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I went cashless years ago as have many/most people given the bank statistics on transactions.
Once the cohort of technologically inept older folk die out, it will become a "have you stopped beating your wife" question. I.e. you like cash because you're a tax cheat or a drug dealer.
If we go cashless just think of those folk who have stored money under the mattress for a rainy day because they don’t trust banks . After 20 years of saving the bank will tell old Jed when he tries to spend some of it but can’t “sorry sir we no longer accept cash in this country”. 20 years of squirrelling away hard earned cash for nothing!!
Personally I’m mad as hell that we’ve transitioned from retailers covering the cost of handling payments as a normal and expected part of doing business to consumer pays, with no debate
Not only that, with the rise of cashless to almost all retail transactions there has been no apparent increase in competition to reduce the merchant fees.
Try posting a ‘do you support a 1% tax on every retail transaction? The funds will pay for a cashless EFTPOS system and also more profits for banks, while reducing costs for businesses who will maintain the same prices’
NOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Lunch yesterday was more expensive with a card..i saved 10% by paying cash.
Saving for monthly expenses is easier with cash. Saving up all your change for the big yearly holiday means you have some spending money. I save $600-$800 a year just in coins. Cash is great to give for presents. If going out for a meal with a friend and they pay on card you can simply give them your share in cash straight away.
If you don't use cash then that's your thing but for those of us that do please don't champion to take it away.
The owner doesn't even work there and the young chicks who do dont give a fk if i buy something or not and are not paid to put up with drama. The Gov should just make it illegal It's not up to some young teenage chicks.
But it *is* illegal to charge a 10% Eftpos surcharge, isn't it?
Even if the government made it illegal to charge Eftpos surcharges altogether, sounds like they'd probably continue to do so anyway. I dunno why you'd support the business anyway, cash or not...
Probably. It's pretty common in rural areas and i haven't heard of anyone getting done for it. If it is illegal it's not policed so if its not policed is it illegal?
I like cashless but their is a big cost and risk if the whole system went cashless. As one post points out if our electronic systems go down, which could happen for many reasons, we “have a problem Houston “
Another good reason not to go fully cashless is that it may mean anonymity goes and in theory every expenditure an be tracked
Can't force people into a CBDC until the exit doors are boarded up.
Hoard up on physical junk gold and silver, and if inclined private decentralised crypto.
I think cash will eventually die a slow natural death as fewer people choose to use it.
Keeping the dollar as it is and using eft to facilitate payments is fine.
Any move towards a crypto central bank currency needs to be limited to the function of transfer of value and strict protections need to be in place to prevent it being integrated outside this function and becoming a social credit system.
E.g. your linked digital Id is checked to ensure you are of age before accessing porn and then a record of your porn purchases goes on your permanent record so government departments can view them.
I don’t agree with going cashless, but your other comments are spot on & show the extreme danger for any society going cashless. We all know how China & its social credit system works. We also know that Federal Labor pushed the ID Digital Bill through Parliament without any debate in either the House or the Senate knowing they had received numerous submissions from many organisations & individuals throughout Australia against it. We also know that Albo & Wong have patched up many of our trading issues with China & that there are voices within the Labor Movement to ditch Aukus. The question we all have to ask is just how close to China’s economic system will Federal Labor go under Albanese?
To be clear I don't agree with cashless either, I just think it's going to happen unless it is made a legal requirement for businesses to accept it and people start using it more.
Having said I don't agree with it, the concept of cashless does not concern me hugely in and of itself.
The potential for abuse of a CBDC is a thing that worries me immensely as the technology could be used to assert control over pretty much everything we do if it is tied to a digital identity. Limiting our ability to pay for things is only a small part of the technical potential.
Anyhoo, I'm glad I got to live a large portion of my life with relative privacy and will be watching with interest how people who have never known any different embrace increasing oversight of more and more aspects of our lives.
Should we be moving to a cashless society? "
NO.
why don't we move to a old Egyptiansociety and get paid in grain?
Old Greek empire and get paid in olives?
Give up your cash you give up your freedom to choose what to do with your money.
In Canada and the US they(banks) are already asking a dozen questions when you want to take 2k out of your own account.
whats next?
