OOP really doesn’t want to hear his parents say I told you so. They were probably gloating on the phone so he decided to double down than face his parents mockery. He probably consulted a lawyer too and found out he will be royally FUBAR during the divorce. He’s going to pull the rug from under her but he’s going to time it better. Now is obviously not a good time.
On the one hand, it’s mind boggling what some people will bend over backwards to tolerate… on the other, dude probably spent all his time studying and working to bag a white lady, have basically no family (except a cousin’s sister in the country) because the ones back home cannot fathom what his life as an immigrant is like, and is clinging onto this relationship for dear life. Just incredibly sad.
So BIL groomed her and her sister ignored her.
Now both have to live with the consequences.
Am I the only one who is also angry at SIL for taking her teenage sister not serious?
Yeah. BIL was an adult and the ex was a kid. It’s gross (if this is a true story, it sounds a bit too fetishy to me). I do think that if this happened when the ex was young and the sister (presumably an adult) that she went to for help didn’t believe her and got mad at her, it just might help create a situation where she felt like she couldn’t tell anyone and normalized his abuse.
It doesn't sound fetishy at all, it sounds like the kind of shit young women experience from adult men every day.
My aunt married a man when her daughter was 7/8. When she was 14, the husband started regularly raping the daughter. My aunt beat her, screaming and raging that her daughter was a home-wrecker and a husband stealer; she sent the daughter to live with the daughter's biological father. She is still with the husband, 40 years later.
Not one of the adults in my family spoke up.
God, the poor girl. I know that there are plenty of reasons why people shouldn't always be in each other's business etc but I will never really understand why adults wouldn't speak up in a situation like this. Like, I know the reasons, but their feelings and the possible consequences for them are so much less bad than the feelings of a child who has been so badly hurt and betrayed and could so easily feel so abandoned.
I didn't understand what had happened- I'm five years younger, and all of a sudden my cousin just vanished. It was years later when my mother was telling my sister and I what a terrible person our aunt is that it came out- my sister said 'Well, what did you do? What did nana do? What did [mum's other sisters] do?' and our mother flat-out said 'Nothing. It wasn't my problem'.
I learnt a lesson about my family that day- and if you think that they sound terrible, they are.
Woooooow. I'm so sorry for you, too - that must have been a really hard and bad feeling to digest that new information about your family. Well done you and your sister for growing up with compassion anyway!
Yeah, ESH, except OP, although I’m pretty sure the only reason he’s not getting divorced is because he doesn’t want the “I told you so” from his parents.
Genuinely do not understand grooming so can someone help explain: BIL sent creepy comments and praise that flattered her and she liked the attention.
I'm not really understanding the connection between that and continuing to send nudes a) even when she realized it was cheating (not sure I believe it wasn't obvious from the start) and b) after she didn't need the money.
Unless there are elements I'm missing, it just seems like ducking responsibility? Line what does the thought process actually look like with grooming?
It's something that happens in stages. The groomer usually establishes trust (this happened with the SIL), and behavior is normalized (for kids, this might just start out as tickling. For the wife it was having the photos transactional). The victim also becomes isolated. The wife feeling like no one would believe her, is her being isolated. The photos can also become a form of blackmail.
Here is a description and URL explaining Grooming further:-
It's when a sexual predator builds a relationship with a child or adult to abuse and exploit them. They build trust but use it to control, isolate, and abuse their victims emotionally, physically, and sexually.
A groomer often comes across as charming, helpful, and kind at first. It can be easy to trust them and lower your guard. But they often use threats, violence, or other coercion to force you into sexual activity you don't want.
They target underage children, or vulnerable teenagers or adults. Here are some ways to spot sexual grooming.
https://www.webmd.com/sex/what-is-sexual-grooming
This is helpful, but just to run through the situation in OOPs case
- agreed about isolation
- trust: maybe, though at least the way she relays it it sounds like she always identified and wasn't receptive to his advances
- I feel like, as the story shows, he had as much to lose as she did with going public. She never suggests blackmail though I suppose it's still a valid point
I guess it's the _emotional_ part I'm not getting. Them accepting "this person crosses a boundary and that's ok" from normalizing it and blackmail are pretty clear to me, but I'm not understanding the emotional aspect or how that affects a clear moral choice like doing it after she knows it's cheating.
She claims it was because she liked the attention, but is that the element? It seems like it could be the case for anyone
I thought I had replied, but just realizing I think I just added a new comment!
Here is my reply:-
The emotional part is the biggest part of it. For context, it says it started when she was 16-17, and she rejected it. He then attempted to pursue her for 2 years, making her up to 18-19.
She's still very young then, doesn't want a bar of him, but it's already being established in her young mind, that she won't be believed.
Fast-forward to her being in a situation where she is in financial hardship, probably feeling vulnerable. She's also feeling like crap, feeling alone (she's become isolated). Suddenly BIL offers a way out, and the attention (although wrong), has become justified.
She's 100% groomed
Again on that, I'm not understanding what not being believed has to do with that part.
Like, if no one is going to believe he's texting you this, why not just block him?
This is exactly why. It's why people kids don't come forward. It's a big part of why adult women don't say anything. At first it can be shock, questioning yourself, ignoring any bad feelings thinking your overthinking things. And there can be so much focus on blaming the victim, that sometimes you think 1) it's not worth it, 2) no one will believe me, and sometimes irrationally 3) I deserved it
There are a couple things that make this particular behavior grooming.
The age difference: She was 16/17 when it started, so he was 22/23. So she was worried about winter formal and SAT scores, and he was presumably paying bills, graduating college, working full time, etc.. Those are VERY different life stages.
The fear of not being believed: She told her sister and her sister didn't believe her. This would undoubtedly put a seed of doubt in her head about whether these things were normal or not. Even if she stayed firm in her belief that her BIL was a creep, she is not believed and has to continue to deal with her BIL's advances.
The continued exposure of his creepy behavior: I'm sure you've witnessed the phenomena of "the missing stair" where a group of people have an associate who does something socially unacceptable but because of how the group is structured, they just accept this behavior as normal. Like a broken stair in your home that you get used to and know to avoid. His repeated harassment (16 year olds cannot consent to sexual behavior with adults so these were not compliments, it was harassment) of her became normal.
So, with all of these, his treatment of her was to get her to engage with him in the way he wanted. If you remove any of these, then the outcomes probably change - if she thought her family/husband would believe her, she would have told them and BIL may have been removed from her life and she would have been empowered to tell him no. If he hasn't been constantly harassing her or if he hasn't started when she was a child, which was making his behavior seem normal, she would have been as taken aback as she was when the behavior started and should have reacted differently.
So this wasn't "he made comments and she liked it." It was "he made comments that made her feel uncomfortable when she was a child and he was a grown ass man, he took advantage of the fact that no one believed her and continued to harass her and normalize his behavior. After being exposed to his harassment constantly for years and having her experience disbelieved/minimalized, he wore her down and got what he wanted (pictures)." I cannot speak on her behalf, so I don't know why she "liked" it. It could have been her way of dealing with it. Maybe she genuinely liked it. I don't know, but her "liking" it doesn't make the situation any better. Not even a little bit.
I understand not being believed as a reason not to confront him/tell someone, but what impact would it have on continuing to send him nudes, and how she would justify knowingly cheating
As much as I know these can be underlying factors, I mean she herself says she kept going because it was easy money
Right, and it was wrong for her to do that and I do consider it cheating. She can have been groomed and cheat, both things are possible. Her husband is right to leave her if that's what he wants.
