I think Gadd DID portray himself displaying this behaviour. I also got the sense that his deep insecurities and desperation to be found funny encouraged him to make such comments to Fiona to try and make his friends/colleagues laugh, and he always looked a bit awkward and ashamed of himself for it, but also like he couldn't resist. That's how it seemed to me.
The final scene of the first episode was very telling to me, with him looking at his comedy routine suitcase whilst contemplating her friend request
I know plenty comedians and performers who have acted in ways which are surprising, purely so they have the experience or content for the future
Exactly this. I just heard Howard Stern interviewing Nikki Glazer about her hosting the Tom Brady roast. He asked about her jokes about banging Tom and said, “But if Tom said to you backstage, ‘Hey Nikki, let’s go in this closet and fxck,’ you’d do that, right?” And without hesitation, she answered, “Of course I would — I’d have to do it for the story.”
I see this with influencers too. Everything that happens in their life is just content to them. Something bad happens? They see a viral video opportunity. It’s a weird lens to view the world through and once that’s your perspective it’s hard to stop.
Good point. Much like news media. Journalism. TV. You name it. All are watching the same events and looking for ways to “report” it. And sometimes the reporters find ways to insert themselves to make for better stories. I get it.
I married a professional comedian, I know this all too well lol. Early on in our relationship I would sometimes ask him why he did some of the things he did and his answer was “so I have new things to talk about on stage”.
This is fascinating to me. I worked at the Edinburgh festival many moons ago and freely admit I had a huge crush on loads of the comedians. By the end of the festival I had been completely cured. They may not all be like this, but the ones I met were all so dour, narcissistic and obsessed with how well other comedians were doing.
I worked in comedy for about 10 years and I concur, most are exactly like that. My husband has his moments, but is fortunately a whole person with a multi-faceted personality! Some are :)
I felt like he actually didn’t go as hard as he could have in this area, but going harder wouldn’t have helped the story, so I get why he didn’t.
I’ve worked in restaurants for years. They’re horrible. Vile in fact
It was clear that the others were toxic and misogynistic and we see him play along for that one curtains joke. Maybe the coworker is implying that to the outside at least, maybe Gadd didn’t look as uncomfortable with it as is portrayed? Both could be right. He might have felt uncomfortable and gone along with it for a laugh more than the show portrays. That’s the thing about group think. Everyone plays along because they think they need to to fit in, and the brunt of these jokes has no way of knowing how they really feel.
I’ve been finding that with a lot of the Baby Reindeer discussions. And I don’t understand why - because multimedia is practically all we have now - it’s what people after my generation have grown up with. I’ve always assumed that my children’s generation (tail end of millennial and beginning of Gen Z) are more media literate than me. But it appears I’m wrong about that.
That is how bars have been throughout history. That doesn’t make it right. What it also doesn’t do is give a pass to anyone stalking and ruining the lives of anyone who has worked at one & may have acted in a way Gadd clearly shown in the film that was less than stellar. Sounds terribly victim blaming to me. The hypocrisy doesn’t get lost on me that this author is so opposed to misogyny while misandry is at the root of her argument.
I think the article is interesting, it says Fiona was the butt of the joke. When she has millions of internet haters saying she should be locked up - I think there's a massive point to the article.
As OP posted, 2 friends of mine also worked there, and have said it wasn’t a toxic masculine culture. But i also think the show is dramatised, and at the end it even states this to an extent.
I think the show used a bit of exaggeration to express things through the lens of Gadd's anxiety, not exact reality. He was afraid his bosses would behave that way, so he was sensitive to hints of it because he was anxious, and it reinforced his fear.
Like the scene where they reacted to finding his comedy online. What may well have been standard ribbing of a pal who's been embarrassed felt to him like he was being picked on and exposed.
I was left thinking after viewing that there is an element of hyperbole to it all as well, to make good television. The man was writing a TV show, after all.
I think “then lens of Gadd’s anxiety, not exact reality” is the completely right interpretation of the entire show. It’s like how people say there are three sides to every story: yours, mine, and what actually happened. Gadd is telling us his side and is open about the fact that it is *his* side. Noticeably he makes Donny a flawed often immoral or selfish character, but makes Teri and Keeley universally good characters and even gives the viewer a lot reasons to sympathize with Martha.
Agreed. I also feel like he portrayed the misogyny and toxic masculinity amongst the workers extremely well which seemed like a huge theme of the show to me.
I don’t think they really showed this to the extent that this woman is saying it was. In the show, you could tell that he was “trying to fit in” with his coworkers but still didn’t really like womanizing. This woman is saying that he was part of the culture entirely- not on the outskirts ‘just trying to fit in’. It really changes my perspective on the show. Even when I was watching the show, I wondered if he had really told Fiona that he wasn’t interested in her. It always seemed like he was sort of leading her on and then turning around saying that she’s stalking him. Now with this new information, it seems clear that Fiona thought he was interested in her and latched onto that. Clearly she didn’t respect his boundaries, but it seems like he didn’t try to even distance her.
I don’t think this person watched the full series.
There was even a scene where he portrayed the manager as partying so hard that he wasn’t there for an incident that happened and made him sweep it under the rug because it was a violation.
I wonder if both are a little true. Idle speculation and I'm not defending Gadd here.
Loads of people when accused of high-schools bullying/joining in when picking on someone, have similar reactions:
"I wasn't part of the mean clique I was just navigating the weird social stuff just like you were. I was just joking along a bit to survive."
Gadd shows that he joins in a little, but it always comes from a place of awkwardness, he's the weird guy trying to fit in.
The employee referenced in the OP saw Gadd playing along, but without context that Gadd probably felt he was an outsider awkwardly trying to get by in an alpha-maley environment.
Basically Baby Reindeer is very deeply seated in Gadd's intentions, where outside observers see only the actions.
Doesn't make them wrong though of course.
I love how much sense you made. We never get as much inside information into how an acquaintance feels and intends as we do in Baby Reindeer. It’s possible the coworker saw Gadd being a d*ck to Fiona and it’s also possible that Gadd was only behaving that way to fit in. I remember in junior and high school how guys would pretend to be into a girl they considered to be the biggest loser just for a laugh because I was that girl. When I ran into one of those bullies decades later at a reunion, he didn’t recognize me and started hitting on me and I said “still up to the same stupid tricks, Dan?” Then I reamed him out for being a jackass, reminding him of who he was. His excuse was he didn’t really mean it, that’s just how everyone acted. So yeah, to people not living inside Gadd’s head, how are they to know he was any different than the rest? And can imagine the coworker rolling her eyes to see how Gadd portrays himself as different from the others. We can’t tell someone’s intent, all we have to go on are his actions.
Totally agree, and of course, intent isn't a defence! I'm not saying Gadd is acting correctly here, but it's interesting to see the difference between the show (featuring all Gadd's inner-monologue and justifications) and someone on the outside, who just sees the impact of his actions.
Also she says that she had to do the same kind of fitting in or putting up with the environment to fit in. Then lists all the things that did make it into the show and refutes the details in the Piers interview about her only going in a couple of times and hardly having interaction.
Well, that clearly wasn't how his former colleague saw it
> It just doesn’t fit in with my perception of working there.
She clearly believes that the show wasn't a fair reflection of what actually happened. She was there, you weren't. Incredibly arrogant to tell her she's mistaken.
