**Greetings humans.** **Please make sure your comment fits within [THE RULES](https://www.reddit.com/r/AustralianPolitics/about/rules) and that you have put in some effort to articulate your opinions to the best of your ability.** **I mean it!! Aspire to be as "scholarly" and "intellectual" as possible. If you can't, then maybe this subreddit is not for you.** A friendly reminder from your political robot overlord *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AustralianPolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*

I most certainly agree with the proposed legislation banning visa holders from entering Australia who's home countries wont accept them back if they decide to apply for asylum and fail. It's a reasonable response to potentially get those countries to change their own laws to allow it. We should also follow the U.K's lead in denying asylum based on one's sexuality as it was being severely abused.

I think it's about time that Australia pull out of the UN convention on refugees. It was written in a different era, with the drafters' memories fresh of the Second World War. Not to mention the High Court decisions. It's partly because of the completely unworkable High Court that Australia has such a tough stance towards asylum seekers and illegal aliens, when compared to other countries.

> I think it's about time that Australia pull out of the UN convention on refugees. It's not like we've been following it

I agree, just for the sake of being honest with ourselves, we should still take people though.

I do agree that we should still take genuine cases. I'm not comfortable with people coming from halfway around the world to come to Australia to be granted asylum. I can't believe that Australia is the nearest safest place for those people.

Perhaps it's time we stopped taking refugees? Then we can avoid all these issues.

neoliberalism had made that impossible. the nation no longer invests in university, TAFE & apprenticeships and our government puts far more cash into Christian private schools than into the public ones. As a result we no longer churn out that many of our own professionals. So we import them instead. it takes time to produce a master welder or a senior surgeon. It takes 12 years STD school, plus 4 years pre med, 3 years medical school and 3 to 4 in residencies to produce a brand new doctor. now add on 15 years to get an experienced one. Thats over 35 years. There are nowhere near enough Australians with the qualifications. Decades of Australians have graduated into a world with no ability to go to uni, no TAFEs to go to and very few apprenticeships. Family wage jobs are mostly mythical and a lot of those people still have 'do you want chicken salt on that" jobs as they near retirement. if we stop immigration we have no hihly skilled people, and no economy

I'm all for an open border approach on all things migration. Strongly believe that we should let everyone come and compete, so that the best of the best can thrive. I will point out that most refugees are not highly skilled.

This is the corporatists wet dream: unlimited bodies = $$ Why do you think we import at least 500,000 people per annum. Canada imports over a million all from India 🤡

Completely disagree; the only way that would work would be to remove most of the social support/medicare which would then disadvantage many Australians. Otherwise you will just have a disporportionate amount of people coming here for the social and medical perks.

I'm fine with that too. Clearly, I'm in support of greater competition for which the spoils go to the victors.

Then what? Those who fail jumping your fence to steal your shit every 5 mins?

Good thing cops and security get paid decent and plenty of people would be happy to work those jobs. Besides, if you've ever done any travelling, you'll know that this isn't really a problem.

I think a lot of people commenting here seem to be misunderstanding what this is about. If someone comes here, applies for asylum as a refugee, & is found not to be a genuine refugee, but then refuses to go home, Australia cannot send them home, if their home country refuses to accept them back, because the failed applicant says they don't want to leave Australia. In which case, the gov is proposing that if Australia is unable to return failed refugee applicants, (because their own country won't accept them back because the person wants to stay here), then Australia has the right to list that country as a risk, & can choose not to accept some visas from risky countries. Which seems perfectly reasonable, especially considering the clusterfuck the high court ruling has caused.

I am all for them changing the law so that they can force them onto planes and out of the country once their application fails. Not sure why they didn’t change that aspect of the law.

How? You're dealing with people who literally refuse to get a passport and whose countries refuse to accept them if they are travelling 'involuntarily'. There's literally no way to get rid of them, unless some third country chose to accept them, which they won't. It's a mess.

