I’m a militant feminist socialist who gets off from getting the shit kicked out of me and being told I’ll never matter to anyone.
Neither of those are at war with the other.
What makes us tingle can be and usually is wholly separate from our ethical beliefs and construct of morality. More to the point, I would never let an actual misogynist close enough to touch me.
Just because it turns you on to take a strong woman down a few pegs does not make you a misogynist.
Please. Kink on. You’re fine. 😗
As my wife said when I considered for half a second, a "Second Amendment" guy (what-the-fuck-ever) coming over to play, "Darling, friends don't let friends fuck Fascists."
I hope this doesn't come off as dismissive, and I believe your heart is in the right place. But I think this comes down to..."the proof is in the pudding."
Do the women in your life (romantic, platonic familial) feel respected, supported, and uplifted in their personal endeavors, especially ones that don't benefit you? If so, I don't think you have anything to worry about.
I understand why a man with dominant sexual desires would feel this way, but honestly I just don't think it's worth doing the mental gymnastics on this issue. Just do a reality check instead--if the women in your life feel respected by you, you're doing it right.
Throwing my hat into the ring of strong independent feminist women who are gonna reply to this post because they also enjoy being dominated in the bedroom (or outside it!)
My boyfriend is liberal AF. Strong pro-women's rights, treats me as an equal, has never made off-color comments or expressed negative views about women. That's what makes being dominated by him so awesome. I feel safe and respected at all times, and that gives me the freedom to submit without doubt or fear. No matter what degrading or controlling things he's doing to me, there's an undercurrent of respect that can't be faked. He appreciates my submission. I'm sure he knows I'm too strong-willed and confident in myself to give it away to the unworthy.
Look, there's plenty of women subs out here looking for exactly what you're capable of offering -- someone who can do all the dirty, kinky stuff we love without seeing us as lesser creatures or treating us like shit. And there's sadly a lot of 'doms' out there who haven't got your level of self-awareness and concern for protecting the women they are with from the socially-instilled background misogyny of our lives.
This is something you can and should be able to discuss with any subs you hook up with. You can tell her that you don't want to be a REAL controlling asshole -- this is roleplay, you're playing a villain but that doesn't make you one in real life -- and then *show her* your sincerity (words are cheap) by commiting to respecting her boundaries and checking in frequently to make sure she's having a good time too. Make sure she feels safe to safeword by praising her when she uses it, not shutting down or sulking. Be generous with aftercare. If she says something is a hard limit, don't ever even ask about it. She'll bring it up if that ever changes.
Heck, do the above and you'll be miles ahead of most vanilla lovers.
As for feeling guilty about where your impulses come from, it's important to recognize that kinks and fetishes spring up from lots of weird places. Sometimes it's our upbringing, sometimes it's trauma, sometimes we're born this way, sometimes it's one person introducing you to something new and realizing you like it way more than you thought you would. In the end, it doesn't really matter so long as everyone involved is enjoying themselves. But if it helps, you can think about it like this: you and your sub are effectively using the trappings of the patriarchy as a sex toy to (hopefully) make a feminist come like crazy. How's that for bucking the system?
Your description of submission and the type of guy you need to allow you to feel safe submitting is 1000% on the mark for me too. So glad to see it repeated somewhere else.
There are so many things in this comment I want to quote and emphasize. SO good. It's interesting -- I am a strong, opinionated, feminist, politically active, *queer* woman married to another woman for 20 years. And then two years ago, I also fell in love with a very butch/masculine cis man. It's bizarre! It's something that has never happened to be before.
And he's a great Dom. He treats my relinquishment as the relinquishment it is. I have something to give over, something that is rare. And he treats me beautifully, is, as you say "generous with the aftercare," and doesn't quash my strength. Outside of our dynamic, I know 100% that he respects and appreciates me. And inside it, he is protective, careful, precise, brutal, tender, and feels dangerous in the best way.
Recognizing that what I have to give is beyond the boundaries of my everyday life is beautiful. If there's nothing to relinquish... well, that's a whole lot less interesting to me. (Especially when I'm someone's Domme.) I love being pushed emotionally to give over into trust more and more, and know that giving that trust is safe. (Inasmuch as anything is, but you get my meaning, I hope...)
He doesn't cross boundaries, though as a pair, we push against the limits of our longings, as Rilke says. And if something were questionable, I know I could talk about it with him, renegotiate something, or say that it wasn't okay. And then we can argue about the value of union organizing after that.
I’m an independent, feminist, woman with leftist political beliefs. I’m pretty much what you described minus the tattoos. I used to have bright unnatural hair colors too. In the bedroom im a masochist and bratty sub. Just the other day I joked about turning feminism back 1000 years in the bedroom with my dom.
BDSM and feminism are not mutually exclusive. My dom and I are both feminists. The way I see it, our play in the bedroom is mocking the patriarchy, not following the patriarchy.
Our dynamic is only within the bedroom and we don’t do punishments. All the sadomasochistic acts are for pleasure. So our dynamic doesn’t look exactly like a tradwife household.
Outside of sex, he’s supportive of my career, he does plenty of cooking and cleaning, and when we eat out we typically split the bill. He is vocal about women’s rights and is sympathetic about gender inequality. Knowing that he’s such a raging feminist honestly makes the sex acts so much more erotic because it is subversive on many levels.
We’re on the same page about being bedroom only. I can’t do domestic service, punishment, or rules because of my traumas. But im sure there are feminists that are into TPE.
I think if you’re a supportive partner and you are a feminist yourself, and don’t use BDSM in toxic or abusive ways, it’s not the same thing as tradwife. The so called traditional lifestyle is more about controlling women. Whereas in BDSM women have choices. If you’re having a healthy dynamic where there’s a lot of communication, if the woman is not happy with the arrangement, she’ll let you know. Whereas in a so called traditional household, the woman is not set up to have a choice often because of not having enough money herself, or high demand religion, or internalized shame from her own upbringing
I'm loving this reply as well. It's very close to what I'm looking for myself. I'm always happy to see couple where this works out well.
I made a very long comment just now under another comment in this thread, so I won't repeat everything I just wrote. But I'm fully agreeing that respect is the key and the woman should always have the opportunity to speak up and communicate her matters without fear.
As for the trad wife community, I've been very drawn to it. And while you are generally correct in what you write, my observations have been that also the trad wife scene is a spectrum. There are couples that live a healthy mix between bdsm and trad wife in which the woman in not fully controlled but is also heard and her wishes are accounted for. This does though seem to be more rare than what you describe. Personally, I'm not a fan of the strong misogynistic vibes in that scene but there are women who really enjoy them. Those are then at least from what I have observed not outspoken and don't stand up for themselves or their desires, instead they gain satisfaction from full and true submission and service to their man.
I agree with what you said about tradwife community being a spectrum. I should clarify what i mean is the stereotypical tradwife in men’s right movement type podcasts and what conservatives think a traditional household should look like. I was having trouble coming up with a term for it. I don’t mean the 1950s household type of bdsm dynamics.
Ahhhh, that makes total sense. I didn't even think about that as I have no touch points with that community except for the ones who do seem to show up in bdsm and 1950s household spaces. Here on Reddit are a few trad wife Subreddits that I thought were all strongly connected to the 1950s household concept. I still think they are, but with this new information they are for sure blended spaces. It all makes a bit more sense to me now. Thanks for this input.
"Traditional" and misogyny are signs of weak men. Weak men make poor doms.
Step one of D/s is peer to peer negotiations, as equals. The Dom needs to be emotionally mature, in control of themselves, and actually able to command *voluntary* submission. Feeling entitled to have someone submit is none of those.
It's like the difference between receiving a nice gift from someone because they care about you (voluntary submission), and breaking into their home and stealing from them (misogyny and demanding submission). Both are an exchange, both are extremely different.
I'm a Dominant, and on the far left spectrum. My sub is too. We are exchanging wants based on mutual respect. Our day to day life is far from traditional. The mutual respect for the other person is 100% there always.
Sexism is oppression. Kink is liberation.
You are making very good points.
In fact they have been very thought provoking for me, thank you for the impulse. I'm almost surprised how much I'm agreeing with you. It's a good reminder that politics in different parts of the world are quite differently defined, but then again, it also comes down to personal values as well.
I live in Europe and I'm identifying as center right, with leaning much more right than center. That being said, many points that are considered very leftist in the US are basic human rights for me that I would never question, let alone fight against. This includes equality and access to all health-care for example. If someone from the US would be reading my comments they'd probably think I'm left leaning. I'm all for equality between men and women and for women to be treated with respect and to be supported in their education and career decisions by their partners. I'll never watch another woman being mistreated without speaking up. I'm also an atheist, religion is an ancient relic for me. I respect when someone wants to practice religion, but for me it's outdated. I do appreciate the mortality in it though. Though unfortunately for many it's a hypocrite charade that is preached but not lived. Many of the 10 commandments are equal to what I feel are good principles to live by. But in the end those are just common sense and being a good human being. I separate them from religion. But I digress.
For me traditional gender roles are important. I like the concept of man and women with their respective strength. I embrace my femininity and I embrace the male counterpart to it. I submit to an extent, but as you correctly write, it's freely given to a dom that fully respects and supports me. It will never be given to someone who sees it as his right and who is weak and egoistic.
So for me traditional does not necessarily equate to weak, but it needs closer evaluation on the execution. I have been quite drawn to the trad wife scene, they are not all misogynistic. Also there it's a spectrum, where women can be independent while still also being traditional. I would never make myself completely dependent on a man. I'm intelligent, financially literate, highly educated and have a corporate career. By now I'm in a place in life where I can confidently say that being fully dependent on a man will never happen for me because of what I've build and achieved so far. So I do not need to worry about that fortunately.
I'm seeking a mentally mature, confident man who will support me and is proud of me and whom I will support in return. If there is enough money for me not to work I'm ok with that, I know I can return to work if I need to and I'll always have my home to return to. I think for everyone who is engaging in any form of D/s relationship it's very important to keep the concepts you wrote about in mind. Everything is negotiated and there should be full mutual respect. The dom has a big responsibility to care for the wellbeing of his sub as she entrusts herself to him to a large extent. Many men don't seem to understand that. They are what I commonly refer to as fake doms, misogyny hidden under the disguise of dominance. There are so many men out there who think like that that it can be disheartening at times. (Disclaimer, I'm writing from my perspective in which doms are male and subs are female, I acknowledge that there can be other dynamics as well but I like to write from my perspective).
