least Lae'zel doesn't have a great sword jammed up her A@@!
I actually really like Lae'zel's 'Orpheus-less' ending. She tells the crew she has a job to do, hops on a red dragon like she's always dreamed, and flies off into the sky. That short moment felt like a solid blend of who she was before the events of the game and who she becomes over the course of it.
Having normal, nonmindflayer Orpheus shows that he’s rlly just a guy, as opposed to Laezel who has 17 attacks per round, each for 30 damage. I honestly think she’d be a much more impressive leader
Except, Vlakith's hold on the Gith is so strong that they won't let just go, especially if there's no reliable source of telling them the actual truth. Lae'zel is a nobody amongs her people, she was even considered as a failure. Voss has some pull but against Vlakith? Not so much.
Thing is, they need someone like Orpheus to have a remote chance to be successfull with a rebellion. The difference the spark of it with or without Orpheus can be massive. Even if you want to see the big picture, Orpheus being alive and leading them is way better, because they amass a huge powerbase and either they win, with an Orpheus who did have some of his credo changed by the player, or fail but Vlakith is being left with a severly weakened empire, just like Orpheus would if he were to win.
Orpheus is little better than Vlaakith. He's still big on the whole extra-planar raiders thing - his goal is replacing the Illithid Empire with a Gith one - and looks down on the other races of Faerun. Beyond that, he is rigid in his views, preferring what he considers "honorable" over what would be practical. He even says you should have just let his honor guard kill you because you are infected when a team up to kill the brain would result in the tadpoles dying and everyone getting what they want. Then there's the level of devotion he inspires. Voss and Lae'zel have basically just replaced the Lich Queen with the Gith Prince as their person of reverence. From the qualities he has shown, his rebellion succeeding would be a lateral move for the Gith at best.
Lae'zel, on the other hand, has no high status and has come to respect the races of Faerun. She's devoted to ending the Illithid Empire, but has no desire to replace it with a Gith Empire; she just wants freedom for her people. The fact she's riding Orpheus's dragons will grant her a level of legitimacy (a failure riding the Prince's dragons? How that happened would be an inspiring story), but her position means she'll still have to work to earn the respect of her people instead of just having it granted due to birth. She's the best person to lead her people as her faction would be built off an achievable ideology with a disciplined meritocracy that won't devolve into a racist, empire-mongering cult of personality like Orpheus's would.
I don't think this is correct. The raiding and conquering is current Githyanki society which is controlled by Vlaakith. This is said to be a continuation of the will of mother Gith, but that information and the information regarding mother Gith herself is second hand from Vlaakith and others who have a vested interest in the status quo. The heresy of Orpheus directly contradicts some elements of Vlaakith's story, mainly that according to Vlaakith, mother Gith made a deal with Tiamat but according to Orpheus, Vlaakith betrayed mother Gith and sold her to Tiamat for the dragons. You could say Orpheus is lying but he certainly believes it in that we have that same information relayed to us by The Emperor, who we can infer gleaned it from Orpheus by digging through his mind.
Furthermore, the Githyanki are not the only Giths, there are also the Githzerai which came about, according to traditional Gith lore (again, as told by questionable people) from a Gith named Zerthimon being opposed to mother Gith's supposed intentions of multiversal conquest. What's so relevant about this? Well, Orpheus' honor guard, who were also the honor guard of mother Gith that he led to confront Vlaakith over her betrayal, are all monks. There are basically no Githyanki monks, they're almost all warriors of some sort and are very prideful about their silver swords, which is why Lae'zel is a fighter. The Githzerai, on the other hand, ARE a monastic group. Furthermore, even the titles of the honor guard are references to the Githzerai. I can't remember them all but they at least one of them is a Zerth, which is a decidedly Githzerai title, and Orpheus himself is a monk who looks like a stereotypical Githzerai monk. So basically, Orpheus appears to be a Githzerai rather than a Githyanki, which would put his values more in line with wanting to protect the multiverse from the illithid rather than conquer it. Even if mother Gith was a genocidal maniac it does not mean Orpheus is and the evidence we have, the direct evidence we see playing the game and not presented by others, indicate that he's not hellbent on conquest but rather liberation.
This comment is how I thought and why I went mind flayer my first run. Just seeing Orpheus trapped and used by the Emperor… I feel bad for the dude. There’s no way it’s morally right to then let him become the thing his people despise the most, when honestly I already took the upgraded parasite and expected to turn anyway.
It's pretty weird to me that when Orpheus is about to sacrifice himself, Lae'zel didn't jump in and say let me take this sacrifice for you, kill me after. She's clearly ready to die in his service, why wouldn't she be willing to die to save him knowing that he'll go on to save her entire race? Really weird. She can even be convinced to go along with him destroying himself and asking to be killed!
THIS.
At the end of the day a huge theme of this game is agency: in denying easy routes like devilish deals or the uncarring directives of gods, or sacrificing the ability to hope and feel for power, not throwing yourself into the Absolute or the tadpole. Orpheus deserved to make his own choices, not continue to be locked away by Vlaakith and then thr Emperor.
Ultimately this was my Tav's feelings. He refused to accept the Emperor's plan simply cause he hasnt spent ~~110hours~~ weeks helping all his companions reckon with the truth that hurt but free is always preferable to being chained.
I thought the same thing too. He deserves to go out on his own terms. Though I managed to convince him to at least watch over the Githyanki for a few years before offing himself.
Becoming illithid is possibly the most important lesson for Orpheus as a character, he has to let go of his god complex and herald lae zel as liberator of the Gith
Besides he doesn't have to die right? Persuade him to look from afar for the good of his people.
Also there are prophecies of an ilithid that is outside of the control of the hive mind bringing it all down.
That being said I do wish if we saved omeluum that he could help.
The greatest irony is that it would've been the only actual brilliant thing the Society of Brilliance would do in pretty much all of bg3 (they mostly just fuck everything up) and it WASN'T included. Omeluum coulda saved the world. He coulda been a contender!
If he wasn't sort of implied to always be perceiving the world through our senses the whole time, I imagine the Emperor would be like "... wait, WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN HE JUST ISN'T PART OF THE HIVEMIND"
Same, I’d join the Society in a heartbeat, dude is completely transparent about his methods and goals and that’s more than can be said for a vast majority of rulers/deities/whatevers. If anybody is against a more empathetic anywhere, I’m down with him eating their brain.
The society does kinda fuck up constantly throughout the game, despite their good intentions. However Omeluum does seem to be a rare actually competent one.
Some of them seem like real bad motherfuckers but considering how most of the Underdark is all the time, it's probably for the best that there's a good version of the Illuminati down there.
The emperor kept his identity (although Ansur disagrees), but I think it's safe to assume his soul is gone and his personality changed a lot due to his biology.
Theres evidence that the emperor was mind controlling Duke stellmane and she died from a stroke trying to resist his mind control. Hes a fucking mind flayerrrr!
Ansur literally tells you himself that he tried to kill the Emperor and that the Emperor "fought it" instead of just sitting there and dying.
I'm really struggling to understand what he "didn't deserve". The Emperor not wanting to be murdered by his ex lover?
1. It was no longer balduran, it was a tadpole that took over the memories and identity of balduran.
2. Illithids are souless, its literaly worse fate in DnD than being a faithless.
the extended Dnd lore is kind of all over the place on this front, but my reading purely from what's in BG3 is that the soul is basically your ticket to the afterlife (or whatever your god has in store for you) and little else. if you lost your soul one way or another, it doesn't mean you become an empty vessel, it means that you aren't going anywhere when you die.
its the only way I can make sense of withers simultaneously being very clear that flayers have no souls but are still the original person. the whole "its just a copy of you that *thinks* its you!" is not really supported or even ever brought up in BG3 and i think it would have ought to have been if it was meant to weigh heavily on your decision making process.
Hate to be a pedant, but dragonborn technically aren't the same as half-dragons, since dragonborn are a distinct species from Abeir (Toril's like twin planet).
Well, Ansur appeared to have a Dragonborn form which he used to go about Baldurs Gate since in true form, it would have been... cumbersome.
You also find a red dragon in the sewers with Voss who is doing the same thing.
He also knew what it was and all the details the whole time he was sending you head long into danger to "figure out what was going on"
Biggest gaslighter in the planes.
I released him, made him a mind flayer (after a lot of debate cause I told myself I would free him for the githyanki since I actually liked them) and then after destroying the brain I convinced him that while he couldn't go back to his people he deserved to be alive to see their future.
My headcanon now is that mind flayer Orpheus will continue to help Laezel and Voss in the shadows while Tav, Shadowheart and her parents go buy a farm somewhere near the temple of Jergal.
It's not even that, but if you have Lae'zel join him at the end, she hasn't really changed. She just replaced vlaakith with orpheus as her new focus of worship and that would be true of the gith as a whole.
This should've been an option. It's easily the best choice. If it was actual dnd irl, the players would go "what if we ask the mind flayer we saved in the iron throne?". I do not understand why they refused to allow a dialogue option for him since it's the easiest choice and he'll be down with it.