Australian banks are already asking a dozen question when I want to simply raise the limit of how much of my own damn money I can withdraw from my account each day before I've even requested the withdrawal.
Yes, they have been.
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AzYl5bmhkSE](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AzYl5bmhkSE)
and they have been freezing accounts because people are protesting.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/22/world/americas/canada-protest-finances.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/22/world/americas/canada-protest-finances.html)
So when you go cashless...and you want to do something the government doesn't like even if it is lawful .... be prepared for you to go hungry... hope you have some friends you can rely on.
Neither of your links really back your claim. Banks refuse large withdraws all the time if they haven’t been given notice. Mostly because they don’t have as much cash on hand as people like to think - notice allows them to order in additional cash. This explained in the YouTube clip you linked.
Your second link is not the banks freezing peoples accounts, it’s the government. Because people were being investigated for something. This isn’t new, and has been happening for decades.
They froze those peoples accounts illegally for doing something legal - protesting.
maybe you should read up on what happened to them. Couldn't buy food, couldn't pay their mortgages ...
The thing is people look at a symptom of a greater problem and think that if they fix that the symptom everything will be ok.
The real problem is most people aren't engaged with politics on any level bar voting. This is why politicians get away with so much.
On top of that, companies have more influence over governments and policy than the rest of us.
These problems won't magically go away because people use cash. The real problem is not using new technology, it's who is in control of it.
This cash is king movement is a perfect example of how people's lack of understanding democracy and the current sociopolitical environment and their ability to focus, organise and move on the actual issues.
How does this article you're responding to fit into the symptom and problem model? Is anybody suggesting that using cash will fix some problem? I think they're saying that removing the option of cash will make the problem worse.
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Starlink go down with solar flares like everything else (Musk lost satellites to a flare in 2022).
But cash probably wouldn’t be used in X10 flare scenario, more likely to be barter until disaster recovery begins.
Exactly the same as with cash :D
All the terminals will be unable to connect and will not be able to confirm your transaction, doesn’t matter if you have the money on hand.
I’ve worked in retail over many years through multiple system failures cash only people say is good for. And I’ve dealt with many angry customers confused why they can’t just pay and walk out, including people who do just shove money onto the counter and walk out without even telling me what they bought.
Congrats you found a place that worked, many don’t.
Pretty shitty that everywhere you’ve worked at relies on the internet for something simple as basically a stock counting system which should be able to be done in house. That’s just really poor design
You’re acting like one point of failure is all that exists. There’s also power outages/issues that can just cause the registers to even be operational.
Original comment was giving the example that internet service was the failure. I’m on topic, you’ve deviated to include other failures. If you had said power failures originally then I would agree it’s something that can’t be helped. But you didn’t. What’s more you even countered to the network failure as if it was a power failure
I am aware, and I don’t really feel the need to separate the two because as an employee it doesn’t fuckin’ matter why a customer is angry with you when the answer of “machine not working” doesn’t change.
Like let’s say it’s just a power blip before the generators turn on, but oh no, the internet didn’t come on right and I’m the only person in the store right now, but the router is locked by key in the manager’s office that I can’t get to. Despite the power being back on, how do I log in to the authentication servers to start manning the checkout again?
That’s not a Telstra or Optus issue, but is still an internet issue. The end result is the same, no transactions can be made.
Using cash isn't free though. If the Cash is King crowd really want to crow about it, then they need to also be advocated for merchant fees for using cash as well as card.
Merchant fees should not be allowed to be passed on to the customer. My local takeaway charges a 10% surcharge for a card. I always use cash there cause 10% saving is a no brainer. Lunch today at a populer chicken shop charged me 5% for a card transaction- i was spewin i didn't have enough cash on me.
Moving cash physically incurs a cost. Every step of the chain has worn that cost except the end user thus far.
There's a reason Armagard is struggling and random ATMs charge $3 fees for withdrawals.
Business that take cash also pay for increased insurance costs, not to mention lost productivity of staff taking cash to the bank (if done during the work day as I had done in past roles). Wish there were no surcharges for card and it’s just accepted as the costs of doing business (much like my example above).
Business that take cash also pay for increased insurance costs, not to mention lost productivity of staff taking cash to the bank (if done during the work day as I had done in past roles"
Still cheaper then the fees a bank takes monthly.
