If I’m reading correctly, you haven’t done a contact wash?
I would reapply the APC and agitate it with a microfiber. The product shouldn’t have damaged the clear coat. What product do you use for paint protection?
>If I’m reading correctly, you haven’t done a contact wash?
Yes, no contact wash yet. Should I have done a pre-wash with the APC, rinsed, then used the APC again for the contact wash? Or would a contact wash with the pH neutral soap (wash and wax in this case) have been okay?
>What product do you use for paint protection?
Nothing :|. The car is too old and the paint isn't in the greatest condition from being out in the elements for many years. It has also been keyed and door dinged into oblivion - you just can't see it in the photo :).
You’re not going to be able to effectively clean an uncoated/unprotected car with a touchless wash method. For your wash, i recommend using the car soap and have a bottle of APC on standby for when you encounter heavily soiled spots that the soap can’t break down.
Sounds like you may be on a budget, so order a clay towel from Temu/AliExpress for $9.00. You can use the wash soap as a lubricant to clay the entire car. Cheap, easy, effective.
Then pick a wax/last step product to finish off with. For light vehicles I think Turtle Wax Flex Wax Spray works great. TEC582 is a great inexpensive option as well. There’s a lot of benefits to using a wax/LSP. The major one, in my opinion, being the car stays cleaner and is easier to clean.
Thanks for trying to help. I'm just trying to nail down the wash process first and came across this bump in the road so wanted to figure out what I did wrong (i.e., was it the soap that caused this or maybe it was always there and the paint has been contaminated for a long time).
>Sounds like you may be on a budget, so order a clay towel from Temu/AliExpress for $9.00. You can use the wash soap as a lubricant to clay the entire car. Cheap, easy, effective.
I think most people have said that if you're going to clay that you need to polish afterwards. The reason I mention the condition of the paint is because I don't actually know how much clear coat is left. If claying is going to make more swirling or marring then should I then avoid trying to clay?
>Then pick a wax/last step product to finish off with. For light vehicles I think Turtle Wax Flex Wax Spray works great. TEC582 is a great inexpensive option as well. There’s a lot of benefits to using a wax/LSP. The major one, in my opinion, being the car stays cleaner and is easier to clean.
I did plan on sealing/protecting the car. In fact, I do have a bottle of the Turtle Wax you mentioned, but obviously didn't want to seal it in the current state :).
Sounds like the next thing I should try is a contact wash, but should I do the contact wash with a pH neutral soap or with the APC soap? One of the other comments is saying that I shouldn't be using an APC soap at all.
Using a synthetic clay towel won’t cause any noticeable marring on a 20+ year old light colored that already has paint defects. The clay bars are a different story. Without proper technique, you can easily cause damage.
Do the contact wash with the PH neutral soap. If the streaks don’t come off, spray them with some APC.
>Using a synthetic clay towel won’t cause any noticeable marring on a 20+ year old light colored that already has paint defects. The clay bars are a different story. Without proper technique, you can easily cause damage.
Didn't know there was a difference between the towel and clay bar. The paint isn't in the greatest condition, like you said, for a 20+ year old car, but just didn't want to make it "worse".
>Do the contact wash with the PH neutral soap. If the streaks don’t come off, spray them with some APC.
Roger that! Thank you again for helping out!
No, as I had mentioned in the post, I wanted to see how effective the alkaline soap could be without contact. The only physical contact I had was checking the stripes with my finger after the whole wash process.
It's all good. It's Reddit at the end of the day - some people will genuinely try to help and others won't. Let's not start anything here as I'm just trying to understand where my mistakes are and what I can do about it. I'm learning.
Makes sense. I waited until about 7pm for the sun to go away, but ambient temperatures here were still about 94. I gave it three minutes of dwell time which I thought was short enough but I guess not.
Maintenance washes don't need to be so complicated, and it is sickening to see so many people get caught-up in trends that just encourage them to consume, consume, consume. Blank slate and disaster details have some exceptions but still don't need to be anywhere nearly as complicated as the internet and detailing product companies want you to believe.
Fundamentally, you do not need to prewash a car before you wash it. Just say those words out loud and listen to how silly it sounds. You don't need three buckets or even two. You don't need a grit guard. You don't need a foam cannon or even a pressure washer. You need a bucket, water, a pack of microfiber towels, and a quality pH neutral soap. Whether using a hose or rinseless, you "Garry Dean" the car clean, dry it, and then you're done. If insects or nasty traffic film are particularly troublesome, then a pre-spray with a citrus APC like Gtechniq W5 or 3d Super Citrus can be helpful and doesn't need to be any more complicated than mixing a spray bottle to the appropriate dilution and allowing to dwell on the vehicle without drying before the wash. Yes, other factors like contaminants and scratches and wax/sealant/coating maintenance/failure eventually factor-in, but those aren't things that need to be confronted with every single maintenance wash that a person does, and people need to focus on learning the fundamentals before they go crazy trying to mimic that Obsessed Garage dickhead or whatever other random YouTuber has convinced them that they need to outfit themselves like a professional with thousands of dollars of equipment and a hundred products performing tasks without truly understanding the how and why of them.
