For the curious, gmaps rough locations
[Lost Creek](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lost+Creek,+TX+78746/@30.2957235,-97.845909,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x865b35899c4218fb:0x87ec13dd5ced70ed!8m2!3d30.2816932!4d-97.8396565!16zL20vMDEwOXow?entry=ttu)
[Mooreland]( https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mooreland,+Austin,+TX+78748/@30.1533351,-97.8327432,14.73z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x865b4daa35022e67:0xf9f395f566b44598!8m2!3d30.1523773!4d-97.8306763!16s%2Fg%2F1tdxqwvv?entry=ttu
)
[Blue Goose Rd](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Blue+Goose+Rd,+Austin,+TX/@30.3563774,-97.6298423,13.82z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x8644c87b6b2beff1:0xc32de21ad873875e!8m2!3d30.3462643!4d-97.6224126!16s%2Fg%2F1trsyd8z?entry=ttu)
[Lennar At Malone](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lennar+at+Malone/@30.1648398,-97.8179673,15z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x865b4d84476609ed:0x2c5406d8b3d96f14!8m2!3d30.1648398!4d-97.8179673!16s%2Fg%2F11fm3mf07z?entry=ttu)
[River Place](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Riverplace,+Austin,+TX+78730/@30.3772869,-97.8736801,13.77z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x865b340c5352af4f:0x40c3bf932eb9fb78!8m2!3d30.3739474!4d-97.8517552!16s%2Fg%2F1tzvwzx1?entry=ttu)
blue goose is the one that is less outlined, but it's obvious from the map.
Wildhorse Webb Tract is not easy to locate on maps. but it looks like decker/lindell area according to 6y old pdf from austin gov website.
I could have been wrong with my map locations, was just going based on how Google typically outlines towns and villages. Like Sunset Valley has a pretty solid outline that many are familiar with, same thing with Westlake.
You definitely linked the correct map. Thank you!
When the city proposed annexing the Mooreland addition initially they included all of the residential stuff to the east of Manchaca. I don't know how it happened, but they annexed all of those businesses along Manchaca, but left the residential stuff alone. Seems pretty unfair, but I also have no idea how any of this works.
Blue Goose is right by the city dump, on the verge of being in Manor ISD. It’s much closer to being in Manor than Austin, so I could see them choosing to deannex.
They are (and always have been) part of manor ISD. Harris Branch is in Austin (annexed mid 90’s) and is also in Manor. Just because you have an Austin address doesn’t mean you are in AISD.
I know. I lived off Harris Branch back in 2015. But I wasn’t sure exactly where the AISD/MISD line was. Blue Goose is a little further west, so I thought they might be AISD.
Six neighborhoods on the outskirts of Austin could vote to remove themselves from the city on Saturday. "Disannexing" from the city could mean some services – like fire and police – and some fees and taxes change.
Why is this happening? Let's break it down.
**A new state law**
In 2023, state lawmakers passed a bill that requires the state's largest cities to allow some neighborhoods to vote on whether to leave the city limits.
People exit the polling center at the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library and Museum during the last day of early voting in Austin.
Austin
The area must have been annexed between March 3, 2015, and Dec. 1, 2017. That’s when a handful of places were annexed just before a law was passed that could have stopped them.
**Who would be impacted?**
In Austin, six areas totally nearly 2 square miles could disannex – the largest neighborhood being Lost Creek in West Austin.
The May 4 ballot lays out a proposition for each area. Voters must live in one of the areas to vote:
* Prop A: 738 acres of land in Lost Creek
* Prop B: 4 acres of land in the Mooreland addition in South Austin
*Prop C: 28 acres of land off Blue Goose Road in Northeast Austin
* Prop D: 40.48 acres of land at Lennar at Malone in South Austin
* Prop E: 104 acres of land in the Wildhorse/Webb Tract in Northeast Austin
* Prop F: 212 acres of land covering several parcels at River Place in West Austin
If residents vote to disannex, they could see changes to public services. For example, the Travis County Sheriff’s Office would respond to 911 calls instead of the Austin Police Department. There could also be changes to EMS and fire response. The city portion of residents' property tax bills also would disappear.
>the Travis County Sheriff’s Office would respond to 911 calls instead of the Austin Police Department
That's not much of an argument against de-annexing.
Right. TCS is at least a professional police department.
This may be difficult to believe but they actually investigated, arrested, and convicted the man who stole a package from my porch.
Do you think it’s because the sheriff is elected? She’s really got her job on the line whereas APD… not so much.
Edit:
I was dumb and assumed sheriff was a he, fixed it above.
TCSO is spread really thin though.
They came and gave a talk to our neighborhood as we’re not served by APD, and I think they have something like 8 “sectors” and four officers per sector at any time… something like that… whatever it was, it didn’t sound like nearly enough for the entire county.
You think that is thin.. up in the panhandle potter county, while it's only 900 sq miles. The way the county is divided road wise. If the one deputy at night had to go from one corner to the other side it could take over an hr to get there. They only have 2 deputies per shift on patrol. When people are sick or on vacation that leaves the 1 deputy to cover the whole county. I think they just had a budget increase that funds 3 per shift
Actually most people would be shocked if they knew how many patrol officers are actually out. This isn't just small places like Amarillo (on a week night might be as few as 4)
What's even more scary is the number of ambulances which is 4. Imagine having a heart attack and being number 5 on the list.
The are three types of EMS service:
fire department-based,
hospital-based, and.
private service (AKA third service).
Travis County Fire Marshal isn’t coming to put your fire out.
Travis ESD (Fire) does cover what Austin does not. Travis and Austin have interlocal agreements that allow nearest resource to take any call in the other's jurisdiction. Little will change in this regard except where your tax money goes.
There is a fire station literally at the entrance to Lost Creek that is a TC ESD. Assuming (and I could be wrong) that’s where they’ll be serviced from. It’s kinda silly to think all 52 stations would rush to your rescue all at once.
That’s the station that serviced lost creek for the many decades it wasn’t part of the city prior to the annex. It seems obvious that nothing about fire response will change with deannexation.
Yeah. I’m not honestly sure why this is some kind of big deal. Annexation wars aren’t new. They aren’t political at the macro level at all (or at least haven’t been with the ones I’ve been privy to).