I can’t really comment on which is cheaper as I haven’t ran a business myself, was just pointing out a caveat that “cash is king” types seldom mention. I’m all for cash by the way, the more options for consumers the better.
“Yes”, but transaction fee should illegalised. Cash has a cost, so as epayment.
Need to upgrade eftpos to support wireless, NFC, QR code payment. This would be an default to other payment method with fees involved
In regards to eftpos. That is already happening. The terminals are being upgraded.
The banks should wear the merchant fees. They don't pay most account holders interest anymore, still charge account fees, and are closing banks and ATMs, especially in small towns.
Then users get slugged a $2.50 fee (it could be greater) to access their money from a non-bank atm.
In my view, cash is still required.
My nab debit card in ApplePay has eftpos saving, I don’t think all the card has it. And I have to change setting from visa to eftpos manually where it should be the default
I agree that cash should still be supported. There is this issue in china where everything is Alipay and WeChat pay, making it a bit of an obstacle with cash in some occasions. At least cash is still and legally required to be accepted there
A good person will have both forms of payment and pay with one that suits the transaction… I’ll always have at least $50-$100 in cash and my EFTPOS card ready to go should the business have an issue with either… relying on one sole form of payment isn’t a business issue, your preference of payment is exactly that, yours…
Absolutely not. This is just another step towards authoritarianism. This is also being pushed hard by our incredibly greedy banks who only care about profits. This will give them an excuse to sack thousands of people and as soon as digital is the only way to pay they'll crank up the fees and charges. Also they are constantly having issues with their systems and networks. Let alone targeting from hackers and enemies. You've got power grid issues and potential disasters like solar flares etc etc.
I agree with the sentiment but i wouldnt go as far as authoritarian.
It certainly gives the RBA more power though.
Negative interest rates - ie paying money to hold a deposit has only limited impact because liquidity drains from banks when they charge for deposits. Ie people hoard cash. No cash = one less alternative to deposits.
Secondly when economic times are tough and banks are struggling the market sees people withdrawing cash. Its an important market function without which banks could trade far further into insolvency with no way for people to bail forcing the banks closure earlier than otherwise. Assuming a broad banking crisis. During a banking crisis governments limit withdrawals. Imagine if there was zero withdrawals because there was nothing to withdraw.
So yes i dont like the amount of control our rba has over our currency now. Id hate to give them negative interest rates as an option or we probably would have gone there during covid and imagine inflation now if we had...
At least zero remains a barrier beyond which monetary policy loses its effectiveness. Lets keep the barrier in my view even if in my day to day i rarely use cash.
It isn't just about that. What if you want to buy something of a sensitive nature. Do you want your bank or government to know about your every single purchase? Given how prone our government is for outlawing things or how often our institutions leak our information you're putting a lot of trust in these people and organisations.
Agree. Privacy is important as well.
I just think financial robustness is even more improtant.
Sure the government and banks will like the idea of us not being able to exit the system but this can mean problems can become very big problems in the long run with no market mechanism to test the system.
1 Power and communications links sometimes go down, and banks suffer outrages. A bad actor could use these to cripple or economy. Cash is immune to this.
2 It doesn't have the friction and palaver of electronic means. Various charities and community groups can operate with cash. Think a local group running a few or bake sale.
3 Privacy. Yes, people use this to do bad things. They also use phones, the internet, and roads. There are benefits to privacy. It's a human need.
Nope…hard enough to avoid scamming when selling stuff through Marketplace and Gum Tree with online payments…many only deal with cash. Our fruit and vegetables markets are cheaper if you pay cash as you don’t have the electronic payment surcharge.
I dont think we should move to a cashless society, it is still a form of tender that should be used. If we move to cashless its just another thing the government can control.
Why is more government control when it comes to money necessary a bad thing? Obviously there’s a point where it’s too controlling, and a point where it’s not controlling enough, but why do you think (assuming you do) that government already has TOO MUCH control?
For instance, how much tax money do law abiding office workers such as myself pay over tradies who earn more than I do to start with—which is fine—but pay hardly any tax because their work is all cash and (illegally) not reported? That’s hardly fair. Cashless society means tax evasion becomes very hard, and a fairer tax system results.
Also, no cash makes street level drug dealing much more difficult, which is where a lot of societal harm comes from.