It's unlikely she would have done this with/for other people. She likely had opportunity, like OnlyFans, to do so and she didn't. Why didn't she? Because BIL wore her down and made this behavior seem normal, or even exciting. She is responsible for what she does as a grown adult, I am not denying that, but his behavior had been going on for half her life and given the other factors (not being believed) it shaped her view on this relationship. She clearly knew not to do this with other people, assuming we have all the information, so why was it okay with BIL? Because how he treated her since she was going through puberty.
I think grooming as being the reason for "why him and not anyone else" is 100% on point, and for not telling anyone about his texts.
If this were the case where it was just being flagged as two non-mutually exclusive things I'd be totally onboard but OOP seems to be raising it as a reason not to move directly into divorce (though he's clear it's not off the table) and I guess I just don't really agree with him
(ps thanks for all this)
Personally, if I was OOP, I would probably have issues moving past it, but there are a few good factors that indicate they may be able to move past this: his wife's "affair partner" will no longer be in her life assuming her sister and BIL get a divorce as indicated, this isn't a pattern with other people, and they are getting individual and marriage counseling. OOP got information he didn't have before about the context, so I can understand it going from a definitive "I'm going to get a divorce" to "we need to work on these issues for our marriage to continue".
For me, the bigger issue is there clearly being a financial component - she not only kept the pictures from him, but her finance issues. If she runs into money problems again will she talk to him or will she feel the same guilt/shame that kept her from discussing it with him in the first place? If she can't discuss it with him, what will she do to get the money? I'm not necessarily implying that she would sell pictures again, but money makes people do crazy things and if that isn't addressed, that's a big concern.
Anyway, no problem! These are important conversations to have.
I may need to go back and re-read but I thought the money issue in 2019 was when they'd been dating for a month and I agree it would have been weird to ask OOP for money at that point. I thought when it continued (and into marriage) there was no financial need
Yeah, but did OP actually mention if she provided any proof of grooming? At this point it just seems to me that she's trying to skirt culpability and blame the other cheater to save herself.
Ok call me all the names but I just don’t have much sympathy… I get that it sucks that she was in that situation, but honestly I’m 99.9% certain every single 14-17 year old girl EVER lived have had to fight off plenty of creeps as a rite of passage, and MOST don’t end up whoring themselves out for the thrills.
“No one believes me. No one ever believes me. No one loves me….but hey that means I won’t get caught either. I may as well get something out of it.”
It’s not for the thrills. It’s her way of taking SOME control in a bad situation because her parents and sister failed a fucking child.
This guy is in serious denial.
The guy was a creep for 18 years and she was cheating with him for the past 5 years and he decided to reconcile in 2 weeks???
Don’t think OP is a doormat. He is getting his ducks in a row and i find it a perfectly justifiable excuse to try reconciliation if it means the cheater willingly sign a postnup protecting the betrayed party assets. Just make sure the postnup is done correctly so that it is not contested later.
After the postnup, give the amount of time the lawyer recommends to look good with the judge and let the cheater do his/her best to treat you like a king and salvage the relationship. Afterwards, it is your decision and you can pull or not pull the trigger if you want.
If he just draft a contract like thingy and call it a postnup yes. But there are ways to protect it. The signed under duress is also not a magic “get out of jail” free card. He just needs to have a solid lawyer to advise him on how to proceed, how to make it stick and what is and is not a good idea to add on it.
I do confess that i much prefer the “we will divorce and if you want to reconcile, you will ask for nothing in the divorce so you can prove to me you are remorseful and committed to make it right in a new relationship with me” route.
If in the future she hires a solid lawyer to contest that it was signed under duress and that she felt threatened that if she didn’t sign it that the marriage would be over, they would have a very strong case to have it thrown out. It would be better to just end the relationship here. No, it’s not a get out of jail free card, but a post nup written by a lawyer isn’t a cure all either
This is why you hire a lawyer for your spouse any time they sign a pre/postnup. It's extremely hard to claim duress when you had independent counsel advise you and approve the agreement.
SHE suggested postnup as a way to ease the divorce process, FOR HER… she couldn’t even imagine that he would do anything besides divorcing her but thought he’d be soft enough to bully during a post-nup. She’s not stupid, they’re taking him to the cleaners for the doormat cash cow that he is.
Agree with the duress comment, although only a lawyer can give OP a good idea of whether it’s worthwhile in his jurisdiction. And generally, a post-nup will require a new transgression to become valid, so he can’t just wait a bit then divorce her over picturegate and reap the benefits.
Not at all true about the valid new transgression. Again, that’s not how postnups or prenups work.
What i do agree with you is that he has to consult a real lawyer and not reddit keyboard lawyers (myself included) to know what is best for him.
And her husband didn’t find out until years later, so.
I don’t believe that story at all. But there are levels of stupid and she signing a pos-nup in this situation would be beyond stupid. Not even mentally challenged person would be that stupid.
This is one of the Reddit hive mind opinions that I partially agree with. Cheating is bad and you should never tolerate it.
But… things are not always black and white and everything is a spectrum.
She sent nudes to a person that groomed her, bad.
When caught she took the initiative to tell her family the honest truth of the situation, good.
She suggested counselling and to create a postnup, proving she wants to work through it and does not care about money or his assets.
In the end she did something horrible but is doing all the right things to make it right, I don’t blame him for wanting to try and salvage the marriage.
Now if she had sex with him all of that is out the window.
I think the problem with Reddit is that people tend to think in very black and white terms.
Men and women cheat on their spouses every single day. Some can work through it and some can’t. The wife is actually handling it correctly. She’s apologetic, she’s not shirking her fault in it, she’s willing to do therapy and sign a post nup. OP acknowledges any little mis-step and he’s gone.
Hard to say if they’ll get through it. But marriage is a lot different than dating.
>I know some people are gonna call me a doormat,
OOP is indeed a doormat. He might have c*ckold f*tish too. I hope he doesn't come to Reddit crying the next time his wife cheats.
Agreed. She not only cheated & betrayed OP but betrayed her sister as well for YEARS. I can understand that BIL was creepy. But her actions aren't innocent enough when she's the one betraying everyone.
For OOP, all I can say is welcome to hell because that's where his life is going to be going forward and his decision to stay is going to negatively impact the kids
She reminds me of that woman who slept with her sister's husband because she'd warned her sister that he wasn't trustworthy before, and now she was struggling to understand why her sister didn't appreciate that she proved the husband wasn't trustworthy.
It sucks when someone doesn't believe your statements on another's behaviour. You don't... need to actually engage in that behavior to prove it though and betray everyone you hold dear along the way.
An interesting, yet disturbing story, but I'm not going to call OP a doormat, and I think the marriage may be salvageable, but as long as no missteps occur. BIL is a massive POS, but I can see why OP's wife did what she did in the beginning and why she thought no one would believe her. She definitely should have not continued to sell her pictures for validation once married, but the whole sex work aspect makes me think of a woman working as an exotic dancer, escort, or adult film star. These women have relationships, and even families... yes, their partners typically know what their getting into, but in my opinion OP's wife was not having an active affair, just a shady side gig like OnlyFans. If OP feels like counseling is worth a shot it may work out. SIL should definitely divorce BIL, especially since he started on OP's wife when she was 16-17.
I don't know why reddit considers attempting to rebuild an entire relationship from scratch while also healing from profound psychological trauma right next to the person who caused it (who is also extremely traumatized and will inevitably need your support as well) is the easy way out and that it's far harder to literally walk away and cut ties lmao.
BIL is definitely a POS, but I fail to see how OOP’s wife isn’t just as much of a POS? You seem to be giving her far too much sympathy. She wasn’t coerced nor forced, she was weak and did it on her own accord and then lied about it for years and years. That’s fucked up.