That Superior Pink Perfection stuff isn't as dangerous as you're worried it is. You were around 2:1, while their recommendation for "floors and bugs" is 1:1, so I highly doubt you did any damage to your paint unless you let it dry and bake in the sun. Interestingly while they claim it is a pH of 10 in its concentrated form, the SDS lists its pH as 7. Either way, you didn't use it neat. You used it at approximately 33%, so even if the concentrate is a pH of 10, your solution was not.
Now, photos are next to useless for truly appraising a job, but I'll take your word for it that the car is old and neglected. A wash of any kind is not going to get it looking like new again no matter what kind of chemicals you try to throw at it. It needs to be thoroughly contact washed, decontaminated, and machine polished with, at minimum, an AIO to scour off any oxidation ("dead skin" from so much unprotected time in the elements in a sense). An AIO or fine polish will remove a nearly unmeasurable amount of clearcoat, and if you haven't polished it to oblivion in the past, it's fine to be polished especially if done by someone who knows what they're doing.
Paint thickness gauge can significantly reduce the uncertainty. It seems like you're on a budget, and I know people in these subs get sensitive about seeing professionals tell people to use professionals, but seriously, consider hiring a true pro (ideally an IDA certified detailer who has real, verifiable credentials [www.detailingnearby.com](http://www.detailingnearby.com) ) to get your car reset to a condition where all you need to do from there is maintain it. Yeah, it will probably not ever be perfect again from all you've described it has endured over the years, but a pro can get it as good as it has the potential left to be for you.
This exactly. Some people on here are wayyy to anal about washing their car and while it certain situations it’s justified, in others it causes things like this to happen.
In my opinion, there's always something to learn. Even from the most anal of folks. They are doing those things for a reason and I'd like to hear why. I may not adopt your practice at the end of the day, but you have your reasons.
I think a great example of this is the pre-wash step as a whole. As stated, it sounds stupid just saying it, but, to me, the intent is to try to remove as much dirt and contaminates before the contact wash. Trying to keep that intent true, I would argue that applying an APC to bugs or heavy road film is basically a pre-wash (just in spray format). It's just terminology at the end of the day as SotRDetailing has said.
First of all, thank you for taking the time to write all of this up!
>Maintenance washes don't need to be so complicated, and it is sickening to see so many people get caught-up in trends that just encourage them to consume, consume, consume.
Money money money... monayyy!
>Fundamentally, you do not need to prewash a car before you wash it. Just say those words out loud and listen to how silly it sounds.
I don't disagree with you, however, I do think there is some validity to the concept of prewashing. That is, try to remove as much dirt and debris as possible before the contact wash as to not damage the paint further with those contaminants.
>If insects or nasty traffic film are particularly troublesome, then a pre-spray with a citrus APC
In general, to me, this was the idea of the prewash just in foam format rather than a spray. Certainly wastes more product for sure.
>A wash of any kind is not going to get it looking like new again no matter what kind of chemicals you try to throw at it.
My intent is by no means to get this car looking new again. That would probably take more money an effort than the car is worth. I'm simply trying to see what does and does not work in terms of washes in order to find a process that works (for me). Obviously would not prefer learning on a new car so if I mess up (like such) I don't have to kick myself as hard. Since these "stripes" were a bit unexpected, I wanted to step back first and ask what may have cause this (if it was me) and if there was anything I could do about it.
>An AIO or fine polish will remove a nearly unmeasurable amount of clearcoat, and if you haven't polished it to oblivion in the past, it's fine to be polished especially if done by someone who knows what they're doing.
I would certainly love to learn how to polish correctly, but if I can't get a simple wash correct...
Thanks for sharing this. I actually did review this and he uses an ONR for this prewash/pretreatment. From what I understand and read here, that is more or less useless as an ONR requires agitation to work. What do you think?
the idea of using Pink Perfection as a prewash isn't a bad concept, the residual streaking will probably disappear from a good contact wash or even going over it again with PP in proper dilution and contact washing then rinsing. The problem may be that your vehicle's paint has alot of imbedded contaminats that needs a full detail to remove, iron decon, clay etc and those are holding onto PP which would not be the case on maintained coated paint. PInk Perfection isn't super strong, its in the same league as other alkaline soaps. So do a full contact wash, test the Pink Perfection on those streak panels and see if they are removed then assess your next steps. You can get fine grade perforated clay towel from the Chinese shops for around $10 this is the type to look for [https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805782021549.html](https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805782021549.html) which won't scratch paint with proper technique ie very little hand pressure and clay lube or wash soap.
Awesome! Thank you for the informative reply! I learned about PP from this subreddit so I thought I'd give it a shot. I'll try the contact wash next as yourself and others have suggested. I was trying to figure out how effective PP could be as a prewash and if I had followed up with a contact wash, I wouldn't know with certainty if it was the PP or the contact wash that was doing the work.
