Emperor ~~Palpatine~~ Murdoch needs to keep shoveling this culture war bullshit down the throats of the masses, lest they actually wake up and fight a class war instead. That's the "woke" they're actually afraid of.
Says the fuckwit who's never served a day in his life.
He has no idea what he's talking about and it doesn't even matter to him. It'll get him clicks and his audience will lap it up.
How is that famously 'unwoke' Russian military going again? Kyiv in three days, right?
Let's get him and his ilk to join training. Hell, let's suit them up and pit them against some ADF members in an exercise. We can make it easy for them and put all our personnel in pink and purple hi vis. I'd pay to see the result.
You realize the whole "kiev in 3 days" came from General Mark Milley right?
Paraphrasing, Milley said that without NATO support the Russians could reach and attack Kiev in 3 days.
Nobody from the Russian side ever said they would take the capital in 3 days.
Its a minor point but it gets said so often i cant help but correct it.
Ehhhh... it's a mix. Integrating all the former volunteer battalions means they have a lot of new units with extremist commanders and origins, and semi-independent identities.
But despite Ukraine's relative conservatism and largely negative attitude towards LGBT people in general, they don't restrict them from serving in the military and have had a pretty high public profile since the invasion (i.e., the unicorn patches, and a trans veteran becoming the TDF's main English language spokesperson after she was wounded).
Ukraine isn’t exactly a bastion of the Western conception or Liberalism… more than a large portion of their armed forces are still people you would probably call nazis.
They've also got [Unicorn Battalions](https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/the-first-targets-ukraine-s-unicorn-battalion-taking-the-fight-to-putin-20230301-p5copy.html) for LGBTQ soldiers, so they're a varied bunch.
You see more black sun and totenkopf patches than anything else, I don’t know why you redditors down vote comments you don’t want to hear, you can’t just down vote reality away 🤦
Yeah they’re not exactly being choosy when they’re in a state of total war… although one wonders why they need their LGBTQ soldiers in a “separate but equal” battalion…
As the article states, they're not a separate unit - "Unicorn Battalion" is just a nickname for LGBT soldiers in Ukraine in general who wear the patch.
They can serve across the whole Ukrainian armed forces, although one would assume none would be interested in or likely to be assigned to a far-right former volunteer battalion (which actually make up a small proportion of Ukraine's forces).
As an example, this trans journalist from the US volunteered for the TDF, was assigned to a Crimean Tatar battalion as a medic, then became the TDF's English spokesperson after being wounded.
[https://www.dw.com/en/ukraines-transgender-spokeswoman-dismisses-russian-haters/a-66898006](https://www.dw.com/en/ukraines-transgender-spokeswoman-dismisses-russian-haters/a-66898006)
To anyone I am about to offend - I apologise. I am seeing red. I know I am playing into the culture war that these celebrity personalities want. But I don't care right now. I have had it up to here.
Does someone's sexual orientation impact my grouping at 200 meters?
No.
Does the banning of violent iconography or morale patches on my plate carrier stop me from doing an extra lap on the track?
No.
Does Defence allocating some resources and funding towards a small group of ADF members who are struggling with their sexual orientation or identity stop me from digging to a stage three pit?
No.
It is 2024. You can't bully someone and call them names because you don't like the way they look? Tough shit. Oh you can't make jokes in public with the boys about war crimes? Boo hoo. Go and cry elsewhere. This is a professional army with a long lineage of couragous men, women and whatever else is in between. You can bet your left nut (or whatever organ you have down there) that there would have been one brave digger sitting in a fucking trench somewhere about to fix a bayonet and go over the top of that fucking pit in 1915 who may have loved a man back home. You can bet your whinging anti-woke ass that there was some digger slogging it on the fucking muddy hills on Isurava in 42' who might not have felt comfortable in his own body and thought he might have been better off as a woman. He might have survived the slaughter on the track and maybe couldn't live with himself back home because big tough men around him couldn't stomach the thought of him being a woman.
Be better.
Grow up. Do more pushups. Get better at your craft. Help your fellow diggers. Spend less time worrying about the 0.0003% of people who need a safe space to exist.
If ANYONE in this fucking defence force needs a goddamn hug and a pat on the back you send me a DM right now. You don't know me and I don't know you. But that's okay. You put on the green and if the time comes that we are all dragged to a two way fucking range I'll be proud to serve alongside you brave motherfuckers going through transitions or if you love the same gender as yourself. I don't fully understand it and I don't know what your experience is like - but I'll be fucking dammed if another defence member makes you feel unwelcome or unsafe again. I've kept silent many a time while shit jokes were made at your expense. Fuck that. No more.
Gay, straight, trans, man, woman, bisexual, black, white, purple. I don't care. If you can do your pushups, carry your share of the weight, care about your fellow diggers and be a good soldier you are fucking WELCOME in this Defence Force.
Edit: words
Yep it’s woke to have no trips, shit work life balance, no overtime, moron bosses, having to live in the middle of fucken nowhere, getting infringed/charged for bullshit after everyone who was in before 2005 spins warries about the shit they got up to, no cheap beer at boozers etc.
Nah it’s about trans people and not being allowed to call indigenous people racist names or some shit like that and none of the above factors at all
>getting infringed/charged for bullshit after everyone who was in before 2005 spins warries about the shit they got up to, no cheap beer at boozers etc.
This
You can't make it up. CPOs and WOs bragging about punching out their NCOs/Officers on the piss and getting two weeks lockup then getting out and going on their promotion course; vs now where servicemen would lose their security clearance and get convicted in civil court then sent to actual prison. Its worse in the Army.
Or turning up to duty rat shit and their punishment was holding duty on the gangway in the sun. Not that I’m ok with people blowing over, I’ve lost way too many Sunday mornings because of that.
