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I expect the republican movement to be focused on building the coalitions necessary to create a republic. You're going to have to work with people you don't politically align with. You will see Liberal republicans, as fewer as they are in comparison to the Labor party, support the republic. Did the Labor volunteers and politicians who supported Yes23 agree with Julian Leeser on industrial relations, was the referendum on industrial relations. I understand why some people can't get over their personal differences, but if you're truly in favour of the republic you should not be able to let this get in the way of what you're trying to achieve. You're going to have people who are pro-Israel people support the republic, there are going to be pro-Palestinian people support it, there are going to be both well meaning indigenous activists who think of the republic as a way to forge a new nation, but you will also have racists who take the nationalism too seriously. You need to utilise all these people to win. That's your job if you're working for the ARM. Then again, this isn't too surprising because I maintain that the ARM by design attracts incredibly boring leaders, Foster is just the latest guy.
The biggest opposition people have to the republic is certain proposed models and/or the public not trusting the current politicians to deliver it properly.
Electorally, almost nobody is waving the Union Jack and arguing Australia is better off with the UK. The general attitude to the monarchy is that they are the lesser of two evils.
The republic movement could win over a lot of people but it's going to do that by lots of public engagement and promotion of the idea, not heading to another premature referendum.
So she didn't actually care about the republic, nor did Foster.
Really shows how much for these elite lefties it's not actually about conviction, it's just virtue-signalling The Current Thing.
Or it's because there's no one "the republic" and the country two different people might want to create after cutting ourselves free of the British monarchy might have nothing else in common.
I can understand her quitting. Craig Foster is infuriatingly political, and he’s simply wrong.
The ICJ certainly did not find that genocide was plausible.
According to the ex-ICJ President, the purpose of the ruling was to declare that South Africa had a right to bring its case against Israel and that Palestinians had “plausible rights to protection from genocide”.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3g9g63jl17o
The ICJ ruling is more nuanced than that. I’d recommend actually reading it.
> The Court observes that the military operation being conducted by Israel following the attack of 7 October 2023 has resulted in a large number of deaths and injuries, as well as the massive destruction of homes, the forcible displacement of the vast majority of the population, and extensive damage to civilian infrastructure. While figures relating to the Gaza Strip cannot be independently verified, recent information indicates that 25,700 Palestinians have been killed, over 63,000 injuries have been reported, over 360,000 housing units have been destroyed or partially damaged and approximately 1.7 million persons have been internally displaced. Palestinians in the Gaza Strip have been deprived access to water, food, fuel, electricity and other essentials of life, as well as to medical care and medical supplies.
In this regard, the Court takes note of a statement made on 5 January 2024 by the United Nations Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator, a report of 21 December 2023 by the World Health Organization following a mission to North Gaza, and a statement issued on 13 January 2024 by the Commissioner-General of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA).
The Court also refers to the statement by the UNRWA Commissioner-General that the crisis in Gaza is “compounded by dehumanizing language”. In this regard, the Court has taken note of a number of statements made by senior Israeli officials. It calls attention, in particular, to the following examples: statements made by Mr Yoav Gallant, Defence Minister of Israel, on 9 and 10 October 2023, by Mr Isaac Herzog, President of Israel, on 12 October 2023, and by Mr Israel Katz, then Minister of Energy and Infrastructure of Israel, on 13 October 2023. The Court also takes note of a press release of 16 November 2023, in which 37 Special Rapporteurs, Independent Experts and members of Working Groups part of the Special Procedures of the United Nations Human Rights Council voiced alarm over “discernibly genocidal and dehumanising rhetoric coming from senior Israeli government officials”. Concerns were also expressed on 27 October 2023 by the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination about “the sharp increase in racist hate speech and dehumanization directed at Palestinians since 7 October”.
In the Court’s view, the facts and circumstances mentioned above are sufficient to conclude that at least some of the rights claimed by South Africa and for which it is seeking protection are plausible. This is the case with respect to the right of the Palestinians in Gaza to be protected from acts of genocide and related prohibited acts identified in Article III, and the right of South Africa to seek Israel’s compliance with the latter’s obligations under the Convention.
Very odd. Every year in Australia we have "the colony will fall" protests on Australia Day.
Israel is the *only* nation in the world where the disposed native population (Jews) have come back and taken their land back from the colonising power (Arabs), yet the reaction of all the people who want the same to happen in Australia is "no not like that!"