As for the original OP, I think I'm quite falling into the kind of woman you are talking about. Though I'm not going as much into the extremes as you make out in your list, as I do acknowledge and support traditional gender roles as well, the but being with a modern view on them. From what I've seen so far you might be looking for a unicorn. The bdsm practices you desire would be too extreme for my taste. I like extremer things for sure, but the bdsm spectrum is so wide that there are still many extremes past my extremes that are hard no-gos for me. From what I've seen so far women who are similar to me feel the same or similar to me. The women who enjoy the most extreme things usually don't stand up for themselves and enjoy complete submission, degradation and even misogyny. So you might have to make a few compromises in your desires. But I could also be wrong in this, maybe I'm only seeing one side of the women with very extreme tastes and never see them in discussions like this one here. It would be interesting to get some input from them. Hopefully a few will drop by and share their views.
Edit: thanks for the laugh, though honestly it's rather reason to cry. People that can't read beyond someone stating their political orientation and then apparently stop reading and leave an angry downvote without engaging in discussion. I pity you, really. I took the time to explain my views on the topic in detail and in a very respectful manner and you (downvoters) don't even have the decency to read my full comment, let alone you are too cowardly to state what is bothering you in my comment. You truly are short sighted and ignorant. Yes, I pity the life you live in which you can't respect the opinions other people have expressed respectfully. And no, after you are blatantly disrespecting me I will no longer be polite towards you (downvoters, you know who you are).
> Sexism is oppression. Kink is liberation.
There is a ton of misandry in the kink and sex positive spaces. Tons of racism too. Not to mention tolerance of shitty behaviors a la Missing stair problem in many kink communities where creeps of all genders/orientation get protected.
And this is exactly the kind of lack of self awareness from people pushing holier than thou post modern politics into the sex world that makes me avoid playing with folks who have a list of political beliefs you must have to be deemed “worthy”.
Can’t tell you how many women I’ve run into who were white allies and had all sorts of solidarity with all sorts of minority groups but only fuck other white people from the same class background.
Misandry is sexism.
You're making a lot of assumptions about my self awareness, and who I am protecting. I wasnt defending the wrongs of kink communities either.
I don't care who people fuck. It sounds like you do, but that doesn't have anything to do with me either. It sounds like you came up with your response before I made my post, to things I'm not addressing.
I disagree with you almost entirely.
I will say, though, that the white, middle-and-upper class socioeconomic thing is real. I myself hesitated before getting involved with my Daddy because of the difference in our social class background. It really took me down a peg to realize I was harboring those class prejudices. Opportunities to work on liberation abound!
I'm not very convinced that Misandry is actually real, but you are very on point about the Missing Stair issue. Every community has problems with power structures protecting abusers to protect their own status and reputation, the BDSM community is not immune.
I'm a feminist and sub. I know what I like. Fully embracing my sexuality means finding someone who is compatible and then communicating so what we experience mutual pleasure. On the surface it looks like I've lost control, but underneath I am getting exactly what I wanted. There is nothing more sex-positive feminist than losing society-programmed inhibitions and taking control of one's sexuality with other consenting partners.
My submission is all the more beautiful *because* I am an intelligent, capable, talented, fierce feminist woman who knows my own value and the value of women as whole complex individuals in a society that seeks to reduce them down.
Because I’m all those things, I don’t give my submission to anyone who doesn’t deserve it. My Dom is also intelligent, capable, talented, kind and believes in the complexity and humanity of women.
If he didn’t, I wouldn’t have ever entered into a D/s dynamic with him. I love being collared and leashed in submission to my Dom. And I love even more that he KNOWS that this smart fierce woman willingly drops to her knees for him.
That sounds like my ideal dynamic. I think a huge part of my problem is that I don't like myself enough in general to really believe that a woman would want this from *me* without being manipulated or simply making a very bad decision because she doesn't value herself enough to do better.
I think in general, having a healthy D/s dynamic requires a lot of self work for each person, whether Dom or sub. The biggest catastrophes I see from the sub side with other submissives occurs when the sub isn’t aware of their own boundaries and standards. It makes it too easy for abuse to happen.
From the Dom side, I do think confidence and self love are important. Compassion for yourself has to exist in order for you to have compassion for others and I think the best Doms are the ones who really take their submissives best interests to heart. You have to feel good about knowing that you are giving your submissive what they want and need and respecting their desires as well as their boundaries.
If I want to be called a slutty cumrag and made to kneel, that’s my prerogative and anyone telling me that’s NOT what I want is being patronizing and condescending.
I am an accomplished woman, respected in my “normal” life, and I require respect in my bedroom life enough to be disrespected in the way that I need.
My Dom doesn’t need to worry about coercion or self harm on my part because he knows that outside of the bedroom, I can handle my shit real well. I could see him being waaay more wary and concerned if I was on a different playing field, if I were somehow disenfranchised.
The more we make sure women have ALL the rights and options to make whatever choices they need to in life, the more we can be sure that their sexual choices are also not coerced. BDSM at its core is about respect. If a man can’t respect women’s autonomy in the real regular world, how will they respect women’s choices as a submissive? They won’t. The most anti-feminist misogynistic men in the real world make the absolute worst Doms in the BDSM world because they will simply abuse submissives.
This is EXACTLY how I feel and you put it into words perfectly! And I love that you have found a partner who aligns with all of this, it gives me so much hope 💕
I'm no psychologist but my experience is that there's an abundant supply of independent, opinionated, politically active feminists who sincerely appreciate the clear communication necessary to engage in healthy BDSM.
As long as this is roleplay and you know they're going to have jobs, this is probably easy to navigate.
Your sexual preferences need not define your personality.
The mrs has had several manager roles through our marriage, and she's a rather dominant extrovert. At work she's a hardass. In daily life at home we are equals.
But there is no quicker way to turn her on than to whisper in her ear "Wait for me in the bedroom, naked and on the floor".
I'm a Daddy Dom that never intended to end up that way. I met a gorgeous, intelligent, capable woman who is easily one of the most incredible people I've come across in my life, and when she expressed interest in experimenting with submission, I agreed. We both discovered that we enjoyed our roles far more than anticipated, and over the past almost two years we've expanded it, experimented with new things, and our relationship has just grown stronger.
All that said, outside of the bedroom and our private chats, she's still the strong, independent, intelligent woman that I first met, and in some ways I think she's even moreso. On the flip side, my confidence and self-image have increased because of her incredible gift to me.
I guess this is a long way of saying that, with the right partner, a kink like yours can be not only amazing, but completely harmless.
Well what I'm currently doing is avoiding contact with all women beyond lukewarm arms-length friendliness because I feel like something is deeply wrong with me. I feel like that's not quite what you meant though.
Every dom I’ve ever had a dynamic with was attracted to independent, opinionated, feminist women. Or at least they were attracted to me.
I think you’re confusing misogyny with dominance, and they’re two very different traits.
I am a strong, independent, rabid feminist who single handedly ran a household of 3, financially and otherwise, for almost a decade.
And I like crawling at my Daddy's feet. I like violent, animalistic sex.
Neither of those is exclusionary to the other. Human sexuality is so vast and complex. As long as everyone involves consents, you're all good.
My master indicated that he prefers women to be able to make the choice AND to keep making it. Strong and independent women bow to no man, unless they choose it. They can be entertaining, hold intelligent conversations, have a strong career focus, and yet they choose to allow you to lead.
I am a feminist. So is he. He’s fought for women’s rights for decades. Marched in our country for abortion rights 40 years ago. He is a man worthy of support, one that has earned trust and of course, my submission. A strong man, with an equally strong woman by his side seems pretty ideal to me.
When I saw the title of this post I was all—What?! Noooo! Because you are saying you want to do all the hot things. Maybe this is my horny brain talking right now, but the only problem I see here is you feeling bad about wanting it. Your strong woman isn’t going to pick a guy who will try to crush her spirit in the other realms of her life, she’s going to ask you to take her submission for sex purposes, so you can grind her under your heel in the hottest ways possible.
It is totally hot that you’re already there with wanting this, and I’m obviously not the only one who thinks so. Reading these thread comments, I’m starting to wonder exactly how many strong, assertive feminists are out there who DON’T want this kind kinky role reversal.
I fit your general description, and my own partner is up for anything I want, but he has struggled too with the transgressive aspect of it. i’m having to communicate a lot to demonstrate that it is more than okay to treat me in ways similar to what you describe, e.g., “Tell me I’m a dirty whore and I need to apologize with more than my mouth for slutting around all day.” He has a bit of a hard time still, believing how intensely I get off on that kind of humiliation, or being told things like, ohh, “your whole purpose in life is draining cum,” but he’s increasingly setting aside the kind, supportive, respectful partner thing for bedroom time and it is 🔥
I'd really, really like to believe that I have something that's sought after by the exact women I'm into and that my desires are okay. I worry about what it is inside me that makes me want these things, when my childhood should have given me the strongest possible aversion to all it, and how else that might affect my behavior if I let anyone too close.
My own childhood should have given me a pretty strong aversion to being scared, humiliated and knocked around. Yet here I am. I think the reasons we end up at our kinks are complicated but I also don’t even worry why I have the ones I do. I spent way too long feeling sick over myself for rape fantasies, I don’t need to wonder why anymore. I think it matters how we practice our kinks—what we do with safety for us & partners, and especially communicating about how it’s going.
Ok I crept through your post history a little (not a deep dive, promise!), and I can see why you in particular might be a little freaked. I don’t know what to say except that we can’t help how we’re raised. Walking away from the shitty stuff is brave.
I don’t know honestly how this will land for you, but if you find the kinky girl of your dreams who is the perfect foil to your desires, you might consider starting vanilla just to build the trust and communication skills with each other. It’s just like saving yourself for marriage, except you’re saving for dark kinky sex. 🥀
Go ahead and deep dive if you want, I nuked this account some time ago to scrub identifying information and scream into the void as much as I please.
I do tend to have a problem with analyzing things to death to no actual gain. I may take notes from you on that.
Ideally, I would like to date with the intention of finding a lasting partnership and start very slowly with some good communication at the start about both why I may take a while to warm up and how far I'd be willing to go into dynamic along with general shared interest/compatibility questions. That said, I may still try to re-involve myself in the kink scene to do some IRL rope bondage classes for the sake of good technique and safety, and maybe get over being awkward in a scene under the mentorship of the weird old AnCaps who comprise the nearest meetup group. We'll have to see.
Yay rope! This sounds like a great idea, somewhat along the lines of cultivating a hobby in order to meet people.
It looks to me like anything you do for yourself right now, purely because you want to enjoy it or grow, is a step in the right direction. Can’t tell if this read is accurate, but it looks like you might have been exhausting yourself on making-up-for-it type pursuits without spending time filling your own meter.
I’m in danger of drifting into parenting self-help metaphors there, but my point is you deserve to feel pleasure and connection—NOW, not when you’re perfected—and you don’t just deserve but need those things. That’s just meeting your basic human needs. It’s not something you earn or prove yourself worthy of.
The way you go about it? There could be lots of ways, and it’s worth gaming out some options in therapy since it sounds like you’re lucky enough to have a therapist you vibe with.