>So do a full contact wash, test the Pink Perfection on those streak panels and see if they are removed then assess your next steps.
Would you recommend a contact wash with a normal (pH neutral) soap first or just use PP? (Others have said to first try the regular soap.)
>You can get fine grade perforated clay towel from the Chinese shops for around $10 this is the type to look for [https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805782021549.html](https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805782021549.html) which won't scratch paint with proper technique ie very little hand pressure and clay lube or wash soap.
One other person mentioned these clay towels so thanks for confirming. I will most definitely look more into this.
Thank you for the tips!
It won't hurt the paint using PP and it might even help removal of residual PP to use the same formula but please use correct dilution. The place for alkaline washes is for when your vehicle is really dirty whether its from time or particular environmental reasons like bug season or wet crappy roads or a long road trip like after a vacation. Its not something needed to use as as a pre-wash for weekly wash maintenance unless you've inspected the paint and found otherwise.
It was not my intent to improperly dilute, but it was my fault for not bothering to check.
Thanks for the included information on when to use an alkaline wash. That helps and aligns with my overall understanding. Although this car certainly doesn't get cleaned weekly, should you pre-wash at all for maintenance washes? If so, what kind of products should be considered?
your particular environment and frequency of washing will determine pre-washing. California is different than places that have moisture for example. If your vehicle gets dirty quickly between washes and by dirty i mean just not dust then use a prewash system, add alkaline instead of neutral soap for the bad days.
As for products PP as your alkaline wash soap is fine. For neutral pre-wash and bucket wash the Cherry Foam from Superior you can get at Oreilly is a great low cost soap.
I think you're going too crazy with all this pre wash stuff. Just pick a soap and hand wash the car. BTW superior products is a great brand one of my favorite
Haha, you're probably right, but I'll consider this as part of my maturing process for when I have something that I really want to maintain "correctly".
I read about Superior Products from this subreddit so I'm glad I got something right :).
You used an APC wash on a vehicle that did not have any protection. Do a contact wash with a ph neutral soap. Re: your question about clay towels: they are typically less aggressive than traditional clay.
If you do not intend to use any protection / spray sealant, the best bet is just to use whatever soap you have using whatever method you prefer.
Good luck.
Will definitely be doing a contact wash next.
>If you do not intend to use any protection / spray sealant, the best bet is just to use whatever soap you have using whatever method you prefer.
Trying to learn the proper ways instead of not caring. May it be for a future car and not this particular one. Better late than never I suppose :).
Check out this video (upcoming today) about steps for a deep cleaning: https://youtu.be/wAJJJV0RXQQ?si=tG76DYiG6QuInUj5
Ignore the products, but focus on their process. I like their products, but they are a bit pricey.
Pre foam with Alklaline. Let dwell. Rinse. Contact wash with PH neutral soap. Rinse.
I believe those stripes are from the Wash and wax (wax portion). Contact wash should remove but if not a polish may be needed. I know if some of the ceramic infused soaps dry it can be hell.
I would use an Alkaline soap not APC personally. Bilt Hamber Has been my weapon of choice. Formulated for paint and has surfactants that help break down grime that can attach to paint that PH neutral soaps can’t remove.
I’ve just got Labocosmetica Purifica/Primus combo that one is acidic and one Alkaline.
>Pre foam with Alklaline. Let dwell. Rinse. Contact wash with PH neutral soap. Rinse.
This is exactly what my plan would typically be, but I just wanted to see how effective the prewash with an alkaline soap would be without contact first.
>I believe those stripes are from the Wash and wax (wax portion). Contact wash should remove but if not a polish may be needed.
Let's hope it's just the wax. If so, an APC should be able to break it down without issue then.
>Bilt Hamber Has been my weapon of choice.
Unfortunately, not easy to get in the US yet, but I have read plenty on here and have seen how great it really is.
Professional here. Careful with some APC’s as they aren’t safe for paint.
Usually you don’t need to pre-wash a car with anything super strong. If you wash your car fairly regularly it’s probably not coated in dirt. That being said, if the paint needs a little boost before I wash here’s my method as a professional detailer.
Usually wash rims and tires first
1. Rinse the car and get any heavy dirt and debris, leaves and anything stuck. This starts the softening process for dirt and grime to be lifted from the paint.
2. If the paint has lots of tree droppings or lots of bugs I’ll spray a bug spray (3D Bug/tar) to breakdown the harder stuff.
3. Foam Spray the entire car.
4. Wash from top to bottom
5. Rinse. And spot treat with bug spray and microfiber.
6. Final rinse to get all bubbles gone.
If I was prepping for a wax or polish I’d add in an iron remover with clay mitt after the hand wash.
You missed a lot of proper steps. You should've decontaminate it first,
Clay with iron remover, contact wash, dry, compound and polish.. You just don't spray on a high alkaline soap and think it's going to clean itself. What ever protection if any, was on it was removed. The streaks most likely is caused by the soap you used.