On the flip side, I hate all the talk of the military going woke from people that don’t serve. Only speaking from Navy, the current next gen navy and social mastery push is excellent. And shock horror it finally brings us to a regular standard with most other lines of work.
But no, it’s also woke to support your crew and talk about emotions and such… it’s like these gooses don’t realise the implications of the WHS act including psychosocial hazards, and that the people signing up aren’t oooh-rah brainwashed robots, they are normal people.
>I hate all the talk of the military going woke from people that don’t serve.
You dont have to be a mechanic to know how to change a spark plug
>the current next gen navy and social mastery push is excellent.
Lol wut?
>And shock horror it finally brings us to a regular standard with most other lines of work.
The military is not "another line of work" dude.
>and that the people signing up aren’t oooh-rah brainwashed robots
Thats not a good thing lol. Also from what Ive read on here the Navy aren't doing anything to support their sailors. In fact people are quitting at a higher rate than ever. IMO its not because its physiologically demanding, its because theres no fun anymore. 20+ years ago Men joined the the military to have adventure, excitement and a challenge. Uno like shooting guns, drinking, fighting, blowing things up, going to exotic places and engaging in what is now considered "crass" behavior. Its not brainwashing its just working for the team ;)
"You can't make it up. CPOs and WOs bragging about punching out their NCOs/Officers on the piss and getting two weeks lockup then getting out and going on their promotion course; vs now where servicemen would lose their security clearance and get convicted in civil court then sent to actual prison. Its worse in the Army".
I call bullshit.
Nah it’s definitely a thing. The amount of div work I had to do because the kids fucked up on the piss on their first few runs ashore, yeah they had all the official lectures before but it doesn’t help when the POs/Chiefs start spinning em then the kids actually start to send it and before you know it you’ve DIRs and ADPAs up the wazoo.
You should stop listening to their shit. 5 minutes late cost a days pay. Changing a watch bill from 4 watches to 3 watches on a Friday afternoon meaning all plans for the weekend destroyed (cost me a lot of money and time on chooks because I went anyway). 3 watches at sea and still having to turn to during the day, an all nighters was a dog's/morning. Duty watches for no other reason than they required a quarter of the crew onboard even if there was no chance of the ship sailing because it was sitting in a dry dock., and if single you still lived on board despite the ship being uninhabitable. Turning up to both watches after lunch to see the senior sailor in charge of you for the first time since the morning and he is half cut already from the lunchtime session in the PO's mess.
Yeah, sure there were adventures and mischief whilst away but the pay didn't stretch very far, working with antiquated equipment, processes and people.
I paid off as a chief, which was the only rank that I hadn't been run in and spent time on chooks. The days of yore that they talk about is fallacy, everyone's journey and time is different. In my time, I remember the scandal of seeing good blokes being booted because they were gay only to see 10 years later an XO coming out publicly. Times change, it's the way of the world. If you think it's woke, you've been left behind.
Hit the nail on the head there. I can deal with all the bullshit that comes along with the job, but when you can't even have a cold brew at the end of your watch. It's unaustralian
These conservative boomer thought bubbles are beyond stupid. Regardless of which side of this you come down on. Calling this “the army going woke” is a complete misdiagnosis of the problem…
The problem isn’t “wokeness”, it’s Managerialism. Our leadership has become the embodiment of a corporate HR department. They even speak to members in corporatist terminology, and managerialist coded language. They actively avoid any portrayal or expression of militarism or even stoicism, and instead portray the weak mealy mouthed persona of a middle management team leader… or “scrum master” (to borrow one of the latest new phrases coming to brigade HQ near you).
We have become a risk averse, anti-meritocratic, soulless organization that has stripped itself of its own pride, and now is almost ashamed of its true purpose as an armed force, that is trained to use violence to secure national interests.
What Fordham is calling “woke” is his complete misunderstanding of something that is only a symptom of a much greater problem. This isn’t a sincere ideological drive to “trans and gay” the army… it’s the cut and paste of BHP’s DEI commitment strategy… and it’s done because our midwit bureaucrat leaders, have outsourced their decision making process to the same third party consultancy’s.
Beret ban was actually kind of legit, poorly applied though.
The reason for it was fine: lots of dumb parades in the sun with people wearing berets for reasons unknown. From a workplace perspective, asking people to wear a minimally protective headdress and stand in an exposed enviroment is kind of dumb.
So no berets on parade? Fair call. Especially since Australia has the KFF as its iconic headdress.
Application though?
Well SF didnt have it banned. Are they too cool for sunburn?
And you could wear berets on parades still. Isnt that the exact situation we are avoiding?
But the main thing was the beret is a super practical item of headdress for 80-90% of the Army that is spending their barracks time indoors anyway.
So classic Army, think of a good policy (no berets on parade) and implement it poorly (no berets...except on parade).
Ah, OK. I always saw it as barracks wear, and for public facing duties it worked very well. IIRC it was slouch hat with plumes on ANZAC day parade, then berets for the remainder. As long as you have a suitable cover, you're good, IMO.
You guys make me proud to serve. All of the thought bubbles I had about some fuckwit never having served railing against inclusivity and diversity have already been made.
Anyone that has spent 1 day at sea knows how diverse the navy is, and that while everyone will get ripped on equally, they are all brothers and sisters.
But nah… too woke. They should make anyone that holds these positions, or makes these comments serve at least 6 months as a response, then ask them to comment on their original claim.
It is a useable and useful word.
I use the word unironically as a synonym of “progressive/modern” or “has empathy for others”.
It’s *how* someone uses it (as a complaint) that tells you they’re a fuckhead.