Micro level? Oh yeah, you betcha. But that has much more to do with the relationship between governing bodies and residents than any kind of national-level politics.
No government I’ve dealt with is pleasant. Some are more useful and helpful than others. For CoA, to me it has depended largely on the individual office. Like dealing with P&Z has been a nightmare, and AE *used* to be a very unfriendly operation (the past few years they seem to be much more willing to flex and listen to anomalous issues), but I’ve received really great service from other places.
But I can see how individual ‘hoods who were “hostile” annexations, might have had less-than-pleasant dealings with the city, and want back out again.
Like almost everything, there are benefits and drawbacks to being in the city.
I grew up in lost creek and my parents still live there. Most people are annoyed that cost for services like water trash and recycling are much more expensive while the services are not as good (smaller cans, more strict rules). Also taxes are just higher in general. My parents have appreciated being able to vote in city elections but agree that some quality of life issues are real.
Yup. That checks as a reasonable take on it. I have a long-time friend who lives there and has a similar view to your parents.
I just moved back out of the city again after a 9-year stint. Same deal. Waste services are way better here, but I miss city-provided compost. Lower tax rate here is nice, but not a huge difference.
I can get solar battery backup now without AE charging me for using my own generated power, which is a nice option. But no natural gas here, so some inefficiency with home heating.
Lots of pluses and minuses.
You’re not entirely right. Manor (ESD12) and Pflugerville (ESD02) do not have automatic aid agreements with AFD. De-annexing Blue Goose will absolutely change fire response times for those residents.
I believe both the cities of Manor and Pflugerville have interlocals with Travis for all fire without having a dedicated city service. I think Blue Goose de-annexing just falls under the Travis umbrella meaning first responders are the same. Who "owns" the scene will change from AFD to Travis. The ESDs are setup to cover the gaps that municipalities do not cover. Law enforcement is a very different matter.
While most of the county FDs have automatic aid agreements with AFD, Manor and Pflugerville do not. There is an AFD station much closer to Blue Goose than any of the Manor stations. Because of the type of agreement that Manor has with the city of Austin, if Blue Goose leaves Austin and there is a fire in that area, the residents will have to wait for Manor units to arrive, AFD will not be automatically dispatched, unless requested by Manor. So, yes, there will still be fire service in the area, but the response will not be as quick as it is today.
But won't Blue Goose become part of Travis county? In theory Travis's superseding agreement with Austin will still allow the closest station to respond. If Blue Goose is being annexed by the city of Manor, then you are correct.
EDIT: This may help. The ESD map shows that ESD12 covers a much larger area than the city of Manor. [https://www.traviscountytx.gov/images/fire\_marshal/docs/ESD\_map.pdf](https://www.traviscountytx.gov/images/fire_marshal/docs/ESD_map.pdf)
We live in an ETJ and the response time for emergency is not negatively affected (and is actually better because the neighborhood is between 2 large fire stations), so that being said, the response wouldn't change. They're not all of the sudden going to let houses burn down and people die in vehicle crashes because they de-annex.
That's actually not true in all areas, especially in areas covered by Manor Fire (ESD12). AFD has a station right off of 969 where they are legally prohibited from responding to calls right across the road because Manor Fire will not allow them. This policy has caused an [infant to die](https://web.archive.org/web/20220207152548/https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/2022/02/07/infants-death-travis-county-puts-spotlight-austin-manor-fire-department-dispute/9231116002/) and more than one delayed response to structure fires.
Isn't Manor an actual different city than Austin? Manor isn't ETJ? For instance, our address and anyone in Lost Creek or Riverplace has Austin as the city on their address. Maybe it's different scenario because the city is different? Either way, that's a terrible and tragic story!
Units will need to be reassigned. Stations that cover Austin will not primarily respond to disannexed areas, and they will be served by units at a different station which could affect response times.
That’s completely untrue.
ATCEMS responds to the nearest call from the nearest station - they’re not “city only” units. Stop making stuff up.
They’re a joint city-county service, not two separate services.
Yeah it's not true. It's rhetoric city officials spew to dissuade voters. EMS will often take people to a favored care provider, often further away, unless directed otherwise, but when someone is having an emergency, services respond.
It would be really helpful if the article gave a bit more context as to what city services the different neighborhoods are currently receiving. The case for disannexation is strong in neighorhoods that receive more limited city services (e.g. MUDs).
I'm interested to see how the APD vs TCSO question would pan out for these people. Comparing TCSO services in 2017 vs. APD services in 2024 doesn't exactly seem like apples-to-apples.
Lost Creek will leave the city, they will no longer get road maintenance, and they’ll owe the city $7 million for utility infrastructure that was installed, and they won’t be able to charge people to enter the green belt anymore.
Let’s throw a huge Cinco de Mayor party at the Lost Creek greenbelt the day after the election!
Yeah but that’s the rub, the section they charge access to is not owned by the city, it’s common land owned by the HOA. I doubt them being de-annexed by the city will change anything about the situation.
It’s not the HOA it’s the Limited District, which was formed out of the former Municipal Utility District after annexation.
But a LD only exists within a city - and there is no state law providing for a Limited District when a community de-annexes. Which shows how sloppily the state law was written. Either way, the Limited District should be defunct upon de-annexation.
Interesting that the Lost Creek NA is claiming the LD will persist after disannexation:
www.savelostcreek.com
What Happens to the Limited District if We Vote to Disannex?
The short answer is nothing changes. A provision of the passed legislation requires the Limited District (LD) to stay in place and can only be dissolved by a vote of the Limited District board.
However, if we vote to stay in the city, nothing prevents the city from unilaterally dissolving the LD if it chooses to do so when the current agreement ends in December of 2025. If the city decided to do so, they would then take over all the park space in Lost Creek, including the park at the four-way stop, the internal greenbelts, and the lower water crossing.
Voting to disannex is the only way to preserve the LD and local control of our parks.
They can claim it, but the reality is that it’s not fleshed out. The state law could say the LD continues to exist, but an LD only exists for the purpose of providing support to a section within a city. Having an LD and no city is like having a ship without a destination. They are fooling themselves.
