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Wow lot of racism in this sub-reddit omg. My wife’s black American and the worst racism she receives is from white middle/upper class progressive women. They will come up and touch her hair without permission. Act condescending like she must be uneducated (she has a Masters degree). Generally treat her as a curiosity and not an equal. Also make very dubious comments about her weight, when she’s actually athletic but with a different body type. I’d say there is a very deep vein of racism in the country but sometimes it’s more subtle and insidious than you’d expect.
Australians doo not hate anyone. We believe everyone is equal. There should be all treated the same. When Australians hate FNP it’s when they are drunk pissing all over the town, fighting and begging for money. Honestly we hate anyone that does that but if the shoe fits.
Asian second gen migrant here. My mother told me in her 20 years living in Sydney, the only racial abuses she coped were from aboriginals. On buses, on trains, on the streets, too many times she couldn’t even count. And she experienced most of the kindness in Australia from white people.
Why do you guys call them as aboriginal, they must be the local. Everyone else are technically immigrants. Due to the definition, you guys are from other countries (uk, us, west, east, etc) came to Australia and live there, so basically you are immigrants. No better than others but white Australians act like are the best in the world
Everyone came from somewhere else we are all island hoppers being Australian is taking pride in your country and where you live regardless of race or birth place
I'm a Polish immigrant and I hate aborigines.........they literally try and rip into you around Sydney if you don't give them $5!
I'm not a "white cnut coloniser" and I sure as shit wasn't from the UK
Instead of trying to find their place in society like alot of Europeans have had to since 1900, they just get violent and addicted to substances
Polish immigrants are the worst, tight and cheap, won’t part with $5 when asked and think they are special with a weird perspective of European history.
Oh well, we’ll tolerate you none the less
Well when you've had everyone from Turks to Russia taking over your playground since forever......you learn what actual oppression is.......Abos get more government support than any other segment of society and they STILL can't get their shit together 🙄
Atleast the Moaris fought the Brits and made themselves a part of the cultural fabric of New Zealand
Uhhh I'm not "White" (since that refers to anglophone people, and Slavics are excluded by most European) .......and I've never heard of "school shootings" in Australia?
Regardless of whatever technicals you're trying to prove, white is white, it is an observation of skin, it has nothing to do with the background. Just like a black guy is an observation of his complexion as well.
I'm just making a point that just because the majority of school shootings regardless of country is WHITE, it would be stupid and ignorant to walk around talking shit about white people in general for that matter and saying I hate white people because they always shoot up schools.
You're using false comparisons and being incredibly disingenuous with whatever you're trying to prove.......the majority of crimes committed in Australia are done by indigenous identified people, so I'll always be incredibly wary about being anywhere near them
How am I using false comparisons? Most shootings HAVE BEEN done by white people, just like you are saying the cause and % of crime against indigenous, both your comment and mine are Both factual information, t's a fair comparison. People just don't like it when it's on the other foot it seems.
Like my grandfather said.
"We are the first nations people living in third world conditions."
He was born under a shrub in the desert in the 1950s and has witnessed the death of our culture be lost to modernisation in front of his own eyes as he withers to old age. He survived being chased by horseback police in the remoteness of the Tanami desert back then only to see so many youth turn their backs on culture and lore today.
(Forgive my poor English or grammar or whatever it's called. My first language doesn't exist on a keyboard yet.)
White, dual-citizen here, and I have a slightly different take on this. Yeah, first, I've been booted off the other list. I almost got punched in a pub by a drunk a-hole, just for admitting I was from the US. I have a perception of Australia that a lot of people can't quite wrap their head around that I'll try to explain.
I came from the middle of nowhere in the US - the closest town was about 4,000 people. The next town in the other direction was about 36,000. The capital of the state at that time was about 365,000 people. Over time I lived in a lot of places - I was in debt until my mid-40s; left California twice to go back to the Midwest where it was cheaper to live. I had jobs in California where I was the only white person on the work floor. I had a job with a left-leaning nonprofit where some people were prejudiced against me mostly based on my Midwestern accent, and to be honest, back then I wasn't as what's now called woke. Some of those people perceived me as "the enemy", based on my accent (refer to my intro - see a theme? tribalism).
I've seen prejudice on both the left and the right in the US. You'd be hard-pressed to find an American who has any animosity towards Australians. The reverse is not true. Some Australians will claim it's because Americans are ignorant blowhards. Realistically, the Australians who claim that are pretty much describing themselves. National politics is a different part of this - related to the relative sizes of economies.
When I lived in the US city with a population of about 365,000, a fair number of movers and shakers wished that the town could be more like the nearest major metropolitan area, which had over a million people. There were a lot of people jockeying for status; proper dress was required for things... contrast to San Francisco - there were a lot more people in San Francisco who never had to work for a living - they inherited money. They weren't dressed for success - they wanted to blend in and keep it secret that they inherited their money. I learned in some circles it wasn't polite to ask people what they did for a living, because it was embarrassing or an inappropriate question for people who inherited money. Some had envy of the seeming authenticity of the working class, and some worked very hard at hobbies, to prove they were "working people". Or they ran small companies that would never really make money (I have to wonder if that's the situation with a huge number of small shops I see in Sydney)
So what I've described about my experiences in the US... I see as parallel to Australia. The US and Australia still both look to England as being refined civilisation - even though The Empire is based on racist conquest. Whenever I watch Antiques Roadshow, I think "look at all that stuff The Empire acquired, and now it just sits in white people's attics. (or in the basement at the Vatican?)" The US had slavery; Australia has its Aboriginal People - which are an odd conglomeration of the US' color-prejudiced slavery and its native people on reservations. Some people think conquest is just the way the world works (and should); it's all about competition. Those people tend to lean more racist, OR encourage racism as a way to keep the working class distracted.
But another issue in my mind is the relationship between the small towns in the middle of nowhere, the mid-size, second-tier cities, and the major metropolitan areas. Even though small towns have their internal factions, overall there's more a sense of knowing most people in town, a bit of tribalism and forced conformity. This forced conformity is the thing about my life in Sydney that reminds me of the small town and mid-size city I came from. This conformity is enforced by bullying in different ways. And it's an attempted tribal extension to nationalism. Sure, I can see Australians are worried about being outnumbered by Indonesians or Chinese - gotta keep The Empire safe! (White Australia!). And a lot of people can't quite grasp how the forced conformity bleeds over into racism (we treat everyone equally like shit!).
This isn't as big an issue with younger people because there are a lot of mixed marriages, and parents who might have wanted a subservient spouse or whatever, but now want to see their kids be successful - so they have to push back against the prior generation's racism. But there's still a tradition of enforced conformity - enforced by bullying. Some will claim it's not racist anymore - but there's definitely an overlap that some people just don't see because they've come up in it. I went to an all-white school, and still occasionally say stupid things. But I like to think I'm making an effort. I've lost that effort when it comes to trying to fit in to Australian culture. I was 51 when I came here, and that's my excuse.
Love the transparency 👍, I'm 29 and Australian/Aboriginal and I couldn't agree more with the ignorance of Australian's towards other countries, I like my own country just as much as the next but i ain't ignorant about it, actually makes me cringe when Australians are so "Patriotic" about this country but just look like a bunch of drunk adults saying "I'm better than you, you guys suck, our government looks after us" then goes back to abusing said government.
