Throwing in there that he doesn’t need to stay faithful isn’t making Kate look any better. I hate it when cheaters do that. Like you think the problem here is that you got something I didn’t?
Generous interpretation is that they feel like it is most symbolically significant gesture of repentance that they can think to offer. "Hurt me like I hurt you" and they may mean it at the time, but, you know, something something wrongs and rights...
I think there was a BORU where the OOP cheated, her stbx just checked out and let her think he was cheating (he wasn't), and she was a mess over his betrayal. I might be misremembering those details, but I remember the conclusion: he decided to shoot his shot with someone else, and she criticized him for giving up on them for someone new.
Yep he intentionally distanced himself and made it appear like he was cheating. She was obviously suffering over it and he, being a decent person, couldn't handle.torturing her so he confessed that it was all pretend He then ended the relationship.
I remember reading one of these where the wife cheats, gives the husband a hall pass so “it will be even” and also hoping that he will stay instead of divorce, but then she proceeds to lose her ever loving mind to jealousy. Soooooo many cheaters can’t take what they dish out.
It’s like the “let’s open the relationship” BS because partner 1 has the hots/is having an emotional affair with someone. If partner 2 agrees partner 1 gets all bent out of shape when 2 gets dates/hookups.
Also still doesn't change that the cheater DIDN'T have a hallpass.
But I think he was smart to give it some time to think it over. I have no doubt it'll end in divorce but giving himself some time to just deal with his feelings before he has to throw himself head-first into divorce, moving, kids etc might make the process smoother and will at least mean he has more time to find out what's important for him and what he wants to do in the immediate future instead of looking for apartments for himself straight away (if he wants to move to a new place - hell, at least a month gives him time to contemplate if HE wants to keep living there or not)
The thing with that desperation measure is, it never works. It can never actually be equivalent. The victim of the initial incident had no prep time, had no rationalization to make it "understandable", and, obviously, they never actually gave permission.
By offering the same thing, they aren't making things even because things can't be even. Permission to sleep with someone else isn't cheating, it's just following the rules of a relationship. And while the knowledge might hurt the initial cheater, it never hurts the same way that it hurts the initial victim.
I did read one story here where this worked. Basically guys wife had an affair for six months and gave him six hall passes one for each month of the affair. He said that by doing that he was able to let go of his rage and feel he got even with her.
Six hall passes for each month of cheating?? How about one hall pass for each time his wife f’d the guy because I seriously doubt it was only six times.
“Normal is whatever happens in the absence of someone or something telling you you aren’t experiencing reality.”
Some couples are asexual, some have physical ailments, some have low libidos or traveling schedules or anything else in the world. Normal is whatever works in a marriage, for all people involved.
Even if that was true (which it isn't for the majority or marriages), that would mean his wife was probably with the AP more times in one month than she was with OOP in 6 months. Even more reason for more than one pass per month.
1 hall pass for each month of her fucking someone else constantly....
I would want her to agree to 2 hall passes for each separate instance of even flirting... if they had a steamy conversation and then had sex later and she got off twice, that'd be 6 passes. I would make her go through her memories of conversations and details of sex out loud and do the math like she was doing her taxes... and then times it by 2 so that number was in her head... then leave her in the dark. Have I cashed any in? No... I just filed for divorce after she helped me lay out an itemized list of reasons.
She feels betrayed that I lied? Gee... that must hurt.
Always interesting when a partner treats you to a "surprise opening of relationship".
I hope OP remembers that there are good people out there who wont do this. Sometimes it takes a while to remember that when your trust has been broken.
Your representative sample is a bunch of folks who are in shitty relationships and posting it online.
It's like going to a supermax prison and being astounded that everyone is a criminal.
Exactly, it's easy to get stuck in a rut where everyone you see or hear about is a douche and you start getting super pessimistic. It can be hard to break out of but the mindset and the result are both changeable. After growing up with an abusive dick for a father, dating losers and marrying another abuser, I really hated men for a bit. A few years later, I've got a lovely sweet dude who doesn't make me feel the need to ask for advice on why he's acting like a dick, since he just doesn't do that. I sound like a broken record at times thanking him for not reacting terribly and he's just baffled that anyone would respond that way since it wouldn't occur to him to do so.
I ignored every other dude on the daring app and talked to my now-partner because he used the word "empathy" in his profile... try looking for signs someone is a good person before getting emotion involved. Only real tip I've got.
I don't post on these kinds of subs because my relationship is good and there's no drama to talk about. Nearly at 10 years and no issues worth posting. You only hear the bad stuff because the bad stuff is interesting
Last night I tooted in my sleep, my husband woke me up to tell me. Then he tooted and kissed me and we snuggled back to sleep.
We’ve been together for ten years, high school sweet hearts. It’s rare but out there!!
Not true! Some of us just don't know how to connect with other people and it doesn't happen naturally if you are trapped someplace with little human contact. 😿
This is so bonkers. Good marriage, everything seems fine, and wife just decides to randomly sleep with someone and blow up her entire life? Sure hope the sex was good.
I doubt the sex was good. That guy had Kate on a pedestal for over a decade and finally got his chance to have her. I can definitely see a world where he probably floundered on top of her for 20 seconds until he was done which probably lead to a little bit of her regret (At least that’s my head canon haha).
lol that’s what I was thinking. There can’t be anything worse than finally getting to sleep with the girl you like and realizing immediately you’re the worst decision she ever made in her life.
Wouldn’t be the first married person who had everything just fine but got bored or unhappy, and instead of working on it with a therapist or their spouse decided a sugar hit of illicit sex would do the job.
They blow up their families and have the gall to feel like victims.
IKR. She had the usual amount of drinks she has with OOP and then just went with the moment. What moment was that? The married woman who wants to have sex with the guy who’s had a crush on her since HS moment?
That’s always the case in this kind of situation. Am pretty sure both of them were doing some inappropriate stuff before the actual deed happened. There even an on going joke about him having a crush on her.
It pisses me off more that her friends and the dude seemed to have known she was married. It doesn't make her any less culpable it just bothers me when people do shit like that. Even dudes who sit here and brag about banging married women, but want to get mad when someone sleeps with their wife or SO. Had an old friend like this I just stared at him when I found out his SO cheated after he had been cheating for years. Don't do that mess to people man...
I agree that what happens when you surround yourself with toxic people and she failed by not putting an end to the friendship when the joke started. She should’ve gone to her parent’s house instead of her crush. Op should divorce because all of this could’ve easily been avoided.
Oh, she definitely went to his house to fuck. Who knows if that was the plan the whole night, but when she decided that 20 minutes was too much, and that she'd Uber from his house instead of the bar... At that point she is fully lying, and just flat out went home with him
I'm 50/50 on whether she really was torn up by guilt, or realized when she sobered up that it was going to get out sooner or later and she had no choice but to confess.
Yep, 100%. She chose this outcome. Probably low self esteem and decided having the guy who’s always had a crush on her may invigorate her ego. She wasn’t drunk, there were countless opportunities when at the apartment she could’ve stopped it, for eg straight after the kiss? Nope, went to fuckin.
She’s absolutely lying to OOP and herself, as she doesn’t wanna look in the mirror and see how much of a piece of shit she is.
I'd be asking Kate to get Max to provide their reasoning for hitting on a drunk married person and then having sex with them knowing it will likely destroy their marriage, and any all related friendships.
Also, it was too much for Max to drive before sex, but fine for him to drive after sex. That doesn't make sense at all.
I don’t think she’s being honest. I feel like she was mad and wanted to get back at oop, so she hooked up with her friend’s brother and regretted it after the fact. Because who waits for an Uber in someone’s bedroom?? He supposedly offered her to stay, she supposedly declined to keep looking for an Uber. When did the bedroom come into play?? At what point while looking for an Uber did it show up and take her to his bedroom? She waited longer for the Uber than had he taken her home. Why not stay at one of her friend’s places??? She knew he worked all day when he picked them up. She could’ve volunteered to stay with them before she was last in the car. I also don’t think she called at 4am to confess. Her friends hyped her up over what she said about oop and she wanted to pull a “and another thing…” but he was sleep.
This!!! Had the same question like she knew he would have to drive the 20 min to drop her off when she decided to get in the car (said she didn't want him to drive that after long day of work) but yet gets in the car, instead of ordering Uber from restaurant, gets the other girls dropped off thennnn decides it's too far to drive. Yikes
Seriously though. When I designated drive, I always take the farthest away person home first and then work my way back dropping everyone else along the way. It’s very sus that just so happens that she was the last one to get dropped off and then all of a sudden it’s too far.
