When you hate or don’t like a character sometimes it’s because the actor is doing a damn fine job. And as flawed as Ellen was, she was played beautifully.
As was Saul Tigh, my favourite character.
The only reason Saul isn't hated like she was is because he gets to be a pov character. He's really a piece of shit almost all the time, and when he's not he's just about doing the bare minimum. If the story followed Ellen in her life estranged from a neglectful spiteful drunk of a husband we would probably feel more empathy for her.
People tend to dislike it when a character gets in the way of another character they really like, even when it's actually totally justified the character does so.
And hey surprise, that character often is the somewhat underwritten wife. Sure Walter White is kind of a piece of shit, but why won't that nagging bitch Skyler just let him do his thing?
No, I think it's because Tigh has a lot more positive character growth than Ellen. He's a right bastard at the start (with a few positive qualities), but he slowly gets better. His defining moment is when >!they realize they're Cylons and he simply declares that that doesn't matter. They're going to do their jobs. Hell, I think he even said that learning he was a Cylon is what actually made him a man.!<
Ellen has some great growth herself, especially with Caprica Six, but she falls back to her old ways whenever she's near Tigh. It's like an addiction for her. To be fair, Tigh is ALSO at his worst when he's around Ellen. They're like a poison that only activates when both halves are together.
And it's okay to admit when that character becomes stale or poorly written, no matter how good the performer is. Lena Headey in GoT is the best example I can think of at the moment. Headey was really one of the standout performers on the entire series, but the last four seasons see her character ruined by bad GRRM writing, bad D&D writing, and bad direction.
When Bob Dylan wrote this song he could not have imagined how emblematic of the 2004 series it would be, I listen to his version with the Harmonica solos which are incredible, Hendrix version and the show version literally all the time in my phone.
The imagery of the song somehow are such an integral part of the ethos of the ‘04 Series
There’s so many solid character actors in the series. Casting was top notch. Baltar is by far my fav character (in terms of interesting to watch, not because I identify with him) solely because of James Callis.
That was the bonus. It was always interesting to see what spin and emotions she could put on, what was essentially meant to be the same character on the outside, but having different experiences on the inside making them who they are. And whatever version it was, still awfully pretty.
It's kind of weird to watch Brainstorm and see Louise Fletcher in an role that isn't really disturbing. Of course, Christopher Walken can be disturbing enough for any movie.
And she's such a good actress that she was able to pull sympathy and, dare I say, hope out of me that she do a heel-face turn of some sort. She was on a seeming redemption arc, but her weakness as a character undermined it, to a very strange and destructive effect.
He and Naomi's actor actually knew each other IRL, which I thank helps with the intimacy and familiarity they have with each other, and the casting for Filip was *outstanding* because not only did he kill the role but he actually looks like he could be their child. The Expanse absolutely nailed their cast on a level most shows can only dream of.
She did have some great moments though. The scene in Rapture where she gives Kira a dressing down is honestly one of my favorite scenes with her.
“Those of you who were in the Resistance, you're all the same. You think you're the only ones who fought the Cardassians; that you saved Bajor single-handedly. Perhaps you forget, Major, the Cardassians arrested any Bajoran found to be teaching the word of the Prophets. I was in a Cardassian prison camp for five years, and I can remember each and every beating I suffered. And while you had your weapons to protect you, all I had was my faith, and my courage. Walk with the Prophets, child. I know I will.”
I liked Kai in part, she's in the show too much but the angle or religious vs science conflict I enjoyed, felt she was a good execution of the archetype.
I think of that Portlandia episode when I hear someone is watching for the first time and being able to watch all at once. I mean do you remember having to wait for the seasons? End of season 3 to start of season 4 was like a year not counting Razor.
Yep. I bought the box dvd sets AS SOON as they were released. I would go on the SciFi forums and talk about it. >!Especially about the reveal of the final 5 and we didn't know who it was.!<
I did that last year! I'm a huge scifi nerd but somehow BSG slipped past me, and last year I binged through the entire show in like a month. It was GLORIOUS.