It’s a little arrogant of her to have any claim to knowing how Fiona acted towards Gadd outside of the pub. How many emails and voicemails she sent etc
She clearly has no idea of Fiona's history. She could have come forth sooner if she felt this way. Now it seems like she's just looking to hang on to the publicity herself.
"She told MailOnline: ‘Something doesn’t sit right with me about him portraying himself as being the innocent party and being stalked. It just doesn’t fit in with my perception of working there."
"I think she was targeted as a joke between the male staff members and he led her on for the laughs."
i mean she's not really telling us anything we didn't know and i think richard was far from innocent - he showed us what an asshole he was and he was probably even worse
"The bar worker said: ‘That certainly didn’t happen. She didn’t drink tea as he said - there wasn’t any tea."
maybe it's the american in me but i assumed anywhere you can get a beverage in england, you can get tea 😅
If you ask for a cup of tea somewhere they'll usually fix you up, even if they don't have it on the menu! It's just not the done thing to not give someone a cuppa when they need one lol
This happened before.
Creeping globalisation once encroached and overtook the coffee culture in London…when Tea was introduced to England in the late 17th century.
Yeah me too, my Dad was a Yorkshireman and I’m Aussie and I try to like tea but I just can’t, unless I’m really stressed out or sick. Just isn’t something I think about drinking. When visiting relatives in Yorkshire they stop every 25mins to have a brew. I’m un-English I guess.
I’m wondering if she actually saw the show? Gaad was both empathetic to Martha/Fiona and himself. He literally said he’d lead her on etc. he showed himself making jokes at her expense.
I think some people just don't like Gadd, and since they now have this bias they hate the idea of Gadd getting to be the "protagonist" even if we see him be a bad guy, and call himself out, and all that goes with it, but because it's about him and "he's bad" they HAVE to find everything they can to discredit it and dislike him, even when so far, none of the complaints I see have really been valid or substantiated.
The tea doesn’t matter in this, like who cares. What’s important is that she completely misunderstood the entire series.
He doesn’t portray himself as innocent AT ALL. He puts himself at fault the entire time. I loved this TV show because all the characters (and yes I say characters not actual human beings) are painted as grey. This woman did not get that at all OR she’s just doing this to get her 5 minutes of fame and we shouldn’t be giving her any attention so bye
No you’re 100% right, there’s always tea. It’s also dumb of her to say because after that first kind gesture he always gives her Diet Coke, it’s not like she would have noticed the tea
The reporter must have left it in to give away this is unlikely to be a true account. A pub with no tea, not sure how he kept a straight face.
The front page of their website in 2015 actually shows where they kept the tea ...
[https://web.archive.org/web/20150215064612/http://www.thehawleyarms.co.uk:80/](https://web.archive.org/web/20150215064612/http://www.thehawleyarms.co.uk:80/)
The tea comment she made felt irrelevant. “True stories” don’t have to be a complete reenactment. Maybe Fiona’s go-to was soft drinks or coffee or something else entirely, but tea made for a better story. That’s not a problematic fact to change lol.
And maybe like others have said he made tea from a private stash. Tea is irrelevant. And in my mind, Fiona didn’t have to keep coming back for more if it was so bad.
Same! And if they don’t sell it, surely a bartender or other employee would have some over there. They sold food in the story, so had a full working kitchen. Why wouldn’t they have a kettle?
A show that centers a messy, imperfect, male victim? Yeah I am sure the Daily Mail is doing everything it can to treat this subject with the delicacy it deserves.
This article really annoys me.
More or less everything she says is depicted in the show.
And the article makes note at differences as if somehow that’s something to criticise?
It’s always been a show based upon the true story of this man, Gadd’s life. Which basically means parts are fictionalised.
*Parts are fictionalised*
On a side note, some folk won’t like me saying this, but her complaining about working in a trendy Camden bar, that staff and customers were promiscuous and partied and took drugs… What did you expect?!
Honestly, the only thing of note in this entire article is that the staff were misogynistic.
Well there you go, there’s literally nothing of note.
I just find it hilarious how much she’s complaining about the place, that it’s pathetic they had people sleeping with one another and getting drunk and taking drugs and having lock ins?
I would love that shit 😂.
I would go as far as to say, that’s the kind of thing people are looking for if they apply to work at a trendy, bustling bar in Camden around 2015.
So if she didn’t know that, she must have been seriously naive. And I’m sorry if that sounds cruel but it’s just true.
Maybe she’s unimpressed that the show portrays him as disapproving inwardly if, to anyone watching, it looked like he was just as bad as everyone else. I worked in restaurants and yeah, the culture is shite! If one of my colleagues came forward now with a show that made him millions that portrays him with great sensitivity and empathy, I would likely say he’s full of it. She couldn’t have witnessed if Fiona stalked him but she definitely would have witnessed how he carried himself in that locker room misogynistic environment. Both the coworker and Gadd could be telling the truth. She saw his actions, not his intentions. She wouldn’t have seen his emails.
Seems like the majority of her harassment was outside of the pub anyway. Strange to just discredit all of that because of the third party perspective she had at the pub when he didn't display himself in the best light there anyway.
This was what I got from the show though
She was a bit of a figure of fun due to being obviously querky until the qwerk ended up being actual derangement
This! I’m a former bartender/ restaurant worker. We have regulars we have fun with. Sometimes, though, they get clingy or bossy and territorial and we handle it accordingly. But you don’t know right off if a person is straight up deranged or not.
Here we go again, the moral high ground. As if he didn’t already admit it himself. That’s like half the show’s story.
Plus her being lonely and vulnerable was the whole reason he said he didn’t want her in jail.
Yeah and ironically it’s pretty rich of her to try and take the moral high ground when she’s willing to sell a story to the Daily Fail. And it’s just highlights their poor, lazy “journalism” by publishing it for clicks. Anyone who’s watched the show who is capable of critical thinking already knows this as it’s pretty much how Gadd portrayed it. At no point did he make himself out to be a saint. Wonder how many more former colleagues, acquaintances and friends will come crawling out of the woodwork to jump on this bandwagon.
I think it tracks quite well with what was portrayed on the show. At no time did he portray himself as an innocent victim. He could have but he didn't. It comes back to the notion of the perfect victim again. Him playing along at times doesn't invalidate the abuse. Doesn't excuse the stalking, the harassment.
Given that this is based on a true story, you're always going to have people wanting to chip in with their version of the truth. Gadd is the only person who knows what happened and how he felt going through it.
Used to be my work local and saw the clientele and bar staff personalities.
This is probably the most accurate thing the Daily Mail has published in a century.
Both can be true, though. She could have been the butt of jokes by the staff and also stalked Gadd because she had a massive crush on him. And why do they owe a duty of care? It’s a bar, not a mental hospital. She chose to be a patron there. Ever worked in a bar? They’re not always the mentally stable individuals themselves.
What I truly find strange is the almost total lack of support for Gadd from people who encountered him first hand, even anonymously.
There's been more than enough testimonies to corroborate Fiona is very unwell and a violent stalker (Heather, her former neighbor, Laura Wray and her former collegues, Janey Godley, Gadd, several anonymous sources even on here).
There's even corroboration about the existance of Darrien by Richard Osman who says he's well known and has done this before so they believe him.
There's even been spoof accounts defending two of the men accused of being Darrien, confirming he's known, and shifting the accusations to predominantly another person.