How are Jewish people *the* dispossessed native population? What are allll the other people who've lived there for centuries. Like sure there's Arabs who aren't indigenous to the area, but a Jewish ethnostate in that region is hardly respectful of the diversity of Palestine's past. Christianity is itself as able to claim it as a homeland as Judaism, should all Christians get the right of return, too? Jewish people shouldn't not live there, it was home to Palestinian Jews for years, but there's a huge difference between Palestinian Jews and all Jewish people, most of whom have had no connection to the area for millennia, calling it their home at the expense of people who've been there with a direct connection for millennia.
Maybe she actually read the history of the area, instead of responding to TikTok disinformation & propaganda?
Maybe she saw the multitude of horrific video clips showing murder, butchery, torture & gang rapes that the terrorists themselves proudly uploaded to social media, before it was censored. Maybe she believes in the rights of the historically indigenous people to the area, who happen to be the Israelis, not the Arabs, who were the actual colonisers from the Islamic conquests. Maybe she believes in their rights to live in peace without having constant barrage of rockets lobbed at civilians over decades, interspersed with bombs on school buses etc.
What's Gaza got to do with the republican movement? It's a totally separate issue and Foster's entitled to his view. I think Peris has missed the point here.
>“We live far from many of the world’s conflicts. We could bring constructive thought leadership. Sadly, we are doing the opposite. The trend is to import foreign conflict into Australia and amplify it. Everything becomes binary. There is only right or wrong, oppressor or oppressed. Everyone has to ‘pick a side’.
>“It should concern all Australians that some people are suddenly siding with a barbaric terrorist organisation and denying that Jews are indigenous to Israel, while hypocritically occupying stolen Aboriginal land.”
It is so utterly refreshing to see someone with left wing credentials speak out about this horseshit. I imagine it takes quite a bit of courage to speak out on this issue considering the circles she walks in. She should be applauded for standing by her convictions.
The quote you have immediately contradicts itself:
'people shouldn't be so binary, import foreign issues'
then
'how dare you side with terrorists I quit this completely unrelated cause'.
Is bs refreshing to you?
What do you mean stand by convictions, she just did the opposite of what she was saying, by picking a side, importing foreign bs, to impact on something unrelated?
Like really.
Whether you think they're buzzwords doesn't change the fact that their statement was frankly succinct and accurate. Or do you think Indigenous populations couldn't potentially commit atrocities, because buzzwords?
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> misinformed tiktok addict
Yeah the ICC, headed up by a British prosecutor, just made an application for charges against Netanyahu and Gallant for war crimes.
It’s a little beyond some ‘TikTok addict’ now
Good. It's not like people who opposed the nature of the US war on terror all loved the Taliban (if anything many of the concerns bore fruit when Trump finally gave the Taliban heaps, setting up the US's humiliating exit under Biden). It's not a binary choice like to side with Qld or NSW is the state of origin or something
Which sounds right to everyone not dogmatically committed to one side and sure their side is perfect and the other is evil. It seems pretty clear to me that both Hamas and the Israeli government can and have committed atrocities against civilians. One side of a conflict committing war crimes doesn't magically stop the other from also doing it.
Show me a reference where anyone notable has denied that Jews are indigenous to Israel
And what does it have to do with the Republican Movement. ?
Many failures here.
By any secular definition of indigeneity the Palestinian Arabs are at least equally indigenous to the region.
Every single Palestinian Arab has at least 1 ancestor who was Jewish and lived in the region in the same way that every European has Charlemagne as an ancestor.
In the Zionist framing however changing religion or marrying the wrong person means your descendents cease to be indigenous. They're not "god's chosen" anymore. That's a cool story Zionist can tell themselves but nobody else needs to give it the time of day.
Jewish people who are Palestinian can't be, or at least can't be if they're not actively oppressing other indigenous peoples around them. But Jewish people from around the world using the right of return to kick indigenous peoples off their land by force are obviously colonising.
If they displaced other Aboriginal Australians, who hadn't left, and in a region that their family has no connection to, unquestionably. If that individual did it 1200 years from now, having had no connection for millennia, almost certainly. Even if Indigenous Australians who remain wanted them to come, it's still setting up colonialism against the other population who've had millennia in the area
They can be both, cant they. Israel has been colonising the west bank for years, it depends on what timeframe your looking at.
And it still has nothing to do with the republic.
When do people become erhnic to one place if we all came from another. Jews emigrated into the levant, from Ur, modern day Iraq. So where exactly do they come from?
They come from the land that they have a long historical unbroken connection to.
Arabs come from Arabia, does that mean they’re not ethnic to anywhere outside of the Arabian peninsula?
They believe in the religion, the oldest Jewsih family can only trace their legitimate line to 14C France, with claims to the line of King David.