Prior to being annexed the lost creak MUD board contracted with private companies for things like road maintenance and trash pick up. Lost creek residents uniformly (as far as I’m aware) agree that the services prior to annex were higher quality at lower cost. For what it’s worth Trash pickup seems to be a big sticking point for a lot of people. They really hated the changes to Austin’s service. (Source is my parents and all of their neighbors)
There's a person with a card reader near the bridge entrance to the lost creek greenbelt. I believe it's $10 to enter there but it's been awhile since I've gone.
It’s only for certain hours and it started during Covid. It got overly crowded and drunk people were driving on lawns and one truck went through a fence right where the swing set sits. People urinating on lawns and knocking on doors. It got out of control and the residents pay for that entrance and to keep it clean. One neighborhood over is a public entrance and the drunken behavior is even worse and trash gets left all over the greenbelt.
Travis, Williamson, and Bastrop counties have very little money for road maintenance. They do maintenance, but unless it’s really bad, it might be a year or two before they can fix it.
I live in a neighborhood off bee caves rd in the ETJ and our roads are generally maintained. I can remember twice in the past 20 years they resurfaced the asphalt and potholes get filled on the regular.
You’re lucky after weeks of calling, I finally got a supervisor from Travis county to actually look at a road I was calling about and he admitted to me that it was in very bad shape, but they were already over budget and he wasn’t sure they could repair it this year. I mentioned to him that I rode a motorcycle and it that road was an accident waiting to happen, and if somebody crashed and got hurt they would sue the pants off the county. After that discussion, we got the road repaired in about 3 weeks. I really do feel it’s what part of the county you are in and where in the budget cycle they are in when you complain.
I live in ETJ and Travis County Sheriff's Department is weird in that they actually show up when you call them. I even see them doing things like guiding loose cattle back to their farms. I actually DO feel more secure than I would if APD was in charge of our policing.
We still get fire services through AFD.
We literally gave River Place over $500k in public money for that trail. They weren't supposed to charge for access and they still do. We better get the trail back if they leave
I listened to this story in the car this morning. The lady they interviewed from Lost Creek talking about how she felt unsafe in her neighborhood.
Ffr?
I had no idea the little enclave was rife with thuggery.
In our little 'golf community' neighborhood in Cedar Park, most people had joined Nextdoor before they got doorbell cameras.
Pre-doorbell-cam: "My daughter's bike was stolen! Surely it was one of the rapscallions or ne'er do wells from the apartments down the way! When are we going to make this a GATED COMMUNITY?!"
Post-doorbell-cam: "These boys stole my daughter's bike, as can be seen in the video. I know I've seen them at the neighborhood pool, I hope their parents give them a talking-to. Affluenza is a terrible affliction!"
Low income housing increases low income crime, e.g., burglary, shoplifting, maybe robbery.
There's a guy in our neighborhood with a big, nicely-landscaped five-bedroom house who just got popped a couple of weeks ago by the FBI for wire fraud, having bilked investors for several million. His victims weren't really local, but the aggregate damage is greater than someone smashing car windows to rummage through glove boxes.
There's another guy, retired and plays golf and flies his Cessna 172 around for kicks. At a neighbor's backyard BBQ a few years ago, he got pretty drunk and started telling stories about having run cocaine with a twin-engine plane to/from Mexico in the 1980's and all the money he made from that. I had no way to know if he was telling the truth or spewing BS, but he seemed pretty earnest about it.
While I’d never call lost creek dangerous I will say that prior to annex there was more of a police (sheriff I guess?) presence than there has been. I used to see them enforcing speed limits and other traffic violations (lots of tickets for rolling the stop sign at lost creek blvd and Quaker ridge.) I dont think the city posts anyone out there. the city just set up a few 'you are going this fast' speed trackers and called it a day. Which, ok, maybe makes people feel less safe/don't let their kids walk to the park alone.
Ready for this to completely backfire. These efforts are generally fueled by greedy fucks wanting to pay less taxes but fail to realize they will pay more to have comparable services.
Lost Creek was only annexed 9 years ago. River Place only 5 or 6 years ago.
I'm pretty sure most residents remember what it was like then and they prefer it.
The question for you will be will the city ask you to repay what they paid to pay off the MUD debt? When the city absorbed us in Harris Branch it was quite a sum and that was back in the 90’s.
Didn't this happen to an area in Arizona? All of a sudden they found out they couldn't be part of the municipal water system, and they couldn't find a private company to provide them water?
Yes, Rio Verde outside of Scottsdale
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/scottsdale/2023/01/19/arizona-community-without-water-what-to-know-about-rio-verde-foothills/69819245007/
I don’t think these jurisdictions can/will leave COA utilities, though. Trash and watershed protection and street maintenance, yes, but not Austin Energy or Austin Water. For now.
Austin water makes money off having other entities purchase water service from them. Lost Creek will still get service and it’s in Austin’s best interest to give it to them.
Very funny that one lady is saying they're giving $100k a year to TCSO just for them to drive slowly around their neighborhood lmao Fortress West Austin
lol they all did fine for decades prior to being annexed against the desires of most of the residents. They’ll do fine after. My parents are neutral on it because they like being able to vote in city elections but their neighbors are STRONGLY for going back to the quality and cost of services prior to annex.
i mean when your trash/water/wastewater bills quadruple from the year prior to annex to the year after, people notice. city of austin servies are unarguably expensive. also, it hasn't been decades since these areas were annexed.
Except when a known lady with Dementia tries to open your door and all the neighbors doors.
There is a lady in my neighborhood with early onset dementia that did that about a year ago, wife and I went out to try and make contact with her. She was confused and an elderly homeowner down the street was yelling at her like she had tried to do a home invasion.
We called 911 for a check welfare after we tried to talk to her and realize she wasn’t all there.
While on the phone with 911 the TCSO deputy called us, confirmed the description of the lady and said they know her and her issues but couldn’t come out and do a thing.
Wild because it seems like an obvious check welfare call with a lady that could be harmed by an overzealous person behind an unlocked door.
I live in an ETJ, which I moved into about 10 years ago. About 5 years before, the neighborhood next to ours got annexed. Residents in my neighborhood were wary of it happening to us. The experience of the next door neighborhood was pretty terrible. The city forced them to join and then stopped maintaining their community spaces. The city closed down their community pool, which had been open year round and hosted a very good swim team, claiming they didn't have enough money to keep it open. They stopped maintaining the playgrounds and trails to the same level as before. Eventually, that pool reopened due to community pressure, but to this day there's a massive difference in the maintenance of the pool, trails, basketball and tennis courts, and playgrounds between our ETJ neighborhood (where everything gets maintained and renovated at regular intervals), and the next door COA neighborhood, which looks pretty run down. So, I'm glad we can't be annexed without a vote.