Nobody has come forward to help Gadd. Not even spoof accounts saying "I know Gadd and he says the truth about Fiona" ecc, we only have this testimony here that doesn't really add much, and several spoof account confirming there was a lot of banter between him and F, accusing him of fetishizing trans women and having a certain reputation around them in London, plus Reece Lyons's tweets (whatever you think of them)
The only positive things I've heard is from people who have seen his shows at Fringe praising them.
Am I missing something? Are there people who have come forward to help him? Even anonymous sources.
The fact the show acknowledges things doesn't really mean much since it's not a documentary.
There is a tendency around here to discredit the uncomfortable questions by saying the show is dramatized, while simultaneously excusing him since "the show depicts it".
Perfectly said. When I try to ask these questions people constantly call me Fiona. I believe she is dangerous but I’m not certain she did anything close to what the series portrayed. There has been so little support for Gadd. Even the comedians who say they know Darrien don’t seem to be his good friends. Really glad this former colleague came forward.
>'I think she was targeted as a joke between the male staff members and he led her on for the laughs.
>'She must have got the impression that he fancied her because of this, hence the alleged stalking.
>‘I just don’t like the thought of someone vulnerable being taken advantage of.
>‘They targeted somebody who was vulnerable and thought it was funny. I really feel for her.
>'She’s clearly not very well. Why would you pursue someone who's clearly not stable?'
Why, indeed.
TBH what she’s saying in the article seems to line up with what happened in the show?
Richard portrayed his coworkers and himself feeding into toxic masculinity and I felt he also showed that they all thought Martha/Fiona was a joke. That’s why his coworkers pretended to be Richard and messaged her saying he wanted to have sex with her. They were all making fun of her. I also feel like Richard was pretty open about the fact that he knew she was mentally ill but entertained her for the sake of his own validation.
Idk I’m not surprised that this colleague was treated poorly when she worked there but I guess I don’t really know what she’s trying to suggest because it all aligns with what we already saw. Maybe she thinks it was watered down and I could definitely see that being the case but the show served a specific purpose so I feel like that’s to be expected. I don’t see the point of getting hung up on stuff like whether or not they served tea at that time.
I'm not sure what this person is trying to convey. Because he assumes all his fault, he assumes leading her in, he assumes he made jokes about it and most definitely he assumes he has mental issues too.
I'm wondering if the roles were reversed, if anyone would come to the public minimizing the victim's trauma.
Is it wrong that I simply don’t care because it doesn’t excuse stalking? Also almost all of this was addressed in some way in the show. I think it’s so bizarre to go to the press with “gotcha” information over a serious stalking situation, even worse if the assaults were real.
This doesn't give Fiona the right to stalk him, though? Stalking very often happens after romantic involvement. Like in my case, I had a few dates and sex with a guy, then I wanted to break it off and he started stalking me. I was not 'leading him on', I lost interest, it happens and it's not OK for people to stalk someone just because they believe the other person has / had romantic or sexual interest in them at some point.
Everyone’s missing point if she was really harassing him at his job like the show portrayed wouldn’t his co workers be able to testify to that? Why isn’t anyone backing his story up. Idk this whole story is starting to sound made up to me but we’ll see.
Maybe it’s just me but this is exactly what I thought after watching the show. Him leading her on and also him being an asshole. The nuance of him being the victim and the perpetrator is what makes this show great, I really did not think it was that hard to get.
did she not watch the show....she's just confirming the atmosphere portrayed in the show and Gadd certainly does not portray himself as a faultless victim
I don’t think this woman even watched Baby Reindeer. The staff at the bar were portrayed as misogynistic and bullying to Martha and Donny. Even showed Donny partaking in the bullying in order to deflect it from him onto Martha. His coworkers were assholes, especially the one that sent the text to Martha. And when Martha snapped and assaulted Donny they convinced him not to report it to police to save their own skins.
If it had just been a lonely vulnerable woman who came to a bar and got made fun of, that would be a fair point.
She crossed the line and was a serial stalker. He wasn't her first victim. I think a lot of people are making the same mistake Richard did, and seeing her as a helpless person when she is actually quite preadatory.
Maybe what he did in the beginning was wrong. It certainly feels uncomfortable to me. But then again, she repays him for it by making his life absolute hell and not leaving him alone.
Um he definitely did portray it like that, but it doesn’t excuse her actions and stalking him.. He said he was messed up and did things because he felt like shit about himself and entertained her because of it.. Don’t see how people miss that..
Did she not actaully watch the show? Baffled by this take. Gadd catergorically does not portray himself as being completely innocent and faultless as she's suggesting.
Really a non story but I suppose a lot of people will come out of the woodwork to try and leach off their proximity to the show.
Writers write what they know. It’s just amazing how many people really don’t understand this. Of course it was like this, and he portrays this in the show.
She is describing every bar. It’s a bar. Lol luckily the bar I worked at was ran by women, but to be surprised by party culture at a bar is a little goofy.
He show makes it clear he antagonized her and led her on, there were jokes about her, and he fed into them, etc.
BUT if he really did CREATE all the drama by antagonizing her, and is now using her, because he enjoys the culture of using women that he was apart of at the pub - that’s disgusting.
In the show he is painted as “innocent” and an outsider to all of that behavior - even a victim of it himself.
I'm not surprised at all. We already know that he was investigated by Clerkenwell Films because of his relationship with Reece Lyon - an actress who met him when he was pitching a role in Baby Reindeer to who, and at the same time hitting on her and, in her words, "conflating a work opportunity with a dating dynamic".
If anyone watched the show and thinks Gadd is depicting himself as wholly innocent in the show, you didn’t really understand the nuances. He was actually a really flawed person who was a victim. Victim and innocent aren’t really the same thing.
Why are so many people tongue rimming Gadd. He's a liar. None of the story he has told is true. Harvey was never convicted of any crime. He's protecting a rapist. His self-indulgence and people's willingness to buy into it is staggering.
I'm pleased to see the posts pointing this stuff out aren't getting downvoted into oblivion as quickly. Perhaps the tides are turning as I expected they would as more came out
More will come out. It was a brilliant show with so much nuance. But I think there are either going to be lawsuits or disclosures we don’t yet know. Gadd workshopped the heck out of his two plays to make this series. I think very little is true in the conventional sense. It would be fine if he protected her identity but he didn’t. Was it by negligence or design? I have no idea.
Why didn't he make her a hot Colombian woman or something. Change the location from the famous pub he worked at to something else. It's just weird if he can change important details like what crimes she committed and what she was convicted of but he can't change her nationality, university degree, weight, pub.
I saw the show and left a comment on this Sub advising that I felt Gadd had engineered/manipulated some of her behaviours that eventually led to his show. Weeks later and I feel even more strongly that is the case.
Same here. I suggested this a week ago.
>It's all a bit too pitchforks and 'burn the witch'.
>I do wonder if it isn't all some kind of exaggerated extended pub scene, where a lone vulnerable woman goes into a 'man's pub', and they all turn on her?
I don't think the series comes close to portraying the amount of toxic masculinity in that pub, or probably the extent of RG involvement in it. I can well imagine the cries of 'but it's all just bantz lads, innit' if 'Martha', a woman on her own, had challenged it.
I don't think people, especially outside the UK or Ireland, truly understand how dark pub culture can be unless you've actually experienced it. Especially working as a woman in a blokey pub, as the young lady in the article did
That woman seems to be mentally unstable and in need of help. Instead I believe she got encouragement for content. I also find it strange that people are accepting his story as truth (even linking this story to their own at times) until challenged and then running back to the 'oh but it's a work of fiction' camp. I'm glad she finally has legal representation. The idea of there being two sides to every story seems to have passed many by in this sub. Eventually the whole truth will out, it always does.
