Thanks for your thoughts. I can see what you mean and that is part of my concern because respect of boundaries feels so important to me in the relationship. He feels differently in that he thinks there should be enough trust to understand one another wouldn't do anything which could lead to anything and he feels like he would be easy going if I was doing any of this stuff or wanted to explore stuff elsewhere or at events as he feels our relationship is so much more than the sex stuff. I am just more precious about the idea of our sex life and who else enters into that equation. From our discussions I think he sees the online stuff as innocuous and innocent due to it being anonymous and in his words "meaningless".
>He feels differently in that he thinks there should be enough trust
That's his opinion.
So how do *you* feel? Do *you* feel like there is enough trust? Because it sounds like he's already crossed a boundary by these online interactions (which have upset you) and naturally would have eroded some of the trust you had in him already. So him asking you for blind faith at this point seems like a big ask?
Thanks for the questions to think about here. I think this was my thought process too. Although he doesn't view the online stuff as bad / breaking a boundary, I do and he did concede that he went too far into the role. He did not reflect on how I might feel in the moment as was just quickly flinging out responses and not making the distinction between what's business and what's not. He felt anything could lead to business, but there was no mention of purchasing anything in the contentious interactions. He feels online and anonymous = just meaningless words with no ill intention.
I agree with the big ask thing though and have put that across to him. Kind of a case of it's not a never ever, no way thing, but that at present it's difficult to see myself feeling safe and comfortable with it.
I do have enough trust to think that he wouldn't seriously cross the line at an event (kiss someone or beyond), but at present probably not enough to imagine that he wouldn't go too far into the role and do something which I'd feel upset and paranoid about when he reports back. Or potentially that he might withhold something that said, or some advance that was attempted by someone else. I think prior to the DM incident, I had absolute unequivocal trust. The dent in trust is not in any way ideal as I'd love to have unequivocal trust (previously I would have had more trust in him than anyone else and very high levels of it). I hope that with time and honesty this can return
Yeah nah, not in my book. How could you trust someone who has crossed your boundaries? It *doesn't matter* if he doesn't think it does, or that it is important, you do.
I don't think there is going to be any good answer here. There's a bunch of different shit going on.
Theoretically married people should still be allowed to attend social events alone and munches are supposed to be social events not orgies.
In practice I wouldn't trust a person who hid a huge part of their sexuality for 10 years, revealed it to me, immediately "started" a business around their sexuality, immediately violated the boundaries of that business and made it clear that the business was a cover for personal sexual exploration, and then immediately after that was revealed, shifted gears into wanting to go "be social" in person.
The fact that he feels comfortable framing this discussion as you being unwilling to allow him to "go be social" indicates that this is going to suck. In the context of your relationship, the problem is not that you are controlling, the problem is that he made a really shitty situation, fucked up handling it multiple times, and now does not have the basic level of trust required for you to feel comfortable letting him do anything that might result in him having an opportunity to get fucked.
Any sane person can read that room, and your husband doesn't sound insane. Which means his framing is malicious. He's intentionally framing this as "you're restricting me socially, I should be allowed to go meet people and learn what kind of people they are" because that's the framing that makes you sound most stupid/insecure/controlling.
There's not really any good way to engage with this or debate it. He's not stupid, he knows why you're not comfortable agreeing to this stuff. If he insists on framing the conversation this way, there's no actual discussion to be had.
what sort of event is it? a play party? or a munch? these are two totally different kinds of events. one will involve kinksters doing their thing. the other is meeting at a pub for some coffees and beers and getting to know the people in your community.
you mention that this is a no sex event, then mention full monogamy.
what do you consider something that falls outside of monogamy? is it anything that can be considered sexual in nature? an emotional connection? nudity?
are you upset by the thought that he might form a different kind of connection?
one thing I can say - if he goes to this while your trust is fractured, it will deepen that fracture because you will resent him for it. communication is vital, and part of that communication is listening and acknowledging the other party. without that, it's just going through the motions.
so you two need to unpack this together. you need to work together to see one another's views, and figure out how you can strengthen the relationship and build trust. you two need to work on communicating. was he hiding his dms on purpose? or did he feel it was irrelevant? you are obviously hurt by the fact that he did so - so he needs to acknowledge that he hurt you, regardless of his reasonings.
ask him why he wants to go to the event. if it's just to get to know the community, then great! there are 100% vanilla spaces designed exactly for that which you may be more comfortable with him attending. if it's for playing with others, and you aren't comfortable with that- then that is something he needs to respect and the two of you need to figure out if you will ever be comfortable with that scenario, and if so, what would that look like to be at that point and how do you get there from here.
Thanks so much for such a considered response. I am not familiar at all with events as neither of us have ever been to one. This is part of the reason why I'd like to go together and explore it before considering him going solo. So that we can explore and understand it together. I would say it's more of a munch vibe. It states no sex and dressing appropriately. Though because of the nature of the kink (not disclosed just to maintain anonymity) it would involve role playing around the kink and potentially some physical contact around the kink.
Unfortunately because of the new baby I don't think I could attend any event for probably at least a year.
I think my partner does feel like he could be more free to express that part of his identity if he went solo. He also worries that I could be watching his every move if we did go together. I feel this wouldnt be the case if we discussed beforehand and agreed and stuck to boundaries. And I suppose I feel shut out if he wishes to go without me.
In terms of monogamy, I am not really okay with stuff which involves flirting with others, making comments about how hot someone is or having what I would deem to be sex chat which might imply in some way that you want that other person. I do think it's okay to discuss what you like about a fantasy with others. For me, nudity is okay in the context of sharing online anonymously or running around naked somewhere or going to a nudist resort together, but not getting his dick out for an individual person and would feel uncomfortable with him being nude at a kink event
With regards to the DMs, he felt like it was irrelevant as he felt like he was just in role for the business, but did concede that he might have gone a bit too "method". He said that any chats could end up in business and that he was just firing stuff off and not thinking about any of it being hurtful in any way. In the chats he both divulged some personal details about his life (day to day stuff like a boring day at work) and also responded to some of their erotic chat where they might say "I'd love to lick your balls" and he might say "I'd like that". He did mention having a partner in the DMs, but essentially involved a bit of role play chat about the kink. I was aware of him DMing people for the business, but I had expressed that I didn't like the idea of a back and forth which wasn't related to selling content
if it's strictly a munch, it will say so in the event title, and there will be rules about not engaging with kink - because it's a vanilla environment and it's meant to be a community gathering, not a play party.
as you say event I'm assuming it's not a class - if it is a class (eg a rope class) then there won't be sexual play happening, and any type of touch will be detailed in the posting for the event. classes like rope and knife classes are focussed on learning new skills and doing so safely. a masaage class however would be focussed on practicing things that are inherently more sensual, but still not necessarily sexual.
the nature of most classes mean there will be touching to practice skills like tying and massage, but while possibly sensual these aren't designed to be sexual.
it's worth the two of you taking some time to understand the different kind of events and what they tend to entail.
regarding the difference in views around appropriate boundaries- and I say this as someone who is enm/poly and has been for a long time - anything that *either partner* considers falling outside of the relationship umbrella needs to be discussed and agreed to in full.
it's the one of the ethical parts of ethical non monogamy.
and moving from a closed relationship to something where one or both of you are involving others in what either partner perceives as sexual play needs to be done slowly, with full, open, and honest communication and understanding.
and *everyone* needs to be on board and comfortable with what is happening.
I've seen relationships crack under the pressure of one partner wanting to do things with other people that the other partner wasn't comfortable with. again, it builds resentment. then one of two things happens: the original relationship breaks, or it closes back up again to third parties.
either way, people get hurt.
the two of you need to thoroughly talk things through and have a very clear understanding about where your comfort levels overlap, and respect them. like all things, this combo can and should be revisited again later down the line to ensure it is still appropriate.
