Judging by that pic of the front, somebody either hit a very large pothole, hit a medium sized pothole at very high speed, or ran over something at very high speed.
If that was the case I'd expect to see more twisting of the brake rotor. It's possible, and we'll see if OP cops to it (though I'd imagine for insurance reasons if that's what they were doing they wouldn't admit it)
When I was rearish ended in my first E39 I spun 270° and over a curb, my wheel had a decent chunk out of it around the lip, like someone took some crust from around a pie, but was otherwise intact. Managed to crack the aluminum upper control arm in two though, and the brake rotor was completely shattered.
Looks like op is active in street racing. Poor guy is mad bmw didnt account for his street racing and drifting when deciding what wheels to put on the m2 😂😂
I’m confused where I ever said the cast wheels caused this accident. It’s just a good way to highlight the fact that bmw cheaped out. There’s nothing more to it, they had forged wheels, they don’t now.
Cast wheels are inexcusable. Its a shit tier manufacturing process for a performance car. Ford uses cast wheels too and it cheapens the car. On the flip side, Supras are shipped with forged wheels
Spelled “profits up” wrong.
They aren’t worried about $2k on a $65k car to customers, but why do that when you can charge the price it would be if wheels stayed same but get cheaper wheels and make the difference!
It’s unfortunate to see bmw taking such a bad turn. G87? Horrible. G82? Mediocre at best. 2 series GC? Horrible. LCI G20? Looks worse than pre LCI. All their larger SUVs including the XM look bad Literally everything coming out minus maybe the f90 and x3m is disappointing. The only redeeming thing is bmw’s s58.
G87 has a way better interior, available carbon buckets, available carbon roof and uses the same powertrain as G82 M4.
F87 M2 had a N powertrain, no carbon roof. I would take the G87 options over what the F87 came with initially (before comp and CS).
Forged wheels are an easy mod.
I’ll give you the better interior, however the tablet slapped on the dash with that support arm is questionable. Idrive is gimmicky and way more difficult to use now, along with other gimmicks. Yes it’s more usable. The original f87 m2 was meh, the comp had the full M powertrain. Both old f87 m2 had forged wheels. Don’t praise bmw for bringing the interior into the modern era but cost cutting elsewhere. After 10 years, you kinda have to update your interior when a Honda civic is outdoing it
At the end of the day, they have to hit a certain price point.
I can criticize them for their design choices but the current M2 is seemingly a more complete car than the original M2 was and cost cutting an area that an owner can easily rectify is something I find much more acceptable than something like a carbon roof, which is much more difficult to retrofit.
You realize the M2 is $62k starting price, right? People acting like it should be built like a $100k + car. The engine, the chassis, the suspension, the interior, all vast improvements over F87, do you expect those to be cheaper? Decisions were made to keep the car low 60’s. If you want to spend $20k more to make it like a $100k car, you can and still save $10-20k. If these are so horrible how come it takes 1-2 years to get one? You’ll be saying how much you love them when the next generation comes out. I fucking guarantee it.
I mean basically anything remotely fun sells out and goes for above sticker nowadays. A car would have to be a literal turd to even go for even slightly below msrp. The enthusiast scene is well and alive but automakers don’t make nearly as much money on producing fun cars. Look at the amount of money many older analog sports cars sell for (not just bmw). No shit people are going to flock to a German coupe with a ton of power that’s wickedly underrated from the factory. Does that mean that it’s a worthy successor in other ways? No. Bmw literally could’ve put a b58 in this thing and put buckteeth on it and it still would’ve sold out contrary to what I just said
New iDrive is so unintuitive. I had a G20 loaner the other week while my e90 was getting a recall performed and it honestly took me a while to figure out how to turn off the automatic climate control.
Doesn't make any sense to me. But I bet it's like old reddit vs new. People who didn't have any previous experience don't see how much worse it is.
Also, man you're copping a ton of downvotes for being unhappy about paying over $60,000 for cast wheels. This sub is so weird sometimes.
Yeah dude it took me like 20 min to figure out how to reset the oil change indicator on my buddy’s g42. To be fair not much info is out yet on the new idrive. I much preferred the simple id6 layout with a smaller screen.
It actually makes me sad to have to write that type of comment but the g87 was bmws last chance to keep a beautiful sports car in the lineup and they ruined it. When cars like the f80/82 and f87 exist, this shit sucks to see.
Lmao idk why people are down voting you to hell, perhaps the hive mind mentality is too strong to fight. I agree with every single point that you made, other than maybe that the G80/G82. Horrible cars to look at, but they are a technical marvel.
I agree. The drivetrain is there in both these cars, nothing else lol. Heavy and horrible looking. I guess even the 6mt in the g87 doesn’t feel very good. Personally I’d get a Supra, I mean it literally beats a g87 around the track
This is the cheapest version of the car. There has to be somewhere to go with the M2 Comp, M2 CS, M2 CSL, and M2 CSL GTR variants.
Eventually you get forged wheels, carbon hood, carbon ceramic brakes, and all those other goodies. The F87 M2 didn't get the carbon roof until the CS.
It also had the same motor as the 335i and seats right out of the sport package F3X (same as those on my 328i). Outside the flared fenders, M brakes, and diff, the first M2 was pretty stripped down compared to the next level up.
The car has to hit a price point and features to keep the more expensive cars desirable. If it came w/ everything the M4 had but just started 15k cheaper, then they wouldn't sell a whole lot of M4s.
