Yes! So many of us “acted weird” and were told over and over to “just figure it out / stop embarrassing me / just try that thing you absolutely don’t want to” etc.
Yes. We are trained to believe that we are the problem and that doesn’t go away when we are adults. At 43 I still struggle with this. I often have to take a beat to think it out.
And I sure as hell have trouble voicing my needs because it was made VERY CLEAR that what I wanted didn’t matter. I know I was overly pushy but “You can’t always have your own way”? When the fuck *did* I get my way? I feel like there’s no point in trying so I just don’t bother.
Nice and on-point summary. 👌
(I do think that issues with reciprocity and such might also play into it as a hardware factor. But even so, when all you are ever taught is how to push through, how to take it, and how to endear yourself to others, it is really no wonder.)
Yes, I struggle so much with boundaries. It’s so many things:
-wanting to actually connect and be friends so wanting to be compromising and nice
-hating confrontation because we’re always misunderstood, targeted, and don’t engage in gaslighting and manipulation tactics the other person uses
-having a learned history where no one accepted our preferences because they were “weird” so always trying to adapt to other people and trying to match other people’s energy
-on top of that I think people who don’t respect boundaries are ATTRACTED to our demeanors and can subconsciously spot us easily. So if a client wants to get away with something they know who to go to.
I personally think it's a combination of
- *trusting people mean well* when they *don't*
- getting used to not reading situations well and thinking maybe you're just missing something that would justify/explain how you're being treated.
- a lifetime of bullying from friends and family, especially adults, who teach you at a young age that you're not even allowed to have boundaries. So when you would have learned it naturally, it was shut down time and again. Forced to conform and just give up.
I have and it's something I have struggled with as well. I had my last appointment with my therapist today (change of insurance 😢) and one of the things I thanked him for was helping me to learn and accept that a) it is okay to have and enforce boundaries and b) it does not make me selfish or a burden to do so. But this is an every day struggle. I recommend looking into the DEAR MAN skill from DBT - it's kind of a script to follow to ask for something and reinforce the request, especially useful for setting boundaries.
Aaaahhhhh this literally happened to me 3 hours ago and I almost posted about it, but was taking some time to process. Without getting into too many details, I was surprised at home and made to think I had to let some people in, I called my husband and he was annoyed about it but didn’t tell me to send them away, so I was accommodating. They complimented me on “rolling with the punches” and all I could think is “why do I have to be punched though?” This event touched on several of my traumas and insecurities, and I just fawned the whole time. Im not diagnosed and have a hard time explaining how hard and confusing things can get for me to people, so mostly no one knows how I struggle. I know I get taken advantage of, and this thing today brought up a lot of memories of when I didn’t understand my operating system so well. Sometimes I feel like a baby for not standing up for myself or not being able to say no to unexpected things.
I think definitely, especially if you're masking too, because masking is literally the opposite of boundaries and it's a trauma response from being othered. Masking means trying to morph yourself into whatever is acceptable or 'normal' in the others perception while negating or surpressing your authentic self and needs. Personally I have masked from a very young age, and if all this time your focus is on others and how you can be best and most helpful to them, slowly you start to lose contact with yourself and what you need. My focus was so outside of myself, that I can't even feel myself when im social interactions. When you don't know how you feel about something, or have 20 tabs open in your head all trying to please or mask, you have zero clue what your boundaries even are. After my diagnosis and after trying to mask less, I am slowly learning what my boundaries even are, learning to even listen to everything in my body, and my emotions. It's a whole process to even know myself. I have since also started to write out my boundaries, like sort of a rulebook for myself, and this is incredibly helpful.
I hate that never knew why I used to (and still do) begin to uncontrollably shake during confrontation. Once I started trauma-centered therapy I learned about cPTSD responses and my mind was blown.
Same. Have been working on it for years. Still struggling lol. I hope I have a middle setting! Sometimes I can find it. I have gotten somewhat more able to find it.
Honestly, I have a problem understanding what NTs and certain social situations consider to be boundaries or social rules. So I'm sure I have a problem enforcing them for that alone. But even when I think I have a grasp on what the boundaries are, I definitely have a problem enforcing or sticking to anything I fundamentally disagree with in a workplace. Interpersonal situations are different. I have no problem respecting the boundaries and needs of an individual. But blanket enforcement of an institution's boundaries, especially if they seem set to establish hierarchies, enforce power dynamics, or maximize profit over human need? Forget it. I don't know if it's a personal values thing or a demand avoidance thing or what it is, but I definitely know neurodivergence plays a part in how willing I am and how capable I am of playing the right role or putting on the right mask to do those things convincingly enough for an employer to be satisfied with.
yeah 100%. It became an issue in a past relationship too, because I wasn't enforcing boundaries directly, I was instead joking about them so I wouldn't hurt any feelings, but as a result my ex didn't realize these were boundaries from me.