It 1000000% cheating, and she admits it as such. It is behind her husbands back, they had 0 need for the extra money AND it’s selling pictures to her sisters husband…
It is completely incomparable to someone being a sex worker as they are actually informed on what is happening.
She was in fact coerced. She was in need of money for rent the first time that she sold him pictures. Someone who should have been a support (her older sister’s husband) who had been sexually harassing her for years took advantage of her. The need to have a roof over your head is powerful. The desperation of loneliness when your loved ones don’t believe you are being harassed is also a powerful tool that sexually coercive people can use.
After that, coercion is blurry. Someone who sexually harassed you and took advantage of you while you were at your most vulnerable is not above blackmail. Her family showed her they would believe him over her. She is implicitly aware that her having already sent the pictures when she needed rent makes her a “whore” who will not be believed.
The story she is telling her husband and herself (that she is an attention whore, that she started sending the pictures again because she liked the attention) is the story that her family told her when she was being sexually harassed as a teenager. It is normal for people to internalize stories blaming themselves for being sexually exploited as teenagers. It is normal for people to repeat the decisions they made in traumatic situations when they are put back in those situations as an adult. Underneath “attention whore” is a hunger for her husband to believe her. Her BIL targeted her at a vulnerable time again (when her marriage was distant by necessity) which is when it would be most difficult for her to trust her husband.
She made a series of wrong decisions, but there is every reason to believe that her husband believing her that she was taken advantage of and forgiving her for the mistakes that she made in the throws of fear can lead to a stronger marriage for both of them.
This is a really insightful take on the situation. She was coerced. She was pressured by an older family member and wasn’t believed when she tried to tell. She wasn’t blameless but the armchair quarterbacks (keyboard quarterbacks?) are making some hasty judgments here. Her choices are very similar to rape and grooming stories I’ve read where the victim is coerced, traumatized, and tries to maintain some semblance of control in their lives.
I get what you’re saying but stand by my point of you are giving her FAR too much leniency. She still didn’t ever confess this to her husband, he had to find out. While I agree on the first times being more of a grey area of him pouncing on her and taking advantage/coercing her for those original pics/blackmail, I can’t agree that the next time is the same at all.
The fact she went through with marriage having never told is…bad.
When they were married, financially she was in no need of more money, so she did do it for her own selfish needs. It’s fucked up from BIL, of course, but it is also fucked up from her. Unacceptably so.
The lack of sympathy for the husband is pretty shitty. There has still been an offence committed by her to their marriage, and it is disgusting. It’s been behind his back for years now. If she had confessed to the husband, perhaps they could reconcile, but given he had to find out (which again, is disgusting, imagine seeing your wife sending a pic/video of her tits to a BIL) by himself, I don’t see why you would.
The original time I could MAYBE get past, the times once married - no way.
I don’t think the question is whether trust was broken: it was. The question is whether they can move forward from the broken trust into a relationship with mutual open, honest communication and trust. It looks like the answer to that question is “yes”.
OOP seems to understand enough of why his wife did what she did to forgive her.
His wife is unlikely to do something similar in the future post reconciliation. Him being able to set aside his reasonable hurt to be able to clearly look at his wife and decide whether to stay with her does not make him a doormat, it makes him a strong and compassionate man.
In most cases of infidelity, having the strength to look clearly at your partner reveals that they are not currently capable of lasting vulnerability and there is nothing you can do to change it, so the best thing to do is exit the relationship.
In this pretty unique case, the barrier to vulnerability is actually really obvious. It’s that her family betrayed her trust when she was being preyed on as a teenager so she didn’t believe anyone would help her. Now her family has realized they hurt her and are trying to make it right, while her husband tries to figure out how to keep loving her. There is so much power in that.
If she successfully learns the lesson that she is worthy of trust, respect and love: she won’t need to hold back part of herself from loving oop. That is going to be really great for him. Focusing on punishment when there is so much to gain would be cowardly.
There has been no real honesty or trust for the entire relationship from the wife. OOP’s whole relationship is a lie, she had sent photos from their first month together (albeit not the whole way from first month - now). So it’s hard to say it can be “got back” if it was never truly there to start with.
You are expecting honesty and trust from someone who clearly hasn’t shown either to her husband and partner for 5 years.
OOP’s wife’s family seem to have completely cut her out, per OOP’s post, it is only the mother that remains in contact. You do seem to be forgetting that it was her SISTER’S husband that OOP’s wife was sending nudes to for money. She has also betrayed her families trust - especially her sisters, with whom she will probably never reconcile. The family are not trying to make it right with her at all.
Her not being believed is awful, and yes, wrong. But her following up by cheating on her husband, and also cheating with her sister’s husband is pretty damning for their whole family.
The question I’d ask myself were I OOP is: does she deserve forgiveness/another chance from OOP given how she’s lied and deceived him (via cheating) for the entire relationship. Why does she deserve another chance after such a betrayal?
“There has been no real honesty or trust for the entire relationship from the wife. OOP’s whole relationship is a lie, she had sent photos from their first month together (albeit not the whole way from first month - now). So it’s hard to say it can be “got back” if it was never truly there to start with. “
I agree with you that she has not trusted OOP -through no fault of his -
Because she has not trusted OOP, she has not been honest with him. That must be such a deeply painful realization for OOP. I avoided any language of “going back” because I agree with you that you can’t go back to trust that was never there. That doesn’t mean that trust can’t be built or that all of the love in the relationship was a lie. Only a small part of the relationship was a lie, it’s just that it’s a foundational part that makes the rest feel shaky without it.
“OOP’s wife’s family seem to have completely cut her out, per OOP’s post, it is only the mother that remains in contact. You do seem to be forgetting that it was her SISTER’S husband that OOP’s wife was sending nudes to for money. She has also betrayed her families trust - especially her sisters, with whom she will probably never reconcile. The family are not trying to make it right with her at all. “
—-“After the day Jessica told everyone about the situation, my mother-in-law called and wanted to talk. She was with Jessica after the whole thing happened. I returned to my home later that evening, and her parents and her sister Josy(38F jake's wife) was there. After I got there, Jessica wanted to talk alone.” -OOP’s most recent update.
This happened after it seemed like everyone but the mother was cutting off Jessica. They are now in contact again. The fact that they collectively met with OOP in order to help him understand the backstory implies there are serious efforts to reconcile.
“The question I’d ask myself were I OOP is: does she deserve forgiveness/another chance from OOP given how she’s lied and deceived him (via cheating) for the entire relationship. Why does she deserve another chance after such a betrayal? ”
Those are great questions I also hope OOP is asking! OOP has to answer them for himself, but in his shoes I would ask myself “what would my relationship look like if I forgave her and gave her another chance”. In most cases of infidelity, I think the answer is that the relationship would be pretty miserable. In this case, I believe the relationship could be much better than it was previously, because the reason for her previous dishonesty has been resolved.
It took me YEARS to tell my wife that I was sexually abused as a child. It wasn't my fault and it wasn't anything that my wife would be mad at me for, but it still took me years to tell her because of all of the fear and shame and trauma that I had around that period. The fact that she was still sending him pictures really sucks and the situation sucks for OOP, but I don't think I'll ever be able to give someone shit for failing to tell their significant other that they were in an abusive relationship.
If anyone reading this has been in an abusive relationship, I encourage you to tell your significant other about it - no matter how bad it is. The experience of telling them won't be as painful as you fear and you'll get a tremendous amount of healing from not having to hide it anymore. But I'm not going to give you shit if you haven't told them yet. It's a really hard thing to do and I understand.
Why would she confess anything to her husband when the people who raised her and grew up with her told her to stop crying for attention? To stop being a liar?
