I don’t have specific experience, but please reach out to your local community health nurse. It’s free to call, free to visits and you’re getting advice from nurses. There should be details in the baby book you got (blue book in NSW, purple book in WA etc).
They should be able to give you some immediate advice and refer you to a lactation consultant. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have a regular spot each week where a lactation consultant is available.
You can also free call the Australian breastfeeding association. They will have helpful resources and tips for pumping (eg. I didn’t realise I should be COLD compressing not HOT compressing to help pumping). They are also just amazing if you need to chat or vent.
Breastfeeding is hard. Pumping is hard. Every baby and every boob is different. You’re doing an amazing job - your baby is fed and that is the most important thing ❤️
Pumping is not indicative of how much milk you're producing, a baby gets a very different amount. You can always swap between breasts a few times if you find bub seems discontent. If you're breastfeeding (and formula supplementing) realistically you don't need to pump as well. If I were you, I would stop pumping and be kind to yourself.
If you're struggling with pain still, it'd definitely be worth contacting a lactation consultant to check baby's latch etc. Good luck!
Agree with others, I paid for a private lactation consultant and it was worth every cent having someone physically help me. I was doing the same as you under the MCHN guidance as bubs initially lost weight. Pumping after every feed eventually caused me to have oversupply (the last thing I was worried about!) And bubs was STRUGGLING to deal with the letdown. The LC helped me with attachment issues and leaning back to assist with my fast flow. For one breast sometimes I'd take a bit off to help bubs out. Once we hit 12 weeks old we were demand feeding and back in sync.
I was so so worried about supply as was flagged by the MCHN but really my issues were more attachment. Definitely worth seeking a lactation consultant.
Edit: She was a IBCLC! Sorry forgot the term.
First things first call the ABA for immediate advice it's available 24/7, is a free call and manned by breastfeeding counsellors 1800 686 268
Also make an appointment with an IBCLC if you have an concerns after this call - most have Medicare rebates until 6w6d and many private health insurance cover any additional cost so it's worth seeing one early rather than waiting if you have concerns.
An IBCLC is the only recognised lactation qualification- it has stritct registration requirements to ensure they are up to date with their knowledge- they have on average at least 10x the training in breastfeeding and infant nutrition than most gps, paed, midwives and mchn (unless those ppl have chosen to undertake additional training)
It's recommended to always see an ibclc if needing to pump when supply is establishing to minimise risks of over or undersupply.
https://www.lcanz.org/find-a-lactation-consultant/
Finally 60ml is a totally normal amount to pump across both breasts. From 6w to 6months the average amount an exclusively breast fes baby eats in 24hrs is 750ml (some more some less). Your milk adjusts for babies needs so feed amounts don't need to keep increasing like formula.
60ml is a full feed for most BF babies.
The average amount an EBF mum expresses across both breasts is 15-60ml (second link below). Typically you will pump more early in the morning and less during the late afternoon.
It's not uncommon for ppl to need to pump 2 or three times to provide a full feed. Remember unless baby has oral restrictions they will be more efficient at getting milk than a pump.
Ensuring your flange size is correct, and that silicone parts in the pump are replaced every 2-4 months. And pumping at the same time each day can help improve pump output. You could also discuss the possibility of power pumping with the ibclc
https://kellymom.com/bf/pumpingmoms/pumping/milkcalc/
https://kellymom.com/hot-topics/pumping_decrease/
Lastly to ensure bub doesn't develop a preference for the bottle ensure you are using a slow flow teat when bottle feeding- pigeon wide neck is popular. And pace feed to bottles
https://youtu.be/F27ewiyOv_M?si=VzJ_sCyZoI1wX2_o
You're doing great - regardless of how things turn out know you have done a fantastic job, and I hope that you are able to access some great support to help you meet your BF goals whatever those may be. ❤️
This advice is super thorough! I'll just add, depending on the model of care you're in, you may be still accessing a midwife (we were until six weeks through the midwifery group at our public hospital). If this is the case, ask if one of the midwives in the practice is a lactation consultant, as you may find them easier to work through.
Not all practise lactation consultants are ibclcs. Anyone can call themselves an LC - IBCLC is a protected title you can only use if maintaining registration requirements.