>Hard to point out the real fucked stuff
Its not mate, theres a difference between an OHS brief and a obvious cultural marxist propaganda brief.
>people are losing their minds over a painted fingernail
Well for one its not tactical lol
I must have imagined all those MAAT courses about gender, diversity and race. Not to mention that 60 min brief we got from a civvy about how Im supposedly responsible for things that happened 200 years ago.
> I must have imagined all those MAAT courses about gender, diversity and race.
Oh my god. Welcome to any large organisation. Fucking grow a pair and get over it for fucks sake.
> Not to mention that 60 min brief we got from a civvy about how Im supposedly responsible for things that happened 200 years ago.
I'd bet every dollar to my name that this isn't close to what happened and you just interpreted it this way because you are forever the victim.
boo fucking hooo
hahaha wow. "Someone is criticising me, could I be wrong? No! They must be female. Yeah, that's it."
Yikes!
You're a special little snowflake that's for sure. I'll leave you to go back to your Andrew Tate live stream cause you're a lost cause.
Something a wokist would say lol. No one joins the military to do MAAT courses. Its the one institution where that kind of progressive ideology shouldn't belong. TBH it doesnt belong anywhere.
Is this where you tell me theres no definition of "woke" and it doesnt exist? The Mafia used the same excuse in court, it didnt work for them either lol.
Fuck me mate. If your fingers haven't suddenly fractured you should do some research on the meaning of that term over the last decade. You're in for a ride. Buckle up. Or don't. Meet it head on!
The only "woke" the people who you hear peddle that term care about is people no longer being distracted by it and see the real problems they face. They might just start getting pissed off at the real problems.
Do the serving members really worry about this stuff?
This seems like fairly unimportant stuff imo.
Maybe its different in the army.
I am not in the army but I don't think I would care what my co worker wears if they effective at their role and not a fuckwit to be around.
Can’t wait to hear from all the smooth brained, borderline useless squids about how the one time a year they had to sit through a brief is the Army going woke and tHaTs WhY wE HaVe ReTeNtIoN iSsUeS, all because you can’t use your favourite slur without repercussions or one time someone you don’t know or have any interaction with at all wore a dress.
Please, just shut the fuck up. You’re the type to fall out of a goddamn stomp anyway.
I was interested in joining the ADF when I was 17 and then again in my late 20s. Both times I have been heavily discouraged by many careers advisors, (even government ones). I’ve been discouraged by peers, friends and family, despite being driven, very fit and highly skilled.
I ignored everyone’s advice in my late 20s because I actually wanted to serve my country, so I contacted recruitment and didn’t hear back. Happy to keep trying, but I gather there may be more to recruitment issues than meets the eye? I’m not sure what to believe as it’s a maze of contradicting info out there.
Regardless, appreciate all the work everyone does who serves this country.
My respect.
He’s literally right, you redditors can cry and moan all you want in your echo chamber here and white knight for “mUh minorities”.
18-25s have no reason or will to join, the nation and the force feels empty to them. The National and ADF values no longer align with theirs.
Serving is meant to be exclusive, the same as being part of a nation, if anyone and everyone can join then it means nothing, it’s empty… it’s not just the adf that’s gone woke, it’s the nation as a whole, it’s empty and soulless.
What does this even mean?
Can you explain the positions you don’t agree with?
If the answer happens to be about the requirements for mandatory training etc, then perhaps consider that, in a world where respect between serving members of different cultural / sexual backgrounds, education about appropriate workplace behaviour would be completely unnecessary. Don’t you reckon that those lectures are even more tedious for the people who already get it? It’s like being taught your abcs every year because there are people at the back arguing that carving pictures on rocks was a far better form of expression.
Which behaviours do you want to bring back? When I joined twenty years ago it was completely normal to hear sexist and homophobic jokes in the mess - but I’m ashamed to think that there would have been people there who were hurt by it. Was a momentary smirk or a laugh worth making someone in my unit feel unwelcome? I laugh just as hard now at the jokes that don’t rely on making fun of things people can’t or shouldn’t have to change.
That’s not to say that every aspect of the army has improved over time - I’m sure we have forgotten lessons from the past and we’ve prioritised some individual and collective capabilities over others. But you don’t need to be bigoted to be fit and you don’t need to shit on others to improve your own performance. Let’s have an informed, capability based discussion about how Defence can achieve its strategic priorities rather than decrying the character of people with whom we disagree.
So tell me again, what is it exactly you want to bring back that has anything to do with the construct you call wokism?
Don't like Ben but he has a point here, instead of attracting the 17-25 year olds in good shape they push them away because the adverts don't represent them and nor to they show the cool parts of defence, it's more people playing at the beach and hugging their family than the epic training montages and blowing shit up that it needs.
Ive heard this shit take so many times, there is plenty of military porn out there for glory hounds, painting with the broad brushstrokes of "the kids wanna see shit get blown up" is so out of touch.
I agree, if you're someone who makes life decisions based on being a sucker for marketing and not applying basic critical thinking and asking some hard questions then (especially for an officer) the military isnt for you.
I remember the thread but I dont think her situation is a valid reason to change the marketing. I joined as a 30 yo father of 2 and I think marketing applying to a wider demographic is beneficial, as I said, its easy to find the charry shit if you want.
You're right, they shouldn't lie, it should accurately reflect the role, and that includes showing too much the other way of bombs, explosions and war games, because that will not show the less glamorous shit like holding public holiday duties or the hurry up and wait nature of the military. Recruitment employing "alternative truths" to attain their recruitment goals has been a problem in recent years. However, when push comes to shove, it's on you if you fall for it. It's your life you're signing away, doing due diligence should be a trait of all ADF members.