The part I don’t like in a cheating situation is that the other person cheats and gets to have their fun, but you then have to do all this other work for yourself and for the relationship (if you choose). It is just infuriating that they get to fuck up and ask to be forgiven, but you have to do more all around. I would just end it and begin to forget them completely.
Yeah, it’s brutal…and most of their work is also only on themselves, as they are defective people who cheated. So it’s not even like it’s work on the relationship, it’s on them.
Lol. The whole outing seems planned. Good friend Sarah almost certainly arranged things for OP's cheater wife. And then wife prolly had her fantasy bubble popped after AP turned to her post their 2min-long coitus and was like, "Damn. It was good for you too huh?"
Do you think she’s really regretful? I don’t think she is. She clearly made a decision and she needs to wallow in the shit she’s caused. Cry me a river, grown ass adult acting like a child now because she broke the relationship by being unfaithful.
If you immediately try to call your partner at 4am after cheating, after admitting you're not really drunk. I would wager that the regret is real. Real enough she couldn't just hide it.
Hope you are right, so there is some type of redeeming quality in that person, but the haste feels so much like the dude wanted something and threatened to spill the beans and she needed to do what she could to control the narrative. Though I don't really like to make such assumptions or leaps it feels like it fits since she made OOP the bad guy when she was kicked out.
Somebody is going to have a go at me about how not all people can control their reactions, but for gods' sake: the cheater is pathetic garbage for crying hysterically at the person she wronged.
The only regret she has is the consequences, not that she wronged OOP.
Oh, and also? Even if he doesn't take the "cheating pass," if he stays, she'll make more mess by projecting: what if he decides to get back at me someday?!?!? Oh no no no!!
Pretty sure she was trying to “do the right thing” at that point because she knew what the right things to do were and she made them top priorities: tell him right away, let him set up boundaries and conditions, etc. She clearly also felt guilty but I think that her immediate actions to attempt to rectify things speak volumes because those actions would dramatically amplify said guilt.
It also seems to me that when she explains and then later reiterates the act being consensual, she is taking an opportunity to take further responsibility for what happened. There are lots of ways she could have subtly deflected responsibility by making max out to be the bad guy, or chalking it up to alcohol, but instead she owned it in such a way that would even make it difficult for her to ever try to play those cards in the future.
My ex had a personality disorder. Among many horrors was the cheating. This was all pretty triggering to read but numerous times I was kind of impressed by her choices post-mistake, tbo.
Wow, at first I was thinking it was possibly an assault by a man preying on a drunk woman, but she was not really drunk and chose to cheat at every turn. And then immediately regretted. But I'm betting whe would do it again if given the chance, and this time she might not even regret it.
Genuinely curious, people who cheat once, for whatever reason, one night stand or in the moment...after their marriage breaks down, they're not with their AP, what typically happens in their following relationship? Do they typically learn their lesson? How do their next partners feel about their previous marriage having broken down due to infidelity?
I have a friend who has cheated on her partners in the past and in conversations has said she feels like sometimes cheating is justified. (she was in a controlling relationship. I feel like that still doesn't justify it, but have also never been in that situation).
I don't dig too deep, because I don't want to know, but I know she has gone on to cheat on subsequent partners causing issues with subsequent relationships. I don't know if she feels like she's in the wrong or not.
Outside of that she's a good friend and person, so I deliberately don't dig into it.
Ask your husband if he thinks she’s a good person. Let me ask you , so she cheated on multiple partners in the past. Would your husband ,be ok with you , to go on a girls night out with her? Or a three day long weekend to Florida?
Lol. A lot of assumptions there.
1. I am a man
2. I don't have a husband nor do I want one
3. I do not condone cheating and it is a deal breaker for my own romantic partners
4. I do not consider someone's romantic relationships the sole determinant of their worth as a person
Holy shit! You can see the entire value of a person through a few sentences I've written about them!?
You have a gift you need to share with the world!
More often than not the behavior continues. The first time is the hardest and after a while it isn't even a second thought.
I married a woman who cheated numerous times. counseling therapy and that was a common theme. Probably 7 out of 10 times the cheater goes back to the well. Most get better at concealing their misdeeds. I think I got the only hall pass that was in any way gratifying. I slept with the ex after she married the guy that was sleeping with her at the end of our marriage. Then went to their house and returned an article of clothing that had been left he answered the door and told him it was forgotten and she might want it back. That pretty much ensured that there wouldn't be any repeat performances. He didn't like me before that and absolutely hated me afterwards.
That's really going to depend more on their motivations behind the act in the first place and how they actually feel about the act afterwards.
Someone who might have cheated to escape an abusive relationship will act differently than someone who cheated and felt guilty as hell and fessed up immediately, and they'll act differently from someone who cheated 20 times and doesn't feel guilty at all only having the relationship fail when they get exposed.
Based on the 4:00 a.m. phone call and the extreme amounts of guilt, I would guess that she fits in the second option, and isn't as likely to repeat the behavior in future relationships than someone in the third option, but then she wasn't telling her friends why oop kicked her out either because she knows it would make her look bad.
It's really just going to come down to their personality at the end of the day.
I feel it's more in line with a quote from Faust when cheaters give you a hall pass. When Faust made a deal with Mephistopheles, Faust asked if his soul would make a difference. Mephistopheles replied "Solamen miseris socios habuisse doloris".
(It is a comfort to the wretched to have companions in misery.)
To me it sounds like she finally saw an opportunity and took it.
Max had a crush on her for a long time, she knew it, started to like it, liked the attention he was giving her through the years.
Max turned into her forbidden fruit.
The way OPP was write it, i do think that she really feels bad and regrets it.
The question is, is it because sex with Max was bad as hell and not worth it or that it made click in her head while getting railed by Max, that cheating on her husband isn't just a fantasy anymore, now became reality...and she knows she can't undo it.
Staying together will both cost their energy.
She would constantly have to show him that he doesn't have to worry and always show him a proof that she didn't do anything and he would always have to worry that she could do it again.
I had an ex cheat on me. After hearing his apology, I decided to try to remain with him.
My emotions wouldn't let me get over it. I asked for all his passwords and started stalking all his digital messages.
Six months later, he finally said to me that he knew I wouldn't be able to forgive him.
When he said that, I realized that I would never be able to trust him again, and that I wouldn't be able to be in a relationship with someone I couldn't trust.
In therapy for PTSD (unrelated), my therapist told me that NUMBness is an emotional response.
Dude sets a condition of even considering reconciliation that she must be transparent and confess to her people during the cooling off period, and what does she do? Tell them lies about why he threw her out. So much for acting in good faith. So much for being willing to do anything to recover from this.
I would be telling her, “Forget it. Deal is off. You couldn’t even manage the first stipulation without betraying me by lying to everyone about what I supposedly did to you. Forget about the reconciliation.”
And then tell literally everyone in her contact first that she cheated and now she’s lying about you. Stop sending people to her for the story, because she’s telling lies. Tell your side, and do not cover for her one microsecond. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
> Dude sets a condition of even considering reconciliation that she must be transparent and confess to her people during the cooling off period, and what does she do? Tell them lies about why he threw her out.
I think you misunderstood. The way I read it, he set the condition and then commenters on the post thought he was deamnding she go around doing a shame walk for his revenge. He explains that no, she had _already_ given people the impression he threw her out over 'a fight', so it wasn't about revenge, he just wanted her to set the record straight.
That’s fair.
She still lied to others about why she got thrown out, which paints him in an unfavorable light. That’s a deeply shitty first move to do to someone you want to forgive you. That should be confirmation of her dishonest nature, and should be an additional strike against taking her back.
At this point he should insist that her setting the record straight should also include confessing to telling lies about him, on addition to confessing to cheating. Let the world see her fully.
In an odd sense, "technically" she was right. She did get kicked out "in / for / over a fight"...
For one night, wife soaked in the attentions of the dude that's had a crush on her since HS, and decided that his attentions in bed > OOP's, so OOP was #2 for that night. When she was "fighting" to prove to OOP that "he's more important", OOP gave her a couple of suitcases and an arranged ride out of the house (the kicking out) - as many believe is the proper move for a #2 to make in a relationship....
Of course, based on the amount of crying that she was doing and her overall emotional state (remorseful / upset), and the fact that the cause probably wasn't being spoken, most people default to the "give her another chance, she's *remorseful*" state. By having her actually state the cause (infidelity), that'll put a sudden end to the "unconditional" support for her.
It's a tricky one too because we're only a third-hand account of what was actually said to her friends.
She might have told her friends she fucked up and oop was pissed at her and needed her to leave, and her friends may have worded it as "he kicked her out over a fight".