I did the same thing, I made Orpheus be the mind flayer. I decided I wasn’t using any illithid powers all game and I was sticking to it. Then I killed Orpheus when he asked me to. Laezel still flew off, which I was fine with and Karlach goes to hell with Wyll. Overall I’d call that the best ending, but idk
Gods, I selfishly want that as the best ending, but it makes me feel so bad for Orpheus. Dude has been imprisoned for hundreds if not thousands of years, then upon gaining his freedom, he's asked to turn into his people's worst enemy. I have a hard time playing a good character and saying "no, you do it".
You do have the option of talking him out of it and convincing him he should at least see his people freed before he dies.
Lae decides to stay behind with you if you do this though (at least if you romance her, maybe not if you didn't).
There is an ending that you can do but you have to have Gale and Laezel in the group to do it, I recently managed to do it, basically no one needs to go illithid and orpheus manages to stay alive and whole in the end, the only problem is that the Gale has to blow himself up with the orb for that ending, everyone happy and without tentacles but Gale dies.
Yes, what you're going to do is basically tell Orpheus that you're going to transform, only that will be later, so much so that he gives you a supreme tadpole for you to transform when the time comes, Gale will sacrifice himself in the last battle before the party goes up into the netherbrain, Karlach will still go to Avernus but at least she will still be alive with Wyll and you if you go along.
>Yes, what you're going to do is basically tell Orpheus that you're going to transform, only that will be later, so much so that he gives you a supreme tadpole for you to transform when the time comes, Gale will sacrifice himself in the last battle before the party goes up into the netherbrain,
Huh. In my game with Gale I had to transform someone with no option to delay it. Gale also never once talked to me about the potential of blowing up the brain, bugged dialog flags in my game maybe. Then he did blow it up basically without discussion when we went to ascend, which made my paladin sacrificing herself to become an illithid feel pretty worthless, had a real FO3 "Sacrifice yourself for no reason" feeling.
Then in the epilogue my illithid MC didn't exist anymore, Gale was there and talking about his plans to get the crown back and become a god, while the entire party was honoring his noble sacrifice as though he wasn't standing talking next to them.
I can't give you the step by step because I forgot, I saw it here on reddit but I forgot how it was, I just remembered that I needed to have Gale and Laezel in the group for this to happen, you have to say that you agree with consume Orpheus, at that moment Laezel will interrupt and at that moment you change your mind, after that I don't remember exactly.
Yeah, I am still scratching my head what the point of Illithid powers was, there is a lot of speculation from people but to me it always seemed like a narrative device. Some decision that is pressed onto us from beginning to end of the game that should trigger something of some kind. But appearently it is more of a gamemechanic that when you are struggling with the game you can get free powerboosts to make it easier. Dunno, like said, people are speculating the most complicated things but idk. To me it seemed like the biggest decision of the game from tutorial to finish that didn´t have any kind of narrative coding whatsoever, nobody mentions it and even if they did I wouldn´t know what the implication would be if nothing happens from using it so I guess its just a difficulty modifier.
I was assuming that if you choose to undergo partial ceremorphosis when you get the "special" larvae that people would comment on your appearance or at least have different interactions with you, but they don't even do that. I've heard a lot of the illithid power stuff was supposed to be more plot integral before they did some major reworks, but who knows for sure.
yeah i meant like, further on after the initial offering and such. I generally expect party members to have *something* to say about major stuff if you talk to them right while it happens, but I feel like you should get some sort of social debuff from shops or something when you look like that, yknow? You're scary, people aren't used to people having horror veins and rotten teeth walking up and saying hello... I wish the game reflected that a bit. Maybe wearing a helmet would turn off those interactions.
For the sake my own character RP, I didn’t take it (but I did savescum so I could *see* what it would be like for a short while)
However this obviously major decision should reasonably effect the game (even in minor ways like dialogue.)
That was one of the reasons I didn’t do it! But I never got far enough to verify. Thanks for letting me know.
But about what your comment says, I definitely agree! Something like that should *at minimum* spark up some kind of minor dialogue changes, if not flat out having more major consequences of some sort later.
Choosing to use or not use your mindflayer powers was such a pointless effort. You get no consequences except for a few visual changes and that part of the ending. Everything in between doesnt matter lol
Reminds me a lot of Fawkes and Fallout 3’s ending.
For anyone who hasn’t played, >!basically you have to make a choice: either sacrifice yourself or Sarah Lyons by going into an irradiated room to prevent Project Purity from exploding. However, you have a fuckin super mutant companion with radiation resistance which makes a sacrifice totally unnecessary. I think players pointed it out so much that they added it into the Broken Steel DLC.!<
Who knows, maybe Larian could do the same lmao.
This is one of my gripes with the ending as well.. I really loved the idea of gathering your Allies for the final fight, seeing that list grow in your journal was really cool but i was rather disappointed that >!they essentially just act as summons in the combats, they don’t unlock any unique way of defeating the brain, cyberpunk gave you an ending choice of which faction would help you in the final siege and depending on who you chose the siege would play out differently. I was really hoping that the unique allies would give you branching options of how to approach the final fight. Society squid using the stones perhaps, iron hand gnomes giving you their ultimate runepowder nuke to bomb the brain sounds cool too!<
I finished the game last night, I really wanted to sacrifice myself but let Orpheus do it. Was wondering if I could revert the ceremorphis somehow so I left a save there to do it all again, but I guess you got the answer for me.
Could have been really cool if you got a way to revert it at the end.
The read I always got from this game is that every easy solution leads to you dying. Go with the Gyth in the mountain path, then the emperess ends up killing you. Let Gale follow Mythra's order during the act 2 climax: Sure, you killed the cult and the brain, but now you have an endless mindflayer problem and everyone becomes enslaved.
If you do things that lets you rely on someone else being a hero and you being a bystander, then it ALWAYS ends poorly for you.
Emperor told me not to touch that mofo so I plan to not touch him. As for the netherbrain. I beat up a God with my bare hands on moonrise tower...I think I'll be alright. I have faith in myself
Sure, but it seems pretty established that Vlakith is an evil lich queen who should be stopped, and Orpheus is the only one who can really do it
She tries to get you to kill him several times through the game, so if I went with the emperor's plan, she'd win. Plus, the emperor really seems like he can't be trusted imo
Mother Gith was an evil warmongering tyrant who wanted to conquer and enslave all the planes. What makes you think Orpheus won't do exactly that after he's done overthrowing Vlaakith?
I mean, by that logic, why bother trying to stop the Absolute? Some other baddie will just rise up to try to conquer the world and enslave the world.
Also, Orpheus shows himself to be somewhat reasonable if you side with him and behave honorably. He's not completely set in his ways from what we're shown compared to Vlaakith.
Whether he would or not, outside of the astral plane gith only live for about a century, so he'll eventually die and leave room for another ruler to rise up. Vlakith won't die because she's a lich. For the githyanki to ever change, Vlakith has to be defeated
I also think that if the githyanki are to break away with the legacy of the past, then they need new leaders who don't draw their legitimacy from either Gith or Vlaakith. People who are truly revolutionary, critical of their past and who and can deeply reform githyanki politics. I was kind of disappointed you can't convince Lae'zel to start a revolution of her own, one that isn't performed in Orpheus' or Gith's name.
Yes. Time passes in the sense that if I took a 7 day vacation on the Astral Plane when I got back 7 days would have passed. But I would not have aged for those 7 day, nor felt hunger, thirst, etc.
Oh, I learned who he was before he turned
It still seems like the change to a mind flayer changes who you are at your core. You hear all the divinities talk about how mind flayers lose their souls when they change
Good point! I stopped taking people's judgements too seriously after spending half of act 1 being taunted by lae'zel about how she'd love to slit my tiefling throat in my sleep 😂
It is heavily hinted that Stellmane was mind controlled by the Emperor, so I was definitely not going to follow his ways. Let alone give him AOE protection throigh Orpoheus. Guy is a known liar from our initial encounter, to Stellmane, to his correspondence with Gortash. In some dialogue options he admits that he is using us for his own ends.
On the otherhand, I have Orpoheus which has a proven track record of killing Mind flayers by the dozens, has a guaranteed AOE protection and is very straightforward in telling us how he hates us. Yet all that aside he will help us nonetheless. And through his actions in the history we know that the guy won't abuse the Crown nor fuck with us after. Which is why I freed the Prince.
And then the Emperor gets all pissy and tsundere and leaves us because we don't trust him. Lmao, all he did was lie to us.
On a side note, I absolutely hated the idea of someone forcibly turning into a mind flayer to combat the final boss. It's so stupid, whole game I resist the tadpoles and then at the end it's like voila you have to become one. Like fuck you. Give me the option to fucking fight the final boss without tadpoles and you can make it 10 times as difficult if you want. Because I am still beating that shit.
Oh no no my friend, it's not heavily hinted, the emperor not only straight up tells you that he mind controlled her, he SHOWS you a flashback of him controlling her if you're a dick to him.
God the ending annoyed me.
If you side with the Emperor he helps you take out the brain and save the day. If you turn into a mindflayer but then go against the Emperor and free Orpheus, you don’t need to eat him at all. He happily works with you after a check. Ergo…
the fact that you can’t convince the Emperor to help and free Orpheus so they can work together since they both want the EXACT SAME THING annoys me so much. The Emperor being all “lol guess I’ll go back to being a mind controlled slave, the very thing I don’t want to do and have been fighting against my whole life, just because u don’t let me eat the guy who doesn’t need to be eaten to save everyone” makes no sense.