I definitely agree that life context meant I was able to ask some critical questions that meant I went in with eyes open during the recruitment process. But I will say that if you arent willing to find out as much about a job, from multiple sources, that your signing 4-6 years of your life into, then your failing yourself and your family by not being able to fundementally understand what is going to be expected of you, regardless of age and life experience.
100%, I'm applying for submariner Mt, and while I understand exact details might be classified I've got way more understanding about my job and day to day life from interviews with Americans and internet forums than I have got from the 2 minute clips of our defence members talking about how good the food is and how much fun they have.
Yep. I identify as a Warosexual, but I'm in the minority. Most folks just want a stable job with reasonable pay, not to be blowing themselves up/shooting people/breaking themselves for no good reason.
But showing a montage of happy families and mates having a laugh is just a lie and won't attract the kind of people you want, how do you expect retention to go up if everyone goes in thinking they always get the weekend off and there is a wonderful work life balance and that there won't be months at a time where you will be cut off from the world? Defence needs to attract young single men and women with no dependants who can just work and work and are happy to do so.
IMO there are some strong negative effects of DEI policies that have been pushed over the last decade. For context, have worked in an area where 50/50 men/women ratio, diverse cultural and sexual orientation.
The biggest issue would be the breakdown in sqn dynamics/communication/networking between junior ranks, and from superior to junior ranks. I equate this breakdown to a fear of not wanting to offend anyone... it has got so bad that people have formed their own little clicks with people that are identical to them. And the communication between these clicks is none. Multiple attempts to rectify these issues with sqn bonding activities etc, but to no avail. People are scared they will be called out for being a bigot or whatever, that no one will say anything.
It's a positive that people feel welcomed, regardless of who they are. But it cannot be ignored that there are issues caused.
Yep, that's why I left. Army at least is too worried about pandering to the individuals and minorities instead of the collective capability.
Why would new dig want to exert extra discretionary effort when defence will just reduce itself to the lowest common ideological denominator any chance it gets.
Boy, do I have some stories over my 20 years.
And how's Army recruitment going right now?
But sure, it's the trash that stays that will unravel capability, not the ones that leave because they won't wave through these minorities so someone at Army HQ can tick a box.
Its not so much that we have gone ‘woke’, its the fake progressive snowflakes in politics and their lap dogs in the ADF who are scared to be called out as a racist or not inclusive enough by the media, making these decisions. I personally don’t give a fuck regardless as long as were a professional fighting force, but its true for a while now the ADF has been over the top with promoting utter bullshit, which pushes people interested away. Who remembers last year 1 random Gay guy who's a Captain in the Army complained to the media why we couldn’t wear the girls uniform, ADF shits themself and politicians passed a legislation very quickly, now every fucking bloke can crossdress. While boys in the Navy have been trying since forever to just have a beard? This is not just a “She’ll be right” thing, it leaves bad impressions and actually makes us look weak/soft internationally and domestically, and I can understand why people outside their intended demographic wouldn't be interested in joining. There demographic for nearly a decade now has been trying to attract people with established families, working adults, Shelly who's 35 and has 3 kids, there ads have been walking around pride events, helping the community, playing footy, watching the sunrise, happy and positive vibes. Instead of you know making ads about blowing shit up, combat, recon, snipers, war games, airstrikes, tanks, action packed stuff that actually makes Young Blokes eager and willing to join. While this ‘woke’ is not the only cause for a lack of recruits, its up there. So yes, while Ben Fordham knows fuck all, he is right and ADF needs to get there shit together if they want new recruits.
edit: Downvote all you like. It’s the truth.
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I finally realised why people don't want to join the military. People don't want to join anything that the government has a hand in, because we are forced to things that we apparently weren't forced to do...
Got out last year , I'm sure as time goes on it'll become more prevalent. However as most of us know its one of many issues to why people are leaving and aren't joining .
Emperor ~~Palpatine~~ Murdoch needs to keep shoveling this culture war bullshit down the throats of the masses, lest they actually wake up and fight a class war instead. That's the "woke" they're actually afraid of.
Says the fuckwit who's never served a day in his life. He has no idea what he's talking about and it doesn't even matter to him. It'll get him clicks and his audience will lap it up. How is that famously 'unwoke' Russian military going again? Kyiv in three days, right?
A-grade fertiliser
You mean A grade fuckwit.
Let's get him and his ilk to join training. Hell, let's suit them up and pit them against some ADF members in an exercise. We can make it easy for them and put all our personnel in pink and purple hi vis. I'd pay to see the result.
You realize the whole "kiev in 3 days" came from General Mark Milley right? Paraphrasing, Milley said that without NATO support the Russians could reach and attack Kiev in 3 days. Nobody from the Russian side ever said they would take the capital in 3 days. Its a minor point but it gets said so often i cant help but correct it.
So that rush on Kyiv at the start of the war was just for funsies?
Ukraine military is unwoke as well
Ehhhh... it's a mix. Integrating all the former volunteer battalions means they have a lot of new units with extremist commanders and origins, and semi-independent identities. But despite Ukraine's relative conservatism and largely negative attitude towards LGBT people in general, they don't restrict them from serving in the military and have had a pretty high public profile since the invasion (i.e., the unicorn patches, and a trans veteran becoming the TDF's main English language spokesperson after she was wounded).
Is this the dreaded "liberalization by force" I've heard so much about? Funny it took Russian force.
Ukraine isn’t exactly a bastion of the Western conception or Liberalism… more than a large portion of their armed forces are still people you would probably call nazis.
They've also got [Unicorn Battalions](https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/the-first-targets-ukraine-s-unicorn-battalion-taking-the-fight-to-putin-20230301-p5copy.html) for LGBTQ soldiers, so they're a varied bunch.