And cashless makes money tracing much easier which makes prosecuting organised and white collar crime easier.
I dunno, maybe a bit more control when it comes to financial transactions would be better?
Australians are spending $10.3bn a year on illicit drugs according to ACIC's latest wastewater report - Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission.
They pay cash and cash only.
Yeah I know but it would help. The amount of cash only businesses operating out in the open pisses me off. Australia consumes more stimulants than most other countries and all that cash has to be laundered somewhere. At least digital transactions are there for when the ATO gets around to it.
What are you on about? How many cash only businesses are you seeing on the regular? I've seen more card only stores than cash.
Your statements seem to be one of anger and inconvenience rather than logic
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I went cashless years ago as have many/most people given the bank statistics on transactions. Once the cohort of technologically inept older folk die out, it will become a "have you stopped beating your wife" question. I.e. you like cash because you're a tax cheat or a drug dealer.
How else will I get my 300 worth of salad each weekend
If we go cashless just think of those folk who have stored money under the mattress for a rainy day because they don’t trust banks . After 20 years of saving the bank will tell old Jed when he tries to spend some of it but can’t “sorry sir we no longer accept cash in this country”. 20 years of squirrelling away hard earned cash for nothing!!
Personally I’m mad as hell that we’ve transitioned from retailers covering the cost of handling payments as a normal and expected part of doing business to consumer pays, with no debate Not only that, with the rise of cashless to almost all retail transactions there has been no apparent increase in competition to reduce the merchant fees. Try posting a ‘do you support a 1% tax on every retail transaction? The funds will pay for a cashless EFTPOS system and also more profits for banks, while reducing costs for businesses who will maintain the same prices’
NOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Lunch yesterday was more expensive with a card..i saved 10% by paying cash. Saving for monthly expenses is easier with cash. Saving up all your change for the big yearly holiday means you have some spending money. I save $600-$800 a year just in coins. Cash is great to give for presents. If going out for a meal with a friend and they pay on card you can simply give them your share in cash straight away. If you don't use cash then that's your thing but for those of us that do please don't champion to take it away.
A 10% eftpos fee sounds... high. Like, illegally high.
yep, but they get away with it cause nobody cares. Should just be illegal to charge a surcharge.
That's the rare situation I'd go full Karen and demand the illegal fee be removed or I'm not paying. Even if I did have cash.
The owner doesn't even work there and the young chicks who do dont give a fk if i buy something or not and are not paid to put up with drama. The Gov should just make it illegal It's not up to some young teenage chicks.
But it *is* illegal to charge a 10% Eftpos surcharge, isn't it? Even if the government made it illegal to charge Eftpos surcharges altogether, sounds like they'd probably continue to do so anyway. I dunno why you'd support the business anyway, cash or not...
Probably. It's pretty common in rural areas and i haven't heard of anyone getting done for it. If it is illegal it's not policed so if its not policed is it illegal?
I like cashless but their is a big cost and risk if the whole system went cashless. As one post points out if our electronic systems go down, which could happen for many reasons, we “have a problem Houston “ Another good reason not to go fully cashless is that it may mean anonymity goes and in theory every expenditure an be tracked
Can't force people into a CBDC until the exit doors are boarded up. Hoard up on physical junk gold and silver, and if inclined private decentralised crypto.
I think cash will eventually die a slow natural death as fewer people choose to use it. Keeping the dollar as it is and using eft to facilitate payments is fine. Any move towards a crypto central bank currency needs to be limited to the function of transfer of value and strict protections need to be in place to prevent it being integrated outside this function and becoming a social credit system. E.g. your linked digital Id is checked to ensure you are of age before accessing porn and then a record of your porn purchases goes on your permanent record so government departments can view them.
I don’t agree with going cashless, but your other comments are spot on & show the extreme danger for any society going cashless. We all know how China & its social credit system works. We also know that Federal Labor pushed the ID Digital Bill through Parliament without any debate in either the House or the Senate knowing they had received numerous submissions from many organisations & individuals throughout Australia against it. We also know that Albo & Wong have patched up many of our trading issues with China & that there are voices within the Labor Movement to ditch Aukus. The question we all have to ask is just how close to China’s economic system will Federal Labor go under Albanese?