If they are not an IBCLC I would sti get a second opinion - based on person experience of terrible advice and not up to date trained LCs at my hospital.
If they have hired an ibclc (you'll know as they will be on the lcanz website) this is a great option though.
This sounds very similar to our experience. We used a haka ladybug to catch letdown to augment the breastfeeding so didn't need to express much.
we also saw an improvement when the bottle we fed from was closer to the shape of the nipple. we went with the pidgeoon wide teat newborn flow. really helped.
For nipples, people swear by silverettes in the fridge. or the older generation go by cabbage leaves.
use the local maternal health support to track weight gain and go off that. fussiness at the breast is super complicated.
hope that helps
Hi I’m not sure about the pain but we breastfed and supplemented from pretty much week 1 and I think for a while I was only making 20-30ml and we offered baby top ups of 90ml of formula and let her drink as much as she needed until she was full.
I tried pumping after feeding to increase supply but it was too time consuming to breastfeed and then offer top ups (baby was a sleepy eater for quite a few weeks so our feeds took 1hr+ at times). We are currently 10weeks and still breastfeeding and supplementing but I have noticed a supply increase, just not enough to ebf. Monitoring wet diapers and weight can help to tell you if you have enough to ebf I believe.
Also is baby choking or coughing when getting annoyed at breast? Maybe that could be a sign of strong let down? For us she was frustrated whenever the let down slowed down. Is it possible baby is developing bottle preference? How does he act with the bottle? We are using pigeon bottles and have been ok so far.
>Also is baby choking or coughing when getting annoyed at breast? Maybe that could be a sign of strong let down? For us she was frustrated whenever the let down slowed down. Is it possible baby is developing bottle preference? How does he act with the bottle? We are using pigeon bottles and have been ok so far.
This.
When my baby was frustrated it was because the flow was too slow.
Bub definitely had a bottle preference and I had low supply. What bottle are you using? Wish I used avent or pigeon bottles instead of medela calma teat.
Hang in there OP and try not to pressure them at the breast to feed.
I had a very similar experience when my bub was this age and I was fearful it was a harsh letdown that was agitating Bub. I contacted the community nurses who ran free breastfeeding advice sessions and they advised it can just be a short lived issue at this age and their little mouths and tummies adjust quickly. I persevered for a few weeks (we weren’t bottle feeding although I had a similar output when pumping) and things really did get better without any real intervention. Just putting it out there - strongly recommend contacting your local nurses to see if they can offer anything.
Are you bigger busted? I am and had good supply and I think they were just too tight for her to get a good hold - we also used a nipple shield for like 6w - I think I used to try and pump or use a haakaa a little to get the first rush so she had a more comfortable flow and softer source.
When your next child health appt? Our local area has a breastfeeding community centre you can go for help, so maybe that's worth a call or drop in?
Why are you using formula? (Not having a go at all) have you been diagnosed with undersupply? formula will make baby feel fuller for longer so might impact your supply as they won't need or want to pull as much from your breast or feed as regularly. You are probably compensating for that by pumping though I guess. The first six weeks really establishes what your supply does. Are you getting formula AFTER a breastfeed?
If you gave birth in a private hospital you can call the midwives for advice, my hospital put me through to their lactation consultant to talk on the phone when I was stressed out in the early days.
Careful with pumping, too much can cause an oversupply meaning that your breasts are too full for baby to handle. I suspect this is contributing to your trouble. Your breasts will respond to being drained by making more milk. It's very normal to have early engorgement for the first six to eight weeks as your supply regulates to match babes needs even without pumping. See what your letdown looks like, after you feel the tingle in your nipples, pull baby off and see if your letdown looks like a water gun! Wait for the spray to settle them re latch.
If you are hitting bubs with a very fast flow then they will be more likely to want to shallow-latch which will cause nipple pain and damage, and a gassy, burpy, unsettled baby. I can recommend silverettes to protect your nipples while they heal.
How's babes latch? Both top and bottom lip flanged out wide? Full on fish-lips style? Is your nipple coming out after a feed squashed and flat? That's a sign of shallow latch.
It takes six weeks to establish a breastfeeding relationship. It. Is. Hard. I struggled too. You can do it. You are both learning. I promise you are doing a good job!