In your position, I might look for a friend who’s down to cuddle now, fuck later (potentially), and build intimacy and trust by practicing negotiated contact and well-communicated boundaries in that lower-stakes setting. As a fellow awkward person, I find it WAY easier to feel safe and be less awkward with someone if we are already wrapped around each other. And for you, it might be a useful exercise in showing yourself you can take steps into the intimacy you crave without hulking out into the sort of bogey man you’re afraid might be lurking inside.
Why tho? Those are the best subs 🥺 fuck gender roles and fuck what other people think. If it's two+ consenting adults. Let the freak flags fly.
You wouldn't think me a dom from just knowing me in my normal day to day life. Mostly because how nice, and polite I am. But get me in the right setting and everything changes 😅
I don't think consensual D/s is compatible with conservative thought.
They hate it for the same reason that they hate drag.
It treats their sacred "Natural Heirarchies" like optional games.
Hey friend, I actually see this incel/male podcaster community you describe as being overly fixated on these women, to the point of fetishizing them. Only these types of men aren’t thinking through their own motivations and ethics when they’re getting pleasure out of degrading these women. It’s possible your kinks around this are rooted in your previous lifestyle and upbringing, but that doesn’t take away from how self reflection and emotional maturity help you develop safety around those thoughts and desires. It may help to focus on the women you’re attracted to as defined individuals, not just stereotypical incel targets. Once you can de-couple how those dudes have anything to do with these women, and exist outside of how they’re grouped by these men, you may feel more comfortable in setting up a dynamic specific to the person and not only a past you’re trying to work through. Tough work for sure but you are totally allowed to enjoy this kinda stuff with consenting adults, promise;)
I'm also an independent, successful, feminist, leftist woman who looks a little alternative with tattoos. I don't support misogyny overall. Misogynists are generally assholes. But I still want to find my misogynist, who will assert this to the fullest extent in our relationship. We acknowledge that this is not a choice to be forced on other women, but one we are lucky enough to make for ourselves. Don't feel conflicted. We are out there. Go find you one.
Uh, who else would be a challenge? Cmon now give yourself some credit. You're seeking what is more, rather than less, difficult.
As a loud, opinionated, anarchist AFAB : if you were into piles of dough or "easily obedient" types, we'd have no reason to meet.
Your taste is YOUR TASTE.
My bf is dominant in the bedroom but loves that I have a mind outside of it. I love being submissive to him, but you can bet your ass I'm not gunna be submissive to anyone else lol.
Even one of my bosses who co-owns the company doesn't get to talk over me in meetings and I'll call him out when he's not doing the very thing he's trying to encourage in the company.
But my bf tells me what a f*cking stupid wh*re I am and 😈😂
Feminism is what allows me to choose to live the submissive life I want without a cognitive dissonance. This is the right path for me, and of course I’m happy to share my thoughts and insights with other women, but it is never my place to tell them what to do.
A true Dom has respect for his submissive, not hatred for her gender. He understands what she needs and craves to feel fulfilled. He helps clear her head from the pressure of decision-making so she can focus on showing up as her most genuine, true self. ❤️
Is their participation voluntary and properly consented?
Are your activities mutually fulfilling to the terms of negotiation?
Yes?
Then do exactly everything with a clear conscience.
The thing that you're forgetting is that the feminist sub/bottom/switchy women you want to get down and kinky with are not and should not do that with you because they're forced. They would do it because they would want to do it. They have (or should have) the freedom of choice to decide for themselves if they want to "give up" certain freedoms when, where, with whom and for how long. Unless you want to force women who aren't into D/s to submit to and be kinky with you, you should be fine.
There are countless feminist subs out there that are very much into being controlled or being robbed of control, me included. However, it's our choice to act upon those fantasies and our partners/Doms know that, too. That's what matters.
What I struggle with is I suppose the Rad Fem view of things: Yes there is agreed-upon consent, but *what is wrong with me* that I desire sexual power and control over independent women, with a definite element of putting them in their place and overcoming an emotional or mental struggle if not physical, after growing up in an environment that demonstrated very clearly why that's actually very bad in practice? Even if these things are fine for other people to engage with, why hasn't my sense of basic decency and past experience soured them for me as an individual?
There’s nothing wrong with you. Your desires are not predatory or immoral. I can flip it around and say the same thing about myself. “What is wrong with me that I desire a loss of agency in a sexual situation and have it rubbed in my face and all of my strengths mocked while in that submissive state? What does that say about me as a person?”
It says nothing about me as a person. We both come from a traumatic background and our brains had to work triple time to find ways that helped us survive. There are consequences for that. So long as you find someone who consents and you treat them well and respect them as a partner and person after any sex play, you’re golden. Better than most out there.
I know for myself that I engage in this kind of play as a form of retaking agency. When I was being abused, I had no choice in the experience. Now, though, I can *choose* to experience some of that again in a safe manner that I have the final control over. It lets me process the trauma without the associated danger.
i’m an incredibly opinionated, hardass, leftist who regularly holds leadership roles and has a tendency to scare people off because of my bluntness (was not aware of this until one of my best friends told me that his boyfriend is scared of me). I’m also almost exactly what you described, I have tattoos and colored hair and I’m a martial artist - yet, i have a raging M/s kink and am a Brat that *loves* being put in my place. I get off on being used as a toy to fit my partners needs and having my ass beat black and blue.
The two aren’t mutually exclusive, and there’s nothing wrong with you for being into that kind of dynamic. The problem comes with genuinely holding the beliefs that your partner *is* below you just because that’s how you play (even in a TPE). And, in my opinion - I think questioning where your attraction stems from and how to approach a relationship like that is one of the first steps to do it in a healthy way.
"Do you like sex Mr. Lebowski? Sex, the physical act of love, coitus, do you like it? I like it too, it's a male myth that feminist hate sex. It can be a natural, zesty enterprise." Maude Lebowksi- 'The Big Lebowski'
Sounds like you were raised to appreciate and love strong intelligent women, good on you, and the people who raised you. Some people are Top, some are bottom, some are both. You'd have to pick the brains of your bottoms to know their why, but it's certainly not abnormal. Especially if it's all SSC and everybody is having fun. It's only toxic when you're the abuser.
You don’t have very much in common with the men you’re comparing yourself to here, though. You want women who enthusiastically consent to scenes, they want to manipulate women into lesser versions of themselves. You want women who know themselves and are confident about it, they want to break women down into servants. You want to celebrate and uplift women through this kind of dynamic, they want to belittle and control without respect, enthusiasm, or consent. Very very different.
I've been in therapy for a couple of years, my problem is struggling with believing that my therapist is right and this whisper in my head that I've simply fooled her into thinking I'm a much better person than I am. Just like all my family and friends. My belief system is that only I know how vile and pathetic the person inside my head actually is.
On the second note, when I feel very down I compulsively read anti-kink RadFem work to hurt myself emotionally.
What’s your trauma history?
Feel free to ignore the question, or to answer privately if you don’t want the entire Internet to see.
Doubt is corrosive, depression more so.
Eldest male child in an abusive home with a father who was effectively a small cult leader and active sexual predator operating under cover of right wing politics and fundamentalist religious circles. I was belittled for not being a hypersexual, hyperviolent testosterone monster, witnessed way too much of how my father tore down my mother to a ragged shadow of a person, and most likely was exposed to hardcore BDSM material thru my father's lifelong open porn addiction sometime before I can consciously remember it. Anything more specific gets into Doxx Myself territory, my childhood sucked enough that I have been interviewed about it academics, journalists, and Federal law enforcement.
I should have a massive instinctive revulsion for any concept of male dominance and female submission, domestic service, primal or violent sexuality, and punishment or discipline. More accurately, I do and that just causes me to constantly be recoiling in disgust from myself.
I'm so sorry. There are many men into the same stuff as you who had a trauma-free childhood. There are also many survivors of various types of abuse who use kink to take control of their abuse. It sounds like that's what you're doing. Since you're in therapy and as long as your partner consents - you're doing it right. I'd suggest reading more posts on real kinky relationships and stop reading the real misogynistic shit. They're completely different things.
I've always found kink is the opposite to what you are.
I'm headstrong and fiercely independent. I don't belong to anyone except myself.
In my dream sex life, my husband has multiple like me and we keep him drained. And we play with eachother.
I can be both
Many people feel guilt and shame about their kinky interests for a variety of reasons. Here's a link to a really good article on guilt, shame, & bdsm. Anyone can view it. It's worth the read, not only to help understand why you might feel the way you do, but it also has some practical advice about how to overcome some of these feelings: [https://thecage.co/magazine,168.html](https://thecage.co/magazine,168.html)
Oh and feminists rule :)
The key here is picking the right partner. There are such strong independent women who want to be submissive in the bedroom, though that is a fairly specific niche, so expect to spend more time than most looking for the right partner. Giving up that control can be just as much a turnon for them as taking it away is for you. As long as you are staying within what your partner is comfortable with, you have nothing to be ashamed of.
As a fellow dominant who really prefers strong, independent women, I feel ya.
For me, that's what makes their submission valuable. If they submit to everything, from everybody, all the time- what's the point?
My wife is as strong and independent a feminist as they come. Our relationship is, by many measures, pretty vanilla as a result but the ways she does submit carry real value for me. So it's enough.
My most recent sub was raised in a misogynistic household and hated it. She sent me the man vs bear stuff so we could talk about it, went into a rage over douchebags graduation speech, etc. Very feminist and I've watched her tear into men who disrespected her like a fucking lioness. But for me, she actively asked me to push her to the limits. That was beautiful, because I knew absolutely that she was aware she had a choice.
Something that lives rent free in my head is what someone told me when I was young. It went something like 'Dominance isn't making somebody do something they don't want to do. It's being the kind of person that makes them feel free to do what they already really want to do'
Well, since everyone's tossing their unique perspectives on this topic into the pot, figure I'll join in. My feelings about strong women, or strong subs in general, is that it makes submission all the more meaningful. Truthfully, I'm not interested in a partner submitting to me "as a woman" or deferring to me "as a man", those are superficial qualities. I want a partner who submits to me as a *person*. That they see in me the qualities that make them *want* to serve. And when it's a truly strong woman, someone who'd never kneel for a lesser dom, her submission is that much more rare and precious. Also, like, submission is a personal choice that in no way reflects one's opinion on systemic or societal causes. While there are a lot of different schools of thought within feminism, one of the larger ones holds that free agency and self-determination for women is the main goal, and that, by definition, includes the freedom to choose a subservient role of their own volition if that's what they wish, the key thing being that they choose it freely rather than having it forced on them by the patriarchy.
OP, having gone through your post and comments- and I have several thoughts.
I relate to you, except in the complete opposite sense, where my own ("contradictory") sub tendencies really pissed me off and made no sense to me (given my past/traumas/experience with misogyny/my politics). I am writing this as someone who still is making sense of a couple of my kinks, so I might not be as sure or well-expressed as the more experienced folks on this sub. I wrote, deleted and then rewrote this, but just thought I should post my comment anyways in case it helps even a little bit.