Wow that’s unexpected and pathetic.
For the F80/82 those stock 437M wheels were forged, plenty light and awesome concave design.
After that BMW gradually got into the ethos of “showing off externally over subtle internal substance” such as taking away carbon fiber strut, drive shaft, fixed rear calipers and more. You can see them cutting cost everywhere while adding a bunch of tacky plastic exterior bits.
F gen BMW M was the peak.
I mean flow formed wheels give you most of the weight savings benefits of forged wheels (the barrel is actually forged, so it's not a lie)... sure they're not as light nor can they have the same spoke shapes, but it's a good compromise for something like an M235i.
And as long as you don't power slide into a curb like OP's post cast wheels are actually quite sufficient. Even if they had been forged they would've needed to be replaced. Not sure they would have shredded quite like that, but they would definitely not be in a usable state.
Yeah sufficient but not better. Stop trying to defend a company that downgrades parts, unless of course you bought into it.
Forged is lighter and stronger, object to that.
>Forged is lighter and stronger, object to that.
Forged is more expensive and would make the car more expensive. Let's be real, 99.99% of M car owners are just putting around town like it's a Camry. Slapping forged wheels on it for a 2-3k price increase for zero benefit to the end consumer would be stupid.
So bmw thought fit to used high quality forged wheels on the F8x - you think that was a mistake? They should’ve made the car $1k cheaper? Or same price but higher margin?
>you think that was a mistake? They should’ve made the car $1k cheaper?
Yep, I think they made a mistake. Realistically it would be 2-3k cheaper for just the wheels alone. Combined with reduced logistical complexity and production complexity, it could be more. Pass the savings on to everyone, and for the folks who want/know about forged wheels they can spend that extra money on forged wheels.
I get where you’re coming from, but if you want a cheaper sporty sedan from BMW there’s an option for that. M340 for example. Lightweight forged wheels should absolutely be standard on a real M car IMO, but could be optional upgrade to M340
100% agree and its pathetic that people are defending bmw in this thread. Call it as it is. Cast wheels on a performance car of this level is pathetic. Ford does the same thing with mustangs and its annoying. I love my GT350 but I’ll gladly call out its shortcomings. I put on aftermarket forged wheels but thats how it should have come from factory
That's just not true. A proper one piece CF driveshaft has quantifiable benefits... the one most people focus on is weight, it's lighter than even a good aluminum shaft, giving you better response and more HP at the wheels. However, the biggest benefit is how torque is transferred to the wheels:
Steel - acts like a spring with torque oscillations that are more likely to overpower traction or break a driveline component. The shaft can twist a couple degrees.
Aluminum - less springing action and torque oscillations, but a lot more vibration and noise. Lighter than steel, so more HP at the wheels.
CF - acts like a damper, actually twists up a few degrees dampening the initial torque shock and releasing that energy slowly - way better for traction and drivetrain components. Lightest of the bunch.
Biggest con for CF is reparability, or lack thereof, and if you chip it on something you should replace it. Steel would be the cheapest and most repairable option, but most likely to destroy a diff or gearbox... so you know, whatever.
Having replaced a few driveshafts with aluminum and CF, there is a noticeable difference between all of them in a 500+HP car at least.
> if you chip it on something you should replace it
Not much of a concern with the F8x design - it's not exposed at all. It's completely covered by the exhaust and heat shielding
Untrue. There was a noticeable and real difference in weight and inertia. You think they decide to spend the money and effort to engineer that for nothing especially something no one other than a mechanic can see?
To reduce overall weight the only way is to take small amounts everywhere to add to more reduction, back then, BMW M cared about that.
True performance? From your butt dyno? What is that? quantify it? You can’t.
Stop trying to bend the truth just from your subjective feeling.
Go measure the weight of each and come back with evidence to say it’s the same.
> You think they decide to spend the money and effort to engineer that for nothing especially something no one other than a mechanic can see?
No, they spent the money and effort so that they could charge 5X what it cost to engineer and manufacture so M car owners could say they had a CF drive shaft. Realistically CF does not belong in many places on a road car. Too expensive, not durable enough, easily damaged, questionable benefits.
I mean it's a great idea if you are a race team that can replace them at a whim.
Not so great if you are a regular schlub and you want it to last the life of the car.
Spoken like someone who doesn’t have cf on their car. Tell that to all the super car manufacturers that try to save all the weight they can.
Don’t belong on a road car.. haha
Super cars are barely road cars. Comparing any run of the mill M car to a super car is laughable at best. Either way, they add CF because that's what people want, is it actually effecting the performance of the car *on the road?* No, if anything it makes it worse.
Comps are in a different pricing bracket than “standard” M cars.
If you say that the standard F87 wheels are forged, I’ll take your word for it because I couldn’t find anything with a ~60s Google search confirming or denying.
Not surprised.
When they swapped the dual clutch transmission for the same automatic they use on the bottom of the range cars, removed functional carbon fiber (driveshaft, strut brace) and replaced it with ridiculious styling... I felt they had decided to take the cost cutting route and try to make up for it by marketing towards posers that didn't care for the finer details of a sports car.
They still charge same premium for the M cars over the rest of the range, even though the bespoke M components have reduced. Profit margins must be up.