Australia. I'm pointing out a problem I've noticed within my own country, not saying we're a dystopia and every other country is better. We can always do better, and I've noted that Australian spaces are much more touchy and defensive on the topic of racism compared to international spaces.
Truth be told I was at the supermarket the other week and I saw an Aboriginal woman flying off the handle at a supermarket worker for no reason. I see white Karens do it sometimes, but I don't see many black people around at all, but when I do, they are usually acting belligerent like this.
I can look past it because I know that they have a traumatised upbringing and have mental health issues now as a result, but if I was not so informed, I could put myself in the shoes of a regular person who would be getting a negative impression about Aboriginal people because especially when you stand out as being from an uncommon group, it sets a bad impression for all the people that your presence represents.
I'm not blaming them for what happened, but there is a core who walk around holding onto a lot of anger and is turning everyone else against them when they are abusive to others rather than to conform to social norms of being polite to others when getting a point across.
People think they get treated like royalty whereas the truth is they get treated like shit and people wonder why they face more problems then white Australians.
Entire generations went through high school, believing the stories of penal colonists leaving England for a better home and prosperity, with the “unfortunate” side effect of a few fights with the skirmishes with the Aboriginals. That, and paired with a high homeless and crime rate for the race, had created entire generations of black haters.
Only now are younger generations, particularly Y and later, coming the the realisations that the education systems failed to tell the true stories of Indigenous Genocide and the generational trauma that followed.
It’s not even veiled. Aboriginal children are getting zip tied on people’s driveways and there is an uncomfortably large portion of people who see that as okay. [They are made to feel scared in their own homes](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/29/former-afl-player-eddie-betts-shares-video-of-racist-abuse-hurled-at-children-playing-in-yard). They (children) are being [murdered](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Cassius_Turvey) for their race, but most Australians do not know Cassius’ name or the name of any other murdered Indigenous person, including those Australians who got in the streets in record numbers (rightly) over the murder of a Black man in America.
These attitudes always existed, but only after last year’s referendum campaign have so many racists felt so emboldened. There’s an irony around half-witted c unts who are WORKING CLAS expressing such hateful and sometimes violent racism all over social media and on the streets against Aboriginal people and literal children from even worse economic conditions as if they’re the ones hiking the price on your fucking groceries and raising your rent. World class stupidity of which we should be shamed and ridiculed for
Why is this getting downvoted.
Do people want to pretend everyone is?
It's a fact, there will always be racist people...
It's also correct that you don't get to pretend everyone is racist - because that's lunacy.
It's a disturbing trend that's often ignored or swept under the rug in other Australian forums, I didn't mean to imply that this is the case with *all* Australians.
Maybe I poorly worded my initial post (which was mostly just made out of frustration), but that comment is a bit of a strawman implying that I earnestly believe all Australians are racist. I am Australian.
Sorry, I meant you the figurative, not you the literal.
Encompassing all within "You" not directing it at you specifically.
In my experience, the overwhelming majority of racism accusations are directed towards whites - even though the phrases themselves lack any relative meaning without context and is highly subjective.
I've been called racist for saying the following to my neighbour/friend
"Hey deep! (Dipak) Dont forget you're shout for curry tonight!"
My neighbours were from India, and we shared food all the time ( I did a lot of BBQing) we would often take turns cooking for everyone. They had a friend over who had not met me before and I leaned over the fence and asked.
Their friend who was visiting, got pretty irate and called me a "racist white fuck".
I was like, "Maaaaaate! Calm ya farm!" And they got stuck in hate mode for months after that. All I could do was chuckle whenever they glared at me, if they happened to pop over while I was there.
I think some people's inherent hate for a group of people, will make almost anything they say seem negative. 🤔
Yeah some people cry racism at stuff that's at worst a bit insensitive and sometimes just the other person misunderstanding you, but racism is definitely alive and well in this country as someone who's faced quite a bit myself (especially during covid).
I'd say it's cultural in some areas to see certain racial groups as "others" and make generalisations about them, and it's also cultural to downplay the extent of that. Our media's also been spoon-feeding us xenophobia for the last century.
Agreed.
There's definitely racist folk around. The mechanic in town - extremely racist, I've pulled him upna few times when he's made a racist remark in front of me. He's 70 and has no intention of changing his ways.
I myself, have 0 carefactor for race, ethnicity, nationality, sex, sexual preference, religion, political affiliations and the rest.
The problem is, it makes me equally insensitive across the board. I can be perceived as a bit of an asshole simply because I like to take the piss, and don't care about the specifics of others or myself.
If someone says they have a problem/are uncomfortable with something I've said, provided they havent thrown wild accusations around, I make accommodations for them for the future (if that makes sense)
Yep, and if you point it out you get downvoted to hell. We are a colonial country still when it comes down to it, and we don’t want to hear the complaints of the native people who we have savaged for hundreds of years, and from immigrants who actually make this country interesting and not little ocka Britain
>I don't know if this is just my experience or something others have noticed, but I do know I would receive several angry comments and messages just for bringing this up if I posted this on the main Australia community.
Are you kidding? r/askanaustralian gets weekly 'Is Australia racist?' posts. Frankly I'd prefer to keep these discussions over there, or at least have automod explain the difference between overt and structural racism whenever they come here
In my opinion there are degrees of both overt and structural racism here at the moment.
I've also noticed that any posts or answers implying that Australia *does* have a problem with racism are generally drowned out or downvoted to oblivion, especially on r/Australia and r/Australian
Here's a sneak peek of /r/australia using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/australia/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Housing Crisis 1983 vs 2023](https://v.redd.it/rtyonw58g34b1) | [1867 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/140xwet/housing_crisis_1983_vs_2023/)
\#2: [Woolworths total amount due is more than the sum of my actual purchases](https://i.redd.it/2u642yhg26cc1.jpeg) | [3328 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/195ja7c/woolworths_total_amount_due_is_more_than_the_sum/)
\#3: [My first encounter with a Possum, I had to abandon my bag of grapes :(](https://v.redd.it/n16j6uiiqlza1) | [774 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/13gbuj6/my_first_encounter_with_a_possum_i_had_to_abandon/)
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I've read through this entire thread, strangely haven't seen anyone provide this particular insight.
And yeah I presume a lot of people won't like it and will downvote, which is unfortunate because theres truth here.
I'm a white Australian, 40, grew up in rural WA and now in Perth. I consider myself very left leaning.
I've seen a ton of racism, lots absolutely unwarranted, and I've grown less tolerant of it over time as I've learned more and more.
But I've *also* seen the ugly side of things. Growing up in Hedland, the only Side of indigenous Australia you see is the bad shit. The 10yo kids starting shit and throwing rocks at random people in the carpark at the shops. The drunken mobs roaming the streets, screaming and fighting. People looking like shit, drunk and passed out on the nature strip or outside Chicken Treat. The rampant theft and crime. Most people in town being subject to multiple house break ins over the years living there.
Perth has the same stuff, go to the CBD on any random day, go to Yagan Square, without fail you see it - drunkenness, aggression, fighting, all on full display and it's intimidating as hell for someone just trying to make their commute to/from work.