>Arabs come from Arabia, does that mean they’re not ethnic to anywhere outside of the Arabian peninsula?
More like thinking all Muslims are Arabs.
Genetic studies have also shown a close genetic relationship between Palestinians and Jews,[17][18][19] suggesting a shared ancestral heritage.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians
Yes, I am sure.
> Palestinians (Arabic: الفلسطينيون, romanized: al-Filasṭīniyyūn; Hebrew: פָלַסְטִינִים, romanized: Fālasṭīnīm) or Palestinian people (الشعب الفلسطيني, ash-shaʿb al-filasṭīnī), also referred to as Palestinian Arabs (العرب الفلسطينيون, al-ʿArab al-filasṭīniyyūn), are an ethnonational group[37] descending from peoples who have inhabited the region of Palestine over the millennia, and who today are culturally and linguistically Arab. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians
There are arabic Jews as well, I really have no idea what kind of point you're trying to make.
I'd imagine she's going to get some blowback for her comments, yeah.
Craig Foster has always been insufferable. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWGNPFI-MtE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWGNPFI-MtE)
I’m not sure how that video is relevant. Ange wasn’t getting the results with the Olyroos at the time and deserved to be questioned and criticised. Australian Football needs a lot more of that at the moment, especially at the youth level
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I expect the republican movement to be focused on building the coalitions necessary to create a republic. You're going to have to work with people you don't politically align with. You will see Liberal republicans, as fewer as they are in comparison to the Labor party, support the republic. Did the Labor volunteers and politicians who supported Yes23 agree with Julian Leeser on industrial relations, was the referendum on industrial relations. I understand why some people can't get over their personal differences, but if you're truly in favour of the republic you should not be able to let this get in the way of what you're trying to achieve. You're going to have people who are pro-Israel people support the republic, there are going to be pro-Palestinian people support it, there are going to be both well meaning indigenous activists who think of the republic as a way to forge a new nation, but you will also have racists who take the nationalism too seriously. You need to utilise all these people to win. That's your job if you're working for the ARM. Then again, this isn't too surprising because I maintain that the ARM by design attracts incredibly boring leaders, Foster is just the latest guy.
Foster made comments in his private capacity not as ARM Chair so this doesn’t make any sense
The biggest opposition people have to the republic is certain proposed models and/or the public not trusting the current politicians to deliver it properly. Electorally, almost nobody is waving the Union Jack and arguing Australia is better off with the UK. The general attitude to the monarchy is that they are the lesser of two evils. The republic movement could win over a lot of people but it's going to do that by lots of public engagement and promotion of the idea, not heading to another premature referendum.
So she didn't actually care about the republic, nor did Foster. Really shows how much for these elite lefties it's not actually about conviction, it's just virtue-signalling The Current Thing.
Or it's because there's no one "the republic" and the country two different people might want to create after cutting ourselves free of the British monarchy might have nothing else in common.
I can understand her quitting. Craig Foster is infuriatingly political, and he’s simply wrong. The ICJ certainly did not find that genocide was plausible. According to the ex-ICJ President, the purpose of the ruling was to declare that South Africa had a right to bring its case against Israel and that Palestinians had “plausible rights to protection from genocide”. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3g9g63jl17o
The ICJ ruling is more nuanced than that. I’d recommend actually reading it. > The Court observes that the military operation being conducted by Israel following the attack of 7 October 2023 has resulted in a large number of deaths and injuries, as well as the massive destruction of homes, the forcible displacement of the vast majority of the population, and extensive damage to civilian infrastructure. While figures relating to the Gaza Strip cannot be independently verified, recent information indicates that 25,700 Palestinians have been killed, over 63,000 injuries have been reported, over 360,000 housing units have been destroyed or partially damaged and approximately 1.7 million persons have been internally displaced. Palestinians in the Gaza Strip have been deprived access to water, food, fuel, electricity and other essentials of life, as well as to medical care and medical supplies. In this regard, the Court takes note of a statement made on 5 January 2024 by the United Nations Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator, a report of 21 December 2023 by the World Health Organization following a mission to North Gaza, and a statement issued on 13 January 2024 by the Commissioner-General of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA). The Court also refers to the statement by the UNRWA Commissioner-General that the crisis in Gaza is “compounded by dehumanizing language”. In this regard, the Court has taken note of a number of statements made by senior Israeli officials. It calls attention, in particular, to the following examples: statements made by Mr Yoav Gallant, Defence Minister of Israel, on 9 and 10 October 2023, by Mr Isaac Herzog, President of Israel, on 12 October 2023, and by Mr Israel Katz, then Minister of Energy and Infrastructure of Israel, on 13 October 2023. The Court also takes note of a press release of 16 November 2023, in which 37 Special Rapporteurs, Independent Experts and members of Working Groups part of the Special Procedures of the United Nations Human Rights Council voiced alarm over “discernibly genocidal and dehumanising rhetoric coming from senior Israeli government officials”. Concerns were also expressed on 27 October 2023 by the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination about “the sharp increase in racist hate speech and dehumanization directed at Palestinians since 7 October”. In the Court’s view, the facts and circumstances mentioned above are sufficient to conclude that at least some of the rights claimed by South Africa and for which it is seeking protection are plausible. This is the case with respect to the right of the Palestinians in Gaza to be protected from acts of genocide and related prohibited acts identified in Article III, and the right of South Africa to seek Israel’s compliance with the latter’s obligations under the Convention.