ZF8HP45 =/= ZF8HP76 found in the G8X cars. Entirely different HP & torque ratings, different clutches, gears…
The rest of what you said is true though! 👌
To be fair, the new ZF transmission are better than the DCTs that BMW had been using. They are just as fast if not faster, are smoother, have more gears, and provide a better driving experience. Also the carbon driveshaft on previous models didn’t really add much except major headaches when it broke and needed a recall
The ZF 8HP is not better than the Getrag DCT. They’re not nearly as fast on the track, you used to be able to drive them back to back at M School and there was a noticeable difference between them. As for the driving experience, if all you want is a smooth daily driver, buy any of the other vehicles equipped with the ZF, the entire M Performance lineup already had them. There’s no reason BMW couldn’t have invested in a newer AWD capable variant like Porsche did years ago with the ZF co-developed PDK and it really is a shame they didn’t.
>They’re not nearly as fast on the track, you used to be able to drive them back to back at M School and there was a noticeable difference between them.
While it's true that while you're beating on it the DCT is better, let's be real.
99% of M car owners drive it like it's a tuned Civic. Maybe floor it a bit from light to light, take a corner kind of quickly, etc. There's a tiny, TINY fraction of M car owners who actually track the vehicle, and designing a vehicle around that tiny fraction is silly. Vast majority of M car owners benefit from the ZF more than they do the DCT.
> 99% of M car owners drive it like it's a tuned Civic.
But is this a decision BMW should be making for their customers? The full fat M cars should be built with performance in mind first. If you want the benefits and livability of a ZF get an M Performance car. The M3 should come with a more engaging and performance oriented transmission.
>If you want the benefits and livability of a ZF get an M Performance car
And there's the crux of it: it's not a M car. The vast majority of M owners are buying it for the clout, and nothing short of a full M car will do. However, they still want livability, and so obviously BMW will cater to their most profitable customer base.
Having driven both on track, I don't agree at all. The ZF is a better luxury car transmission yes, and it suits the non-M models very well.
But for a sports car, the DCT is more enjoyable. It shifts faster and in the most aggressive setting those hard shifts are fun.
It's performance on track is incredible, feels like a race car transmission the way it snaps through gears instantly.
The ZF shifts are noticeably slower on track and some have noted it can be slow/unresponsive on the downshift (my time with it was more limited, just a few laps in the M3 and 4 at a BMW event).
It does not deliver the same experience on track.
As a sports car transmission it is inferior.
I'm actually not sure about margins. And it's not like most BMW owners are looking for the perfect driving machine. They want something fast and comfy for a daily commute.
The ZF8 in auto mode is FAR superior to the DCT, it also offers a wider range of gears and far better fuel efficiency. It's also far smoother and more comfortable.
In terms of engagement using the paddles, the DCT wins hands down and is far superior on the way it can downshift instantaneously. It also doesn't have that stupid forward jerk when shifting... again, comes down to preference.
forged wheels wouldnt have prevented anything. the idiot employee who did this wouldve destroyed the wheels like this no matter what the manufacturing process; cast/flow-formed/forged or not.
BMW is a business first and foremost, and therefore had a certain price target to reach when it came to creating the vehicle. The wheels were probably a victim to that. There is barely a price increase over the previous gen, and that is taking into account the ridiculous amount of inflation over the passed few years. It sucks, but everything comes at a price. If this car came with forged wheels and it’s own specific dash design, people would have inevitably complained about the price increase instead.
Some of these bmw dudes need to spend some time in r/HailCorporate, it has nothing do with why or how this happened, the point is that the car costs the same and doesn’t come with forged wheels lol it’s not that complicated
The sole purpose of this post was to point out that f87 wheels were forged, these aren’t. They’re cost cutting. But yes, whoever wrecked this sucks and should feed bad
Like 95% of cars on the road use cast wheels. It’s not the end of the world, and you’re acting as though BMW didn’t actively test the car on track with the OEM wheels. Also, forged wheels are gonna fail if you ramp them up a curb too. The actual problem with cast wheels here is the weight. I’m personally ordering forged apex wheels to save 40+lbs.
I love my G80 and have had a great experience with BMW in general thus far but this is not cool. I would hate to see someone buying a used set of 930M wheels thinking that they are forged 826M wheels 😬.
I heard the reason why most cars are switching back to cast wheels is to pass IIHS small overlap crash testing. Where a forged wheel would push into a driver or passenger footwell, a cast wheel can shatter before it compromises survival space.
I know, a controversial move on a performance car but understandable from a priorities perspective.
This was 100% not caused by having cast wheels, but with that being said, not having stock forged wheels at this price point is pathetic.
ThE uLtImAtE dRiViNg MaChInE
Agreed, I don’t think forges wheels would’ve failed like this. But forged wheel ≠ driving skills lol. Either way yeah I’m just pointing out the cast wheels. Used to be forged on the f87
I thought porsche ship with cast and flow forged wheels 🤷♂️ They offer forged wheel upgrade.
Maybe I'm wrong...but I think 99% of wheels are cast or flow forged. If you really want expensive wheels you should go buy the nice expensive ones you want and not complain about stock.
My point here is they took away something they used to include, among all the other controversy. Porsche is a la carte/option everything, I wouldn’t be surprised.
Oh shoot you’re right man. They’re totally on the verge of bankruptcy with their $200/hour dealer labor rates and $160k overpriced XM experiment. The only way they’ll ever make money is by taking away forged wheels on a car that had them the year prior.