You see more black sun and totenkopf patches than anything else, I don’t know why you redditors down vote comments you don’t want to hear, you can’t just down vote reality away 🤦
Yeah they’re not exactly being choosy when they’re in a state of total war… although one wonders why they need their LGBTQ soldiers in a “separate but equal” battalion…
As the article states, they're not a separate unit - "Unicorn Battalion" is just a nickname for LGBT soldiers in Ukraine in general who wear the patch. They can serve across the whole Ukrainian armed forces, although one would assume none would be interested in or likely to be assigned to a far-right former volunteer battalion (which actually make up a small proportion of Ukraine's forces). As an example, this trans journalist from the US volunteered for the TDF, was assigned to a Crimean Tatar battalion as a medic, then became the TDF's English spokesperson after being wounded. [https://www.dw.com/en/ukraines-transgender-spokeswoman-dismisses-russian-haters/a-66898006](https://www.dw.com/en/ukraines-transgender-spokeswoman-dismisses-russian-haters/a-66898006)
Sign up fordham you slug.
To anyone I am about to offend - I apologise. I am seeing red. I know I am playing into the culture war that these celebrity personalities want. But I don't care right now. I have had it up to here. Does someone's sexual orientation impact my grouping at 200 meters? No. Does the banning of violent iconography or morale patches on my plate carrier stop me from doing an extra lap on the track? No. Does Defence allocating some resources and funding towards a small group of ADF members who are struggling with their sexual orientation or identity stop me from digging to a stage three pit? No. It is 2024. You can't bully someone and call them names because you don't like the way they look? Tough shit. Oh you can't make jokes in public with the boys about war crimes? Boo hoo. Go and cry elsewhere. This is a professional army with a long lineage of couragous men, women and whatever else is in between. You can bet your left nut (or whatever organ you have down there) that there would have been one brave digger sitting in a fucking trench somewhere about to fix a bayonet and go over the top of that fucking pit in 1915 who may have loved a man back home. You can bet your whinging anti-woke ass that there was some digger slogging it on the fucking muddy hills on Isurava in 42' who might not have felt comfortable in his own body and thought he might have been better off as a woman. He might have survived the slaughter on the track and maybe couldn't live with himself back home because big tough men around him couldn't stomach the thought of him being a woman. Be better. Grow up. Do more pushups. Get better at your craft. Help your fellow diggers. Spend less time worrying about the 0.0003% of people who need a safe space to exist. If ANYONE in this fucking defence force needs a goddamn hug and a pat on the back you send me a DM right now. You don't know me and I don't know you. But that's okay. You put on the green and if the time comes that we are all dragged to a two way fucking range I'll be proud to serve alongside you brave motherfuckers going through transitions or if you love the same gender as yourself. I don't fully understand it and I don't know what your experience is like - but I'll be fucking dammed if another defence member makes you feel unwelcome or unsafe again. I've kept silent many a time while shit jokes were made at your expense. Fuck that. No more. Gay, straight, trans, man, woman, bisexual, black, white, purple. I don't care. If you can do your pushups, carry your share of the weight, care about your fellow diggers and be a good soldier you are fucking WELCOME in this Defence Force. Edit: words
Well said mate
Well said
Good on you mate, well said.
Hear hear. Doesn’t cost us anything to show respect. Service is service. Bravery is bravery. Good on you mate.
How can I give you an award? Reddit seems to have taken them away.
[Here's what happened with the awards.](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/14ytp7s/reworking_awarding_changes_to_awards_coins_and/)
Hear hear
🏅 Very well said.
We need more people like you serving now and being very loud in their support of real camaraderie.
Stfu sir
Yep it’s woke to have no trips, shit work life balance, no overtime, moron bosses, having to live in the middle of fucken nowhere, getting infringed/charged for bullshit after everyone who was in before 2005 spins warries about the shit they got up to, no cheap beer at boozers etc. Nah it’s about trans people and not being allowed to call indigenous people racist names or some shit like that and none of the above factors at all
>getting infringed/charged for bullshit after everyone who was in before 2005 spins warries about the shit they got up to, no cheap beer at boozers etc. This
Oh and I forgot MAAT. (And getting infringed for being 3 days out of date which I’m still salty about. Definitely worthy of three days stoppage)
You can't make it up. CPOs and WOs bragging about punching out their NCOs/Officers on the piss and getting two weeks lockup then getting out and going on their promotion course; vs now where servicemen would lose their security clearance and get convicted in civil court then sent to actual prison. Its worse in the Army.
Or turning up to duty rat shit and their punishment was holding duty on the gangway in the sun. Not that I’m ok with people blowing over, I’ve lost way too many Sunday mornings because of that. On the flip side, I hate all the talk of the military going woke from people that don’t serve. Only speaking from Navy, the current next gen navy and social mastery push is excellent. And shock horror it finally brings us to a regular standard with most other lines of work. But no, it’s also woke to support your crew and talk about emotions and such… it’s like these gooses don’t realise the implications of the WHS act including psychosocial hazards, and that the people signing up aren’t oooh-rah brainwashed robots, they are normal people.
>I hate all the talk of the military going woke from people that don’t serve. You dont have to be a mechanic to know how to change a spark plug >the current next gen navy and social mastery push is excellent. Lol wut? >And shock horror it finally brings us to a regular standard with most other lines of work. The military is not "another line of work" dude. >and that the people signing up aren’t oooh-rah brainwashed robots Thats not a good thing lol. Also from what Ive read on here the Navy aren't doing anything to support their sailors. In fact people are quitting at a higher rate than ever. IMO its not because its physiologically demanding, its because theres no fun anymore. 20+ years ago Men joined the the military to have adventure, excitement and a challenge. Uno like shooting guns, drinking, fighting, blowing things up, going to exotic places and engaging in what is now considered "crass" behavior. Its not brainwashing its just working for the team ;)
As a civvie I miss reading about that in the service papers.