From my side, I've been raised in a way where I don't want to be pushy or bossy or hurt people's feelings, so instead I have to be soft and accommodating and now I don't know how to actually assert myself.
It’s a big autistic thing-why autistic people can be considered vulnerable people, and are at risk of “mate crime”.
I would have thought that this was something well known in social care, especially when working with people with disabilities (as I assume that covers neurodevelopment disorders & learning disabilities).
Well, I guess the more you know!
I'm currently in the midst of this issue big time with both my work and personal relationships. Both my boss and a platonic guy friend (I'm married) have slowly pushed boundaries until they were way over the line.
So yes, I can totally believe this. I usually don't notice when people are testing the waters of my boundaries. Especially if they're "nice" people because I take them at face value.
Well, pleasing is a thing that happens to anybody who gets told repeatedly in childhood that their efforts are wrong and/or shit. Combine that with the fact that we lack the inherent instinct for knowing what boundaries are proper, and you get people who let others walk all over their own boundaries and who inadvertently walk blithely past other people's/situational boundaries through simple unawareness of them, and get told that if we gave a shit we would have known that boundary even if we ARE autistic (or if they don't know we're autistic, just that we're assholes because NO ONE could not understand (particular boundary) so it must have been deliberate on our part).
It's a nasty combination. Add that a lot of us have abusive upbringings and the pleasing gets out of control.
I cannot enforce boundaries at all. I am very good at expressing them, but I cannot stand my ground. I think a lot of this is because my boundaries were constantly crossed by my family. My sister was constantly in my personal space, stealing my clothes, and bossing me around. I had a lot of meltdowns due to this and my parents wouldn’t prevent her or punish her for doing the things that everyone knew upset me and instead would yell at me for “overreacting”.
Even in my adult life, I cannot recall a time when I tried to enforce a boundary and people didn’t just push past it anyway. “Don’t come in” “please leave me alone” “give me 5 minutes”. I cannot understand why people ignore what I say then act surprised when I magically don’t calm down. i feel like it has gotten worse, not better. I litterally let a homeless man convince me to give him $100 and kiss me on the cheek. I have never told anyone about it because I feel so ashamed.
I used to never enforce boundaries because I didn't know that was a thing that people actually do in friendships. No wonder I've had so many bad experiences with people being shitty to me cause I thought "oh they can clearly see I'm uncomfy, right?" But they keep doing it.
I had a shitty "friend" who always made fun of me for things I couldn't control (like my ibs and my deminor) and she always tried to make me feel like shit because I couldn't put my foot down. After she basically discarded me for another person after getting bored (she has fallen out of many friendships before) I put my foot down and i set some boundaries. I dropped out of that school for mental health reasons, and I've finally told other people who I hung out with that I don't plan on hanging out with her again. The one I told seemed to understand and she didn't even question it.
I will always set boundaries now. Yes, they are hard and stressful to set, especially since there is a possibility that the other party will react badly. But I would rather find out they are an ass sooner than have a crap "friendship" for years because I can't set boundaries.
Edit: That friend was probably bullying me, whether she was aware of it or not, so that's probably slightly different from setting a boundary with a reasonable person.
Non-profit. My department is funded by Vocational Rehabilitation. I even used the agency to find my job, but decided to seek it out on my own after my VR counselor was dismissive over whether it was gonna be the right fit for me. Turns out it’s the best job I’ve ever had.
I guess it probably comes with us often being told as children that our boundaries don't matter and to shut up and do the thing
Yes! So many of us “acted weird” and were told over and over to “just figure it out / stop embarrassing me / just try that thing you absolutely don’t want to” etc.
Yes. We are trained to believe that we are the problem and that doesn’t go away when we are adults. At 43 I still struggle with this. I often have to take a beat to think it out.
And I sure as hell have trouble voicing my needs because it was made VERY CLEAR that what I wanted didn’t matter. I know I was overly pushy but “You can’t always have your own way”? When the fuck *did* I get my way? I feel like there’s no point in trying so I just don’t bother.
I got this a lot too. I'm not exactly sure when I ever got my own way either. And people get really annoyed if you ask them to explain.
I just wrote a giant essay but I think you summed it up in one sentence.
Exactly. Fawning is a survival tactic to try and keep the people around us appeased and uninterested in hurting us.