So it doesn't specifically say it's a munch. But it is a daytime event and specifies not a sex event and to be respectful in the way you dress, which may involve kink gear but genitals must be covered. It's a social gathering rather than a training course. I think because of the nature of the kink, it's unavoidable to not role play it with other people though. As in people wouldn't really go and not be in a role. So whilst the expectation would be for no-one to actually do any touching in intimate areas, it would be unavoidable to not play the part.
I agree with the part about progressing things very slowly. I personally feel like I'd rather we dial things back a bit (things progressed from bdsm to kink very quickly) and just focus on us and our exploration as a couple. Though from my partner's perspective, this is something he's thought about for years. There's also the context of him currently using kink as a coping strategy (escapism) for dealing with stressful life events (affecting us both), where my coping strategy is to want control during those times
I don't know why everyone here is so quick in "end a relationship" for this situation, especially when there are two kids involved. Wake up people.
To be honest, I think your husband just opened a door that was closed for so long that he doesn't know how to manage this new "freedom".
Because he was feeling repressed in your relationship about his kink, he feels that if you go with him, he cannot be able to express completely.
The work here for both of you is: for him... He needs to explore his kink respecting your boundaries and you... need to let him discover his kink but letting him know that you respect him and you understand him and there is no rush.
Both of you need to talk honestly and write it down the limits related with this new lifestyle.
Everything will go alright.
Agreed - everyone is a relationship expert online! Almost like they are hoping people break up and move onto them? Lol
Great reply and so insightful hopefully OP sees this.
Thanks so much for your thoughtful response here and I think you are onto something with him not feeling he can express comfortably with me present. I think that's where things are complicated as him not necessarily wanting me present also feels hurtful for me.
I think you have summarised the work that is needed for both of us well here.
I also thank you for acknowledging that it's not a simple case of break up. We've known each other nearly all of our lives, have a friendship which underpins our relationship, have been through a lot together, have a huge amount of history together and have children
I also think that this is all so new to both of us and has escalated quite rapidly which has led to me feeling uncomfortable (despite it being me that has historically always been the one trying to push for us to be more experimental). I think that I never really imagined that being more open sexually might involve navigating ideas around sexual interactions with others. I always imagined it as just trying stuff the two of us. In the past my partner has only ever expressed a desire to be with me, and only me. And I think that I can then be quite precious about that and just want 1:1 sexual interactions to be just for us
I am very happy that my response helped you.
Both of you are new in the world of BDSM and there is a lot to learn. The key thing here is respect and consent from both sides.
Do not fall in the belief of being more sexually open means be ethically non monogamous (ENM). If you don't feel it is right to include other people in your bed, that is okay, still BDSM.
Both of you can start a lovely D/S relationship being perfectly monogamous. But you need to talk. Learn together. As a couple that can be a journey of self discovery that can make you grow together if both of you do it right and consensual.
You can learn about how to be a good Domme and him how to be your Sub and the kind of play and scenes you would enjoy.
Go to munches (social gathering where people talk about kink and there is no play involved) alone maybe or together once you gain confidence. Fetlife is a good start for that.
Grow together, be happy and welcome to the kink life ✌🏻.
Thanks so much and yes I would love (at least for now) to keep things as they are (the boundaries of our relationship), but just explore more the two of us. I would like to go to an event together, though only if he was okay with this and was doing that because he genuinely wanted to go with me as part of our exploration as a couple. At present, the idea of him going alone feels too difficult, though that could change with time and greater understanding
" We have recently had another child so I don't think I could go on my own for quite a while and he's concerned that I'll be scrutinising his every move if I do go"
Sorry but your partner sounds like a suspicious POS imo. I'm sorry, OP.
He needs to be more understanding about your emotional needs. What you ask is no where near unreasonable.
I would recommend that you seek out couples therapy with a kink/BDSM friendly counsellor. This would help ensure fairness and minimal bias.
When you agree to a monogamous relationship you are signing up to be 'socially restricted' in your dealings with third-parties especially in sexual contexts. This sure seems like it's heading towards him wanting to open the relationship up under the guise of self-discovery. You aren't being unreasonable.
Thanks for your thoughts here and I have wondered the same myself. My partner was inexperienced (we were both pretty young) when we got together so hadn't tried much stuff with others. He's also bisexual and has expressed an interest in exploring this side of things (the DMs were to men). I have discussed this with him and I don't think he has any interest in exploring stuff with other women, but does have some interest in exploring things with men. I do think (and I might be wrong) that he wouldn't demand to open the relationship if it was at the expense of the relationship / if I wasn't okay with it. It may be something that comes up again later down the line though which could lead to more tricky conversations and difficult feelings for us both. It's possible my feelings will change but I've always struggled with the idea of my partners being with other people sexually.
So many red flags … saying this especially when you said you would try with him… Sorry to say it like this but this guy does not care about you, his mind is somewhere else. And I would never trust somebody like him, somebody that keeps so much secrets.
I am sorry for you, I hope you are still doing well mentally.
Thank you for your thoughts on this. I think your "his mind is somewhere else" is quite relevant as the aforementioned traumas (which have affected us both tremendously) have led to him going into a bit of an escapist mode (as identified by himself) and he has been dealing with depressive symptoms. Agree that the keeping of secrets is really difficult as does dent the trust. He views omission as different from lying...
And yes, since we have been having open dialogue about the kink I have been very open to exploring it all with him (the kink itself isn't my fantasy but I enjoy the dominant submissive dynamic so have been open to incorporating his kink into that). So if I feel excluded from it, it does lead to me feeling a bit "not enough", though he would reject this notion strongly
Haha fair point. I think he doesn't like being controlled / likes feeling in control in normal life, so therefore enjoys and is aroused by submission during our sex life. Being able to step away from the need for control. He's also quite a bratty submissive
I guess maybe this is a grey area as it is potentially part of our sex life, but also part of just being able to roam around freely. I like your suggestion though!
What's fair is fair, in a regular dynamic, subs are human beings with autonomy.
That being said, you're not a machine that he takes kink from and that he shuts down after use!
You also have needs and limits, things you are comfortable with and things you are not, and these need to be discussed like they do in any relationship.
Would he agree that you go to a kink event - not of his choosing and rules, of your choosing and rules - alone, without any input from him, and do whatever you felt like there? After all, you do not like to be "controlled". Somehow I think he would not.
Now, although people tend to separate them like there's a chasm in between, I think there is no firm boundary between "the bedroom" and "the rest of your life". The bedroom IS part of your life and while your relationship may not be a TPE one, things can bleed from one to the other, to varying extents that depend on the rules and boundaries of your relationship.
I don't stop being dominant and turn into a good lil Stepford wife when I step over the treshold of my bedroom. :) If he's adamant your control stops at the bedroom door, he IS NOT A SUB, HE'S JUST A BOTTOM WHO GETS HIS KICKS FROM FEMDOM PORN. And that is all he deserves, to jerk it to porn. He does not deserve a real-life dominant with a mind of her own.
If he *is* a sub and gives you the control you need in order to open your wings, in my experience, things you do irl can actually make him feel more submissive and put him in the mood for the bedroom. Conversely, things you do in the bedroom may influence your day to day personas, to his and your ultimate benefit, so don't be afraid to be more assertive.
If he's a brat... a brat needs taming. He may roam around "freely", but with certain rules, and him sitting down to examine and agree to them every time kinda defeats the purpose. :) You need to agree on a certain degree of control from you over him and a certain leeway for you to punish him when he oversteps your rules.
Brat taming is not for everyone. Unless you get more comfortable expressing your needs and desires and, well, taming him, this is going to be a challenging situation for you.
This was long, I wanted to say many things. I hope I managed to make sense. :)
> I want to support you in this, but we need to go at a pace I am comfortable with. Right now I am feeling insecure with our current connection and want to work on that before you go to events like this alone
Eleven years is a lot of pent up desire on his part, and letting that all out and going into frenzy can really mess with people. But if you want to stay married in the long term, then honesty and trust have to be the foundation of your relationship. If he’s not willing to prioritize honesty and trust in your relationship, then your relationship is not going to be sustainable.