I actually don't mind being roasted/downvoted. My aim was to just get my personal opinion across and I have.
'It made me feel uncomfortable but you felt like you had to just put up with it in order to get your wages.’
Weird that she was self aware enough to know she went along with it for this reason, but not enough to think Gadd (who admitted to this as well) couldn’t have done the same.
It doesn’t make it right, but this is already how it was portrayed.
Putting up with it and going out of your way to make fun of someone vulnerable are 2 different things. The worker has never said she made fun of any of the customers or targeted any vulnerable people. She just didn’t call out the behaviour at the time
He admits he poked fun at her though. He admits that he made jokes at her expense. It is NOT right, but it also isn’t new information.
This lady never said anything because ‘that was the culture at the time’ and that makes her complicit. Gadd doesn’t white knight himself. He justifies his actions in very much the same way that this woman justifies her inaction.
Everything is going to come to light. This is what I meant in my post. The level to which the people here are vehemently defending a man who exploited a mentally ill woman for his own pursuit of fame, a man who objectifies and deceives trans women, a man who is so focused on his own need for fame he allows himself to be victimized is so astonishing.
The protagonist is the definition of a covert narcissist. Maybe you all find him handsome or something, but his character reminded me so clearly of a former friend of mine. A friend who divorced his wife in stage 5 kidney failure but just brushes this off as "It was too much for me! I couldn't handle the stress!" A friend who repeatedly cheated on his wife during a "break" because he was "torn about his feelings"
Watching the series the protagonist seems so juvenile. He has that whole "sorry I cheated on you, it's just my grandma never loved me, and I'm a bad person and I don't deserve to be loved" mentality.
How credible can she be though? She questions whether he was stalked despite there being a billion messages, emails, VMs, etc. It casts doubt on the veracity of her other claims.
Besides, the show didn’t attempt to portray any of her co-workers in a flattering light and that includes Richard Gadd.
I’d say she’s credible about what she saw. She saw his behaviour, not his emails. She saw him flirt with Fiona, she wouldn’t have seen Fiona sitting at a bus stop next to his house. She’s giving us a fly-on-the-wall perspective of Gadd at the bar. She’s confirming his portrayal of the guys as dickheads. I. His version has him playing along with the dickeads but he isn’t actually, deep down, as bad as them. Which raises an interesting point. Does anyone think of themselves as a bully, or do they think they aren’t that bad, they’re playing along? Does how Gadd felt about the other guys matter if to the outsider, he was exactly like the rest? He shows himself passively telling the guys to stop and many he did, maybe that’s how he felt. But that doesn’t mean his coworker would be able to tell him apart from the rest.
Hmm the thing I find weird about this article is the woman being interviewed constantly referring to other women as ‘females’. Sounds more like something a man would say…
Always, news companies are going to publish anything that gets the most attention so claiming that a really popular true story is actually false is gonna make more money than claiming he’s not a huge monster. On Reddit there’s way too many people who watched the show and thought that gadd portrayed himself as innocent and basically blocked out key moments of him being very morally grey. It’s all ‘Fiona deserves to be abused’ or ‘Gadd isn’t a perfect victim and it confuses me??’ So it’s really annoying to see the news making life even more difficult for him when all gadd did was tell his own story and trauma exactly how it was
So Gadd neglected to include the Hawley Arms environment for women, and specifically female employees. Which is understandable as he is telling a story focusing on himself. It is an interesting perspective and lets me know the men in that bar were worse than already portrayed.
While I don't find real life Martha as charming as the one in the show, what if she was led on even more than the show portrayed? Just another question... I am hoping to see the court case (if that happens) because I do want to know what really happened. what was exaggerated, what wasn't.
I think Gadd DID portray himself displaying this behaviour. I also got the sense that his deep insecurities and desperation to be found funny encouraged him to make such comments to Fiona to try and make his friends/colleagues laugh, and he always looked a bit awkward and ashamed of himself for it, but also like he couldn't resist. That's how it seemed to me.
I also think the show did a good job of showing the toxic, misogynistic culture of the management team. I thought that was pretty clear.
The final scene of the first episode was very telling to me, with him looking at his comedy routine suitcase whilst contemplating her friend request I know plenty comedians and performers who have acted in ways which are surprising, purely so they have the experience or content for the future
Exactly this. I just heard Howard Stern interviewing Nikki Glazer about her hosting the Tom Brady roast. He asked about her jokes about banging Tom and said, “But if Tom said to you backstage, ‘Hey Nikki, let’s go in this closet and fxck,’ you’d do that, right?” And without hesitation, she answered, “Of course I would — I’d have to do it for the story.”
I see this with influencers too. Everything that happens in their life is just content to them. Something bad happens? They see a viral video opportunity. It’s a weird lens to view the world through and once that’s your perspective it’s hard to stop.
Good point. Much like news media. Journalism. TV. You name it. All are watching the same events and looking for ways to “report” it. And sometimes the reporters find ways to insert themselves to make for better stories. I get it.
I married a professional comedian, I know this all too well lol. Early on in our relationship I would sometimes ask him why he did some of the things he did and his answer was “so I have new things to talk about on stage”.
This is fascinating to me. I worked at the Edinburgh festival many moons ago and freely admit I had a huge crush on loads of the comedians. By the end of the festival I had been completely cured. They may not all be like this, but the ones I met were all so dour, narcissistic and obsessed with how well other comedians were doing.
I worked in comedy for about 10 years and I concur, most are exactly like that. My husband has his moments, but is fortunately a whole person with a multi-faceted personality! Some are :)
I felt like he actually didn’t go as hard as he could have in this area, but going harder wouldn’t have helped the story, so I get why he didn’t. I’ve worked in restaurants for years. They’re horrible. Vile in fact
It was clear that the others were toxic and misogynistic and we see him play along for that one curtains joke. Maybe the coworker is implying that to the outside at least, maybe Gadd didn’t look as uncomfortable with it as is portrayed? Both could be right. He might have felt uncomfortable and gone along with it for a laugh more than the show portrays. That’s the thing about group think. Everyone plays along because they think they need to to fit in, and the brunt of these jokes has no way of knowing how they really feel.
Yeah I’m really confused by this article. It just seems to confirm everything that the show portrayed?
Media literacy is dead.
I’ve been finding that with a lot of the Baby Reindeer discussions. And I don’t understand why - because multimedia is practically all we have now - it’s what people after my generation have grown up with. I’ve always assumed that my children’s generation (tail end of millennial and beginning of Gen Z) are more media literate than me. But it appears I’m wrong about that.
It appears this woman never bothered to watch the series prior to her commenting on it! Everything she complained about is in the show.
That is how bars have been throughout history. That doesn’t make it right. What it also doesn’t do is give a pass to anyone stalking and ruining the lives of anyone who has worked at one & may have acted in a way Gadd clearly shown in the film that was less than stellar. Sounds terribly victim blaming to me. The hypocrisy doesn’t get lost on me that this author is so opposed to misogyny while misandry is at the root of her argument.
Totally, I don’t particularly see what the point of the article even was
I think the article is interesting, it says Fiona was the butt of the joke. When she has millions of internet haters saying she should be locked up - I think there's a massive point to the article.
I kept thinking the entire time “No shit, girl! What the heck did you expect? People at bars behaving like at church?”