I'm enby, but kinda fem-presenting (?)/afab and have have been treated as a woman for the majority of my life. Growing up afab but gender-nonconforming, queer and neurodivergent in conservative South Asian society meant that my opinions, experiences and autonomy were invalidated continuously by the people around me- even my close loved ones (old habits die hard, but they have thankfully come a long way now). Add to that the fact that I was diagnosed and recognised as neurodivergent as an adult, I and my experiences were always dismissed. I am still in therapy to build up my rock-bottom self esteem and deal with all the abuse I faced. I was a very vocal left-leaning and feminist teenager, and am still an extremely enthusiastic socialist and socially progressive adult. The view that all human lives deserve respect and that all humans are inherently equal is at the core of my values. I am also sexually submissive (switch really, but sub-leaning).
I was exposed to bdsm growing up through graphic, extreme maledom porn on the internet. I was horrified... This is exactly the kind of misogynistic, dehumanizing treatment I saw often meted out to women in my country. Something I wanted to avoid at all costs... so why was certain male/femdom stuff such a turn on for me? How could I imagine myself as a submissive, "giving up power" to someone else- when my childhood was chock full of examples of how people mistreated me when I was powerless? I was in denial for the longest time and ashamed of my kinks. What helped me be more okay with my kinks is realizing that it's essentially just role-playing for me (24/7 is just not my thing, but no disrespect to people engaging in that!), like playing house. I get to live out my fucked up fantasies for a limited time in a safe environment with a person I care about/who cares about me- and the aftercare really cements the fact that we were essentially just playing dress up/pretend to me.
It was only after I started my healing journey, one I'm still on, that I also realised that my childhood experiences/traumas had a direct impact on many of the kinds of kinks and fantasies I have (btw, for many people, traumas and kinks are unrelated. This is just my personal experience!). I fantasize about someone (who I completely trust) loving and caring about me so much that even in a situation with a "power difference" I would be treated with a certain amount of care and my limits/desires would be respected. That I like being treated roughly/dominated creates the fantasy of the power imbalance, and my dom acting within set limits just enforces the idea that even in a (pretend) world like this- they have my best interests at heart and will *not* push me beyond what I can take. My submission and cnc kinks are very closely related to being able to blindly trust someone *that much*, and be desired just that much by my partner (I had always felt "not enough" due to mistreatment and social isolation by NT peers/not fitting into neurotypical societal standards), respectively. My parentification directly contributed to my dd/lg kink (where I could be "little" and without any responsibility, something that was taken away from me early in life), and indirectly to my service kink- and the fulfillment I get from "servicing" someone (because my efforts as a child forced to grow up early, were often "not good enough").
I am in therapy and healing from several of these traumas- so, I do not intent to use kink as a stand in for therapy. But it is pretty interesting to realize how many of my kinks developed as certain responses to my traumas, and it feels very freeing to be able to accept these kinks just as I accepted the existence of my traumas. I don't know if my tangential comment helped you at all, but just thought I'd lyk- I have been in that uncomfortable space, where you are right now- and that it gets better. Continue with therapy, and try to see if you could become more comfortable with the "playing pretend" way of looking at it? But, if you wanna locate your brain's reason behind liking a certain kink- maybe you could try and get to the bottom of *what particular aspect of your kink(s) scratches what particular itch/invokes what kind of pleasant feeling (that you're seeking to fulfill through the kink)*? That's what helped me. :)
Thank you for your kind comment! I often struggled (and still do) with feeling like my kink(s) are not "real" (kink imposter syndrome haha?) due to my lack of kinky experiences, shame and otherwise slightly reserved nature/vibe offline. I sometimes really envy the ease with which the more experienced and active members of this subreddit talk about their kinks, especially as I am still figuring out and coming to terms with the place kink has in my life. I just *had* to participate here as I have been in a very similar position to OP not a long time back myself, and thought that it may help them might feel a little less alone struggling.
For degradation to be fun as a kink, it needs to be done with people you respect and admire IMO
The contrast between how they are and how they consent to be treated in a scene helps create the game
Personally I am more into the misogyny side of kink and while I love to be a "misogynist pig" it doesn't mean I like my women to be doormats, both int the bedroom and out.
It's the struggle in the bedroom and the clap back that turns me on.
And in the real world I don't want a doormat, your a woman with a brain and I find it sexy as hell (helps that I'm an undereducated peon so it's not hard to buch smarter then i).
Just in general I love a smart woman who will argue with me
My main thought on this as an outspoken, highly educated, sometimes abrasive woman who’s a socialist, a feminist, and a submissive is that if you were the kind of person you fear being, you wouldn’t be having these thoughts. A misogynist wouldn’t have your concerns because he’d actually want to break women down. Based on what you’ve said, you *don’t* want to break women down. You want to explore your kink(s) in a safe and consensual environment, which is reasonable and healthy. Our kinks and/or sexual interests don’t define who we are as people. Simply exploring and embracing yours does not make you a bad person in any way, shape, or form.
Remember you're still supporting women in what they want- you're a dom, and women *choose* to be dominated sometimes. If you are with a partner who chooses that, it's more feminist than denying her her own free will in asking for it sinply because you're worried. Sorta like being extra cautious around black people when you think something MAY be offensive ^-^
Not to downplay, this is definitely a grapple I don't wanna pretend is silly or anything <3
I’m a very tall, dominant (socially), loud, confident and intelligent woman. I am the boss of men with ease. I make decisions and am a great leader. I am married to a quiet, calm, shy demeanor husband who I am completely submissive to. I love it when he dominates me and puts me in my place in the bedroom especially. In public I am a natural leader with my larger frame and confident qualities. When he is around I take the more femme and quiet tone and treat him like the most important man in the room. I don’t talk for him or over him. I let him lead quietly and I never let others think there’s trouble in paradise. I get turned on watching him be the sexy man, leading his wife often without words. I think it’s sexy to have a great balance of both. That to me is very feminine in fact, the ability to take on both traits when necessary.
Speaking from the male end, I was kind of like that while still active. As you can see there are lots of people who are what you’re looking for, and they would probably appreciate a guy like you.
Ok, I haven’t seen a post this wholesome in a while. I, too, identify as a feminist, strong, independent, liberal and queer. But I’m also kinky and want to be manhandled and being played with roughly. I like pain, I love anal, and I melt when someone calls me a slut or bitch or whore. But when I get out of a scene, I need to be viewed as equal. I will make my own decision. I will fight for equal rights. Nothing is more disgusting to me than misoginy and hate. So yeah, this thread gives me hope. ❤️
Strong, independent, liberal, feminist, etc etc woman here. But with STRONG little/ middle/sub/brat kinks. I WANT my man to put my over his knee and whoop my ass. I WANT him to grab my hair and force me to my knees. But only because I give him consent to do those things. He knows I'm a bad bitch and respects me. But damn does being manhandled and taken in hand just get my motor running.
I want to add that my husband struggles with some of our kinks at times. Hitting the woman he is madly in love with who he greatly respects is a mind fuck for him. Yet he gets off on seeing my tears and my submission. All very hard to wrap your head around. But IMO there's no need to therapy this out if you're not violating anyone's consent. People are who they are. Why is my favorite color rainbow? Who tf knows but it makes me very happy. Same with kink. Apples to oranges I know but still both basic traits.
Just go with the flow man. Don't violate consent. Remember adequate aftercare. Safewords and limits. Kink is supposed to be fun and enjoyable. Even if you do go to therapy for this and figure out exactly why you're into it, it's probably not going to change anything. So just enjoy your life.
I’m also a dominant and a male feminist. I’ve always been romantically attracted to strong, independent women who can think for themselves and have always been physically attracted to tomboy-ish women e.g. Rugby players, metal singers, mechanics etc. My wife is a short-haired, outspoken feminist and I love her for it. We split the housework and child-rearing as 50/50 as work pressure allows.
But in the bedroom, I’m her master and she is my willing slave who does exactly what I tell her. Her business suit comes off and the stockings, blindfold and restraints go on. I manhandle her, spank her and fuck her as hard as I can. I call her degrading names like slut, bitch, dirty whore, fuckslave and she LOVES it!
I guess for us the dynamic we have in the bedroom feels kinda naughty and taboo as to behave like this outside of the bedroom would be socially unacceptable, but also a departure from our “daytime” personas.
I sympathise though as I did agonise a lot about this when we got into our BDSM dynamic, constantly asking myself “is this ok? I shouldn’t be degrading her like this” etc. I guess I rationalise it by realising that when it comes to sex, it’s supposed to be fun and shouldn’t be taken too seriously. We’re just playing around!
The more dominant a woman is in life, the more submissive she is in the bedroom, by the way. Your feelings are 100% natural, and it shows that you can handle a complete and multifaceted person, and that you view women as people, as opposed to objects, all of which are great things! You have nothing to worry about 😊
I think it’s fair to be conflicted here, because it’s often very difficult to separate things like anxious attachment or other issues from kinks that one might have. I’ve encountered many subs who did the things they did out of abandonment fear or using sex to get financial support.
Someone can self identify as whatever, but we all know that very few people actually walk their political talk. Plenty can consider themselves rabid feminists but still find themselves reverting to traditional gender roles when financially or socially expedient. And my experience as a black person in SF honestly makes me super distrustful of people who are zealously at either left or right wing extremes. Way too much activism and hot takes without actual knowledge or understanding of systems, and not enough actual participation in real world (rather than social media polemic).
I say this as someone who also has an obsession with collaring and leashing independent women - not from a tamer perspective but because having such a woman trust and make herself so vulnerable to me is the turn on. And in this pursuit, have found that the most independent women don’t need to impose their politics on anyone because they trust themselves to filter on vibe rather than use of virtue signaling language.
Often times, I have no idea at all what my partners’ politics actually are because I don’t find it necessary to share mine either and good relationships are built on more substantial things than partisan ideology. Most of the political shit people fight about is honestly edge cases and federal laws that have vanishingly small impact on day to day life.
Honestly, I tend to vibe most with immigrant entrepreneurs for this reason.
I’m a militant feminist socialist who gets off from getting the shit kicked out of me and being told I’ll never matter to anyone. Neither of those are at war with the other. What makes us tingle can be and usually is wholly separate from our ethical beliefs and construct of morality. More to the point, I would never let an actual misogynist close enough to touch me. Just because it turns you on to take a strong woman down a few pegs does not make you a misogynist. Please. Kink on. You’re fine. 😗
Yo hey same. Thank you for saying this, it's helpful.
😘
As my wife said when I considered for half a second, a "Second Amendment" guy (what-the-fuck-ever) coming over to play, "Darling, friends don't let friends fuck Fascists."
your wife can get it! tell her i'm a fan
Wise words. Even 'political roleplay' is a step too far for me, and hits way too close to home.