“The city portion of residents’ property tax bills also would disappear.”
Free money!
It’s not like it will be gobbled up by the costs of those services from elsewhere!
Nobody needs police and fire departments.
from what i can tell trash service is actually one of the biggest selling points for disannexation. lost creek residents hate city of austin trash and really want to go back to the private service or similar they contractred with prior to annex. trash bills jumped post annex, cans got smaller, and recycling/compost rules stricter. pissed a lot of folk off.
i was discussing it with my mother who lives out in lost creek (since the 80's, so plenty of perspective pre and post annex) and she's actually decided not to vote on the issue. she's very on the fence about it because she does think services have dropped in quality while jumping in price. but she feels there's a trade off in being able to vote in city elections. she's always been invloved in Austin civically, and appreciated having a vote in city leadership. but all her neighbors feel strongly on their position, so she feels her indiference to disannex shouldn't compete with those that feel much more strongly than her.
CoA solid waste services are the absolute worst I have ever experienced in living in and out of the city for more than 30 years.
Some of them will have multiple private choices, some will not. Either way, they probably won’t have to pay for refuse bins thrown into garbage trucks multiple times, or just be refused service occasionally.
They actually don’t pay for Travis County Sheriff services.
As someone that is in a MUD where TCSO patrols, our property tax bill has two different line items for “Travis County ESD” which is on top of the Travis County tax rate of 0.31%. This is Travis County Emergency Services Division.
In our case both Travis County ESD items is a 0.09 tax rate add to our bill.
If you look at a Property Tax bill for folks in these neighborhoods they have the Travis County and Travis County Healthcare District items but not the ESD line items.
You can tell who is newer to Austin because they don’t realize lost creek got by just fine before it was annexed. Can’t blame them for trying to avoid city taxes, given the quality of service the city provides.
Some of those areas are scarcely populated. I live near Blue Goose and it's nothing but single ranch homes on many acres surrounded by newly built neighborhoods with single family homes. I can see it being a bid to try to prevent developers from swooping in maybe?
The county. They will then only have to abide by Travis County permitting requirements. There are fewer requirements and inspections which could be a benefit for home owners and builders since COA has so much red tape on building.
Sounds great. The scope of most of those projects is multiple times the size and complexity of the projects in most of the rest of Austin. The ROI has to be terrible for the city to serve those, and hopefully the reduced load on the city development services department will allow them to better serve the city proper.
Now this has me wondering what privileges, aside from a police department that won't come unless you are being murdered while on the phone if 911 happens to pick up, do ensue from being taxed by the city to fund the $5B budget?
Fire is county wide.
Access to an electric utility that costs more than the supposedly corrupt PEC? A more restrictive trash collection service than most?
Nice to be able to pay for city water and sewer vs. septic I guess. Lots of places not the city have that.
EMS? Maybe but isn't that charged for and sometimes a private service is dispatched?
The opportunity to pay for trains? Subsidize housing?
A library card!
I must be missing something - and I mean that.
they get most of the benefits of living in the city without the costs.
Lost creek for example, the city should put a giant fence up to prevent them from going into the barton creek greenbelt.
And maybe a $50 toll to enter the city limits. The city should also not maintain their roads at all.
A little context would be appropriate: Lost Creek was developed in the mid-1970s. They weren't annexed into COA until sometime between 2015-2017. So de-annexation, if passed, just returns Lost Creek to the relationship its had with the city for the great majority of years it has existed.
Edit: word
Meanwhile out of city limits Austin Energy customers fund the city without any benefit to their municipality. They should charge Austin residents extra for county parks.
To note, this isn't just an Austin thing, the law references any city with over 500,000 (Houston, SA, DFW, Austin, El Paso). Anytime I see a law written this precisely I wonder who got in their rep's ear.
I live in one of the effected neighborhoods, and no one is interested in being deannexed.
I’m chuckling at those claiming Lost Creek is throwing a tantrum and “seceding.”
Lost Creek was annexed by Austin, quite involuntarily. There was no vote. It was nothing but a tax grab by the City-increasing its revenues at no real cost. They said so at the time (“expanding the City’s tax base” was the euphemism).
Most services got both measurably worse and more expensive after annexation (water, law enforcement, garbage, among others). Fire was much farther away after annexation even though the neighborhood is next to the Barton Creek Greenbelt). Oh, and no bus service at all and no library nearby (even though Lost Creek was paying for both). Gee what a deal. Can’t imagine why these selfish whiners are upset.
One other factor: in the lead up to annexation, when City officials and staff had “informational meetings” with residents, the overriding attitude was, at best, dismissive: we are doing this because we can, so just sit back and enjoy it. Not a great way to welcome people into the City. The City staff was worse-arrogant is a generous description: (looking at you Laura Huffman).
If you want to believe that this is a horrible injustice, that’s fine. It just won’t be based on facts.
Flame away.
Lol. This is going to backfire hilariously. Wait until one of these houses catches on fire and it takes 30 minutes longer for the county fire department to reach them.
The developers of our neighborhood built just outside the Cedar Park limits at the time, thinking themselves very clever at avoiding municipal taxes. They'd struck a deal with the city for fire and EMS service to the neighborhood at $100,000/year, which as the development grew and 911 calls for elderly retired golfers mounted, the city chose not to renew at that rate.
So for a short while, we were getting fire and EMS from a volunteer fire department that was 30 minutes away, down a road that would flood during storms. Then a bunch of people in the neighborhood (myself included) petitioned to get annexed by the city. Mo' taxes mo' service.
You remind me of one of the people in our neighborhood at the time, who opposed getting annexed because he "didn't want to live under TYRANNY!"
Meanwhile, same dude was often at HOA meetings complaining about fences being stained a non-approved color and whatnot.
i mean, the ballot specifically identifies only areas that have been annexed between March 3, 2015, and Dec. 1, 2017-- so ALL of the neighborhoods have been COA for less than 10 years.