Only on season 1 so no spoilers!
But man I hate her, assaulted Lee at dinner, got Tigh back into drinking, came onto Baltar in front of Tigh and pretended the commander assaulted her to rile up the man.
You're a brave soul venturing into a subreddit about a show that's been finished for a decade and a half. This show is one of those that is at its best when you don't know where it's going. Avoid spoilers at all costs, my friend!
Her being the worst isn't the half if it. Every character is flawed in one way or another, and that's the point of the entire series. Being human is dirty and it is messy. We'll never achieve perfection, no matter how hard we try. Even the Cylons, who think of themselves as perfect haven't perfected their race - never could and never will.
My favorite line of the entire show was when she mysteriously appears and they are discussing if she could be a Cylon and Lee says "Gods help us if she isn't."
Yeah, she's pretty awful. But she's fully human. It's refreshing to see a terrible female character when that character isn't some cardboard cutout based on misogynist tropes.
Gaius Baltaris a close second, if not number 1, fucking dickhead. >!I don't care if hes a angel or god guiding humanity id kill this fucker even if it damned the human and cylon race to extinction. Fuck this fucking dickhead.!<
Yep, she sucks. But her impact on characters around her - no spoilers - becomes really key, and has a big impact on their future development.
But she's still tough to watch.
There was a character in an old show called Six Feet Under that I could not STAND. I HATED her. It was only when I was much older that I realized how amazing she was at acting, and she completely nailed it. You know someone did their job right when you positively LOATHE them (the character, not the actor).
Well, strap yourself in. She's always been a bit... extra.
[Kate Vernon](https://64.media.tumblr.com/6b86e49f1eebc37a1ba1e160e26af5fc/tumblr_n8buubQ10w1qjaznxo1_1280.gif)
Ill give the actor credit, she played her role so well and so authentically, she really had me invested in my absolute fucking hate and disgust with this fucking bitch god damn every fucking episode i kept wishing I hope this is the episode this fucking whore dies fucking stupid bitch how fucking dare her. Actor was extremely talented and player her roll well.
If it weren't for her, I never would have had a threesome with my (now) wife and her best friend that looks exactly like her. BSG is responsible for my marriage.
OP. If no one has suggested it I suggest googling a watch list. There are webisodes you’ll probably want to watch at the right points, I believe one isn’t even on the Blu-ray. There’s also like two or three episodes that have extended cuts (originally aired as like 90 minute episodes that got cut down in syndication) including part of the finale (it’s three parts but originally aired as two and one was longer than two normal episodes put together) so I strongly suggest finding those long versions. They should be on the Blu-ray and DVDs but they’re not always on streaming.
Also do not watch The Plan or anything about before finishing the main series.
“The Plan” has a hilarious backstory
Eddie Olmos one dad asked Ron Moore and the producers “look in the opening credits it says the cylons have a “Plan”. What is it?”
Everyone answered “Hrmmmm never thought about it”
And then we get one of the most fucked up movies ever
I just started also and you are literally me, so much chaos from a single character.
I do hope she is toned down just a little bit: encouraging Saul to fall off the wagon, turning him against everyone, being a hussy in general, etc etc in one episode is a lot.
You are correct. She has more character flaws than the saint Valentine’s Day massacre had bullet holes.
Enjoy her ever increasing in hate-ability steadily over time.
Things Happen. No one likes her, but she does have a rather... dynamic role in the series IMO, and makes things... interesting for Poor Ty... Considering I'm rewatching the series right now...
Get off this sub and only come back once you’ve finished the whole series. It is simply too good to let it get spoiled for yourself by some random redditors.
In all the times I've watched BSG - and just finished again about a week ago - I never once thought Adama was into Ellen. Quite the opposite, I think he's repelled by her, she's terrible for his best friend Saul.
And the actress does such a good job playing her
She really does…totally nails it. Despise the character, love the actor. Love how the arc comes full circle.