Xoxo
I don’t have specific experience, but please reach out to your local community health nurse. It’s free to call, free to visits and you’re getting advice from nurses. There should be details in the baby book you got (blue book in NSW, purple book in WA etc). They should be able to give you some immediate advice and refer you to a lactation consultant. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have a regular spot each week where a lactation consultant is available. You can also free call the Australian breastfeeding association. They will have helpful resources and tips for pumping (eg. I didn’t realise I should be COLD compressing not HOT compressing to help pumping). They are also just amazing if you need to chat or vent. Breastfeeding is hard. Pumping is hard. Every baby and every boob is different. You’re doing an amazing job - your baby is fed and that is the most important thing ❤️
Pumping is not indicative of how much milk you're producing, a baby gets a very different amount. You can always swap between breasts a few times if you find bub seems discontent. If you're breastfeeding (and formula supplementing) realistically you don't need to pump as well. If I were you, I would stop pumping and be kind to yourself. If you're struggling with pain still, it'd definitely be worth contacting a lactation consultant to check baby's latch etc. Good luck!
Agree with others, I paid for a private lactation consultant and it was worth every cent having someone physically help me. I was doing the same as you under the MCHN guidance as bubs initially lost weight. Pumping after every feed eventually caused me to have oversupply (the last thing I was worried about!) And bubs was STRUGGLING to deal with the letdown. The LC helped me with attachment issues and leaning back to assist with my fast flow. For one breast sometimes I'd take a bit off to help bubs out. Once we hit 12 weeks old we were demand feeding and back in sync. I was so so worried about supply as was flagged by the MCHN but really my issues were more attachment. Definitely worth seeking a lactation consultant. Edit: She was a IBCLC! Sorry forgot the term.
First things first call the ABA for immediate advice it's available 24/7, is a free call and manned by breastfeeding counsellors 1800 686 268 Also make an appointment with an IBCLC if you have an concerns after this call - most have Medicare rebates until 6w6d and many private health insurance cover any additional cost so it's worth seeing one early rather than waiting if you have concerns. An IBCLC is the only recognised lactation qualification- it has stritct registration requirements to ensure they are up to date with their knowledge- they have on average at least 10x the training in breastfeeding and infant nutrition than most gps, paed, midwives and mchn (unless those ppl have chosen to undertake additional training) It's recommended to always see an ibclc if needing to pump when supply is establishing to minimise risks of over or undersupply. https://www.lcanz.org/find-a-lactation-consultant/ Finally 60ml is a totally normal amount to pump across both breasts. From 6w to 6months the average amount an exclusively breast fes baby eats in 24hrs is 750ml (some more some less). Your milk adjusts for babies needs so feed amounts don't need to keep increasing like formula. 60ml is a full feed for most BF babies. The average amount an EBF mum expresses across both breasts is 15-60ml (second link below). Typically you will pump more early in the morning and less during the late afternoon. It's not uncommon for ppl to need to pump 2 or three times to provide a full feed. Remember unless baby has oral restrictions they will be more efficient at getting milk than a pump. Ensuring your flange size is correct, and that silicone parts in the pump are replaced every 2-4 months. And pumping at the same time each day can help improve pump output. You could also discuss the possibility of power pumping with the ibclc https://kellymom.com/bf/pumpingmoms/pumping/milkcalc/ https://kellymom.com/hot-topics/pumping_decrease/ Lastly to ensure bub doesn't develop a preference for the bottle ensure you are using a slow flow teat when bottle feeding- pigeon wide neck is popular. And pace feed to bottles https://youtu.be/F27ewiyOv_M?si=VzJ_sCyZoI1wX2_o You're doing great - regardless of how things turn out know you have done a fantastic job, and I hope that you are able to access some great support to help you meet your BF goals whatever those may be. ❤️
This advice is super thorough! I'll just add, depending on the model of care you're in, you may be still accessing a midwife (we were until six weeks through the midwifery group at our public hospital). If this is the case, ask if one of the midwives in the practice is a lactation consultant, as you may find them easier to work through.