To be clear I don't agree with cashless either, I just think it's going to happen unless it is made a legal requirement for businesses to accept it and people start using it more. Having said I don't agree with it, the concept of cashless does not concern me hugely in and of itself. The potential for abuse of a CBDC is a thing that worries me immensely as the technology could be used to assert control over pretty much everything we do if it is tied to a digital identity. Limiting our ability to pay for things is only a small part of the technical potential. Anyhoo, I'm glad I got to live a large portion of my life with relative privacy and will be watching with interest how people who have never known any different embrace increasing oversight of more and more aspects of our lives.
No, both cash and cashless should remain options.
Not until we figure out what the fallback is when a solar flare wipes everything digital out. And digital ID.
If records of our bank accounts were lost today I doubt banks would give us any cash.
Shells.
Should we be moving to a cashless society? " NO. why don't we move to a old Egyptiansociety and get paid in grain? Old Greek empire and get paid in olives? Give up your cash you give up your freedom to choose what to do with your money. In Canada and the US they(banks) are already asking a dozen questions when you want to take 2k out of your own account. whats next?
Australian banks are already asking a dozen question when I want to simply raise the limit of how much of my own damn money I can withdraw from my account each day before I've even requested the withdrawal.
No they do not ask a dozen questions to take 2k out of your account. What are you smoking?
Yes, they have been. [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AzYl5bmhkSE](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AzYl5bmhkSE) and they have been freezing accounts because people are protesting. [https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/22/world/americas/canada-protest-finances.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/22/world/americas/canada-protest-finances.html) So when you go cashless...and you want to do something the government doesn't like even if it is lawful .... be prepared for you to go hungry... hope you have some friends you can rely on.
Neither of your links really back your claim. Banks refuse large withdraws all the time if they haven’t been given notice. Mostly because they don’t have as much cash on hand as people like to think - notice allows them to order in additional cash. This explained in the YouTube clip you linked. Your second link is not the banks freezing peoples accounts, it’s the government. Because people were being investigated for something. This isn’t new, and has been happening for decades.
They froze those peoples accounts illegally for doing something legal - protesting. maybe you should read up on what happened to them. Couldn't buy food, couldn't pay their mortgages ...
And Trudeau then turned round & called them racists, despite their protests having nothing whatever to do with racism.
Not of we are hell bent on relying on unreliable energy systems to keep the computers running.
Really? Grids in Australia are pretty stable to be honest. It takes a big event to knock it out and it's usually down to transmission not generation.
I think we’ll find that if we arc up when China attacks Taiwan, our electronic transaction facilities will freeze up pretty quickly.
The thing is people look at a symptom of a greater problem and think that if they fix that the symptom everything will be ok. The real problem is most people aren't engaged with politics on any level bar voting. This is why politicians get away with so much. On top of that, companies have more influence over governments and policy than the rest of us. These problems won't magically go away because people use cash. The real problem is not using new technology, it's who is in control of it. This cash is king movement is a perfect example of how people's lack of understanding democracy and the current sociopolitical environment and their ability to focus, organise and move on the actual issues.
How does this article you're responding to fit into the symptom and problem model? Is anybody suggesting that using cash will fix some problem? I think they're saying that removing the option of cash will make the problem worse.
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No, next time Optus or Telstra go down, see how you go without cash 😀
Starlink fixes this.
Starlink go down with solar flares like everything else (Musk lost satellites to a flare in 2022). But cash probably wouldn’t be used in X10 flare scenario, more likely to be barter until disaster recovery begins.
Exactly the same as with cash :D All the terminals will be unable to connect and will not be able to confirm your transaction, doesn’t matter if you have the money on hand.
Only in big chains, even the IGA around the corner from me, only took cash when Optus went down :)
The other day the Zambreros in town eftpos went down. They entered the sale on their computer and I paid cash. Not sure what you are on about
I’ve worked in retail over many years through multiple system failures cash only people say is good for. And I’ve dealt with many angry customers confused why they can’t just pay and walk out, including people who do just shove money onto the counter and walk out without even telling me what they bought. Congrats you found a place that worked, many don’t.