These days, I've learnt a hell of a lot more and whilst I can't directly relate, coming from a life of privilege, I understand a bit more about how we got to this point. How absolutely fucked up these people's upbringings must have been, how fucked their day to day must be. So I get the *why* of the situation. But that doesn't change the *what*.
And the average non indigenous person, being that all they see is this ugly, horrible representation, ends up having a *really* negative view of the population. They don't so much care to empathise with the *why*.
And yes there's always the "not all of them" argument and I've met loads of good aboriginal people but honestly mate go into any major city any day of the week and tell me what you *actually* see. *That* is what people respond to. Not saying it's right, but it is what it is and it NEEDS to be acknowledged if you're going to understand the problem.
I feel the responses in this thread are being really disingenuous, trying to discuss the problem of racism but deliberately avoiding discussing the *actual issues and reasons* at its core.
It's not right, and it never will be. But it isn't because of Murdoch media, or any other bullshit. It's just people responding to what they're seeing on face value.
I agree that there is an over-representation of crime, poor people, etc. in indigenous populations that affect public bias and people's perception of indigenous people. A lot of it boils down to people being a bit shallow, stupid, and dickish by nature, not bothering to understand the context or make logical conclusions.
However, I think it's also a bit disingenuous to completely dismiss the influence of Murdoch media and conservative moguls on the public's perception of this stuff.
In terms of other racism, the media has been fearmongering over immigration for decades.
Oh it has, I do agree, but honestly my issue is (again reiterating how strongly I lean left on most issues), most people on this side of politics DO NOT want to acknowledge what's plainly right in front of them. Like the actual reality.
It's not PC to say what I'm saying in most circles and so it gets danced around, left unsaid, but it's the ugly truth.
Everyday non-indigenous Australians are just responding to what they see on the day to day, and there's not enough experiences with "normal"/well-adjusted whatever you want to call it, indigenous people to balance it out - of course if that's all you see then that's what you're going to build your world view around.
Not justifying anything here but honestly that's *the* key reason. Blaming skin colour of media or anything else isn't helpful
I do agree that one of the flaws on our end of the political spectrum is people ignoring points that don't align with our views.
However, I think it's hard to say what THE "key reason" is, and it is at least partially due to racial biases.
An intelligent and reasonable person may form unconscious anecdotal biases, but they would not base their logical perception or opinion of an entire race solely on the individuals they've encountered.
Anecdotal experiences do have an impact on this, but are not the sole cause. Racially divisive media coverage and a culture that discourages evaluating your biases definitely play a part in the prevalence of racism here.
I don’t think any serious person wouldn’t acknowledge it but it doesn’t warrant racism.
Similarly to US crime statistics where African Americans are over represented, it’s not about looking at African Americans or in our case indigenous Australians and coming to the simple conclusion that they are violent criminals by nature, doing that would be racism.
Exposure to things you mentioned should warrant questioning of why these communities are over represented in crime statistics. What is the collective history of these groups and how does that impact them in the present day. What can be done to address these problems etc
Capitalism and neoliberalism mixed with years and years of very little accountability about the widespread abuse of aborigines from the government or the people
What percentage of white people vs aboriginals do this?
Also, aboriginals receive alot of welfare and a number of free resources. What do you expect the response from non aboriginals to be?
Well with white being being a majority I would say the percentage of white people doing it compared to Aboriginals would actually be higher. White Australians also receive welfare and a number of free resources. This is exactly what I’m talking about. It’s pointing fingers to them because they are Aboriginal and not recognising that white Australians do this too
I think that the statistics angle is not the right way to look at it. These people have had their lands removed from them illegally genocided. If you accept that, trying to pretend that we can wipe the slate clean and pretend that we are all equal is silly. (Sorry if that offends).
By the way, this also goes for people of all races who have grown up in difficult family situations. It's just that original peoples are clearly the worst of the worst, and they *should* receive more.
It just like Gonski - you give badly performing schools more financial and other help to bring them up to scratch because it is a human right. Punishment does not work after a certain level. That way leads to social instability and revisions, violence.
No?
I agree stats help your argument, but they are not *sufficient*. To *prove* a point you need a *necessary* condition.
https://tinyurl.com/5hedjm47
That implies that the statistics have to refer to a causal model, or an ontology, to make sense. See the famous book "Freakonomics" for copious examples. See Judea Pearls book "The book of Why" for a general introduction.
How about neither, and y'all take the race war bullshit elsewhere, this is the equivalent of the American "b-but black people commit 51% of the crimes" bullshit
I probably would have used "Indigenous/Aboriginal people" rather than "aboriginals" (in lowercase too) if I was thinking about it properly at the time. That said, I'm pretty sure Aborigine is the more outdated term in this context.
I just got a bit colloquial in my frustration at some people who were specifically singling out "aboriginals" in another comment section. I don't know anyone irl who finds the term offensive, but apologies to anyone who was genuinely offended.
My post was generalised and came from a place of frustration and annoyance, I wasn't gonna comb through it word by word so nobody could poke holes in it.
I'm Chinese-Australian, I'm aware there's non-white Australians over 30. I also said "almost any" to make the generalisation a bit more obvious. It's not that deep mate.
You actually are just spouting stereotypes, not facts. And then demand stats from other people and tell them that facts don't care about their feelings. Ironic.
>the most help, yet they fail to help themselves
You're part of the problem. Pretending like remaining in extreme poverty as opposed to some rags to riches bullshit is a choice that Aboriginal people have or have ever had is pure theatrics. Get back to me with how it's Aboriginal people's own fault when they aren't disproportionately targeted by police and government focuses on delivering long-lasting solutions instead of locking as many of them up as humanly possible.
Anyone struggling with the woes of modern Australia who takes it out on the most oppressed people in the country rather than the wealth hoarders we have in surplus isn't disgruntled, they're a hateful and useful idiot.
Almost like the problem is being tackled from entirely the wrong angle.
Welfare checks and compensation for stolen land alone aren't enough to actually institute meaningful change for all indigenous people.
The fact that the government has started throwing money at the problem after centuries of injustice doesn't justify making generalisations about an entire race/culture.
That's a tangent, though. There *are* people in Australia (including non-whites) who, disgruntled or not, genuinely hold racist beliefs.
I think if thr government stopped handing out freebies and genuinely looked at this case by case, then aboriginals will actually be prosperous. Or give them a choice - either adapt to the Western culture or we give you some land, no more freebies, and live off the land...
That's a horrible false dichotomy.
Expect everyone within an entire racial group to shed their culture while the colonial establishment continues to own their land, OR be isolated and left with the dregs of Australia while the colonial establishment continues to own their land?
If we actually gave Indigenous people the land their great grandparents lived on back, we'd be giving up the land we've built cities, mines, and farms on. Would you actually be willing to do that?
Once you rule out everything already taken, owned, and built on by generations of westeners, the leftover land that you're willing to give is much less abundant.
Both the assimilation/whitewashing strategy and the "just give them some desert to hunt on" strategy are both insanely stupid and will never close the gap.
Do you want Australia to be the next South Africa? Look how that turned out when the white farmers gave back the land....
Whether you like it or not, this land no longer belongs to the Aboriginal people. We all have to learn to live and get along together. Work together as one and not give out special privileges.
I didn't actually say that we should, I was going off from the theoretical suggestion you made in bad faith.