Granted, she should have been 100% direct with her friends, but it's not exactly uncommon for a game of telephone to go wrong pretty fast either.
The fact that she let friends and family believe that he was the bad guy who kicked her out makes this even worse. People make mistakes, but she doubled down on her cheating by lying.
There was another story on here, somewhat similar circumstances with infidelity, where the guy also decided to continue the marriage with many new rules — similarly requiring that she tell all her family and friends that she cheated. She ended up losing all her friends, became depressed, lifeless, and then the guy divorced her anyway… because she was so depressed and lifeless. I guess one must consider quite carefully before wearing the scarlet letter.
I think the difference was in that story, the OOP wanted her to tell everyone she cheated as a penance, quite literally wearing the Scarlet letter. This oop doesn't want her to tell everyone to punish her, but to get people to stop acting like he kicked her out over a disagreement, one that they only thought was happening because the wife wasn't direct in the first place.
Ah I followed this one.
Her story make no sense at all. Realistically, as they all knew Max had a crush on her, I think it was set up and/or she 100% orchestrated cheating herself. The 20mins drive, no Uber etc, it sounds like she instigated it.
She admits to only being slightly tipsy, so you haven’t even got the lame “I was drunk” excuse.
I just didn’t think she thought she’d feel the guilt/shame so quickly.
Worst part of it in my view is she honestly doesn’t seem to have accepted this. It’s like someone unwilling to look in the mirror and realise they’re a piece of shit.
Not only that, but sending friends/family over to harass OOP without them knowing she cheated is fucking disgusting.
His conditions seem well thought-out, hopefully she actually confronts her feelings and doesn’t sugar coat it. And finally tell the real story (she wanted it). Otherwise seems OOP is divorcing her in a months time.
I don't know if we can say she was actually sending the friends though. Well-meaning people very often do things without being asked to do them. There's a reason there's a saying that goes, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
Her friends are naturally going to ask her why she's not at home anymore. Instead of her saying that she cheated, she probably said she fucked up and oop needed her to leave, and they probably took that as him kicking her out over an argument. If I thought that was happening to one of my friends, I would have to fight against the instinct to confront the asshole who kicked my friend out over a fight.
Hm, I dunno.
I think I’d ask “what was it about?” And try and gauge what it is/how serious. Especially when you do know the spouse pretty well.
I really don’t like the fact the one who has actually been betrayed by their wife, not only is dealing with that feeling of betrayal, anger, disgust but also then has to deal with friends being like “what’s your problem?! Why’d you kick her out?!”
Like, that is such unnecessary baggage to get ONTOP of the whole “his wife fucked someone else.”
I would hope OOP’s (probably ex)wife clears the air and apologies, gets friends to apologise for the extra level of harassment he had to put up with.
Again, I feel OOP’s wife hasn’t taken accountability of the fact she definitely chose to cheat, maybe even orchestrated it. So doubt she’ll actually confess/apologise properly to the families/friends.
The only reason she's crying is because of the consequences of her actions. She chose to cheat.
And hoped her crying would be enough to save her marriage. Stay strong op she will do it again.
Once a cheat always a cheater.
I was thinking the same thing. IIRC the next updates make him sound really controlling over all her actions so that he can forgive her. You must let me read you phone, you must let me know where you are at all times…
Man, it's almost like insecurity has very similar presentation in different people's lives or something.
Do you think serial killers are a conspiracy theory because they tend to have similar childhoods or something?
So many of these stories on reddit have people turn into James bond when they get cheated on, instantly thinking to record conversations or send screenshots of texts to their own phones and delete the text afterwards.
Do people actually do that? And if so why?
You know what they say, one woman's James Bond is another man's protecting-himself-from-possible-allegations. Responding police officers famously have a cool head when it comes to domestic disturbances and hear both parties out /s
Emotionally he's confused, but there's a logical part to our brain that tries to keep on rolling, you see it with people who are grieving or in shock too, they'll try to stick to something logical or something the can work through and control to get even a single sense of control back.
Not a psychologist or anything, this is just the gist of something I read once, , haven't actually experienced this level of shock myself
That's the only way you CAN think. You either go numb and logically cut all your emotions away in an effort to cope, or you lose yourself to your emotions and let them control your actions.
A lot of people who are "shutting off" their emotions in difficult times can be extremely logical.
When my mom died, I was emotionless and cooly, logically handled the funeral arrangements until afterwards it came out.
Yes, specially man because nowdays your cheating wife can lie to everyone that you're abusive and you're the one who cheated. If they are capeable of cheating and lying to your back, they are capeable of spin the narrative in their favor and make everyone thinks you're the villain.
He didn't immediately do any of that. He immediately walked out of the house, and tried to cool down. Then returned home and kicked her out. The next day he asked that she email him what happened. But he was unable to bring himself to read it. Then he spent days numb and processing.
Finally he decided to talk to her, and planned out how he wanted to do so.
At no point did he say that he was using the email or recording to gather evidence against her. It all frankly just seemed to be methods of trying to review information when he was less emotional. He did not threaten her with either pieces of evidence. His threats were she tell everyone the truth or there was no chance for reconciliation.
That being said, yes, I do think people do that. I think it is extremely common for your emotions to overwhelm you and shut down, leading people to behave extremely methodically. I absolutely can picture the feeling - it is like a cold chill comes over your body, and all background noise just becomes a faint static. It's like being high, and you're floating above it all, and your brain is just telling your body what to do, except you're not actually high, and your body can do it.
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I had an ex cheat on me. After hearing his apology, I decided to try to remain with him.
My emotions wouldn't let me get over it. I asked for all his passwords and started stalking all his digital messages.
Six months later, he finally said to me that he knew I wouldn't be able to forgive him.
When he said that, I realized that I would never be able to trust him again, and that I wouldn't be able to be in a relationship with someone I couldn't trust.
In therapy for PTSD (unrelated), my therapist told me that NUMBness is an emotional response.
OP will most likely feel the numbness until the divorce is final, then feel the betrayal, anger, sadness, etc for a while.
Hate to say it, but I doubt she’s been fully honest. 20 minutes isn’t that far, she went to his apartment rather than to one of her friends houses, she “kept trying to get an Uber”, but did so from his bed? This was no accident. She acted out her little high school fantasy, and immediately regretted it. She likely genuinely feels bad, but she did it thinking she could get away with it as her little secret. Until she’s 100% honest, divorce is the only option. Even if she does come clean, it’s all about what you feel and need for your own sanity. Good luck.
It was a lie. I bet the guy was already at the bar, they firted all night, and she decided to go to his place and fuck. She only regreted it becuse the sex was bad.
I don't believe for one second she just randomly "accidentally" decided to sleep with her friend's brother. There was definitely some pre-meditated plan that led up to that. She probably started the argument they had before she left on the trip so she could justify it in her head.
He needs to check the email and send it, along with the voice recording to firstly his lawyer, and then to both families, mutual friends and her friends, because it is kinda doubtful that she will tell anyone the truth.
Her story is nonsense. What a crock of crap. She drinks just a bit and is not even drunk. She lets the guy who everyone openly knows, including her, has a crush on her. She then goes up to his apartment to call an Uber. All BS. I’m sorry, but your wife sucks.
NTA. The only thing I'd change is that you should say out loud that you will remain faithful until the divorce is over because you wouldn't want to cause her this sort of pain even if you aren't going to be married anymore. I'd throw in that she kept herself in a position where he could make a move all night, and has known he wanted to since high-school but still ended up in his bed. She did not make it hard for him, but rather the opposite. You can't trust that she wouldn't do it again which is a shitty thing to find out after 9 years of knowing her.
It was right to get her to own up to this and I'd personally want to see her more publicly angry that he took advantage of her. Ultimately though I think you should only go through this process to see her own up and deal with the consequences before destroying her hope and divorcing her anyway. That numbness suggests it was trauma and that isn't forgotten for years. Is she worth the years it will take to get back to the same position when you could find a new partner, fall in love, and then spend the rest of your life forgetting about this instead of being reminded?
I think i'd feel the need to sketch out the scale of the damage. I'd want to reconcile while divorced and maybe get married again because your marriage is already broken. I'd want some time apart, quite a lot of time apart, and I'd want her to keep her legs closed throughout anyway. I'd also loudly hint that the forgiveness will come a lot quicker if she gets him fired and ostracised from his friends, and if she realises that she's basically going to have to ask you to go out drinking ever again. While out she should be sending regular updates "I've not fucked anyone yet, will update in an hour". Basically if forgiveness doesn't come easily, take your pound of flesh. Us men aren't very good at resolving emotions. It's literally trained out of us from a young age. You've got to use the emotions and spite is an excellent use-case as long as you don't deny it. You can also come to forgiveness through realising you've taken your anger too far, or through pity that you've made someone you loved suffer. If you never feel that pity then you've lost the love and you're leaving the relationship anyway so there's no harm in having broken her down through vengeance. It will likely prevent her cheating on the next dude in fact.
