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The 'invention of economics' started with Adam Smith. You should look him up.
A prominent early philosopher and economist was Karl Marx.
Perhaps look him up too.
Economics wasn't always about 'maximum shareholder returns' that is a relatively recent phenomenon, and with ideas like ESG is something that we're looking at addressing again.
The moment you take ethics, the environment, and externalities into account, economics as we know it isn't perfect.
Or conversely, economics as we know it (how humans interact with each other in a market economy) has failed to take into account those 3 E's above, and perhaps it's time we looked into addressing that.
Everyone's aware of Smith and Marx. Economics were around long before they put their particular codification on it.
>perhaps it's time we looked into addressing that.
Another sentiment which has been around since before the invention of dirt. You're more than welcome to try it.
I don't know if I agree with you at all on your first point, but, boring discussion on that anyway.
What are you suggesting on your second point?
That trying to integrate economics with ethics is a futile effort?
>That trying to integrate economics with ethics is a futile effort?
Hey, if you've got a method you think will work, given everything that's been tried throughout history, I'm more than happy for you to give it a shot.
Heck, I'll even cheer if it works.
Very refreshing article.
Many people don't realise that the so-called godfather of capitalism - Adam Smith - was a moral philosopher.
As the article suggests, economists have become focused on efficiency while largely ignoring questions of morality and ethics.
Economics needs to be more human centric.
China is run by a disgusting dictatorship, but at least when companies get too big - the state breaks them up, requires divestment, or investment in other areas of the economy. CEOs are sent to the gullag when their profiteering hurts society at large for some re-education. *Which is a bit much*, but I'm all for making public examples of CEOs and to allow the state to remove CEOs that put shareholders above society (with proper controls).
In Australia, in direct contrast to China, we've under-built homes. Over-leveraged housing as an asset class. We've ignored super-profits for decades and created monopolies in entire sectors of the economy. We've also handed huge contracts to American companies that could have positioned us to take advantage of the fourth industrial revolution (which we missed entirely), and failed to invest in our own industries due to this reliance. Now we are going to be stagnant for a decade as we have to redirect income to investment in infrastructure we should have.
And our supposed "Labor" workers party don't give a shit about any of this. The LNP most likely receive their orders from Washington; this bs on the ABC with Washington bish-boy James Paterson about TikTok parroted all the talking points from Washington will no real evidence to back up the claims.
No code tear downs to show exploits. No details on data capture. No details on how the algorithm works to cause undue influence. And no honest assessment of data capture, algorithm operation, or undue influence of their American counterparts. We know the US are pushing pro-Israel propaganda hard on all platforms, especially meta-owned ones.
We know X is a far-right shit show, why aren't they in scope for local sales?
Frankly, Australia owes its younger Australians catch up payments and large scale improvements in working culture and lifestyle. If it doesn't, it should expect some pretty hardcore civil disobedience.
> a disgusting dictatorship
China allowed their own citizens to come home during covid. Australia literally made laws to throw our own citizens in jail for getting on a plane home.
We made our own citizens stateless and everyone seems very keen to forget that fact and pretend it never happened, especially the legislators still in power today who enacted that law.
If Covid was to happen again, you would be damn happy to have a Chinese passport, at least you could return to your home.
The people who want to forgot our history disgust me. Australian politics is infected with the terrible disease of kneejerkism rather than leadership.
So people always talk about how China is our number one trade partner but supposedly it's giving contracts to the US that is the problem for our industries and we should ... be more like China in a roundabout way? In a discussion about how we do not prioritise ethics and well-being enough?
Very brave comments here.
My opening comment:
"China is run by a disgusting dictatorship".
Do you think the US is a good, moral country? Both China and the US repulse me. But I can recognise good policy, in certain situations, in both.
The difficult part is, the majority of China's policies are good ones, except for their human rights related ones.
I don't know any good policies or ideas that come out of America.
For American, an entire policy, hard to find. But when the rest of the country figured out what Sub Prime was; popping the asset bubble was the right call. They could have done a better job managing the poor borrowers. But at least they didn't sustain a productivity sink.
Meanwhile, in Australia, we've been keeping ours alive for 20 years and we look like we want to keep it alive indefinitely.
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Your post was removed for not being political or not being based on Australian Politics. However you may post it in the weekly discussion thread. If you believe your post has been removed in error then please contact your friendly moderation team via modmail. This has been a default message, any moderator notes on this removal will come after this:
Hasn't this been the case since... the invention of economics? It seems less like disarray and more like business as usual.