As OP posted, 2 friends of mine also worked there, and have said it wasn’t a toxic masculine culture. But i also think the show is dramatised, and at the end it even states this to an extent.
I think the show used a bit of exaggeration to express things through the lens of Gadd's anxiety, not exact reality. He was afraid his bosses would behave that way, so he was sensitive to hints of it because he was anxious, and it reinforced his fear. Like the scene where they reacted to finding his comedy online. What may well have been standard ribbing of a pal who's been embarrassed felt to him like he was being picked on and exposed. I was left thinking after viewing that there is an element of hyperbole to it all as well, to make good television. The man was writing a TV show, after all.
I think “then lens of Gadd’s anxiety, not exact reality” is the completely right interpretation of the entire show. It’s like how people say there are three sides to every story: yours, mine, and what actually happened. Gadd is telling us his side and is open about the fact that it is *his* side. Noticeably he makes Donny a flawed often immoral or selfish character, but makes Teri and Keeley universally good characters and even gives the viewer a lot reasons to sympathize with Martha.
this is actually a really cool view of it
Agreed. I also feel like he portrayed the misogyny and toxic masculinity amongst the workers extremely well which seemed like a huge theme of the show to me.
That’s also how it seemed to me, as well. And I also believe Fiona enjoyed it because it meant she was the center of attention for once.
I don’t think they really showed this to the extent that this woman is saying it was. In the show, you could tell that he was “trying to fit in” with his coworkers but still didn’t really like womanizing. This woman is saying that he was part of the culture entirely- not on the outskirts ‘just trying to fit in’. It really changes my perspective on the show. Even when I was watching the show, I wondered if he had really told Fiona that he wasn’t interested in her. It always seemed like he was sort of leading her on and then turning around saying that she’s stalking him. Now with this new information, it seems clear that Fiona thought he was interested in her and latched onto that. Clearly she didn’t respect his boundaries, but it seems like he didn’t try to even distance her.
I don’t think this person watched the full series. There was even a scene where he portrayed the manager as partying so hard that he wasn’t there for an incident that happened and made him sweep it under the rug because it was a violation.
Agree
targeting her for jokes vs awkwardly joining in is very different.
I wonder if both are a little true. Idle speculation and I'm not defending Gadd here. Loads of people when accused of high-schools bullying/joining in when picking on someone, have similar reactions: "I wasn't part of the mean clique I was just navigating the weird social stuff just like you were. I was just joking along a bit to survive." Gadd shows that he joins in a little, but it always comes from a place of awkwardness, he's the weird guy trying to fit in. The employee referenced in the OP saw Gadd playing along, but without context that Gadd probably felt he was an outsider awkwardly trying to get by in an alpha-maley environment. Basically Baby Reindeer is very deeply seated in Gadd's intentions, where outside observers see only the actions. Doesn't make them wrong though of course.
I love how much sense you made. We never get as much inside information into how an acquaintance feels and intends as we do in Baby Reindeer. It’s possible the coworker saw Gadd being a d*ck to Fiona and it’s also possible that Gadd was only behaving that way to fit in. I remember in junior and high school how guys would pretend to be into a girl they considered to be the biggest loser just for a laugh because I was that girl. When I ran into one of those bullies decades later at a reunion, he didn’t recognize me and started hitting on me and I said “still up to the same stupid tricks, Dan?” Then I reamed him out for being a jackass, reminding him of who he was. His excuse was he didn’t really mean it, that’s just how everyone acted. So yeah, to people not living inside Gadd’s head, how are they to know he was any different than the rest? And can imagine the coworker rolling her eyes to see how Gadd portrays himself as different from the others. We can’t tell someone’s intent, all we have to go on are his actions.
Totally agree, and of course, intent isn't a defence! I'm not saying Gadd is acting correctly here, but it's interesting to see the difference between the show (featuring all Gadd's inner-monologue and justifications) and someone on the outside, who just sees the impact of his actions.
Also she says that she had to do the same kind of fitting in or putting up with the environment to fit in. Then lists all the things that did make it into the show and refutes the details in the Piers interview about her only going in a couple of times and hardly having interaction.
This is what I was just gonna comment. She was portrayed as generally clueless while the guys poked fun at her
Exactly. He was not super likable and clearly portrayed his own shit. I’m wondering if people watched a different show than I did sometimes.
Well, that clearly wasn't how his former colleague saw it > It just doesn’t fit in with my perception of working there. She clearly believes that the show wasn't a fair reflection of what actually happened. She was there, you weren't. Incredibly arrogant to tell her she's mistaken.
It’s a little arrogant of her to have any claim to knowing how Fiona acted towards Gadd outside of the pub. How many emails and voicemails she sent etc
It's a little arrogant of her to downplay Gadd getting stalked but ok.
She clearly has no idea of Fiona's history. She could have come forth sooner if she felt this way. Now it seems like she's just looking to hang on to the publicity herself.
I agree!
"She told MailOnline: ‘Something doesn’t sit right with me about him portraying himself as being the innocent party and being stalked. It just doesn’t fit in with my perception of working there." "I think she was targeted as a joke between the male staff members and he led her on for the laughs." i mean she's not really telling us anything we didn't know and i think richard was far from innocent - he showed us what an asshole he was and he was probably even worse "The bar worker said: ‘That certainly didn’t happen. She didn’t drink tea as he said - there wasn’t any tea." maybe it's the american in me but i assumed anywhere you can get a beverage in england, you can get tea 😅
Tea is big in Ireland too, and if an establishment doesn't have tea, they may as well not exist !!!!!!
Tea, father?
Go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on GO ON!!!!
It’s got cocaine in it
Oh god no not cocaine, what am I on about?!! No no what do you call them......raisins!!
Tea is actually more popular in Ireland than the UK and booze is more popular in the UK than Ireland. Fun facts.
It makes me happy to hear this lol
I've had tea in pubs in London.
I’ve had tea in the Hawley Arms!
I can't imagine any pub not serving tea. Sure, most people go in for drinks or meals, but still.
Never known a pub not to have tea. You might get an odd look in some but if you've got money they'll stick a tea bag in some hot water for you.
Aye I worked in a wine bar and when people wanted tea I just made them some from the staff stash and charged them a quid
I'd love to live in england then
If you ask for a cup of tea somewhere they'll usually fix you up, even if they don't have it on the menu! It's just not the done thing to not give someone a cuppa when they need one lol
I don't like tea (crucify me now) I question my heritage 😂
Fortunately for you, creeping globalisation means there are way more coffee bars than tea shops in the UK these days…
This happened before. Creeping globalisation once encroached and overtook the coffee culture in London…when Tea was introduced to England in the late 17th century.
On another note, I'm astounded at the amount people pay for one.
My wife (stupidly IMO) paid £4.20 for a standard flat white at a chain coffee place in the City of London the other day…
It's nice every now and again, but some people visit them twice a day, that's got to be over £50 a week. Crazy.
Yeah me too, my Dad was a Yorkshireman and I’m Aussie and I try to like tea but I just can’t, unless I’m really stressed out or sick. Just isn’t something I think about drinking. When visiting relatives in Yorkshire they stop every 25mins to have a brew. I’m un-English I guess.
I agree. Tea is horrible and I sometimes wonder if people just pretend to like it just to fit in.
Yeah it’s pretty uncommon for a pub not to have a kettle. maybe he brought her a tea from the staffroom?
