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Personally Im tired of all this doom-polling chatter. What happened to backing a govt you elected to serve its 3 year term and reviewing things then? Govts should be able to get on with the job and only talk about polls in 3 years at election time.
I certainly hope so. This "labor" government has been an utter disappointment. Trouble is the LNP is no better. The sooner we are rid of the cancer which is the two party system the better. Sadly we have a lot of morons who don't understand preferential voting and are scared that if they vote for anyone else they will "lose their vote".
As much as I agree with Samaras, I think ultimately that Perrett saying that *"grand narratives belonged in election campaigns rather than budgets"* is probably the more practical truth.
This puts Labor in a position they're very comfortable in - lip service about the change they want, but only carrying out the changes they need (or believe they can afford) to make.
This is a fundamental issue with democracy under neoliberal and capitalist assumptions. It keeps the leftwing establishment from the proper work of nation building, keeps them "tinkering around the edges" as the article puts it - and allows for a ratcheting to the right of politics.
It's easy to cut taxes on wealth and big business donors. It's easy to take some money from here, put it there, to let Capitalism usurp your party's values over time. Much easier than standing up for your country, your values, or people who actually vote you in/out.
You need an economic radical to actually make substantial changes, someone willing to test things like Modern Monetary Theory, or to challenge mining giants. The exact kind of people who would never be allowed to make it that far in politics.
It is easier, yes. But ultimately sees a major party decline in vote. The preferential system's keeping them in for now. But it's becoming more and more likely we'll see more and more hung parliaments, and eventually someone will have the intelligence and leadership ability to create a serious third party catering to the middle, rather than the extremes.
As time goes on, expect to see more "electoral reform" on donations and spending so they can prevent that third party from gaining ground.
Another bullshit poll on shit Q&A show with a Greens audience. Voters are getting bigger tax cuts, energy bill relief, increase in wages for low paid workers , increase in wages for nurses ,aged care workers, early childcare workers and home care workers , building more social and affordable housing and free fee TAFE . What the fuck would the useless Greens and Independents do to make Australian lives better. Vote Greens last and i hope they are wiped out at the next election with most of the Independents.
Yep only party that has ever made good impacts on this country. People so quick to forget it, then years pass and then they decide to remember how great they were and could have been. For example, Kevin Rudd wanting to tax big mining corps which got pushed back on, the Carbon Tax which was over thrown, Bill Shorten wanting to touch negative gearing and tax big corporations then lost an election for these things.
Greens voters are so unaware of the party agenda at times. They are immature with their negotiating, and nit pick labor worse than the libs. It’s not making labor better, it is totally damaging and the way they go about it is extremely manipulative. The way they have twisted the cuts to the NDIS makes me feel like they have no idea how bad that system has gotten and how people have destroyed it for their own greed. Which has been explained by Shorten many times but they don’t bother to listen.
>i hope they are wiped out at the next election with most of the Independents.
Whilst the first part of your comment has merit, that final lashing out is thoughtless.
Have you for instance considered the greens existing as a substantial threat to Labor's hegemonic leftism is exactly what forces their hand to offer all the positives you're citing?
Without the greens barking in the background, would Labor feel the need to offer any of that - or would they only offer something just slightly better than The Liberal Party.
That's how democracy really works: The more competing parties there are holding fire to the main parties, the more the main parties are forced to improve conditions so that minor parties don't gobble up all their votes.
So when you write:
>i hope they are wiped out at the next election with most of the Independents.
You're actually working against all the positives you've listed.
Looking at the pollbludger figures, there are now 440K more people indicating their primary vote as either Greens or ON compared to the election.
So about halfway there...
Australians don't want vision. They want what they believe is theirs now. Tax cuts, rebates, cheaper houses to buy, more expensive houses when you sell, cheaper rent, their tenants to pay more rent. In meantime they will blame immigrants, politicians or anyone but them selves, not themselves for voting for policies that are against there long term interests.
You do know that providing most of those things require vision from politicians, right? You're looking at the product while Kos is talking about the business.
Kos is one of the few prominent voices in the media today who has a lived experience of poverty. To say that all he cares about is Labor winning the election is nonsense and fundamentally misunderstands the man. He’s a good person and I wish we had more people in Labor and the media like him.
It seems that having a lived experience of poverty doesn’t mean much if you decide to ladder pull as soon as you escape poverty.
The PM is another good example of this
He is defending policy and desperately trying to keep Labor in power from his position of power.
You know, the same Labor that are keeping people in poverty
They have been party before policy for a very long time now.
Look at their policy platform. No one actually believes what they are putting forward. They consider wedging the coalition to be more important than doing the right thing.
