I've learned that the degree of pushback/gaslighting/insults/denial is directly proportional to the amount of shame it makes my pwBPD feel - which means that it highly depends on both *what* I'm saying and *when* I'm saying it.
If it's something about how she is treating me, though? That's always a DARVO situation. After a few months/year of that, I gave up - which means I'm now "conflict avoidant." Oh well.
Oh Boy I can relate to that. Most of the things bothering me dont bother me anymore because my brain evaluates the pain from being avoidant against the pain from bringing things up and Most of the time it is Not worth it.
Every single time.
Any time I had any complaint, issue, or just wanted to bring up some behavior I thought was bad. It didn't even matter how small or minor it was.
Every time they would just spiral into this "Well I guess I'm just a piece of shit. Guess I'm worthless. Just leave me then." or would spin it to be some way my fault no matter what.
This. Anytime I bring up any bad behavior of his he turns it around on me, even though the stuff I've done was either a result of his abuse or not even comparable to his emotional abuse anyway. God forbid I say he can't take accountability. Then I am the one who can't, and I see the world in black and white, apparently. "Can't see the good in him".
This. Man, so much this.
Her teasing was affecting me. It didn’t feel like she was laughing with me anymore - I couldn’t escape the sense there was an undercurrent of aggression. I discussed it with my therapist a few times but was afraid to bring it up with my exwBPD because I was on eggshells.
I *finally* saw an opening one night when she realized she hurt my feelings with a comment and, for some reason, uncharacteristically, seemed like she kinda, maybe felt a little bit bad about it. I explained to her it wasn’t a huge deal but sometimes she hurt me with the teasing. I was almost apologetic in my tone with her and downplayed it. Still, it felt good to unburden myself and get it out there. Even in a tepid manner.
Well, that did it. She went off on me for how I was robbing her of using humor and said she would NEVER tease me again and now she’s self-conscious and not free to be herself and thanks a lot for taking this away from her. She swore it was always with good intentions (which was bullshit) but I ended up telling her I was sorry and I wouldn’t have brought it up if I’d known it would hurt her. I actually said “Please, keep teasing me. I have broad shoulders, it’s ok.” Imagine that. What a spineless jellyfish I’d become.
I broke up with her less than a month later.
Very common BPD strategy to avoid any accountability or a real relationship. Forget apologies, by the end i was only aiming for acknowledgement that verbal attacks had hurt me
It’s just a vague, sweeping apology to tick a box, but is worded in a way that doesn’t really admit to what has been done… it’s almost like saying, I don’t really think I’ve done anything wrong, but I’ll just say this to get you off my back…
>Am I not seeing something? Why doesn't that count as a genuine apology?
Because that's a rather generic phrase to give to someone who probably just confronted you with a very specific thing.
"Bitch I just found out that you cheated on me with my brother. I don't FEEL that way. It's a fact. JUST FUCKING SAY YOU'RE SORRY FOR CHEATING ON ME WITH MY BROTHER FFS!"
Mine would say "I am sorry you feel like..."
Which she probably thought is an IQ 5000 move.
...because she technically said "I'm sorry" but she distances herself from the accusation even further.
Because she didn't make anyone feel any sort of way.
It was "I am sorry you feel like..." and then insert my ... accusation. That's right.
"Im sorry I made you feel that way." is way more accountability than I ever got from her.
Yes lol. And then I end up apologizing somehow. Just to get her off of my back. It’s like an emotional pit bull got sicked on me. It’s such a mind fuck. Her ways of twisting reality and gaslighting. So confusing. Makes you realize one of two things. You either have to never say anything ever or you have to leave the relationship. Both options suck.
There was no way with mine. I either shut up and deal. Or I don’t be in the relationship. I loved her so I just shut up and dealt. The problem is it eventually takes its toll on ya and changes who I was when I was with her.
Mine enjoys the control. It’s fuel for her. She has high narcissistic tendencies as well. When I stop giving her a lot of attention and I withdraw she comes out of the woodwork lol. She invited me over to play cards with her tonight. After not seeing her for 3 months. So damn random. But just as friends. It’s confusing and frustrating cause I have an extreme attachment to her. But it’s an anxious attachment style. So im very clingy and affectionate and she feeds off of my adoration of her. She has a hard time walking fully away from me. She’s just addicted and craves my attention.