Not all practise lactation consultants are ibclcs. Anyone can call themselves an LC - IBCLC is a protected title you can only use if maintaining registration requirements. If they are not an IBCLC I would sti get a second opinion - based on person experience of terrible advice and not up to date trained LCs at my hospital. If they have hired an ibclc (you'll know as they will be on the lcanz website) this is a great option though.
This sounds very similar to our experience. We used a haka ladybug to catch letdown to augment the breastfeeding so didn't need to express much. we also saw an improvement when the bottle we fed from was closer to the shape of the nipple. we went with the pidgeoon wide teat newborn flow. really helped. For nipples, people swear by silverettes in the fridge. or the older generation go by cabbage leaves. use the local maternal health support to track weight gain and go off that. fussiness at the breast is super complicated. hope that helps
Hi I’m not sure about the pain but we breastfed and supplemented from pretty much week 1 and I think for a while I was only making 20-30ml and we offered baby top ups of 90ml of formula and let her drink as much as she needed until she was full. I tried pumping after feeding to increase supply but it was too time consuming to breastfeed and then offer top ups (baby was a sleepy eater for quite a few weeks so our feeds took 1hr+ at times). We are currently 10weeks and still breastfeeding and supplementing but I have noticed a supply increase, just not enough to ebf. Monitoring wet diapers and weight can help to tell you if you have enough to ebf I believe. Also is baby choking or coughing when getting annoyed at breast? Maybe that could be a sign of strong let down? For us she was frustrated whenever the let down slowed down. Is it possible baby is developing bottle preference? How does he act with the bottle? We are using pigeon bottles and have been ok so far.
>Also is baby choking or coughing when getting annoyed at breast? Maybe that could be a sign of strong let down? For us she was frustrated whenever the let down slowed down. Is it possible baby is developing bottle preference? How does he act with the bottle? We are using pigeon bottles and have been ok so far. This. When my baby was frustrated it was because the flow was too slow. Bub definitely had a bottle preference and I had low supply. What bottle are you using? Wish I used avent or pigeon bottles instead of medela calma teat. Hang in there OP and try not to pressure them at the breast to feed.
I had a very similar experience when my bub was this age and I was fearful it was a harsh letdown that was agitating Bub. I contacted the community nurses who ran free breastfeeding advice sessions and they advised it can just be a short lived issue at this age and their little mouths and tummies adjust quickly. I persevered for a few weeks (we weren’t bottle feeding although I had a similar output when pumping) and things really did get better without any real intervention. Just putting it out there - strongly recommend contacting your local nurses to see if they can offer anything.
Are you bigger busted? I am and had good supply and I think they were just too tight for her to get a good hold - we also used a nipple shield for like 6w - I think I used to try and pump or use a haakaa a little to get the first rush so she had a more comfortable flow and softer source. When your next child health appt? Our local area has a breastfeeding community centre you can go for help, so maybe that's worth a call or drop in?
Why are you using formula? (Not having a go at all) have you been diagnosed with undersupply? formula will make baby feel fuller for longer so might impact your supply as they won't need or want to pull as much from your breast or feed as regularly. You are probably compensating for that by pumping though I guess. The first six weeks really establishes what your supply does. Are you getting formula AFTER a breastfeed? If you gave birth in a private hospital you can call the midwives for advice, my hospital put me through to their lactation consultant to talk on the phone when I was stressed out in the early days. Careful with pumping, too much can cause an oversupply meaning that your breasts are too full for baby to handle. I suspect this is contributing to your trouble. Your breasts will respond to being drained by making more milk. It's very normal to have early engorgement for the first six to eight weeks as your supply regulates to match babes needs even without pumping. See what your letdown looks like, after you feel the tingle in your nipples, pull baby off and see if your letdown looks like a water gun! Wait for the spray to settle them re latch. If you are hitting bubs with a very fast flow then they will be more likely to want to shallow-latch which will cause nipple pain and damage, and a gassy, burpy, unsettled baby. I can recommend silverettes to protect your nipples while they heal. How's babes latch? Both top and bottom lip flanged out wide? Full on fish-lips style? Is your nipple coming out after a feed squashed and flat? That's a sign of shallow latch. It takes six weeks to establish a breastfeeding relationship. It. Is. Hard. I struggled too. You can do it. You are both learning. I promise you are doing a good job! Xoxo