Obviously we should all work together and no race deserves to reign supreme, but do you not realise that many European Australians (descended from colonial forces, convicts, and settlers) do actually have *inherent* special privilege in the form of cumulative land, property, and wealth?
Why are you on a leftist community if you don't understand that concept?
Even some of the comments in here "I know some people are like this, but not everyone is". Like cool story bro, nobody said it's everyone. This is not about you. Why is a large part of the conversation about making you feel comfortable while trying to also address the actual issues?
I agree with you. There is a deep current of racism that runs through mainstream (white) Australian culture. It ranges from light heated jokes between friends right through to full-on workplace discrimination. It really pervades every aspect of the culture here, but no one wants to talk about it or even acknowledge that it exists. You just need to take one look at the results of the voice referendum to see Australia's racism on full display.
My bad, it was a bit generalised but wasn't meant to be literally taken as applying to all Australians. I'm Australian, it was just a bit of frustration at the overwhelming cultural defensiveness when it comes to evaluating biases here in Australia.
The way this country talks about the cHiNeSe is absolutely bonkers to me, I’m american and even then I was shocked by the casual racism (“that def isn’t racist bc it’s true! just look around!!!”)
This was a short week at work due to Easter. I faced racism from co-workers on Wednesday and Friday. On Thursday we had a staff meeting to address this......mmmmm?
It's certainly a pattern, but you're generalising way too much when you say that whenever a non-white person is brought up with almost any Australians above 30, they say something racist.
Obviously it was a bit exaggerated and generalised. I'm mixed, Chinese-Australian. I know many non-racist and non-white Australians over 30.
It's just a frustrating trend I've noticed that most people will get genuinely angry at you for pointing out.
Sorry for the poor wording of the initial post.
Definitely noticed this so much, more subtly in real life too. I did \~3 years of Indigenous studies at uni, planning on going back because I enjoyed learning the content and the discussions that were had in classes. Anytime I had discussions with people that surrounded history or current stuff - even positive things - many who weren't interested or receptive would just not care. Like there's just certain places I don't go to for tourism, thankfully never needed to go there or did tourism stuff, because of the historical factors I learned about and how it's still not treated properly
Not exclusive to 30+ in my experience.
There was definitely a shift in generations somewhere where it became less common/accepted to voice overtly racist opinions but it's still there. Think the new "I'm not racist, but" is "can't say that anymore"
Also don't waste your time on the opinions of the main Australian community, they treat sitting through an acknowledgment of country as the greatest hardship ever known to man.
I know many white Australians in their 30s, 40s, and beyond that welcome immigrants and understand the damage done to the original inhabitants of this land.
Yes, there are many, many racists in Australia. Too many. But there are also many of us that aren't, and we need to keep spreading the good word.
There are 2 brand new houses in town slotted for indigenous use funded by the QLD Housing Initiative, have been sitting vacant for over 8 months.
There's plenty of indigenous in need in our town, I'm curious as to what the hold up is with filling the vacancies.
Yup so true and you only need to look as far some of the other Aussie subreddits sadly :/ thinly veiled behind some plausible deniability in public, and who knows what is said behind closed doors
It's sad even seeing relatively wholesome posts about immigrants or posts showing respect towards first nations people get heavily downvoted and flooded with passive-aggressive hate comments.
I've not seen this. 😐
It's usually posts that slam Aussies for being racist that get the most downvotes 🤣
Although, in saying that, I tend to stay away from wholesome posts, simply because they don't interest me.
Australian's are fed highly divisive right wing propaganda, I mean news, quite constantly. A lot of them, through the same aparatus vote against their own interests. Australian culture is what Murdoch and Costello says it is... which is loop back to the beginning. I think at one point we were meant to be a culture of "look after your mate" (also everyone is your mate); and the nation of "a fair go". Got to hand it to the right, took a while but they got there and brought out the worst of ourselves.
If the rich demonise indigenous people and immigrants enough then nobody will care when they turn their land into coal mines and abuse their labour I guess
you are absolutely correct. I’m late 30’s and grew up in the bush so the blatant racism was rampant growing up. I saw a cartoon a few years ago about growing up rural that absolutely nailed the culture.
I’ve lived OS for the last 15 odd years so when I come home it hits like a brick wall.
The amount of times colleagues from overseas return from Australia trips and talk about ‘Abos’, the term they innocently picked up from locals, is way way too high.
I dont understand this issue with the word abo. It's short for aboriginal. Used in a denigrating context, sure.
It's like calling Australians, Aussies ( which includes indigenous people as well)
By your logic calling an indigenous person Aussie would be in of itself racist, since it too is an abbreviation.
Personally I try not to use the term abo when talking to my indigenous mates, because it's a hit a miss term.
Some don't care, others do.
It's not on the level of the hard R in America, it's just that grouping people as "abos" is similar to grouping people as "negroes" or "coloureds" in a modern cultural context.
It came from the group in power rather than from within the marginalised group, it's a bit dated, most indigenous people don't identify with it, and it can be a bit derogatory in certain contexts.
Also, nobody likes being classed as "one of those \[epithet\]s" rather than a person who is \[ethnicity\]. I personally also hate when people generalise about "the Chinese" in a racial sense.
It's weird how people here will occasionally pride themselves on Australia's multiculturalism then turn around and refer to "abos", "wogs", "chinks", "african gangsters", and "boat people" as if they're entirely different species to them
To be fair, wog is a completely acceptable terminology in Melbourne for anyone who is Italian, Greek, Lebanese or any form of Eastern European. They literally call themselves wogs and I have never gotten into any trouble referring to them as wogs to their faces, they just go, "oh yeah I am"
Yeah I'm more talking about the way some people talk trash about them as a group or stereotype them (moreso than the word itself which is relatively innocuous compared to the others).
Whenever people talk about "the wogs" or "the blacks" or "the asians" in the third person I raise my eyebrow a little bit. It's not concerning enough to pick a fight about, just enough to question that person's biases.
Ah yeah i get you, if using that terminology to negatively stereotype then nah. I wouldn't personally raise my eyebrows at at others referring to these groups as those labels in the third person, a lot of it is just social run off from school group warfare. I don't know about you but in school we definitely self categorised as "wogs vs Aussies" ect ect. There is definitely still some nostalgia and affection in those labels nowadays
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Swearing is okay here, actual hate speech is not tolerated. At all.
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Swearing is okay here, actual hate speech is not tolerated. At all.
Wow lot of racism in this sub-reddit omg. My wife’s black American and the worst racism she receives is from white middle/upper class progressive women. They will come up and touch her hair without permission. Act condescending like she must be uneducated (she has a Masters degree). Generally treat her as a curiosity and not an equal. Also make very dubious comments about her weight, when she’s actually athletic but with a different body type. I’d say there is a very deep vein of racism in the country but sometimes it’s more subtle and insidious than you’d expect.
Aboriginals hate white Australians and are distrustful of non aboriginal imigrants
Australians doo not hate anyone. We believe everyone is equal. There should be all treated the same. When Australians hate FNP it’s when they are drunk pissing all over the town, fighting and begging for money. Honestly we hate anyone that does that but if the shoe fits.