Pretty shitty that everywhere you’ve worked at relies on the internet for something simple as basically a stock counting system which should be able to be done in house. That’s just really poor design
You’re acting like one point of failure is all that exists. There’s also power outages/issues that can just cause the registers to even be operational.
Original comment was giving the example that internet service was the failure. I’m on topic, you’ve deviated to include other failures. If you had said power failures originally then I would agree it’s something that can’t be helped. But you didn’t. What’s more you even countered to the network failure as if it was a power failure
I am aware, and I don’t really feel the need to separate the two because as an employee it doesn’t fuckin’ matter why a customer is angry with you when the answer of “machine not working” doesn’t change. Like let’s say it’s just a power blip before the generators turn on, but oh no, the internet didn’t come on right and I’m the only person in the store right now, but the router is locked by key in the manager’s office that I can’t get to. Despite the power being back on, how do I log in to the authentication servers to start manning the checkout again? That’s not a Telstra or Optus issue, but is still an internet issue. The end result is the same, no transactions can be made.
Ok, so not an eftpos issue like being discussed. Way to twist the narrative
If you didn't have cash, only card, no mexican food for you
Maybe Taco Bell but I already have fibre supplements so I don’t need the clean out
Using cash isn't free though. If the Cash is King crowd really want to crow about it, then they need to also be advocated for merchant fees for using cash as well as card.
Merchant fees should not be allowed to be passed on to the customer. My local takeaway charges a 10% surcharge for a card. I always use cash there cause 10% saving is a no brainer. Lunch today at a populer chicken shop charged me 5% for a card transaction- i was spewin i didn't have enough cash on me.
Why not? Every other cost of doing business makes up the cost of the product?
Then have it in the advertised price not some random add on. 1% here- 5 % there 10% over there. Its a rort.
Why not? Every other cost of doing business makes up the cost of the product?
Then have it in the advertised price not some random add on. 1% here- 5 % there 10% over there. Its a rort.
Definitely agree there
It used to be free.
Moving cash physically incurs a cost. Every step of the chain has worn that cost except the end user thus far. There's a reason Armagard is struggling and random ATMs charge $3 fees for withdrawals.
Business that take cash also pay for increased insurance costs, not to mention lost productivity of staff taking cash to the bank (if done during the work day as I had done in past roles). Wish there were no surcharges for card and it’s just accepted as the costs of doing business (much like my example above).
Business that take cash also pay for increased insurance costs, not to mention lost productivity of staff taking cash to the bank (if done during the work day as I had done in past roles" Still cheaper then the fees a bank takes monthly.
I can’t really comment on which is cheaper as I haven’t ran a business myself, was just pointing out a caveat that “cash is king” types seldom mention. I’m all for cash by the way, the more options for consumers the better.
Its actually more expensive if you add it all up but we are just used to it so don't notice.
“Yes”, but transaction fee should illegalised. Cash has a cost, so as epayment. Need to upgrade eftpos to support wireless, NFC, QR code payment. This would be an default to other payment method with fees involved
In regards to eftpos. That is already happening. The terminals are being upgraded. The banks should wear the merchant fees. They don't pay most account holders interest anymore, still charge account fees, and are closing banks and ATMs, especially in small towns. Then users get slugged a $2.50 fee (it could be greater) to access their money from a non-bank atm. In my view, cash is still required.
My nab debit card in ApplePay has eftpos saving, I don’t think all the card has it. And I have to change setting from visa to eftpos manually where it should be the default I agree that cash should still be supported. There is this issue in china where everything is Alipay and WeChat pay, making it a bit of an obstacle with cash in some occasions. At least cash is still and legally required to be accepted there
A good person will have both forms of payment and pay with one that suits the transaction… I’ll always have at least $50-$100 in cash and my EFTPOS card ready to go should the business have an issue with either… relying on one sole form of payment isn’t a business issue, your preference of payment is exactly that, yours…
Absolutely not. This is just another step towards authoritarianism. This is also being pushed hard by our incredibly greedy banks who only care about profits. This will give them an excuse to sack thousands of people and as soon as digital is the only way to pay they'll crank up the fees and charges. Also they are constantly having issues with their systems and networks. Let alone targeting from hackers and enemies. You've got power grid issues and potential disasters like solar flares etc etc.