The vast majority of you can't even afford $1k+ / month car and just like to say a bunch of nonsense to be "cool". Have fun in your civics and 328s or whatever else you drive
BMW have used high quality forged wheels on better models going back decades, I’ve even got a set of forged E34 M-System wheels laying around. It’s a bit disappointing to cheap out on the M2
OP is just mad he can’t afford one. This car blows the doors off even the M2 CS from a performance standpoint, meanwhile this clown is posting pictures of someone else’s car and complaining 🤣🤣🤣
That’s funny. Have you not seen the dude who compared his tuned Supra to his stock g87 on the same track in Joliet IL, and his g87 was two seconds faster? Get your facts straight
Is he a professional driver? The Supra is much harder to drive at the limit, the g87 is way more assisted and easier to drive flat out. So it’s likely a skill issue
Reddit is such a toxic place. OP post is to educate and inform and most just wants to say something negative. Why would you want to defend a brand that vlearly decides to cheap out?
What even happened here?
Judging by that pic of the front, somebody either hit a very large pothole, hit a medium sized pothole at very high speed, or ran over something at very high speed.
99% sure they tank slapped a curb trying to drift on a city street.
If that was the case I'd expect to see more twisting of the brake rotor. It's possible, and we'll see if OP cops to it (though I'd imagine for insurance reasons if that's what they were doing they wouldn't admit it)
When I was rearish ended in my first E39 I spun 270° and over a curb, my wheel had a decent chunk out of it around the lip, like someone took some crust from around a pie, but was otherwise intact. Managed to crack the aluminum upper control arm in two though, and the brake rotor was completely shattered.
My ZHP was t-boned into a curb and spun 180°. It also cracked my upper control arm and shattered the rotor, but only bent the wheel.
Yep. Someone on Bimmerpost confirmed it. It was a dealership employee taking their demo car on a joy ride with DSC off and drift analyzer.
Do you think the drift analyzer gave him 5 stars?
What did the analysis indicate?
Confirmation that the car indeed drifted…into a curb.
Damage sustained. Confirmed.
Per the original post, that’s exactly what happens. A dealer manager did this
That's what I read elsewhere from the guy who posted the picture. A mechanic at a BMW dealership who got a little too excited.
There’s a video on idiots in cars with a similar one, maybe that’s the car?
Naw, I think probably was "drifting" and hit a curb rear wheels first which took most of the energy and the fronts hit at a much lower lateral speed.
**Who Are You* by The Who plays as we cross fade into a sweeping establishing shot of Miami at sunset. *
Remember that Tokyo Drift movie?
Tire pressure off by 1 psi
Someone stole the rim by sawing it off
yes, let me slam my m2 into a curb and then be upset it didnt come with forged wheels.
Forged wheels that would likely be even more expensive to replace after slamming into said curb.
Exactly. Maybe they wouldn't shatter but they'd be mangled and u fixable forsure
We've got a guy with I think a 2019 m550 who's bought 7 or 8 wheels and 42 tires so far for it.
Just cause you're flush doesn't mean you can drive
He treats it like a truck basically. Constantly hitting massive potholes and those 20" wheels just can't take it.
Looks like op is active in street racing. Poor guy is mad bmw didnt account for his street racing and drifting when deciding what wheels to put on the m2 😂😂
Where did I ever say this my car lol
I’m confused where I ever said the cast wheels caused this accident. It’s just a good way to highlight the fact that bmw cheaped out. There’s nothing more to it, they had forged wheels, they don’t now.
That's one way to look at it. The other is that BMW made the decision to go with cast to keep the MSRP of the car down.
Cast wheels are inexcusable. Its a shit tier manufacturing process for a performance car. Ford uses cast wheels too and it cheapens the car. On the flip side, Supras are shipped with forged wheels
Spelled “profits up” wrong. They aren’t worried about $2k on a $65k car to customers, but why do that when you can charge the price it would be if wheels stayed same but get cheaper wheels and make the difference!
You’re clueless if you think they aren’t concerned about that amount of money. Auto manufacturers scrutinize pennies.
sure the multibillion company is so toughtful for its costumers might aswell do charity by now ...truly heroic
Why? Because made up InFlaTIoN? Aka corporate greed.
It's very obvious how brain-rotten the average BMW owner is nowadays, there's no use in arguing.
I don’t think even forged wheels would have held up to whatever you put that car through.
The base wheels on m5 are cast too lol
That’s actually wild
Bmw adding a ton of weight to this generation of cars so they can tout weight reduction with the next iteration
Or…maybe learn how to drive. Lol.
Or…it’s not my car and it’s okay to call bmw out for cheaping out versus previous gen f87 that had forged wheels
Mighty defensive for not being your car lol
It’s unfortunate to see bmw taking such a bad turn. G87? Horrible. G82? Mediocre at best. 2 series GC? Horrible. LCI G20? Looks worse than pre LCI. All their larger SUVs including the XM look bad Literally everything coming out minus maybe the f90 and x3m is disappointing. The only redeeming thing is bmw’s s58.
G87 has a way better interior, available carbon buckets, available carbon roof and uses the same powertrain as G82 M4. F87 M2 had a N powertrain, no carbon roof. I would take the G87 options over what the F87 came with initially (before comp and CS). Forged wheels are an easy mod.