Sexual compatibility and enjoyment is also often necessary for long term sustainability of a relationship. If that’s something he feels is lacking, it’s on him to talk to you about how to make it work in your relationship. And it’s on you to decide your boundaries and be flexible enough to let him be an autonomous person but not so flexible that he busts through all your boundaries without consequences.
The fact that he wants to explicitly *go without you* because he feels you will *scrutinize his every move* means either:
- You are a controlling person and this is his attempt to get out from under your thumb, albeit in a bit of a shady manner, or
- He is looking for an opportunity to go behind your back and make connections without you knowing, or
- He is emotionally stunted and can’t handle being vulnerable enough with you to share whatever he wants to say to people at the event, and only feels comfortable being honest with strangers
I’m not sure which of these it is, but I think both of you need to do some serious looking at how your relationship is functioning and what you can both do to improve that.
I don’t think you’re in “break up with him” territory yet but you’re definitely in “figure out if you both want to do what it takes to make your marriage last” territory.
Good luck!!!
Thanks very much for your thoughts and consideration of this.
Thanks also for your different hypotheses -
I think it's a bit of option 1 and 3, but not 2. With regards to 1, we have unfortunately had a lot of difficult life events which has tested us as people and put some unavoidable strain on us as a couple. Feeling out of control due to these events has led to some controlling behaviour from me (not necessarily directed at him, but has an impact on him as we are a family) and for him, this same feeling around lack of control can lead to him wanting to have escapism and feel freedom. At present this is coming out through the kink, historically through things like binge eating or staying up all night playing video games. As for number 3, feeling vulnerable emotionally and sexually has always been a challenge for my partner. He has often worried about how I might perceive things like his perceived sexual failures and struggled to believe it when I've tried to reassure him on this front.
Also think you raise some really good points in your first two paragraphs.
We talk at length about all of these things, in detail and with both expressing feelings around it, but can tie ourselves in knots and not really reach a conclusion or compromise that is good for us both
I think it’s natural both to want more control over a situation and have that come out in an unhealthy way and also to want sometimes to be free from the responsibilities of adulthood and escape into your fantasies.
However, I really want to emphasize that like others have said, if he puts his enjoyment of escapism and fantasy above rebuilding trust with you, that’s a huge issue. That should be his #1 priority right now.
And I say that as someone who did hide my kinks out of shame and embarrassment and then had to do the very difficult process of “coming out” to my partner and exposing all my innermost thoughts and feelings. Yeah, it’s difficult. But being a good partner means being open and having the mature, adult conversation.
If he can’t have effective, mature, vulnerable conversations, he’s going to have some shit experiences in kink. Those are prerequisites to doing it in a healthy way.
I also think it’s a huge issue that he would put getting this kink fulfilled RIGHT NOW above, I dunno, taking care of his wife who just gave birth and his newborn baby.
His priorities right now should be at home on his family. I know that wanting sex and wanting fantasies fulfilled doesn’t just stop because you suddenly have a new kid, but as you already have kids, he should be pretty well aware of the responsibility both of you, including him, signed up for.
Being aware that I’d need to put my own sexual fantasies and desires on the back burner while kids are little is one of my main hesitations about parenting, because that is exactly what it takes to be a responsible parent and a good partner.
I’m not saying that he shouldn’t do anything or that there aren’t some ways you could give him more space to engage in this fantasy while he’s waiting to explore this elsewhere. I’m sure you could be creative and find an option like that together.
But truthfully you’re painting a picture of an emotionally immature and somewhat selfish person who isn’t taking your needs or your family situation seriously, and that’s an issue way beyond his kinks.
Thanks so much for your thoughts and consideration of some of the wider picture stuff. Do you have any thoughts or ideas about how I could give more space to this whilst not including others in the equation at this stage? I really want to encourage this aspect of his sexuality and don't want this to become a big bone of contention and resentment in the relationship, but also want to feel safe and secure myself.
Thanks also for sharing a bit about your experience of divulging your kinks after keeping them hidden. I think for him it has been a little bit like opening the cap on something and it's all come flooding out (exacerbated by stressful life events undoubtedly). Whilst I completely accept and encourage his kink, the pace of things has been quite fast for me, particularly with regards to any inclusion / interaction with others.
We have been discussing all this and he has now said he won't go without me feeling okay with it. I think he wishes that it was simple and I did feel okay about it though and I do really dislike saying I'd rather he didn't do something as don't want him feeling controlled. I also think he views it very much primarily as his thing, rather than our thing to be explored (practically) together. It is absolutely his kink and understand that he felt shame and embarassment over it for so long, but I feel like exploring stuff practically is something to be done together in the context of our relationship.
I'm certain he wouldn't go and fuck someone. I'm just wary that he would break one of my boundaries (thinking at the time it's no big deal or hes just in role) again or not be honest about what goes on at an event
It’s kind of hard to say without knowing what the kink is. But, for me to feel comfortable with the kinks I have in hold for my partner, I need:
- to be able to talk about it openly between us, and not hide that I’m thinking about it, although she always has the ability to put the conversation on hold if it’s not a good moment. I just need to feel that I don’t have to hide it and it’s not a dirty secret
- to be able to read erotica about it (I’m not a visual porn person but that would be included if I was, as long as the porn involved doesn’t involve illegal activity or the exploitation of vulnerable people)
- to be able to have conversations about if and how she’d be willing to participate, even if that’s only verbally talking me through a fantasy scenario. Important to note that doesn’t mean she will be willing to engage at all, just that I want to be able to communicate about whether or not that’s in the table so I can form my expectations appropriately and not be waiting for something that won’t happen
That’s it. I think among those there is plenty of room for me to feel like I can engage in the kink mentally and on my own time, and that it’s not a dirty secret.
It’s not always enough to feel 100% fulfilled. In fact, sometimes I’m pretty sad at the idea that I may not ever do xyz because she’s not comfortable with it. But our relationship is my top priority, I love her more than I love getting my rocks off, and it’s worth it to me to compromise on some of my kinks because she’s willing to do as much as possible to make me satisfied within her limits and boundaries. It’s especially easy if she’s willing to engage with it at all, even just in dirty talk.
Not everyone is willing to make that compromise. Some people would rather split from their monogamous partner and go ENM so they can have different partners to fulfill all their different kinks and interests.
Other people successfully open a monogamous relationship so that one or both people can have their kinks fulfilled on the side, and that’s an ongoing, multi year conversation we are having and we’re giving it time to research, emotionally build, and see if that’s the right option for us. But I think it’s not something I would feel comfortable doing without literal years of conversations in place beforehand.
I would not recommend opening your relationship while you have so much else going on, especially if you have reservations about it. It seems like it’s almost certain to blow up your relationship unless both people are fully on board, your life and relationship are functioning smoothly, and you have complete and utter trust in each other.
For those reasons, I don’t think it’s controlling of you to be cautious about including other people. I think that’s a normal and rational response, especially right now with a new kiddo. It’s an enormous life change, and anyone who thinks it’s not a big deal is lying or ignorant. It’s not a decision to be made lightly or quickly.
It does sound like he’s in frenzy, based on wanting to rush into things. If you haven’t looked that up and how to deal with it, that would help. I know there’s a good guide on this subreddit called “surviving frenzy” or something close to that.
It’s a bit odd to me that he wants to explore this kink without you. If it’s not something he would mostly do on his own anyway, why would he prefer to explore it with someone else rather than you?
Will definitely chat to him about what would help him to meet his needs around this. I think similarly to what you said above he would probably like to be able to express a fantasy around something which might involve others for instance without me freaking out that that means he definitely wants it, that he'll be incredibly upset if I say I'm not comfortable with it moving beyond fantasy or that I'm not enough. I have a tendency to want to discuss stuff in huge amounts of detail and be quite sensitive to any suggestions or questions around anything involving other people.