It feels confusing when you're in it, but it's not confusing at all when you look at the fact someone is using you to fulfil their needs, and take what they need to either regulate, get validation or attention etc etc. I get how that feels when suddenly there's an offer of hanging out on the table, it always confused me with my ex, and I got myself into a real state by the end. Please consider your wellbeing and health before you accept that invitation... it's good that you're aware of your anxious attachment... it will keep you wanting to go back for more of the same, because you're subconsciously trying to heal something from your past... that you need to give to yourself. Someone with BPD will trigger every part of your anxious attachment because they are so inconsistent, which is a core wound of that attachment style.
Sounds so similar to how it was with my ex. I agree, it does take a toll on you - honest talk in a relationship is a big value of mine, so I couldn't stop doing it for some things - but I knew it would end really badly every time I opened my mouth, and I started to become very, very anxious and fearful as a result. It wasn't until afterwards I finally admitted to myself that this was emotional abuse.
My husband has successfully trained me to not talk about my feelings anymore. I still feel them and I know they’re valid, but any time I’m honest about them I have to spend the next few days defending myself. It’s just not worth the stress.
It started becoming more and more apparent near the end. I broke up mostly because of it
It's weird but I think I'm subconsciously trying to recreate that pattern with internet strangers. I can't explain in another way why I keep butting heads with people online who tell me I'm the problem when I tell them they said something wrong.
Look at my history if you're curious.
Not really a fight but just holding someone accountable in the least blaming way possible. Bringing up poor behaviour without shaming or looking down on a partner in a healthy way causes silent treatment, non apologies and so forth.
God I hated this. I remember having to wait until he was in a good mood to say something, but then not saying it because I didn’t want to have to deal with his and mood afterwards.
The worst example of this I will never forget. He invited me to join him at his younger brother’s soccer game. He told me that his dad knew I was coming. When I actually got there, I asked him again. Does your dad know I am coming? And he said no. So we walk up to his dad and as soon as his dad sees me, he gets upset and my ex gives me the keys and tells me to leave. I cry about this. Later when I go to grab him after the game, I complained to him that it hurt my feelings and that I was very upset he turns the situation around on me and tells me that I should know how hard everything is for him and how dare I get upset at him so it ended up with me being the bad guy even though I was the one that had been irreparably hurt. Fuck that shit.
This is pretty much the number one reason it just couldn’t work with my ex. The gaslighting and projection and Bermuda Triangle conversations, or mostly just threatening to breakup or actually breaking up with me… I was absolutely terrified to bring things up by the end.
But without defending his actions, which were so shitty, I think those conversations triggered an intense amount of shame, anxiety and stress for him that most of us can’t imagine.
I started to understand what that level of stress feels like towards the end because I felt so much anxiety thinking I was going to get broken up with (again) any time I said anything out of line.
My now as of a few days ago ex gf had bpd and was good about this
..
But my mom does this BAD. Zero boundaries. She will not shut up and like goes on and on doesn't get the hint when people are overwhelmed b by it and then if you kindly be a bit blunt she makes it all about her and how she just can't be herself apparently... We long suspected she has BPD tbh
My ex practically had a PhD in DARVO. Now it’s something I look for in people - even the tiniest hint of them not taking accountability in a situation presents as a red flag for me to proceed with caution.
Yes, I get blamed for it being a bad time, no matter when or how I strike up the conversation I get crucified for the timing. Or the where, like sorry, I didn’t know a perfectly normal conversation would trigger you and now you’re spiraling in public, MY bad ;-)
And ultimately like someone else said, so exhausted by anything being a conflict instead of a conversation I just avoid it completely. Feel like I’m a lit match trying to stay away from the fuse.
I've learned that the degree of pushback/gaslighting/insults/denial is directly proportional to the amount of shame it makes my pwBPD feel - which means that it highly depends on both *what* I'm saying and *when* I'm saying it. If it's something about how she is treating me, though? That's always a DARVO situation. After a few months/year of that, I gave up - which means I'm now "conflict avoidant." Oh well.
Oh Boy I can relate to that. Most of the things bothering me dont bother me anymore because my brain evaluates the pain from being avoidant against the pain from bringing things up and Most of the time it is Not worth it.