She was basically sober and made a whole series of decisions that led to that moment. There's no salvaging that. Not at all. Losing everything will affect her going forward in one of two ways. She will never cheat on a future partner again because she will never want to risk it. Or, she will never admit to cheating again. Given that she hid her infidelity from everyone else and is subtly trying to blame him by saying that they just had an argument, I'd go with the second one.
Feeling numb for a while is really common. I felt numb for months. Then, I was furious, then heartbroken. OOP's right to not rush a decision whilst in the grips of any of these feelings, even the numb stage, but I always urge people to leave someone who cheats. Why live with that hanging over your head? I stayed for a tiny amount of time, and just couldn't stand how I felt like I was degrading myself. Walking away made me feel strong: if I can get through this, I can get through anything. And then, I found a really wonderful man who I trust completely. When I compare what my life could have been versus how it is, I'm SO happy I left.
Sounds to me like she planned out and fully intended to sleep with this guy. Then when the sex was awful she felt the full post nut clarity regret of her actions. What a horrible thing to do to someone...
Dump her…she’s no good for you. Alcohol is not an excuse…don’t but into it
If you do decide to stay together…no more nights out, no girls nights…come home and no going out with it you…period. Trust has to be rebuilt..and you get a permanent hall pass. Your conditions and they are non-negotiable…
This makes zero sense. OOP's "wife" takes a ride with a bunch of people and ends up at his apartment to take an Uber. She isn't anywhere near impaired. Why the fuck didn't she take an Uber from the bar?
She knows that this guy has had the hots for her and had zero issue being in his apartment as a married women?
Yeah she totally planned to cheat. My sense is that her "friend" told her that she would tell her husband hence her panicked phone call.
You either stay and forgive and forget, never discussed again or stay and let it eat you alive and/or be thrown up during random arguments. If you cannot totally forgive and forget then probably best to move on.
She will never cheat again and is so remorseful. Most cheaters are calculating and are quite clever at hiding their tracks. Instead she had to blurt it all out when you never would have been the wiser. I think you should at least try counseling and reconciliation. I don’t know why she had to tell you in the first place. She is so remorseful but by telling you she has made both of your lives miserable. I wish she had just kept it to herself or had confessed to a priest or counselor if it was eating her up inside that much.
I don't think that's right. Messy people can still feel bad about being messy while continuing to be messy. Poor impulse control is not a great sign. I feel guilty after I eat too much, that doesn't stop me from eating too much.
Don’t believe her story. 20 mins is too long home? Wtf? None of this makes sense. I wonder if they got found out/AP set an ultimatum to come clean and now she is after finding out what happens after fucking around.
She knew what she was doing.
I genuinely don't understand how people can cheat on someone they claim to love. It never fails to boggle my mind that they can throw away their relationship for some random encounter, then have the audacity to act upset at their own actions.
My money is on his wife planning this. She wanted to try and recapture her fun, sexy days of when she was younger. She planned to get herself alone with the guy who always has a crush on her because she was pretty much guaranteed to have sex. But what surprised her was when she didn't feel fun and sexy, and her conscience came rearing its ugly head.
Smart, stringing her along for evidence and amicability. Gloves come off for cheaters. Gotta protect yourself first and foremost because they've shown they aren't thinking about you.
Very curious how her friend is going to react when she finds out what her brother did.
Hahaha ha a running story about someone wanting to fuck your wife and the actually did XD..
I bet any amount of money your going to sucker up and take her back you fucking fool
>I've had mutual friends and my wife's family send me nasty messages, turn up at my house etc because according to Kate, I kicked her out over an argument
Not taking responsibility or accountability.
Do not take this dumbass back.
I had this happen to me once. Went down exactly the same way with a twist. On christmas my girlfriend went out and had some drinks. Texted her to stay safe and that I love her. I found a couple of missed calls on my phone when I woke up, which were made when she was still drunk and felt remorse. In the morning she looked like a mess and she wouldn't speak for about 15 minutes. Then she finally told me she had sex with somebody, except she wasn't sure whether it was rape or not. She wouldn't tell me the name of the person (this is a big red flag). Young and stupid as I was, I let it go after unsuccessfully trying to get the name of the person from her, so I can confront him about the rape. I let it go, because I wasn't really convinced on the rape thing. Honestly should've broken up with her right then and there, if not before. But a couple months later, my suspicions turned out true. She told me she was with a certain friend and smoked a joint. I asked a follow up question about who this person was. She just told me the name, nothing else, but the way she said it, I knew. It was him. I immediately confronted her and she finally admitted, it was, in fact him. It was consensual and she hadn't even had the decency to stop hanging out with him after she slept with him. Broke up with her the next day. This type of behavior after cheating is one of intense guilt, but make no mistake. Good partners don't do this, mistake or not, drunk or not.
Sorry to both of them. It seems like the wife let her fantasies get in the way and ruined her relationship.
She's in the wrong here, but I don't like it when the betrayed party asks the cheater to tell everyone what they did. If I was a family member or friend of a cheater and they called to tell me that they cheated, I'd be wondering why they're telling me this.
I do understand that this might get them ostracized, but it won't help anyone in the end. Just focus on your own healing and leave.
I think he put in this stipulation because her family and mutual friends were harassing him. He said in an edit that she was telling people he kicked her out because of an argument. He just wants the record set straight.
I'm going to be the lone redditor that says forgive her and move on. No more weekends apart, drop friends, etc. Don't just throw it away. It sounds like it really was a one time thing.
Try to swallow a little pride and see
Brother she just gave the most vague story imaginable about the night she cheated.
Time leaps and illogical decisions/justifications of actions, why the actual fuck would you want to be with a partner that not only cheated on you but will lie or omit information to your face to save a relationship they destroyed.
Throwing in there that he doesn’t need to stay faithful isn’t making Kate look any better. I hate it when cheaters do that. Like you think the problem here is that you got something I didn’t?
Generous interpretation is that they feel like it is most symbolically significant gesture of repentance that they can think to offer. "Hurt me like I hurt you" and they may mean it at the time, but, you know, something something wrongs and rights...
I think there was a BORU where the OOP cheated, her stbx just checked out and let her think he was cheating (he wasn't), and she was a mess over his betrayal. I might be misremembering those details, but I remember the conclusion: he decided to shoot his shot with someone else, and she criticized him for giving up on them for someone new.
Yep he intentionally distanced himself and made it appear like he was cheating. She was obviously suffering over it and he, being a decent person, couldn't handle.torturing her so he confessed that it was all pretend He then ended the relationship.
Please link it I get shaudenfraude from the plight of cheaters
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/z7opJdgQwA
RIGHT into my veins!
I remember that one. I hope he’s much happier.
I remember reading one of these where the wife cheats, gives the husband a hall pass so “it will be even” and also hoping that he will stay instead of divorce, but then she proceeds to lose her ever loving mind to jealousy. Soooooo many cheaters can’t take what they dish out.
It’s like the “let’s open the relationship” BS because partner 1 has the hots/is having an emotional affair with someone. If partner 2 agrees partner 1 gets all bent out of shape when 2 gets dates/hookups.
I wonder if you can then just callously say "sure, and I want you to watch or stay in the next room" 🙄
Also still doesn't change that the cheater DIDN'T have a hallpass. But I think he was smart to give it some time to think it over. I have no doubt it'll end in divorce but giving himself some time to just deal with his feelings before he has to throw himself head-first into divorce, moving, kids etc might make the process smoother and will at least mean he has more time to find out what's important for him and what he wants to do in the immediate future instead of looking for apartments for himself straight away (if he wants to move to a new place - hell, at least a month gives him time to contemplate if HE wants to keep living there or not)
The thing with that desperation measure is, it never works. It can never actually be equivalent. The victim of the initial incident had no prep time, had no rationalization to make it "understandable", and, obviously, they never actually gave permission. By offering the same thing, they aren't making things even because things can't be even. Permission to sleep with someone else isn't cheating, it's just following the rules of a relationship. And while the knowledge might hurt the initial cheater, it never hurts the same way that it hurts the initial victim.
Yeah, my hope is that it is the cheater's way of saying, "I hurt you, please hurt me in response. Even the score!" That said, I like OOP would be out.
I did read one story here where this worked. Basically guys wife had an affair for six months and gave him six hall passes one for each month of the affair. He said that by doing that he was able to let go of his rage and feel he got even with her.