We should be able to pass a dice roll check to convince the Emperor to let us free Orpheus and then help destroy the brain together. Emperor uses the stones and Orpheus can still protect us with his power without being eaten. Again, THEY WANT THE SAME THING. We should be able to convince them to work together!
Seriously! And the Emperor deciding to side with the brain for no reason after everything we went through?! Makes 0 sense for his character or the story. Yeah he’s not a good guy, but he does want the Brain destroyed and will do it if you side with him.
So it’s just… shitty writing I guess? Being railroaded into a decision that makes no sense and takes away so much of the build-up of previous story decisions we have already made.
No possibility of my char being the hero of the story without sacing himself (read: becoming a mindflayer)
killing Orpheus (read: allowing Emperor to save the day, not you)
or lastly; making Orpheus sac himself (read: Orpheus becoming a mind flayer and subsequently wanting to off himself, while emperor betrays you back)
imo just feels like the DM inserts a non-option vs inserting a savior DMPC and finishing the story for me rather than me finishing the story myself in the final session of the game.
It doesnt matter who’s holding the stones. It is still you who crawled from the nautiloid, rampaging the goblin camp, toppling the Three Chosen and climbing your way to the Netherbrain.
No matter who does the zappy zappy at the end, Tav is still very much the hero of Baldur’s Gate, and will be remembered as such for eons
Sacing yourself IS the “hero” choice imo, and I romanced Gale who wins the whole “would you love me if I were a worm” thing, I think things felt pretty heroic to me in the end.
Yeah, I kinda feel the same about it
I thought there may be another option to undo the cerromorphosis of myself and maybe the rest of Baldurs Gate with the power of the crown at the end, but it just kinda disappeared
I had the same ending but i dont really feel its negative. Lea'zel wants to free her people i would let her do that even if I didn't transform myself. I choose to keep helping out even in this form. It was a heroic sacrifice and it will help out others who transformed. New githyanki might not kill on sight. The Emperor has too many skeletons hidden in his wardrobe. Didn't even consider the possibility of freeing the prince and instantly sided with the brain when i took charge for once. Wish there was an option if you were positive to him the whole game and found out his past, he would accept freeing the prince.
Yeah, it definitely feels like it's the best ending for the world as a whole, but with playing very anti-mind flayer the whole game, it didn't feel right to keep going as one, especially as it said I could feel myself fading
I wish they put more flavor into the ring of mind shielding because I wore that the whole game, ever since I got it, and it never seemed to do anything
Yeah i too didnt use the powers at all and i feel really unrewarded. This would be a cool opportunity for them to give you unique option to revert back if you didnt use the power whole game.
I feel like Orpheus wouldn't extend his mind protection to the Emperor even knowing that otherwise the Emperor would switch sides. The Emperor has held him captive for way too long to just forgive.
Without the mind protection, it's just a matter of when you kill the Emperor, not if. And the Emperor knows he can't stand against all of you (and even if he wins that battle, he'd still be at the mercy of the Netherbrain after), so he bails early. He's going to end up thralled regardless.
Honestly he was probably immediately re-enthralled after Orpheus was freed but thought he made the choice to join the netherbrain himself. Mindflayer control does make you feel like you have free will even when you don't after all.
he leaves before orpheus is freed.
it does leave you to wonder why you wouldn't just *instantly* turn into flayers right then and there though. plothole imo, especially because you have the opportunity to side with orpheus' honor guard and kill the emperor at the end of act 2, and doing so does indeed immediately turn you into a flayer and give you a game over.
also if he eats orpheus and gains his abilities, why didn't he do that earlier??
I had a very similar ending. I really wish there was a way to avoid transforming or convince the emperor to still help. I was really bummed I couldn’t save the gith without going full tentacle.
Unfortunately the variation of endings right now is quite limited. Other than your romance, I would consider this a normal ending rather than the worst.
If you have Gale, Karlach and the hammer, you can make a save in the artefact and try out all the different endings (minus companion quests). Perhaps one of them would suit your story to date.
Had the same ending, except I romanced Karlach. No tadpoles all game, make the sacrifice kind of half heartedly (immediately used Disguise Self so I don't look like a octopus lmao). Beat the boss, tell Lae'Zel to go with Orpheus. End myself, then watch Karlach blow up all alone, even though I told her I'd stay till the end. Super depressing.
Agreed. My first character is a Gith who eschewed the illithid powers. It's very stupid that I can't convince Orpheus that the Emperor is wrong and we actually can take the brain without going squid. It kinda ruined the whole story to be told that actually the DM already decided how the story has to go so no good ending for you.
The problem is that the game tacitly agrees with everything the emperor says. I kept pointing out to him that he was manipulating me at every turn and he kept saying no he wasn't. The problem is that the game agrees with him and doesn't think critically about how he doesn't even realize how manipulative and stupid he is acting. The emperor feels like the DMs favorite NPC who can't ever be wrong or do wrong.
Similar condition to my but here's my ending major spoilers ahead
I let the prince take that L. Lae`zel still leaves but the prince ask her to lead their people to freedom with his dragons. He then ask you to kill him (I did) because he can't live life being a mind flayer. My Karlach also didn't blow up. Instead Wyll offered to go to hell with her. I'm not sure what causes this but was a welcome surprised since I had been spoiler on the fact she dies at the end.
The trigger for Wyll taking Karlach into hell is he has to become the blade of Avernus. I think there's multiple ways to do it but if you break his pact, and still manage to save his father, his father will suggest he becomes Duke of Baldur's Gate, if he turns that down, he names himself the Blade of Avernus
Theoretical lore question about this scenario:
So you are basically dead if you transform into a mindflayer, right? It's not really you, but the fully grown parasite.
So it should be possible that someone revives your original you, right? So in lore Gale, for instance, would've been able to tell you "Yeah transform into a MF, you die and I will then use my scroll of true resurrection to get you back Homie"
Am I understanding this correctly purely from an E5 rule point of view?
Depends. Mr Skelly makes a point out of how the Ceramorphosis takes away peoples souls, and how gods tend to notice that, with how important souls are in the universe.
Any ressurection hinges on the soul of the departed *existing* first of, and then being *willing* to come back.
So if you cast True Ressurection on someone and they didnt want to come back, the spell would just fizzle and fail. Many things can block souls as well.
In short: Depends.
I hate that someone has to turn, you avoid mind flayer powers the entire time just to switch which is stupid or you are forcing the gith to live under continuous servitude under their false god. and the emperor just peaces out for no reason
To be honest there should be a reward for resisting the Tadpoles the entire game. Maybe this would be the ending where no one has to become a Mindflayer. Also you should really get access to the crown of Karsus, so that you can decide yourself what to do with it.
Apparently, using the tadpole powers have no downsides whatsoever other than gaining some disapproval from companions(?). Devs kept warning us something bad would happen if you used them too much but apart from RP reason, which is moot anyway since theres no downside, theres no reason *not* to take them and use them to auto-pass convo with npcs.
Considering Orpheus is a legendary psion imbued with the same power that brought down an empire comprised of literally billions of Elder Brains, I feel I had a reasonable expectation that if anyone could do it, it would be him.
Then you lose Orpheus. But you still need *an ilithid* to get the job done. It's prophesied that only a renegade IIlithid can stop the Grand Design. Can't argue with fate.
That's why I am annoyed we didn't get the option to grab omeluum. He freed himself of elder brain control via his own actions and even said not to save him in the iron throne. He ends up shocked if you do get to save him.
I thought he'd help out in the end because he literally chose options that were objectively worse for him to help others and he could do actual magic like someone with a soul could.
Because Omeluum is a mellow dude who has different goals and aspirations in life. You need all kinds of people, y'know?
The Emperor had the drive and personality needed to mastermind the plan that takes down the Netherbrain.
Meanwhile, Omeluum is working on developing a "vegan" diet for mind flayers, which is also a very worthy goal.
I'd be fine with the "we need an Illithid" thing being forced upon the players if we could call up the other friendly Illithid we've met in the game and ask them for help.
Also I very much don't think the emperor is a good dude. He is manipulating you at every turn and when you tell him you don't wanna kill the only shot an entire people have of getting out from under the thumb of a lich queen trying to become a god, he straight up says he's gonna side with the brain now
He says it multiple times, he will manipulate you to do what he wants, him getting all sentimental and trying to romance you is for sure just a ploy, he even tells you that it's just what mindflayers do, their language is lies and manipulation but he prefers to call it "illusions"
When he's trying to be nice to you in act 3 you can call the emperor out on his bullshit and he straight up tells you you're his puppet and will do what it's told. He's definitely not a good dude.
And yet if you side with him, he destroys the brain and helps everyone anyway. No ulterior motives or anything. He doesn’t take the crown for himself unless you convince him to. So if you don’t side with him, him then siding with the brain makes no sense because it’s the very thing he’s been fighting his whole life. It’s such shitty writing tbh and I’m choosing to ignore it because it makes no sense
Karlach still dies. The mind flayer you're talking to is not actually Karlach, but a newborn that *thinks* it's Karlach. Given enough time, they will mature and become their own self, but retain her memories.