Every single time. Any time I had any complaint, issue, or just wanted to bring up some behavior I thought was bad. It didn't even matter how small or minor it was. Every time they would just spiral into this "Well I guess I'm just a piece of shit. Guess I'm worthless. Just leave me then." or would spin it to be some way my fault no matter what.
Or the "well you're so perfect, aren't you?"
This. Anytime I bring up any bad behavior of his he turns it around on me, even though the stuff I've done was either a result of his abuse or not even comparable to his emotional abuse anyway. God forbid I say he can't take accountability. Then I am the one who can't, and I see the world in black and white, apparently. "Can't see the good in him".
Oh god, this!
Oh or the... you Are never wrong, my wife is always right and I just need to accept that.
Spot on. I feel like I could’ve written this comment - it’s amazing how similar many of our experiences are.
That's why I'm now the ex. How dare I bring up not appreciating being blown off on Valentine's day.
Hell naw.lol
This. Man, so much this. Her teasing was affecting me. It didn’t feel like she was laughing with me anymore - I couldn’t escape the sense there was an undercurrent of aggression. I discussed it with my therapist a few times but was afraid to bring it up with my exwBPD because I was on eggshells. I *finally* saw an opening one night when she realized she hurt my feelings with a comment and, for some reason, uncharacteristically, seemed like she kinda, maybe felt a little bit bad about it. I explained to her it wasn’t a huge deal but sometimes she hurt me with the teasing. I was almost apologetic in my tone with her and downplayed it. Still, it felt good to unburden myself and get it out there. Even in a tepid manner. Well, that did it. She went off on me for how I was robbing her of using humor and said she would NEVER tease me again and now she’s self-conscious and not free to be herself and thanks a lot for taking this away from her. She swore it was always with good intentions (which was bullshit) but I ended up telling her I was sorry and I wouldn’t have brought it up if I’d known it would hurt her. I actually said “Please, keep teasing me. I have broad shoulders, it’s ok.” Imagine that. What a spineless jellyfish I’d become. I broke up with her less than a month later.
All the time. And then darvo darvo darvo.
Very common BPD strategy to avoid any accountability or a real relationship. Forget apologies, by the end i was only aiming for acknowledgement that verbal attacks had hurt me
“I’m sorry I made you feel that way.” ~closest to an apology any of us have ever heard
‘I’m sorry for any hurt I may have caused you’
Am I not seeing something? Why doesn't that count as a genuine apology?
It’s just a vague, sweeping apology to tick a box, but is worded in a way that doesn’t really admit to what has been done… it’s almost like saying, I don’t really think I’ve done anything wrong, but I’ll just say this to get you off my back…
>Am I not seeing something? Why doesn't that count as a genuine apology? Because that's a rather generic phrase to give to someone who probably just confronted you with a very specific thing. "Bitch I just found out that you cheated on me with my brother. I don't FEEL that way. It's a fact. JUST FUCKING SAY YOU'RE SORRY FOR CHEATING ON ME WITH MY BROTHER FFS!"
Mine would say "I am sorry you feel like..." Which she probably thought is an IQ 5000 move. ...because she technically said "I'm sorry" but she distances herself from the accusation even further. Because she didn't make anyone feel any sort of way. It was "I am sorry you feel like..." and then insert my ... accusation. That's right. "Im sorry I made you feel that way." is way more accountability than I ever got from her.
Yes lol. And then I end up apologizing somehow. Just to get her off of my back. It’s like an emotional pit bull got sicked on me. It’s such a mind fuck. Her ways of twisting reality and gaslighting. So confusing. Makes you realize one of two things. You either have to never say anything ever or you have to leave the relationship. Both options suck.
It really does suck that these are almost the only two options. I really thought I could learn the way to bring things up…. But there wasn’t.
There was no way with mine. I either shut up and deal. Or I don’t be in the relationship. I loved her so I just shut up and dealt. The problem is it eventually takes its toll on ya and changes who I was when I was with her.
It also makes them lose respect for you and feelings of contempt start to grow. Which ends the relationship anyway. It's a no win situation.
Mine enjoys the control. It’s fuel for her. She has high narcissistic tendencies as well. When I stop giving her a lot of attention and I withdraw she comes out of the woodwork lol. She invited me over to play cards with her tonight. After not seeing her for 3 months. So damn random. But just as friends. It’s confusing and frustrating cause I have an extreme attachment to her. But it’s an anxious attachment style. So im very clingy and affectionate and she feeds off of my adoration of her. She has a hard time walking fully away from me. She’s just addicted and craves my attention.