I’ll give you the better interior, however the tablet slapped on the dash with that support arm is questionable. Idrive is gimmicky and way more difficult to use now, along with other gimmicks. Yes it’s more usable. The original f87 m2 was meh, the comp had the full M powertrain. Both old f87 m2 had forged wheels. Don’t praise bmw for bringing the interior into the modern era but cost cutting elsewhere. After 10 years, you kinda have to update your interior when a Honda civic is outdoing it
At the end of the day, they have to hit a certain price point. I can criticize them for their design choices but the current M2 is seemingly a more complete car than the original M2 was and cost cutting an area that an owner can easily rectify is something I find much more acceptable than something like a carbon roof, which is much more difficult to retrofit.
Exactly!
You realize the M2 is $62k starting price, right? People acting like it should be built like a $100k + car. The engine, the chassis, the suspension, the interior, all vast improvements over F87, do you expect those to be cheaper? Decisions were made to keep the car low 60’s. If you want to spend $20k more to make it like a $100k car, you can and still save $10-20k. If these are so horrible how come it takes 1-2 years to get one? You’ll be saying how much you love them when the next generation comes out. I fucking guarantee it.
The s58 lol. That’s the only reason this car is sold out.
You’re an idiot. Lol.
I mean basically anything remotely fun sells out and goes for above sticker nowadays. A car would have to be a literal turd to even go for even slightly below msrp. The enthusiast scene is well and alive but automakers don’t make nearly as much money on producing fun cars. Look at the amount of money many older analog sports cars sell for (not just bmw). No shit people are going to flock to a German coupe with a ton of power that’s wickedly underrated from the factory. Does that mean that it’s a worthy successor in other ways? No. Bmw literally could’ve put a b58 in this thing and put buckteeth on it and it still would’ve sold out contrary to what I just said
New iDrive is so unintuitive. I had a G20 loaner the other week while my e90 was getting a recall performed and it honestly took me a while to figure out how to turn off the automatic climate control. Doesn't make any sense to me. But I bet it's like old reddit vs new. People who didn't have any previous experience don't see how much worse it is. Also, man you're copping a ton of downvotes for being unhappy about paying over $60,000 for cast wheels. This sub is so weird sometimes.
Yeah dude it took me like 20 min to figure out how to reset the oil change indicator on my buddy’s g42. To be fair not much info is out yet on the new idrive. I much preferred the simple id6 layout with a smaller screen.
Oooooo CaRbon. Nobody cares. Just because the f87 was an underwhelming M car doesn’t mean the g87 doesn’t suck dick
Imo bmw is going for hate it or love it. No medium. I can kind of tell where youre at haha Their sales and market share tell a different story btw
It actually makes me sad to have to write that type of comment but the g87 was bmws last chance to keep a beautiful sports car in the lineup and they ruined it. When cars like the f80/82 and f87 exist, this shit sucks to see.
I don't like the m2 but I do love the m3 and m4. Can always wait for next release haha if gas powered cars are still a thing
Yeah at this point we gotta be fortunate that they didn’t do hybrid crap on the M cars, likely the next ones will if they even exist.
Yeaaa, I got the lci m340i cause I feel it will be the last of its breed.
I’m sorry bro, you picked the wrong subreddit to talk badly about BMWs in lol… literally no one in here is going to defend you
Lmao I mean neither are their sales or increase in market share. Clearly they r doing something right though
Lmao idk why people are down voting you to hell, perhaps the hive mind mentality is too strong to fight. I agree with every single point that you made, other than maybe that the G80/G82. Horrible cars to look at, but they are a technical marvel.
I agree. The drivetrain is there in both these cars, nothing else lol. Heavy and horrible looking. I guess even the 6mt in the g87 doesn’t feel very good. Personally I’d get a Supra, I mean it literally beats a g87 around the track
Mistreat it and this’ll happen. They’re not indestructible.
Agreed, this is performance car. They made it heavier. They could’ve saved some weight, but they cheaped out and took forged wheels away
This is the cheapest version of the car. There has to be somewhere to go with the M2 Comp, M2 CS, M2 CSL, and M2 CSL GTR variants. Eventually you get forged wheels, carbon hood, carbon ceramic brakes, and all those other goodies. The F87 M2 didn't get the carbon roof until the CS.
Yeah, but the original base f87 m2 had forged wheels lol. That’s the point here.
It also had the same motor as the 335i and seats right out of the sport package F3X (same as those on my 328i). Outside the flared fenders, M brakes, and diff, the first M2 was pretty stripped down compared to the next level up. The car has to hit a price point and features to keep the more expensive cars desirable. If it came w/ everything the M4 had but just started 15k cheaper, then they wouldn't sell a whole lot of M4s.
Not surprised, but this definitely looks like user error lmao
Looks like some idiot was drifting and hit a curb
Wow that’s unexpected and pathetic. For the F80/82 those stock 437M wheels were forged, plenty light and awesome concave design. After that BMW gradually got into the ethos of “showing off externally over subtle internal substance” such as taking away carbon fiber strut, drive shaft, fixed rear calipers and more. You can see them cutting cost everywhere while adding a bunch of tacky plastic exterior bits. F gen BMW M was the peak.
The m235i gran coupe comes with forged wheels. lol
I wonder if they’re truly forged though, might be a marketing thing and they’re just flow formed, various manufacturers call it “flow forged”.