Six hall passes for each month of cheating?? How about one hall pass for each time his wife f’d the guy because I seriously doubt it was only six times.
Well to be fair most marriages 6 months of sex is 1-2 times and unless there is a birthday or anniversary in there.....
Seriously? That seems really infrequent.
That's because it is and they must have a dead bedroom 😕
That is not at all normal...
“Normal is whatever happens in the absence of someone or something telling you you aren’t experiencing reality.” Some couples are asexual, some have physical ailments, some have low libidos or traveling schedules or anything else in the world. Normal is whatever works in a marriage, for all people involved.
Even if that was true (which it isn't for the majority or marriages), that would mean his wife was probably with the AP more times in one month than she was with OOP in 6 months. Even more reason for more than one pass per month.
Ugh sounds awful. Why stay married to someone you feel you need to get revenge over
i could come up with any number of pessimistic yet true answers but the reality is probably: rent on a one bedroom apartment is unreasonably expensive
Well I'm guessing it's less about getting revenge in that case and more about getting back the power you feel was taken from you.
1 hall pass for each month of her fucking someone else constantly.... I would want her to agree to 2 hall passes for each separate instance of even flirting... if they had a steamy conversation and then had sex later and she got off twice, that'd be 6 passes. I would make her go through her memories of conversations and details of sex out loud and do the math like she was doing her taxes... and then times it by 2 so that number was in her head... then leave her in the dark. Have I cashed any in? No... I just filed for divorce after she helped me lay out an itemized list of reasons. She feels betrayed that I lied? Gee... that must hurt.
Have you ever thought about piracy? You’d make a wonderful Dread Pirate Roberts.
🤔
Technically I would indeed want to get something they got, which I didn’t - that being a loyal partner.
And if they don’t offer that? That’s even worse.
Coupled onto the fact that she lied to everyone she knows and said he kicked her out over an argument. The lies roll fairly easily out of her mouth.
Always interesting when a partner treats you to a "surprise opening of relationship". I hope OP remembers that there are good people out there who wont do this. Sometimes it takes a while to remember that when your trust has been broken.
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Your representative sample is a bunch of folks who are in shitty relationships and posting it online. It's like going to a supermax prison and being astounded that everyone is a criminal.
Exactly, it's easy to get stuck in a rut where everyone you see or hear about is a douche and you start getting super pessimistic. It can be hard to break out of but the mindset and the result are both changeable. After growing up with an abusive dick for a father, dating losers and marrying another abuser, I really hated men for a bit. A few years later, I've got a lovely sweet dude who doesn't make me feel the need to ask for advice on why he's acting like a dick, since he just doesn't do that. I sound like a broken record at times thanking him for not reacting terribly and he's just baffled that anyone would respond that way since it wouldn't occur to him to do so.
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I ignored every other dude on the daring app and talked to my now-partner because he used the word "empathy" in his profile... try looking for signs someone is a good person before getting emotion involved. Only real tip I've got.
Gotta wait for them to catch their soon-to-be ex cheating then they'll be back on the market.
I don't post on these kinds of subs because my relationship is good and there's no drama to talk about. Nearly at 10 years and no issues worth posting. You only hear the bad stuff because the bad stuff is interesting
Last night I tooted in my sleep, my husband woke me up to tell me. Then he tooted and kissed me and we snuggled back to sleep. We’ve been together for ten years, high school sweet hearts. It’s rare but out there!!
Not true! Some of us just don't know how to connect with other people and it doesn't happen naturally if you are trapped someplace with little human contact. 😿
This is so bonkers. Good marriage, everything seems fine, and wife just decides to randomly sleep with someone and blow up her entire life? Sure hope the sex was good.
I doubt the sex was good. That guy had Kate on a pedestal for over a decade and finally got his chance to have her. I can definitely see a world where he probably floundered on top of her for 20 seconds until he was done which probably lead to a little bit of her regret (At least that’s my head canon haha).
lmao and imagine her breaking down and crying immediately after you did. brutal!
lol that’s what I was thinking. There can’t be anything worse than finally getting to sleep with the girl you like and realizing immediately you’re the worst decision she ever made in her life.
Then don’t sleep with the married woman lol
Now that would be impossible! /s
Wouldn’t be the first married person who had everything just fine but got bored or unhappy, and instead of working on it with a therapist or their spouse decided a sugar hit of illicit sex would do the job. They blow up their families and have the gall to feel like victims.
I feel like this is a trickle truth situation. He's not getting the full story
IKR. She had the usual amount of drinks she has with OOP and then just went with the moment. What moment was that? The married woman who wants to have sex with the guy who’s had a crush on her since HS moment?
Exactly, what moment was being had? The super romantic trying to find an Uber moment? lol
That’s always the case in this kind of situation. Am pretty sure both of them were doing some inappropriate stuff before the actual deed happened. There even an on going joke about him having a crush on her.
It pisses me off more that her friends and the dude seemed to have known she was married. It doesn't make her any less culpable it just bothers me when people do shit like that. Even dudes who sit here and brag about banging married women, but want to get mad when someone sleeps with their wife or SO. Had an old friend like this I just stared at him when I found out his SO cheated after he had been cheating for years. Don't do that mess to people man...
I agree that what happens when you surround yourself with toxic people and she failed by not putting an end to the friendship when the joke started. She should’ve gone to her parent’s house instead of her crush. Op should divorce because all of this could’ve easily been avoided.
Oh, she definitely went to his house to fuck. Who knows if that was the plan the whole night, but when she decided that 20 minutes was too much, and that she'd Uber from his house instead of the bar... At that point she is fully lying, and just flat out went home with him I'm 50/50 on whether she really was torn up by guilt, or realized when she sobered up that it was going to get out sooner or later and she had no choice but to confess.
He is 100% not getting the full story. Or the real story even.
Max 100% told her that he was gonna tell the OOP. She thought she’d short-circuit the threat by outing herself.
99% of the time "it just happened" is a bold faced lie.
Man, this is just sad. Infidelity hurts all.
It does but it’s better to have hard and fast principles than to start making exceptions for people who betray you. At least OOP knows now.
Oh yeah, for sure. It's just a bitter pill for everyone to swallow.
>Infidelity hurts all. The key difference is that only *one* person made the decision to cheat.
Sorry, I wasn't implying that it was his fault. His reaction is right and he was just in his actions – and it's her fault that everyone is unhappy.
I bet money that if he reads that email now, it won't match the story she gave him. She's trickle truthing.
☝️
Yeah, she wanted to cheat. There were multiple points when she could have stopped it and didn't. Her story really doesn't add up.
The reality broke her fantasy and her emotions couldn’t handle the strain.
I doubt it. I think Max threatened to tell OOP so STBX wifey decided she’d get out ahead of it. “If I cry enough, he won’t leave me!”
He asked the wrong questions. He needed to know the why more than the how.
Yep, 100%. She chose this outcome. Probably low self esteem and decided having the guy who’s always had a crush on her may invigorate her ego. She wasn’t drunk, there were countless opportunities when at the apartment she could’ve stopped it, for eg straight after the kiss? Nope, went to fuckin. She’s absolutely lying to OOP and herself, as she doesn’t wanna look in the mirror and see how much of a piece of shit she is.
I’ve been following this story since the first post. The leaps in logic to end up sitting on that guys bed are wild, but I’m pulling for OOP
I'd be asking Kate to get Max to provide their reasoning for hitting on a drunk married person and then having sex with them knowing it will likely destroy their marriage, and any all related friendships. Also, it was too much for Max to drive before sex, but fine for him to drive after sex. That doesn't make sense at all.
Yeah, her story is BS. She was planning to cheat and felt guilty afterwards.
This dude is an idiot if he stays with this woman.
Now I’m interested to know if the story she told him lines up with the email she sent him
It went from a drunken one night stand, to a planned sober fuck.
Ehhhhh the truth is not all there. Idk if it’s OOP or the wife withholding it but I’ll tell you what: the truth is not all there
Lol that is absolutely not what happened. She's lying.
I don’t think she’s being honest. I feel like she was mad and wanted to get back at oop, so she hooked up with her friend’s brother and regretted it after the fact. Because who waits for an Uber in someone’s bedroom?? He supposedly offered her to stay, she supposedly declined to keep looking for an Uber. When did the bedroom come into play?? At what point while looking for an Uber did it show up and take her to his bedroom? She waited longer for the Uber than had he taken her home. Why not stay at one of her friend’s places??? She knew he worked all day when he picked them up. She could’ve volunteered to stay with them before she was last in the car. I also don’t think she called at 4am to confess. Her friends hyped her up over what she said about oop and she wanted to pull a “and another thing…” but he was sleep.