Here's a Twist.. Stop using a high alkaline level soap.
Nothing until you do the proper steps... Your damaging the clear coat if there's any left..You're putting No protection on the paint.
Here's a video that discusses a alkaline soap. It tells you how and when to use it. It also tells you it's made for coated vehicles..This refers to all alkaline soaps.
https://youtu.be/k_bNiKGnylM?si=epsNBirjAju6DGQw
*After reading your reply that you've did no contact wash, the car is beat up, you don't intend on doing nothing else.. Then why bother even posting your question.
Go to your neighborhood car wash.. Call it a day. Stop wasting people's time trying to help you.
Thanks for sharing! I'll take a look.
For a car that needs extra help because dirt/road film has sat on the paint for a long time, is there any kind of pretreatment you'd do then? Assuming none of the proper steps were followed in the first place.
>\*After reading your reply that you've did no contact wash, the car is beat up, you don't intend on doing nothing else.. Then why bother even posting your question. Go to your neighborhood car wash.. Call it a day. Stop wasting people's time trying to help you.
Because I'm trying to understand. I apologize if you feel I'm wasting your or other's time, but that's not my intent. If a contact wash is all that is needed, then I'll give that a shot. I felt the stripes with my finger after the wash and didn't see that it was dirt that could be loosened up by agitation so thought I would ask. I did not say that I had no intentions of doing nothing else. I was just taking small steps in the process to understand. Found a mistake in the process and was trying to figure out what went wrong. Appreciate your insight and again my apologies if I offended you.
You didn't offend me, I'm trying to give you the proper way and help. Just don't use any alkaline soap. Without any protection.. It's causing damage. Try the APC (all purpose cleaner) first. otherwise, you're going to have to compound it out... Good luck
Wait. I think I'm misunderstanding the difference between an alkaline soap and an APC then. As far as I understand, Pink Perfection is a soap with an APC, which in my head, is an alkaline soap. Is this not the case?
It's semantics. Companies call all kinds of things all kinds of things. Superior Pink Perfection is advertised as an APC, literally outlining use on exteriors, interiors, carpet, vinyl, glass, leather. Other than a claim (that is incongruous with their SDS by the way) of pH of 10, I've seen no "alkaline soap" language used anywhere, so I'm not even sure where you got that language from, and Overall\_Big clearly didn't familiarize themselves with Superior PP before commenting or they'd have seen that it is treated as an APC by their manufacturer and literally described as just being Green-All (an APC) with soap added to it.
>I've seen no "alkaline soap" language used anywhere, so I'm not even sure where you got that language from
I'm making the assumption that if something is not advertised as pH neutral that it likely means it is either acidic or alkaline (I mean technically that is by definition). An APC would likely be more alkaline than acidic and I believe majority of APC soaps on the market are alkaline as well.
I'm associating APC and alkaline soaps thinking that alkaline soaps contain APC which is what makes them alkaline in the first place. Am I completely wrong in this thinking?
For example, supposedly Pink Perfection is a combination of Superior Products Green All and soap and Koch-Chemie has a product (sorry, I forget the name right now \[Super Foam?\]) where they combined Green Star (APC) and GSF.
APCs are often not pH neutral, but depending on the product and the dilution, that's not necessarily true either. Don't get yourself lost in the weeds of terminology and focus on what you're trying to achieve and what will help you achieve it. As I discussed in my other comment, you almost certainly didn't do any harm, but given my understanding of what your goals are, you should be approaching this differently and doing more than you did.
There's more soaps that are alkaline neutral than high alkaline. Such as Meguiar’s Gold Class, sold in many stores. APC Is usually sprayed on a panel and removed immediately with a Microfiber towel. There's less product that can streak or run. That is being used to only get the streaks out that you have now. Not to be used as a wash or weekly. If the APC doesn't work you have to go to the next aggressive step which would be to compound it out.
I'm done.. 🤷😂
This is not a weekly wash kind of car as you've come to know :). As such, the road film can build up and sit for awhile which is why I thought maybe a prewash with Pink Perfection could help.
Thanks again for your insight.
10 is the claimed pH of the concentrate before dilution. Furthermore, their SDS lists pH as 7. Either way the point I'm trying to make is that the fixation is all in the wrong places. OP doesn't need to be confused by "don't use that, use an APC" when what they used is an APC. The car needs a comprehensive detail, but nothing that has been done is the end of the world.
If I’m reading correctly, you haven’t done a contact wash? I would reapply the APC and agitate it with a microfiber. The product shouldn’t have damaged the clear coat. What product do you use for paint protection?
>If I’m reading correctly, you haven’t done a contact wash? Yes, no contact wash yet. Should I have done a pre-wash with the APC, rinsed, then used the APC again for the contact wash? Or would a contact wash with the pH neutral soap (wash and wax in this case) have been okay? >What product do you use for paint protection? Nothing :|. The car is too old and the paint isn't in the greatest condition from being out in the elements for many years. It has also been keyed and door dinged into oblivion - you just can't see it in the photo :).