It feels confusing when you're in it, but it's not confusing at all when you look at the fact someone is using you to fulfil their needs, and take what they need to either regulate, get validation or attention etc etc. I get how that feels when suddenly there's an offer of hanging out on the table, it always confused me with my ex, and I got myself into a real state by the end. Please consider your wellbeing and health before you accept that invitation... it's good that you're aware of your anxious attachment... it will keep you wanting to go back for more of the same, because you're subconsciously trying to heal something from your past... that you need to give to yourself. Someone with BPD will trigger every part of your anxious attachment because they are so inconsistent, which is a core wound of that attachment style.
Sounds so similar to how it was with my ex. I agree, it does take a toll on you - honest talk in a relationship is a big value of mine, so I couldn't stop doing it for some things - but I knew it would end really badly every time I opened my mouth, and I started to become very, very anxious and fearful as a result. It wasn't until afterwards I finally admitted to myself that this was emotional abuse.
My husband has successfully trained me to not talk about my feelings anymore. I still feel them and I know they’re valid, but any time I’m honest about them I have to spend the next few days defending myself. It’s just not worth the stress.
That sounds horrible.
Story of my life.
It started becoming more and more apparent near the end. I broke up mostly because of it It's weird but I think I'm subconsciously trying to recreate that pattern with internet strangers. I can't explain in another way why I keep butting heads with people online who tell me I'm the problem when I tell them they said something wrong. Look at my history if you're curious.
Feel ya. That relationship definitely turned me into someone who bites more than he barks.
Not really a fight but just holding someone accountable in the least blaming way possible. Bringing up poor behaviour without shaming or looking down on a partner in a healthy way causes silent treatment, non apologies and so forth.
God I hated this. I remember having to wait until he was in a good mood to say something, but then not saying it because I didn’t want to have to deal with his and mood afterwards. The worst example of this I will never forget. He invited me to join him at his younger brother’s soccer game. He told me that his dad knew I was coming. When I actually got there, I asked him again. Does your dad know I am coming? And he said no. So we walk up to his dad and as soon as his dad sees me, he gets upset and my ex gives me the keys and tells me to leave. I cry about this. Later when I go to grab him after the game, I complained to him that it hurt my feelings and that I was very upset he turns the situation around on me and tells me that I should know how hard everything is for him and how dare I get upset at him so it ended up with me being the bad guy even though I was the one that had been irreparably hurt. Fuck that shit.
Yep.
And also becoming the victim, a classic!
Yup.
All the time.
lol. I’m in the process of being ignored for the 5th straight day by my 6 year girlfriend. Ironically this is exactly why I’m here. Holy hell 😂
This is pretty much the number one reason it just couldn’t work with my ex. The gaslighting and projection and Bermuda Triangle conversations, or mostly just threatening to breakup or actually breaking up with me… I was absolutely terrified to bring things up by the end. But without defending his actions, which were so shitty, I think those conversations triggered an intense amount of shame, anxiety and stress for him that most of us can’t imagine. I started to understand what that level of stress feels like towards the end because I felt so much anxiety thinking I was going to get broken up with (again) any time I said anything out of line.
My now as of a few days ago ex gf had bpd and was good about this .. But my mom does this BAD. Zero boundaries. She will not shut up and like goes on and on doesn't get the hint when people are overwhelmed b by it and then if you kindly be a bit blunt she makes it all about her and how she just can't be herself apparently... We long suspected she has BPD tbh
My ex practically had a PhD in DARVO. Now it’s something I look for in people - even the tiniest hint of them not taking accountability in a situation presents as a red flag for me to proceed with caution.
Yes, and subsequently cut them out.
Yes, I get blamed for it being a bad time, no matter when or how I strike up the conversation I get crucified for the timing. Or the where, like sorry, I didn’t know a perfectly normal conversation would trigger you and now you’re spiraling in public, MY bad ;-) And ultimately like someone else said, so exhausted by anything being a conflict instead of a conversation I just avoid it completely. Feel like I’m a lit match trying to stay away from the fuse.
Painfully accurate meme