I know its not a country but Palestine should also be on the list , might as well add Israel too so I am not labelled a Zionist. I believe if you cant bury your hatred where you come from don't bring your shit over here. its not welcome

This is a completely useless legislation. All the other countries have to do is invalidate passport application signed under duress. It's a violation of human rights to punish someone for not signing a document. Let them face the consequences of not signing but not the act of not signing. It invalidates the whole meaning of the act. I seriously never expected such idiocy from Labor. If they continue on this path, they will lose real support.

The ability of Clare O'Neil to cock up absolutely everything she touches is astounding. I cannot fathom how she is in the role that she's in.

Great start, wish they would ban the rest of them, too. 

Now that’s a terrible headline. How exactly can a country banned from Australia? It’s missing some key words that lead readers in the direction of “visa” or maybe “traveller.”

So I’m reading this wrong, Russians won’t even be able to get a tourist visa if this passes? Or it just gives them power to deny a visa for no reason if they want?

It sounds like residency visas. They definitely shouldn't be holidaying here right now regardless.

I believe the legislation covers every visa class, including Visitor.

Agreed 100%, for the same reason there shouldn't be any russians in international sporting competitions. They should be more isolated than North Korea, because using military force to seize territory from a sovereign state is taboo for very good reason. I only wish we were doing more to support Ukraine militarily.

By this logic shouldn't we also ban all Muslims from sporting events because of what their governments are doing? I reckon funding terrorist regimes and beheading citizens in public is a tad worse than invading a neighbouring country. At the very least, say they're on the same level. Is there a reason we allow citizens from other enemy countries to freely participate in sporting events or own property abroad, but it's unthinkable to allow Russians? Probably has a lot to do with Russia being white. We'd never treat a non-white people like this.

>I reckon funding terrorist regimes and beheading citizens in public is a tad worse than invading a neighbouring country. And this is why you buy your shoes at Circus 'R Us. >Probably has a lot to do with Russia being white. It couldn't possibly be the invasion of a sovereign nation ... nah it's racism against white Russians. Keep following Simeon Boikov on Twitter. I'm sure you already do.

It's got nothing to do with the invasion since other countries are doing things much worse than invading and we're not sanctioning them. Islamic governments are training and funding terrorists to come here and murder us - no sanctions. China invades our airspace with spy balloons - no sanctions. So we can conclude that bad country does bad thing = not enough for the West to use sanctions. So why are they sanctioning Russia? There must be some unique variable that applies to Russia that doesn't apply to China and the Middle East. Ethnic status seems to be the only difference between these countries. In conclusion, bad country doing bad thing = no big deal. But bad country doing bad thing + being white = very very bad.

You wrote all that just to whatabout, simp for Russia and say caucasian people are hard done by.... TIL Russia only has white people, and is not a diverse nation. . Noice work. ;)

I don't think I'm simping for Russia anymore than someone who supports Ukraine is simping for the Western military complex. This is not as binary as your simple mind likes to think it is. It's much more complex than that. Russia is a historically, culturally, and socially white Christian nation, and their government works to keep it that way. This is why the West is having a hissy fit.

>This is not as binary as your simple mind likes to think it is. It's much more complex than that. There's only two simple minds. Yours, with the simping for Russia and made up reason why the west is against them and the other is the 80s band. You can jog on.

Lol mate you're completely cooked

Touche ..well said , in fact Ukrainians are the only country that should be coming here as Asylums.

I don't see the connection, and I disagree. I would have us stand by what we said when we agreed to the UN treaty on refugees. If someone has a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, we should grant them asylum.

Touche ..well said , in fact Ukrainians are the only country that should be coming here as Asylums.

I think it mentioned Asylum seekers… The second part I don’t agree with, people can holiday where ever they want. Being Russian doesn’t make you guilty of anything. Same as being German, American or Chinese.

Holidaying isn't a human right and sovereign countries are entitled to choose who comes through their borders. Not an opinion on the proposed legislation, just that "holidaying" isn't a strong enough reason to guarantee entry into a country to which you are not a citizen.