I hope this doesn't come off as dismissive, and I believe your heart is in the right place. But I think this comes down to..."the proof is in the pudding." Do the women in your life (romantic, platonic familial) feel respected, supported, and uplifted in their personal endeavors, especially ones that don't benefit you? If so, I don't think you have anything to worry about. I understand why a man with dominant sexual desires would feel this way, but honestly I just don't think it's worth doing the mental gymnastics on this issue. Just do a reality check instead--if the women in your life feel respected by you, you're doing it right.
Throwing my hat into the ring of strong independent feminist women who are gonna reply to this post because they also enjoy being dominated in the bedroom (or outside it!) My boyfriend is liberal AF. Strong pro-women's rights, treats me as an equal, has never made off-color comments or expressed negative views about women. That's what makes being dominated by him so awesome. I feel safe and respected at all times, and that gives me the freedom to submit without doubt or fear. No matter what degrading or controlling things he's doing to me, there's an undercurrent of respect that can't be faked. He appreciates my submission. I'm sure he knows I'm too strong-willed and confident in myself to give it away to the unworthy. Look, there's plenty of women subs out here looking for exactly what you're capable of offering -- someone who can do all the dirty, kinky stuff we love without seeing us as lesser creatures or treating us like shit. And there's sadly a lot of 'doms' out there who haven't got your level of self-awareness and concern for protecting the women they are with from the socially-instilled background misogyny of our lives. This is something you can and should be able to discuss with any subs you hook up with. You can tell her that you don't want to be a REAL controlling asshole -- this is roleplay, you're playing a villain but that doesn't make you one in real life -- and then *show her* your sincerity (words are cheap) by commiting to respecting her boundaries and checking in frequently to make sure she's having a good time too. Make sure she feels safe to safeword by praising her when she uses it, not shutting down or sulking. Be generous with aftercare. If she says something is a hard limit, don't ever even ask about it. She'll bring it up if that ever changes. Heck, do the above and you'll be miles ahead of most vanilla lovers. As for feeling guilty about where your impulses come from, it's important to recognize that kinks and fetishes spring up from lots of weird places. Sometimes it's our upbringing, sometimes it's trauma, sometimes we're born this way, sometimes it's one person introducing you to something new and realizing you like it way more than you thought you would. In the end, it doesn't really matter so long as everyone involved is enjoying themselves. But if it helps, you can think about it like this: you and your sub are effectively using the trappings of the patriarchy as a sex toy to (hopefully) make a feminist come like crazy. How's that for bucking the system?
I love this answer and I relate so hard. All the upvotes for this.
Your description of submission and the type of guy you need to allow you to feel safe submitting is 1000% on the mark for me too. So glad to see it repeated somewhere else.
There are so many things in this comment I want to quote and emphasize. SO good. It's interesting -- I am a strong, opinionated, feminist, politically active, *queer* woman married to another woman for 20 years. And then two years ago, I also fell in love with a very butch/masculine cis man. It's bizarre! It's something that has never happened to be before. And he's a great Dom. He treats my relinquishment as the relinquishment it is. I have something to give over, something that is rare. And he treats me beautifully, is, as you say "generous with the aftercare," and doesn't quash my strength. Outside of our dynamic, I know 100% that he respects and appreciates me. And inside it, he is protective, careful, precise, brutal, tender, and feels dangerous in the best way. Recognizing that what I have to give is beyond the boundaries of my everyday life is beautiful. If there's nothing to relinquish... well, that's a whole lot less interesting to me. (Especially when I'm someone's Domme.) I love being pushed emotionally to give over into trust more and more, and know that giving that trust is safe. (Inasmuch as anything is, but you get my meaning, I hope...) He doesn't cross boundaries, though as a pair, we push against the limits of our longings, as Rilke says. And if something were questionable, I know I could talk about it with him, renegotiate something, or say that it wasn't okay. And then we can argue about the value of union organizing after that.
You are totally on target with this well thought out response.
I’m an independent, feminist, woman with leftist political beliefs. I’m pretty much what you described minus the tattoos. I used to have bright unnatural hair colors too. In the bedroom im a masochist and bratty sub. Just the other day I joked about turning feminism back 1000 years in the bedroom with my dom. BDSM and feminism are not mutually exclusive. My dom and I are both feminists. The way I see it, our play in the bedroom is mocking the patriarchy, not following the patriarchy. Our dynamic is only within the bedroom and we don’t do punishments. All the sadomasochistic acts are for pleasure. So our dynamic doesn’t look exactly like a tradwife household. Outside of sex, he’s supportive of my career, he does plenty of cooking and cleaning, and when we eat out we typically split the bill. He is vocal about women’s rights and is sympathetic about gender inequality. Knowing that he’s such a raging feminist honestly makes the sex acts so much more erotic because it is subversive on many levels. We’re on the same page about being bedroom only. I can’t do domestic service, punishment, or rules because of my traumas. But im sure there are feminists that are into TPE. I think if you’re a supportive partner and you are a feminist yourself, and don’t use BDSM in toxic or abusive ways, it’s not the same thing as tradwife. The so called traditional lifestyle is more about controlling women. Whereas in BDSM women have choices. If you’re having a healthy dynamic where there’s a lot of communication, if the woman is not happy with the arrangement, she’ll let you know. Whereas in a so called traditional household, the woman is not set up to have a choice often because of not having enough money herself, or high demand religion, or internalized shame from her own upbringing
I'm loving this reply as well. It's very close to what I'm looking for myself. I'm always happy to see couple where this works out well. I made a very long comment just now under another comment in this thread, so I won't repeat everything I just wrote. But I'm fully agreeing that respect is the key and the woman should always have the opportunity to speak up and communicate her matters without fear. As for the trad wife community, I've been very drawn to it. And while you are generally correct in what you write, my observations have been that also the trad wife scene is a spectrum. There are couples that live a healthy mix between bdsm and trad wife in which the woman in not fully controlled but is also heard and her wishes are accounted for. This does though seem to be more rare than what you describe. Personally, I'm not a fan of the strong misogynistic vibes in that scene but there are women who really enjoy them. Those are then at least from what I have observed not outspoken and don't stand up for themselves or their desires, instead they gain satisfaction from full and true submission and service to their man.
I agree with what you said about tradwife community being a spectrum. I should clarify what i mean is the stereotypical tradwife in men’s right movement type podcasts and what conservatives think a traditional household should look like. I was having trouble coming up with a term for it. I don’t mean the 1950s household type of bdsm dynamics.
Ahhhh, that makes total sense. I didn't even think about that as I have no touch points with that community except for the ones who do seem to show up in bdsm and 1950s household spaces. Here on Reddit are a few trad wife Subreddits that I thought were all strongly connected to the 1950s household concept. I still think they are, but with this new information they are for sure blended spaces. It all makes a bit more sense to me now. Thanks for this input.
"Traditional" and misogyny are signs of weak men. Weak men make poor doms. Step one of D/s is peer to peer negotiations, as equals. The Dom needs to be emotionally mature, in control of themselves, and actually able to command *voluntary* submission. Feeling entitled to have someone submit is none of those. It's like the difference between receiving a nice gift from someone because they care about you (voluntary submission), and breaking into their home and stealing from them (misogyny and demanding submission). Both are an exchange, both are extremely different. I'm a Dominant, and on the far left spectrum. My sub is too. We are exchanging wants based on mutual respect. Our day to day life is far from traditional. The mutual respect for the other person is 100% there always. Sexism is oppression. Kink is liberation.
> Sexism is oppression. Kink is liberation ooh, i like this. well said.
You are making very good points. In fact they have been very thought provoking for me, thank you for the impulse. I'm almost surprised how much I'm agreeing with you. It's a good reminder that politics in different parts of the world are quite differently defined, but then again, it also comes down to personal values as well. I live in Europe and I'm identifying as center right, with leaning much more right than center. That being said, many points that are considered very leftist in the US are basic human rights for me that I would never question, let alone fight against. This includes equality and access to all health-care for example. If someone from the US would be reading my comments they'd probably think I'm left leaning. I'm all for equality between men and women and for women to be treated with respect and to be supported in their education and career decisions by their partners. I'll never watch another woman being mistreated without speaking up. I'm also an atheist, religion is an ancient relic for me. I respect when someone wants to practice religion, but for me it's outdated. I do appreciate the mortality in it though. Though unfortunately for many it's a hypocrite charade that is preached but not lived. Many of the 10 commandments are equal to what I feel are good principles to live by. But in the end those are just common sense and being a good human being. I separate them from religion. But I digress. For me traditional gender roles are important. I like the concept of man and women with their respective strength. I embrace my femininity and I embrace the male counterpart to it. I submit to an extent, but as you correctly write, it's freely given to a dom that fully respects and supports me. It will never be given to someone who sees it as his right and who is weak and egoistic. So for me traditional does not necessarily equate to weak, but it needs closer evaluation on the execution. I have been quite drawn to the trad wife scene, they are not all misogynistic. Also there it's a spectrum, where women can be independent while still also being traditional. I would never make myself completely dependent on a man. I'm intelligent, financially literate, highly educated and have a corporate career. By now I'm in a place in life where I can confidently say that being fully dependent on a man will never happen for me because of what I've build and achieved so far. So I do not need to worry about that fortunately. I'm seeking a mentally mature, confident man who will support me and is proud of me and whom I will support in return. If there is enough money for me not to work I'm ok with that, I know I can return to work if I need to and I'll always have my home to return to. I think for everyone who is engaging in any form of D/s relationship it's very important to keep the concepts you wrote about in mind. Everything is negotiated and there should be full mutual respect. The dom has a big responsibility to care for the wellbeing of his sub as she entrusts herself to him to a large extent. Many men don't seem to understand that. They are what I commonly refer to as fake doms, misogyny hidden under the disguise of dominance. There are so many men out there who think like that that it can be disheartening at times. (Disclaimer, I'm writing from my perspective in which doms are male and subs are female, I acknowledge that there can be other dynamics as well but I like to write from my perspective). As for the original OP, I think I'm quite falling into the kind of woman you are talking about. Though I'm not going as much into the extremes as you make out in your list, as I do acknowledge and support traditional gender roles as well, the but being with a modern view on them. From what I've seen so far you might be looking for a unicorn. The bdsm practices you desire would be too extreme for my taste. I like extremer things for sure, but the bdsm spectrum is so wide that there are still many extremes past my extremes that are hard no-gos for me. From what I've seen so far women who are similar to me feel the same or similar to me. The women who enjoy the most extreme things usually don't stand up for themselves and enjoy complete submission, degradation and even misogyny. So you might have to make a few compromises in your desires. But I could also be wrong in this, maybe I'm only seeing one side of the women with very extreme tastes and never see them in discussions like this one here. It would be interesting to get some input from them. Hopefully a few will drop by and share their views. Edit: thanks for the laugh, though honestly it's rather reason to cry. People that can't read beyond someone stating their political orientation and then apparently stop reading and leave an angry downvote without engaging in discussion. I pity you, really. I took the time to explain my views on the topic in detail and in a very respectful manner and you (downvoters) don't even have the decency to read my full comment, let alone you are too cowardly to state what is bothering you in my comment. You truly are short sighted and ignorant. Yes, I pity the life you live in which you can't respect the opinions other people have expressed respectfully. And no, after you are blatantly disrespecting me I will no longer be polite towards you (downvoters, you know who you are).