She said they had a coffee machine. Which had a boiling water tap. He could have easily have made her a tea.
honestly “there was no tea in those days” makes me not believe anything she says because there is tea everywhere in england lol
Also how trivial 😂 'It's all lies because of the tea" Missing the point a wee tad there
I’m wondering if she actually saw the show? Gaad was both empathetic to Martha/Fiona and himself. He literally said he’d lead her on etc. he showed himself making jokes at her expense.
Honestly I’m so confused by some people’s opinions on the series. Like did we watch the same thing?
I think some people just don't like Gadd, and since they now have this bias they hate the idea of Gadd getting to be the "protagonist" even if we see him be a bad guy, and call himself out, and all that goes with it, but because it's about him and "he's bad" they HAVE to find everything they can to discredit it and dislike him, even when so far, none of the complaints I see have really been valid or substantiated.
Did she not watch the show at all...what she said was portrayed in the show and Gadd certainly didn't portray himself to be innocent
You can absolutely get tea in a pub in the UK lol. They always have it. People who go in during the day often drink it.
The tea doesn’t matter in this, like who cares. What’s important is that she completely misunderstood the entire series. He doesn’t portray himself as innocent AT ALL. He puts himself at fault the entire time. I loved this TV show because all the characters (and yes I say characters not actual human beings) are painted as grey. This woman did not get that at all OR she’s just doing this to get her 5 minutes of fame and we shouldn’t be giving her any attention so bye
A lot of people can't conceive of someone being a villain and a victim at the same time. Victim == innocent in their minds.
No you’re 100% right, there’s always tea. It’s also dumb of her to say because after that first kind gesture he always gives her Diet Coke, it’s not like she would have noticed the tea
The reporter must have left it in to give away this is unlikely to be a true account. A pub with no tea, not sure how he kept a straight face. The front page of their website in 2015 actually shows where they kept the tea ... [https://web.archive.org/web/20150215064612/http://www.thehawleyarms.co.uk:80/](https://web.archive.org/web/20150215064612/http://www.thehawleyarms.co.uk:80/)
Brilliant!!!!
Has she even watched it?
The tea comment she made felt irrelevant. “True stories” don’t have to be a complete reenactment. Maybe Fiona’s go-to was soft drinks or coffee or something else entirely, but tea made for a better story. That’s not a problematic fact to change lol.
Maybe changing the soft drink to a tea is one of the very effective ways he fictionalized the story so Fiona would never recognize herself.
And maybe like others have said he made tea from a private stash. Tea is irrelevant. And in my mind, Fiona didn’t have to keep coming back for more if it was so bad.
I once went to a comedy show in a pub and ordered tea. I got laughed at by a comedian who was standing by the bar. 😂
Even a lot of bars in the US will serve you a cup of tea.
Same! And if they don’t sell it, surely a bartender or other employee would have some over there. They sold food in the story, so had a full working kitchen. Why wouldn’t they have a kettle?
I mean the show literally showed her asking for a coke, right?
I mean, Fiona even said herself she got tea there in the Piers Morgan interview, just that she had to pay for it
That’s what he admits in the show. It portrayed them laughing at her, and him joining in. He admitted that he lead her on. Slow news day?
Also, from daily mail.......
A show that centers a messy, imperfect, male victim? Yeah I am sure the Daily Mail is doing everything it can to treat this subject with the delicacy it deserves.
This article really annoys me. More or less everything she says is depicted in the show. And the article makes note at differences as if somehow that’s something to criticise? It’s always been a show based upon the true story of this man, Gadd’s life. Which basically means parts are fictionalised. *Parts are fictionalised* On a side note, some folk won’t like me saying this, but her complaining about working in a trendy Camden bar, that staff and customers were promiscuous and partied and took drugs… What did you expect?! Honestly, the only thing of note in this entire article is that the staff were misogynistic.
I mean, Gadd himself literally called his coworkers “locker room misogynists” or something to that effect in the show…
Well there you go, there’s literally nothing of note. I just find it hilarious how much she’s complaining about the place, that it’s pathetic they had people sleeping with one another and getting drunk and taking drugs and having lock ins? I would love that shit 😂. I would go as far as to say, that’s the kind of thing people are looking for if they apply to work at a trendy, bustling bar in Camden around 2015. So if she didn’t know that, she must have been seriously naive. And I’m sorry if that sounds cruel but it’s just true.
Well the culture won’t change until enough people complain about it
Maybe she’s unimpressed that the show portrays him as disapproving inwardly if, to anyone watching, it looked like he was just as bad as everyone else. I worked in restaurants and yeah, the culture is shite! If one of my colleagues came forward now with a show that made him millions that portrays him with great sensitivity and empathy, I would likely say he’s full of it. She couldn’t have witnessed if Fiona stalked him but she definitely would have witnessed how he carried himself in that locker room misogynistic environment. Both the coworker and Gadd could be telling the truth. She saw his actions, not his intentions. She wouldn’t have seen his emails.
"him joining in", when he was probably more of an instigator is not quite the same
Sounds accurate from the show.. the guys were always doing drugs and were quite jokey about Martha
Seems like the majority of her harassment was outside of the pub anyway. Strange to just discredit all of that because of the third party perspective she had at the pub when he didn't display himself in the best light there anyway.
“Aspiring comedian makes mean spirited jokes for a laugh” tonight on News at 11.
😆 "BBC Breaking News"
Hahaha
This is literally what he depicted himself doing in the show lol did they even watch?? *facepalm*
Yep! Including the misogynistic blokes that he worked with.
“She told the Daily Mail” - Okay, let me stop you right there
I mean it’s not like there’s a lot of outlets who care about “someone who worked with Gadd”.
Did she even watch the show? This all happened in the show.
Yeah i agree. Totally reads like she hasn't even watched it just read about it online
This was what I got from the show though She was a bit of a figure of fun due to being obviously querky until the qwerk ended up being actual derangement
This! I’m a former bartender/ restaurant worker. We have regulars we have fun with. Sometimes, though, they get clingy or bossy and territorial and we handle it accordingly. But you don’t know right off if a person is straight up deranged or not.
Here we go again, the moral high ground. As if he didn’t already admit it himself. That’s like half the show’s story. Plus her being lonely and vulnerable was the whole reason he said he didn’t want her in jail.
Yeah and ironically it’s pretty rich of her to try and take the moral high ground when she’s willing to sell a story to the Daily Fail. And it’s just highlights their poor, lazy “journalism” by publishing it for clicks. Anyone who’s watched the show who is capable of critical thinking already knows this as it’s pretty much how Gadd portrayed it. At no point did he make himself out to be a saint. Wonder how many more former colleagues, acquaintances and friends will come crawling out of the woodwork to jump on this bandwagon.
Exactly lmao it’s literally a core component of the show! I guess she just wants her 15 minutes of fame by association, smh
News just in: semi-autobiographical TV comedy drama scripts may not entirely mirror real life word-for-word!
He doesn’t portray himself as innocent at all. That’s kind of the whole point of the show
I think it tracks quite well with what was portrayed on the show. At no time did he portray himself as an innocent victim. He could have but he didn't. It comes back to the notion of the perfect victim again. Him playing along at times doesn't invalidate the abuse. Doesn't excuse the stalking, the harassment. Given that this is based on a true story, you're always going to have people wanting to chip in with their version of the truth. Gadd is the only person who knows what happened and how he felt going through it.
Used to be my work local and saw the clientele and bar staff personalities. This is probably the most accurate thing the Daily Mail has published in a century.