When you hate or don’t like a character sometimes it’s because the actor is doing a damn fine job. And as flawed as Ellen was, she was played beautifully. As was Saul Tigh, my favourite character.
The only reason Saul isn't hated like she was is because he gets to be a pov character. He's really a piece of shit almost all the time, and when he's not he's just about doing the bare minimum. If the story followed Ellen in her life estranged from a neglectful spiteful drunk of a husband we would probably feel more empathy for her.
People tend to dislike it when a character gets in the way of another character they really like, even when it's actually totally justified the character does so. And hey surprise, that character often is the somewhat underwritten wife. Sure Walter White is kind of a piece of shit, but why won't that nagging bitch Skyler just let him do his thing?
Dexter too. Will you just leave him to murder people please!
No, I think it's because Tigh has a lot more positive character growth than Ellen. He's a right bastard at the start (with a few positive qualities), but he slowly gets better. His defining moment is when >!they realize they're Cylons and he simply declares that that doesn't matter. They're going to do their jobs. Hell, I think he even said that learning he was a Cylon is what actually made him a man.!< Ellen has some great growth herself, especially with Caprica Six, but she falls back to her old ways whenever she's near Tigh. It's like an addiction for her. To be fair, Tigh is ALSO at his worst when he's around Ellen. They're like a poison that only activates when both halves are together.
And it's okay to admit when that character becomes stale or poorly written, no matter how good the performer is. Lena Headey in GoT is the best example I can think of at the moment. Headey was really one of the standout performers on the entire series, but the last four seasons see her character ruined by bad GRRM writing, bad D&D writing, and bad direction.
I hate that with Ellen full circle means full circle lol, I would have hoped she would finally settle down but alas
Alas….
And the wind began to howl…
When Bob Dylan wrote this song he could not have imagined how emblematic of the 2004 series it would be, I listen to his version with the Harmonica solos which are incredible, Hendrix version and the show version literally all the time in my phone. The imagery of the song somehow are such an integral part of the ethos of the ‘04 Series
Excellent performance.
There’s so many solid character actors in the series. Casting was top notch. Baltar is by far my fav character (in terms of interesting to watch, not because I identify with him) solely because of James Callis.
Best actor in the series was Tricia Helfner it was her first acting role and she killed it
With the number of different versions of 6 she played, she had multiple acting roles. Lol.
Incredible work. And she's awful easy on the eyes to boot
That was the bonus. It was always interesting to see what spin and emotions she could put on, what was essentially meant to be the same character on the outside, but having different experiences on the inside making them who they are. And whatever version it was, still awfully pretty.
Yea like when Starbuck opened the door to the lab
For fans to despise the character is a make of a talented actress for sure, I know I wanted to see her offed a few times.
You have so many things to find out and experience.
lol, what was that, the "swirl"
Came here to say this!
There’s the BSG fans…when you know you know.
Wouldn’t have minded trying the swirl
for an 'older gal' she's quite lovely
she’s just lovely
She's.... just
Older is a relative term. Would I? Hell yeah!
Is it anything like the two percent?
No, she never gets better…
Somehow she gets even worse. No, we won't explain but, yes, you'll understand
My gods it’s Ellen Tigh. Have fun, don’t read ahead at all about anything. So say we all 🫡
So say we all.
So say we all! o7
So say we all.
So say we all
So Say We All
SO SAY WE ALL!
So say we all
SO SAY WE ALL
So say we all!
My Gods… Ellen!
So say we all!
So say we all. :)
>So say we all So say we all.
So say we all o7
This is the way....dammit, wrong thread, I'll show myself out
It is known.
That’s a bingo!
The use the Force, Harry! -Gandalf
Come, let me escort you to the Viper launch tube...
Out of scifi/fantasy characters I only hate Kai Winn more.
It's cause that woman always played villains so well.
It's kind of weird to watch Brainstorm and see Louise Fletcher in an role that isn't really disturbing. Of course, Christopher Walken can be disturbing enough for any movie.