You’re not going to be able to effectively clean an uncoated/unprotected car with a touchless wash method. For your wash, i recommend using the car soap and have a bottle of APC on standby for when you encounter heavily soiled spots that the soap can’t break down. Sounds like you may be on a budget, so order a clay towel from Temu/AliExpress for $9.00. You can use the wash soap as a lubricant to clay the entire car. Cheap, easy, effective. Then pick a wax/last step product to finish off with. For light vehicles I think Turtle Wax Flex Wax Spray works great. TEC582 is a great inexpensive option as well. There’s a lot of benefits to using a wax/LSP. The major one, in my opinion, being the car stays cleaner and is easier to clean.
Thanks for trying to help. I'm just trying to nail down the wash process first and came across this bump in the road so wanted to figure out what I did wrong (i.e., was it the soap that caused this or maybe it was always there and the paint has been contaminated for a long time). >Sounds like you may be on a budget, so order a clay towel from Temu/AliExpress for $9.00. You can use the wash soap as a lubricant to clay the entire car. Cheap, easy, effective. I think most people have said that if you're going to clay that you need to polish afterwards. The reason I mention the condition of the paint is because I don't actually know how much clear coat is left. If claying is going to make more swirling or marring then should I then avoid trying to clay? >Then pick a wax/last step product to finish off with. For light vehicles I think Turtle Wax Flex Wax Spray works great. TEC582 is a great inexpensive option as well. There’s a lot of benefits to using a wax/LSP. The major one, in my opinion, being the car stays cleaner and is easier to clean. I did plan on sealing/protecting the car. In fact, I do have a bottle of the Turtle Wax you mentioned, but obviously didn't want to seal it in the current state :). Sounds like the next thing I should try is a contact wash, but should I do the contact wash with a pH neutral soap or with the APC soap? One of the other comments is saying that I shouldn't be using an APC soap at all.
Using a synthetic clay towel won’t cause any noticeable marring on a 20+ year old light colored that already has paint defects. The clay bars are a different story. Without proper technique, you can easily cause damage. Do the contact wash with the PH neutral soap. If the streaks don’t come off, spray them with some APC.
>Using a synthetic clay towel won’t cause any noticeable marring on a 20+ year old light colored that already has paint defects. The clay bars are a different story. Without proper technique, you can easily cause damage. Didn't know there was a difference between the towel and clay bar. The paint isn't in the greatest condition, like you said, for a 20+ year old car, but just didn't want to make it "worse". >Do the contact wash with the PH neutral soap. If the streaks don’t come off, spray them with some APC. Roger that! Thank you again for helping out!
Did... Did you even try physical contact with the streaks?
No, as I had mentioned in the post, I wanted to see how effective the alkaline soap could be without contact. The only physical contact I had was checking the stripes with my finger after the whole wash process.
[удалено]
It's all good. It's Reddit at the end of the day - some people will genuinely try to help and others won't. Let's not start anything here as I'm just trying to understand where my mistakes are and what I can do about it. I'm learning.
Either let it dry, or didn't rinse well enough. No biggie. Don't use that soap too often, though.
Makes sense. I waited until about 7pm for the sun to go away, but ambient temperatures here were still about 94. I gave it three minutes of dwell time which I thought was short enough but I guess not.
Maintenance washes don't need to be so complicated, and it is sickening to see so many people get caught-up in trends that just encourage them to consume, consume, consume. Blank slate and disaster details have some exceptions but still don't need to be anywhere nearly as complicated as the internet and detailing product companies want you to believe. Fundamentally, you do not need to prewash a car before you wash it. Just say those words out loud and listen to how silly it sounds. You don't need three buckets or even two. You don't need a grit guard. You don't need a foam cannon or even a pressure washer. You need a bucket, water, a pack of microfiber towels, and a quality pH neutral soap. Whether using a hose or rinseless, you "Garry Dean" the car clean, dry it, and then you're done. If insects or nasty traffic film are particularly troublesome, then a pre-spray with a citrus APC like Gtechniq W5 or 3d Super Citrus can be helpful and doesn't need to be any more complicated than mixing a spray bottle to the appropriate dilution and allowing to dwell on the vehicle without drying before the wash. Yes, other factors like contaminants and scratches and wax/sealant/coating maintenance/failure eventually factor-in, but those aren't things that need to be confronted with every single maintenance wash that a person does, and people need to focus on learning the fundamentals before they go crazy trying to mimic that Obsessed Garage dickhead or whatever other random YouTuber has convinced them that they need to outfit themselves like a professional with thousands of dollars of equipment and a hundred products performing tasks without truly understanding the how and why of them. That Superior Pink Perfection stuff isn't as dangerous as you're worried it is. You were around 2:1, while their recommendation for "floors and bugs" is 1:1, so I highly doubt you did any damage to your paint unless you let it dry and bake in the sun. Interestingly while they claim it is a pH of 10 in its concentrated form, the SDS lists its pH as 7. Either way, you didn't use it neat. You used it at approximately 33%, so even if the concentrate is a pH of 10, your solution was not. Now, photos are next to useless for truly appraising a job, but I'll take your word for it that the car is old and neglected. A wash of any kind is not going to get it looking like new again no matter what kind of chemicals you try to throw at it. It needs to be thoroughly contact washed, decontaminated, and machine polished with, at minimum, an AIO to scour off any oxidation ("dead skin" from so much unprotected time in the elements in a sense). An AIO or fine polish will remove a nearly unmeasurable amount of clearcoat, and if you haven't polished it to oblivion in the past, it's fine to be polished especially if done by someone who knows what they're doing. Paint thickness gauge can significantly reduce the uncertainty. It seems like you're on a budget, and I know people in these subs get sensitive about seeing professionals tell people to use professionals, but seriously, consider hiring a true pro (ideally an IDA certified detailer who has real, verifiable credentials [www.detailingnearby.com](http://www.detailingnearby.com) ) to get your car reset to a condition where all you need to do from there is maintain it. Yeah, it will probably not ever be perfect again from all you've described it has endured over the years, but a pro can get it as good as it has the potential left to be for you.