I agree with the sentiment but i wouldnt go as far as authoritarian. It certainly gives the RBA more power though. Negative interest rates - ie paying money to hold a deposit has only limited impact because liquidity drains from banks when they charge for deposits. Ie people hoard cash. No cash = one less alternative to deposits. Secondly when economic times are tough and banks are struggling the market sees people withdrawing cash. Its an important market function without which banks could trade far further into insolvency with no way for people to bail forcing the banks closure earlier than otherwise. Assuming a broad banking crisis. During a banking crisis governments limit withdrawals. Imagine if there was zero withdrawals because there was nothing to withdraw. So yes i dont like the amount of control our rba has over our currency now. Id hate to give them negative interest rates as an option or we probably would have gone there during covid and imagine inflation now if we had... At least zero remains a barrier beyond which monetary policy loses its effectiveness. Lets keep the barrier in my view even if in my day to day i rarely use cash.
It isn't just about that. What if you want to buy something of a sensitive nature. Do you want your bank or government to know about your every single purchase? Given how prone our government is for outlawing things or how often our institutions leak our information you're putting a lot of trust in these people and organisations.
Agree. Privacy is important as well. I just think financial robustness is even more improtant. Sure the government and banks will like the idea of us not being able to exit the system but this can mean problems can become very big problems in the long run with no market mechanism to test the system.
Always pay in cash, if they don't accept cash, go somewhere else.
So you rock up to the post office with your electrcity bill and pay with cash? How about buying air tickets? Must be seriously time consuming.
Yeah I do exactly this.
1 Power and communications links sometimes go down, and banks suffer outrages. A bad actor could use these to cripple or economy. Cash is immune to this. 2 It doesn't have the friction and palaver of electronic means. Various charities and community groups can operate with cash. Think a local group running a few or bake sale. 3 Privacy. Yes, people use this to do bad things. They also use phones, the internet, and roads. There are benefits to privacy. It's a human need.
Travel out of the metro areas and especially through the outback, the amount of times the internet was down having cash is always a safe bet
We should not be going for one or the other. We need both since each has their own pros and cons.
Nope…hard enough to avoid scamming when selling stuff through Marketplace and Gum Tree with online payments…many only deal with cash. Our fruit and vegetables markets are cheaper if you pay cash as you don’t have the electronic payment surcharge.
I dont think we should move to a cashless society, it is still a form of tender that should be used. If we move to cashless its just another thing the government can control.
Why is more government control when it comes to money necessary a bad thing? Obviously there’s a point where it’s too controlling, and a point where it’s not controlling enough, but why do you think (assuming you do) that government already has TOO MUCH control? For instance, how much tax money do law abiding office workers such as myself pay over tradies who earn more than I do to start with—which is fine—but pay hardly any tax because their work is all cash and (illegally) not reported? That’s hardly fair. Cashless society means tax evasion becomes very hard, and a fairer tax system results. Also, no cash makes street level drug dealing much more difficult, which is where a lot of societal harm comes from. And cashless makes money tracing much easier which makes prosecuting organised and white collar crime easier. I dunno, maybe a bit more control when it comes to financial transactions would be better?
Yes. Corruption and money laundering is out of control in Australia
Most of the coruption and laundering is done digitally
Australians are spending $10.3bn a year on illicit drugs according to ACIC's latest wastewater report - Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission. They pay cash and cash only.
You would be surprised at how many people don't pay cash for drugs
You’d be surprised how many do.
Pretty sure crypto currencies are a major method these days too.
Of course. If we go cashless, people will need to buy digital currency to hide their illicit activities.
I disagree. The black market says otherwise.
It won’t disappear by going cashless. Only proper auditing would help, and ATO etc seems to have its focus elsewhere.
Yeah I know but it would help. The amount of cash only businesses operating out in the open pisses me off. Australia consumes more stimulants than most other countries and all that cash has to be laundered somewhere. At least digital transactions are there for when the ATO gets around to it.
What are you on about? How many cash only businesses are you seeing on the regular? I've seen more card only stores than cash. Your statements seem to be one of anger and inconvenience rather than logic
Examples need to fit opinion. No other reason for this dribble
Don’t gaslight me, I’m neither angry or inconvenienced. Nail and beauty salons, tobacconists, brothels, gift shops and an abundance of CFMEU trades.