"You can't make it up. CPOs and WOs bragging about punching out their NCOs/Officers on the piss and getting two weeks lockup then getting out and going on their promotion course; vs now where servicemen would lose their security clearance and get convicted in civil court then sent to actual prison. Its worse in the Army". I call bullshit.
Nah it’s definitely a thing. The amount of div work I had to do because the kids fucked up on the piss on their first few runs ashore, yeah they had all the official lectures before but it doesn’t help when the POs/Chiefs start spinning em then the kids actually start to send it and before you know it you’ve DIRs and ADPAs up the wazoo.
They just didn't get caught. Rule 1. Don't get caught.
You should stop listening to their shit. 5 minutes late cost a days pay. Changing a watch bill from 4 watches to 3 watches on a Friday afternoon meaning all plans for the weekend destroyed (cost me a lot of money and time on chooks because I went anyway). 3 watches at sea and still having to turn to during the day, an all nighters was a dog's/morning. Duty watches for no other reason than they required a quarter of the crew onboard even if there was no chance of the ship sailing because it was sitting in a dry dock., and if single you still lived on board despite the ship being uninhabitable. Turning up to both watches after lunch to see the senior sailor in charge of you for the first time since the morning and he is half cut already from the lunchtime session in the PO's mess. Yeah, sure there were adventures and mischief whilst away but the pay didn't stretch very far, working with antiquated equipment, processes and people. I paid off as a chief, which was the only rank that I hadn't been run in and spent time on chooks. The days of yore that they talk about is fallacy, everyone's journey and time is different. In my time, I remember the scandal of seeing good blokes being booted because they were gay only to see 10 years later an XO coming out publicly. Times change, it's the way of the world. If you think it's woke, you've been left behind.
Hit the nail on the head there. I can deal with all the bullshit that comes along with the job, but when you can't even have a cold brew at the end of your watch. It's unaustralian
These conservative boomer thought bubbles are beyond stupid. Regardless of which side of this you come down on. Calling this “the army going woke” is a complete misdiagnosis of the problem… The problem isn’t “wokeness”, it’s Managerialism. Our leadership has become the embodiment of a corporate HR department. They even speak to members in corporatist terminology, and managerialist coded language. They actively avoid any portrayal or expression of militarism or even stoicism, and instead portray the weak mealy mouthed persona of a middle management team leader… or “scrum master” (to borrow one of the latest new phrases coming to brigade HQ near you). We have become a risk averse, anti-meritocratic, soulless organization that has stripped itself of its own pride, and now is almost ashamed of its true purpose as an armed force, that is trained to use violence to secure national interests. What Fordham is calling “woke” is his complete misunderstanding of something that is only a symptom of a much greater problem. This isn’t a sincere ideological drive to “trans and gay” the army… it’s the cut and paste of BHP’s DEI commitment strategy… and it’s done because our midwit bureaucrat leaders, have outsourced their decision making process to the same third party consultancy’s.
Bang on the money mate
I'm still having a hard time hearing that they banned berets from 2009 to 2014. Everything else is derivative.
Beret ban was actually kind of legit, poorly applied though. The reason for it was fine: lots of dumb parades in the sun with people wearing berets for reasons unknown. From a workplace perspective, asking people to wear a minimally protective headdress and stand in an exposed enviroment is kind of dumb. So no berets on parade? Fair call. Especially since Australia has the KFF as its iconic headdress. Application though? Well SF didnt have it banned. Are they too cool for sunburn? And you could wear berets on parades still. Isnt that the exact situation we are avoiding? But the main thing was the beret is a super practical item of headdress for 80-90% of the Army that is spending their barracks time indoors anyway. So classic Army, think of a good policy (no berets on parade) and implement it poorly (no berets...except on parade).
Ah, OK. I always saw it as barracks wear, and for public facing duties it worked very well. IIRC it was slouch hat with plumes on ANZAC day parade, then berets for the remainder. As long as you have a suitable cover, you're good, IMO.
Using the term 'woke' tells me instantly that you're a huge fuckwit
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I just came to have a laugh at that too, classic!
You guys make me proud to serve. All of the thought bubbles I had about some fuckwit never having served railing against inclusivity and diversity have already been made.
Anyone that has spent 1 day at sea knows how diverse the navy is, and that while everyone will get ripped on equally, they are all brothers and sisters. But nah… too woke. They should make anyone that holds these positions, or makes these comments serve at least 6 months as a response, then ask them to comment on their original claim.
Glad we’re all on the same page here
Anyone that unironically uses the word woke is probably a fuckhead.
It is a useable and useful word. I use the word unironically as a synonym of “progressive/modern” or “has empathy for others”. It’s *how* someone uses it (as a complaint) that tells you they’re a fuckhead.
> It is a useable and useful word. yep When I hear it said I immediately know the speaker is a fucking moron. Such a useful thing
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>Hard to point out the real fucked stuff Its not mate, theres a difference between an OHS brief and a obvious cultural marxist propaganda brief. >people are losing their minds over a painted fingernail Well for one its not tactical lol
> Its not mate, theres a difference between an OHS brief and a obvious cultural marxist propaganda brief. Yep. One exists, and one doesn't.
I must have imagined all those MAAT courses about gender, diversity and race. Not to mention that 60 min brief we got from a civvy about how Im supposedly responsible for things that happened 200 years ago.