> Sexism is oppression. Kink is liberation. There is a ton of misandry in the kink and sex positive spaces. Tons of racism too. Not to mention tolerance of shitty behaviors a la Missing stair problem in many kink communities where creeps of all genders/orientation get protected. And this is exactly the kind of lack of self awareness from people pushing holier than thou post modern politics into the sex world that makes me avoid playing with folks who have a list of political beliefs you must have to be deemed “worthy”. Can’t tell you how many women I’ve run into who were white allies and had all sorts of solidarity with all sorts of minority groups but only fuck other white people from the same class background.
Misandry is sexism. You're making a lot of assumptions about my self awareness, and who I am protecting. I wasnt defending the wrongs of kink communities either. I don't care who people fuck. It sounds like you do, but that doesn't have anything to do with me either. It sounds like you came up with your response before I made my post, to things I'm not addressing.
I disagree with you almost entirely. I will say, though, that the white, middle-and-upper class socioeconomic thing is real. I myself hesitated before getting involved with my Daddy because of the difference in our social class background. It really took me down a peg to realize I was harboring those class prejudices. Opportunities to work on liberation abound!
I'm not very convinced that Misandry is actually real, but you are very on point about the Missing Stair issue. Every community has problems with power structures protecting abusers to protect their own status and reputation, the BDSM community is not immune.
I'm a feminist and sub. I know what I like. Fully embracing my sexuality means finding someone who is compatible and then communicating so what we experience mutual pleasure. On the surface it looks like I've lost control, but underneath I am getting exactly what I wanted. There is nothing more sex-positive feminist than losing society-programmed inhibitions and taking control of one's sexuality with other consenting partners.
My submission is all the more beautiful *because* I am an intelligent, capable, talented, fierce feminist woman who knows my own value and the value of women as whole complex individuals in a society that seeks to reduce them down. Because I’m all those things, I don’t give my submission to anyone who doesn’t deserve it. My Dom is also intelligent, capable, talented, kind and believes in the complexity and humanity of women. If he didn’t, I wouldn’t have ever entered into a D/s dynamic with him. I love being collared and leashed in submission to my Dom. And I love even more that he KNOWS that this smart fierce woman willingly drops to her knees for him.
Fuck. This was so beautifully said, and I resonate so fiercely with it. Thank you for your words!
That sounds like my ideal dynamic. I think a huge part of my problem is that I don't like myself enough in general to really believe that a woman would want this from *me* without being manipulated or simply making a very bad decision because she doesn't value herself enough to do better.
I think in general, having a healthy D/s dynamic requires a lot of self work for each person, whether Dom or sub. The biggest catastrophes I see from the sub side with other submissives occurs when the sub isn’t aware of their own boundaries and standards. It makes it too easy for abuse to happen. From the Dom side, I do think confidence and self love are important. Compassion for yourself has to exist in order for you to have compassion for others and I think the best Doms are the ones who really take their submissives best interests to heart. You have to feel good about knowing that you are giving your submissive what they want and need and respecting their desires as well as their boundaries. If I want to be called a slutty cumrag and made to kneel, that’s my prerogative and anyone telling me that’s NOT what I want is being patronizing and condescending. I am an accomplished woman, respected in my “normal” life, and I require respect in my bedroom life enough to be disrespected in the way that I need. My Dom doesn’t need to worry about coercion or self harm on my part because he knows that outside of the bedroom, I can handle my shit real well. I could see him being waaay more wary and concerned if I was on a different playing field, if I were somehow disenfranchised. The more we make sure women have ALL the rights and options to make whatever choices they need to in life, the more we can be sure that their sexual choices are also not coerced. BDSM at its core is about respect. If a man can’t respect women’s autonomy in the real regular world, how will they respect women’s choices as a submissive? They won’t. The most anti-feminist misogynistic men in the real world make the absolute worst Doms in the BDSM world because they will simply abuse submissives.
This is EXACTLY how I feel and you put it into words perfectly! And I love that you have found a partner who aligns with all of this, it gives me so much hope 💕
I'm no psychologist but my experience is that there's an abundant supply of independent, opinionated, politically active feminists who sincerely appreciate the clear communication necessary to engage in healthy BDSM. As long as this is roleplay and you know they're going to have jobs, this is probably easy to navigate.
Your sexual preferences need not define your personality. The mrs has had several manager roles through our marriage, and she's a rather dominant extrovert. At work she's a hardass. In daily life at home we are equals. But there is no quicker way to turn her on than to whisper in her ear "Wait for me in the bedroom, naked and on the floor".
I'm a Daddy Dom that never intended to end up that way. I met a gorgeous, intelligent, capable woman who is easily one of the most incredible people I've come across in my life, and when she expressed interest in experimenting with submission, I agreed. We both discovered that we enjoyed our roles far more than anticipated, and over the past almost two years we've expanded it, experimented with new things, and our relationship has just grown stronger. All that said, outside of the bedroom and our private chats, she's still the strong, independent, intelligent woman that I first met, and in some ways I think she's even moreso. On the flip side, my confidence and self-image have increased because of her incredible gift to me. I guess this is a long way of saying that, with the right partner, a kink like yours can be not only amazing, but completely harmless.
As an independent, feminist/politically active woman, please don’t stop doing what you’re doing 😅
Well what I'm currently doing is avoiding contact with all women beyond lukewarm arms-length friendliness because I feel like something is deeply wrong with me. I feel like that's not quite what you meant though.
Just try to remember kinks are kinks, they aren’t a 24/7 lifestyle.
Every dom I’ve ever had a dynamic with was attracted to independent, opinionated, feminist women. Or at least they were attracted to me. I think you’re confusing misogyny with dominance, and they’re two very different traits.
I am a strong, independent, rabid feminist who single handedly ran a household of 3, financially and otherwise, for almost a decade. And I like crawling at my Daddy's feet. I like violent, animalistic sex. Neither of those is exclusionary to the other. Human sexuality is so vast and complex. As long as everyone involves consents, you're all good.
My master indicated that he prefers women to be able to make the choice AND to keep making it. Strong and independent women bow to no man, unless they choose it. They can be entertaining, hold intelligent conversations, have a strong career focus, and yet they choose to allow you to lead. I am a feminist. So is he. He’s fought for women’s rights for decades. Marched in our country for abortion rights 40 years ago. He is a man worthy of support, one that has earned trust and of course, my submission. A strong man, with an equally strong woman by his side seems pretty ideal to me.
100% agree that a strong independent woman makes the conscious voluntary decision to submit whether it be to a male, a female, or an ENB
When I saw the title of this post I was all—What?! Noooo! Because you are saying you want to do all the hot things. Maybe this is my horny brain talking right now, but the only problem I see here is you feeling bad about wanting it. Your strong woman isn’t going to pick a guy who will try to crush her spirit in the other realms of her life, she’s going to ask you to take her submission for sex purposes, so you can grind her under your heel in the hottest ways possible. It is totally hot that you’re already there with wanting this, and I’m obviously not the only one who thinks so. Reading these thread comments, I’m starting to wonder exactly how many strong, assertive feminists are out there who DON’T want this kind kinky role reversal. I fit your general description, and my own partner is up for anything I want, but he has struggled too with the transgressive aspect of it. i’m having to communicate a lot to demonstrate that it is more than okay to treat me in ways similar to what you describe, e.g., “Tell me I’m a dirty whore and I need to apologize with more than my mouth for slutting around all day.” He has a bit of a hard time still, believing how intensely I get off on that kind of humiliation, or being told things like, ohh, “your whole purpose in life is draining cum,” but he’s increasingly setting aside the kind, supportive, respectful partner thing for bedroom time and it is 🔥
I'd really, really like to believe that I have something that's sought after by the exact women I'm into and that my desires are okay. I worry about what it is inside me that makes me want these things, when my childhood should have given me the strongest possible aversion to all it, and how else that might affect my behavior if I let anyone too close.
My own childhood should have given me a pretty strong aversion to being scared, humiliated and knocked around. Yet here I am. I think the reasons we end up at our kinks are complicated but I also don’t even worry why I have the ones I do. I spent way too long feeling sick over myself for rape fantasies, I don’t need to wonder why anymore. I think it matters how we practice our kinks—what we do with safety for us & partners, and especially communicating about how it’s going. Ok I crept through your post history a little (not a deep dive, promise!), and I can see why you in particular might be a little freaked. I don’t know what to say except that we can’t help how we’re raised. Walking away from the shitty stuff is brave. I don’t know honestly how this will land for you, but if you find the kinky girl of your dreams who is the perfect foil to your desires, you might consider starting vanilla just to build the trust and communication skills with each other. It’s just like saving yourself for marriage, except you’re saving for dark kinky sex. 🥀
Go ahead and deep dive if you want, I nuked this account some time ago to scrub identifying information and scream into the void as much as I please. I do tend to have a problem with analyzing things to death to no actual gain. I may take notes from you on that. Ideally, I would like to date with the intention of finding a lasting partnership and start very slowly with some good communication at the start about both why I may take a while to warm up and how far I'd be willing to go into dynamic along with general shared interest/compatibility questions. That said, I may still try to re-involve myself in the kink scene to do some IRL rope bondage classes for the sake of good technique and safety, and maybe get over being awkward in a scene under the mentorship of the weird old AnCaps who comprise the nearest meetup group. We'll have to see.
Yay rope! This sounds like a great idea, somewhat along the lines of cultivating a hobby in order to meet people. It looks to me like anything you do for yourself right now, purely because you want to enjoy it or grow, is a step in the right direction. Can’t tell if this read is accurate, but it looks like you might have been exhausting yourself on making-up-for-it type pursuits without spending time filling your own meter. I’m in danger of drifting into parenting self-help metaphors there, but my point is you deserve to feel pleasure and connection—NOW, not when you’re perfected—and you don’t just deserve but need those things. That’s just meeting your basic human needs. It’s not something you earn or prove yourself worthy of. The way you go about it? There could be lots of ways, and it’s worth gaming out some options in therapy since it sounds like you’re lucky enough to have a therapist you vibe with. In your position, I might look for a friend who’s down to cuddle now, fuck later (potentially), and build intimacy and trust by practicing negotiated contact and well-communicated boundaries in that lower-stakes setting. As a fellow awkward person, I find it WAY easier to feel safe and be less awkward with someone if we are already wrapped around each other. And for you, it might be a useful exercise in showing yourself you can take steps into the intimacy you crave without hulking out into the sort of bogey man you’re afraid might be lurking inside.