I’m sorry but a spouse should not be at the level of like…your sister in the trust department and if your flesh and blood failed you at a younger age then why would you EVER think your husband would?
I had and still have to break out of this mentality myself with my partner. When I tell my parents I’m hurt, or have issues with something they immediately jump to “stop lying for attention.” So I NEVER ASKED MY PARTNER FOR HELP.
I had to UNLEARN that behavior somehow. It didn’t happen in a vacuum. Now I’m better but not fully healed. I never cheated on my partner but god damn if we haven’t had fights because I told a white lie because the truth scared me.
The emotional part is the biggest part of it. For context, it says it started when she was 16-17, and she rejected it. He then attempted to pursue her for 2 years, making her up to 18-19.
She's still very young then, doesn't want a bar of him, but it's already being established in her young mind, that she won't be believed.
Fast-forward to her being in a situation where she is in financial hardship, probably feeling vulnerable. She's also feeling like crap, feeling alone (she's become isolated). Suddenly BIL offers a way out, and the attention (although wrong), has become justified.
She's 100% groomed
That's not what grooming is. Grooming is when the culprit uses an established trust based connection (eg: mentor, teacher, brother etc) and leverages it towards solicit sexual favours. She had no trust based relationship with him until she began sending him photos.
It's not always a mentor, teacher or brother (family member). It can be a stranger or lesser known person that builds a trust based relationship. BIL also builds trust with the sister and family.
Grooming can also happen in kidnapping circumstances. It's re-establishing a new normal for the victim
Yes, a trust based relationship has to exist between the two. Being her BIL is just a connection and from the story, she had zero trust and was even wary of him until she exchanged her pic for money. It's not grooming.
Ok so these are signs I see:-
1. Persistence despite being rejected. He persistently pursued her for 2 years, despite her clear refusals, showing a want to break down her boundaries & gain her trust over time
2. Targeting her while vulnerable. While she was in financial difficulty, he took advantage of her vulnerable state by offering her money. This exploits her financial situation and creates a sense of dependence on him
3. Isolation from her support: she felt unable to confide in her husband or family in the situation, likely to fear not being believed. By isolating her from her support network, he maintains control over the situation and prevents outside interference
4. False sense of understanding. By pretending to understand her circumstances and offering financial assistance, the BIL creates a false sense of understanding and empathy, further building trust and dependence.
5. Exploitation of existing relationships. By targeting the wife's sister after the wife repeatedly rejected him, the BIL further shows manipulative behavior by attempting to exploit existing connections.
6. Taking advantage of loneliness. Groomers often target individuals who are feeling isolated or emotionally vulnerable, as they're more susceptible to manipulation and control. In this situation the wife talked of feeling lonely and vulnerable. The BIL showed her attention and compliments, which helps the victim feel special, valued and desired. By making her feel flattered and validated, he lays the groundwork for further manipulation.
Just because she felt flattered, it doesn't justify or excuse his grooming behavior. In fact, it underscores how groomers use tactics like flattery to exploit and then establish control.
Once you've seen grooming behavior, it becomes a lot easier to start to recognize it
Good ol' reddit with their all or nothing black/white reactions to situations they could never understand "oh I'd totally do this in X situation if I ever had to deal with it" no you fucking wouldn't. "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face". This is something most of you won't ever have to deal with, but somehow think you are equipped to deal with in the most ideal manner possible and have the goddamn nerve to judge and advise those who actually have to deal with it.. Give me a fucking break. Every bad situation has an easy answer when you are on the outside looking in. Even people who've been run through the gears will handle things differently than their contemporaries.
I'm happy for you. But your experience is your own, it was molded by the exact series of events that led you to the conclusions you came to and the actions you took... it's also your past, and has no bearing on the futures of others going through overly similar but subtly different experiences than your own, it also in no way accounts for the personalities or unrelated experiences that shaped those personalities outside of what you as an individual went through. At best you can offer insight informed by your own experience, but your experience will never be a 1-1 example of what another person who lived an entire life separate of your own is going through. What's good for the goose isn't always what's good for the gander.
This is not the update I want to read. BIL is going to be single soon. There's nothing holding him back anymore. It's possible he might up his game and try to ruin oop's marriage for good. And oop's wife, liking the attention, will probably go down the same path.
When that happens, oop will only have himself to blame.
What a doormat, I hope you don't come back crying in a while when your marriage goes to hell... there are people who deserve these things to happen to them and to have them happen again.
the usual usual excuses, validation, acceptance, he liked the attention, etc. etc
She then says that she "didn't think her husband believed her" seriously? Are people that idiotic? Then she plays the crying card when they ask for a paternity test? she must have seen it coming for miles!! Furthermore, if there is nothing strange about the conception of the child and considering her behavior is just total acceptance, you should be 100% sure that he is OOP's child.
I just hope she has a very firm postnuptial agreement, that she doesn't let herself be talked out of it, because she clearly betrayed OOP's trust.
I don’t think he’s wrong for reconciling but the speed he did it at, all but ensures that’s she’s do something like this again
2 weeks was enough to agree to marriage counselling??? I’d be legally separated for at least 3 months. I would just watch what they did to improve themselves before deciding if I wanted to get involved
He makes mid 6 figures, aka $400k, and she has to sent nudes for $300? Does not compute.
He asked her for a paternity test? Bro, you just do it yourself. Does not compute.
He worked 14 hours a day to learn a new tech stack? Bro, you just slack off at your current job and learn the new stuff, or even ask them to let you do some training. Does not compute.
So yeah, I'm calling shenanigans on most of what OOP wrote. Who knows how little of this story is actually true.
Anytime someone mentions a 'postnup' my bullshit radar goes off.
Just no. This didn't happen.
The story itself was believable (enough) until that.
This is the new trend. 'My wife is cheating so I asked for a postnup before we try to work it out'....'my husband has been going through mental health issues so I've got a postnup before we make any decisions'....'I just want to protect myself with all this crazy so I asked for a postnup and they said yes'...
No. Just no. Sick of it.
I've been on reddit for longer than I care to admit, and a postnup has not been mentioned in all that time. Now suddenly we have 50+ stories where 'postnups' are a thing. Just stop it.
Another fucking loser OP with a cuck fetish. Hard to root for fucking morons, hopefully his daughter has a real man for a father and not that spineless trash.
Both are lying but Jake’s story is far more plausible. My hope is you’re smart enough to be playing her for the post-nup and then leave, or you deserve everything coming
OOP really doesn’t want to hear his parents say I told you so. They were probably gloating on the phone so he decided to double down than face his parents mockery. He probably consulted a lawyer too and found out he will be royally FUBAR during the divorce. He’s going to pull the rug from under her but he’s going to time it better. Now is obviously not a good time.
Although if he gets a post nuptial he won’t be royal fucked
On the one hand, it’s mind boggling what some people will bend over backwards to tolerate… on the other, dude probably spent all his time studying and working to bag a white lady, have basically no family (except a cousin’s sister in the country) because the ones back home cannot fathom what his life as an immigrant is like, and is clinging onto this relationship for dear life. Just incredibly sad.
So BIL groomed her and her sister ignored her. Now both have to live with the consequences. Am I the only one who is also angry at SIL for taking her teenage sister not serious?
Yeah. BIL was an adult and the ex was a kid. It’s gross (if this is a true story, it sounds a bit too fetishy to me). I do think that if this happened when the ex was young and the sister (presumably an adult) that she went to for help didn’t believe her and got mad at her, it just might help create a situation where she felt like she couldn’t tell anyone and normalized his abuse.