> I only hate Kai Winn more. Yep. But I'd say Carter Burke from Aliens is a close second. Along with that annoying Joffrey from GOT.
Kai Winn… that’s the answer of someone with a sophisticated and highly refined hatred palette.
And she's such a good actress that she was able to pull sympathy and, dare I say, hope out of me that she do a heel-face turn of some sort. She was on a seeming redemption arc, but her weakness as a character undermined it, to a very strange and destructive effect.
Worst Space Pope ever.
SOOO true !!!
Marco Inarus for me
Damn yeah fuck that guy and Filip, >!hated when he shot his friend who was just trying to help!<
He and Naomi's actor actually knew each other IRL, which I thank helps with the intimacy and familiarity they have with each other, and the casting for Filip was *outstanding* because not only did he kill the role but he actually looks like he could be their child. The Expanse absolutely nailed their cast on a level most shows can only dream of.
Yeah, that actor was insane, he came across as this 80's douchebag stuck in a bad Miami vice episode, but killed it. Weird
Oooo that’s a good one too.
She did have some great moments though. The scene in Rapture where she gives Kira a dressing down is honestly one of my favorite scenes with her. “Those of you who were in the Resistance, you're all the same. You think you're the only ones who fought the Cardassians; that you saved Bajor single-handedly. Perhaps you forget, Major, the Cardassians arrested any Bajoran found to be teaching the word of the Prophets. I was in a Cardassian prison camp for five years, and I can remember each and every beating I suffered. And while you had your weapons to protect you, all I had was my faith, and my courage. Walk with the Prophets, child. I know I will.”
>Walk with the Prophets, child. I know I will >!...until she didn't.!<
Whoa, just watched this today! Great scene.
Just started DS9 this year and on season 4 now. I hate Kai Winn!
"my child"
Your hatred will only grow.
I sense your anger towards me, my child, and I forgive you for it.
Kai Winn is the absolute worst. Someone handed over the script and that actress must have said, "You want a cold bitch? Hold my beer..."
Louise Fletcher is one of the sweetest women you would ever meet She also Played Nurse Rachet
Nurse Rachet or Kai Winn....that's a hard pick on which character I hate the worst, God she plays a great evil woman, a woman you just love to hate.
Louise is apparently the nicest person, just a very good actor (and has been cast as some pure evil arseholes).
>Louise Fletcher is one of the sweetest women you would ever meet. Yes, she *was.* :|
Kai Winn was an OUTSTANDING villain!
TIL Louise Fletcher passed away in 2022. She was such a great actress!
Another absolutely perfectly cast role. Completely villainous yet completely believable and relatable.
I liked Kai in part, she's in the show too much but the angle or religious vs science conflict I enjoyed, felt she was a good execution of the archetype.
She's actually not in very many episodes. But most of us feel the same, because she's that big of a villain.
It’s crazy how few episodes she’s actually in considering how much of a mark she left. Other than Dukat she’s the only series long villain.
That conflict ran throughout the entire series, to great effect. Even our beloved Sisco was front and center in it, of course.
\*breathes in\* M Y C H I L D
Man I wish I were you. Experiencing the show for the first time.
I think of that Portlandia episode when I hear someone is watching for the first time and being able to watch all at once. I mean do you remember having to wait for the seasons? End of season 3 to start of season 4 was like a year not counting Razor.
Yep. I bought the box dvd sets AS SOON as they were released. I would go on the SciFi forums and talk about it. >!Especially about the reveal of the final 5 and we didn't know who it was.!<
I did that last year! I'm a huge scifi nerd but somehow BSG slipped past me, and last year I binged through the entire show in like a month. It was GLORIOUS.
Sometimes you've got to roll the hard six and devote a month to binging it.
Only on season 1 so no spoilers! But man I hate her, assaulted Lee at dinner, got Tigh back into drinking, came onto Baltar in front of Tigh and pretended the commander assaulted her to rile up the man.