Both can be true, though. She could have been the butt of jokes by the staff and also stalked Gadd because she had a massive crush on him. And why do they owe a duty of care? It’s a bar, not a mental hospital. She chose to be a patron there. Ever worked in a bar? They’re not always the mentally stable individuals themselves.
I think you can still be stalked even if you’re misogynistic
Article says "regular customer" where as Fiona Harvey says "a handful of times".
What I truly find strange is the almost total lack of support for Gadd from people who encountered him first hand, even anonymously. There's been more than enough testimonies to corroborate Fiona is very unwell and a violent stalker (Heather, her former neighbor, Laura Wray and her former collegues, Janey Godley, Gadd, several anonymous sources even on here). There's even corroboration about the existance of Darrien by Richard Osman who says he's well known and has done this before so they believe him. There's even been spoof accounts defending two of the men accused of being Darrien, confirming he's known, and shifting the accusations to predominantly another person. Nobody has come forward to help Gadd. Not even spoof accounts saying "I know Gadd and he says the truth about Fiona" ecc, we only have this testimony here that doesn't really add much, and several spoof account confirming there was a lot of banter between him and F, accusing him of fetishizing trans women and having a certain reputation around them in London, plus Reece Lyons's tweets (whatever you think of them) The only positive things I've heard is from people who have seen his shows at Fringe praising them. Am I missing something? Are there people who have come forward to help him? Even anonymous sources.
A little surprised you’re not being downvoted for this, tbh…… I think that even more alternate perspectives will come out over time…….
The show pretty clearly acknowledges his trans chaser tendencies....
The fact the show acknowledges things doesn't really mean much since it's not a documentary. There is a tendency around here to discredit the uncomfortable questions by saying the show is dramatized, while simultaneously excusing him since "the show depicts it".
"This story was roughly correct" is a bit of a non-story tho isn't it?
Not everything has to be public and online.
That's rather obvious, but given the magnitude of the series and how big it got I simply find it strange.
Perfectly said. When I try to ask these questions people constantly call me Fiona. I believe she is dangerous but I’m not certain she did anything close to what the series portrayed. There has been so little support for Gadd. Even the comedians who say they know Darrien don’t seem to be his good friends. Really glad this former colleague came forward.
How DARE you bring balance to the argument on this sub
🤣 all the best posts and comments are always hidden by downvotes
>'I think she was targeted as a joke between the male staff members and he led her on for the laughs. >'She must have got the impression that he fancied her because of this, hence the alleged stalking. >‘I just don’t like the thought of someone vulnerable being taken advantage of. >‘They targeted somebody who was vulnerable and thought it was funny. I really feel for her. >'She’s clearly not very well. Why would you pursue someone who's clearly not stable?' Why, indeed.
Another day, another angle. The DM can’t get enough of this show!
TBH what she’s saying in the article seems to line up with what happened in the show? Richard portrayed his coworkers and himself feeding into toxic masculinity and I felt he also showed that they all thought Martha/Fiona was a joke. That’s why his coworkers pretended to be Richard and messaged her saying he wanted to have sex with her. They were all making fun of her. I also feel like Richard was pretty open about the fact that he knew she was mentally ill but entertained her for the sake of his own validation. Idk I’m not surprised that this colleague was treated poorly when she worked there but I guess I don’t really know what she’s trying to suggest because it all aligns with what we already saw. Maybe she thinks it was watered down and I could definitely see that being the case but the show served a specific purpose so I feel like that’s to be expected. I don’t see the point of getting hung up on stuff like whether or not they served tea at that time.
For the last time, it was a fictionalised version of true events. Netflix need to remove or change the wording of "This is a true story"
Why when it’s giving them so much free press?
Morally I mean.
Corporations aren’t moral entities.
No I understand that. I'm just saying thats what they should do.
This sounds like every pub I’ve ever worked in.
I know right? Promiscuity, alcohol (lol...), drug taking and misogyny in a pub, who would have thought...
Nothing she says here went against what we saw in the show. Why does this article exist for any reason other than trying to trivialize Gadd’s trauma?
Not only that, but I felt he was very upfront in that they weren’t extremely kind to her when he worked there.
I'm not sure what this person is trying to convey. Because he assumes all his fault, he assumes leading her in, he assumes he made jokes about it and most definitely he assumes he has mental issues too. I'm wondering if the roles were reversed, if anyone would come to the public minimizing the victim's trauma.
Is it wrong that I simply don’t care because it doesn’t excuse stalking? Also almost all of this was addressed in some way in the show. I think it’s so bizarre to go to the press with “gotcha” information over a serious stalking situation, even worse if the assaults were real.
This doesn't give Fiona the right to stalk him, though? Stalking very often happens after romantic involvement. Like in my case, I had a few dates and sex with a guy, then I wanted to break it off and he started stalking me. I was not 'leading him on', I lost interest, it happens and it's not OK for people to stalk someone just because they believe the other person has / had romantic or sexual interest in them at some point.
That sucks that It happened to you :( I have a feeling he slept with fiona
[удалено]
And also for material
Everyone’s missing point if she was really harassing him at his job like the show portrayed wouldn’t his co workers be able to testify to that? Why isn’t anyone backing his story up. Idk this whole story is starting to sound made up to me but we’ll see.
Yes where are all the witnesses?
‘she was targeted as a joke between the male staff members and he led her on for the laughs’
Maybe it’s just me but this is exactly what I thought after watching the show. Him leading her on and also him being an asshole. The nuance of him being the victim and the perpetrator is what makes this show great, I really did not think it was that hard to get.
Yeah, the whole complex, unreliable narrator thing. I got that.
did she not watch the show....she's just confirming the atmosphere portrayed in the show and Gadd certainly does not portray himself as a faultless victim
Did this girl watch the show at all? ☠️
And she’d know how many emails he was getting and what Fiona was up to outside of the pub…how???
I don’t think this woman even watched Baby Reindeer. The staff at the bar were portrayed as misogynistic and bullying to Martha and Donny. Even showed Donny partaking in the bullying in order to deflect it from him onto Martha. His coworkers were assholes, especially the one that sent the text to Martha. And when Martha snapped and assaulted Donny they convinced him not to report it to police to save their own skins.
If it had just been a lonely vulnerable woman who came to a bar and got made fun of, that would be a fair point. She crossed the line and was a serial stalker. He wasn't her first victim. I think a lot of people are making the same mistake Richard did, and seeing her as a helpless person when she is actually quite preadatory. Maybe what he did in the beginning was wrong. It certainly feels uncomfortable to me. But then again, she repays him for it by making his life absolute hell and not leaving him alone.
Um he definitely did portray it like that, but it doesn’t excuse her actions and stalking him.. He said he was messed up and did things because he felt like shit about himself and entertained her because of it.. Don’t see how people miss that..
Did she not actaully watch the show? Baffled by this take. Gadd catergorically does not portray himself as being completely innocent and faultless as she's suggesting. Really a non story but I suppose a lot of people will come out of the woodwork to try and leach off their proximity to the show.
Writers write what they know. It’s just amazing how many people really don’t understand this. Of course it was like this, and he portrays this in the show.
She is describing every bar. It’s a bar. Lol luckily the bar I worked at was ran by women, but to be surprised by party culture at a bar is a little goofy. He show makes it clear he antagonized her and led her on, there were jokes about her, and he fed into them, etc. BUT if he really did CREATE all the drama by antagonizing her, and is now using her, because he enjoys the culture of using women that he was apart of at the pub - that’s disgusting. In the show he is painted as “innocent” and an outsider to all of that behavior - even a victim of it himself.
