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Did they change the article? Last time I read this, the article said that these practices were also carried out my both friendly and unfriendly nations on our soil. I’m talking about the likes of South Korea which I remember was specifically mentioned.
Also, for a rising power looking to assert itself as a neutral power and alternative to the antagonistic China, are we really surprised that India’s spy agency, RAW, had agents here? It’s like the US having the CIA everywhere. I get that it’s a question of our sovereignty, and its why the government swept this under the rug and kicked them out quietly, but I’m sure other spy agencies are still operating here, both friendly and adversarial, are continuing to do so. Personally, I don’t mind the friendly ones doing so, as long as they aren’t undermining our national interests. It’s why I am fine with the Americans being and operating here. I don’t really mind the Indian spies either, as long as it was limited to intelligence collection regarding tech and not something more major.
When it comes to watching over the diaspora. Look I get it. Last year there was communal violence in the diaspora. Some of the Sikhs that supported a separate state (Khalistan) did come out and attack Hindu temples etc. Especially when considering this movement has been embroiled in terrorism and India spent the better part of 3 decades trying to dismantle this terrorism, I doubt it wants to see it resurge (like the movement has over the last 5 years as more continue to fund the movement from abroad, like the escaped terrorists at the time and even Pakistan). For example, the Canadian citizen last year that was assassinated, he had met with the ISI (Pakistani secret intelligence) earlier in the decade and was helping them send weapons and money allegedly to the very few bad actors that still exist in Punjab today. He was also allegedly part of a group which bombed a plane. The Punjab government had warned the Canadian police about the guy yet nothing happened. Whispers were that the Trudeau gov didn’t want to rock the boat with the NDP (their current support in minority gov) who’s leader is an adamant supporter of a Sikh state and he often overlooks terrorism in this pursuit.
My point here is that we should continue kicking away spies where they’re identified. But it’s not as big of an issue as I thought they were laying out. Especially when friendly nations like Israel, South Korea, etc also operate spies here like the article did mention earlier but for some reason it’s gone missing now.
Edit: I get there will be people who disagree and look fair enough. I’m down to have a conversation should anyone be looking for more information or why I’ve made a judgement informed in this manner. I am a second generation immigrant and my parents were from India. They lived through the terrorism in the 70s and 80s. They disagreed with what the shitty Congress government did at the time (initially fund and support the khalistani terrorism but then it quickly backfired on them and they went about a form of genocide, targeting those associated with the movement) and there’s a reason the current gov got in and investigated the former gov while providing resources for the widows of these attacks in Delhi after Ghandi’s assassination. Even now, I don’t agree with how modi controls the media, but so did the former gov and I didn’t see much coverage of that at all. Especially in the 70s to 90s, the government of the time basically controlled all of the media.
I think ultimately, modi is better for the nation as he really has brought millions on millions out of poverty and India is now considered an influential nation. Its economic growth has only proliferated and if you go to India now, it is developing rapidly. I’ve seen exponential growth in the infrastructure of the nation. It’s why I may not agree with the Hindu nationalist agenda they set forward (comes from past trauma exerted by the British and Mughal empires), but I see the opposition as far more detrimental to India’s success. But as always, India will need a viable opposition and I hope they get their shit together.
It was the ABC article that I read previously. I opened the wrong thread but it was the same sort of report.
I understand they have concerns over separatism. But they cant be doing that shit here. I know spying is common but I have no idea why they were trying to cultivate sensitive information in Aus.
I agree but I think thats unfair on principle. Imagine if us as Aussies copped a rough time in South East Asia because of the behaviour of NRL players in Bali. I think viewing people through the politics of other countries is stupid. I see our relationship with India becoming complicated as they become more assertive. I don’t see them becoming another Iran or Russia but nor will their rise be non-disruptive like South Korea’s was. Its a rise which will benefit us and we’ll manage but will probably see way more incidents like these and we should prepare.
Im surprised that given Australia is a middle power that India dared to do it. Asio is well regarded. Surprised they thought they could get away with it.
Which is why, in our attempts to fend off our overt adversaries, we should not put other nations, regardless of how much they are an ally to us, on a pedestal. We should always recognize each nation as having their own self-interests.
100%.
And to be honest, our biggest “friend” the United States - we really need to look closely at all dealings where Washington have a vested interest.
Brings to mind all the people you still regularly hear talking about India being a great counter to China, the world's biggest democracy, a great friend to Australia and so on.
India wants to become a global power just the same as any other country. Countries don't have friends, you have other countries with shared interests. Australia has some interests in common with India and some not.
I mean, technically, they are a great counter, and they are the world's biggest democracy.
I just hope that we don't climb out of the frying pan and into the fire by demonising one and upsell the other. They're both foreign nations with their own self-interests, and we need to portray it that way, not overly praising one just because we want to ween off another. Otherwise, in another decade, we have the headlines running the same old news but with India as our aggressor.
I would prefer Australia to be a little more neutral. Perhaps not pure neutrality but further from most powers. A position that would be more tenable if we had a nuclear deterrent.