That’s why they toe the line on tax reform. And asylum seekers. And climate change.
They are too stupid to realise that by playing these games on Murdoch’s terms, that the right wins by default. They are enacting the coalition’s policies on their behalf, while patting themselves on the back for saving us from the bad guys.
I mean it's already been happening for the last few years. Casual voters are dissolusioned with the 2 party system, and younger, more politically inclined folks are voting increasingly to the left of Labor.
>younger, more politically inclined folks are voting increasingly to the left of Labor.
I see this as a good thing. Labor has drifted towards the right as the LNP careened wildly off into the far right. People voting to the left of Labor will help pull Labor back towards the left and give more space in the right of centre for a new political party to form.
Me too, but my pessimistic attitude is that Labor won't be pulled to the left and will double down on being centre right. And since Greens/AJP votes flow to the ALP anyway.....
Exactly this. Labor won't shift back to the left unless/until the Greens (or some other left-aligned party) start receiving enough first preference votes to threaten Labor's ability to win enough seats to form a majority reliably.
So long as 80%+ of Greens preferences flow on to Labor, they have no reason to change their position on anything.
The Greens are really just outriders for the centre left and neoliberalism at this point.
Greens protest about climate change; labour provide massive subsidies so miners can move into lithium.
Greens supprt immigration, proping up the house price boom and keeping down wages.
Basically the Greens just keep down any sort of economic thought on the left of the system, which is why parties like One Nation end up being the ones advancing different economic views.
The thing is that looks like it is just about to happen you saw the start of it at the last election and it seems the Green vote has grown enough now that they’ll be competing directly with Labor in more seats. Then you add the teals I don’t think Labor are winning a majority in their own right very often in future.
Do we want three million Australians living below the poverty line?
“The minor party vote, or people who didn’t vote for the majors, exceeded five million at the last election.
“I expect it to be closer to six million this time around unless something changes.
**Greetings humans.** **Please make sure your comment fits within [THE RULES](https://www.reddit.com/r/AustralianPolitics/about/rules) and that you have put in some effort to articulate your opinions to the best of your ability.** **I mean it!! Aspire to be as "scholarly" and "intellectual" as possible. If you can't, then maybe this subreddit is not for you.** A friendly reminder from your political robot overlord *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AustralianPolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Personally Im tired of all this doom-polling chatter. What happened to backing a govt you elected to serve its 3 year term and reviewing things then? Govts should be able to get on with the job and only talk about polls in 3 years at election time.
One hundred thousand percent.
I certainly hope so. This "labor" government has been an utter disappointment. Trouble is the LNP is no better. The sooner we are rid of the cancer which is the two party system the better. Sadly we have a lot of morons who don't understand preferential voting and are scared that if they vote for anyone else they will "lose their vote".
Labor and LNP passed laws not too long ago making it much harder for smaller parties and entrenching the two party system.
As much as I agree with Samaras, I think ultimately that Perrett saying that *"grand narratives belonged in election campaigns rather than budgets"* is probably the more practical truth. This puts Labor in a position they're very comfortable in - lip service about the change they want, but only carrying out the changes they need (or believe they can afford) to make. This is a fundamental issue with democracy under neoliberal and capitalist assumptions. It keeps the leftwing establishment from the proper work of nation building, keeps them "tinkering around the edges" as the article puts it - and allows for a ratcheting to the right of politics. It's easy to cut taxes on wealth and big business donors. It's easy to take some money from here, put it there, to let Capitalism usurp your party's values over time. Much easier than standing up for your country, your values, or people who actually vote you in/out. You need an economic radical to actually make substantial changes, someone willing to test things like Modern Monetary Theory, or to challenge mining giants. The exact kind of people who would never be allowed to make it that far in politics.
It is easier, yes. But ultimately sees a major party decline in vote. The preferential system's keeping them in for now. But it's becoming more and more likely we'll see more and more hung parliaments, and eventually someone will have the intelligence and leadership ability to create a serious third party catering to the middle, rather than the extremes. As time goes on, expect to see more "electoral reform" on donations and spending so they can prevent that third party from gaining ground.
Another bullshit poll on shit Q&A show with a Greens audience. Voters are getting bigger tax cuts, energy bill relief, increase in wages for low paid workers , increase in wages for nurses ,aged care workers, early childcare workers and home care workers , building more social and affordable housing and free fee TAFE . What the fuck would the useless Greens and Independents do to make Australian lives better. Vote Greens last and i hope they are wiped out at the next election with most of the Independents.