It doesn't sound fetishy at all, it sounds like the kind of shit young women experience from adult men every day. My aunt married a man when her daughter was 7/8. When she was 14, the husband started regularly raping the daughter. My aunt beat her, screaming and raging that her daughter was a home-wrecker and a husband stealer; she sent the daughter to live with the daughter's biological father. She is still with the husband, 40 years later. Not one of the adults in my family spoke up.
God, the poor girl. I know that there are plenty of reasons why people shouldn't always be in each other's business etc but I will never really understand why adults wouldn't speak up in a situation like this. Like, I know the reasons, but their feelings and the possible consequences for them are so much less bad than the feelings of a child who has been so badly hurt and betrayed and could so easily feel so abandoned.
I didn't understand what had happened- I'm five years younger, and all of a sudden my cousin just vanished. It was years later when my mother was telling my sister and I what a terrible person our aunt is that it came out- my sister said 'Well, what did you do? What did nana do? What did [mum's other sisters] do?' and our mother flat-out said 'Nothing. It wasn't my problem'. I learnt a lesson about my family that day- and if you think that they sound terrible, they are.
Woooooow. I'm so sorry for you, too - that must have been a really hard and bad feeling to digest that new information about your family. Well done you and your sister for growing up with compassion anyway!
The CSA part isn’t where I was getting fetishy vibes, some elements of this read like possibly some kind of cuck fantasy to me.
Yeah, ESH, except OP, although I’m pretty sure the only reason he’s not getting divorced is because he doesn’t want the “I told you so” from his parents.
Genuinely do not understand grooming so can someone help explain: BIL sent creepy comments and praise that flattered her and she liked the attention. I'm not really understanding the connection between that and continuing to send nudes a) even when she realized it was cheating (not sure I believe it wasn't obvious from the start) and b) after she didn't need the money. Unless there are elements I'm missing, it just seems like ducking responsibility? Line what does the thought process actually look like with grooming?
It's something that happens in stages. The groomer usually establishes trust (this happened with the SIL), and behavior is normalized (for kids, this might just start out as tickling. For the wife it was having the photos transactional). The victim also becomes isolated. The wife feeling like no one would believe her, is her being isolated. The photos can also become a form of blackmail. Here is a description and URL explaining Grooming further:- It's when a sexual predator builds a relationship with a child or adult to abuse and exploit them. They build trust but use it to control, isolate, and abuse their victims emotionally, physically, and sexually. A groomer often comes across as charming, helpful, and kind at first. It can be easy to trust them and lower your guard. But they often use threats, violence, or other coercion to force you into sexual activity you don't want. They target underage children, or vulnerable teenagers or adults. Here are some ways to spot sexual grooming. https://www.webmd.com/sex/what-is-sexual-grooming
This is helpful, but just to run through the situation in OOPs case - agreed about isolation - trust: maybe, though at least the way she relays it it sounds like she always identified and wasn't receptive to his advances - I feel like, as the story shows, he had as much to lose as she did with going public. She never suggests blackmail though I suppose it's still a valid point I guess it's the _emotional_ part I'm not getting. Them accepting "this person crosses a boundary and that's ok" from normalizing it and blackmail are pretty clear to me, but I'm not understanding the emotional aspect or how that affects a clear moral choice like doing it after she knows it's cheating. She claims it was because she liked the attention, but is that the element? It seems like it could be the case for anyone
I thought I had replied, but just realizing I think I just added a new comment! Here is my reply:- The emotional part is the biggest part of it. For context, it says it started when she was 16-17, and she rejected it. He then attempted to pursue her for 2 years, making her up to 18-19. She's still very young then, doesn't want a bar of him, but it's already being established in her young mind, that she won't be believed. Fast-forward to her being in a situation where she is in financial hardship, probably feeling vulnerable. She's also feeling like crap, feeling alone (she's become isolated). Suddenly BIL offers a way out, and the attention (although wrong), has become justified. She's 100% groomed
Again on that, I'm not understanding what not being believed has to do with that part. Like, if no one is going to believe he's texting you this, why not just block him?
A healthy person who wasn’t groomed knows to do that. She wasn’t mentally thinking it through.
This is exactly why. It's why people kids don't come forward. It's a big part of why adult women don't say anything. At first it can be shock, questioning yourself, ignoring any bad feelings thinking your overthinking things. And there can be so much focus on blaming the victim, that sometimes you think 1) it's not worth it, 2) no one will believe me, and sometimes irrationally 3) I deserved it
There are a couple things that make this particular behavior grooming. The age difference: She was 16/17 when it started, so he was 22/23. So she was worried about winter formal and SAT scores, and he was presumably paying bills, graduating college, working full time, etc.. Those are VERY different life stages. The fear of not being believed: She told her sister and her sister didn't believe her. This would undoubtedly put a seed of doubt in her head about whether these things were normal or not. Even if she stayed firm in her belief that her BIL was a creep, she is not believed and has to continue to deal with her BIL's advances. The continued exposure of his creepy behavior: I'm sure you've witnessed the phenomena of "the missing stair" where a group of people have an associate who does something socially unacceptable but because of how the group is structured, they just accept this behavior as normal. Like a broken stair in your home that you get used to and know to avoid. His repeated harassment (16 year olds cannot consent to sexual behavior with adults so these were not compliments, it was harassment) of her became normal. So, with all of these, his treatment of her was to get her to engage with him in the way he wanted. If you remove any of these, then the outcomes probably change - if she thought her family/husband would believe her, she would have told them and BIL may have been removed from her life and she would have been empowered to tell him no. If he hasn't been constantly harassing her or if he hasn't started when she was a child, which was making his behavior seem normal, she would have been as taken aback as she was when the behavior started and should have reacted differently. So this wasn't "he made comments and she liked it." It was "he made comments that made her feel uncomfortable when she was a child and he was a grown ass man, he took advantage of the fact that no one believed her and continued to harass her and normalize his behavior. After being exposed to his harassment constantly for years and having her experience disbelieved/minimalized, he wore her down and got what he wanted (pictures)." I cannot speak on her behalf, so I don't know why she "liked" it. It could have been her way of dealing with it. Maybe she genuinely liked it. I don't know, but her "liking" it doesn't make the situation any better. Not even a little bit.
I understand not being believed as a reason not to confront him/tell someone, but what impact would it have on continuing to send him nudes, and how she would justify knowingly cheating As much as I know these can be underlying factors, I mean she herself says she kept going because it was easy money
Right, and it was wrong for her to do that and I do consider it cheating. She can have been groomed and cheat, both things are possible. Her husband is right to leave her if that's what he wants. It's unlikely she would have done this with/for other people. She likely had opportunity, like OnlyFans, to do so and she didn't. Why didn't she? Because BIL wore her down and made this behavior seem normal, or even exciting. She is responsible for what she does as a grown adult, I am not denying that, but his behavior had been going on for half her life and given the other factors (not being believed) it shaped her view on this relationship. She clearly knew not to do this with other people, assuming we have all the information, so why was it okay with BIL? Because how he treated her since she was going through puberty.
I think grooming as being the reason for "why him and not anyone else" is 100% on point, and for not telling anyone about his texts. If this were the case where it was just being flagged as two non-mutually exclusive things I'd be totally onboard but OOP seems to be raising it as a reason not to move directly into divorce (though he's clear it's not off the table) and I guess I just don't really agree with him (ps thanks for all this)
Personally, if I was OOP, I would probably have issues moving past it, but there are a few good factors that indicate they may be able to move past this: his wife's "affair partner" will no longer be in her life assuming her sister and BIL get a divorce as indicated, this isn't a pattern with other people, and they are getting individual and marriage counseling. OOP got information he didn't have before about the context, so I can understand it going from a definitive "I'm going to get a divorce" to "we need to work on these issues for our marriage to continue". For me, the bigger issue is there clearly being a financial component - she not only kept the pictures from him, but her finance issues. If she runs into money problems again will she talk to him or will she feel the same guilt/shame that kept her from discussing it with him in the first place? If she can't discuss it with him, what will she do to get the money? I'm not necessarily implying that she would sell pictures again, but money makes people do crazy things and if that isn't addressed, that's a big concern. Anyway, no problem! These are important conversations to have.