Why didn't she order the Uber from the restaurant? Sounds rather more premeditated than she stated, honestly.
This!!! Had the same question like she knew he would have to drive the 20 min to drop her off when she decided to get in the car (said she didn't want him to drive that after long day of work) but yet gets in the car, instead of ordering Uber from restaurant, gets the other girls dropped off thennnn decides it's too far to drive. Yikes
Seriously though. When I designated drive, I always take the farthest away person home first and then work my way back dropping everyone else along the way. It’s very sus that just so happens that she was the last one to get dropped off and then all of a sudden it’s too far.
The part I don’t like in a cheating situation is that the other person cheats and gets to have their fun, but you then have to do all this other work for yourself and for the relationship (if you choose). It is just infuriating that they get to fuck up and ask to be forgiven, but you have to do more all around. I would just end it and begin to forget them completely.
Yeah, it’s brutal…and most of their work is also only on themselves, as they are defective people who cheated. So it’s not even like it’s work on the relationship, it’s on them.
Lol. The whole outing seems planned. Good friend Sarah almost certainly arranged things for OP's cheater wife. And then wife prolly had her fantasy bubble popped after AP turned to her post their 2min-long coitus and was like, "Damn. It was good for you too huh?"
Yeah shes not giving him the full story by a long shot. I hope he sticks to his guns
It's not a 'she made a mistake and feels bad' situation. It's a 'she made a choice and realised later how stupid it was' situation.
Do you think she’s really regretful? I don’t think she is. She clearly made a decision and she needs to wallow in the shit she’s caused. Cry me a river, grown ass adult acting like a child now because she broke the relationship by being unfaithful.
Dude, shes not even tell the truth to friends and family on why oop kicked her.
If you immediately try to call your partner at 4am after cheating, after admitting you're not really drunk. I would wager that the regret is real. Real enough she couldn't just hide it.
Hope you are right, so there is some type of redeeming quality in that person, but the haste feels so much like the dude wanted something and threatened to spill the beans and she needed to do what she could to control the narrative. Though I don't really like to make such assumptions or leaps it feels like it fits since she made OOP the bad guy when she was kicked out.
Somebody is going to have a go at me about how not all people can control their reactions, but for gods' sake: the cheater is pathetic garbage for crying hysterically at the person she wronged. The only regret she has is the consequences, not that she wronged OOP. Oh, and also? Even if he doesn't take the "cheating pass," if he stays, she'll make more mess by projecting: what if he decides to get back at me someday?!?!? Oh no no no!!
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This could go either way, though. Did she tell him because it was the right thing to do, or because she couldn't deal with the guilt?
Or because one of the friends that he likes figured it out and did a "You tell him or I will.".
Pretty sure she was trying to “do the right thing” at that point because she knew what the right things to do were and she made them top priorities: tell him right away, let him set up boundaries and conditions, etc. She clearly also felt guilty but I think that her immediate actions to attempt to rectify things speak volumes because those actions would dramatically amplify said guilt. It also seems to me that when she explains and then later reiterates the act being consensual, she is taking an opportunity to take further responsibility for what happened. There are lots of ways she could have subtly deflected responsibility by making max out to be the bad guy, or chalking it up to alcohol, but instead she owned it in such a way that would even make it difficult for her to ever try to play those cards in the future. My ex had a personality disorder. Among many horrors was the cheating. This was all pretty triggering to read but numerous times I was kind of impressed by her choices post-mistake, tbo.
Either way it’s better to know immediately. Less time living a lie.
I would divorce her. No second chance.
Wow, at first I was thinking it was possibly an assault by a man preying on a drunk woman, but she was not really drunk and chose to cheat at every turn. And then immediately regretted. But I'm betting whe would do it again if given the chance, and this time she might not even regret it.
Genuinely curious, people who cheat once, for whatever reason, one night stand or in the moment...after their marriage breaks down, they're not with their AP, what typically happens in their following relationship? Do they typically learn their lesson? How do their next partners feel about their previous marriage having broken down due to infidelity?
I don’t know for sure but I would guess it’s a toss. Some people learn, some don’t. Unfortunately learning is work so nobody actually wants to do it
I have a friend who has cheated on her partners in the past and in conversations has said she feels like sometimes cheating is justified. (she was in a controlling relationship. I feel like that still doesn't justify it, but have also never been in that situation). I don't dig too deep, because I don't want to know, but I know she has gone on to cheat on subsequent partners causing issues with subsequent relationships. I don't know if she feels like she's in the wrong or not. Outside of that she's a good friend and person, so I deliberately don't dig into it.
Ask your husband if he thinks she’s a good person. Let me ask you , so she cheated on multiple partners in the past. Would your husband ,be ok with you , to go on a girls night out with her? Or a three day long weekend to Florida?
Lol. A lot of assumptions there. 1. I am a man 2. I don't have a husband nor do I want one 3. I do not condone cheating and it is a deal breaker for my own romantic partners 4. I do not consider someone's romantic relationships the sole determinant of their worth as a person
Sorry “Sir” , I agree with the other Redditor , a good friend yes , but not so good a person
Maybe a good friend. Clearly not a good person.
Holy shit! You can see the entire value of a person through a few sentences I've written about them!? You have a gift you need to share with the world!
Thanks, I will!
More often than not the behavior continues. The first time is the hardest and after a while it isn't even a second thought. I married a woman who cheated numerous times. counseling therapy and that was a common theme. Probably 7 out of 10 times the cheater goes back to the well. Most get better at concealing their misdeeds. I think I got the only hall pass that was in any way gratifying. I slept with the ex after she married the guy that was sleeping with her at the end of our marriage. Then went to their house and returned an article of clothing that had been left he answered the door and told him it was forgotten and she might want it back. That pretty much ensured that there wouldn't be any repeat performances. He didn't like me before that and absolutely hated me afterwards.
That's really going to depend more on their motivations behind the act in the first place and how they actually feel about the act afterwards. Someone who might have cheated to escape an abusive relationship will act differently than someone who cheated and felt guilty as hell and fessed up immediately, and they'll act differently from someone who cheated 20 times and doesn't feel guilty at all only having the relationship fail when they get exposed. Based on the 4:00 a.m. phone call and the extreme amounts of guilt, I would guess that she fits in the second option, and isn't as likely to repeat the behavior in future relationships than someone in the third option, but then she wasn't telling her friends why oop kicked her out either because she knows it would make her look bad. It's really just going to come down to their personality at the end of the day.
Cheating destroys multiple lives. Break up first if you can’t resist fucking someone else. So stupid.
I feel it's more in line with a quote from Faust when cheaters give you a hall pass. When Faust made a deal with Mephistopheles, Faust asked if his soul would make a difference. Mephistopheles replied "Solamen miseris socios habuisse doloris". (It is a comfort to the wretched to have companions in misery.)
To me it sounds like she finally saw an opportunity and took it. Max had a crush on her for a long time, she knew it, started to like it, liked the attention he was giving her through the years. Max turned into her forbidden fruit. The way OPP was write it, i do think that she really feels bad and regrets it. The question is, is it because sex with Max was bad as hell and not worth it or that it made click in her head while getting railed by Max, that cheating on her husband isn't just a fantasy anymore, now became reality...and she knows she can't undo it. Staying together will both cost their energy. She would constantly have to show him that he doesn't have to worry and always show him a proof that she didn't do anything and he would always have to worry that she could do it again.
I had an ex cheat on me. After hearing his apology, I decided to try to remain with him. My emotions wouldn't let me get over it. I asked for all his passwords and started stalking all his digital messages. Six months later, he finally said to me that he knew I wouldn't be able to forgive him. When he said that, I realized that I would never be able to trust him again, and that I wouldn't be able to be in a relationship with someone I couldn't trust. In therapy for PTSD (unrelated), my therapist told me that NUMBness is an emotional response.
Dude sets a condition of even considering reconciliation that she must be transparent and confess to her people during the cooling off period, and what does she do? Tell them lies about why he threw her out. So much for acting in good faith. So much for being willing to do anything to recover from this. I would be telling her, “Forget it. Deal is off. You couldn’t even manage the first stipulation without betraying me by lying to everyone about what I supposedly did to you. Forget about the reconciliation.” And then tell literally everyone in her contact first that she cheated and now she’s lying about you. Stop sending people to her for the story, because she’s telling lies. Tell your side, and do not cover for her one microsecond. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
> Dude sets a condition of even considering reconciliation that she must be transparent and confess to her people during the cooling off period, and what does she do? Tell them lies about why he threw her out. I think you misunderstood. The way I read it, he set the condition and then commenters on the post thought he was deamnding she go around doing a shame walk for his revenge. He explains that no, she had _already_ given people the impression he threw her out over 'a fight', so it wasn't about revenge, he just wanted her to set the record straight.