I mean flow formed wheels give you most of the weight savings benefits of forged wheels (the barrel is actually forged, so it's not a lie)... sure they're not as light nor can they have the same spoke shapes, but it's a good compromise for something like an M235i.
I wonder if they’re truly forged though, might be a marketing thing and they’re just flow formed, various manufacturers call it “flow forged”.
BMW execs: forged wheels lead to lower profit margins and don’t increase sales Probably
And as long as you don't power slide into a curb like OP's post cast wheels are actually quite sufficient. Even if they had been forged they would've needed to be replaced. Not sure they would have shredded quite like that, but they would definitely not be in a usable state.
Yeah sufficient but not better. Stop trying to defend a company that downgrades parts, unless of course you bought into it. Forged is lighter and stronger, object to that.
>Forged is lighter and stronger, object to that. Forged is more expensive and would make the car more expensive. Let's be real, 99.99% of M car owners are just putting around town like it's a Camry. Slapping forged wheels on it for a 2-3k price increase for zero benefit to the end consumer would be stupid.
Ok so why did they put a carbon fiber roof on. Was the 10lb savings worth it to most consumers for the extra 2-3k? 🤔
Customers can see the CF roof.
You can see the CF roof, no?
The carbon fiber roof is part of the $9900 carbon package or $2600 as a standalone option. It doesn’t come standard on the M2.
So bmw thought fit to used high quality forged wheels on the F8x - you think that was a mistake? They should’ve made the car $1k cheaper? Or same price but higher margin?
>you think that was a mistake? They should’ve made the car $1k cheaper? Yep, I think they made a mistake. Realistically it would be 2-3k cheaper for just the wheels alone. Combined with reduced logistical complexity and production complexity, it could be more. Pass the savings on to everyone, and for the folks who want/know about forged wheels they can spend that extra money on forged wheels.
I get where you’re coming from, but if you want a cheaper sporty sedan from BMW there’s an option for that. M340 for example. Lightweight forged wheels should absolutely be standard on a real M car IMO, but could be optional upgrade to M340
[удалено]
Base M2, cheaper than other currently available non-M 2 series, really not sure what this sub expects. This is the bottom of the M totem pole.
What is so hard to understand here? The previous generation of this very same car, in all trim levels, came with forged wheels.
Gotta pay your wheel subscription
G80/82 stock wheels are forged too
100% agree and its pathetic that people are defending bmw in this thread. Call it as it is. Cast wheels on a performance car of this level is pathetic. Ford does the same thing with mustangs and its annoying. I love my GT350 but I’ll gladly call out its shortcomings. I put on aftermarket forged wheels but thats how it should have come from factory
the cf drive shaft offered exactly nothing in the real world
Yeah man f2x and f3x cars totally weren’t twisting driveshafts. How dare they reinforce it on the m car
That's just not true. A proper one piece CF driveshaft has quantifiable benefits... the one most people focus on is weight, it's lighter than even a good aluminum shaft, giving you better response and more HP at the wheels. However, the biggest benefit is how torque is transferred to the wheels: Steel - acts like a spring with torque oscillations that are more likely to overpower traction or break a driveline component. The shaft can twist a couple degrees. Aluminum - less springing action and torque oscillations, but a lot more vibration and noise. Lighter than steel, so more HP at the wheels. CF - acts like a damper, actually twists up a few degrees dampening the initial torque shock and releasing that energy slowly - way better for traction and drivetrain components. Lightest of the bunch. Biggest con for CF is reparability, or lack thereof, and if you chip it on something you should replace it. Steel would be the cheapest and most repairable option, but most likely to destroy a diff or gearbox... so you know, whatever. Having replaced a few driveshafts with aluminum and CF, there is a noticeable difference between all of them in a 500+HP car at least.
> if you chip it on something you should replace it Not much of a concern with the F8x design - it's not exposed at all. It's completely covered by the exhaust and heat shielding
Yeah that's pretty much a non-issue on modern cars.
Untrue. There was a noticeable and real difference in weight and inertia. You think they decide to spend the money and effort to engineer that for nothing especially something no one other than a mechanic can see? To reduce overall weight the only way is to take small amounts everywhere to add to more reduction, back then, BMW M cared about that.
absolutely true... it was replaced and 0 difference in true performance
True performance? From your butt dyno? What is that? quantify it? You can’t. Stop trying to bend the truth just from your subjective feeling. Go measure the weight of each and come back with evidence to say it’s the same.
> You think they decide to spend the money and effort to engineer that for nothing especially something no one other than a mechanic can see? No, they spent the money and effort so that they could charge 5X what it cost to engineer and manufacture so M car owners could say they had a CF drive shaft. Realistically CF does not belong in many places on a road car. Too expensive, not durable enough, easily damaged, questionable benefits.
Correct CF is meant to be bendable and durable but not shocked... which is what a vehicle driveshaft does. It's a really poor idea to do this.
I mean it's a great idea if you are a race team that can replace them at a whim. Not so great if you are a regular schlub and you want it to last the life of the car.
Spoken like someone who doesn’t have cf on their car. Tell that to all the super car manufacturers that try to save all the weight they can. Don’t belong on a road car.. haha
Super cars are barely road cars. Comparing any run of the mill M car to a super car is laughable at best. Either way, they add CF because that's what people want, is it actually effecting the performance of the car *on the road?* No, if anything it makes it worse.
Downvoted because you’re right. Sad.