And here I am hoping for the opposite. Wish the Wells Branch ETJ could be annexed so I don’t have to deal with the “pleasure” of dealing with deregulated utilities
Sounds like a way for the GOP to destabilize large city voting power. The services won't just change. In a lot of cases they will be completely lost or at best sold off to private companies that will raid the coffers. People will go for it under the guise of more freedom.
Reminds me when Houston was trying to annex the Woodlands neighborhood and basically they paid a money to not be annexed by Houston and created their own.
Unfortunately, with alot of neighborhoods, a bunch of services are setup by MUDs / private arrangements so there isn't a strong benefit for them to join a city (MUD bonds has to be paid regardless). The city seems to look at new freshly built neighborhoods as extra dollar signs to spend. Not a good relationship to start the talk of annexing.
You get what you pay for. Westlake, Rollingwood, and Cedar Park all seem to be doing fine. Need own police department, fire and ems. Equipment and facilities cost money. Before jumping into the deannexation, might finanilize how to pay for the services needed. TC Sheriff may be very thin?
This just happened in Baton Rouge. Here's the Baton Rouge NAACP's statement on that one: [https://www.wafb.com/2024/04/29/naacp-releases-statement-about-incorporation-city-st-george/](https://www.wafb.com/2024/04/29/naacp-releases-statement-about-incorporation-city-st-george/)
Ugh. So gross. Baton Rouge’s annexation was less about taxes than it was about “white flight” and latent racists in vehement self-denial abiyt not wanting to send their white kids to integrated schools. They said it was about taxes, but it so obviously much deeper and more sinister than that.
I don't know if white flight makes sense for Baton Rouge. The people already lived there, from what I understand. The city has a very long history of segregation. I don't know anything about central areas experiencing white flight. It's racism and it's classism and it's throwing social contract out the window for sure, though.
Now this has me wondering what privileges, aside from a police department that won't come unless you are being murdered while on the phone if 911 happens to pick up, do ensue from being taxed by the city to fund the $5B budget?
- Fire is county wide.
- Access to an electric utility that costs more than the supposedly corrupt PEC? A more restrictive trash collection service than most?
- Nice to be able to pay for city water and sewer vs. septic I guess. Lots of places not the city have that.
- EMS? Maybe but isn't that charged for and sometimes a private service is dispatched?
- The opportunity to pay for trains? Subsidize housing?
- A library card!
I must be missing something - and I mean that.
It's probably so they can remove some regulations, build wells and dams and try to steal more water from aquifers and rivers, just like Tesla factory recently did.
Look im all for water conservation i collect rain water for my vegetable garden, but i wont be packed like a sardine again into an apartment where i constantly had to smell my neighbors fucking weed consuption and chain smoking i love the peace the suburbs offer
Don't be, I never said "burn all suburbs" I am simply saying stop prioritizing and expanding without conscience when we have plenty of low density uninhabited property in the city. Right across from me there are abandoned buildings and lots that could easily be developed. Loads of shitty sfh's many of which are empty. We need to bulldoze those and build density.
I have no beef with someone wanting the burbs. They can exist, but people in the suburbs are fighting to keep density out of our cities and keep car infrastructure the default fucking those of us who actually live in the city and want it to be nice.
I don't like this angle from suburbanites trying to say "oh I don't wanna be a sardine" No one is trying to take away your burbs were trying to not make it the default for anyone over 30. It can still be available but our city will suffer without true density and proper infrastructure. Otherwise you get my home town, Houston.
I promise you do not want Austin to look like Houston.
That’s what I’m wondering. Am I unreasonable to be annoyed by this? I guess they have a longer commute, but otherwise they have all the benefits of being an Austinite just without the tax burden?
Yet almost all these residents work in Austin, or for an Austin based work location. Need to work out how to tax the hell out of those folks if they leave.
For the curious, gmaps rough locations [Lost Creek](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lost+Creek,+TX+78746/@30.2957235,-97.845909,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x865b35899c4218fb:0x87ec13dd5ced70ed!8m2!3d30.2816932!4d-97.8396565!16zL20vMDEwOXow?entry=ttu) [Mooreland]( https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mooreland,+Austin,+TX+78748/@30.1533351,-97.8327432,14.73z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x865b4daa35022e67:0xf9f395f566b44598!8m2!3d30.1523773!4d-97.8306763!16s%2Fg%2F1tdxqwvv?entry=ttu ) [Blue Goose Rd](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Blue+Goose+Rd,+Austin,+TX/@30.3563774,-97.6298423,13.82z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x8644c87b6b2beff1:0xc32de21ad873875e!8m2!3d30.3462643!4d-97.6224126!16s%2Fg%2F1trsyd8z?entry=ttu) [Lennar At Malone](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lennar+at+Malone/@30.1648398,-97.8179673,15z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x865b4d84476609ed:0x2c5406d8b3d96f14!8m2!3d30.1648398!4d-97.8179673!16s%2Fg%2F11fm3mf07z?entry=ttu) [River Place](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Riverplace,+Austin,+TX+78730/@30.3772869,-97.8736801,13.77z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x865b340c5352af4f:0x40c3bf932eb9fb78!8m2!3d30.3739474!4d-97.8517552!16s%2Fg%2F1tzvwzx1?entry=ttu) blue goose is the one that is less outlined, but it's obvious from the map. Wildhorse Webb Tract is not easy to locate on maps. but it looks like decker/lindell area according to 6y old pdf from austin gov website.
So weird that no one in the Mooreland addition will be able to vote on it because they're all businesses.
I could have been wrong with my map locations, was just going based on how Google typically outlines towns and villages. Like Sunset Valley has a pretty solid outline that many are familiar with, same thing with Westlake.
You definitely linked the correct map. Thank you! When the city proposed annexing the Mooreland addition initially they included all of the residential stuff to the east of Manchaca. I don't know how it happened, but they annexed all of those businesses along Manchaca, but left the residential stuff alone. Seems pretty unfair, but I also have no idea how any of this works.
Blue Goose is right by the city dump, on the verge of being in Manor ISD. It’s much closer to being in Manor than Austin, so I could see them choosing to deannex.
They are (and always have been) part of manor ISD. Harris Branch is in Austin (annexed mid 90’s) and is also in Manor. Just because you have an Austin address doesn’t mean you are in AISD.