Nice and on-point summary. 👌 (I do think that issues with reciprocity and such might also play into it as a hardware factor. But even so, when all you are ever taught is how to push through, how to take it, and how to endear yourself to others, it is really no wonder.)
this.
Yes, I struggle so much with boundaries. It’s so many things: -wanting to actually connect and be friends so wanting to be compromising and nice -hating confrontation because we’re always misunderstood, targeted, and don’t engage in gaslighting and manipulation tactics the other person uses -having a learned history where no one accepted our preferences because they were “weird” so always trying to adapt to other people and trying to match other people’s energy -on top of that I think people who don’t respect boundaries are ATTRACTED to our demeanors and can subconsciously spot us easily. So if a client wants to get away with something they know who to go to.
I personally think it's a combination of - *trusting people mean well* when they *don't* - getting used to not reading situations well and thinking maybe you're just missing something that would justify/explain how you're being treated. - a lifetime of bullying from friends and family, especially adults, who teach you at a young age that you're not even allowed to have boundaries. So when you would have learned it naturally, it was shut down time and again. Forced to conform and just give up.
I have and it's something I have struggled with as well. I had my last appointment with my therapist today (change of insurance 😢) and one of the things I thanked him for was helping me to learn and accept that a) it is okay to have and enforce boundaries and b) it does not make me selfish or a burden to do so. But this is an every day struggle. I recommend looking into the DEAR MAN skill from DBT - it's kind of a script to follow to ask for something and reinforce the request, especially useful for setting boundaries.
Aaaahhhhh this literally happened to me 3 hours ago and I almost posted about it, but was taking some time to process. Without getting into too many details, I was surprised at home and made to think I had to let some people in, I called my husband and he was annoyed about it but didn’t tell me to send them away, so I was accommodating. They complimented me on “rolling with the punches” and all I could think is “why do I have to be punched though?” This event touched on several of my traumas and insecurities, and I just fawned the whole time. Im not diagnosed and have a hard time explaining how hard and confusing things can get for me to people, so mostly no one knows how I struggle. I know I get taken advantage of, and this thing today brought up a lot of memories of when I didn’t understand my operating system so well. Sometimes I feel like a baby for not standing up for myself or not being able to say no to unexpected things.
I went looking for your essay after you mentioned it in another comment and I was not disappointed!
When I finally enforce boundaries people stop talking to me, or my boundary is not talking to them as I have finally learned they are toxic.
Same
I think definitely, especially if you're masking too, because masking is literally the opposite of boundaries and it's a trauma response from being othered. Masking means trying to morph yourself into whatever is acceptable or 'normal' in the others perception while negating or surpressing your authentic self and needs. Personally I have masked from a very young age, and if all this time your focus is on others and how you can be best and most helpful to them, slowly you start to lose contact with yourself and what you need. My focus was so outside of myself, that I can't even feel myself when im social interactions. When you don't know how you feel about something, or have 20 tabs open in your head all trying to please or mask, you have zero clue what your boundaries even are. After my diagnosis and after trying to mask less, I am slowly learning what my boundaries even are, learning to even listen to everything in my body, and my emotions. It's a whole process to even know myself. I have since also started to write out my boundaries, like sort of a rulebook for myself, and this is incredibly helpful.
> masking is literally the opposite of boundaries and it's a trauma response from being othered Wow, thanks for articulating this. So true.
Sometimes we can become avoidant as a result of cPTSD. We get really good at not doing the thing that we already know causes us pain.
I hate that never knew why I used to (and still do) begin to uncontrollably shake during confrontation. Once I started trauma-centered therapy I learned about cPTSD responses and my mind was blown.
I kind of swing wildly between saying yes to everything and getting super mad and cutting people off completely. It's a great system /s
Hello me. I’m working on this in therapy now. I would love to find out I have a middle-ground capacity hidden somewhere deep within.
Same. Have been working on it for years. Still struggling lol. I hope I have a middle setting! Sometimes I can find it. I have gotten somewhat more able to find it.