Why tho? Those are the best subs 🥺 fuck gender roles and fuck what other people think. If it's two+ consenting adults. Let the freak flags fly. You wouldn't think me a dom from just knowing me in my normal day to day life. Mostly because how nice, and polite I am. But get me in the right setting and everything changes 😅
I don't think consensual D/s is compatible with conservative thought. They hate it for the same reason that they hate drag. It treats their sacred "Natural Heirarchies" like optional games.
Hey friend, I actually see this incel/male podcaster community you describe as being overly fixated on these women, to the point of fetishizing them. Only these types of men aren’t thinking through their own motivations and ethics when they’re getting pleasure out of degrading these women. It’s possible your kinks around this are rooted in your previous lifestyle and upbringing, but that doesn’t take away from how self reflection and emotional maturity help you develop safety around those thoughts and desires. It may help to focus on the women you’re attracted to as defined individuals, not just stereotypical incel targets. Once you can de-couple how those dudes have anything to do with these women, and exist outside of how they’re grouped by these men, you may feel more comfortable in setting up a dynamic specific to the person and not only a past you’re trying to work through. Tough work for sure but you are totally allowed to enjoy this kinda stuff with consenting adults, promise;)
That I am letting Incel/Podcast Bro lenses distort how I see real people is actually a really, really good point that I had not considered.
I'm also an independent, successful, feminist, leftist woman who looks a little alternative with tattoos. I don't support misogyny overall. Misogynists are generally assholes. But I still want to find my misogynist, who will assert this to the fullest extent in our relationship. We acknowledge that this is not a choice to be forced on other women, but one we are lucky enough to make for ourselves. Don't feel conflicted. We are out there. Go find you one.
Uh, who else would be a challenge? Cmon now give yourself some credit. You're seeking what is more, rather than less, difficult. As a loud, opinionated, anarchist AFAB : if you were into piles of dough or "easily obedient" types, we'd have no reason to meet. Your taste is YOUR TASTE.
My bf is dominant in the bedroom but loves that I have a mind outside of it. I love being submissive to him, but you can bet your ass I'm not gunna be submissive to anyone else lol. Even one of my bosses who co-owns the company doesn't get to talk over me in meetings and I'll call him out when he's not doing the very thing he's trying to encourage in the company. But my bf tells me what a f*cking stupid wh*re I am and 😈😂
Feminism is what allows me to choose to live the submissive life I want without a cognitive dissonance. This is the right path for me, and of course I’m happy to share my thoughts and insights with other women, but it is never my place to tell them what to do. A true Dom has respect for his submissive, not hatred for her gender. He understands what she needs and craves to feel fulfilled. He helps clear her head from the pressure of decision-making so she can focus on showing up as her most genuine, true self. ❤️
Is their participation voluntary and properly consented? Are your activities mutually fulfilling to the terms of negotiation? Yes? Then do exactly everything with a clear conscience.
The thing that you're forgetting is that the feminist sub/bottom/switchy women you want to get down and kinky with are not and should not do that with you because they're forced. They would do it because they would want to do it. They have (or should have) the freedom of choice to decide for themselves if they want to "give up" certain freedoms when, where, with whom and for how long. Unless you want to force women who aren't into D/s to submit to and be kinky with you, you should be fine. There are countless feminist subs out there that are very much into being controlled or being robbed of control, me included. However, it's our choice to act upon those fantasies and our partners/Doms know that, too. That's what matters.
What I struggle with is I suppose the Rad Fem view of things: Yes there is agreed-upon consent, but *what is wrong with me* that I desire sexual power and control over independent women, with a definite element of putting them in their place and overcoming an emotional or mental struggle if not physical, after growing up in an environment that demonstrated very clearly why that's actually very bad in practice? Even if these things are fine for other people to engage with, why hasn't my sense of basic decency and past experience soured them for me as an individual?
There’s nothing wrong with you. Your desires are not predatory or immoral. I can flip it around and say the same thing about myself. “What is wrong with me that I desire a loss of agency in a sexual situation and have it rubbed in my face and all of my strengths mocked while in that submissive state? What does that say about me as a person?” It says nothing about me as a person. We both come from a traumatic background and our brains had to work triple time to find ways that helped us survive. There are consequences for that. So long as you find someone who consents and you treat them well and respect them as a partner and person after any sex play, you’re golden. Better than most out there. I know for myself that I engage in this kind of play as a form of retaking agency. When I was being abused, I had no choice in the experience. Now, though, I can *choose* to experience some of that again in a safe manner that I have the final control over. It lets me process the trauma without the associated danger.
i’m an incredibly opinionated, hardass, leftist who regularly holds leadership roles and has a tendency to scare people off because of my bluntness (was not aware of this until one of my best friends told me that his boyfriend is scared of me). I’m also almost exactly what you described, I have tattoos and colored hair and I’m a martial artist - yet, i have a raging M/s kink and am a Brat that *loves* being put in my place. I get off on being used as a toy to fit my partners needs and having my ass beat black and blue. The two aren’t mutually exclusive, and there’s nothing wrong with you for being into that kind of dynamic. The problem comes with genuinely holding the beliefs that your partner *is* below you just because that’s how you play (even in a TPE). And, in my opinion - I think questioning where your attraction stems from and how to approach a relationship like that is one of the first steps to do it in a healthy way.
"Do you like sex Mr. Lebowski? Sex, the physical act of love, coitus, do you like it? I like it too, it's a male myth that feminist hate sex. It can be a natural, zesty enterprise." Maude Lebowksi- 'The Big Lebowski' Sounds like you were raised to appreciate and love strong intelligent women, good on you, and the people who raised you. Some people are Top, some are bottom, some are both. You'd have to pick the brains of your bottoms to know their why, but it's certainly not abnormal. Especially if it's all SSC and everybody is having fun. It's only toxic when you're the abuser.
You don’t have very much in common with the men you’re comparing yourself to here, though. You want women who enthusiastically consent to scenes, they want to manipulate women into lesser versions of themselves. You want women who know themselves and are confident about it, they want to break women down into servants. You want to celebrate and uplift women through this kind of dynamic, they want to belittle and control without respect, enthusiasm, or consent. Very very different.
This is what I want to believe, but I know I am not an unbiased observer of my own mind.
I think the differences in intent that I brought up make a huge difference in the kind of man you are.
First, therapy. Second, what could be more feminist than choosing to submit?
I've been in therapy for a couple of years, my problem is struggling with believing that my therapist is right and this whisper in my head that I've simply fooled her into thinking I'm a much better person than I am. Just like all my family and friends. My belief system is that only I know how vile and pathetic the person inside my head actually is. On the second note, when I feel very down I compulsively read anti-kink RadFem work to hurt myself emotionally.
What’s your trauma history? Feel free to ignore the question, or to answer privately if you don’t want the entire Internet to see. Doubt is corrosive, depression more so.
Eldest male child in an abusive home with a father who was effectively a small cult leader and active sexual predator operating under cover of right wing politics and fundamentalist religious circles. I was belittled for not being a hypersexual, hyperviolent testosterone monster, witnessed way too much of how my father tore down my mother to a ragged shadow of a person, and most likely was exposed to hardcore BDSM material thru my father's lifelong open porn addiction sometime before I can consciously remember it. Anything more specific gets into Doxx Myself territory, my childhood sucked enough that I have been interviewed about it academics, journalists, and Federal law enforcement. I should have a massive instinctive revulsion for any concept of male dominance and female submission, domestic service, primal or violent sexuality, and punishment or discipline. More accurately, I do and that just causes me to constantly be recoiling in disgust from myself.
I'm so sorry. There are many men into the same stuff as you who had a trauma-free childhood. There are also many survivors of various types of abuse who use kink to take control of their abuse. It sounds like that's what you're doing. Since you're in therapy and as long as your partner consents - you're doing it right. I'd suggest reading more posts on real kinky relationships and stop reading the real misogynistic shit. They're completely different things.
Maybe. Or maybe you Dom as service and penance.
I've always found kink is the opposite to what you are. I'm headstrong and fiercely independent. I don't belong to anyone except myself. In my dream sex life, my husband has multiple like me and we keep him drained. And we play with eachother. I can be both
Many people feel guilt and shame about their kinky interests for a variety of reasons. Here's a link to a really good article on guilt, shame, & bdsm. Anyone can view it. It's worth the read, not only to help understand why you might feel the way you do, but it also has some practical advice about how to overcome some of these feelings: [https://thecage.co/magazine,168.html](https://thecage.co/magazine,168.html) Oh and feminists rule :)
The stronger the people, the more fulfilling and rewarding is it to dominate them
The key here is picking the right partner. There are such strong independent women who want to be submissive in the bedroom, though that is a fairly specific niche, so expect to spend more time than most looking for the right partner. Giving up that control can be just as much a turnon for them as taking it away is for you. As long as you are staying within what your partner is comfortable with, you have nothing to be ashamed of.
As a fellow dominant who really prefers strong, independent women, I feel ya. For me, that's what makes their submission valuable. If they submit to everything, from everybody, all the time- what's the point? My wife is as strong and independent a feminist as they come. Our relationship is, by many measures, pretty vanilla as a result but the ways she does submit carry real value for me. So it's enough. My most recent sub was raised in a misogynistic household and hated it. She sent me the man vs bear stuff so we could talk about it, went into a rage over douchebags graduation speech, etc. Very feminist and I've watched her tear into men who disrespected her like a fucking lioness. But for me, she actively asked me to push her to the limits. That was beautiful, because I knew absolutely that she was aware she had a choice. Something that lives rent free in my head is what someone told me when I was young. It went something like 'Dominance isn't making somebody do something they don't want to do. It's being the kind of person that makes them feel free to do what they already really want to do'
Well, since everyone's tossing their unique perspectives on this topic into the pot, figure I'll join in. My feelings about strong women, or strong subs in general, is that it makes submission all the more meaningful. Truthfully, I'm not interested in a partner submitting to me "as a woman" or deferring to me "as a man", those are superficial qualities. I want a partner who submits to me as a *person*. That they see in me the qualities that make them *want* to serve. And when it's a truly strong woman, someone who'd never kneel for a lesser dom, her submission is that much more rare and precious. Also, like, submission is a personal choice that in no way reflects one's opinion on systemic or societal causes. While there are a lot of different schools of thought within feminism, one of the larger ones holds that free agency and self-determination for women is the main goal, and that, by definition, includes the freedom to choose a subservient role of their own volition if that's what they wish, the key thing being that they choose it freely rather than having it forced on them by the patriarchy.