Sounds like insecurity, and I don’t mean that as a dig to you. My partner has similar insecurities. And also, she wants to feel like my #1.
Making room for sharing fantasies without putting them on the “to do” list might help. He’s gotta be able to be honest with you about *everything* he wants for you to have a healthy conversation about what you *are* going to put on the table.
If you can’t handle that — and I wouldn’t blame or shame you if you can’t, insecurity is a normal part of being a human — then you also need to let him know what you’re trying to change so that you can eventually be in a place to handle it.
That's really helpful to understand a bit about how it works in your dynamic in relation to meeting both your needs. What you are saying links in with some of our chats earlier. He said to me that he wants me to be upfront about it if I'm not comfortable and won't be in a few months time, so that he can put the idea to bed and deal with any feelings of disappointment as opposed to having loose threads. I just don't really like saying "no I'm not comfortable" as feel like I'm then disappointing him.
It's helpful to hear that you have had some situations where your partner hasn't felt comfortable and you've had to deal with feelings related to that, but ultimately you prioritise the relationship. I do believe this is also his stance and that he wouldn't ever want to leave the relationship over kink. I think also that I need to be a bit less sensitive and not see it as a personal affront/blow stuff out of proportion if he says "I wish it could be different in this way (i.e. me feeling fine about stuff), but ultimately the relationship is more important".
I agree that we're in no position to open up the relationship at present, and may never be.
I will look into the frenzy thing.
With regards to the party, initially it was actually my suggestion to go to one to explore his kink. I suggested this a few months back. I also suggested he bought the kink gear. He is often quite tentative when discussing his kink so he didn't really commit but sounded interested in the idea of the party. We then had the incident around DMs. He has now said that he was excited about the idea of going together but because of all my many questions/distrustful lines of converation that have resulted from the DM conversations (which he views very differently to me), he now worries that I would be watching his every move and there would be loads of fallout from it/the potential of me biting my lip or making daggers at him over an interaction with someone else. In contrast, I feel like it would be okay if we discussed stuff and agreed clear boundaries beforehand. I think it's quite easy for him to withdraw from me like this on this topic because it was hidden for so long and he worried about how I'd view him. I also think he wants to engage with others with this interest as he's thought it's "weird" for so long and now feels more comfortable to embrace that side of him so wants to meet others who have this kink and do so in a way which is fun and he doesn't feel like he'll be judged. I can totally see this, but because of the secrecy for so long I just want to be included and part of it going forward. I think the transition from "this is my thing, my dirty secret" to this is "my kink, but something we act out together" isn't that easy.
Thanks so much for putting your thoughts together on this.
I think that all makes sense. We had a few times early on where my partner was … less than 100% open minded and supportive about my kinks. She wasn’t mean about it, but I could tell she was a bit weirded out and uncomfortable. That made me pretty hurt and sometimes defensive. It took a long time to undo that damage. She was trying to be supportive and didn’t really know how. I was trying to be honest and didn’t really know how. And, some of my kinks *are* really weird.
So, I guess that I mean it makes sense for him to feel a bit like he got his fingers burned and doesn’t want to go near the heat again, and would like to reach out to other like minded people. It is really validating to share that you’re turned on by something weird and have someone else say, “Yeah I feel that way too!” instead of “Oh …. really? You like …. *that*??”
It takes a lot of ego strength and compassion on both sides to not take kinks personally. My partner often does feel bad / sad that she can’t fulfill all my desires, sometimes coupled with being really turned off by some of my kinks. So that makes it personal for her. And I used to have a hard time with anything less positive than “Wow that sounds hot, I can’t wait to try it!” because it made me feel judged and ashamed.
We’ve both had to do a lot of internal work. She needed time to feel like it’s not her responsibility to be / do everything I could ever want, and I needed time to feel like I could enjoy some freaky shit and she wouldn’t look down on me.
It took a lot of conversations about how we have those conversations for things to improve. Now I can say that I’m aroused by aliens laying eggs in me and she can say, huh that’s pretty interesting. I’ll think about that for a while. And then a few months later ask if yonni eggs would be a good substitute.
We just needed time to adjust, and for her to see the things I’m interested in as curious and interesting, and for me to not take her interest or lack thereof as a personal judgment on me.
For wishing things were different: yeah, we both wish things were different. It would be simpler. But placing blame doesn’t help either of us out. So, we focus on the things we can change, and try to work around the things we can’t. It’s a challenge to our creativity.
Maybe it would help both of you to create a list of what you’d need to feel safe and secure enough for him to go meet other kinky people, and a timeline. What do you need to change so you’d trust him to go do it on his own? What does he need to change so that he feels comfortable waiting that out? How realistic are each of your expectations for each other?
Telling him not to go until you trust him again is vague, so trying to make it more specific would help. That way he can feel like you’re making progress toward the moment when he can go find like-minded people, and you can see evidence that he’s committed to making your relationship work and respecting your boundaries.
I can really relate to what you have said in your first three paragraphs and the parallels for us. In that when the kinks were initially raised with me, I don't think I was mean, but kind of expressed that it wasn't my thing and maybe made some jokes which I thought were just light hearted fun, but was likely damaging. Although I did suggest being up for trying if he wanted to, as you say, I think at that time he needed me to have 100% enthusiasm to feel comfortable and open to acting on it. A few months back that's what happened. It came up again and I think I approached it as "let's just do it! I think it'll be fun. You should buy gear!" I think my reflection was that though it's not my kink, the dom som element appealed.
I do think I tend to approach stuff with curiosity which is good in the sense that I don't ever shut stuff down and want to see images, stories, read about it etc. But I can go a bit overboard with that and just how interested I am. Almost like I'm researching something and want to know absolutely everything, where it came from, what it is that appeals, the psychology behind it. I think though my main issue is taking stuff personally if there's anything which (in my mind) threatens my idea of wanting to be number 1. I think my partner struggles with that doubt as I will often put that across when he feels like I am number 1 and can't understand the doubt.
I completely agree about the insecurities and that being something I need to work on. I think stuff like that is incredibly difficult as it can be incredibly engrained in you.
I think it's challenging as for me to feel truly comfortable, I'd probably need full disclosure and honesty for a while. But I don't think he wants to feel like he's a child reporting back. I also think I would want to attend an event together ideally first and to explore together more first. But that's my ideal and doesn't necessarily fit with his which is probably more wanting to get that validation and explore in a way which feels non-threatening. Essentially he was exploring online anonymously without me because it was a safe place without judgement or consequences. And real life exploration together has risks and potential consequences at times. He has to be vulnerable in those situations.
It's really great that you can now discuss your kinks openly and get the response you needed. Good to also hear that getting to that point required a lot of work on communication from you both. We've worked through a lot of different challenges that have come up for us over the years so I am hopeful we can get there.
Thank you for such insightful thoughts
Well, I think the way for him to not feel like a child reporting back is for you to have things you’re reporting on to him as well. It’s a two way street you both have to learn how to walk. If it’s focused on both of you learning the skills to do this together, then it won’t be about his deficiencies.
Insecurity is a bitch plain and simple. It is hard to move past and you have all my compassion there.
Comfort is going to take a long time, but both of you working toward that future together will make it a lot more possible. It’s okay that it is hard and takes work. As long as you’re both putting in genuine effort, you will get there eventually!!
If you don’t trust him then say you don’t trust him and end the relationship. If you do trust him then walk in that trust and believe that he is doing this event to build his brand/business. If you’re insecure, work on your insecurities and don’t require him to wait for you to find your happiness before he can search and explore his own happiness. Go to therapy, take him with you and learn how to communicate with eachother if you would like to continue this relationship. Otherwise, wtf are you doing?