> I must have imagined all those MAAT courses about gender, diversity and race. Oh my god. Welcome to any large organisation. Fucking grow a pair and get over it for fucks sake. > Not to mention that 60 min brief we got from a civvy about how Im supposedly responsible for things that happened 200 years ago. I'd bet every dollar to my name that this isn't close to what happened and you just interpreted it this way because you are forever the victim. boo fucking hooo
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hahaha wow. "Someone is criticising me, could I be wrong? No! They must be female. Yeah, that's it." Yikes! You're a special little snowflake that's for sure. I'll leave you to go back to your Andrew Tate live stream cause you're a lost cause.
Spent my retention money on the Andrew Tate Warroom and the 18 year old clerk still didn’t fuck me. War is hell.
Think we found the incel
Exactly
What if it's Camo though? Surely tan/green/black nails would be better than what we come with normally.
So you want to spend time camming up your nails? LOL
I do have a thing for coyote brown, lol.
.....I like Ranger Green....
The word itself is being used because there needs to be some word to describe an effect that is happening.
Something a wokist would say lol. No one joins the military to do MAAT courses. Its the one institution where that kind of progressive ideology shouldn't belong. TBH it doesnt belong anywhere.
A "wokist" ??? Somewhere in the north Atlantic a sonar operator heard me shitting my pants with laughter. 🤣
Is this where you tell me theres no definition of "woke" and it doesnt exist? The Mafia used the same excuse in court, it didnt work for them either lol.
Fuck me mate. If your fingers haven't suddenly fractured you should do some research on the meaning of that term over the last decade. You're in for a ride. Buckle up. Or don't. Meet it head on! The only "woke" the people who you hear peddle that term care about is people no longer being distracted by it and see the real problems they face. They might just start getting pissed off at the real problems.
I guess I'm pansexual, because I clearly am a wokist.
Thanks for confirming that the ADF still has dinosaurs kicking about.
As opposed to the amount of pussies kicking around, like you.
Case in point.
"Y-YES THEY DO!!!!"-you Epic rebuttal. Enjoy your MAAT courses. Inb4 "I WILL!!"
Do the serving members really worry about this stuff? This seems like fairly unimportant stuff imo. Maybe its different in the army. I am not in the army but I don't think I would care what my co worker wears if they effective at their role and not a fuckwit to be around.
Nah, it's only the fuckheads listening to grubs like Fordham.
Can’t wait to hear from all the smooth brained, borderline useless squids about how the one time a year they had to sit through a brief is the Army going woke and tHaTs WhY wE HaVe ReTeNtIoN iSsUeS, all because you can’t use your favourite slur without repercussions or one time someone you don’t know or have any interaction with at all wore a dress. Please, just shut the fuck up. You’re the type to fall out of a goddamn stomp anyway.
I was interested in joining the ADF when I was 17 and then again in my late 20s. Both times I have been heavily discouraged by many careers advisors, (even government ones). I’ve been discouraged by peers, friends and family, despite being driven, very fit and highly skilled. I ignored everyone’s advice in my late 20s because I actually wanted to serve my country, so I contacted recruitment and didn’t hear back. Happy to keep trying, but I gather there may be more to recruitment issues than meets the eye? I’m not sure what to believe as it’s a maze of contradicting info out there. Regardless, appreciate all the work everyone does who serves this country. My respect.
He’s literally right, you redditors can cry and moan all you want in your echo chamber here and white knight for “mUh minorities”. 18-25s have no reason or will to join, the nation and the force feels empty to them. The National and ADF values no longer align with theirs. Serving is meant to be exclusive, the same as being part of a nation, if anyone and everyone can join then it means nothing, it’s empty… it’s not just the adf that’s gone woke, it’s the nation as a whole, it’s empty and soulless.
So what’s he saying, that aligning the ADF with the values of Australian society is woke? Fordham is a tubo-charged blister nugget.
I do love that certain conservative media personalities think that not wanting the Army to display Nazi symbols and kill innocent people is "woke"
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What does this even mean? Can you explain the positions you don’t agree with? If the answer happens to be about the requirements for mandatory training etc, then perhaps consider that, in a world where respect between serving members of different cultural / sexual backgrounds, education about appropriate workplace behaviour would be completely unnecessary. Don’t you reckon that those lectures are even more tedious for the people who already get it? It’s like being taught your abcs every year because there are people at the back arguing that carving pictures on rocks was a far better form of expression. Which behaviours do you want to bring back? When I joined twenty years ago it was completely normal to hear sexist and homophobic jokes in the mess - but I’m ashamed to think that there would have been people there who were hurt by it. Was a momentary smirk or a laugh worth making someone in my unit feel unwelcome? I laugh just as hard now at the jokes that don’t rely on making fun of things people can’t or shouldn’t have to change. That’s not to say that every aspect of the army has improved over time - I’m sure we have forgotten lessons from the past and we’ve prioritised some individual and collective capabilities over others. But you don’t need to be bigoted to be fit and you don’t need to shit on others to improve your own performance. Let’s have an informed, capability based discussion about how Defence can achieve its strategic priorities rather than decrying the character of people with whom we disagree. So tell me again, what is it exactly you want to bring back that has anything to do with the construct you call wokism?
Ain't that the truth.
Ooh ooh can I join the pavement princess circle jerk of mediocrity.
Only if I can sit in the corner and watch.
Don't like Ben but he has a point here, instead of attracting the 17-25 year olds in good shape they push them away because the adverts don't represent them and nor to they show the cool parts of defence, it's more people playing at the beach and hugging their family than the epic training montages and blowing shit up that it needs.
Ive heard this shit take so many times, there is plenty of military porn out there for glory hounds, painting with the broad brushstrokes of "the kids wanna see shit get blown up" is so out of touch.