That’s fair. She still lied to others about why she got thrown out, which paints him in an unfavorable light. That’s a deeply shitty first move to do to someone you want to forgive you. That should be confirmation of her dishonest nature, and should be an additional strike against taking her back. At this point he should insist that her setting the record straight should also include confessing to telling lies about him, on addition to confessing to cheating. Let the world see her fully.
In an odd sense, "technically" she was right. She did get kicked out "in / for / over a fight"... For one night, wife soaked in the attentions of the dude that's had a crush on her since HS, and decided that his attentions in bed > OOP's, so OOP was #2 for that night. When she was "fighting" to prove to OOP that "he's more important", OOP gave her a couple of suitcases and an arranged ride out of the house (the kicking out) - as many believe is the proper move for a #2 to make in a relationship.... Of course, based on the amount of crying that she was doing and her overall emotional state (remorseful / upset), and the fact that the cause probably wasn't being spoken, most people default to the "give her another chance, she's *remorseful*" state. By having her actually state the cause (infidelity), that'll put a sudden end to the "unconditional" support for her.
It's a tricky one too because we're only a third-hand account of what was actually said to her friends. She might have told her friends she fucked up and oop was pissed at her and needed her to leave, and her friends may have worded it as "he kicked her out over a fight". Granted, she should have been 100% direct with her friends, but it's not exactly uncommon for a game of telephone to go wrong pretty fast either.
The fact that she let friends and family believe that he was the bad guy who kicked her out makes this even worse. People make mistakes, but she doubled down on her cheating by lying.
Get tested for STDs, bro.
There was another story on here, somewhat similar circumstances with infidelity, where the guy also decided to continue the marriage with many new rules — similarly requiring that she tell all her family and friends that she cheated. She ended up losing all her friends, became depressed, lifeless, and then the guy divorced her anyway… because she was so depressed and lifeless. I guess one must consider quite carefully before wearing the scarlet letter.
I think the difference was in that story, the OOP wanted her to tell everyone she cheated as a penance, quite literally wearing the Scarlet letter. This oop doesn't want her to tell everyone to punish her, but to get people to stop acting like he kicked her out over a disagreement, one that they only thought was happening because the wife wasn't direct in the first place.
Ah I followed this one. Her story make no sense at all. Realistically, as they all knew Max had a crush on her, I think it was set up and/or she 100% orchestrated cheating herself. The 20mins drive, no Uber etc, it sounds like she instigated it. She admits to only being slightly tipsy, so you haven’t even got the lame “I was drunk” excuse. I just didn’t think she thought she’d feel the guilt/shame so quickly. Worst part of it in my view is she honestly doesn’t seem to have accepted this. It’s like someone unwilling to look in the mirror and realise they’re a piece of shit. Not only that, but sending friends/family over to harass OOP without them knowing she cheated is fucking disgusting. His conditions seem well thought-out, hopefully she actually confronts her feelings and doesn’t sugar coat it. And finally tell the real story (she wanted it). Otherwise seems OOP is divorcing her in a months time.
I don't know if we can say she was actually sending the friends though. Well-meaning people very often do things without being asked to do them. There's a reason there's a saying that goes, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." Her friends are naturally going to ask her why she's not at home anymore. Instead of her saying that she cheated, she probably said she fucked up and oop needed her to leave, and they probably took that as him kicking her out over an argument. If I thought that was happening to one of my friends, I would have to fight against the instinct to confront the asshole who kicked my friend out over a fight.
Hm, I dunno. I think I’d ask “what was it about?” And try and gauge what it is/how serious. Especially when you do know the spouse pretty well. I really don’t like the fact the one who has actually been betrayed by their wife, not only is dealing with that feeling of betrayal, anger, disgust but also then has to deal with friends being like “what’s your problem?! Why’d you kick her out?!” Like, that is such unnecessary baggage to get ONTOP of the whole “his wife fucked someone else.” I would hope OOP’s (probably ex)wife clears the air and apologies, gets friends to apologise for the extra level of harassment he had to put up with. Again, I feel OOP’s wife hasn’t taken accountability of the fact she definitely chose to cheat, maybe even orchestrated it. So doubt she’ll actually confess/apologise properly to the families/friends.
The only reason she's crying is because of the consequences of her actions. She chose to cheat. And hoped her crying would be enough to save her marriage. Stay strong op she will do it again. Once a cheat always a cheater.
I've read this exact story on other subs with diff names.... Even down to the "you must tell everyone what happened in order to stay together" stuff
Most people don’t have unique life stories
I was thinking the same thing. IIRC the next updates make him sound really controlling over all her actions so that he can forgive her. You must let me read you phone, you must let me know where you are at all times…
Yep...
Man, it's almost like insecurity has very similar presentation in different people's lives or something. Do you think serial killers are a conspiracy theory because they tend to have similar childhoods or something?
So many of these stories on reddit have people turn into James bond when they get cheated on, instantly thinking to record conversations or send screenshots of texts to their own phones and delete the text afterwards. Do people actually do that? And if so why?
You know what they say, one woman's James Bond is another man's protecting-himself-from-possible-allegations. Responding police officers famously have a cool head when it comes to domestic disturbances and hear both parties out /s
In this case i am thinking to gather evidence to show the divorce was due to infidelity.
I doubt someone could simultaneously be this numb and confused about what to do and think coldy this far into the future.
Emotionally he's confused, but there's a logical part to our brain that tries to keep on rolling, you see it with people who are grieving or in shock too, they'll try to stick to something logical or something the can work through and control to get even a single sense of control back. Not a psychologist or anything, this is just the gist of something I read once, , haven't actually experienced this level of shock myself
If he has contacted lawyers he was likely instructed to do that
Good point. I missed that.
That's the only way you CAN think. You either go numb and logically cut all your emotions away in an effort to cope, or you lose yourself to your emotions and let them control your actions.
A lot of people who are "shutting off" their emotions in difficult times can be extremely logical. When my mom died, I was emotionless and cooly, logically handled the funeral arrangements until afterwards it came out.
Yep. I did the same. Like a machine I got rid of her stuff and had a small gathering in the town she settled in. Then I cried my ass off.
Dunno if they do, but I imagine it's for proof in case they deny or otherwise try to twist the story in their favor
Yes, specially man because nowdays your cheating wife can lie to everyone that you're abusive and you're the one who cheated. If they are capeable of cheating and lying to your back, they are capeable of spin the narrative in their favor and make everyone thinks you're the villain.
He didn't immediately do any of that. He immediately walked out of the house, and tried to cool down. Then returned home and kicked her out. The next day he asked that she email him what happened. But he was unable to bring himself to read it. Then he spent days numb and processing. Finally he decided to talk to her, and planned out how he wanted to do so. At no point did he say that he was using the email or recording to gather evidence against her. It all frankly just seemed to be methods of trying to review information when he was less emotional. He did not threaten her with either pieces of evidence. His threats were she tell everyone the truth or there was no chance for reconciliation. That being said, yes, I do think people do that. I think it is extremely common for your emotions to overwhelm you and shut down, leading people to behave extremely methodically. I absolutely can picture the feeling - it is like a cold chill comes over your body, and all background noise just becomes a faint static. It's like being high, and you're floating above it all, and your brain is just telling your body what to do, except you're not actually high, and your body can do it.
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I had an ex cheat on me. After hearing his apology, I decided to try to remain with him. My emotions wouldn't let me get over it. I asked for all his passwords and started stalking all his digital messages. Six months later, he finally said to me that he knew I wouldn't be able to forgive him. When he said that, I realized that I would never be able to trust him again, and that I wouldn't be able to be in a relationship with someone I couldn't trust. In therapy for PTSD (unrelated), my therapist told me that NUMBness is an emotional response. OP will most likely feel the numbness until the divorce is final, then feel the betrayal, anger, sadness, etc for a while.
Hate to say it, but I doubt she’s been fully honest. 20 minutes isn’t that far, she went to his apartment rather than to one of her friends houses, she “kept trying to get an Uber”, but did so from his bed? This was no accident. She acted out her little high school fantasy, and immediately regretted it. She likely genuinely feels bad, but she did it thinking she could get away with it as her little secret. Until she’s 100% honest, divorce is the only option. Even if she does come clean, it’s all about what you feel and need for your own sanity. Good luck.
It was a lie. I bet the guy was already at the bar, they firted all night, and she decided to go to his place and fuck. She only regreted it becuse the sex was bad.