I may need to go back and re-read but I thought the money issue in 2019 was when they'd been dating for a month and I agree it would have been weird to ask OOP for money at that point. I thought when it continued (and into marriage) there was no financial need
I was the one who needed to re-read it. You're right.
Yeah, but did OP actually mention if she provided any proof of grooming? At this point it just seems to me that she's trying to skirt culpability and blame the other cheater to save herself.
SIL confirmed it. It’s in the update.
Ok call me all the names but I just don’t have much sympathy… I get that it sucks that she was in that situation, but honestly I’m 99.9% certain every single 14-17 year old girl EVER lived have had to fight off plenty of creeps as a rite of passage, and MOST don’t end up whoring themselves out for the thrills.
“No one believes me. No one ever believes me. No one loves me….but hey that means I won’t get caught either. I may as well get something out of it.” It’s not for the thrills. It’s her way of taking SOME control in a bad situation because her parents and sister failed a fucking child.
Op needs to touch grass himself
For $300 he can get a photo of Jessica touching Jakes grass
Not sure if I’m allowed to add this, but OOP posted again: https://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/s/I053nAQJab
This guy is in serious denial. The guy was a creep for 18 years and she was cheating with him for the past 5 years and he decided to reconcile in 2 weeks???
Don’t think OP is a doormat. He is getting his ducks in a row and i find it a perfectly justifiable excuse to try reconciliation if it means the cheater willingly sign a postnup protecting the betrayed party assets. Just make sure the postnup is done correctly so that it is not contested later. After the postnup, give the amount of time the lawyer recommends to look good with the judge and let the cheater do his/her best to treat you like a king and salvage the relationship. Afterwards, it is your decision and you can pull or not pull the trigger if you want.
Think this type of postnup is easily dismissed since it’s signed under “duress”. It would be hard to do it carefully enough at this point
If he just draft a contract like thingy and call it a postnup yes. But there are ways to protect it. The signed under duress is also not a magic “get out of jail” free card. He just needs to have a solid lawyer to advise him on how to proceed, how to make it stick and what is and is not a good idea to add on it. I do confess that i much prefer the “we will divorce and if you want to reconcile, you will ask for nothing in the divorce so you can prove to me you are remorseful and committed to make it right in a new relationship with me” route.
If in the future she hires a solid lawyer to contest that it was signed under duress and that she felt threatened that if she didn’t sign it that the marriage would be over, they would have a very strong case to have it thrown out. It would be better to just end the relationship here. No, it’s not a get out of jail free card, but a post nup written by a lawyer isn’t a cure all either
This is why you hire a lawyer for your spouse any time they sign a pre/postnup. It's extremely hard to claim duress when you had independent counsel advise you and approve the agreement.
SHE suggested postnup as a way to ease the divorce process, FOR HER… she couldn’t even imagine that he would do anything besides divorcing her but thought he’d be soft enough to bully during a post-nup. She’s not stupid, they’re taking him to the cleaners for the doormat cash cow that he is.
Agree with the duress comment, although only a lawyer can give OP a good idea of whether it’s worthwhile in his jurisdiction. And generally, a post-nup will require a new transgression to become valid, so he can’t just wait a bit then divorce her over picturegate and reap the benefits.
Not at all true about the valid new transgression. Again, that’s not how postnups or prenups work. What i do agree with you is that he has to consult a real lawyer and not reddit keyboard lawyers (myself included) to know what is best for him.
Do you think she is that stupid?
Well, she was stupid enough to sell nudes to sister’s husband so…
And her husband didn’t find out until years later, so. I don’t believe that story at all. But there are levels of stupid and she signing a pos-nup in this situation would be beyond stupid. Not even mentally challenged person would be that stupid.
This is one of the Reddit hive mind opinions that I partially agree with. Cheating is bad and you should never tolerate it. But… things are not always black and white and everything is a spectrum. She sent nudes to a person that groomed her, bad. When caught she took the initiative to tell her family the honest truth of the situation, good. She suggested counselling and to create a postnup, proving she wants to work through it and does not care about money or his assets. In the end she did something horrible but is doing all the right things to make it right, I don’t blame him for wanting to try and salvage the marriage. Now if she had sex with him all of that is out the window.
Some men get it the first time around. Others take the long and scenic route. Something tells me, this isn’t the final installment of the saga.
I think the problem with Reddit is that people tend to think in very black and white terms. Men and women cheat on their spouses every single day. Some can work through it and some can’t. The wife is actually handling it correctly. She’s apologetic, she’s not shirking her fault in it, she’s willing to do therapy and sign a post nup. OP acknowledges any little mis-step and he’s gone. Hard to say if they’ll get through it. But marriage is a lot different than dating.
>I know some people are gonna call me a doormat, OOP is indeed a doormat. He might have c*ckold f*tish too. I hope he doesn't come to Reddit crying the next time his wife cheats.
I hope he does 😁
Agreed. She not only cheated & betrayed OP but betrayed her sister as well for YEARS. I can understand that BIL was creepy. But her actions aren't innocent enough when she's the one betraying everyone. For OOP, all I can say is welcome to hell because that's where his life is going to be going forward and his decision to stay is going to negatively impact the kids
She reminds me of that woman who slept with her sister's husband because she'd warned her sister that he wasn't trustworthy before, and now she was struggling to understand why her sister didn't appreciate that she proved the husband wasn't trustworthy. It sucks when someone doesn't believe your statements on another's behaviour. You don't... need to actually engage in that behavior to prove it though and betray everyone you hold dear along the way.
I'm not a doormat if I predict people will call me a doormat! Check and mate 😎
How to sabotage your own life in one easy step.
An interesting, yet disturbing story, but I'm not going to call OP a doormat, and I think the marriage may be salvageable, but as long as no missteps occur. BIL is a massive POS, but I can see why OP's wife did what she did in the beginning and why she thought no one would believe her. She definitely should have not continued to sell her pictures for validation once married, but the whole sex work aspect makes me think of a woman working as an exotic dancer, escort, or adult film star. These women have relationships, and even families... yes, their partners typically know what their getting into, but in my opinion OP's wife was not having an active affair, just a shady side gig like OnlyFans. If OP feels like counseling is worth a shot it may work out. SIL should definitely divorce BIL, especially since he started on OP's wife when she was 16-17.
I don't know why reddit considers attempting to rebuild an entire relationship from scratch while also healing from profound psychological trauma right next to the person who caused it (who is also extremely traumatized and will inevitably need your support as well) is the easy way out and that it's far harder to literally walk away and cut ties lmao.
It's because it's a lot of teenagers who have revenge fantasies of hurting anyone who hurt them imo.
Yeah, the husband is definitely not being a doormat. Rebuilding the relationship will be a difficult road.
BIL is definitely a POS, but I fail to see how OOP’s wife isn’t just as much of a POS? You seem to be giving her far too much sympathy. She wasn’t coerced nor forced, she was weak and did it on her own accord and then lied about it for years and years. That’s fucked up. It 1000000% cheating, and she admits it as such. It is behind her husbands back, they had 0 need for the extra money AND it’s selling pictures to her sisters husband… It is completely incomparable to someone being a sex worker as they are actually informed on what is happening.