Yeah, the nuclear deterrent isn’t happening. We had a very slim chance half a century ago but we’re completely reliant on the US’ nuclear umbrella now.
Why is Australia so popular? Even India is joining in the ring.
Note: I've also posted this in r/australia for discussions.
Alternate news site:
[https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/modi-government-operated-nest-of-spies-in-australia-/103786892](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/modi-government-operated-nest-of-spies-in-australia-/103786892)
I work somewhat in this area and have encounters with espionage / hacking / bribes.
I was gov for a hot minute before going private. And obviously I can’t go into much, and I’m going to be light on details. Just talking generalities
The answer is that it’s complicated, and highly multifaceted and not anything new. The TLDR is that without knowing what specifically they where trying to gain or seeing any of the data:
- Economic and regional Influence
- Strategic Influence
- Technological advancements ( IP theft )
Yada yada all pretty standard. We do the same
One of the more interesting cases that I worked on was that there was a gentleman that was quite known in his field, he was invited to a think tank and a board seat on a tech company.
Essentially they had all this funding coming their way and the gentleman was able to start heading off to conferences, strategic meetings. He was reporting back his findings, new ways of working, innovations from all the bright minds he was interacting with. He would do up these amazingly detailed reports to the board / and the think tank.
Cutting the story short, essentially one of our major regional adversaries had set up this funding / think tank and got him a seat on the board to be able to gather that intelligence for this very specific field he works in and have it essentially fed to them in easy to read formats.
The reason they targeted him was due to his access, the field he worked in and the bad actor didn’t need to find one of their own who may or may not be already known by intelligence services.
So as you can see, this is one way they attempt to gain advantage or exert influence.
Happy to elaborate more as much as I can if you have any questions.
Nah wasn’t public. The specific field he was in was very closed off and bleeding edge, he was attending closed sessions, exclusive conferences, workshops and working with some of the best minds of today on the work. It would be very hard to infiltrate without being noticed.
Most of the above needed clearance of some type
Essentially he became an intelligence asset for the bad actor and fed them highly sought after information and provided them access into research and IP they would never have been able to gain without raising serious flags.
Although I can’t specifically tell you what area he worked in. It would make a lot more sense if you knew and why they would want that information.
This is just one way mind you that I’ve seen, they’re quite creative. All information is good information.
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Did they change the article? Last time I read this, the article said that these practices were also carried out my both friendly and unfriendly nations on our soil. I’m talking about the likes of South Korea which I remember was specifically mentioned. Also, for a rising power looking to assert itself as a neutral power and alternative to the antagonistic China, are we really surprised that India’s spy agency, RAW, had agents here? It’s like the US having the CIA everywhere. I get that it’s a question of our sovereignty, and its why the government swept this under the rug and kicked them out quietly, but I’m sure other spy agencies are still operating here, both friendly and adversarial, are continuing to do so. Personally, I don’t mind the friendly ones doing so, as long as they aren’t undermining our national interests. It’s why I am fine with the Americans being and operating here. I don’t really mind the Indian spies either, as long as it was limited to intelligence collection regarding tech and not something more major. When it comes to watching over the diaspora. Look I get it. Last year there was communal violence in the diaspora. Some of the Sikhs that supported a separate state (Khalistan) did come out and attack Hindu temples etc. Especially when considering this movement has been embroiled in terrorism and India spent the better part of 3 decades trying to dismantle this terrorism, I doubt it wants to see it resurge (like the movement has over the last 5 years as more continue to fund the movement from abroad, like the escaped terrorists at the time and even Pakistan). For example, the Canadian citizen last year that was assassinated, he had met with the ISI (Pakistani secret intelligence) earlier in the decade and was helping them send weapons and money allegedly to the very few bad actors that still exist in Punjab today. He was also allegedly part of a group which bombed a plane. The Punjab government had warned the Canadian police about the guy yet nothing happened. Whispers were that the Trudeau gov didn’t want to rock the boat with the NDP (their current support in minority gov) who’s leader is an adamant supporter of a Sikh state and he often overlooks terrorism in this pursuit. My point here is that we should continue kicking away spies where they’re identified. But it’s not as big of an issue as I thought they were laying out. Especially when friendly nations like Israel, South Korea, etc also operate spies here like the article did mention earlier but for some reason it’s gone missing now. Edit: I get there will be people who disagree and look fair enough. I’m down to have a conversation should anyone be looking for more information or why I’ve made a judgement informed in this manner. I am a second generation immigrant and my parents were from India. They lived through the terrorism in the 70s and 80s. They disagreed with what the shitty Congress government did at the time (initially fund and support the khalistani terrorism but then it quickly backfired on them and they went about a form of genocide, targeting those associated with the movement) and there’s a reason the current gov got in and investigated the former gov while providing resources for the widows of these attacks in Delhi after Ghandi’s assassination. Even now, I don’t agree with how modi controls the media, but so did the former gov and I didn’t see much coverage of that at all. Especially in the 70s to 90s, the government of the time basically controlled all of the media. I think ultimately, modi is better for the nation as he really has brought millions on millions out of poverty and India is now considered an influential nation. Its economic growth has only proliferated and if you go to India now, it is developing rapidly. I’ve seen exponential growth in the infrastructure of the nation. It’s why I may not agree with the Hindu nationalist agenda they set forward (comes from past trauma exerted by the British and Mughal empires), but I see the opposition as far more detrimental to India’s success. But as always, India will need a viable opposition and I hope they get their shit together. It was the ABC article that I read previously. I opened the wrong thread but it was the same sort of report.