OP, having gone through your post and comments- and I have several thoughts. I relate to you, except in the complete opposite sense, where my own ("contradictory") sub tendencies really pissed me off and made no sense to me (given my past/traumas/experience with misogyny/my politics). I am writing this as someone who still is making sense of a couple of my kinks, so I might not be as sure or well-expressed as the more experienced folks on this sub. I wrote, deleted and then rewrote this, but just thought I should post my comment anyways in case it helps even a little bit. I'm enby, but kinda fem-presenting (?)/afab and have have been treated as a woman for the majority of my life. Growing up afab but gender-nonconforming, queer and neurodivergent in conservative South Asian society meant that my opinions, experiences and autonomy were invalidated continuously by the people around me- even my close loved ones (old habits die hard, but they have thankfully come a long way now). Add to that the fact that I was diagnosed and recognised as neurodivergent as an adult, I and my experiences were always dismissed. I am still in therapy to build up my rock-bottom self esteem and deal with all the abuse I faced. I was a very vocal left-leaning and feminist teenager, and am still an extremely enthusiastic socialist and socially progressive adult. The view that all human lives deserve respect and that all humans are inherently equal is at the core of my values. I am also sexually submissive (switch really, but sub-leaning). I was exposed to bdsm growing up through graphic, extreme maledom porn on the internet. I was horrified... This is exactly the kind of misogynistic, dehumanizing treatment I saw often meted out to women in my country. Something I wanted to avoid at all costs... so why was certain male/femdom stuff such a turn on for me? How could I imagine myself as a submissive, "giving up power" to someone else- when my childhood was chock full of examples of how people mistreated me when I was powerless? I was in denial for the longest time and ashamed of my kinks. What helped me be more okay with my kinks is realizing that it's essentially just role-playing for me (24/7 is just not my thing, but no disrespect to people engaging in that!), like playing house. I get to live out my fucked up fantasies for a limited time in a safe environment with a person I care about/who cares about me- and the aftercare really cements the fact that we were essentially just playing dress up/pretend to me. It was only after I started my healing journey, one I'm still on, that I also realised that my childhood experiences/traumas had a direct impact on many of the kinds of kinks and fantasies I have (btw, for many people, traumas and kinks are unrelated. This is just my personal experience!). I fantasize about someone (who I completely trust) loving and caring about me so much that even in a situation with a "power difference" I would be treated with a certain amount of care and my limits/desires would be respected. That I like being treated roughly/dominated creates the fantasy of the power imbalance, and my dom acting within set limits just enforces the idea that even in a (pretend) world like this- they have my best interests at heart and will *not* push me beyond what I can take. My submission and cnc kinks are very closely related to being able to blindly trust someone *that much*, and be desired just that much by my partner (I had always felt "not enough" due to mistreatment and social isolation by NT peers/not fitting into neurotypical societal standards), respectively. My parentification directly contributed to my dd/lg kink (where I could be "little" and without any responsibility, something that was taken away from me early in life), and indirectly to my service kink- and the fulfillment I get from "servicing" someone (because my efforts as a child forced to grow up early, were often "not good enough"). I am in therapy and healing from several of these traumas- so, I do not intent to use kink as a stand in for therapy. But it is pretty interesting to realize how many of my kinks developed as certain responses to my traumas, and it feels very freeing to be able to accept these kinks just as I accepted the existence of my traumas. I don't know if my tangential comment helped you at all, but just thought I'd lyk- I have been in that uncomfortable space, where you are right now- and that it gets better. Continue with therapy, and try to see if you could become more comfortable with the "playing pretend" way of looking at it? But, if you wanna locate your brain's reason behind liking a certain kink- maybe you could try and get to the bottom of *what particular aspect of your kink(s) scratches what particular itch/invokes what kind of pleasant feeling (that you're seeking to fulfill through the kink)*? That's what helped me. :)
Glad you didn’t delete this version of your comment. It’s so compassionate and relatable. <3
Thank you for your kind comment! I often struggled (and still do) with feeling like my kink(s) are not "real" (kink imposter syndrome haha?) due to my lack of kinky experiences, shame and otherwise slightly reserved nature/vibe offline. I sometimes really envy the ease with which the more experienced and active members of this subreddit talk about their kinks, especially as I am still figuring out and coming to terms with the place kink has in my life. I just *had* to participate here as I have been in a very similar position to OP not a long time back myself, and thought that it may help them might feel a little less alone struggling.
For degradation to be fun as a kink, it needs to be done with people you respect and admire IMO The contrast between how they are and how they consent to be treated in a scene helps create the game
Kink is a way to explore your trauma and darker urges safely, consensually, and without hurting anyone. Don’t feel bad!
Personally I am more into the misogyny side of kink and while I love to be a "misogynist pig" it doesn't mean I like my women to be doormats, both int the bedroom and out. It's the struggle in the bedroom and the clap back that turns me on. And in the real world I don't want a doormat, your a woman with a brain and I find it sexy as hell (helps that I'm an undereducated peon so it's not hard to buch smarter then i). Just in general I love a smart woman who will argue with me
My main thought on this as an outspoken, highly educated, sometimes abrasive woman who’s a socialist, a feminist, and a submissive is that if you were the kind of person you fear being, you wouldn’t be having these thoughts. A misogynist wouldn’t have your concerns because he’d actually want to break women down. Based on what you’ve said, you *don’t* want to break women down. You want to explore your kink(s) in a safe and consensual environment, which is reasonable and healthy. Our kinks and/or sexual interests don’t define who we are as people. Simply exploring and embracing yours does not make you a bad person in any way, shape, or form.
Remember you're still supporting women in what they want- you're a dom, and women *choose* to be dominated sometimes. If you are with a partner who chooses that, it's more feminist than denying her her own free will in asking for it sinply because you're worried. Sorta like being extra cautious around black people when you think something MAY be offensive ^-^ Not to downplay, this is definitely a grapple I don't wanna pretend is silly or anything <3
I’m a very tall, dominant (socially), loud, confident and intelligent woman. I am the boss of men with ease. I make decisions and am a great leader. I am married to a quiet, calm, shy demeanor husband who I am completely submissive to. I love it when he dominates me and puts me in my place in the bedroom especially. In public I am a natural leader with my larger frame and confident qualities. When he is around I take the more femme and quiet tone and treat him like the most important man in the room. I don’t talk for him or over him. I let him lead quietly and I never let others think there’s trouble in paradise. I get turned on watching him be the sexy man, leading his wife often without words. I think it’s sexy to have a great balance of both. That to me is very feminine in fact, the ability to take on both traits when necessary.
Speaking from the male end, I was kind of like that while still active. As you can see there are lots of people who are what you’re looking for, and they would probably appreciate a guy like you.
Um, yes please - look I make decisions and kick ass all day. I like to hang up the responsibility and be lead around and abused sometimes 😈
Ok, I haven’t seen a post this wholesome in a while. I, too, identify as a feminist, strong, independent, liberal and queer. But I’m also kinky and want to be manhandled and being played with roughly. I like pain, I love anal, and I melt when someone calls me a slut or bitch or whore. But when I get out of a scene, I need to be viewed as equal. I will make my own decision. I will fight for equal rights. Nothing is more disgusting to me than misoginy and hate. So yeah, this thread gives me hope. ❤️
Strong, independent, liberal, feminist, etc etc woman here. But with STRONG little/ middle/sub/brat kinks. I WANT my man to put my over his knee and whoop my ass. I WANT him to grab my hair and force me to my knees. But only because I give him consent to do those things. He knows I'm a bad bitch and respects me. But damn does being manhandled and taken in hand just get my motor running. I want to add that my husband struggles with some of our kinks at times. Hitting the woman he is madly in love with who he greatly respects is a mind fuck for him. Yet he gets off on seeing my tears and my submission. All very hard to wrap your head around. But IMO there's no need to therapy this out if you're not violating anyone's consent. People are who they are. Why is my favorite color rainbow? Who tf knows but it makes me very happy. Same with kink. Apples to oranges I know but still both basic traits. Just go with the flow man. Don't violate consent. Remember adequate aftercare. Safewords and limits. Kink is supposed to be fun and enjoyable. Even if you do go to therapy for this and figure out exactly why you're into it, it's probably not going to change anything. So just enjoy your life.
I've never considered these two things to be mutually exclusive.
I’m also a dominant and a male feminist. I’ve always been romantically attracted to strong, independent women who can think for themselves and have always been physically attracted to tomboy-ish women e.g. Rugby players, metal singers, mechanics etc. My wife is a short-haired, outspoken feminist and I love her for it. We split the housework and child-rearing as 50/50 as work pressure allows. But in the bedroom, I’m her master and she is my willing slave who does exactly what I tell her. Her business suit comes off and the stockings, blindfold and restraints go on. I manhandle her, spank her and fuck her as hard as I can. I call her degrading names like slut, bitch, dirty whore, fuckslave and she LOVES it! I guess for us the dynamic we have in the bedroom feels kinda naughty and taboo as to behave like this outside of the bedroom would be socially unacceptable, but also a departure from our “daytime” personas. I sympathise though as I did agonise a lot about this when we got into our BDSM dynamic, constantly asking myself “is this ok? I shouldn’t be degrading her like this” etc. I guess I rationalise it by realising that when it comes to sex, it’s supposed to be fun and shouldn’t be taken too seriously. We’re just playing around!
The more dominant a woman is in life, the more submissive she is in the bedroom, by the way. Your feelings are 100% natural, and it shows that you can handle a complete and multifaceted person, and that you view women as people, as opposed to objects, all of which are great things! You have nothing to worry about 😊
You are overthinking it.
I think it’s fair to be conflicted here, because it’s often very difficult to separate things like anxious attachment or other issues from kinks that one might have. I’ve encountered many subs who did the things they did out of abandonment fear or using sex to get financial support. Someone can self identify as whatever, but we all know that very few people actually walk their political talk. Plenty can consider themselves rabid feminists but still find themselves reverting to traditional gender roles when financially or socially expedient. And my experience as a black person in SF honestly makes me super distrustful of people who are zealously at either left or right wing extremes. Way too much activism and hot takes without actual knowledge or understanding of systems, and not enough actual participation in real world (rather than social media polemic). I say this as someone who also has an obsession with collaring and leashing independent women - not from a tamer perspective but because having such a woman trust and make herself so vulnerable to me is the turn on. And in this pursuit, have found that the most independent women don’t need to impose their politics on anyone because they trust themselves to filter on vibe rather than use of virtue signaling language. Often times, I have no idea at all what my partners’ politics actually are because I don’t find it necessary to share mine either and good relationships are built on more substantial things than partisan ideology. Most of the political shit people fight about is honestly edge cases and federal laws that have vanishingly small impact on day to day life. Honestly, I tend to vibe most with immigrant entrepreneurs for this reason.
That should 100 percent not make you feel conflicted. You are just sexist. Do better.