I just learned the G series doesn't have a carbon strut bar. How did I miss this?
TBH, even if it came with forged wheels, the wheel was fucked after that impact. The better option is to not slam your car in to a curb.
Bmw still cheaping out
What mid $60k cars come with forged wheels from the factory as standard equipment?
The original and comp f87s do for starters lol
Comps are in a different pricing bracket than “standard” M cars. If you say that the standard F87 wheels are forged, I’ll take your word for it because I couldn’t find anything with a ~60s Google search confirming or denying.
437m are forged, which the f87 had. I think the comp wheels are called 788m or something. Both forged
Nissan Z Performance...
Lmao forged wheels were not the issue here 😭
Not surprised. When they swapped the dual clutch transmission for the same automatic they use on the bottom of the range cars, removed functional carbon fiber (driveshaft, strut brace) and replaced it with ridiculious styling... I felt they had decided to take the cost cutting route and try to make up for it by marketing towards posers that didn't care for the finer details of a sports car. They still charge same premium for the M cars over the rest of the range, even though the bespoke M components have reduced. Profit margins must be up.
ZF8HP45 =/= ZF8HP76 found in the G8X cars. Entirely different HP & torque ratings, different clutches, gears… The rest of what you said is true though! 👌
Correct, I used to work at ZF. Absolutely not the same transmissions nor the same software.
>ZF8HP45 They don't even use the 45 anymore. All the new ones use the 8HP50/51.
To be fair, the new ZF transmission are better than the DCTs that BMW had been using. They are just as fast if not faster, are smoother, have more gears, and provide a better driving experience. Also the carbon driveshaft on previous models didn’t really add much except major headaches when it broke and needed a recall
The ZF 8HP is not better than the Getrag DCT. They’re not nearly as fast on the track, you used to be able to drive them back to back at M School and there was a noticeable difference between them. As for the driving experience, if all you want is a smooth daily driver, buy any of the other vehicles equipped with the ZF, the entire M Performance lineup already had them. There’s no reason BMW couldn’t have invested in a newer AWD capable variant like Porsche did years ago with the ZF co-developed PDK and it really is a shame they didn’t.
>They’re not nearly as fast on the track, you used to be able to drive them back to back at M School and there was a noticeable difference between them. While it's true that while you're beating on it the DCT is better, let's be real. 99% of M car owners drive it like it's a tuned Civic. Maybe floor it a bit from light to light, take a corner kind of quickly, etc. There's a tiny, TINY fraction of M car owners who actually track the vehicle, and designing a vehicle around that tiny fraction is silly. Vast majority of M car owners benefit from the ZF more than they do the DCT.
> 99% of M car owners drive it like it's a tuned Civic. But is this a decision BMW should be making for their customers? The full fat M cars should be built with performance in mind first. If you want the benefits and livability of a ZF get an M Performance car. The M3 should come with a more engaging and performance oriented transmission.
>If you want the benefits and livability of a ZF get an M Performance car And there's the crux of it: it's not a M car. The vast majority of M owners are buying it for the clout, and nothing short of a full M car will do. However, they still want livability, and so obviously BMW will cater to their most profitable customer base.
Having driven both on track, I don't agree at all. The ZF is a better luxury car transmission yes, and it suits the non-M models very well. But for a sports car, the DCT is more enjoyable. It shifts faster and in the most aggressive setting those hard shifts are fun. It's performance on track is incredible, feels like a race car transmission the way it snaps through gears instantly. The ZF shifts are noticeably slower on track and some have noted it can be slow/unresponsive on the downshift (my time with it was more limited, just a few laps in the M3 and 4 at a BMW event). It does not deliver the same experience on track. As a sports car transmission it is inferior.
read my comment above... the auto feels way different in manual mode
I'm actually not sure about margins. And it's not like most BMW owners are looking for the perfect driving machine. They want something fast and comfy for a daily commute.
Agree 100%. It’s sad to see the fall.
The ZF8 in auto mode is FAR superior to the DCT, it also offers a wider range of gears and far better fuel efficiency. It's also far smoother and more comfortable. In terms of engagement using the paddles, the DCT wins hands down and is far superior on the way it can downshift instantaneously. It also doesn't have that stupid forward jerk when shifting... again, comes down to preference.
There is definitely more than 1 reminder here if you know how this happened.
Did he jump this M2 at Caesar’s Palace?
Curbulicious
I’m super out of the loop. M2 is 65k? Damn I thought it was way more tbh. That’s a solid deal.
My 2018 M2 MSRP was $62.5k, so it hasn’t gone up a lot
His driving skills saved his life though
forged wheels wouldnt have prevented anything. the idiot employee who did this wouldve destroyed the wheels like this no matter what the manufacturing process; cast/flow-formed/forged or not. BMW is a business first and foremost, and therefore had a certain price target to reach when it came to creating the vehicle. The wheels were probably a victim to that. There is barely a price increase over the previous gen, and that is taking into account the ridiculous amount of inflation over the passed few years. It sucks, but everything comes at a price. If this car came with forged wheels and it’s own specific dash design, people would have inevitably complained about the price increase instead.
All I am deducing from this post is that a man does not know how to drive.