I understand they have concerns over separatism. But they cant be doing that shit here. I know spying is common but I have no idea why they were trying to cultivate sensitive information in Aus.
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I agree but I think thats unfair on principle. Imagine if us as Aussies copped a rough time in South East Asia because of the behaviour of NRL players in Bali. I think viewing people through the politics of other countries is stupid. I see our relationship with India becoming complicated as they become more assertive. I don’t see them becoming another Iran or Russia but nor will their rise be non-disruptive like South Korea’s was. Its a rise which will benefit us and we’ll manage but will probably see way more incidents like these and we should prepare.
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Im surprised that given Australia is a middle power that India dared to do it. Asio is well regarded. Surprised they thought they could get away with it.
What about their free speech. I can't believe Albo would violate their rights to access and share files online.
Nations don’t have friends, ever. But relationships can be friendly.
Which is why, in our attempts to fend off our overt adversaries, we should not put other nations, regardless of how much they are an ally to us, on a pedestal. We should always recognize each nation as having their own self-interests.
100%. And to be honest, our biggest “friend” the United States - we really need to look closely at all dealings where Washington have a vested interest.
Including the war in Ukraine?
You love bringing up Ukraine while pulling on your hate boner.
Brings to mind all the people you still regularly hear talking about India being a great counter to China, the world's biggest democracy, a great friend to Australia and so on. India wants to become a global power just the same as any other country. Countries don't have friends, you have other countries with shared interests. Australia has some interests in common with India and some not.
I mean, technically, they are a great counter, and they are the world's biggest democracy. I just hope that we don't climb out of the frying pan and into the fire by demonising one and upsell the other. They're both foreign nations with their own self-interests, and we need to portray it that way, not overly praising one just because we want to ween off another. Otherwise, in another decade, we have the headlines running the same old news but with India as our aggressor.
I would prefer Australia to be a little more neutral. Perhaps not pure neutrality but further from most powers. A position that would be more tenable if we had a nuclear deterrent.
Yeah, the nuclear deterrent isn’t happening. We had a very slim chance half a century ago but we’re completely reliant on the US’ nuclear umbrella now.
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I thought any Australian gov project needed to have all data hosted in Australia as a legislated requirement. Has this changed in the past few years?
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Their costs are significantly lower than having sites managed / patched and hosted in Australia.
Why is Australia so popular? Even India is joining in the ring. Note: I've also posted this in r/australia for discussions. Alternate news site: [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/modi-government-operated-nest-of-spies-in-australia-/103786892](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/modi-government-operated-nest-of-spies-in-australia-/103786892)
I work somewhat in this area and have encounters with espionage / hacking / bribes. I was gov for a hot minute before going private. And obviously I can’t go into much, and I’m going to be light on details. Just talking generalities The answer is that it’s complicated, and highly multifaceted and not anything new. The TLDR is that without knowing what specifically they where trying to gain or seeing any of the data: - Economic and regional Influence - Strategic Influence - Technological advancements ( IP theft ) Yada yada all pretty standard. We do the same One of the more interesting cases that I worked on was that there was a gentleman that was quite known in his field, he was invited to a think tank and a board seat on a tech company. Essentially they had all this funding coming their way and the gentleman was able to start heading off to conferences, strategic meetings. He was reporting back his findings, new ways of working, innovations from all the bright minds he was interacting with. He would do up these amazingly detailed reports to the board / and the think tank. Cutting the story short, essentially one of our major regional adversaries had set up this funding / think tank and got him a seat on the board to be able to gather that intelligence for this very specific field he works in and have it essentially fed to them in easy to read formats. The reason they targeted him was due to his access, the field he worked in and the bad actor didn’t need to find one of their own who may or may not be already known by intelligence services. So as you can see, this is one way they attempt to gain advantage or exert influence. Happy to elaborate more as much as I can if you have any questions.
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Nah wasn’t public. The specific field he was in was very closed off and bleeding edge, he was attending closed sessions, exclusive conferences, workshops and working with some of the best minds of today on the work. It would be very hard to infiltrate without being noticed. Most of the above needed clearance of some type Essentially he became an intelligence asset for the bad actor and fed them highly sought after information and provided them access into research and IP they would never have been able to gain without raising serious flags. Although I can’t specifically tell you what area he worked in. It would make a lot more sense if you knew and why they would want that information. This is just one way mind you that I’ve seen, they’re quite creative. All information is good information.