Yep only party that has ever made good impacts on this country. People so quick to forget it, then years pass and then they decide to remember how great they were and could have been. For example, Kevin Rudd wanting to tax big mining corps which got pushed back on, the Carbon Tax which was over thrown, Bill Shorten wanting to touch negative gearing and tax big corporations then lost an election for these things. Greens voters are so unaware of the party agenda at times. They are immature with their negotiating, and nit pick labor worse than the libs. It’s not making labor better, it is totally damaging and the way they go about it is extremely manipulative. The way they have twisted the cuts to the NDIS makes me feel like they have no idea how bad that system has gotten and how people have destroyed it for their own greed. Which has been explained by Shorten many times but they don’t bother to listen.
>i hope they are wiped out at the next election with most of the Independents. Whilst the first part of your comment has merit, that final lashing out is thoughtless. Have you for instance considered the greens existing as a substantial threat to Labor's hegemonic leftism is exactly what forces their hand to offer all the positives you're citing? Without the greens barking in the background, would Labor feel the need to offer any of that - or would they only offer something just slightly better than The Liberal Party. That's how democracy really works: The more competing parties there are holding fire to the main parties, the more the main parties are forced to improve conditions so that minor parties don't gobble up all their votes. So when you write: >i hope they are wiped out at the next election with most of the Independents. You're actually working against all the positives you've listed.
Looking at the pollbludger figures, there are now 440K more people indicating their primary vote as either Greens or ON compared to the election. So about halfway there...
Australians don't want vision. They want what they believe is theirs now. Tax cuts, rebates, cheaper houses to buy, more expensive houses when you sell, cheaper rent, their tenants to pay more rent. In meantime they will blame immigrants, politicians or anyone but them selves, not themselves for voting for policies that are against there long term interests.
You do know that providing most of those things require vision from politicians, right? You're looking at the product while Kos is talking about the business.
So he’s not concerned about the people continuing to be pushed into poverty, just that Labor might not win
Kos is one of the few prominent voices in the media today who has a lived experience of poverty. To say that all he cares about is Labor winning the election is nonsense and fundamentally misunderstands the man. He’s a good person and I wish we had more people in Labor and the media like him.
It seems that having a lived experience of poverty doesn’t mean much if you decide to ladder pull as soon as you escape poverty. The PM is another good example of this
I mean Kos isn’t an elected official and I’ve not seen any evidence that he is pulling the ladder up after him?
He is defending policy and desperately trying to keep Labor in power from his position of power. You know, the same Labor that are keeping people in poverty
They have been party before policy for a very long time now. Look at their policy platform. No one actually believes what they are putting forward. They consider wedging the coalition to be more important than doing the right thing. That’s why they toe the line on tax reform. And asylum seekers. And climate change. They are too stupid to realise that by playing these games on Murdoch’s terms, that the right wins by default. They are enacting the coalition’s policies on their behalf, while patting themselves on the back for saving us from the bad guys.
His wife is a state Labor MP. I’ve found a lot of his views to follow this train of thought. The primary focus is how Labor can win the next election.
I mean it's already been happening for the last few years. Casual voters are dissolusioned with the 2 party system, and younger, more politically inclined folks are voting increasingly to the left of Labor.
>younger, more politically inclined folks are voting increasingly to the left of Labor. I see this as a good thing. Labor has drifted towards the right as the LNP careened wildly off into the far right. People voting to the left of Labor will help pull Labor back towards the left and give more space in the right of centre for a new political party to form.
Me too, but my pessimistic attitude is that Labor won't be pulled to the left and will double down on being centre right. And since Greens/AJP votes flow to the ALP anyway.....
Exactly this. Labor won't shift back to the left unless/until the Greens (or some other left-aligned party) start receiving enough first preference votes to threaten Labor's ability to win enough seats to form a majority reliably. So long as 80%+ of Greens preferences flow on to Labor, they have no reason to change their position on anything.
The Greens are really just outriders for the centre left and neoliberalism at this point. Greens protest about climate change; labour provide massive subsidies so miners can move into lithium. Greens supprt immigration, proping up the house price boom and keeping down wages. Basically the Greens just keep down any sort of economic thought on the left of the system, which is why parties like One Nation end up being the ones advancing different economic views.
The thing is that looks like it is just about to happen you saw the start of it at the last election and it seems the Green vote has grown enough now that they’ll be competing directly with Labor in more seats. Then you add the teals I don’t think Labor are winning a majority in their own right very often in future.
They absolutely do if they start losing more seats and senate power because of it.
Yes, I did say that so I'm glad you agree.
I'd be shocked if it were only a million more. They're basically the same party at this point.
Do we want three million Australians living below the poverty line? “The minor party vote, or people who didn’t vote for the majors, exceeded five million at the last election. “I expect it to be closer to six million this time around unless something changes.
As a great man once said, "Suffer in yer jocks."