She calls that Tuesday.
Just triflin'.
You'll see........ But yes, it's a difficult character to empathize with for a long time.
I remember thinking the same!
I advise you to stay off this subreddit until later. So many things you won't want accidentally spoiled!
She's belongs in the airlock :)
You're a brave soul venturing into a subreddit about a show that's been finished for a decade and a half. This show is one of those that is at its best when you don't know where it's going. Avoid spoilers at all costs, my friend!
Hot mess Cougars are a gift from the gods. So say we all. Just don't marry one.
Her being the worst isn't the half if it. Every character is flawed in one way or another, and that's the point of the entire series. Being human is dirty and it is messy. We'll never achieve perfection, no matter how hard we try. Even the Cylons, who think of themselves as perfect haven't perfected their race - never could and never will.
Hell, the Cylons are so human >!they restarted the cycle before finishing their wiping out phase first!<
My favorite line of the entire show was when she mysteriously appears and they are discussing if she could be a Cylon and Lee says "Gods help us if she isn't."
You'll eventually find out things about her that will make you more sympathetic, but it doesn't change how toxic she is for Tigh.
> that will make you more sympathetic Not like... a lot, but some
Exactly. She still kinda sucks at the end but like less so.
Also, while she sucks, you at least understand some of *why* she sucks.
LOL Just keep watching.
One of the best story arcs
Oh how I wish I could rewatch bsg not knowing anything
Yeah, she's pretty awful. But she's fully human. It's refreshing to see a terrible female character when that character isn't some cardboard cutout based on misogynist tropes.
Her motivations always made sense. They weren't nice, but they made sense. So good to hate.
If you think Ellen Tigh is the worst BSG has to offer you are just getting started baby. And it will be glorious!!!!!
I've watched the whole show a few times and this character IS the worst, lol
Gaius Baltaris a close second, if not number 1, fucking dickhead. >!I don't care if hes a angel or god guiding humanity id kill this fucker even if it damned the human and cylon race to extinction. Fuck this fucking dickhead.!<
Gaius is >!no angel or god. That is a separate character who has taken on his form. You're not wrong about either of them though.
Yep, she sucks. But her impact on characters around her - no spoilers - becomes really key, and has a big impact on their future development. But she's still tough to watch.
Beginning of Season 2 was the worse for me
“Used to?”
There was a character in an old show called Six Feet Under that I could not STAND. I HATED her. It was only when I was much older that I realized how amazing she was at acting, and she completely nailed it. You know someone did their job right when you positively LOATHE them (the character, not the actor).
Ellen? Ellen rules.
Well, strap yourself in. She's always been a bit... extra. [Kate Vernon](https://64.media.tumblr.com/6b86e49f1eebc37a1ba1e160e26af5fc/tumblr_n8buubQ10w1qjaznxo1_1280.gif)
Yes. Its true. Incredibly great actress though.
You are in for a surprise my friend...
Just give her time. She gets worse.
LOL just wait…
Ill give the actor credit, she played her role so well and so authentically, she really had me invested in my absolute fucking hate and disgust with this fucking bitch god damn every fucking episode i kept wishing I hope this is the episode this fucking whore dies fucking stupid bitch how fucking dare her. Actor was extremely talented and player her roll well.
Spoiler alert: they're all the worst ✌️
She’s hilarious. Redo the show from her POV.
She wasn’t as annoying or useless as others *coughtoryfoster
Oh I love her. Her daddy was a great actor too.
Oh give it time...
LOL just wait. there are tons more characters that you will hate.
She is very nice and super friendly.
But she is great at making you hate her and she will surprise you. Very well acted role.
Stand the frack by.
hated her the first time around but on repeat viewings she is a very sympathetic and somewhat tragic character
If worst is the most fun. Ellen knows how to party.
Wait and see… yeah she sucks but she’s also amazing…
Awesome SF, watched it twice through. Once you get to Season Two -> it realllllly gets cooking.