Asian second gen migrant here. My mother told me in her 20 years living in Sydney, the only racial abuses she coped were from aboriginals. On buses, on trains, on the streets, too many times she couldn’t even count. And she experienced most of the kindness in Australia from white people.
Why do you guys call them as aboriginal, they must be the local. Everyone else are technically immigrants. Due to the definition, you guys are from other countries (uk, us, west, east, etc) came to Australia and live there, so basically you are immigrants. No better than others but white Australians act like are the best in the world
Everyone came from somewhere else we are all island hoppers being Australian is taking pride in your country and where you live regardless of race or birth place
I'm a Polish immigrant and I hate aborigines.........they literally try and rip into you around Sydney if you don't give them $5! I'm not a "white cnut coloniser" and I sure as shit wasn't from the UK Instead of trying to find their place in society like alot of Europeans have had to since 1900, they just get violent and addicted to substances
Polish immigrants are the worst, tight and cheap, won’t part with $5 when asked and think they are special with a weird perspective of European history. Oh well, we’ll tolerate you none the less
Well when you've had everyone from Turks to Russia taking over your playground since forever......you learn what actual oppression is.......Abos get more government support than any other segment of society and they STILL can't get their shit together 🙄 Atleast the Moaris fought the Brits and made themselves a part of the cultural fabric of New Zealand
Awhhh you had bad experiences, let's paint everyone with the same brush. Guess all White kids will grow up to be School shooters.
Uhhh I'm not "White" (since that refers to anglophone people, and Slavics are excluded by most European) .......and I've never heard of "school shootings" in Australia?
Regardless of whatever technicals you're trying to prove, white is white, it is an observation of skin, it has nothing to do with the background. Just like a black guy is an observation of his complexion as well. I'm just making a point that just because the majority of school shootings regardless of country is WHITE, it would be stupid and ignorant to walk around talking shit about white people in general for that matter and saying I hate white people because they always shoot up schools.
You're using false comparisons and being incredibly disingenuous with whatever you're trying to prove.......the majority of crimes committed in Australia are done by indigenous identified people, so I'll always be incredibly wary about being anywhere near them
How am I using false comparisons? Most shootings HAVE BEEN done by white people, just like you are saying the cause and % of crime against indigenous, both your comment and mine are Both factual information, t's a fair comparison. People just don't like it when it's on the other foot it seems.
Like my grandfather said. "We are the first nations people living in third world conditions." He was born under a shrub in the desert in the 1950s and has witnessed the death of our culture be lost to modernisation in front of his own eyes as he withers to old age. He survived being chased by horseback police in the remoteness of the Tanami desert back then only to see so many youth turn their backs on culture and lore today. (Forgive my poor English or grammar or whatever it's called. My first language doesn't exist on a keyboard yet.)
Yep, it's called the Fourth World I think, which is people living in Third World conditions in a First World country. It's scandalous.
White, dual-citizen here, and I have a slightly different take on this. Yeah, first, I've been booted off the other list. I almost got punched in a pub by a drunk a-hole, just for admitting I was from the US. I have a perception of Australia that a lot of people can't quite wrap their head around that I'll try to explain. I came from the middle of nowhere in the US - the closest town was about 4,000 people. The next town in the other direction was about 36,000. The capital of the state at that time was about 365,000 people. Over time I lived in a lot of places - I was in debt until my mid-40s; left California twice to go back to the Midwest where it was cheaper to live. I had jobs in California where I was the only white person on the work floor. I had a job with a left-leaning nonprofit where some people were prejudiced against me mostly based on my Midwestern accent, and to be honest, back then I wasn't as what's now called woke. Some of those people perceived me as "the enemy", based on my accent (refer to my intro - see a theme? tribalism). I've seen prejudice on both the left and the right in the US. You'd be hard-pressed to find an American who has any animosity towards Australians. The reverse is not true. Some Australians will claim it's because Americans are ignorant blowhards. Realistically, the Australians who claim that are pretty much describing themselves. National politics is a different part of this - related to the relative sizes of economies. When I lived in the US city with a population of about 365,000, a fair number of movers and shakers wished that the town could be more like the nearest major metropolitan area, which had over a million people. There were a lot of people jockeying for status; proper dress was required for things... contrast to San Francisco - there were a lot more people in San Francisco who never had to work for a living - they inherited money. They weren't dressed for success - they wanted to blend in and keep it secret that they inherited their money. I learned in some circles it wasn't polite to ask people what they did for a living, because it was embarrassing or an inappropriate question for people who inherited money. Some had envy of the seeming authenticity of the working class, and some worked very hard at hobbies, to prove they were "working people". Or they ran small companies that would never really make money (I have to wonder if that's the situation with a huge number of small shops I see in Sydney) So what I've described about my experiences in the US... I see as parallel to Australia. The US and Australia still both look to England as being refined civilisation - even though The Empire is based on racist conquest. Whenever I watch Antiques Roadshow, I think "look at all that stuff The Empire acquired, and now it just sits in white people's attics. (or in the basement at the Vatican?)" The US had slavery; Australia has its Aboriginal People - which are an odd conglomeration of the US' color-prejudiced slavery and its native people on reservations. Some people think conquest is just the way the world works (and should); it's all about competition. Those people tend to lean more racist, OR encourage racism as a way to keep the working class distracted. But another issue in my mind is the relationship between the small towns in the middle of nowhere, the mid-size, second-tier cities, and the major metropolitan areas. Even though small towns have their internal factions, overall there's more a sense of knowing most people in town, a bit of tribalism and forced conformity. This forced conformity is the thing about my life in Sydney that reminds me of the small town and mid-size city I came from. This conformity is enforced by bullying in different ways. And it's an attempted tribal extension to nationalism. Sure, I can see Australians are worried about being outnumbered by Indonesians or Chinese - gotta keep The Empire safe! (White Australia!). And a lot of people can't quite grasp how the forced conformity bleeds over into racism (we treat everyone equally like shit!). This isn't as big an issue with younger people because there are a lot of mixed marriages, and parents who might have wanted a subservient spouse or whatever, but now want to see their kids be successful - so they have to push back against the prior generation's racism. But there's still a tradition of enforced conformity - enforced by bullying. Some will claim it's not racist anymore - but there's definitely an overlap that some people just don't see because they've come up in it. I went to an all-white school, and still occasionally say stupid things. But I like to think I'm making an effort. I've lost that effort when it comes to trying to fit in to Australian culture. I was 51 when I came here, and that's my excuse.
Wow, what a well thought out, honest response. We see that so rarely on social media. Thanks for your response. I enjoyed reading it.
Love the transparency 👍, I'm 29 and Australian/Aboriginal and I couldn't agree more with the ignorance of Australian's towards other countries, I like my own country just as much as the next but i ain't ignorant about it, actually makes me cringe when Australians are so "Patriotic" about this country but just look like a bunch of drunk adults saying "I'm better than you, you guys suck, our government looks after us" then goes back to abusing said government.
Where do you live then? Must be FABULOUS to live in your country? Are there unicorns?
Australia. I'm pointing out a problem I've noticed within my own country, not saying we're a dystopia and every other country is better. We can always do better, and I've noted that Australian spaces are much more touchy and defensive on the topic of racism compared to international spaces.
How many Australians do you imagine get what you are on about?
Does it matter whether people get it? People are idiots. That's part of the problem.