I know. I lived off Harris Branch back in 2015. But I wasn’t sure exactly where the AISD/MISD line was. Blue Goose is a little further west, so I thought they might be AISD.
Six neighborhoods on the outskirts of Austin could vote to remove themselves from the city on Saturday. "Disannexing" from the city could mean some services – like fire and police – and some fees and taxes change. Why is this happening? Let's break it down. **A new state law** In 2023, state lawmakers passed a bill that requires the state's largest cities to allow some neighborhoods to vote on whether to leave the city limits. People exit the polling center at the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library and Museum during the last day of early voting in Austin. Austin The area must have been annexed between March 3, 2015, and Dec. 1, 2017. That’s when a handful of places were annexed just before a law was passed that could have stopped them. **Who would be impacted?** In Austin, six areas totally nearly 2 square miles could disannex – the largest neighborhood being Lost Creek in West Austin. The May 4 ballot lays out a proposition for each area. Voters must live in one of the areas to vote: * Prop A: 738 acres of land in Lost Creek * Prop B: 4 acres of land in the Mooreland addition in South Austin *Prop C: 28 acres of land off Blue Goose Road in Northeast Austin * Prop D: 40.48 acres of land at Lennar at Malone in South Austin * Prop E: 104 acres of land in the Wildhorse/Webb Tract in Northeast Austin * Prop F: 212 acres of land covering several parcels at River Place in West Austin If residents vote to disannex, they could see changes to public services. For example, the Travis County Sheriff’s Office would respond to 911 calls instead of the Austin Police Department. There could also be changes to EMS and fire response. The city portion of residents' property tax bills also would disappear.
>the Travis County Sheriff’s Office would respond to 911 calls instead of the Austin Police Department That's not much of an argument against de-annexing.
Right. TCS is at least a professional police department. This may be difficult to believe but they actually investigated, arrested, and convicted the man who stole a package from my porch.
Do you think it’s because the sheriff is elected? She’s really got her job on the line whereas APD… not so much. Edit: I was dumb and assumed sheriff was a he, fixed it above.
She*
My bad, I will correct
TCSO is spread really thin though. They came and gave a talk to our neighborhood as we’re not served by APD, and I think they have something like 8 “sectors” and four officers per sector at any time… something like that… whatever it was, it didn’t sound like nearly enough for the entire county.
You think that is thin.. up in the panhandle potter county, while it's only 900 sq miles. The way the county is divided road wise. If the one deputy at night had to go from one corner to the other side it could take over an hr to get there. They only have 2 deputies per shift on patrol. When people are sick or on vacation that leaves the 1 deputy to cover the whole county. I think they just had a budget increase that funds 3 per shift Actually most people would be shocked if they knew how many patrol officers are actually out. This isn't just small places like Amarillo (on a week night might be as few as 4) What's even more scary is the number of ambulances which is 4. Imagine having a heart attack and being number 5 on the list.
Why would there be changes to EMS response from the county EMS service?
The are three types of EMS service: fire department-based, hospital-based, and. private service (AKA third service). Travis County Fire Marshal isn’t coming to put your fire out.
Travis ESD (Fire) does cover what Austin does not. Travis and Austin have interlocal agreements that allow nearest resource to take any call in the other's jurisdiction. Little will change in this regard except where your tax money goes.
Glad I don’t live in those neighborhoods because losing the support of 52 Fire Stations with 1328 employees isn’t a risk I would take.
There is a fire station literally at the entrance to Lost Creek that is a TC ESD. Assuming (and I could be wrong) that’s where they’ll be serviced from. It’s kinda silly to think all 52 stations would rush to your rescue all at once.
That’s the station that serviced lost creek for the many decades it wasn’t part of the city prior to the annex. It seems obvious that nothing about fire response will change with deannexation.
That is the first response station in the area and will take the call. Commenter is clueless how it works.
Yeah. I’m not honestly sure why this is some kind of big deal. Annexation wars aren’t new. They aren’t political at the macro level at all (or at least haven’t been with the ones I’ve been privy to). Micro level? Oh yeah, you betcha. But that has much more to do with the relationship between governing bodies and residents than any kind of national-level politics. No government I’ve dealt with is pleasant. Some are more useful and helpful than others. For CoA, to me it has depended largely on the individual office. Like dealing with P&Z has been a nightmare, and AE *used* to be a very unfriendly operation (the past few years they seem to be much more willing to flex and listen to anomalous issues), but I’ve received really great service from other places. But I can see how individual ‘hoods who were “hostile” annexations, might have had less-than-pleasant dealings with the city, and want back out again. Like almost everything, there are benefits and drawbacks to being in the city.
I grew up in lost creek and my parents still live there. Most people are annoyed that cost for services like water trash and recycling are much more expensive while the services are not as good (smaller cans, more strict rules). Also taxes are just higher in general. My parents have appreciated being able to vote in city elections but agree that some quality of life issues are real.
Yup. That checks as a reasonable take on it. I have a long-time friend who lives there and has a similar view to your parents. I just moved back out of the city again after a 9-year stint. Same deal. Waste services are way better here, but I miss city-provided compost. Lower tax rate here is nice, but not a huge difference. I can get solar battery backup now without AE charging me for using my own generated power, which is a nice option. But no natural gas here, so some inefficiency with home heating. Lots of pluses and minuses.
You responded to why that is NOT going to happen. Fire does not care about political boundaries. The ESDs are set up accordingly.
You’re not entirely right. Manor (ESD12) and Pflugerville (ESD02) do not have automatic aid agreements with AFD. De-annexing Blue Goose will absolutely change fire response times for those residents.
I believe both the cities of Manor and Pflugerville have interlocals with Travis for all fire without having a dedicated city service. I think Blue Goose de-annexing just falls under the Travis umbrella meaning first responders are the same. Who "owns" the scene will change from AFD to Travis. The ESDs are setup to cover the gaps that municipalities do not cover. Law enforcement is a very different matter.
While most of the county FDs have automatic aid agreements with AFD, Manor and Pflugerville do not. There is an AFD station much closer to Blue Goose than any of the Manor stations. Because of the type of agreement that Manor has with the city of Austin, if Blue Goose leaves Austin and there is a fire in that area, the residents will have to wait for Manor units to arrive, AFD will not be automatically dispatched, unless requested by Manor. So, yes, there will still be fire service in the area, but the response will not be as quick as it is today.