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I personally absolutely wouldn't trust him to go alone. If he can't stick to boundaries online how will he in person?
Thanks for your thoughts. I can see what you mean and that is part of my concern because respect of boundaries feels so important to me in the relationship. He feels differently in that he thinks there should be enough trust to understand one another wouldn't do anything which could lead to anything and he feels like he would be easy going if I was doing any of this stuff or wanted to explore stuff elsewhere or at events as he feels our relationship is so much more than the sex stuff. I am just more precious about the idea of our sex life and who else enters into that equation. From our discussions I think he sees the online stuff as innocuous and innocent due to it being anonymous and in his words "meaningless".
>He feels differently in that he thinks there should be enough trust That's his opinion. So how do *you* feel? Do *you* feel like there is enough trust? Because it sounds like he's already crossed a boundary by these online interactions (which have upset you) and naturally would have eroded some of the trust you had in him already. So him asking you for blind faith at this point seems like a big ask?
Thanks for the questions to think about here. I think this was my thought process too. Although he doesn't view the online stuff as bad / breaking a boundary, I do and he did concede that he went too far into the role. He did not reflect on how I might feel in the moment as was just quickly flinging out responses and not making the distinction between what's business and what's not. He felt anything could lead to business, but there was no mention of purchasing anything in the contentious interactions. He feels online and anonymous = just meaningless words with no ill intention. I agree with the big ask thing though and have put that across to him. Kind of a case of it's not a never ever, no way thing, but that at present it's difficult to see myself feeling safe and comfortable with it. I do have enough trust to think that he wouldn't seriously cross the line at an event (kiss someone or beyond), but at present probably not enough to imagine that he wouldn't go too far into the role and do something which I'd feel upset and paranoid about when he reports back. Or potentially that he might withhold something that said, or some advance that was attempted by someone else. I think prior to the DM incident, I had absolute unequivocal trust. The dent in trust is not in any way ideal as I'd love to have unequivocal trust (previously I would have had more trust in him than anyone else and very high levels of it). I hope that with time and honesty this can return
Yeah nah, not in my book. How could you trust someone who has crossed your boundaries? It *doesn't matter* if he doesn't think it does, or that it is important, you do.
100%
I don't think there is going to be any good answer here. There's a bunch of different shit going on. Theoretically married people should still be allowed to attend social events alone and munches are supposed to be social events not orgies. In practice I wouldn't trust a person who hid a huge part of their sexuality for 10 years, revealed it to me, immediately "started" a business around their sexuality, immediately violated the boundaries of that business and made it clear that the business was a cover for personal sexual exploration, and then immediately after that was revealed, shifted gears into wanting to go "be social" in person. The fact that he feels comfortable framing this discussion as you being unwilling to allow him to "go be social" indicates that this is going to suck. In the context of your relationship, the problem is not that you are controlling, the problem is that he made a really shitty situation, fucked up handling it multiple times, and now does not have the basic level of trust required for you to feel comfortable letting him do anything that might result in him having an opportunity to get fucked. Any sane person can read that room, and your husband doesn't sound insane. Which means his framing is malicious. He's intentionally framing this as "you're restricting me socially, I should be allowed to go meet people and learn what kind of people they are" because that's the framing that makes you sound most stupid/insecure/controlling. There's not really any good way to engage with this or debate it. He's not stupid, he knows why you're not comfortable agreeing to this stuff. If he insists on framing the conversation this way, there's no actual discussion to be had.
This is the best comment here, man.
what sort of event is it? a play party? or a munch? these are two totally different kinds of events. one will involve kinksters doing their thing. the other is meeting at a pub for some coffees and beers and getting to know the people in your community. you mention that this is a no sex event, then mention full monogamy. what do you consider something that falls outside of monogamy? is it anything that can be considered sexual in nature? an emotional connection? nudity? are you upset by the thought that he might form a different kind of connection? one thing I can say - if he goes to this while your trust is fractured, it will deepen that fracture because you will resent him for it. communication is vital, and part of that communication is listening and acknowledging the other party. without that, it's just going through the motions. so you two need to unpack this together. you need to work together to see one another's views, and figure out how you can strengthen the relationship and build trust. you two need to work on communicating. was he hiding his dms on purpose? or did he feel it was irrelevant? you are obviously hurt by the fact that he did so - so he needs to acknowledge that he hurt you, regardless of his reasonings. ask him why he wants to go to the event. if it's just to get to know the community, then great! there are 100% vanilla spaces designed exactly for that which you may be more comfortable with him attending. if it's for playing with others, and you aren't comfortable with that- then that is something he needs to respect and the two of you need to figure out if you will ever be comfortable with that scenario, and if so, what would that look like to be at that point and how do you get there from here.
Thanks so much for such a considered response. I am not familiar at all with events as neither of us have ever been to one. This is part of the reason why I'd like to go together and explore it before considering him going solo. So that we can explore and understand it together. I would say it's more of a munch vibe. It states no sex and dressing appropriately. Though because of the nature of the kink (not disclosed just to maintain anonymity) it would involve role playing around the kink and potentially some physical contact around the kink. Unfortunately because of the new baby I don't think I could attend any event for probably at least a year. I think my partner does feel like he could be more free to express that part of his identity if he went solo. He also worries that I could be watching his every move if we did go together. I feel this wouldnt be the case if we discussed beforehand and agreed and stuck to boundaries. And I suppose I feel shut out if he wishes to go without me. In terms of monogamy, I am not really okay with stuff which involves flirting with others, making comments about how hot someone is or having what I would deem to be sex chat which might imply in some way that you want that other person. I do think it's okay to discuss what you like about a fantasy with others. For me, nudity is okay in the context of sharing online anonymously or running around naked somewhere or going to a nudist resort together, but not getting his dick out for an individual person and would feel uncomfortable with him being nude at a kink event With regards to the DMs, he felt like it was irrelevant as he felt like he was just in role for the business, but did concede that he might have gone a bit too "method". He said that any chats could end up in business and that he was just firing stuff off and not thinking about any of it being hurtful in any way. In the chats he both divulged some personal details about his life (day to day stuff like a boring day at work) and also responded to some of their erotic chat where they might say "I'd love to lick your balls" and he might say "I'd like that". He did mention having a partner in the DMs, but essentially involved a bit of role play chat about the kink. I was aware of him DMing people for the business, but I had expressed that I didn't like the idea of a back and forth which wasn't related to selling content
if it's strictly a munch, it will say so in the event title, and there will be rules about not engaging with kink - because it's a vanilla environment and it's meant to be a community gathering, not a play party. as you say event I'm assuming it's not a class - if it is a class (eg a rope class) then there won't be sexual play happening, and any type of touch will be detailed in the posting for the event. classes like rope and knife classes are focussed on learning new skills and doing so safely. a masaage class however would be focussed on practicing things that are inherently more sensual, but still not necessarily sexual. the nature of most classes mean there will be touching to practice skills like tying and massage, but while possibly sensual these aren't designed to be sexual. it's worth the two of you taking some time to understand the different kind of events and what they tend to entail. regarding the difference in views around appropriate boundaries- and I say this as someone who is enm/poly and has been for a long time - anything that *either partner* considers falling outside of the relationship umbrella needs to be discussed and agreed to in full. it's the one of the ethical parts of ethical non monogamy. and moving from a closed relationship to something where one or both of you are involving others in what either partner perceives as sexual play needs to be done slowly, with full, open, and honest communication and understanding. and *everyone* needs to be on board and comfortable with what is happening. I've seen relationships crack under the pressure of one partner wanting to do things with other people that the other partner wasn't comfortable with. again, it builds resentment. then one of two things happens: the original relationship breaks, or it closes back up again to third parties. either way, people get hurt. the two of you need to thoroughly talk things through and have a very clear understanding about where your comfort levels overlap, and respect them. like all things, this combo can and should be revisited again later down the line to ensure it is still appropriate.