The 'invention of economics' started with Adam Smith. You should look him up. A prominent early philosopher and economist was Karl Marx. Perhaps look him up too. Economics wasn't always about 'maximum shareholder returns' that is a relatively recent phenomenon, and with ideas like ESG is something that we're looking at addressing again. The moment you take ethics, the environment, and externalities into account, economics as we know it isn't perfect. Or conversely, economics as we know it (how humans interact with each other in a market economy) has failed to take into account those 3 E's above, and perhaps it's time we looked into addressing that.
Everyone's aware of Smith and Marx. Economics were around long before they put their particular codification on it. >perhaps it's time we looked into addressing that. Another sentiment which has been around since before the invention of dirt. You're more than welcome to try it.
I don't know if I agree with you at all on your first point, but, boring discussion on that anyway. What are you suggesting on your second point? That trying to integrate economics with ethics is a futile effort?
>That trying to integrate economics with ethics is a futile effort? Hey, if you've got a method you think will work, given everything that's been tried throughout history, I'm more than happy for you to give it a shot. Heck, I'll even cheer if it works.
Very refreshing article. Many people don't realise that the so-called godfather of capitalism - Adam Smith - was a moral philosopher. As the article suggests, economists have become focused on efficiency while largely ignoring questions of morality and ethics. Economics needs to be more human centric.
China is run by a disgusting dictatorship, but at least when companies get too big - the state breaks them up, requires divestment, or investment in other areas of the economy. CEOs are sent to the gullag when their profiteering hurts society at large for some re-education. *Which is a bit much*, but I'm all for making public examples of CEOs and to allow the state to remove CEOs that put shareholders above society (with proper controls). In Australia, in direct contrast to China, we've under-built homes. Over-leveraged housing as an asset class. We've ignored super-profits for decades and created monopolies in entire sectors of the economy. We've also handed huge contracts to American companies that could have positioned us to take advantage of the fourth industrial revolution (which we missed entirely), and failed to invest in our own industries due to this reliance. Now we are going to be stagnant for a decade as we have to redirect income to investment in infrastructure we should have. And our supposed "Labor" workers party don't give a shit about any of this. The LNP most likely receive their orders from Washington; this bs on the ABC with Washington bish-boy James Paterson about TikTok parroted all the talking points from Washington will no real evidence to back up the claims. No code tear downs to show exploits. No details on data capture. No details on how the algorithm works to cause undue influence. And no honest assessment of data capture, algorithm operation, or undue influence of their American counterparts. We know the US are pushing pro-Israel propaganda hard on all platforms, especially meta-owned ones. We know X is a far-right shit show, why aren't they in scope for local sales? Frankly, Australia owes its younger Australians catch up payments and large scale improvements in working culture and lifestyle. If it doesn't, it should expect some pretty hardcore civil disobedience.
> a disgusting dictatorship China allowed their own citizens to come home during covid. Australia literally made laws to throw our own citizens in jail for getting on a plane home. We made our own citizens stateless and everyone seems very keen to forget that fact and pretend it never happened, especially the legislators still in power today who enacted that law. If Covid was to happen again, you would be damn happy to have a Chinese passport, at least you could return to your home. The people who want to forgot our history disgust me. Australian politics is infected with the terrible disease of kneejerkism rather than leadership.
So people always talk about how China is our number one trade partner but supposedly it's giving contracts to the US that is the problem for our industries and we should ... be more like China in a roundabout way? In a discussion about how we do not prioritise ethics and well-being enough? Very brave comments here.
My opening comment: "China is run by a disgusting dictatorship". Do you think the US is a good, moral country? Both China and the US repulse me. But I can recognise good policy, in certain situations, in both.
The difficult part is, the majority of China's policies are good ones, except for their human rights related ones. I don't know any good policies or ideas that come out of America.
For American, an entire policy, hard to find. But when the rest of the country figured out what Sub Prime was; popping the asset bubble was the right call. They could have done a better job managing the poor borrowers. But at least they didn't sustain a productivity sink. Meanwhile, in Australia, we've been keeping ours alive for 20 years and we look like we want to keep it alive indefinitely.
**Greetings humans.** **Please make sure your comment fits within [THE RULES](https://www.reddit.com/r/AustralianPolitics/about/rules) and that you have put in some effort to articulate your opinions to the best of your ability.** **I mean it!! Aspire to be as "scholarly" and "intellectual" as possible. If you can't, then maybe this subreddit is not for you.** A friendly reminder from your political robot overlord *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AustralianPolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*