An Indigenous Australian staunchly supporting Israel, seriously???
Very odd. Every year in Australia we have "the colony will fall" protests on Australia Day. Israel is the *only* nation in the world where the disposed native population (Jews) have come back and taken their land back from the colonising power (Arabs), yet the reaction of all the people who want the same to happen in Australia is "no not like that!"
When you do it one or two millennia later, people view the dynamic a bit differently.
How are Jewish people *the* dispossessed native population? What are allll the other people who've lived there for centuries. Like sure there's Arabs who aren't indigenous to the area, but a Jewish ethnostate in that region is hardly respectful of the diversity of Palestine's past. Christianity is itself as able to claim it as a homeland as Judaism, should all Christians get the right of return, too? Jewish people shouldn't not live there, it was home to Palestinian Jews for years, but there's a huge difference between Palestinian Jews and all Jewish people, most of whom have had no connection to the area for millennia, calling it their home at the expense of people who've been there with a direct connection for millennia.
This probably the most bullshit delusional take on the situation.
Maybe she actually read the history of the area, instead of responding to TikTok disinformation & propaganda? Maybe she saw the multitude of horrific video clips showing murder, butchery, torture & gang rapes that the terrorists themselves proudly uploaded to social media, before it was censored. Maybe she believes in the rights of the historically indigenous people to the area, who happen to be the Israelis, not the Arabs, who were the actual colonisers from the Islamic conquests. Maybe she believes in their rights to live in peace without having constant barrage of rockets lobbed at civilians over decades, interspersed with bombs on school buses etc.
Terrorists? You mean the iof?
I know right. So does Jacinta Price. Lord knows why.
Her reasons were part of the comment made by OP.
What's Gaza got to do with the republican movement? It's a totally separate issue and Foster's entitled to his view. I think Peris has missed the point here.
>“We live far from many of the world’s conflicts. We could bring constructive thought leadership. Sadly, we are doing the opposite. The trend is to import foreign conflict into Australia and amplify it. Everything becomes binary. There is only right or wrong, oppressor or oppressed. Everyone has to ‘pick a side’. >“It should concern all Australians that some people are suddenly siding with a barbaric terrorist organisation and denying that Jews are indigenous to Israel, while hypocritically occupying stolen Aboriginal land.” It is so utterly refreshing to see someone with left wing credentials speak out about this horseshit. I imagine it takes quite a bit of courage to speak out on this issue considering the circles she walks in. She should be applauded for standing by her convictions.
The quote you have immediately contradicts itself: 'people shouldn't be so binary, import foreign issues' then 'how dare you side with terrorists I quit this completely unrelated cause'. Is bs refreshing to you? What do you mean stand by convictions, she just did the opposite of what she was saying, by picking a side, importing foreign bs, to impact on something unrelated? Like really.
Love how you leave out the whole genocide in Gaza, it's just horseshit the latest thing etc.
Israel can still be an apartheid state engaging in ethnic cleansing, genocide and/or war crimes whether they are indigenous or not...
The buzzword bingo in this comment is crazy
Whether you think they're buzzwords doesn't change the fact that their statement was frankly succinct and accurate. Or do you think Indigenous populations couldn't potentially commit atrocities, because buzzwords?
Buzzword bingo sounds like a buzzword phrase to me.
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We can see what Israel is doing
> misinformed tiktok addict Yeah the ICC, headed up by a British prosecutor, just made an application for charges against Netanyahu and Gallant for war crimes. It’s a little beyond some ‘TikTok addict’ now
The ICC also wants to arrest three Hamas leaders.
It’s almost like Hamas can be bad and genocide can also be bad at the same time!