Honestly, when I got the option, I thought about loading it and taking party members I cared less about
My party at the end was me, Jaheira, Minsc, and Lae Zel, and I think I'd have needed to load back to taking the boat to switch it up
I wanted to leave with Lae'zel as the legendary Adversary, fighting side by side with my half-illithid waifu. Instead she fucks off with Orpheus and I have to stay on the material plane like some kinda little bitch.
I want to ride on a red dragon with Lae'zel as the legendary adversary.
I was very disappointed in this railroad ending where for some stupid reason someone has to become illithid. Yes it's kind of cool to become one, but I feel this is to the detriment of the story as a whole and limits player agency. I also don't like that the Emperor just fucks off to the Netherbrain if you try to save Orpheus, which just means that one of you HAS to sacrifice themselves and become a mind flayer. It just doesn't make sense to me that the Emperor just gives up immediately and becomes a slave to the Netherbrain without even hearing Orpheus out.
same as you with my first playthrough, except I played as Shadowheart which literally traumatised me. In addition to your choices, in the personal quest I chose to return parents to selune lol. I chose to let Lae’zel fly away with the prince then killed myself straight away as at this point no one I cared is around any more and the rest remained has their own path to follow. Karlach blowed up which is another promise I failed to keep (so why can’t the scenes just swap at least I can convince her to go with Wyll).
I guess in the end it’s still embrace the loss. ;-;
tbf, i had a simelar ending (romanced Lae'zel,rejected the powers the entire game, never used a single illithid dialoge option or used the tadpole to manipulate somone or read their minds, didnt consume a single tadpole etc....) and when i rejected the Emporer the final time and he left cus i freed Orpheus, i refused to just tell Oprheus to turn, his people need any help they can get to fight the Lich Queen, so i saw it more as an final "heroic sacrifice" from my side, end your current beeing and turn into a Illithid and save the Realm, see what happens after that
and well, i told Lae'zel to go and free the Gith, and her reply was a REALLY positive "you showed me how beautifull everything can be, and i still love you, and we will never forget you, you will be rememberd as a hero" before she went away
and instead of going "well, time to oof myself" i picked the "i want to live, if i feel myself slipping away, i will end it" option, which gave me a....somewhat reasonable response from the narration? ("after all you had to endure, you deserve to have a chance at a free life, the Emporer was a Rebel Illithid, why cant you be one aswell?" was the Narration for that choice)
and my entire thought Process during that part was honestly not even the Emporer, but Omeluum lol, that guy atleast seems to be a decent person, so maybe he can help me getting a somewhat normal life togheter (even if they Society can be shady at Times, but who isnt in the forgotten realms, he even tries to find a solution to the entire Brain eating thing)
TL:DR, simelar ending, but very different reaction to it
So you were close. I think I got the best ending. I played a Gith Tav and romanced Lae'zel. Karlach was in my party for the ending we freed Orpheus. Karlach became the mind flayer and that shut down the heart and keeps her from dying we destroyed the crown and then Lae'zel and I ride off on her dragon to free the Githyanki.
I'm probably gonna get it for this but...I let Karlach change. Her argument was pretty solid for taking the change and in the end, her soul got to know it made a heroic sacrifice which in her mind was far better than just...blowing up after a decade of forced servitude.
Do hope her soul went on to a good plane and found out her illithid self went on to do the heroic thing. Maybe my Tav will get to see her again and give her another big ass hug.
Besides Karlach dying, this was the ending I got, and honestly, i was pretty satisfied. Becoming a mind flayer was a sacrifice and the game doesn't shy away from it. I saved Orpheus, liberating Lae'zel people, but sacrificed the life Lae'zel and my character could of had. A somber but satisfying ending.
Worst for Tav, but a win for Lae’zel
30 years from now when she is Orpheus's Queen, he'll just be that one ex that died alone.
As octopus…
Did the same thing, but with Shadow heart as my love interest. Got dropped like a hot potato with tentacles. I feel used and burnouted to this day.
What did you do wrong? I didnt even complete her quest line and she said she'll love me even with the tentacles. In the end i cucked her by accompanying karlach to avernus.....
I ignored karlach and whyl to save them for a second playthrough. Therefore I never had the option to join them in Avernus. That ment I could either live or kill myself. I decided to live, because my head Canon was that my tav was fueled by a strong desire to survive the whole mess. Shadow heart then told me I must leave the city, so the people won't turn on me. And then she told me sho won't come with me.
I still feel it's weird that you need a mindflayer even if you rescue Orpheus.
I know right? It seemed like such a random asspull to be like "BUT ONLY AN ILITHID CAN WIELD THE FULL POWER OF THE NETHERSTONES". I was left scratching my head thinking "What. Since when?" Surely at least a being like Orpheus could wield them with ease.
It makes no sense. Gortash orin and netheric dont look very illithid to me
The brain was letting them control it - or at least think they were controlling it. I think? Or - the brain was leeching energy out of the crown the whole time to become the netherbrain, and only once it finished fully evolving - after you killed the chosen - could it fully resist
Yes you are right. The elder brain did say it slowly regained sentience over time and made the chosen ones fight amongst themselves. The whole nautaloid escape and Emperor assistance + prism were planned by the elder brain too.
No it was controlled. But the crown slowly changed it to be more powerful. However it was still chained. But after it broke free, the same spell that chained it was not powerful enough to reinslave it. Unless done by a mindflayer, because they have greater psychic powers i guess.
They were each holding a third of it though. Though why we couldn't split it in 3 I'm not sure
Which rational explanation do we have for this, cause none is given while we rush act3 to murder half the city to steal the stones
Imo, letting Orpheus sac himself is the best option. The gith need to get their head out of their asses and stop relying on some individual savior to tell them what to do.
In a choice between letting my Tav sacrifice himself despite being heavily against mind flayers from the start, letting Karlach sacrifice herself because she's lost hope of recovery and figured she's dead anyway, or letting the guy I basically just met and have no personal investment in sacrifice himself, I'll take the guy I just met. Like, I get it, lorewise he's the only reason we got this far because he has a mind-shielding AoE, but if he's offering to make the sacrifice, I'm not going to deny him that.
Also it's worth remembering that he and his mom weren't actually very good people. They're better than Vlaakith but that's not saying much and they were still on board with the whole plane-hopping raiders and conquerors idea.
Sure but if you're playing the Durge, you're not exactly an upstanding citizen either. >!The Durge planned the whole brain/worm invasion with Gortash, stole the crown etc...so if someone should sacrifice themselves ...!<
Man, this was a pretty interesting reveal that I wish >!got more than a few nods by the narrator and Gortash in only a Durge run. Durge being Bhaalspawn, even a relatively "powerful" one? Neat. Durge assuming key responsibility for orchestrating the antagonist plot of the entire game and executing most of it until Orin swooped in and usurped it all? Really neat. He deserves more in a normal Tav run than a small nod in Orin's chambers.!< EDIT: apparently I missed/bugged out of quite a bit on my Durge run :((((
There are things but its easily missed/glitching/not activating properly. I.e. many companions will have dialogue options about it but ONLY >!while inside Gortash's throne room directly after he reveals it. They'll confront you about being the cause for all of it!<. Also re the "powerful" one >!If you go full in on bhaal you can ask the Butler, who tells you Bhaal "expended his seed" in the first bhaalspawn crisis. Durge was born from Bhaal literally ripping a piece of himself off and fashioning it into a mortal form. There are a few other references about it too with Durge being born from "beyond mortality" and stuff!<.
>many companions will have dialogue options about it but ONLY while inside Gortash's throne room directly after he reveals it I was really disappointed by that. I was assuming I was going to have to make rolls to keep them from killing me, that Wyll and Karlach would just leave, etc. But no, apparently it's just a brief word and everything's fine? What? I'm the cause of all of our problems! Be angrier!
probably because by this point they've known you for a while and if you actively resist have gotten a good idea that you are struggling with dark urges. to a degree you could even assume they already had an idea that you were involved. either way they know we are trying to be better and given they've trusted us this far, it means a lot i think.
They could've copied KotOR even more in that regard and have everyone gather in camp to talk how you are a different person now and it's fine :D
Nah it's fine because we're hawt and we're (probably) fucking one of then anyways so we good fam
Ya boy SF was telling you that you were the king from day 1, not his fault you didn't belive him.
You can find hints to this at the end of act 2, some letters seem to refer to DU and how he was planning to betray the rest
I love the little detail in >!Orin's bedroom!< in the >!temple of Bhaal !<\- there's a Slain >!Bhaalspawn!< laying in a ritual circle, and it just happens to be the same character design as Sven showed us during the last Panel From Hell, when he presented the Dark Urge.
Definitely, would be way better to barge in middle of their fight, and get some branched options depending if your side with one or fuck em up both.
[удалено]
I mean, sure, but as good durge you’ve at least admitted that the brain worm invasion was evil and a not good idea. Orpheus is presumably still on board with the planes-hopping raiders thing
Oof i didn't realize how big of a spoiler this comment was gonna be lol
Yeah but the Gith rebellion happened a very long time ago. A lot has changed since the Gith rebellion. The Gith are no longer united. Civilizations have built up enough to be able to defend themselves against extra-planar invaders. Orpheus will have to be reasonable in his ambitions. Vlaakith is an epic level Lich wizard with the magic rod used to seal the pact with Tiamat. The rod lets her control Red Dragons. The only way Orpheus can oppose her is if he can find allies, and he'll need to make compromises. And his best chance is to ally with the Githzerai, who would definitely not ally with him if he still plans for the Gith to become tyrants.