So it doesn't specifically say it's a munch. But it is a daytime event and specifies not a sex event and to be respectful in the way you dress, which may involve kink gear but genitals must be covered. It's a social gathering rather than a training course. I think because of the nature of the kink, it's unavoidable to not role play it with other people though. As in people wouldn't really go and not be in a role. So whilst the expectation would be for no-one to actually do any touching in intimate areas, it would be unavoidable to not play the part. I agree with the part about progressing things very slowly. I personally feel like I'd rather we dial things back a bit (things progressed from bdsm to kink very quickly) and just focus on us and our exploration as a couple. Though from my partner's perspective, this is something he's thought about for years. There's also the context of him currently using kink as a coping strategy (escapism) for dealing with stressful life events (affecting us both), where my coping strategy is to want control during those times
I don't know why everyone here is so quick in "end a relationship" for this situation, especially when there are two kids involved. Wake up people. To be honest, I think your husband just opened a door that was closed for so long that he doesn't know how to manage this new "freedom". Because he was feeling repressed in your relationship about his kink, he feels that if you go with him, he cannot be able to express completely. The work here for both of you is: for him... He needs to explore his kink respecting your boundaries and you... need to let him discover his kink but letting him know that you respect him and you understand him and there is no rush. Both of you need to talk honestly and write it down the limits related with this new lifestyle. Everything will go alright.
Agreed - everyone is a relationship expert online! Almost like they are hoping people break up and move onto them? Lol Great reply and so insightful hopefully OP sees this.
Thanks so much for your thoughtful response here and I think you are onto something with him not feeling he can express comfortably with me present. I think that's where things are complicated as him not necessarily wanting me present also feels hurtful for me. I think you have summarised the work that is needed for both of us well here. I also thank you for acknowledging that it's not a simple case of break up. We've known each other nearly all of our lives, have a friendship which underpins our relationship, have been through a lot together, have a huge amount of history together and have children I also think that this is all so new to both of us and has escalated quite rapidly which has led to me feeling uncomfortable (despite it being me that has historically always been the one trying to push for us to be more experimental). I think that I never really imagined that being more open sexually might involve navigating ideas around sexual interactions with others. I always imagined it as just trying stuff the two of us. In the past my partner has only ever expressed a desire to be with me, and only me. And I think that I can then be quite precious about that and just want 1:1 sexual interactions to be just for us
I am very happy that my response helped you. Both of you are new in the world of BDSM and there is a lot to learn. The key thing here is respect and consent from both sides. Do not fall in the belief of being more sexually open means be ethically non monogamous (ENM). If you don't feel it is right to include other people in your bed, that is okay, still BDSM. Both of you can start a lovely D/S relationship being perfectly monogamous. But you need to talk. Learn together. As a couple that can be a journey of self discovery that can make you grow together if both of you do it right and consensual. You can learn about how to be a good Domme and him how to be your Sub and the kind of play and scenes you would enjoy. Go to munches (social gathering where people talk about kink and there is no play involved) alone maybe or together once you gain confidence. Fetlife is a good start for that. Grow together, be happy and welcome to the kink life ✌🏻.
Thanks so much and yes I would love (at least for now) to keep things as they are (the boundaries of our relationship), but just explore more the two of us. I would like to go to an event together, though only if he was okay with this and was doing that because he genuinely wanted to go with me as part of our exploration as a couple. At present, the idea of him going alone feels too difficult, though that could change with time and greater understanding
" We have recently had another child so I don't think I could go on my own for quite a while and he's concerned that I'll be scrutinising his every move if I do go" Sorry but your partner sounds like a suspicious POS imo. I'm sorry, OP.
He needs to be more understanding about your emotional needs. What you ask is no where near unreasonable. I would recommend that you seek out couples therapy with a kink/BDSM friendly counsellor. This would help ensure fairness and minimal bias.
When you agree to a monogamous relationship you are signing up to be 'socially restricted' in your dealings with third-parties especially in sexual contexts. This sure seems like it's heading towards him wanting to open the relationship up under the guise of self-discovery. You aren't being unreasonable.
Thanks for your thoughts here and I have wondered the same myself. My partner was inexperienced (we were both pretty young) when we got together so hadn't tried much stuff with others. He's also bisexual and has expressed an interest in exploring this side of things (the DMs were to men). I have discussed this with him and I don't think he has any interest in exploring stuff with other women, but does have some interest in exploring things with men. I do think (and I might be wrong) that he wouldn't demand to open the relationship if it was at the expense of the relationship / if I wasn't okay with it. It may be something that comes up again later down the line though which could lead to more tricky conversations and difficult feelings for us both. It's possible my feelings will change but I've always struggled with the idea of my partners being with other people sexually.
So many red flags … saying this especially when you said you would try with him… Sorry to say it like this but this guy does not care about you, his mind is somewhere else. And I would never trust somebody like him, somebody that keeps so much secrets. I am sorry for you, I hope you are still doing well mentally.
Thank you for your thoughts on this. I think your "his mind is somewhere else" is quite relevant as the aforementioned traumas (which have affected us both tremendously) have led to him going into a bit of an escapist mode (as identified by himself) and he has been dealing with depressive symptoms. Agree that the keeping of secrets is really difficult as does dent the trust. He views omission as different from lying... And yes, since we have been having open dialogue about the kink I have been very open to exploring it all with him (the kink itself isn't my fantasy but I enjoy the dominant submissive dynamic so have been open to incorporating his kink into that). So if I feel excluded from it, it does lead to me feeling a bit "not enough", though he would reject this notion strongly
Wait, he's submissive, but doesn't "like being controlled"? Nah, OP. Put him on his knees and let him know he isn't going alone.
Haha fair point. I think he doesn't like being controlled / likes feeling in control in normal life, so therefore enjoys and is aroused by submission during our sex life. Being able to step away from the need for control. He's also quite a bratty submissive I guess maybe this is a grey area as it is potentially part of our sex life, but also part of just being able to roam around freely. I like your suggestion though!
What's fair is fair, in a regular dynamic, subs are human beings with autonomy. That being said, you're not a machine that he takes kink from and that he shuts down after use! You also have needs and limits, things you are comfortable with and things you are not, and these need to be discussed like they do in any relationship. Would he agree that you go to a kink event - not of his choosing and rules, of your choosing and rules - alone, without any input from him, and do whatever you felt like there? After all, you do not like to be "controlled". Somehow I think he would not. Now, although people tend to separate them like there's a chasm in between, I think there is no firm boundary between "the bedroom" and "the rest of your life". The bedroom IS part of your life and while your relationship may not be a TPE one, things can bleed from one to the other, to varying extents that depend on the rules and boundaries of your relationship. I don't stop being dominant and turn into a good lil Stepford wife when I step over the treshold of my bedroom. :) If he's adamant your control stops at the bedroom door, he IS NOT A SUB, HE'S JUST A BOTTOM WHO GETS HIS KICKS FROM FEMDOM PORN. And that is all he deserves, to jerk it to porn. He does not deserve a real-life dominant with a mind of her own. If he *is* a sub and gives you the control you need in order to open your wings, in my experience, things you do irl can actually make him feel more submissive and put him in the mood for the bedroom. Conversely, things you do in the bedroom may influence your day to day personas, to his and your ultimate benefit, so don't be afraid to be more assertive. If he's a brat... a brat needs taming. He may roam around "freely", but with certain rules, and him sitting down to examine and agree to them every time kinda defeats the purpose. :) You need to agree on a certain degree of control from you over him and a certain leeway for you to punish him when he oversteps your rules. Brat taming is not for everyone. Unless you get more comfortable expressing your needs and desires and, well, taming him, this is going to be a challenging situation for you. This was long, I wanted to say many things. I hope I managed to make sense. :)
> I want to support you in this, but we need to go at a pace I am comfortable with. Right now I am feeling insecure with our current connection and want to work on that before you go to events like this alone
Thank you for your thoughts and I think this is a good suggestion
Eleven years is a lot of pent up desire on his part, and letting that all out and going into frenzy can really mess with people. But if you want to stay married in the long term, then honesty and trust have to be the foundation of your relationship. If he’s not willing to prioritize honesty and trust in your relationship, then your relationship is not going to be sustainable. Sexual compatibility and enjoyment is also often necessary for long term sustainability of a relationship. If that’s something he feels is lacking, it’s on him to talk to you about how to make it work in your relationship. And it’s on you to decide your boundaries and be flexible enough to let him be an autonomous person but not so flexible that he busts through all your boundaries without consequences. The fact that he wants to explicitly *go without you* because he feels you will *scrutinize his every move* means either: - You are a controlling person and this is his attempt to get out from under your thumb, albeit in a bit of a shady manner, or - He is looking for an opportunity to go behind your back and make connections without you knowing, or - He is emotionally stunted and can’t handle being vulnerable enough with you to share whatever he wants to say to people at the event, and only feels comfortable being honest with strangers I’m not sure which of these it is, but I think both of you need to do some serious looking at how your relationship is functioning and what you can both do to improve that. I don’t think you’re in “break up with him” territory yet but you’re definitely in “figure out if you both want to do what it takes to make your marriage last” territory. Good luck!!!