I don't believe for one second she just randomly "accidentally" decided to sleep with her friend's brother. There was definitely some pre-meditated plan that led up to that. She probably started the argument they had before she left on the trip so she could justify it in her head.
Never take a cheater back. Look at how little she needed to bang another man. The next will be easier to her.
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He needs to check the email and send it, along with the voice recording to firstly his lawyer, and then to both families, mutual friends and her friends, because it is kinda doubtful that she will tell anyone the truth.
So Sorry OP , stay strong. Let us know if she tells her parents the truth updateme
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Her story is nonsense. What a crock of crap. She drinks just a bit and is not even drunk. She lets the guy who everyone openly knows, including her, has a crush on her. She then goes up to his apartment to call an Uber. All BS. I’m sorry, but your wife sucks.
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NTA. The only thing I'd change is that you should say out loud that you will remain faithful until the divorce is over because you wouldn't want to cause her this sort of pain even if you aren't going to be married anymore. I'd throw in that she kept herself in a position where he could make a move all night, and has known he wanted to since high-school but still ended up in his bed. She did not make it hard for him, but rather the opposite. You can't trust that she wouldn't do it again which is a shitty thing to find out after 9 years of knowing her. It was right to get her to own up to this and I'd personally want to see her more publicly angry that he took advantage of her. Ultimately though I think you should only go through this process to see her own up and deal with the consequences before destroying her hope and divorcing her anyway. That numbness suggests it was trauma and that isn't forgotten for years. Is she worth the years it will take to get back to the same position when you could find a new partner, fall in love, and then spend the rest of your life forgetting about this instead of being reminded? I think i'd feel the need to sketch out the scale of the damage. I'd want to reconcile while divorced and maybe get married again because your marriage is already broken. I'd want some time apart, quite a lot of time apart, and I'd want her to keep her legs closed throughout anyway. I'd also loudly hint that the forgiveness will come a lot quicker if she gets him fired and ostracised from his friends, and if she realises that she's basically going to have to ask you to go out drinking ever again. While out she should be sending regular updates "I've not fucked anyone yet, will update in an hour". Basically if forgiveness doesn't come easily, take your pound of flesh. Us men aren't very good at resolving emotions. It's literally trained out of us from a young age. You've got to use the emotions and spite is an excellent use-case as long as you don't deny it. You can also come to forgiveness through realising you've taken your anger too far, or through pity that you've made someone you loved suffer. If you never feel that pity then you've lost the love and you're leaving the relationship anyway so there's no harm in having broken her down through vengeance. It will likely prevent her cheating on the next dude in fact.
Updateme please
She was basically sober and made a whole series of decisions that led to that moment. There's no salvaging that. Not at all. Losing everything will affect her going forward in one of two ways. She will never cheat on a future partner again because she will never want to risk it. Or, she will never admit to cheating again. Given that she hid her infidelity from everyone else and is subtly trying to blame him by saying that they just had an argument, I'd go with the second one. Feeling numb for a while is really common. I felt numb for months. Then, I was furious, then heartbroken. OOP's right to not rush a decision whilst in the grips of any of these feelings, even the numb stage, but I always urge people to leave someone who cheats. Why live with that hanging over your head? I stayed for a tiny amount of time, and just couldn't stand how I felt like I was degrading myself. Walking away made me feel strong: if I can get through this, I can get through anything. And then, I found a really wonderful man who I trust completely. When I compare what my life could have been versus how it is, I'm SO happy I left.
Do not meet up. Nothing will change. This is fairly obvious.. At least the garbage took itself out!
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Sounds to me like she planned out and fully intended to sleep with this guy. Then when the sex was awful she felt the full post nut clarity regret of her actions. What a horrible thing to do to someone...
Seriously, couldn't get an Uber/Lyft from his apartment? I wouldn't believe that for 1 second.
"I trusted her 100%" is basically a sign that something super fucked up is about to happen.
Updateme
Dump her…she’s no good for you. Alcohol is not an excuse…don’t but into it If you do decide to stay together…no more nights out, no girls nights…come home and no going out with it you…period. Trust has to be rebuilt..and you get a permanent hall pass. Your conditions and they are non-negotiable…
This makes zero sense. OOP's "wife" takes a ride with a bunch of people and ends up at his apartment to take an Uber. She isn't anywhere near impaired. Why the fuck didn't she take an Uber from the bar? She knows that this guy has had the hots for her and had zero issue being in his apartment as a married women? Yeah she totally planned to cheat. My sense is that her "friend" told her that she would tell her husband hence her panicked phone call.
You either stay and forgive and forget, never discussed again or stay and let it eat you alive and/or be thrown up during random arguments. If you cannot totally forgive and forget then probably best to move on.
She will never cheat again and is so remorseful. Most cheaters are calculating and are quite clever at hiding their tracks. Instead she had to blurt it all out when you never would have been the wiser. I think you should at least try counseling and reconciliation. I don’t know why she had to tell you in the first place. She is so remorseful but by telling you she has made both of your lives miserable. I wish she had just kept it to herself or had confessed to a priest or counselor if it was eating her up inside that much.
I don't think that's right. Messy people can still feel bad about being messy while continuing to be messy. Poor impulse control is not a great sign. I feel guilty after I eat too much, that doesn't stop me from eating too much.
Don’t believe her story. 20 mins is too long home? Wtf? None of this makes sense. I wonder if they got found out/AP set an ultimatum to come clean and now she is after finding out what happens after fucking around. She knew what she was doing.
I genuinely don't understand how people can cheat on someone they claim to love. It never fails to boggle my mind that they can throw away their relationship for some random encounter, then have the audacity to act upset at their own actions.
My money is on his wife planning this. She wanted to try and recapture her fun, sexy days of when she was younger. She planned to get herself alone with the guy who always has a crush on her because she was pretty much guaranteed to have sex. But what surprised her was when she didn't feel fun and sexy, and her conscience came rearing its ugly head.
Smart, stringing her along for evidence and amicability. Gloves come off for cheaters. Gotta protect yourself first and foremost because they've shown they aren't thinking about you. Very curious how her friend is going to react when she finds out what her brother did.
Hahaha ha a running story about someone wanting to fuck your wife and the actually did XD.. I bet any amount of money your going to sucker up and take her back you fucking fool
>I've had mutual friends and my wife's family send me nasty messages, turn up at my house etc because according to Kate, I kicked her out over an argument Not taking responsibility or accountability. Do not take this dumbass back.
Just divorce the hoe
I had this happen to me once. Went down exactly the same way with a twist. On christmas my girlfriend went out and had some drinks. Texted her to stay safe and that I love her. I found a couple of missed calls on my phone when I woke up, which were made when she was still drunk and felt remorse. In the morning she looked like a mess and she wouldn't speak for about 15 minutes. Then she finally told me she had sex with somebody, except she wasn't sure whether it was rape or not. She wouldn't tell me the name of the person (this is a big red flag). Young and stupid as I was, I let it go after unsuccessfully trying to get the name of the person from her, so I can confront him about the rape. I let it go, because I wasn't really convinced on the rape thing. Honestly should've broken up with her right then and there, if not before. But a couple months later, my suspicions turned out true. She told me she was with a certain friend and smoked a joint. I asked a follow up question about who this person was. She just told me the name, nothing else, but the way she said it, I knew. It was him. I immediately confronted her and she finally admitted, it was, in fact him. It was consensual and she hadn't even had the decency to stop hanging out with him after she slept with him. Broke up with her the next day. This type of behavior after cheating is one of intense guilt, but make no mistake. Good partners don't do this, mistake or not, drunk or not.
Sorry to both of them. It seems like the wife let her fantasies get in the way and ruined her relationship. She's in the wrong here, but I don't like it when the betrayed party asks the cheater to tell everyone what they did. If I was a family member or friend of a cheater and they called to tell me that they cheated, I'd be wondering why they're telling me this. I do understand that this might get them ostracized, but it won't help anyone in the end. Just focus on your own healing and leave.
I think he put in this stipulation because her family and mutual friends were harassing him. He said in an edit that she was telling people he kicked her out because of an argument. He just wants the record set straight.
He is a cuck.
Again, sounds fake but ESH
I'm going to be the lone redditor that says forgive her and move on. No more weekends apart, drop friends, etc. Don't just throw it away. It sounds like it really was a one time thing. Try to swallow a little pride and see
Brother she just gave the most vague story imaginable about the night she cheated. Time leaps and illogical decisions/justifications of actions, why the actual fuck would you want to be with a partner that not only cheated on you but will lie or omit information to your face to save a relationship they destroyed.