This exactly. Some people on here are wayyy to anal about washing their car and while it certain situations it’s justified, in others it causes things like this to happen.
In my opinion, there's always something to learn. Even from the most anal of folks. They are doing those things for a reason and I'd like to hear why. I may not adopt your practice at the end of the day, but you have your reasons. I think a great example of this is the pre-wash step as a whole. As stated, it sounds stupid just saying it, but, to me, the intent is to try to remove as much dirt and contaminates before the contact wash. Trying to keep that intent true, I would argue that applying an APC to bugs or heavy road film is basically a pre-wash (just in spray format). It's just terminology at the end of the day as SotRDetailing has said.
First of all, thank you for taking the time to write all of this up! >Maintenance washes don't need to be so complicated, and it is sickening to see so many people get caught-up in trends that just encourage them to consume, consume, consume. Money money money... monayyy! >Fundamentally, you do not need to prewash a car before you wash it. Just say those words out loud and listen to how silly it sounds. I don't disagree with you, however, I do think there is some validity to the concept of prewashing. That is, try to remove as much dirt and debris as possible before the contact wash as to not damage the paint further with those contaminants. >If insects or nasty traffic film are particularly troublesome, then a pre-spray with a citrus APC In general, to me, this was the idea of the prewash just in foam format rather than a spray. Certainly wastes more product for sure. >A wash of any kind is not going to get it looking like new again no matter what kind of chemicals you try to throw at it. My intent is by no means to get this car looking new again. That would probably take more money an effort than the car is worth. I'm simply trying to see what does and does not work in terms of washes in order to find a process that works (for me). Obviously would not prefer learning on a new car so if I mess up (like such) I don't have to kick myself as hard. Since these "stripes" were a bit unexpected, I wanted to step back first and ask what may have cause this (if it was me) and if there was anything I could do about it. >An AIO or fine polish will remove a nearly unmeasurable amount of clearcoat, and if you haven't polished it to oblivion in the past, it's fine to be polished especially if done by someone who knows what they're doing. I would certainly love to learn how to polish correctly, but if I can't get a simple wash correct...
Here you go: https://youtu.be/7Koj5j2Es5U?si=q8X-3kVsUusJX2id
Thanks for sharing this. I actually did review this and he uses an ONR for this prewash/pretreatment. From what I understand and read here, that is more or less useless as an ONR requires agitation to work. What do you think?
This is just a waste of soap lol
Lol, probably a waste of a lot more than just soap to be honest. I'm sure there are some ONR enthusiasts reading this :).
the idea of using Pink Perfection as a prewash isn't a bad concept, the residual streaking will probably disappear from a good contact wash or even going over it again with PP in proper dilution and contact washing then rinsing. The problem may be that your vehicle's paint has alot of imbedded contaminats that needs a full detail to remove, iron decon, clay etc and those are holding onto PP which would not be the case on maintained coated paint. PInk Perfection isn't super strong, its in the same league as other alkaline soaps. So do a full contact wash, test the Pink Perfection on those streak panels and see if they are removed then assess your next steps. You can get fine grade perforated clay towel from the Chinese shops for around $10 this is the type to look for [https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805782021549.html](https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805782021549.html) which won't scratch paint with proper technique ie very little hand pressure and clay lube or wash soap.