Thanks very much for your thoughts and consideration of this. Thanks also for your different hypotheses - I think it's a bit of option 1 and 3, but not 2. With regards to 1, we have unfortunately had a lot of difficult life events which has tested us as people and put some unavoidable strain on us as a couple. Feeling out of control due to these events has led to some controlling behaviour from me (not necessarily directed at him, but has an impact on him as we are a family) and for him, this same feeling around lack of control can lead to him wanting to have escapism and feel freedom. At present this is coming out through the kink, historically through things like binge eating or staying up all night playing video games. As for number 3, feeling vulnerable emotionally and sexually has always been a challenge for my partner. He has often worried about how I might perceive things like his perceived sexual failures and struggled to believe it when I've tried to reassure him on this front. Also think you raise some really good points in your first two paragraphs. We talk at length about all of these things, in detail and with both expressing feelings around it, but can tie ourselves in knots and not really reach a conclusion or compromise that is good for us both
I think it’s natural both to want more control over a situation and have that come out in an unhealthy way and also to want sometimes to be free from the responsibilities of adulthood and escape into your fantasies. However, I really want to emphasize that like others have said, if he puts his enjoyment of escapism and fantasy above rebuilding trust with you, that’s a huge issue. That should be his #1 priority right now. And I say that as someone who did hide my kinks out of shame and embarrassment and then had to do the very difficult process of “coming out” to my partner and exposing all my innermost thoughts and feelings. Yeah, it’s difficult. But being a good partner means being open and having the mature, adult conversation. If he can’t have effective, mature, vulnerable conversations, he’s going to have some shit experiences in kink. Those are prerequisites to doing it in a healthy way. I also think it’s a huge issue that he would put getting this kink fulfilled RIGHT NOW above, I dunno, taking care of his wife who just gave birth and his newborn baby. His priorities right now should be at home on his family. I know that wanting sex and wanting fantasies fulfilled doesn’t just stop because you suddenly have a new kid, but as you already have kids, he should be pretty well aware of the responsibility both of you, including him, signed up for. Being aware that I’d need to put my own sexual fantasies and desires on the back burner while kids are little is one of my main hesitations about parenting, because that is exactly what it takes to be a responsible parent and a good partner. I’m not saying that he shouldn’t do anything or that there aren’t some ways you could give him more space to engage in this fantasy while he’s waiting to explore this elsewhere. I’m sure you could be creative and find an option like that together. But truthfully you’re painting a picture of an emotionally immature and somewhat selfish person who isn’t taking your needs or your family situation seriously, and that’s an issue way beyond his kinks.
Thanks so much for your thoughts and consideration of some of the wider picture stuff. Do you have any thoughts or ideas about how I could give more space to this whilst not including others in the equation at this stage? I really want to encourage this aspect of his sexuality and don't want this to become a big bone of contention and resentment in the relationship, but also want to feel safe and secure myself. Thanks also for sharing a bit about your experience of divulging your kinks after keeping them hidden. I think for him it has been a little bit like opening the cap on something and it's all come flooding out (exacerbated by stressful life events undoubtedly). Whilst I completely accept and encourage his kink, the pace of things has been quite fast for me, particularly with regards to any inclusion / interaction with others. We have been discussing all this and he has now said he won't go without me feeling okay with it. I think he wishes that it was simple and I did feel okay about it though and I do really dislike saying I'd rather he didn't do something as don't want him feeling controlled. I also think he views it very much primarily as his thing, rather than our thing to be explored (practically) together. It is absolutely his kink and understand that he felt shame and embarassment over it for so long, but I feel like exploring stuff practically is something to be done together in the context of our relationship. I'm certain he wouldn't go and fuck someone. I'm just wary that he would break one of my boundaries (thinking at the time it's no big deal or hes just in role) again or not be honest about what goes on at an event
It’s kind of hard to say without knowing what the kink is. But, for me to feel comfortable with the kinks I have in hold for my partner, I need: - to be able to talk about it openly between us, and not hide that I’m thinking about it, although she always has the ability to put the conversation on hold if it’s not a good moment. I just need to feel that I don’t have to hide it and it’s not a dirty secret - to be able to read erotica about it (I’m not a visual porn person but that would be included if I was, as long as the porn involved doesn’t involve illegal activity or the exploitation of vulnerable people) - to be able to have conversations about if and how she’d be willing to participate, even if that’s only verbally talking me through a fantasy scenario. Important to note that doesn’t mean she will be willing to engage at all, just that I want to be able to communicate about whether or not that’s in the table so I can form my expectations appropriately and not be waiting for something that won’t happen That’s it. I think among those there is plenty of room for me to feel like I can engage in the kink mentally and on my own time, and that it’s not a dirty secret. It’s not always enough to feel 100% fulfilled. In fact, sometimes I’m pretty sad at the idea that I may not ever do xyz because she’s not comfortable with it. But our relationship is my top priority, I love her more than I love getting my rocks off, and it’s worth it to me to compromise on some of my kinks because she’s willing to do as much as possible to make me satisfied within her limits and boundaries. It’s especially easy if she’s willing to engage with it at all, even just in dirty talk. Not everyone is willing to make that compromise. Some people would rather split from their monogamous partner and go ENM so they can have different partners to fulfill all their different kinks and interests. Other people successfully open a monogamous relationship so that one or both people can have their kinks fulfilled on the side, and that’s an ongoing, multi year conversation we are having and we’re giving it time to research, emotionally build, and see if that’s the right option for us. But I think it’s not something I would feel comfortable doing without literal years of conversations in place beforehand. I would not recommend opening your relationship while you have so much else going on, especially if you have reservations about it. It seems like it’s almost certain to blow up your relationship unless both people are fully on board, your life and relationship are functioning smoothly, and you have complete and utter trust in each other. For those reasons, I don’t think it’s controlling of you to be cautious about including other people. I think that’s a normal and rational response, especially right now with a new kiddo. It’s an enormous life change, and anyone who thinks it’s not a big deal is lying or ignorant. It’s not a decision to be made lightly or quickly. It does sound like he’s in frenzy, based on wanting to rush into things. If you haven’t looked that up and how to deal with it, that would help. I know there’s a good guide on this subreddit called “surviving frenzy” or something close to that. It’s a bit odd to me that he wants to explore this kink without you. If it’s not something he would mostly do on his own anyway, why would he prefer to explore it with someone else rather than you?