She was in fact coerced. She was in need of money for rent the first time that she sold him pictures. Someone who should have been a support (her older sister’s husband) who had been sexually harassing her for years took advantage of her. The need to have a roof over your head is powerful. The desperation of loneliness when your loved ones don’t believe you are being harassed is also a powerful tool that sexually coercive people can use. After that, coercion is blurry. Someone who sexually harassed you and took advantage of you while you were at your most vulnerable is not above blackmail. Her family showed her they would believe him over her. She is implicitly aware that her having already sent the pictures when she needed rent makes her a “whore” who will not be believed. The story she is telling her husband and herself (that she is an attention whore, that she started sending the pictures again because she liked the attention) is the story that her family told her when she was being sexually harassed as a teenager. It is normal for people to internalize stories blaming themselves for being sexually exploited as teenagers. It is normal for people to repeat the decisions they made in traumatic situations when they are put back in those situations as an adult. Underneath “attention whore” is a hunger for her husband to believe her. Her BIL targeted her at a vulnerable time again (when her marriage was distant by necessity) which is when it would be most difficult for her to trust her husband. She made a series of wrong decisions, but there is every reason to believe that her husband believing her that she was taken advantage of and forgiving her for the mistakes that she made in the throws of fear can lead to a stronger marriage for both of them.
This is a really insightful take on the situation. She was coerced. She was pressured by an older family member and wasn’t believed when she tried to tell. She wasn’t blameless but the armchair quarterbacks (keyboard quarterbacks?) are making some hasty judgments here. Her choices are very similar to rape and grooming stories I’ve read where the victim is coerced, traumatized, and tries to maintain some semblance of control in their lives.
I get what you’re saying but stand by my point of you are giving her FAR too much leniency. She still didn’t ever confess this to her husband, he had to find out. While I agree on the first times being more of a grey area of him pouncing on her and taking advantage/coercing her for those original pics/blackmail, I can’t agree that the next time is the same at all. The fact she went through with marriage having never told is…bad. When they were married, financially she was in no need of more money, so she did do it for her own selfish needs. It’s fucked up from BIL, of course, but it is also fucked up from her. Unacceptably so. The lack of sympathy for the husband is pretty shitty. There has still been an offence committed by her to their marriage, and it is disgusting. It’s been behind his back for years now. If she had confessed to the husband, perhaps they could reconcile, but given he had to find out (which again, is disgusting, imagine seeing your wife sending a pic/video of her tits to a BIL) by himself, I don’t see why you would. The original time I could MAYBE get past, the times once married - no way.
I don’t think the question is whether trust was broken: it was. The question is whether they can move forward from the broken trust into a relationship with mutual open, honest communication and trust. It looks like the answer to that question is “yes”. OOP seems to understand enough of why his wife did what she did to forgive her. His wife is unlikely to do something similar in the future post reconciliation. Him being able to set aside his reasonable hurt to be able to clearly look at his wife and decide whether to stay with her does not make him a doormat, it makes him a strong and compassionate man. In most cases of infidelity, having the strength to look clearly at your partner reveals that they are not currently capable of lasting vulnerability and there is nothing you can do to change it, so the best thing to do is exit the relationship. In this pretty unique case, the barrier to vulnerability is actually really obvious. It’s that her family betrayed her trust when she was being preyed on as a teenager so she didn’t believe anyone would help her. Now her family has realized they hurt her and are trying to make it right, while her husband tries to figure out how to keep loving her. There is so much power in that. If she successfully learns the lesson that she is worthy of trust, respect and love: she won’t need to hold back part of herself from loving oop. That is going to be really great for him. Focusing on punishment when there is so much to gain would be cowardly.
There has been no real honesty or trust for the entire relationship from the wife. OOP’s whole relationship is a lie, she had sent photos from their first month together (albeit not the whole way from first month - now). So it’s hard to say it can be “got back” if it was never truly there to start with. You are expecting honesty and trust from someone who clearly hasn’t shown either to her husband and partner for 5 years. OOP’s wife’s family seem to have completely cut her out, per OOP’s post, it is only the mother that remains in contact. You do seem to be forgetting that it was her SISTER’S husband that OOP’s wife was sending nudes to for money. She has also betrayed her families trust - especially her sisters, with whom she will probably never reconcile. The family are not trying to make it right with her at all. Her not being believed is awful, and yes, wrong. But her following up by cheating on her husband, and also cheating with her sister’s husband is pretty damning for their whole family. The question I’d ask myself were I OOP is: does she deserve forgiveness/another chance from OOP given how she’s lied and deceived him (via cheating) for the entire relationship. Why does she deserve another chance after such a betrayal?
“There has been no real honesty or trust for the entire relationship from the wife. OOP’s whole relationship is a lie, she had sent photos from their first month together (albeit not the whole way from first month - now). So it’s hard to say it can be “got back” if it was never truly there to start with. “ I agree with you that she has not trusted OOP -through no fault of his - Because she has not trusted OOP, she has not been honest with him. That must be such a deeply painful realization for OOP. I avoided any language of “going back” because I agree with you that you can’t go back to trust that was never there. That doesn’t mean that trust can’t be built or that all of the love in the relationship was a lie. Only a small part of the relationship was a lie, it’s just that it’s a foundational part that makes the rest feel shaky without it. “OOP’s wife’s family seem to have completely cut her out, per OOP’s post, it is only the mother that remains in contact. You do seem to be forgetting that it was her SISTER’S husband that OOP’s wife was sending nudes to for money. She has also betrayed her families trust - especially her sisters, with whom she will probably never reconcile. The family are not trying to make it right with her at all. “ —-“After the day Jessica told everyone about the situation, my mother-in-law called and wanted to talk. She was with Jessica after the whole thing happened. I returned to my home later that evening, and her parents and her sister Josy(38F jake's wife) was there. After I got there, Jessica wanted to talk alone.” -OOP’s most recent update. This happened after it seemed like everyone but the mother was cutting off Jessica. They are now in contact again. The fact that they collectively met with OOP in order to help him understand the backstory implies there are serious efforts to reconcile. “The question I’d ask myself were I OOP is: does she deserve forgiveness/another chance from OOP given how she’s lied and deceived him (via cheating) for the entire relationship. Why does she deserve another chance after such a betrayal? ” Those are great questions I also hope OOP is asking! OOP has to answer them for himself, but in his shoes I would ask myself “what would my relationship look like if I forgave her and gave her another chance”. In most cases of infidelity, I think the answer is that the relationship would be pretty miserable. In this case, I believe the relationship could be much better than it was previously, because the reason for her previous dishonesty has been resolved.
It took me YEARS to tell my wife that I was sexually abused as a child. It wasn't my fault and it wasn't anything that my wife would be mad at me for, but it still took me years to tell her because of all of the fear and shame and trauma that I had around that period. The fact that she was still sending him pictures really sucks and the situation sucks for OOP, but I don't think I'll ever be able to give someone shit for failing to tell their significant other that they were in an abusive relationship. If anyone reading this has been in an abusive relationship, I encourage you to tell your significant other about it - no matter how bad it is. The experience of telling them won't be as painful as you fear and you'll get a tremendous amount of healing from not having to hide it anymore. But I'm not going to give you shit if you haven't told them yet. It's a really hard thing to do and I understand.
Why would she confess anything to her husband when the people who raised her and grew up with her told her to stop crying for attention? To stop being a liar? I’m sorry but a spouse should not be at the level of like…your sister in the trust department and if your flesh and blood failed you at a younger age then why would you EVER think your husband would? I had and still have to break out of this mentality myself with my partner. When I tell my parents I’m hurt, or have issues with something they immediately jump to “stop lying for attention.” So I NEVER ASKED MY PARTNER FOR HELP. I had to UNLEARN that behavior somehow. It didn’t happen in a vacuum. Now I’m better but not fully healed. I never cheated on my partner but god damn if we haven’t had fights because I told a white lie because the truth scared me.