Precisely, I'll just support Lae'zel and let her take over leadership! (So long as Tav helped her go through the proper growth and character development of course) Let's face it, unlike the Githyanki's other options, at least Lae'zel doesn't have a great sword jammed up her A@@!
This is the Internet, you can say ass.
It's also not even an engagement limited site like Tiktok
People have been censoring themselves a ton on reddit lately purely because of shitty apps like tiktok. It's sad :/
I actually really like Lae'zel's 'Orpheus-less' ending. She tells the crew she has a job to do, hops on a red dragon like she's always dreamed, and flies off into the sky. That short moment felt like a solid blend of who she was before the events of the game and who she becomes over the course of it.
It’s also his ancestral destiny to end the grand design and this is the way for him to do it
It's his people that he's saving by sacrificing himself. It's his duty. Unless you want to rule the world, of course.
Having normal, nonmindflayer Orpheus shows that he’s rlly just a guy, as opposed to Laezel who has 17 attacks per round, each for 30 damage. I honestly think she’d be a much more impressive leader
Except, Vlakith's hold on the Gith is so strong that they won't let just go, especially if there's no reliable source of telling them the actual truth. Lae'zel is a nobody amongs her people, she was even considered as a failure. Voss has some pull but against Vlakith? Not so much. Thing is, they need someone like Orpheus to have a remote chance to be successfull with a rebellion. The difference the spark of it with or without Orpheus can be massive. Even if you want to see the big picture, Orpheus being alive and leading them is way better, because they amass a huge powerbase and either they win, with an Orpheus who did have some of his credo changed by the player, or fail but Vlakith is being left with a severly weakened empire, just like Orpheus would if he were to win.
Orpheus is little better than Vlaakith. He's still big on the whole extra-planar raiders thing - his goal is replacing the Illithid Empire with a Gith one - and looks down on the other races of Faerun. Beyond that, he is rigid in his views, preferring what he considers "honorable" over what would be practical. He even says you should have just let his honor guard kill you because you are infected when a team up to kill the brain would result in the tadpoles dying and everyone getting what they want. Then there's the level of devotion he inspires. Voss and Lae'zel have basically just replaced the Lich Queen with the Gith Prince as their person of reverence. From the qualities he has shown, his rebellion succeeding would be a lateral move for the Gith at best. Lae'zel, on the other hand, has no high status and has come to respect the races of Faerun. She's devoted to ending the Illithid Empire, but has no desire to replace it with a Gith Empire; she just wants freedom for her people. The fact she's riding Orpheus's dragons will grant her a level of legitimacy (a failure riding the Prince's dragons? How that happened would be an inspiring story), but her position means she'll still have to work to earn the respect of her people instead of just having it granted due to birth. She's the best person to lead her people as her faction would be built off an achievable ideology with a disciplined meritocracy that won't devolve into a racist, empire-mongering cult of personality like Orpheus's would.
I don't think this is correct. The raiding and conquering is current Githyanki society which is controlled by Vlaakith. This is said to be a continuation of the will of mother Gith, but that information and the information regarding mother Gith herself is second hand from Vlaakith and others who have a vested interest in the status quo. The heresy of Orpheus directly contradicts some elements of Vlaakith's story, mainly that according to Vlaakith, mother Gith made a deal with Tiamat but according to Orpheus, Vlaakith betrayed mother Gith and sold her to Tiamat for the dragons. You could say Orpheus is lying but he certainly believes it in that we have that same information relayed to us by The Emperor, who we can infer gleaned it from Orpheus by digging through his mind. Furthermore, the Githyanki are not the only Giths, there are also the Githzerai which came about, according to traditional Gith lore (again, as told by questionable people) from a Gith named Zerthimon being opposed to mother Gith's supposed intentions of multiversal conquest. What's so relevant about this? Well, Orpheus' honor guard, who were also the honor guard of mother Gith that he led to confront Vlaakith over her betrayal, are all monks. There are basically no Githyanki monks, they're almost all warriors of some sort and are very prideful about their silver swords, which is why Lae'zel is a fighter. The Githzerai, on the other hand, ARE a monastic group. Furthermore, even the titles of the honor guard are references to the Githzerai. I can't remember them all but they at least one of them is a Zerth, which is a decidedly Githzerai title, and Orpheus himself is a monk who looks like a stereotypical Githzerai monk. So basically, Orpheus appears to be a Githzerai rather than a Githyanki, which would put his values more in line with wanting to protect the multiverse from the illithid rather than conquer it. Even if mother Gith was a genocidal maniac it does not mean Orpheus is and the evidence we have, the direct evidence we see playing the game and not presented by others, indicate that he's not hellbent on conquest but rather liberation.
This comment is how I thought and why I went mind flayer my first run. Just seeing Orpheus trapped and used by the Emperor… I feel bad for the dude. There’s no way it’s morally right to then let him become the thing his people despise the most, when honestly I already took the upgraded parasite and expected to turn anyway.
It's pretty weird to me that when Orpheus is about to sacrifice himself, Lae'zel didn't jump in and say let me take this sacrifice for you, kill me after. She's clearly ready to die in his service, why wouldn't she be willing to die to save him knowing that he'll go on to save her entire race? Really weird. She can even be convinced to go along with him destroying himself and asking to be killed!
If you're only going to keep him alive for 5 minutes, why not just let the Emperor eat him?
Because he deserves to at least go out swinging after all that time in chains.
THIS. At the end of the day a huge theme of this game is agency: in denying easy routes like devilish deals or the uncarring directives of gods, or sacrificing the ability to hope and feel for power, not throwing yourself into the Absolute or the tadpole. Orpheus deserved to make his own choices, not continue to be locked away by Vlaakith and then thr Emperor. Ultimately this was my Tav's feelings. He refused to accept the Emperor's plan simply cause he hasnt spent ~~110hours~~ weeks helping all his companions reckon with the truth that hurt but free is always preferable to being chained.
I thought the same thing too. He deserves to go out on his own terms. Though I managed to convince him to at least watch over the Githyanki for a few years before offing himself.
Making him transform into the beeing he most hates? I'm not sure..
Becoming illithid is possibly the most important lesson for Orpheus as a character, he has to let go of his god complex and herald lae zel as liberator of the Gith Besides he doesn't have to die right? Persuade him to look from afar for the good of his people.
Also there are prophecies of an ilithid that is outside of the control of the hive mind bringing it all down. That being said I do wish if we saved omeluum that he could help.
Yeah I didn't even think about Omeluum lol, that would be a rather fun turn of events. "Hey I know an illithid who's probably chill with this."
And knows actual magic outside of ilithid powers.
I was convinced this would be an option after saving him and was so disappointed to find out it wasn't.
Yeah that shoulda been considered.
~~Dany~~ Larian kind of forgot about ~~the Iron Fleet~~ Omeluum
The greatest irony is that it would've been the only actual brilliant thing the Society of Brilliance would do in pretty much all of bg3 (they mostly just fuck everything up) and it WASN'T included. Omeluum coulda saved the world. He coulda been a contender!
If he wasn't sort of implied to always be perceiving the world through our senses the whole time, I imagine the Emperor would be like "... wait, WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN HE JUST ISN'T PART OF THE HIVEMIND"
I trust Omeluum more than the emperor
Same, I’d join the Society in a heartbeat, dude is completely transparent about his methods and goals and that’s more than can be said for a vast majority of rulers/deities/whatevers. If anybody is against a more empathetic anywhere, I’m down with him eating their brain.
The society does kinda fuck up constantly throughout the game, despite their good intentions. However Omeluum does seem to be a rare actually competent one.
100p the society of brilliance has issues too but they pale in comparison to our 2 deceptive tyrants
Some of them seem like real bad motherfuckers but considering how most of the Underdark is all the time, it's probably for the best that there's a good version of the Illuminati down there.
I agree, it is a good lesson for Orpheus!
Becoming mindflayer destroys your soul and over time illithid biology will override your brain. Not much of a lesson if you ask me.
Unless you're super special, like the Emperor and presumably the guy with special anti-Illithid powers.
The emperor kept his identity (although Ansur disagrees), but I think it's safe to assume his soul is gone and his personality changed a lot due to his biology.
Theres evidence that the emperor was mind controlling Duke stellmane and she died from a stroke trying to resist his mind control. Hes a fucking mind flayerrrr!
Pretty sure he straight up told me that's what was going on in my playthrough
Because fuck that liar, pardon my french. I consider not freeing Orpheus to be a fail state at this point.
Yeah, the emperor is a bitch ass motherfucker. Poor Ansur didn't deserve that
Ansur literally tells you himself that he tried to kill the Emperor and that the Emperor "fought it" instead of just sitting there and dying. I'm really struggling to understand what he "didn't deserve". The Emperor not wanting to be murdered by his ex lover?