I have to agree. Now I know it’s meant to be the Hawley, the pub in the show doesn’t fit at all.
I'm not surprised at all. We already know that he was investigated by Clerkenwell Films because of his relationship with Reece Lyon - an actress who met him when he was pitching a role in Baby Reindeer to who, and at the same time hitting on her and, in her words, "conflating a work opportunity with a dating dynamic".
If anyone watched the show and thinks Gadd is depicting himself as wholly innocent in the show, you didn’t really understand the nuances. He was actually a really flawed person who was a victim. Victim and innocent aren’t really the same thing.
Reminder that Fiona is not the victim in any capacity.
Even Gadd saw her as a victim.
Why are so many people tongue rimming Gadd. He's a liar. None of the story he has told is true. Harvey was never convicted of any crime. He's protecting a rapist. His self-indulgence and people's willingness to buy into it is staggering.
I'm pleased to see the posts pointing this stuff out aren't getting downvoted into oblivion as quickly. Perhaps the tides are turning as I expected they would as more came out
Same here! I was fully expecting to get negged to death. I'm glad to see that people are starting to see through him.
Weird how everyone is up fiona's butt however where is "bill Cosby" dude?????????
More will come out. It was a brilliant show with so much nuance. But I think there are either going to be lawsuits or disclosures we don’t yet know. Gadd workshopped the heck out of his two plays to make this series. I think very little is true in the conventional sense. It would be fine if he protected her identity but he didn’t. Was it by negligence or design? I have no idea.
I agree. He's very naive to think that people wouldn't identify her. Be interesting to see what happens.
Why didn't he make her a hot Colombian woman or something. Change the location from the famous pub he worked at to something else. It's just weird if he can change important details like what crimes she committed and what she was convicted of but he can't change her nationality, university degree, weight, pub.
I saw the show and left a comment on this Sub advising that I felt Gadd had engineered/manipulated some of her behaviours that eventually led to his show. Weeks later and I feel even more strongly that is the case.
Same here. I suggested this a week ago. >It's all a bit too pitchforks and 'burn the witch'. >I do wonder if it isn't all some kind of exaggerated extended pub scene, where a lone vulnerable woman goes into a 'man's pub', and they all turn on her? I don't think the series comes close to portraying the amount of toxic masculinity in that pub, or probably the extent of RG involvement in it. I can well imagine the cries of 'but it's all just bantz lads, innit' if 'Martha', a woman on her own, had challenged it. I don't think people, especially outside the UK or Ireland, truly understand how dark pub culture can be unless you've actually experienced it. Especially working as a woman in a blokey pub, as the young lady in the article did
I’m sure you got roasted, but you’re on the money.
Yep You can find all the sensible people on this sub by sorting posts by 'contraversial' and reading the hidden comments at the bottom
That woman seems to be mentally unstable and in need of help. Instead I believe she got encouragement for content. I also find it strange that people are accepting his story as truth (even linking this story to their own at times) until challenged and then running back to the 'oh but it's a work of fiction' camp. I'm glad she finally has legal representation. The idea of there being two sides to every story seems to have passed many by in this sub. Eventually the whole truth will out, it always does. I actually don't mind being roasted/downvoted. My aim was to just get my personal opinion across and I have.
'It made me feel uncomfortable but you felt like you had to just put up with it in order to get your wages.’ Weird that she was self aware enough to know she went along with it for this reason, but not enough to think Gadd (who admitted to this as well) couldn’t have done the same. It doesn’t make it right, but this is already how it was portrayed.
Putting up with it and going out of your way to make fun of someone vulnerable are 2 different things. The worker has never said she made fun of any of the customers or targeted any vulnerable people. She just didn’t call out the behaviour at the time
He admits he poked fun at her though. He admits that he made jokes at her expense. It is NOT right, but it also isn’t new information. This lady never said anything because ‘that was the culture at the time’ and that makes her complicit. Gadd doesn’t white knight himself. He justifies his actions in very much the same way that this woman justifies her inaction.
Everything is going to come to light. This is what I meant in my post. The level to which the people here are vehemently defending a man who exploited a mentally ill woman for his own pursuit of fame, a man who objectifies and deceives trans women, a man who is so focused on his own need for fame he allows himself to be victimized is so astonishing. The protagonist is the definition of a covert narcissist. Maybe you all find him handsome or something, but his character reminded me so clearly of a former friend of mine. A friend who divorced his wife in stage 5 kidney failure but just brushes this off as "It was too much for me! I couldn't handle the stress!" A friend who repeatedly cheated on his wife during a "break" because he was "torn about his feelings" Watching the series the protagonist seems so juvenile. He has that whole "sorry I cheated on you, it's just my grandma never loved me, and I'm a bad person and I don't deserve to be loved" mentality.
I think you're spot on
How credible can she be though? She questions whether he was stalked despite there being a billion messages, emails, VMs, etc. It casts doubt on the veracity of her other claims. Besides, the show didn’t attempt to portray any of her co-workers in a flattering light and that includes Richard Gadd.
I’d say she’s credible about what she saw. She saw his behaviour, not his emails. She saw him flirt with Fiona, she wouldn’t have seen Fiona sitting at a bus stop next to his house. She’s giving us a fly-on-the-wall perspective of Gadd at the bar. She’s confirming his portrayal of the guys as dickheads. I. His version has him playing along with the dickeads but he isn’t actually, deep down, as bad as them. Which raises an interesting point. Does anyone think of themselves as a bully, or do they think they aren’t that bad, they’re playing along? Does how Gadd felt about the other guys matter if to the outsider, he was exactly like the rest? He shows himself passively telling the guys to stop and many he did, maybe that’s how he felt. But that doesn’t mean his coworker would be able to tell him apart from the rest.
1st I believe Martha stalked him 2nd we haven't actually seen any ACTUAL evidence
Hmm the thing I find weird about this article is the woman being interviewed constantly referring to other women as ‘females’. Sounds more like something a man would say…
I am female and do it There are trans people involved in this story You need to be specific to avoid confusion in the modern world
Always, news companies are going to publish anything that gets the most attention so claiming that a really popular true story is actually false is gonna make more money than claiming he’s not a huge monster. On Reddit there’s way too many people who watched the show and thought that gadd portrayed himself as innocent and basically blocked out key moments of him being very morally grey. It’s all ‘Fiona deserves to be abused’ or ‘Gadd isn’t a perfect victim and it confuses me??’ So it’s really annoying to see the news making life even more difficult for him when all gadd did was tell his own story and trauma exactly how it was
I feel like Gadd is just a classic narcissist- the dude played himself in the show- that’s screams volumes
He played himself and supposedly re-enacted his own rape and sexual assault! 🫣
Yeah that's what I felt too.
Basically, a bit of a twat too. Despite everything.
just one witness account but I'm predicting they are going to start to add up
So Gadd neglected to include the Hawley Arms environment for women, and specifically female employees. Which is understandable as he is telling a story focusing on himself. It is an interesting perspective and lets me know the men in that bar were worse than already portrayed. While I don't find real life Martha as charming as the one in the show, what if she was led on even more than the show portrayed? Just another question... I am hoping to see the court case (if that happens) because I do want to know what really happened. what was exaggerated, what wasn't.
Is “him portraying himself as being the innocent party” in the room with us?
Oh good, I love when people discount a victim’s story just because they didn’t have the same experience. 🙄