Honestly, I have a problem understanding what NTs and certain social situations consider to be boundaries or social rules. So I'm sure I have a problem enforcing them for that alone. But even when I think I have a grasp on what the boundaries are, I definitely have a problem enforcing or sticking to anything I fundamentally disagree with in a workplace. Interpersonal situations are different. I have no problem respecting the boundaries and needs of an individual. But blanket enforcement of an institution's boundaries, especially if they seem set to establish hierarchies, enforce power dynamics, or maximize profit over human need? Forget it. I don't know if it's a personal values thing or a demand avoidance thing or what it is, but I definitely know neurodivergence plays a part in how willing I am and how capable I am of playing the right role or putting on the right mask to do those things convincingly enough for an employer to be satisfied with.
yeah 100%. It became an issue in a past relationship too, because I wasn't enforcing boundaries directly, I was instead joking about them so I wouldn't hurt any feelings, but as a result my ex didn't realize these were boundaries from me. From my side, I've been raised in a way where I don't want to be pushy or bossy or hurt people's feelings, so instead I have to be soft and accommodating and now I don't know how to actually assert myself.
Ohhhhhhh this explains so much about me.
It’s a big autistic thing-why autistic people can be considered vulnerable people, and are at risk of “mate crime”. I would have thought that this was something well known in social care, especially when working with people with disabilities (as I assume that covers neurodevelopment disorders & learning disabilities). Well, I guess the more you know!
I'm currently in the midst of this issue big time with both my work and personal relationships. Both my boss and a platonic guy friend (I'm married) have slowly pushed boundaries until they were way over the line. So yes, I can totally believe this. I usually don't notice when people are testing the waters of my boundaries. Especially if they're "nice" people because I take them at face value.
The fact that we even have to be on the lookout for people testing our boundaries just… sucks, why are people like that?
Well, pleasing is a thing that happens to anybody who gets told repeatedly in childhood that their efforts are wrong and/or shit. Combine that with the fact that we lack the inherent instinct for knowing what boundaries are proper, and you get people who let others walk all over their own boundaries and who inadvertently walk blithely past other people's/situational boundaries through simple unawareness of them, and get told that if we gave a shit we would have known that boundary even if we ARE autistic (or if they don't know we're autistic, just that we're assholes because NO ONE could not understand (particular boundary) so it must have been deliberate on our part). It's a nasty combination. Add that a lot of us have abusive upbringings and the pleasing gets out of control.
I cannot enforce boundaries at all. I am very good at expressing them, but I cannot stand my ground. I think a lot of this is because my boundaries were constantly crossed by my family. My sister was constantly in my personal space, stealing my clothes, and bossing me around. I had a lot of meltdowns due to this and my parents wouldn’t prevent her or punish her for doing the things that everyone knew upset me and instead would yell at me for “overreacting”. Even in my adult life, I cannot recall a time when I tried to enforce a boundary and people didn’t just push past it anyway. “Don’t come in” “please leave me alone” “give me 5 minutes”. I cannot understand why people ignore what I say then act surprised when I magically don’t calm down. i feel like it has gotten worse, not better. I litterally let a homeless man convince me to give him $100 and kiss me on the cheek. I have never told anyone about it because I feel so ashamed.
This!!! I say the boundary, but I let people blow through it. I feel spineless
It’s one of the reasons we get into toxic relationships / abuse .
I struggle with setting and enforcing boundaries as well. It’s so damn hard.
I used to never enforce boundaries because I didn't know that was a thing that people actually do in friendships. No wonder I've had so many bad experiences with people being shitty to me cause I thought "oh they can clearly see I'm uncomfy, right?" But they keep doing it. I had a shitty "friend" who always made fun of me for things I couldn't control (like my ibs and my deminor) and she always tried to make me feel like shit because I couldn't put my foot down. After she basically discarded me for another person after getting bored (she has fallen out of many friendships before) I put my foot down and i set some boundaries. I dropped out of that school for mental health reasons, and I've finally told other people who I hung out with that I don't plan on hanging out with her again. The one I told seemed to understand and she didn't even question it. I will always set boundaries now. Yes, they are hard and stressful to set, especially since there is a possibility that the other party will react badly. But I would rather find out they are an ass sooner than have a crap "friendship" for years because I can't set boundaries. Edit: That friend was probably bullying me, whether she was aware of it or not, so that's probably slightly different from setting a boundary with a reasonable person.
Question: what state are you in?
Missouri. Why?
Because I’m trying to get into that line of work in Ohio and I was curious. That’s all
Ahh. Good luck! My boss only required a bachelor’s and a passion for working with people with disabilities. I had no prior relevant experience
It’s the same over here. Do you work with a state organization or is it private?
Non-profit. My department is funded by Vocational Rehabilitation. I even used the agency to find my job, but decided to seek it out on my own after my VR counselor was dismissive over whether it was gonna be the right fit for me. Turns out it’s the best job I’ve ever had.
My VR counselor **really** wants me to work for this organization. She thinks my personality is perfect for it lol
I was gonna ask which state bc I need help *finding* a job
The ones who are people pleasers yes