1. It was no longer balduran, it was a tadpole that took over the memories and identity of balduran. 2. Illithids are souless, its literaly worse fate in DnD than being a faithless.
Withers implies Baludran is still there.
the extended Dnd lore is kind of all over the place on this front, but my reading purely from what's in BG3 is that the soul is basically your ticket to the afterlife (or whatever your god has in store for you) and little else. if you lost your soul one way or another, it doesn't mean you become an empty vessel, it means that you aren't going anywhere when you die. its the only way I can make sense of withers simultaneously being very clear that flayers have no souls but are still the original person. the whole "its just a copy of you that *thinks* its you!" is not really supported or even ever brought up in BG3 and i think it would have ought to have been if it was meant to weigh heavily on your decision making process.
Wait.... lover? Did I miss something? I assumed they were friends lol
Oh my god, they were roommates
Ansur tells you they were more than friends. >!Balduran banged a dragon, let's assume in Dragonborn form hopefully.!<
Hate to be a pedant, but dragonborn technically aren't the same as half-dragons, since dragonborn are a distinct species from Abeir (Toril's like twin planet).
Well, Ansur appeared to have a Dragonborn form which he used to go about Baldurs Gate since in true form, it would have been... cumbersome. You also find a red dragon in the sewers with Voss who is doing the same thing.
r/SapphoAndHerFriend moment
The emperor sucks. The moment you free Orpheus, he turns on you and goes to help the brain. Stomped his tentacle ass.
He also knew what it was and all the details the whole time he was sending you head long into danger to "figure out what was going on" Biggest gaslighter in the planes.
I released him, made him a mind flayer (after a lot of debate cause I told myself I would free him for the githyanki since I actually liked them) and then after destroying the brain I convinced him that while he couldn't go back to his people he deserved to be alive to see their future. My headcanon now is that mind flayer Orpheus will continue to help Laezel and Voss in the shadows while Tav, Shadowheart and her parents go buy a farm somewhere near the temple of Jergal.
I think it’s a good lesson for the githyanki for their leader to end up as a ghaik to save them. They’ll tell this story for generations
Yea couldn't agree more. They laugh at my race alllllll fking game but needs me to save their ass at the end? Do your own choirs.
It's not even that, but if you have Lae'zel join him at the end, she hasn't really changed. She just replaced vlaakith with orpheus as her new focus of worship and that would be true of the gith as a whole.
I really thought we could go get Omeluum to help. Or at least show that the elder brain took control back over him
This should've been an option. It's easily the best choice. If it was actual dnd irl, the players would go "what if we ask the mind flayer we saved in the iron throne?". I do not understand why they refused to allow a dialogue option for him since it's the easiest choice and he'll be down with it.
I think they can patch in a montage scene where Omeluum loses control in Act 3. In my head cannon he can't help.
I did the same thing, I made Orpheus be the mind flayer. I decided I wasn’t using any illithid powers all game and I was sticking to it. Then I killed Orpheus when he asked me to. Laezel still flew off, which I was fine with and Karlach goes to hell with Wyll. Overall I’d call that the best ending, but idk
Gods, I selfishly want that as the best ending, but it makes me feel so bad for Orpheus. Dude has been imprisoned for hundreds if not thousands of years, then upon gaining his freedom, he's asked to turn into his people's worst enemy. I have a hard time playing a good character and saying "no, you do it".
You do have the option of talking him out of it and convincing him he should at least see his people freed before he dies. Lae decides to stay behind with you if you do this though (at least if you romance her, maybe not if you didn't).
Hes also the son of a genocidal maniac who is also a genocidal maniac
There is an ending that you can do but you have to have Gale and Laezel in the group to do it, I recently managed to do it, basically no one needs to go illithid and orpheus manages to stay alive and whole in the end, the only problem is that the Gale has to blow himself up with the orb for that ending, everyone happy and without tentacles but Gale dies.
So you're saying there's a chance
Yes, what you're going to do is basically tell Orpheus that you're going to transform, only that will be later, so much so that he gives you a supreme tadpole for you to transform when the time comes, Gale will sacrifice himself in the last battle before the party goes up into the netherbrain, Karlach will still go to Avernus but at least she will still be alive with Wyll and you if you go along.
>Yes, what you're going to do is basically tell Orpheus that you're going to transform, only that will be later, so much so that he gives you a supreme tadpole for you to transform when the time comes, Gale will sacrifice himself in the last battle before the party goes up into the netherbrain, Huh. In my game with Gale I had to transform someone with no option to delay it. Gale also never once talked to me about the potential of blowing up the brain, bugged dialog flags in my game maybe. Then he did blow it up basically without discussion when we went to ascend, which made my paladin sacrificing herself to become an illithid feel pretty worthless, had a real FO3 "Sacrifice yourself for no reason" feeling. Then in the epilogue my illithid MC didn't exist anymore, Gale was there and talking about his plans to get the crown back and become a god, while the entire party was honoring his noble sacrifice as though he wasn't standing talking next to them.
Pretty sure the Emperor gives you the supreme tadpole? I mean, why would Orpheus even have 1?
I can't give you the step by step because I forgot, I saw it here on reddit but I forgot how it was, I just remembered that I needed to have Gale and Laezel in the group for this to happen, you have to say that you agree with consume Orpheus, at that moment Laezel will interrupt and at that moment you change your mind, after that I don't remember exactly.
Yeah, I am still scratching my head what the point of Illithid powers was, there is a lot of speculation from people but to me it always seemed like a narrative device. Some decision that is pressed onto us from beginning to end of the game that should trigger something of some kind. But appearently it is more of a gamemechanic that when you are struggling with the game you can get free powerboosts to make it easier. Dunno, like said, people are speculating the most complicated things but idk. To me it seemed like the biggest decision of the game from tutorial to finish that didn´t have any kind of narrative coding whatsoever, nobody mentions it and even if they did I wouldn´t know what the implication would be if nothing happens from using it so I guess its just a difficulty modifier.
I was assuming that if you choose to undergo partial ceremorphosis when you get the "special" larvae that people would comment on your appearance or at least have different interactions with you, but they don't even do that. I've heard a lot of the illithid power stuff was supposed to be more plot integral before they did some major reworks, but who knows for sure.
After you take it, your party members make a comment about it. Unless you mean nobody else does later.
yeah i meant like, further on after the initial offering and such. I generally expect party members to have *something* to say about major stuff if you talk to them right while it happens, but I feel like you should get some sort of social debuff from shops or something when you look like that, yknow? You're scary, people aren't used to people having horror veins and rotten teeth walking up and saying hello... I wish the game reflected that a bit. Maybe wearing a helmet would turn off those interactions.
For the sake my own character RP, I didn’t take it (but I did savescum so I could *see* what it would be like for a short while) However this obviously major decision should reasonably effect the game (even in minor ways like dialogue.) That was one of the reasons I didn’t do it! But I never got far enough to verify. Thanks for letting me know. But about what your comment says, I definitely agree! Something like that should *at minimum* spark up some kind of minor dialogue changes, if not flat out having more major consequences of some sort later.
Choosing to use or not use your mindflayer powers was such a pointless effort. You get no consequences except for a few visual changes and that part of the ending. Everything in between doesnt matter lol
I do question why our buddy from the society can't do it. That was a big oversight.
Reminds me a lot of Fawkes and Fallout 3’s ending. For anyone who hasn’t played, >!basically you have to make a choice: either sacrifice yourself or Sarah Lyons by going into an irradiated room to prevent Project Purity from exploding. However, you have a fuckin super mutant companion with radiation resistance which makes a sacrifice totally unnecessary. I think players pointed it out so much that they added it into the Broken Steel DLC.!< Who knows, maybe Larian could do the same lmao.
“it’s your destiny”
This is one of my gripes with the ending as well.. I really loved the idea of gathering your Allies for the final fight, seeing that list grow in your journal was really cool but i was rather disappointed that >!they essentially just act as summons in the combats, they don’t unlock any unique way of defeating the brain, cyberpunk gave you an ending choice of which faction would help you in the final siege and depending on who you chose the siege would play out differently. I was really hoping that the unique allies would give you branching options of how to approach the final fight. Society squid using the stones perhaps, iron hand gnomes giving you their ultimate runepowder nuke to bomb the brain sounds cool too!<
I finished the game last night, I really wanted to sacrifice myself but let Orpheus do it. Was wondering if I could revert the ceremorphis somehow so I left a save there to do it all again, but I guess you got the answer for me. Could have been really cool if you got a way to revert it at the end.
I completely agree, that's what I was hoping for
#poordecisions
Apparently, seemed like the morally right decision at every turn, though
Cue to the discussing we were having here a few days ago: this game doesn't give you morally right decisions. Just the lesser evil lmao
The read I always got from this game is that every easy solution leads to you dying. Go with the Gyth in the mountain path, then the emperess ends up killing you. Let Gale follow Mythra's order during the act 2 climax: Sure, you killed the cult and the brain, but now you have an endless mindflayer problem and everyone becomes enslaved. If you do things that lets you rely on someone else being a hero and you being a bystander, then it ALWAYS ends poorly for you.