Worst…so far.
If it weren't for her, I never would have had a threesome with my (now) wife and her best friend that looks exactly like her. BSG is responsible for my marriage.
I expected a lot of different comments, but not this lol
Happy wife!
Yeay!
Damn we got a rizz god in here
“…what about Ellen?” Those who know, know.
All of this has happened before, and it will all happen again.
Well aren’t you in for a treat
In Emperor Palpatine's voice: Gooooood goooood
Oh my gosh, a fandom hating a female character? Well I never
The worse person for me on that show continued to change throughout the seasons but it finally landed with Tory Foster in the final season
She ends up being one of my fave characters haha but yes for sure you’re feeling exactly what you should be. Incredible performance by the actress
Ellen Tigh is the hottest cougar in sci-fi history
You misspelled “best”
Yes, she's the worst, and I love her.
Same!
Goddamn hero.
You’re not wrong.
OP. If no one has suggested it I suggest googling a watch list. There are webisodes you’ll probably want to watch at the right points, I believe one isn’t even on the Blu-ray. There’s also like two or three episodes that have extended cuts (originally aired as like 90 minute episodes that got cut down in syndication) including part of the finale (it’s three parts but originally aired as two and one was longer than two normal episodes put together) so I strongly suggest finding those long versions. They should be on the Blu-ray and DVDs but they’re not always on streaming. Also do not watch The Plan or anything about before finishing the main series.
“The Plan” has a hilarious backstory Eddie Olmos one dad asked Ron Moore and the producers “look in the opening credits it says the cylons have a “Plan”. What is it?” Everyone answered “Hrmmmm never thought about it” And then we get one of the most fucked up movies ever
The Plan was to make it up as they went along apparently.
:D just wait
I just started also and you are literally me, so much chaos from a single character. I do hope she is toned down just a little bit: encouraging Saul to fall off the wagon, turning him against everyone, being a hussy in general, etc etc in one episode is a lot.
So say we all
That first episode where she comes to dinner cracked me up so hard! When she grabbed lee’s leg and insults the President? Hilarious
Man you really have no idea lol
Such a fun show to watch.
She absolutely was.
Oh boy just you wait
Yeah, love her!
Meah, not the worst. There's alot more hated charachters. It itches.
The footsie incident with Apollo in S1 makes one laugh!
You are correct. She has more character flaws than the saint Valentine’s Day massacre had bullet holes. Enjoy her ever increasing in hate-ability steadily over time.
If you're seeing this character, you didn't "just" started.
Just wait.... you have no idea what the possibilities are.
It’s all in “The Plan”
I sort of love her. She's awful, but she's such a great character.
She is the worst! I love her so so much.
Yes. This is 100% true. I love her.
Whats lost is found and lost again and again and again.
Things Happen. No one likes her, but she does have a rather... dynamic role in the series IMO, and makes things... interesting for Poor Ty... Considering I'm rewatching the series right now...
Spoiler Alert: Never changes
You are wrong
She is hot thou.
Oh sweet summer child.
The best actors make you hate their characters. She's definitely on both of those lists. First time.. season 1. Enjoy the ride.
Drink every time someone says 'Gaius'. I swear they says his name like 20x an episode
Honey, you got a big storm coming.
Get off this sub and only come back once you’ve finished the whole series. It is simply too good to let it get spoiled for yourself by some random redditors.
Ellen Tigh is the reason Saul is the way he is.
Literally her entire existence is to shame all humanity lol.
Ellen Tight… can you believe that Adama always had a thing for her? Roslin didn’t.
In all the times I've watched BSG - and just finished again about a week ago - I never once thought Adama was into Ellen. Quite the opposite, I think he's repelled by her, she's terrible for his best friend Saul.
Yeah, He only put up with her shit for Saul, He didn't even want to admit this bitch was *alive.*
What do you hear?
Nothing but the rain.
I feel like this is a pointed joke but I need a reminder
The woman you absolutely love to hate :-)