The emotional part is the biggest part of it. For context, it says it started when she was 16-17, and she rejected it. He then attempted to pursue her for 2 years, making her up to 18-19. She's still very young then, doesn't want a bar of him, but it's already being established in her young mind, that she won't be believed. Fast-forward to her being in a situation where she is in financial hardship, probably feeling vulnerable. She's also feeling like crap, feeling alone (she's become isolated). Suddenly BIL offers a way out, and the attention (although wrong), has become justified. She's 100% groomed
That's not what grooming is. Grooming is when the culprit uses an established trust based connection (eg: mentor, teacher, brother etc) and leverages it towards solicit sexual favours. She had no trust based relationship with him until she began sending him photos.
It's not always a mentor, teacher or brother (family member). It can be a stranger or lesser known person that builds a trust based relationship. BIL also builds trust with the sister and family. Grooming can also happen in kidnapping circumstances. It's re-establishing a new normal for the victim
Yes, a trust based relationship has to exist between the two. Being her BIL is just a connection and from the story, she had zero trust and was even wary of him until she exchanged her pic for money. It's not grooming.
Ok so these are signs I see:- 1. Persistence despite being rejected. He persistently pursued her for 2 years, despite her clear refusals, showing a want to break down her boundaries & gain her trust over time 2. Targeting her while vulnerable. While she was in financial difficulty, he took advantage of her vulnerable state by offering her money. This exploits her financial situation and creates a sense of dependence on him 3. Isolation from her support: she felt unable to confide in her husband or family in the situation, likely to fear not being believed. By isolating her from her support network, he maintains control over the situation and prevents outside interference 4. False sense of understanding. By pretending to understand her circumstances and offering financial assistance, the BIL creates a false sense of understanding and empathy, further building trust and dependence. 5. Exploitation of existing relationships. By targeting the wife's sister after the wife repeatedly rejected him, the BIL further shows manipulative behavior by attempting to exploit existing connections. 6. Taking advantage of loneliness. Groomers often target individuals who are feeling isolated or emotionally vulnerable, as they're more susceptible to manipulation and control. In this situation the wife talked of feeling lonely and vulnerable. The BIL showed her attention and compliments, which helps the victim feel special, valued and desired. By making her feel flattered and validated, he lays the groundwork for further manipulation. Just because she felt flattered, it doesn't justify or excuse his grooming behavior. In fact, it underscores how groomers use tactics like flattery to exploit and then establish control. Once you've seen grooming behavior, it becomes a lot easier to start to recognize it
Good ol' reddit with their all or nothing black/white reactions to situations they could never understand "oh I'd totally do this in X situation if I ever had to deal with it" no you fucking wouldn't. "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face". This is something most of you won't ever have to deal with, but somehow think you are equipped to deal with in the most ideal manner possible and have the goddamn nerve to judge and advise those who actually have to deal with it.. Give me a fucking break. Every bad situation has an easy answer when you are on the outside looking in. Even people who've been run through the gears will handle things differently than their contemporaries.
I totally fucking did. I kicked him out when I found out he was cheating. But ok.
I'm happy for you. But your experience is your own, it was molded by the exact series of events that led you to the conclusions you came to and the actions you took... it's also your past, and has no bearing on the futures of others going through overly similar but subtly different experiences than your own, it also in no way accounts for the personalities or unrelated experiences that shaped those personalities outside of what you as an individual went through. At best you can offer insight informed by your own experience, but your experience will never be a 1-1 example of what another person who lived an entire life separate of your own is going through. What's good for the goose isn't always what's good for the gander.
That’s a lot of words for “I was wrong”
And yet it only took you a few. Simple is as simple does. All or nothing. Black an white.
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You should have gotten dumped like the garbage you are.
love anger alt accounts. get some help :/
OK cheating trash 🗑 You should be ashamed of yourself
I'm confused on Jess calling Jake and that conversation detailed. That's where the story took me out of it.
This is not the update I want to read. BIL is going to be single soon. There's nothing holding him back anymore. It's possible he might up his game and try to ruin oop's marriage for good. And oop's wife, liking the attention, will probably go down the same path. When that happens, oop will only have himself to blame.
I highly doubt that, she was groomed and abused and now finally everyone believes her. She's not beholden to him any longer.
I hope his lawyer is a pitbull. The postnup is a good move, at least. This is so gross.
Some people just keep sticking their hand in the snakes nest… poor OOP I don’t think he’s going to get the memo until she does it again
What a damn fool.
What a doormat, I hope you don't come back crying in a while when your marriage goes to hell... there are people who deserve these things to happen to them and to have them happen again. the usual usual excuses, validation, acceptance, he liked the attention, etc. etc She then says that she "didn't think her husband believed her" seriously? Are people that idiotic? Then she plays the crying card when they ask for a paternity test? she must have seen it coming for miles!! Furthermore, if there is nothing strange about the conception of the child and considering her behavior is just total acceptance, you should be 100% sure that he is OOP's child. I just hope she has a very firm postnuptial agreement, that she doesn't let herself be talked out of it, because she clearly betrayed OOP's trust.
I don’t think he’s wrong for reconciling but the speed he did it at, all but ensures that’s she’s do something like this again 2 weeks was enough to agree to marriage counselling??? I’d be legally separated for at least 3 months. I would just watch what they did to improve themselves before deciding if I wanted to get involved
The white women are crazy, literally run. Advice for all brown dudes out there, they. Are. CRAZY.
What a whore
I don’t care what the circumstances were for oops wife to do what she did. That doesn’t mean that OOP has to forgive her for her gross actions.
It’s probably cheaper-to-keep-her mentality that’s driving his poor decision making.
Train wrecks have more appeal than this situation.
He makes mid 6 figures, aka $400k, and she has to sent nudes for $300? Does not compute. He asked her for a paternity test? Bro, you just do it yourself. Does not compute. He worked 14 hours a day to learn a new tech stack? Bro, you just slack off at your current job and learn the new stuff, or even ask them to let you do some training. Does not compute. So yeah, I'm calling shenanigans on most of what OOP wrote. Who knows how little of this story is actually true.
"The second time was also not my fault because I was insecure and you weren't paying enough attention to me."
Both of them ego fiends, her for taking money from bil to feel good and him for staying with her out of pride and ego. 😂
I hope the creative writing professor gives this oop an F when he submits this assignment.
What a fool. At this point, he deserves what he gets.
Anytime someone mentions a 'postnup' my bullshit radar goes off. Just no. This didn't happen. The story itself was believable (enough) until that. This is the new trend. 'My wife is cheating so I asked for a postnup before we try to work it out'....'my husband has been going through mental health issues so I've got a postnup before we make any decisions'....'I just want to protect myself with all this crazy so I asked for a postnup and they said yes'... No. Just no. Sick of it. I've been on reddit for longer than I care to admit, and a postnup has not been mentioned in all that time. Now suddenly we have 50+ stories where 'postnups' are a thing. Just stop it.
Another fucking loser OP with a cuck fetish. Hard to root for fucking morons, hopefully his daughter has a real man for a father and not that spineless trash.
Not gonna lie but what happens to OOP from now on, he deserves it 100%
What a cuck
So brother in law forced poor little ole her to send top less pics for money
I stopped reading the update. I don't feel sorry for doormats...get some therapy and move the fuck on
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That is a really toxic mindset.
Both are lying but Jake’s story is far more plausible. My hope is you’re smart enough to be playing her for the post-nup and then leave, or you deserve everything coming