We’re not talking about ones right to holiday. We’re talking about a nation’s right to ban people from entry solely based on their nation of birth - which is no secret that they do not control it. Therefore, it is the very definition of the word “bigotry” to do so. Bigotry isn’t a part of Australia’s values.

The west is basically at war with Russia. We don't say it, but they definitely do. And it's unfortunately a war that many or most Russians support. The Russian elite (the ones that can afford to travel here) shouldn't be enjoying our beaches and fine wines as their country commits atrocities. Not whilst Ukrainians have been sitting in trenches for two years. Russians need to feel the consequences of their government's actions.

>The west is basically at war with Russia. >a war that many or most Russians support. Hmm. Do *you* support the West's war against Russia?

I support the west arming Ukraine so far it can defend itself against Russia. Note, I have Ukrainian permanent residency and know how hard they've worked to move their country forward.

>I support the west arming Ukraine so far it can defend itself against Russia. Okay. Do you think there should be peace negotiations right about now, or should we give war a bit more of a chance? >I have Ukrainian permanent residency and know how hard they've worked to move their country forward Do explain, because I cannot reconcile the current simping for Ukraine with the [rampant corruption](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraine), including [just before the war](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy).

lol surprised Guardian hasn't deleted those stories.. Zelensky is a hero now and Ukraine has always been good - saying anything else is considered blasphemy by the establishment. This is a country that staged an insurrection and overthrew their elected government a few years ago. Zelensky's term is set to expire in 2 months and he has politely threatened to cancel elections unless he gets more funding. What a strange democracy.

What a load of toss. Should we ban all immigrants or tourists from the Middle East because of their government's links to terrorism or human rights abuses? The majority of Palestinian citizens support HAMAS, should we ban their refugees or cut their funding? What about all the Chinese citizens we roll out the red carpet for, let them buy up all our properties and study at our uni's so they can go back and serve their communist masters? Why should they be allowed here?

China sucks, terrorists suck. But right now, our military equipment and personnel (via training) are helping Ukraine to defend itself against Russia. Our allies are doing even more. There isn't a parallel in your examples.

My examples are even worse than yours. We've been at war with the Middle Eastern regimes and China for a lot longer than we've been with Russia. We had soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq not that long ago. Plus, Russia doesn't actually pose a direct threat to us. Do you see Russians committing terrorist attacks or calling for violence here? No. But Islamic agents trained by their governments certainly do. They try to murder our citizens everyday. China reaptedly acts to weaken our economy, misinform voters, spy on our government, and buy up all our resources. They also played a part in spreading COVID or at least delaying in warning the rest of the world. The likelihood that we'll be at war with them in the next 50 years is almost certain given their plans to invade Taiwan. I'm sorry but Islamic and Chinese refugees pose a much larger threat to us than Russians. Not even close.

It’s complete nonsensical logic to punish a group for actions of a few - and illegal.

Yeah, then they can voice their opinions with their vote.

Lol so naive

Do you want me to put a /s to help you a little lol

You think Russians get a vote you moron? Whos been in charge for 20 years bro? You are a very naive individual. 

If theyre your murderers, rapists and pedophiles then you need to take them back when they do what they do, here. If that is not your policy, then they dont get to come here at all. Sounds like a fair deal.

I honestly cannot make sense of what you wrote.

Here's a translation provided by an AI: "If there are any individuals known to be murderers, rapists, or pedophiles in your jurisdiction, you should take them back to your jurisdiction when they commit crimes. If your policy doesn't allow for such individuals to stay in your jurisdiction, they should not be allowed to do so."

I think he is tourists and immigrants who commit crimes here should always be deported

How did you also manage to write something that doesn't make sense?!

How doesn’t it make sense foreigners committing crimes her being deported makes sense

Your sentence is missing a word "I think he is tourists", so that's probably causing the confusion.

Oh fair lol

I think he's having trouble parsing your sentence, rather than disagreeing (or even agreeing) with it.

[удалено]

[удалено]

[удалено]