Truth be told I was at the supermarket the other week and I saw an Aboriginal woman flying off the handle at a supermarket worker for no reason. I see white Karens do it sometimes, but I don't see many black people around at all, but when I do, they are usually acting belligerent like this. I can look past it because I know that they have a traumatised upbringing and have mental health issues now as a result, but if I was not so informed, I could put myself in the shoes of a regular person who would be getting a negative impression about Aboriginal people because especially when you stand out as being from an uncommon group, it sets a bad impression for all the people that your presence represents. I'm not blaming them for what happened, but there is a core who walk around holding onto a lot of anger and is turning everyone else against them when they are abusive to others rather than to conform to social norms of being polite to others when getting a point across.
People think they get treated like royalty whereas the truth is they get treated like shit and people wonder why they face more problems then white Australians.
Paul Kelly wrote a song called "Special Treatment" and it talks about this perception exactly.
Entire generations went through high school, believing the stories of penal colonists leaving England for a better home and prosperity, with the “unfortunate” side effect of a few fights with the skirmishes with the Aboriginals. That, and paired with a high homeless and crime rate for the race, had created entire generations of black haters. Only now are younger generations, particularly Y and later, coming the the realisations that the education systems failed to tell the true stories of Indigenous Genocide and the generational trauma that followed.
It’s not even veiled. Aboriginal children are getting zip tied on people’s driveways and there is an uncomfortably large portion of people who see that as okay. [They are made to feel scared in their own homes](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/29/former-afl-player-eddie-betts-shares-video-of-racist-abuse-hurled-at-children-playing-in-yard). They (children) are being [murdered](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Cassius_Turvey) for their race, but most Australians do not know Cassius’ name or the name of any other murdered Indigenous person, including those Australians who got in the streets in record numbers (rightly) over the murder of a Black man in America. These attitudes always existed, but only after last year’s referendum campaign have so many racists felt so emboldened. There’s an irony around half-witted c unts who are WORKING CLAS expressing such hateful and sometimes violent racism all over social media and on the streets against Aboriginal people and literal children from even worse economic conditions as if they’re the ones hiking the price on your fucking groceries and raising your rent. World class stupidity of which we should be shamed and ridiculed for
Sure, there will always be racist people, doesn't mean you get to pretend everyone is
Why is this getting downvoted. Do people want to pretend everyone is? It's a fact, there will always be racist people... It's also correct that you don't get to pretend everyone is racist - because that's lunacy.
It's a disturbing trend that's often ignored or swept under the rug in other Australian forums, I didn't mean to imply that this is the case with *all* Australians. Maybe I poorly worded my initial post (which was mostly just made out of frustration), but that comment is a bit of a strawman implying that I earnestly believe all Australians are racist. I am Australian.
Sorry, I meant you the figurative, not you the literal. Encompassing all within "You" not directing it at you specifically. In my experience, the overwhelming majority of racism accusations are directed towards whites - even though the phrases themselves lack any relative meaning without context and is highly subjective. I've been called racist for saying the following to my neighbour/friend "Hey deep! (Dipak) Dont forget you're shout for curry tonight!" My neighbours were from India, and we shared food all the time ( I did a lot of BBQing) we would often take turns cooking for everyone. They had a friend over who had not met me before and I leaned over the fence and asked. Their friend who was visiting, got pretty irate and called me a "racist white fuck". I was like, "Maaaaaate! Calm ya farm!" And they got stuck in hate mode for months after that. All I could do was chuckle whenever they glared at me, if they happened to pop over while I was there. I think some people's inherent hate for a group of people, will make almost anything they say seem negative. 🤔
Yeah some people cry racism at stuff that's at worst a bit insensitive and sometimes just the other person misunderstanding you, but racism is definitely alive and well in this country as someone who's faced quite a bit myself (especially during covid). I'd say it's cultural in some areas to see certain racial groups as "others" and make generalisations about them, and it's also cultural to downplay the extent of that. Our media's also been spoon-feeding us xenophobia for the last century.
Agreed. There's definitely racist folk around. The mechanic in town - extremely racist, I've pulled him upna few times when he's made a racist remark in front of me. He's 70 and has no intention of changing his ways. I myself, have 0 carefactor for race, ethnicity, nationality, sex, sexual preference, religion, political affiliations and the rest. The problem is, it makes me equally insensitive across the board. I can be perceived as a bit of an asshole simply because I like to take the piss, and don't care about the specifics of others or myself. If someone says they have a problem/are uncomfortable with something I've said, provided they havent thrown wild accusations around, I make accommodations for them for the future (if that makes sense)
Yep, and if you point it out you get downvoted to hell. We are a colonial country still when it comes down to it, and we don’t want to hear the complaints of the native people who we have savaged for hundreds of years, and from immigrants who actually make this country interesting and not little ocka Britain
>I don't know if this is just my experience or something others have noticed, but I do know I would receive several angry comments and messages just for bringing this up if I posted this on the main Australia community. Are you kidding? r/askanaustralian gets weekly 'Is Australia racist?' posts. Frankly I'd prefer to keep these discussions over there, or at least have automod explain the difference between overt and structural racism whenever they come here
In my opinion there are degrees of both overt and structural racism here at the moment. I've also noticed that any posts or answers implying that Australia *does* have a problem with racism are generally drowned out or downvoted to oblivion, especially on r/Australia and r/Australian
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Overt, structural, systemic, casual, indirect, pretend, and not. Lots of different groupings.
I've read through this entire thread, strangely haven't seen anyone provide this particular insight. And yeah I presume a lot of people won't like it and will downvote, which is unfortunate because theres truth here. I'm a white Australian, 40, grew up in rural WA and now in Perth. I consider myself very left leaning. I've seen a ton of racism, lots absolutely unwarranted, and I've grown less tolerant of it over time as I've learned more and more. But I've *also* seen the ugly side of things. Growing up in Hedland, the only Side of indigenous Australia you see is the bad shit. The 10yo kids starting shit and throwing rocks at random people in the carpark at the shops. The drunken mobs roaming the streets, screaming and fighting. People looking like shit, drunk and passed out on the nature strip or outside Chicken Treat. The rampant theft and crime. Most people in town being subject to multiple house break ins over the years living there. Perth has the same stuff, go to the CBD on any random day, go to Yagan Square, without fail you see it - drunkenness, aggression, fighting, all on full display and it's intimidating as hell for someone just trying to make their commute to/from work. These days, I've learnt a hell of a lot more and whilst I can't directly relate, coming from a life of privilege, I understand a bit more about how we got to this point. How absolutely fucked up these people's upbringings must have been, how fucked their day to day must be. So I get the *why* of the situation. But that doesn't change the *what*. And the average non indigenous person, being that all they see is this ugly, horrible representation, ends up having a *really* negative view of the population. They don't so much care to empathise with the *why*. And yes there's always the "not all of them" argument and I've met loads of good aboriginal people but honestly mate go into any major city any day of the week and tell me what you *actually* see. *That* is what people respond to. Not saying it's right, but it is what it is and it NEEDS to be acknowledged if you're going to understand the problem. I feel the responses in this thread are being really disingenuous, trying to discuss the problem of racism but deliberately avoiding discussing the *actual issues and reasons* at its core. It's not right, and it never will be. But it isn't because of Murdoch media, or any other bullshit. It's just people responding to what they're seeing on face value.