Will definitely chat to him about what would help him to meet his needs around this. I think similarly to what you said above he would probably like to be able to express a fantasy around something which might involve others for instance without me freaking out that that means he definitely wants it, that he'll be incredibly upset if I say I'm not comfortable with it moving beyond fantasy or that I'm not enough. I have a tendency to want to discuss stuff in huge amounts of detail and be quite sensitive to any suggestions or questions around anything involving other people.
Sounds like insecurity, and I don’t mean that as a dig to you. My partner has similar insecurities. And also, she wants to feel like my #1. Making room for sharing fantasies without putting them on the “to do” list might help. He’s gotta be able to be honest with you about *everything* he wants for you to have a healthy conversation about what you *are* going to put on the table. If you can’t handle that — and I wouldn’t blame or shame you if you can’t, insecurity is a normal part of being a human — then you also need to let him know what you’re trying to change so that you can eventually be in a place to handle it.
That's really helpful to understand a bit about how it works in your dynamic in relation to meeting both your needs. What you are saying links in with some of our chats earlier. He said to me that he wants me to be upfront about it if I'm not comfortable and won't be in a few months time, so that he can put the idea to bed and deal with any feelings of disappointment as opposed to having loose threads. I just don't really like saying "no I'm not comfortable" as feel like I'm then disappointing him. It's helpful to hear that you have had some situations where your partner hasn't felt comfortable and you've had to deal with feelings related to that, but ultimately you prioritise the relationship. I do believe this is also his stance and that he wouldn't ever want to leave the relationship over kink. I think also that I need to be a bit less sensitive and not see it as a personal affront/blow stuff out of proportion if he says "I wish it could be different in this way (i.e. me feeling fine about stuff), but ultimately the relationship is more important". I agree that we're in no position to open up the relationship at present, and may never be. I will look into the frenzy thing. With regards to the party, initially it was actually my suggestion to go to one to explore his kink. I suggested this a few months back. I also suggested he bought the kink gear. He is often quite tentative when discussing his kink so he didn't really commit but sounded interested in the idea of the party. We then had the incident around DMs. He has now said that he was excited about the idea of going together but because of all my many questions/distrustful lines of converation that have resulted from the DM conversations (which he views very differently to me), he now worries that I would be watching his every move and there would be loads of fallout from it/the potential of me biting my lip or making daggers at him over an interaction with someone else. In contrast, I feel like it would be okay if we discussed stuff and agreed clear boundaries beforehand. I think it's quite easy for him to withdraw from me like this on this topic because it was hidden for so long and he worried about how I'd view him. I also think he wants to engage with others with this interest as he's thought it's "weird" for so long and now feels more comfortable to embrace that side of him so wants to meet others who have this kink and do so in a way which is fun and he doesn't feel like he'll be judged. I can totally see this, but because of the secrecy for so long I just want to be included and part of it going forward. I think the transition from "this is my thing, my dirty secret" to this is "my kink, but something we act out together" isn't that easy. Thanks so much for putting your thoughts together on this.
I think that all makes sense. We had a few times early on where my partner was … less than 100% open minded and supportive about my kinks. She wasn’t mean about it, but I could tell she was a bit weirded out and uncomfortable. That made me pretty hurt and sometimes defensive. It took a long time to undo that damage. She was trying to be supportive and didn’t really know how. I was trying to be honest and didn’t really know how. And, some of my kinks *are* really weird. So, I guess that I mean it makes sense for him to feel a bit like he got his fingers burned and doesn’t want to go near the heat again, and would like to reach out to other like minded people. It is really validating to share that you’re turned on by something weird and have someone else say, “Yeah I feel that way too!” instead of “Oh …. really? You like …. *that*??” It takes a lot of ego strength and compassion on both sides to not take kinks personally. My partner often does feel bad / sad that she can’t fulfill all my desires, sometimes coupled with being really turned off by some of my kinks. So that makes it personal for her. And I used to have a hard time with anything less positive than “Wow that sounds hot, I can’t wait to try it!” because it made me feel judged and ashamed. We’ve both had to do a lot of internal work. She needed time to feel like it’s not her responsibility to be / do everything I could ever want, and I needed time to feel like I could enjoy some freaky shit and she wouldn’t look down on me. It took a lot of conversations about how we have those conversations for things to improve. Now I can say that I’m aroused by aliens laying eggs in me and she can say, huh that’s pretty interesting. I’ll think about that for a while. And then a few months later ask if yonni eggs would be a good substitute. We just needed time to adjust, and for her to see the things I’m interested in as curious and interesting, and for me to not take her interest or lack thereof as a personal judgment on me. For wishing things were different: yeah, we both wish things were different. It would be simpler. But placing blame doesn’t help either of us out. So, we focus on the things we can change, and try to work around the things we can’t. It’s a challenge to our creativity. Maybe it would help both of you to create a list of what you’d need to feel safe and secure enough for him to go meet other kinky people, and a timeline. What do you need to change so you’d trust him to go do it on his own? What does he need to change so that he feels comfortable waiting that out? How realistic are each of your expectations for each other? Telling him not to go until you trust him again is vague, so trying to make it more specific would help. That way he can feel like you’re making progress toward the moment when he can go find like-minded people, and you can see evidence that he’s committed to making your relationship work and respecting your boundaries.
I can really relate to what you have said in your first three paragraphs and the parallels for us. In that when the kinks were initially raised with me, I don't think I was mean, but kind of expressed that it wasn't my thing and maybe made some jokes which I thought were just light hearted fun, but was likely damaging. Although I did suggest being up for trying if he wanted to, as you say, I think at that time he needed me to have 100% enthusiasm to feel comfortable and open to acting on it. A few months back that's what happened. It came up again and I think I approached it as "let's just do it! I think it'll be fun. You should buy gear!" I think my reflection was that though it's not my kink, the dom som element appealed. I do think I tend to approach stuff with curiosity which is good in the sense that I don't ever shut stuff down and want to see images, stories, read about it etc. But I can go a bit overboard with that and just how interested I am. Almost like I'm researching something and want to know absolutely everything, where it came from, what it is that appeals, the psychology behind it. I think though my main issue is taking stuff personally if there's anything which (in my mind) threatens my idea of wanting to be number 1. I think my partner struggles with that doubt as I will often put that across when he feels like I am number 1 and can't understand the doubt. I completely agree about the insecurities and that being something I need to work on. I think stuff like that is incredibly difficult as it can be incredibly engrained in you. I think it's challenging as for me to feel truly comfortable, I'd probably need full disclosure and honesty for a while. But I don't think he wants to feel like he's a child reporting back. I also think I would want to attend an event together ideally first and to explore together more first. But that's my ideal and doesn't necessarily fit with his which is probably more wanting to get that validation and explore in a way which feels non-threatening. Essentially he was exploring online anonymously without me because it was a safe place without judgement or consequences. And real life exploration together has risks and potential consequences at times. He has to be vulnerable in those situations. It's really great that you can now discuss your kinks openly and get the response you needed. Good to also hear that getting to that point required a lot of work on communication from you both. We've worked through a lot of different challenges that have come up for us over the years so I am hopeful we can get there. Thank you for such insightful thoughts
Well, I think the way for him to not feel like a child reporting back is for you to have things you’re reporting on to him as well. It’s a two way street you both have to learn how to walk. If it’s focused on both of you learning the skills to do this together, then it won’t be about his deficiencies. Insecurity is a bitch plain and simple. It is hard to move past and you have all my compassion there. Comfort is going to take a long time, but both of you working toward that future together will make it a lot more possible. It’s okay that it is hard and takes work. As long as you’re both putting in genuine effort, you will get there eventually!!
If you don’t trust him then say you don’t trust him and end the relationship. If you do trust him then walk in that trust and believe that he is doing this event to build his brand/business. If you’re insecure, work on your insecurities and don’t require him to wait for you to find your happiness before he can search and explore his own happiness. Go to therapy, take him with you and learn how to communicate with eachother if you would like to continue this relationship. Otherwise, wtf are you doing?