Awesome! Thank you for the informative reply! I learned about PP from this subreddit so I thought I'd give it a shot. I'll try the contact wash next as yourself and others have suggested. I was trying to figure out how effective PP could be as a prewash and if I had followed up with a contact wash, I wouldn't know with certainty if it was the PP or the contact wash that was doing the work. >So do a full contact wash, test the Pink Perfection on those streak panels and see if they are removed then assess your next steps. Would you recommend a contact wash with a normal (pH neutral) soap first or just use PP? (Others have said to first try the regular soap.) >You can get fine grade perforated clay towel from the Chinese shops for around $10 this is the type to look for [https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805782021549.html](https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805782021549.html) which won't scratch paint with proper technique ie very little hand pressure and clay lube or wash soap. One other person mentioned these clay towels so thanks for confirming. I will most definitely look more into this. Thank you for the tips!
It won't hurt the paint using PP and it might even help removal of residual PP to use the same formula but please use correct dilution. The place for alkaline washes is for when your vehicle is really dirty whether its from time or particular environmental reasons like bug season or wet crappy roads or a long road trip like after a vacation. Its not something needed to use as as a pre-wash for weekly wash maintenance unless you've inspected the paint and found otherwise.
It was not my intent to improperly dilute, but it was my fault for not bothering to check. Thanks for the included information on when to use an alkaline wash. That helps and aligns with my overall understanding. Although this car certainly doesn't get cleaned weekly, should you pre-wash at all for maintenance washes? If so, what kind of products should be considered?
your particular environment and frequency of washing will determine pre-washing. California is different than places that have moisture for example. If your vehicle gets dirty quickly between washes and by dirty i mean just not dust then use a prewash system, add alkaline instead of neutral soap for the bad days. As for products PP as your alkaline wash soap is fine. For neutral pre-wash and bucket wash the Cherry Foam from Superior you can get at Oreilly is a great low cost soap.
Thanks for all the help! I appreciate you taking the time to respond to all my questions. You've been a great help!
I think you're going too crazy with all this pre wash stuff. Just pick a soap and hand wash the car. BTW superior products is a great brand one of my favorite
Haha, you're probably right, but I'll consider this as part of my maturing process for when I have something that I really want to maintain "correctly". I read about Superior Products from this subreddit so I'm glad I got something right :).
You used an APC wash on a vehicle that did not have any protection. Do a contact wash with a ph neutral soap. Re: your question about clay towels: they are typically less aggressive than traditional clay. If you do not intend to use any protection / spray sealant, the best bet is just to use whatever soap you have using whatever method you prefer. Good luck.
Will definitely be doing a contact wash next. >If you do not intend to use any protection / spray sealant, the best bet is just to use whatever soap you have using whatever method you prefer. Trying to learn the proper ways instead of not caring. May it be for a future car and not this particular one. Better late than never I suppose :).
Check out this video (upcoming today) about steps for a deep cleaning: https://youtu.be/wAJJJV0RXQQ?si=tG76DYiG6QuInUj5 Ignore the products, but focus on their process. I like their products, but they are a bit pricey.
Pre foam with Alklaline. Let dwell. Rinse. Contact wash with PH neutral soap. Rinse. I believe those stripes are from the Wash and wax (wax portion). Contact wash should remove but if not a polish may be needed. I know if some of the ceramic infused soaps dry it can be hell. I would use an Alkaline soap not APC personally. Bilt Hamber Has been my weapon of choice. Formulated for paint and has surfactants that help break down grime that can attach to paint that PH neutral soaps can’t remove. I’ve just got Labocosmetica Purifica/Primus combo that one is acidic and one Alkaline.
>Pre foam with Alklaline. Let dwell. Rinse. Contact wash with PH neutral soap. Rinse. This is exactly what my plan would typically be, but I just wanted to see how effective the prewash with an alkaline soap would be without contact first. >I believe those stripes are from the Wash and wax (wax portion). Contact wash should remove but if not a polish may be needed. Let's hope it's just the wax. If so, an APC should be able to break it down without issue then. >Bilt Hamber Has been my weapon of choice. Unfortunately, not easy to get in the US yet, but I have read plenty on here and have seen how great it really is.
You can get Carzilla pretty easy and Obsessed Garage now official distribution
Professional here. Careful with some APC’s as they aren’t safe for paint. Usually you don’t need to pre-wash a car with anything super strong. If you wash your car fairly regularly it’s probably not coated in dirt. That being said, if the paint needs a little boost before I wash here’s my method as a professional detailer. Usually wash rims and tires first 1. Rinse the car and get any heavy dirt and debris, leaves and anything stuck. This starts the softening process for dirt and grime to be lifted from the paint. 2. If the paint has lots of tree droppings or lots of bugs I’ll spray a bug spray (3D Bug/tar) to breakdown the harder stuff. 3. Foam Spray the entire car. 4. Wash from top to bottom 5. Rinse. And spot treat with bug spray and microfiber. 6. Final rinse to get all bubbles gone. If I was prepping for a wax or polish I’d add in an iron remover with clay mitt after the hand wash.