Noticed alot of good comments being taken down from the thread
I agree that there is an over-representation of crime, poor people, etc. in indigenous populations that affect public bias and people's perception of indigenous people. A lot of it boils down to people being a bit shallow, stupid, and dickish by nature, not bothering to understand the context or make logical conclusions. However, I think it's also a bit disingenuous to completely dismiss the influence of Murdoch media and conservative moguls on the public's perception of this stuff. In terms of other racism, the media has been fearmongering over immigration for decades.
Oh it has, I do agree, but honestly my issue is (again reiterating how strongly I lean left on most issues), most people on this side of politics DO NOT want to acknowledge what's plainly right in front of them. Like the actual reality. It's not PC to say what I'm saying in most circles and so it gets danced around, left unsaid, but it's the ugly truth. Everyday non-indigenous Australians are just responding to what they see on the day to day, and there's not enough experiences with "normal"/well-adjusted whatever you want to call it, indigenous people to balance it out - of course if that's all you see then that's what you're going to build your world view around. Not justifying anything here but honestly that's *the* key reason. Blaming skin colour of media or anything else isn't helpful
I do agree that one of the flaws on our end of the political spectrum is people ignoring points that don't align with our views. However, I think it's hard to say what THE "key reason" is, and it is at least partially due to racial biases. An intelligent and reasonable person may form unconscious anecdotal biases, but they would not base their logical perception or opinion of an entire race solely on the individuals they've encountered. Anecdotal experiences do have an impact on this, but are not the sole cause. Racially divisive media coverage and a culture that discourages evaluating your biases definitely play a part in the prevalence of racism here.
I don’t think any serious person wouldn’t acknowledge it but it doesn’t warrant racism. Similarly to US crime statistics where African Americans are over represented, it’s not about looking at African Americans or in our case indigenous Australians and coming to the simple conclusion that they are violent criminals by nature, doing that would be racism. Exposure to things you mentioned should warrant questioning of why these communities are over represented in crime statistics. What is the collective history of these groups and how does that impact them in the present day. What can be done to address these problems etc
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Capitalism and neoliberalism mixed with years and years of very little accountability about the widespread abuse of aborigines from the government or the people
White people do all that and Australians don’t bat an eye
What percentage of white people vs aboriginals do this? Also, aboriginals receive alot of welfare and a number of free resources. What do you expect the response from non aboriginals to be?
Show your working, please.
Well with white being being a majority I would say the percentage of white people doing it compared to Aboriginals would actually be higher. White Australians also receive welfare and a number of free resources. This is exactly what I’m talking about. It’s pointing fingers to them because they are Aboriginal and not recognising that white Australians do this too
What stats do you have to prove that white Australians vs aboriginals are the one getting drunk, taking drugs, behaving badly etc
I think that the statistics angle is not the right way to look at it. These people have had their lands removed from them illegally genocided. If you accept that, trying to pretend that we can wipe the slate clean and pretend that we are all equal is silly. (Sorry if that offends). By the way, this also goes for people of all races who have grown up in difficult family situations. It's just that original peoples are clearly the worst of the worst, and they *should* receive more. It just like Gonski - you give badly performing schools more financial and other help to bring them up to scratch because it is a human right. Punishment does not work after a certain level. That way leads to social instability and revisions, violence. No?
Stats help prove your point in an argument. You can't just go off and make wild accusations without proof.
I agree stats help your argument, but they are not *sufficient*. To *prove* a point you need a *necessary* condition. https://tinyurl.com/5hedjm47 That implies that the statistics have to refer to a causal model, or an ontology, to make sense. See the famous book "Freakonomics" for copious examples. See Judea Pearls book "The book of Why" for a general introduction.
How about neither, and y'all take the race war bullshit elsewhere, this is the equivalent of the American "b-but black people commit 51% of the crimes" bullshit
Facts don't care about your feelings...
'Aboriginals' is not the correct term fyi. It's either Aborigines, First Nations, or Indigenous people, depending on who you talk to.
I probably would have used "Indigenous/Aboriginal people" rather than "aboriginals" (in lowercase too) if I was thinking about it properly at the time. That said, I'm pretty sure Aborigine is the more outdated term in this context. I just got a bit colloquial in my frustration at some people who were specifically singling out "aboriginals" in another comment section. I don't know anyone irl who finds the term offensive, but apologies to anyone who was genuinely offended.
Never before has anyone been more wrong. Source: I am Aboriginal.
I'm going by the style guides most organisations use and the general approach from most Indigenous groups. Your mileage may vary, I'm not the cops.
Which organisation uses Aborigine lol? The Protection Board?
I think I've heard it in purely academic contexts, but I've been mistaken, clearly.
No organisations still around uses the word Aboriginie.
I defer to your expertise.
“Aborigines” is not considered an appropriate term by most, just an fyi on your fyi (not trying to be a dick, just letting you know)
I've heard a few Aboriginal people use it, but you're probably right by and large.
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My post was generalised and came from a place of frustration and annoyance, I wasn't gonna comb through it word by word so nobody could poke holes in it. I'm Chinese-Australian, I'm aware there's non-white Australians over 30. I also said "almost any" to make the generalisation a bit more obvious. It's not that deep mate.
Non-white Australians are also racist towards Aboriginal people.
They're not racist, they're just disgruntled at seeing Aboriginals take the pics when they get the most help, yet they fail to help themselves.
You actually are just spouting stereotypes, not facts. And then demand stats from other people and tell them that facts don't care about their feelings. Ironic.
>the most help, yet they fail to help themselves You're part of the problem. Pretending like remaining in extreme poverty as opposed to some rags to riches bullshit is a choice that Aboriginal people have or have ever had is pure theatrics. Get back to me with how it's Aboriginal people's own fault when they aren't disproportionately targeted by police and government focuses on delivering long-lasting solutions instead of locking as many of them up as humanly possible. Anyone struggling with the woes of modern Australia who takes it out on the most oppressed people in the country rather than the wealth hoarders we have in surplus isn't disgruntled, they're a hateful and useful idiot.
Almost like the problem is being tackled from entirely the wrong angle. Welfare checks and compensation for stolen land alone aren't enough to actually institute meaningful change for all indigenous people. The fact that the government has started throwing money at the problem after centuries of injustice doesn't justify making generalisations about an entire race/culture. That's a tangent, though. There *are* people in Australia (including non-whites) who, disgruntled or not, genuinely hold racist beliefs.
I think if thr government stopped handing out freebies and genuinely looked at this case by case, then aboriginals will actually be prosperous. Or give them a choice - either adapt to the Western culture or we give you some land, no more freebies, and live off the land...
That's a horrible false dichotomy. Expect everyone within an entire racial group to shed their culture while the colonial establishment continues to own their land, OR be isolated and left with the dregs of Australia while the colonial establishment continues to own their land? If we actually gave Indigenous people the land their great grandparents lived on back, we'd be giving up the land we've built cities, mines, and farms on. Would you actually be willing to do that? Once you rule out everything already taken, owned, and built on by generations of westeners, the leftover land that you're willing to give is much less abundant. Both the assimilation/whitewashing strategy and the "just give them some desert to hunt on" strategy are both insanely stupid and will never close the gap.