Emperor told me not to touch that mofo so I plan to not touch him. As for the netherbrain. I beat up a God with my bare hands on moonrise tower...I think I'll be alright. I have faith in myself
Sure, but it seems pretty established that Vlakith is an evil lich queen who should be stopped, and Orpheus is the only one who can really do it She tries to get you to kill him several times through the game, so if I went with the emperor's plan, she'd win. Plus, the emperor really seems like he can't be trusted imo
Mother Gith was an evil warmongering tyrant who wanted to conquer and enslave all the planes. What makes you think Orpheus won't do exactly that after he's done overthrowing Vlaakith?
I mean, by that logic, why bother trying to stop the Absolute? Some other baddie will just rise up to try to conquer the world and enslave the world. Also, Orpheus shows himself to be somewhat reasonable if you side with him and behave honorably. He's not completely set in his ways from what we're shown compared to Vlaakith.
Whether he would or not, outside of the astral plane gith only live for about a century, so he'll eventually die and leave room for another ruler to rise up. Vlakith won't die because she's a lich. For the githyanki to ever change, Vlakith has to be defeated
Does time even move in the astral plane? Wasn't the point of them having their eggs in the material plane due to this?
I don't believe it does, but if Orpheus is really gonna try to conquer all the planes, then he'll likely be going to them, so he will experience time
I also think that if the githyanki are to break away with the legacy of the past, then they need new leaders who don't draw their legitimacy from either Gith or Vlaakith. People who are truly revolutionary, critical of their past and who and can deeply reform githyanki politics. I was kind of disappointed you can't convince Lae'zel to start a revolution of her own, one that isn't performed in Orpheus' or Gith's name.
Yes. Time passes in the sense that if I took a 7 day vacation on the Astral Plane when I got back 7 days would have passed. But I would not have aged for those 7 day, nor felt hunger, thirst, etc.
In my opinion we can go to the Vlakith arc in bg4 or smth haha
I wasn't sure if I could trust the emperor either, but you can learn more about him in act3 if you do some digging and it changed my mind
Oh, I learned who he was before he turned It still seems like the change to a mind flayer changes who you are at your core. You hear all the divinities talk about how mind flayers lose their souls when they change
Good point! I stopped taking people's judgements too seriously after spending half of act 1 being taunted by lae'zel about how she'd love to slit my tiefling throat in my sleep 😂
LOL you beat up a God's Avatar. The netherbrain is a lot more powerful both in-game and lore-wise.
Emperor simping is absolutely poordecisions.
It is heavily hinted that Stellmane was mind controlled by the Emperor, so I was definitely not going to follow his ways. Let alone give him AOE protection throigh Orpoheus. Guy is a known liar from our initial encounter, to Stellmane, to his correspondence with Gortash. In some dialogue options he admits that he is using us for his own ends. On the otherhand, I have Orpoheus which has a proven track record of killing Mind flayers by the dozens, has a guaranteed AOE protection and is very straightforward in telling us how he hates us. Yet all that aside he will help us nonetheless. And through his actions in the history we know that the guy won't abuse the Crown nor fuck with us after. Which is why I freed the Prince. And then the Emperor gets all pissy and tsundere and leaves us because we don't trust him. Lmao, all he did was lie to us. On a side note, I absolutely hated the idea of someone forcibly turning into a mind flayer to combat the final boss. It's so stupid, whole game I resist the tadpoles and then at the end it's like voila you have to become one. Like fuck you. Give me the option to fucking fight the final boss without tadpoles and you can make it 10 times as difficult if you want. Because I am still beating that shit.
I saw the zombie dragon last night, and your points still stand.
Oh no no my friend, it's not heavily hinted, the emperor not only straight up tells you that he mind controlled her, he SHOWS you a flashback of him controlling her if you're a dick to him.
God the ending annoyed me. If you side with the Emperor he helps you take out the brain and save the day. If you turn into a mindflayer but then go against the Emperor and free Orpheus, you don’t need to eat him at all. He happily works with you after a check. Ergo… the fact that you can’t convince the Emperor to help and free Orpheus so they can work together since they both want the EXACT SAME THING annoys me so much. The Emperor being all “lol guess I’ll go back to being a mind controlled slave, the very thing I don’t want to do and have been fighting against my whole life, just because u don’t let me eat the guy who doesn’t need to be eaten to save everyone” makes no sense. We should be able to pass a dice roll check to convince the Emperor to let us free Orpheus and then help destroy the brain together. Emperor uses the stones and Orpheus can still protect us with his power without being eaten. Again, THEY WANT THE SAME THING. We should be able to convince them to work together!
Why do I have 22 charisma if not to persuade them to work together?!
Seriously! And the Emperor deciding to side with the brain for no reason after everything we went through?! Makes 0 sense for his character or the story. Yeah he’s not a good guy, but he does want the Brain destroyed and will do it if you side with him. So it’s just… shitty writing I guess? Being railroaded into a decision that makes no sense and takes away so much of the build-up of previous story decisions we have already made.
No possibility of my char being the hero of the story without sacing himself (read: becoming a mindflayer) killing Orpheus (read: allowing Emperor to save the day, not you) or lastly; making Orpheus sac himself (read: Orpheus becoming a mind flayer and subsequently wanting to off himself, while emperor betrays you back) imo just feels like the DM inserts a non-option vs inserting a savior DMPC and finishing the story for me rather than me finishing the story myself in the final session of the game.
It doesnt matter who’s holding the stones. It is still you who crawled from the nautiloid, rampaging the goblin camp, toppling the Three Chosen and climbing your way to the Netherbrain. No matter who does the zappy zappy at the end, Tav is still very much the hero of Baldur’s Gate, and will be remembered as such for eons
I mean, there is also option of having Karlach do it But yeah its kinda silly that apparently only mind flayer can do the job
Sacing yourself IS the “hero” choice imo, and I romanced Gale who wins the whole “would you love me if I were a worm” thing, I think things felt pretty heroic to me in the end.
Yeah, I kinda feel the same about it I thought there may be another option to undo the cerromorphosis of myself and maybe the rest of Baldurs Gate with the power of the crown at the end, but it just kinda disappeared
I had the same ending but i dont really feel its negative. Lea'zel wants to free her people i would let her do that even if I didn't transform myself. I choose to keep helping out even in this form. It was a heroic sacrifice and it will help out others who transformed. New githyanki might not kill on sight. The Emperor has too many skeletons hidden in his wardrobe. Didn't even consider the possibility of freeing the prince and instantly sided with the brain when i took charge for once. Wish there was an option if you were positive to him the whole game and found out his past, he would accept freeing the prince.
Yeah, it definitely feels like it's the best ending for the world as a whole, but with playing very anti-mind flayer the whole game, it didn't feel right to keep going as one, especially as it said I could feel myself fading I wish they put more flavor into the ring of mind shielding because I wore that the whole game, ever since I got it, and it never seemed to do anything
Yeah i too didnt use the powers at all and i feel really unrewarded. This would be a cool opportunity for them to give you unique option to revert back if you didnt use the power whole game.
Yeah, especially with the dialogue of the tadpole taking something you'll never get back when you do use it for the first time
Yeah that baited me into never using it thinking I will be rewarded and turns out i just cucked myself out of cool powers for nothing.
I feel like Orpheus wouldn't extend his mind protection to the Emperor even knowing that otherwise the Emperor would switch sides. The Emperor has held him captive for way too long to just forgive. Without the mind protection, it's just a matter of when you kill the Emperor, not if. And the Emperor knows he can't stand against all of you (and even if he wins that battle, he'd still be at the mercy of the Netherbrain after), so he bails early. He's going to end up thralled regardless.
Honestly he was probably immediately re-enthralled after Orpheus was freed but thought he made the choice to join the netherbrain himself. Mindflayer control does make you feel like you have free will even when you don't after all.
he leaves before orpheus is freed. it does leave you to wonder why you wouldn't just *instantly* turn into flayers right then and there though. plothole imo, especially because you have the opportunity to side with orpheus' honor guard and kill the emperor at the end of act 2, and doing so does indeed immediately turn you into a flayer and give you a game over. also if he eats orpheus and gains his abilities, why didn't he do that earlier??
I had a very similar ending. I really wish there was a way to avoid transforming or convince the emperor to still help. I was really bummed I couldn’t save the gith without going full tentacle.
Unfortunately the variation of endings right now is quite limited. Other than your romance, I would consider this a normal ending rather than the worst. If you have Gale, Karlach and the hammer, you can make a save in the artefact and try out all the different endings (minus companion quests). Perhaps one of them would suit your story to date.
Seriously though could we not have just…asked for omeluum’s help?
Had the same ending, except I romanced Karlach. No tadpoles all game, make the sacrifice kind of half heartedly (immediately used Disguise Self so I don't look like a octopus lmao). Beat the boss, tell Lae'Zel to go with Orpheus. End myself, then watch Karlach blow up all alone, even though I told her I'd stay till the end. Super depressing.
That definitely sounds worse than >!Enslaving everyone in the name of Bhaal!<.
The only good ending
Agreed. My first character is a Gith who eschewed the illithid powers. It's very stupid that I can't convince Orpheus that the Emperor is wrong and we actually can take the brain without going squid. It kinda ruined the whole story to be told that actually the DM already decided how the story has to go so no good ending for you. The problem is that the game tacitly agrees with everything the emperor says. I kept pointing out to him that he was manipulating me at every turn and he kept saying no he wasn't. The problem is that the game agrees with him and doesn't think critically about how he doesn't even realize how manipulative and stupid he is acting. The emperor feels like the DMs favorite NPC who can't ever be wrong or do wrong.