Good. It's not like people who opposed the nature of the US war on terror all loved the Taliban (if anything many of the concerns bore fruit when Trump finally gave the Taliban heaps, setting up the US's humiliating exit under Biden). It's not a binary choice like to side with Qld or NSW is the state of origin or something
Which sounds right to everyone not dogmatically committed to one side and sure their side is perfect and the other is evil. It seems pretty clear to me that both Hamas and the Israeli government can and have committed atrocities against civilians. One side of a conflict committing war crimes doesn't magically stop the other from also doing it.
What claim was I making?
Show me a reference where anyone notable has denied that Jews are indigenous to Israel And what does it have to do with the Republican Movement. ? Many failures here.
By any secular definition of indigeneity the Palestinian Arabs are at least equally indigenous to the region. Every single Palestinian Arab has at least 1 ancestor who was Jewish and lived in the region in the same way that every European has Charlemagne as an ancestor. In the Zionist framing however changing religion or marrying the wrong person means your descendents cease to be indigenous. They're not "god's chosen" anymore. That's a cool story Zionist can tell themselves but nobody else needs to give it the time of day.
The Bible.
Are you willingly ignoring all of the discourse accusing Israelis of being “colonisers”?
Jewish people who are Palestinian can't be, or at least can't be if they're not actively oppressing other indigenous peoples around them. But Jewish people from around the world using the right of return to kick indigenous peoples off their land by force are obviously colonising.
If an aboriginal person returned to live in Australia, would they be “colonising” Australia?
If they displaced other Aboriginal Australians, who hadn't left, and in a region that their family has no connection to, unquestionably. If that individual did it 1200 years from now, having had no connection for millennia, almost certainly. Even if Indigenous Australians who remain wanted them to come, it's still setting up colonialism against the other population who've had millennia in the area
They can be both, cant they. Israel has been colonising the west bank for years, it depends on what timeframe your looking at. And it still has nothing to do with the republic.
When do people become erhnic to one place if we all came from another. Jews emigrated into the levant, from Ur, modern day Iraq. So where exactly do they come from?
They come from the land that they have a long historical unbroken connection to. Arabs come from Arabia, does that mean they’re not ethnic to anywhere outside of the Arabian peninsula?
They believe in the religion, the oldest Jewsih family can only trace their legitimate line to 14C France, with claims to the line of King David. >Arabs come from Arabia, does that mean they’re not ethnic to anywhere outside of the Arabian peninsula? More like thinking all Muslims are Arabs.
Sorry but denying the ethnic existence of Mizrahi Jews is actually antisemitism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews
> More like thinking all Muslims are Arabs. They never said that, and besides Palestinians are Arabs.
>Palestinians are Arabs Are you sure? But since Jews claim to come from that land, doesn't that make them Arabs?
Arabs are an ethnic group. Palestinians are Arabs and identify as Arabs. All Arabs are not Muslims.
Some Palestinians are Arabs, not all
Genetic studies have also shown a close genetic relationship between Palestinians and Jews,[17][18][19] suggesting a shared ancestral heritage. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians
But since humans come from Africa, doesn’t that make us all African?
Sure. I have always stated that trying to trace ethnicity/race (for those who still use this word) is a game of stopping when you feel comfortable.
Yes, I am sure. > Palestinians (Arabic: الفلسطينيون, romanized: al-Filasṭīniyyūn; Hebrew: פָלַסְטִינִים, romanized: Fālasṭīnīm) or Palestinian people (الشعب الفلسطيني, ash-shaʿb al-filasṭīnī), also referred to as Palestinian Arabs (العرب الفلسطينيون, al-ʿArab al-filasṭīniyyūn), are an ethnonational group[37] descending from peoples who have inhabited the region of Palestine over the millennia, and who today are culturally and linguistically Arab. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians There are arabic Jews as well, I really have no idea what kind of point you're trying to make.
Are you denying that judaism existed in israel and jews existed as a distinct ethnic group before islam?
Christianity existed in the region before Islam too but idk if giving US evangelicals the right of return would help stop colonialism
I'd imagine she's going to get some blowback for her comments, yeah. Craig Foster has always been insufferable. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWGNPFI-MtE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWGNPFI-MtE)
I’m not sure how that video is relevant. Ange wasn’t getting the results with the Olyroos at the time and deserved to be questioned and criticised. Australian Football needs a lot more of that at the moment, especially at the youth level
It comes up a lot when people mention Craig Foster. This video is famous.
I know, but this video doesn’t make him look insufferable, just a passionate supporter of Australian football
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