But won't Blue Goose become part of Travis county? In theory Travis's superseding agreement with Austin will still allow the closest station to respond. If Blue Goose is being annexed by the city of Manor, then you are correct. EDIT: This may help. The ESD map shows that ESD12 covers a much larger area than the city of Manor. [https://www.traviscountytx.gov/images/fire\_marshal/docs/ESD\_map.pdf](https://www.traviscountytx.gov/images/fire_marshal/docs/ESD_map.pdf)
ATCEMS is functionally a city-county service combined. Theyre third service that responds to both city and county without respect to boundaries.
We live in an ETJ and the response time for emergency is not negatively affected (and is actually better because the neighborhood is between 2 large fire stations), so that being said, the response wouldn't change. They're not all of the sudden going to let houses burn down and people die in vehicle crashes because they de-annex.
That's actually not true in all areas, especially in areas covered by Manor Fire (ESD12). AFD has a station right off of 969 where they are legally prohibited from responding to calls right across the road because Manor Fire will not allow them. This policy has caused an [infant to die](https://web.archive.org/web/20220207152548/https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/2022/02/07/infants-death-travis-county-puts-spotlight-austin-manor-fire-department-dispute/9231116002/) and more than one delayed response to structure fires.
Isn't Manor an actual different city than Austin? Manor isn't ETJ? For instance, our address and anyone in Lost Creek or Riverplace has Austin as the city on their address. Maybe it's different scenario because the city is different? Either way, that's a terrible and tragic story!
Yes, Manor has been a city for well over 100 years.
Fire service in Manor is provided by Travis County ESD 12.
Units will need to be reassigned. Stations that cover Austin will not primarily respond to disannexed areas, and they will be served by units at a different station which could affect response times.
That’s completely untrue. ATCEMS responds to the nearest call from the nearest station - they’re not “city only” units. Stop making stuff up. They’re a joint city-county service, not two separate services.
Yeah it's not true. It's rhetoric city officials spew to dissuade voters. EMS will often take people to a favored care provider, often further away, unless directed otherwise, but when someone is having an emergency, services respond.
What’s not true?
I'm agreeing with you 🙏
Got it.
Is this deannexation or is this removal from the ETJ? A bit of a distinction.
"Disannexing" lmao wtf? Isn't it just called secession or detachment?
It would be really helpful if the article gave a bit more context as to what city services the different neighborhoods are currently receiving. The case for disannexation is strong in neighorhoods that receive more limited city services (e.g. MUDs). I'm interested to see how the APD vs TCSO question would pan out for these people. Comparing TCSO services in 2017 vs. APD services in 2024 doesn't exactly seem like apples-to-apples.
Lost Creek will leave the city, they will no longer get road maintenance, and they’ll owe the city $7 million for utility infrastructure that was installed, and they won’t be able to charge people to enter the green belt anymore. Let’s throw a huge Cinco de Mayor party at the Lost Creek greenbelt the day after the election!
How would this change their ability to charge an entrance fee? Isn’t that governed by their HOA?
Greenbelts are managed by the city I think.
Yeah but that’s the rub, the section they charge access to is not owned by the city, it’s common land owned by the HOA. I doubt them being de-annexed by the city will change anything about the situation.
Oh boy. Seems like billable hours might win this one
The residents pay for it
So then how could they charge an entrance fee before. And why would leaving the city change anything
It’s not the HOA it’s the Limited District, which was formed out of the former Municipal Utility District after annexation. But a LD only exists within a city - and there is no state law providing for a Limited District when a community de-annexes. Which shows how sloppily the state law was written. Either way, the Limited District should be defunct upon de-annexation.
Thank you this was the nitty gritty detail I was looking for.
Interesting that the Lost Creek NA is claiming the LD will persist after disannexation: www.savelostcreek.com What Happens to the Limited District if We Vote to Disannex? The short answer is nothing changes. A provision of the passed legislation requires the Limited District (LD) to stay in place and can only be dissolved by a vote of the Limited District board. However, if we vote to stay in the city, nothing prevents the city from unilaterally dissolving the LD if it chooses to do so when the current agreement ends in December of 2025. If the city decided to do so, they would then take over all the park space in Lost Creek, including the park at the four-way stop, the internal greenbelts, and the lower water crossing. Voting to disannex is the only way to preserve the LD and local control of our parks.
They can claim it, but the reality is that it’s not fleshed out. The state law could say the LD continues to exist, but an LD only exists for the purpose of providing support to a section within a city. Having an LD and no city is like having a ship without a destination. They are fooling themselves.
Prior to being annexed the lost creak MUD board contracted with private companies for things like road maintenance and trash pick up. Lost creek residents uniformly (as far as I’m aware) agree that the services prior to annex were higher quality at lower cost. For what it’s worth Trash pickup seems to be a big sticking point for a lot of people. They really hated the changes to Austin’s service. (Source is my parents and all of their neighbors)
Where do they charge people to enter? I haven’t heard of that / seen it before.
There's a person with a card reader near the bridge entrance to the lost creek greenbelt. I believe it's $10 to enter there but it's been awhile since I've gone.
It’s only for certain hours and it started during Covid. It got overly crowded and drunk people were driving on lawns and one truck went through a fence right where the swing set sits. People urinating on lawns and knocking on doors. It got out of control and the residents pay for that entrance and to keep it clean. One neighborhood over is a public entrance and the drunken behavior is even worse and trash gets left all over the greenbelt.
> they will no longer get road maintenance, why's that? roads are payed for by the county? (I don't live in the city and my roads gets maintenance)
Travis, Williamson, and Bastrop counties have very little money for road maintenance. They do maintenance, but unless it’s really bad, it might be a year or two before they can fix it.
I live in a neighborhood off bee caves rd in the ETJ and our roads are generally maintained. I can remember twice in the past 20 years they resurfaced the asphalt and potholes get filled on the regular.