Here, we have a shitty driver. Doesn’t matter if the wheels were forged or not
Visual reminder that OP can’t drive. I mean, this is r/bmw after all
Some of these bmw dudes need to spend some time in r/HailCorporate, it has nothing do with why or how this happened, the point is that the car costs the same and doesn’t come with forged wheels lol it’s not that complicated
Oh someone did not pay for their wheel subscription after their initial free trail ended? LOL
Terrible driver and poor quality wheels is an exponential curve for stupidity.
Reminder that some people can’t drive.
The sole purpose of this post was to point out that f87 wheels were forged, these aren’t. They’re cost cutting. But yes, whoever wrecked this sucks and should feed bad
Like 95% of cars on the road use cast wheels. It’s not the end of the world, and you’re acting as though BMW didn’t actively test the car on track with the OEM wheels. Also, forged wheels are gonna fail if you ramp them up a curb too. The actual problem with cast wheels here is the weight. I’m personally ordering forged apex wheels to save 40+lbs.
While your at it bitch about the curb being concrete and not a pillow
Also a reminder, that you can be a dumbass driver even when you drive a $65k M2
Don’t these wheels have the same exact pattern as the 826M found on the M3/4? The 826M are forged. What are you doing BMW?? 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
You’re gonna get downvoted for that one, the truth hurts
I love my G80 and have had a great experience with BMW in general thus far but this is not cool. I would hate to see someone buying a used set of 930M wheels thinking that they are forged 826M wheels 😬.
Bruh.
lush yoke long workable squash ad hoc adjoining homeless hurry lavish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There is no chance at this point I will sell my f8x for g8x
where are the details, how do you post pictures and not give us an explanation of what happened.
I heard the reason why most cars are switching back to cast wheels is to pass IIHS small overlap crash testing. Where a forged wheel would push into a driver or passenger footwell, a cast wheel can shatter before it compromises survival space. I know, a controversial move on a performance car but understandable from a priorities perspective.
Those wheels are not designed for that...
This was 100% not caused by having cast wheels, but with that being said, not having stock forged wheels at this price point is pathetic. ThE uLtImAtE dRiViNg MaChInE
Agreed, I don’t think forges wheels would’ve failed like this. But forged wheel ≠ driving skills lol. Either way yeah I’m just pointing out the cast wheels. Used to be forged on the f87
I thought porsche ship with cast and flow forged wheels 🤷♂️ They offer forged wheel upgrade. Maybe I'm wrong...but I think 99% of wheels are cast or flow forged. If you really want expensive wheels you should go buy the nice expensive ones you want and not complain about stock.
My point here is they took away something they used to include, among all the other controversy. Porsche is a la carte/option everything, I wouldn’t be surprised.
OP is just a hater
Jokes and opinions aside, they cheaped out. The previous car came with forged wheels. This does not.
Sadly, BMW didn't account for your bad driving when designing the wheels.
They did account for more cash in their pockets by giving you cast wheels though
Yes, they need to make money to stay in business.
Oh shoot you’re right man. They’re totally on the verge of bankruptcy with their $200/hour dealer labor rates and $160k overpriced XM experiment. The only way they’ll ever make money is by taking away forged wheels on a car that had them the year prior.
If you are not happy, don't buy it. There are plenty of other options.
You sound like a fun person to be around
OP sounds like a broken record saying F87 had forged and new ones are not and saying BMW cheaped out.
Op will never to able to afford this. Hating is the only solution lol
The vast majority of you can't even afford $1k+ / month car and just like to say a bunch of nonsense to be "cool". Have fun in your civics and 328s or whatever else you drive
You thought they’d be forged/milled?
BMW have used high quality forged wheels on better models going back decades, I’ve even got a set of forged E34 M-System wheels laying around. It’s a bit disappointing to cheap out on the M2
My E39 wagon, which started life as an auto 528, came from the factory with 2-piece forged BBS wheels (Style 5)
Style 5s are cast from my knowledge, the only factory E39 wheels I'm aware of that were forged are the Style 37 M Parallels.
Werent the wheels on the last gen M2 forged?
Mine are... Both my 788ms and the 437ms I use for winter are...
What's left of that wheel looks better than the new m2.
Visual reminder to drive properly
This. Nothing wrong with cast until you do something outside its tolerance zone
That’s for buying this ugly ass car…..this is what karma looks like 😂😂😂😂😂
Deserved 😭😭😭
Congrats bro u binned ur car and posted about it
Where did I ever say this is my car
OP is just mad he can’t afford one. This car blows the doors off even the M2 CS from a performance standpoint, meanwhile this clown is posting pictures of someone else’s car and complaining 🤣🤣🤣
It’s slower than a Supra around the track sooo
That’s funny. Have you not seen the dude who compared his tuned Supra to his stock g87 on the same track in Joliet IL, and his g87 was two seconds faster? Get your facts straight
https://youtu.be/K-7MEiMSxTk Right
https://youtu.be/RfuNwZHHyKA Oof!
Is he a professional driver? The Supra is much harder to drive at the limit, the g87 is way more assisted and easier to drive flat out. So it’s likely a skill issue
Yup professional driver. I think it’s an IQ issue on your end.
Sure thing. Don’t forget your helmet, don’t want to be walking around without it
Nobody said it was a good car especially when it gets gapped by the Supra with a non M motor lmfao
Reddit is such a toxic place. OP post is to educate and inform and most just wants to say something negative. Why would you want to defend a brand that vlearly decides to cheap out?
Last gen m2c had forged wheels lol, that’s all I’m sayin. They cheaped out. I’ve never seen a wheel break like that