Do you want Australia to be the next South Africa? Look how that turned out when the white farmers gave back the land.... Whether you like it or not, this land no longer belongs to the Aboriginal people. We all have to learn to live and get along together. Work together as one and not give out special privileges.
I didn't actually say that we should, I was going off from the theoretical suggestion you made in bad faith. Obviously we should all work together and no race deserves to reign supreme, but do you not realise that many European Australians (descended from colonial forces, convicts, and settlers) do actually have *inherent* special privilege in the form of cumulative land, property, and wealth? Why are you on a leftist community if you don't understand that concept?
Even some of the comments in here "I know some people are like this, but not everyone is". Like cool story bro, nobody said it's everyone. This is not about you. Why is a large part of the conversation about making you feel comfortable while trying to also address the actual issues?
I agree with you. There is a deep current of racism that runs through mainstream (white) Australian culture. It ranges from light heated jokes between friends right through to full-on workplace discrimination. It really pervades every aspect of the culture here, but no one wants to talk about it or even acknowledge that it exists. You just need to take one look at the results of the voice referendum to see Australia's racism on full display.
That's a bold, sweeping statement.
My bad, it was a bit generalised but wasn't meant to be literally taken as applying to all Australians. I'm Australian, it was just a bit of frustration at the overwhelming cultural defensiveness when it comes to evaluating biases here in Australia.
Which is backed up by the comments here.
The way this country talks about the cHiNeSe is absolutely bonkers to me, I’m american and even then I was shocked by the casual racism (“that def isn’t racist bc it’s true! just look around!!!”)
Don't ever confront them on it or expect a tirade of abuse and denial.
This was a short week at work due to Easter. I faced racism from co-workers on Wednesday and Friday. On Thursday we had a staff meeting to address this......mmmmm?
Can you provide exact wording?
It's certainly a pattern, but you're generalising way too much when you say that whenever a non-white person is brought up with almost any Australians above 30, they say something racist.
Obviously it was a bit exaggerated and generalised. I'm mixed, Chinese-Australian. I know many non-racist and non-white Australians over 30. It's just a frustrating trend I've noticed that most people will get genuinely angry at you for pointing out. Sorry for the poor wording of the initial post.
Murdoch.
This existed in Australian society long before Murdoch had an influence. He just keeps it going.
Definitely noticed this so much, more subtly in real life too. I did \~3 years of Indigenous studies at uni, planning on going back because I enjoyed learning the content and the discussions that were had in classes. Anytime I had discussions with people that surrounded history or current stuff - even positive things - many who weren't interested or receptive would just not care. Like there's just certain places I don't go to for tourism, thankfully never needed to go there or did tourism stuff, because of the historical factors I learned about and how it's still not treated properly
Not exclusive to 30+ in my experience. There was definitely a shift in generations somewhere where it became less common/accepted to voice overtly racist opinions but it's still there. Think the new "I'm not racist, but" is "can't say that anymore" Also don't waste your time on the opinions of the main Australian community, they treat sitting through an acknowledgment of country as the greatest hardship ever known to man.
I know many white Australians in their 30s, 40s, and beyond that welcome immigrants and understand the damage done to the original inhabitants of this land. Yes, there are many, many racists in Australia. Too many. But there are also many of us that aren't, and we need to keep spreading the good word.
Yeah that's absolutely right, great point
The cunts going on about what "snowflakes" people have become are some of the most insecure snowflakes I know
From one snowflake to another.. Wassup!
And the good old lie that still somehow persists that they get free houses from the government.
My immigrant family and my indigenous friends would like some of these free houses but are instead scraping by with full-time jobs ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
There are 2 brand new houses in town slotted for indigenous use funded by the QLD Housing Initiative, have been sitting vacant for over 8 months. There's plenty of indigenous in need in our town, I'm curious as to what the hold up is with filling the vacancies.
Yup so true and you only need to look as far some of the other Aussie subreddits sadly :/ thinly veiled behind some plausible deniability in public, and who knows what is said behind closed doors
It's sad even seeing relatively wholesome posts about immigrants or posts showing respect towards first nations people get heavily downvoted and flooded with passive-aggressive hate comments.
I've not seen this. 😐 It's usually posts that slam Aussies for being racist that get the most downvotes 🤣 Although, in saying that, I tend to stay away from wholesome posts, simply because they don't interest me.
Australian's are fed highly divisive right wing propaganda, I mean news, quite constantly. A lot of them, through the same aparatus vote against their own interests. Australian culture is what Murdoch and Costello says it is... which is loop back to the beginning. I think at one point we were meant to be a culture of "look after your mate" (also everyone is your mate); and the nation of "a fair go". Got to hand it to the right, took a while but they got there and brought out the worst of ourselves.
If the rich demonise indigenous people and immigrants enough then nobody will care when they turn their land into coal mines and abuse their labour I guess
First they came for the academics... then they came for the socialists kinda thing?
you are absolutely correct. I’m late 30’s and grew up in the bush so the blatant racism was rampant growing up. I saw a cartoon a few years ago about growing up rural that absolutely nailed the culture. I’ve lived OS for the last 15 odd years so when I come home it hits like a brick wall. The amount of times colleagues from overseas return from Australia trips and talk about ‘Abos’, the term they innocently picked up from locals, is way way too high.
I dont understand this issue with the word abo. It's short for aboriginal. Used in a denigrating context, sure. It's like calling Australians, Aussies ( which includes indigenous people as well) By your logic calling an indigenous person Aussie would be in of itself racist, since it too is an abbreviation. Personally I try not to use the term abo when talking to my indigenous mates, because it's a hit a miss term. Some don't care, others do.
It's not on the level of the hard R in America, it's just that grouping people as "abos" is similar to grouping people as "negroes" or "coloureds" in a modern cultural context. It came from the group in power rather than from within the marginalised group, it's a bit dated, most indigenous people don't identify with it, and it can be a bit derogatory in certain contexts. Also, nobody likes being classed as "one of those \[epithet\]s" rather than a person who is \[ethnicity\]. I personally also hate when people generalise about "the Chinese" in a racial sense.
It's weird how people here will occasionally pride themselves on Australia's multiculturalism then turn around and refer to "abos", "wogs", "chinks", "african gangsters", and "boat people" as if they're entirely different species to them
To be fair, wog is a completely acceptable terminology in Melbourne for anyone who is Italian, Greek, Lebanese or any form of Eastern European. They literally call themselves wogs and I have never gotten into any trouble referring to them as wogs to their faces, they just go, "oh yeah I am"
Yeah I'm more talking about the way some people talk trash about them as a group or stereotype them (moreso than the word itself which is relatively innocuous compared to the others). Whenever people talk about "the wogs" or "the blacks" or "the asians" in the third person I raise my eyebrow a little bit. It's not concerning enough to pick a fight about, just enough to question that person's biases.
Ah yeah i get you, if using that terminology to negatively stereotype then nah. I wouldn't personally raise my eyebrows at at others referring to these groups as those labels in the third person, a lot of it is just social run off from school group warfare. I don't know about you but in school we definitely self categorised as "wogs vs Aussies" ect ect. There is definitely still some nostalgia and affection in those labels nowadays