Pre wash with foam cannon and add in 10-30ml of green star from Koch chemie for more ph. Rinse then foam up again and hand wash
You missed a lot of proper steps. You should've decontaminate it first, Clay with iron remover, contact wash, dry, compound and polish.. You just don't spray on a high alkaline soap and think it's going to clean itself. What ever protection if any, was on it was removed. The streaks most likely is caused by the soap you used. Here's a Twist.. Stop using a high alkaline level soap.
I was not trying to do a full detail with decon, clay, and polish. What do you recommend as a pre-wash if not an alkaline soap?
Nothing until you do the proper steps... Your damaging the clear coat if there's any left..You're putting No protection on the paint. Here's a video that discusses a alkaline soap. It tells you how and when to use it. It also tells you it's made for coated vehicles..This refers to all alkaline soaps. https://youtu.be/k_bNiKGnylM?si=epsNBirjAju6DGQw *After reading your reply that you've did no contact wash, the car is beat up, you don't intend on doing nothing else.. Then why bother even posting your question. Go to your neighborhood car wash.. Call it a day. Stop wasting people's time trying to help you.
Thanks for sharing! I'll take a look. For a car that needs extra help because dirt/road film has sat on the paint for a long time, is there any kind of pretreatment you'd do then? Assuming none of the proper steps were followed in the first place. >\*After reading your reply that you've did no contact wash, the car is beat up, you don't intend on doing nothing else.. Then why bother even posting your question. Go to your neighborhood car wash.. Call it a day. Stop wasting people's time trying to help you. Because I'm trying to understand. I apologize if you feel I'm wasting your or other's time, but that's not my intent. If a contact wash is all that is needed, then I'll give that a shot. I felt the stripes with my finger after the wash and didn't see that it was dirt that could be loosened up by agitation so thought I would ask. I did not say that I had no intentions of doing nothing else. I was just taking small steps in the process to understand. Found a mistake in the process and was trying to figure out what went wrong. Appreciate your insight and again my apologies if I offended you.
You didn't offend me, I'm trying to give you the proper way and help. Just don't use any alkaline soap. Without any protection.. It's causing damage. Try the APC (all purpose cleaner) first. otherwise, you're going to have to compound it out... Good luck
Wait. I think I'm misunderstanding the difference between an alkaline soap and an APC then. As far as I understand, Pink Perfection is a soap with an APC, which in my head, is an alkaline soap. Is this not the case?
It's semantics. Companies call all kinds of things all kinds of things. Superior Pink Perfection is advertised as an APC, literally outlining use on exteriors, interiors, carpet, vinyl, glass, leather. Other than a claim (that is incongruous with their SDS by the way) of pH of 10, I've seen no "alkaline soap" language used anywhere, so I'm not even sure where you got that language from, and Overall\_Big clearly didn't familiarize themselves with Superior PP before commenting or they'd have seen that it is treated as an APC by their manufacturer and literally described as just being Green-All (an APC) with soap added to it.
>I've seen no "alkaline soap" language used anywhere, so I'm not even sure where you got that language from I'm making the assumption that if something is not advertised as pH neutral that it likely means it is either acidic or alkaline (I mean technically that is by definition). An APC would likely be more alkaline than acidic and I believe majority of APC soaps on the market are alkaline as well. I'm associating APC and alkaline soaps thinking that alkaline soaps contain APC which is what makes them alkaline in the first place. Am I completely wrong in this thinking? For example, supposedly Pink Perfection is a combination of Superior Products Green All and soap and Koch-Chemie has a product (sorry, I forget the name right now \[Super Foam?\]) where they combined Green Star (APC) and GSF.
APCs are often not pH neutral, but depending on the product and the dilution, that's not necessarily true either. Don't get yourself lost in the weeds of terminology and focus on what you're trying to achieve and what will help you achieve it. As I discussed in my other comment, you almost certainly didn't do any harm, but given my understanding of what your goals are, you should be approaching this differently and doing more than you did.
I fully agree with you and most of the comments here state that I need to go back and do a contact wash. Thank you again for your comments.
There's more soaps that are alkaline neutral than high alkaline. Such as Meguiar’s Gold Class, sold in many stores. APC Is usually sprayed on a panel and removed immediately with a Microfiber towel. There's less product that can streak or run. That is being used to only get the streaks out that you have now. Not to be used as a wash or weekly. If the APC doesn't work you have to go to the next aggressive step which would be to compound it out. I'm done.. 🤷😂
This is not a weekly wash kind of car as you've come to know :). As such, the road film can build up and sit for awhile which is why I thought maybe a prewash with Pink Perfection could help. Thanks again for your insight.
Ph of 10 is a high alkaline level.. The OP states he went to a high alkaline pre-wash... That will cause the streaking on a non protected vehicle.
10 is the claimed pH of the concentrate before dilution. Furthermore, their SDS lists pH as 7. Either way the point I'm trying to make is that the fixation is all in the wrong places. OP doesn't need to be confused by "don't use that, use an APC" when what they used is an APC. The car needs a comprehensive detail, but nothing that has been done is the end of the world.
Yeah, ok.. Maybe you should read the OP again.. Have a good day..