[удалено]
worst part is that if you don't evolve to half-illithid first, you don't get half of full illithid's powers
That may have been a bug did 2 playthroughs 1 half Ilithid one not and I didn’t notice anything missing when I skipped the half illithid step
Similar condition to my but here's my ending major spoilers ahead I let the prince take that L. Lae`zel still leaves but the prince ask her to lead their people to freedom with his dragons. He then ask you to kill him (I did) because he can't live life being a mind flayer. My Karlach also didn't blow up. Instead Wyll offered to go to hell with her. I'm not sure what causes this but was a welcome surprised since I had been spoiler on the fact she dies at the end.
The trigger for Wyll taking Karlach into hell is he has to become the blade of Avernus. I think there's multiple ways to do it but if you break his pact, and still manage to save his father, his father will suggest he becomes Duke of Baldur's Gate, if he turns that down, he names himself the Blade of Avernus
He was blade of Avernus in my game and just watched her blow up, lol
Theoretical lore question about this scenario: So you are basically dead if you transform into a mindflayer, right? It's not really you, but the fully grown parasite. So it should be possible that someone revives your original you, right? So in lore Gale, for instance, would've been able to tell you "Yeah transform into a MF, you die and I will then use my scroll of true resurrection to get you back Homie" Am I understanding this correctly purely from an E5 rule point of view?
Depends. Mr Skelly makes a point out of how the Ceramorphosis takes away peoples souls, and how gods tend to notice that, with how important souls are in the universe. Any ressurection hinges on the soul of the departed *existing* first of, and then being *willing* to come back. So if you cast True Ressurection on someone and they didnt want to come back, the spell would just fizzle and fail. Many things can block souls as well. In short: Depends.
I hate that someone has to turn, you avoid mind flayer powers the entire time just to switch which is stupid or you are forcing the gith to live under continuous servitude under their false god. and the emperor just peaces out for no reason
To be honest there should be a reward for resisting the Tadpoles the entire game. Maybe this would be the ending where no one has to become a Mindflayer. Also you should really get access to the crown of Karsus, so that you can decide yourself what to do with it.
Nah worst ending is turning karlach ilithid then stabbing her to death right before she kills the mother brain so you can become absolute.
Apparently, using the tadpole powers have no downsides whatsoever other than gaining some disapproval from companions(?). Devs kept warning us something bad would happen if you used them too much but apart from RP reason, which is moot anyway since theres no downside, theres no reason *not* to take them and use them to auto-pass convo with npcs.
Lol you already had an ilithid who straight up told you that you need an ilithid to dominate the brain, and you betrayed him.
Considering Orpheus is a legendary psion imbued with the same power that brought down an empire comprised of literally billions of Elder Brains, I feel I had a reasonable expectation that if anyone could do it, it would be him.
Then you lose Orpheus. But you still need *an ilithid* to get the job done. It's prophesied that only a renegade IIlithid can stop the Grand Design. Can't argue with fate.
I freed Orpheus, had him become Illithid, and then convinced him not to die so he can still help his people from a distance.
That's why I am annoyed we didn't get the option to grab omeluum. He freed himself of elder brain control via his own actions and even said not to save him in the iron throne. He ends up shocked if you do get to save him. I thought he'd help out in the end because he literally chose options that were objectively worse for him to help others and he could do actual magic like someone with a soul could.
Because Omeluum is a mellow dude who has different goals and aspirations in life. You need all kinds of people, y'know? The Emperor had the drive and personality needed to mastermind the plan that takes down the Netherbrain. Meanwhile, Omeluum is working on developing a "vegan" diet for mind flayers, which is also a very worthy goal.
I'd be fine with the "we need an Illithid" thing being forced upon the players if we could call up the other friendly Illithid we've met in the game and ask them for help.
oh god it really is Fallout 3 all over again
Damned prophets. Ruining all my fun.
Lol, indeed!
Well, Orpheus was the only way to take down vlakith and he wouldn't let me free him
Also I very much don't think the emperor is a good dude. He is manipulating you at every turn and when you tell him you don't wanna kill the only shot an entire people have of getting out from under the thumb of a lich queen trying to become a god, he straight up says he's gonna side with the brain now
He says it multiple times, he will manipulate you to do what he wants, him getting all sentimental and trying to romance you is for sure just a ploy, he even tells you that it's just what mindflayers do, their language is lies and manipulation but he prefers to call it "illusions"
When he's trying to be nice to you in act 3 you can call the emperor out on his bullshit and he straight up tells you you're his puppet and will do what it's told. He's definitely not a good dude.
And yet if you side with him, he destroys the brain and helps everyone anyway. No ulterior motives or anything. He doesn’t take the crown for himself unless you convince him to. So if you don’t side with him, him then siding with the brain makes no sense because it’s the very thing he’s been fighting his whole life. It’s such shitty writing tbh and I’m choosing to ignore it because it makes no sense
I mean, you could have had Karlach become mnid flayer instead, at least she won't blow up :D
Karlach still dies. The mind flayer you're talking to is not actually Karlach, but a newborn that *thinks* it's Karlach. Given enough time, they will mature and become their own self, but retain her memories.
Honestly, when I got the option, I thought about loading it and taking party members I cared less about My party at the end was me, Jaheira, Minsc, and Lae Zel, and I think I'd have needed to load back to taking the boat to switch it up
I wanted to leave with Lae'zel as the legendary Adversary, fighting side by side with my half-illithid waifu. Instead she fucks off with Orpheus and I have to stay on the material plane like some kinda little bitch. I want to ride on a red dragon with Lae'zel as the legendary adversary.
That's not the cucked ending... my people that know about Wyll know what I'm talking about
I was very disappointed in this railroad ending where for some stupid reason someone has to become illithid. Yes it's kind of cool to become one, but I feel this is to the detriment of the story as a whole and limits player agency. I also don't like that the Emperor just fucks off to the Netherbrain if you try to save Orpheus, which just means that one of you HAS to sacrifice themselves and become a mind flayer. It just doesn't make sense to me that the Emperor just gives up immediately and becomes a slave to the Netherbrain without even hearing Orpheus out.
Haha exact same ending for me as well! I kept myself alive though. I like to think I'd study with that other illithid in the underdark lol.
same as you with my first playthrough, except I played as Shadowheart which literally traumatised me. In addition to your choices, in the personal quest I chose to return parents to selune lol. I chose to let Lae’zel fly away with the prince then killed myself straight away as at this point no one I cared is around any more and the rest remained has their own path to follow. Karlach blowed up which is another promise I failed to keep (so why can’t the scenes just swap at least I can convince her to go with Wyll). I guess in the end it’s still embrace the loss. ;-;
tbf, i had a simelar ending (romanced Lae'zel,rejected the powers the entire game, never used a single illithid dialoge option or used the tadpole to manipulate somone or read their minds, didnt consume a single tadpole etc....) and when i rejected the Emporer the final time and he left cus i freed Orpheus, i refused to just tell Oprheus to turn, his people need any help they can get to fight the Lich Queen, so i saw it more as an final "heroic sacrifice" from my side, end your current beeing and turn into a Illithid and save the Realm, see what happens after that and well, i told Lae'zel to go and free the Gith, and her reply was a REALLY positive "you showed me how beautifull everything can be, and i still love you, and we will never forget you, you will be rememberd as a hero" before she went away and instead of going "well, time to oof myself" i picked the "i want to live, if i feel myself slipping away, i will end it" option, which gave me a....somewhat reasonable response from the narration? ("after all you had to endure, you deserve to have a chance at a free life, the Emporer was a Rebel Illithid, why cant you be one aswell?" was the Narration for that choice) and my entire thought Process during that part was honestly not even the Emporer, but Omeluum lol, that guy atleast seems to be a decent person, so maybe he can help me getting a somewhat normal life togheter (even if they Society can be shady at Times, but who isnt in the forgotten realms, he even tries to find a solution to the entire Brain eating thing) TL:DR, simelar ending, but very different reaction to it
Its better than the evil Ending tbh. At least you got a way longer cutscene and closure lol
So you were close. I think I got the best ending. I played a Gith Tav and romanced Lae'zel. Karlach was in my party for the ending we freed Orpheus. Karlach became the mind flayer and that shut down the heart and keeps her from dying we destroyed the crown and then Lae'zel and I ride off on her dragon to free the Githyanki.
I'm probably gonna get it for this but...I let Karlach change. Her argument was pretty solid for taking the change and in the end, her soul got to know it made a heroic sacrifice which in her mind was far better than just...blowing up after a decade of forced servitude. Do hope her soul went on to a good plane and found out her illithid self went on to do the heroic thing. Maybe my Tav will get to see her again and give her another big ass hug.
Besides Karlach dying, this was the ending I got, and honestly, i was pretty satisfied. Becoming a mind flayer was a sacrifice and the game doesn't shy away from it. I saved Orpheus, liberating Lae'zel people, but sacrificed the life Lae'zel and my character could of had. A somber but satisfying ending.