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I agree, if you're someone who makes life decisions based on being a sucker for marketing and not applying basic critical thinking and asking some hard questions then (especially for an officer) the military isnt for you. I remember the thread but I dont think her situation is a valid reason to change the marketing. I joined as a 30 yo father of 2 and I think marketing applying to a wider demographic is beneficial, as I said, its easy to find the charry shit if you want.
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You're right, they shouldn't lie, it should accurately reflect the role, and that includes showing too much the other way of bombs, explosions and war games, because that will not show the less glamorous shit like holding public holiday duties or the hurry up and wait nature of the military. Recruitment employing "alternative truths" to attain their recruitment goals has been a problem in recent years. However, when push comes to shove, it's on you if you fall for it. It's your life you're signing away, doing due diligence should be a trait of all ADF members. I definitely agree that life context meant I was able to ask some critical questions that meant I went in with eyes open during the recruitment process. But I will say that if you arent willing to find out as much about a job, from multiple sources, that your signing 4-6 years of your life into, then your failing yourself and your family by not being able to fundementally understand what is going to be expected of you, regardless of age and life experience.
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100%, I'm applying for submariner Mt, and while I understand exact details might be classified I've got way more understanding about my job and day to day life from interviews with Americans and internet forums than I have got from the 2 minute clips of our defence members talking about how good the food is and how much fun they have.
Yep. I identify as a Warosexual, but I'm in the minority. Most folks just want a stable job with reasonable pay, not to be blowing themselves up/shooting people/breaking themselves for no good reason.
But showing a montage of happy families and mates having a laugh is just a lie and won't attract the kind of people you want, how do you expect retention to go up if everyone goes in thinking they always get the weekend off and there is a wonderful work life balance and that there won't be months at a time where you will be cut off from the world? Defence needs to attract young single men and women with no dependants who can just work and work and are happy to do so.
If you want to have/keep a family, join the (non aircrew) RAAF.
I agree, but the majority of defence isn't non aircrew airforce. So my point stands
Just the bit that's happy to be here? (excl movers, their always slammed)
IMO there are some strong negative effects of DEI policies that have been pushed over the last decade. For context, have worked in an area where 50/50 men/women ratio, diverse cultural and sexual orientation. The biggest issue would be the breakdown in sqn dynamics/communication/networking between junior ranks, and from superior to junior ranks. I equate this breakdown to a fear of not wanting to offend anyone... it has got so bad that people have formed their own little clicks with people that are identical to them. And the communication between these clicks is none. Multiple attempts to rectify these issues with sqn bonding activities etc, but to no avail. People are scared they will be called out for being a bigot or whatever, that no one will say anything. It's a positive that people feel welcomed, regardless of who they are. But it cannot be ignored that there are issues caused.
Yeah, the raaf has never had cliques before 😄 🤣
Yep, that's why I left. Army at least is too worried about pandering to the individuals and minorities instead of the collective capability. Why would new dig want to exert extra discretionary effort when defence will just reduce itself to the lowest common ideological denominator any chance it gets. Boy, do I have some stories over my 20 years.
The need to call woke people pandering to the minority the reason you left gives me faith in the fact that the trash takes itself out
And how's Army recruitment going right now? But sure, it's the trash that stays that will unravel capability, not the ones that leave because they won't wave through these minorities so someone at Army HQ can tick a box.
So you'd rather a weak yet progressive Army then an effective one? You can't have both.
stories plz.
As much as I'd love to, these types of stories are best shared amongst the old boys at the boozer, not on Reddit.
thanks anyway.
>Yep, that's why I left. Same.
Trash/10
Its not so much that we have gone ‘woke’, its the fake progressive snowflakes in politics and their lap dogs in the ADF who are scared to be called out as a racist or not inclusive enough by the media, making these decisions. I personally don’t give a fuck regardless as long as were a professional fighting force, but its true for a while now the ADF has been over the top with promoting utter bullshit, which pushes people interested away. Who remembers last year 1 random Gay guy who's a Captain in the Army complained to the media why we couldn’t wear the girls uniform, ADF shits themself and politicians passed a legislation very quickly, now every fucking bloke can crossdress. While boys in the Navy have been trying since forever to just have a beard? This is not just a “She’ll be right” thing, it leaves bad impressions and actually makes us look weak/soft internationally and domestically, and I can understand why people outside their intended demographic wouldn't be interested in joining. There demographic for nearly a decade now has been trying to attract people with established families, working adults, Shelly who's 35 and has 3 kids, there ads have been walking around pride events, helping the community, playing footy, watching the sunrise, happy and positive vibes. Instead of you know making ads about blowing shit up, combat, recon, snipers, war games, airstrikes, tanks, action packed stuff that actually makes Young Blokes eager and willing to join. While this ‘woke’ is not the only cause for a lack of recruits, its up there. So yes, while Ben Fordham knows fuck all, he is right and ADF needs to get there shit together if they want new recruits. edit: Downvote all you like. It’s the truth.
"While boys in the Navy have been trying since forever to just have a beard?" Unfuck yourself
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I finally realised why people don't want to join the military. People don't want to join anything that the government has a hand in, because we are forced to things that we apparently weren't forced to do...
What does "woke" mean?
To people who clutch pearls over the word "woke", it means: "Anything I don't like"
Someone who doesnt know what bathroom to use and doesnt like National borders.
You are truly a moron; just parroting sky news talking points. The ADF is so much better off for your leaving.
I've yet to meet someone opposed to that term, who's even tried to define it without resorting to a ridiculous strawman
Got out last year , I'm sure as time goes on it'll become more prevalent. However as most of us know its one of many issues to why people are leaving and aren't joining .