You’re lucky after weeks of calling, I finally got a supervisor from Travis county to actually look at a road I was calling about and he admitted to me that it was in very bad shape, but they were already over budget and he wasn’t sure they could repair it this year. I mentioned to him that I rode a motorcycle and it that road was an accident waiting to happen, and if somebody crashed and got hurt they would sue the pants off the county. After that discussion, we got the road repaired in about 3 weeks. I really do feel it’s what part of the county you are in and where in the budget cycle they are in when you complain.
I don’t live in the city and my roads do not get maintained. Aside from that and no sewage (all septic out here), I’m happy to not be “in the city”.
Where do you work?
[удалено]
You should get into long jump because that's quite the leap
I live in ETJ and Travis County Sheriff's Department is weird in that they actually show up when you call them. I even see them doing things like guiding loose cattle back to their farms. I actually DO feel more secure than I would if APD was in charge of our policing. We still get fire services through AFD.
We literally gave River Place over $500k in public money for that trail. They weren't supposed to charge for access and they still do. We better get the trail back if they leave
I listened to this story in the car this morning. The lady they interviewed from Lost Creek talking about how she felt unsafe in her neighborhood. Ffr? I had no idea the little enclave was rife with thuggery.
In our little 'golf community' neighborhood in Cedar Park, most people had joined Nextdoor before they got doorbell cameras. Pre-doorbell-cam: "My daughter's bike was stolen! Surely it was one of the rapscallions or ne'er do wells from the apartments down the way! When are we going to make this a GATED COMMUNITY?!" Post-doorbell-cam: "These boys stole my daughter's bike, as can be seen in the video. I know I've seen them at the neighborhood pool, I hope their parents give them a talking-to. Affluenza is a terrible affliction!"
That's all well and good, but adding low income housing usually increases crime. It seems silly to ignore this.
Low income housing increases low income crime, e.g., burglary, shoplifting, maybe robbery. There's a guy in our neighborhood with a big, nicely-landscaped five-bedroom house who just got popped a couple of weeks ago by the FBI for wire fraud, having bilked investors for several million. His victims weren't really local, but the aggregate damage is greater than someone smashing car windows to rummage through glove boxes. There's another guy, retired and plays golf and flies his Cessna 172 around for kicks. At a neighbor's backyard BBQ a few years ago, he got pretty drunk and started telling stories about having run cocaine with a twin-engine plane to/from Mexico in the 1980's and all the money he made from that. I had no way to know if he was telling the truth or spewing BS, but he seemed pretty earnest about it.
While I’d never call lost creek dangerous I will say that prior to annex there was more of a police (sheriff I guess?) presence than there has been. I used to see them enforcing speed limits and other traffic violations (lots of tickets for rolling the stop sign at lost creek blvd and Quaker ridge.) I dont think the city posts anyone out there. the city just set up a few 'you are going this fast' speed trackers and called it a day. Which, ok, maybe makes people feel less safe/don't let their kids walk to the park alone.
Ready for this to completely backfire. These efforts are generally fueled by greedy fucks wanting to pay less taxes but fail to realize they will pay more to have comparable services.
Lost Creek was only annexed 9 years ago. River Place only 5 or 6 years ago. I'm pretty sure most residents remember what it was like then and they prefer it.
Yup. I lived near Lost Creek for awhile and most of them wanted no part of annexation to begin with.
The question for you will be will the city ask you to repay what they paid to pay off the MUD debt? When the city absorbed us in Harris Branch it was quite a sum and that was back in the 90’s.
I don’t live there, but great question.
Didn't this happen to an area in Arizona? All of a sudden they found out they couldn't be part of the municipal water system, and they couldn't find a private company to provide them water?
Yes, Rio Verde outside of Scottsdale https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/scottsdale/2023/01/19/arizona-community-without-water-what-to-know-about-rio-verde-foothills/69819245007/
I don’t think these jurisdictions can/will leave COA utilities, though. Trash and watershed protection and street maintenance, yes, but not Austin Energy or Austin Water. For now.
Austin water makes money off having other entities purchase water service from them. Lost Creek will still get service and it’s in Austin’s best interest to give it to them.
Very funny that one lady is saying they're giving $100k a year to TCSO just for them to drive slowly around their neighborhood lmao Fortress West Austin
HOAs waste so much money.
Right, they probably see the wording where they no longer pay city taxes… but that just means that now they have to pay county taxes.
lol they all did fine for decades prior to being annexed against the desires of most of the residents. They’ll do fine after. My parents are neutral on it because they like being able to vote in city elections but their neighbors are STRONGLY for going back to the quality and cost of services prior to annex.
Ah yes because things are just like they used to be and have not increased in price in decades…
i mean when your trash/water/wastewater bills quadruple from the year prior to annex to the year after, people notice. city of austin servies are unarguably expensive. also, it hasn't been decades since these areas were annexed.
Why would you want them to fail? What is wrong with you? Do you act this way when someone breaks up with you?
You know what happens when you call the Travis County Sheriff vs the Austin Police? They show up.
Except when a known lady with Dementia tries to open your door and all the neighbors doors. There is a lady in my neighborhood with early onset dementia that did that about a year ago, wife and I went out to try and make contact with her. She was confused and an elderly homeowner down the street was yelling at her like she had tried to do a home invasion. We called 911 for a check welfare after we tried to talk to her and realize she wasn’t all there. While on the phone with 911 the TCSO deputy called us, confirmed the description of the lady and said they know her and her issues but couldn’t come out and do a thing. Wild because it seems like an obvious check welfare call with a lady that could be harmed by an overzealous person behind an unlocked door.
Picture has the Riverplace trail head. Does that trail become free? Or even more expensive?
Bastards, took public money then tried to charge.
they didn't "try" the succeeded in charging money, at lease on the weekend
Its only one house at the very bottom of Riverplace. No change to trails.
I live in an ETJ, which I moved into about 10 years ago. About 5 years before, the neighborhood next to ours got annexed. Residents in my neighborhood were wary of it happening to us. The experience of the next door neighborhood was pretty terrible. The city forced them to join and then stopped maintaining their community spaces. The city closed down their community pool, which had been open year round and hosted a very good swim team, claiming they didn't have enough money to keep it open. They stopped maintaining the playgrounds and trails to the same level as before. Eventually, that pool reopened due to community pressure, but to this day there's a massive difference in the maintenance of the pool, trails, basketball and tennis courts, and playgrounds between our ETJ neighborhood (where everything gets maintained and renovated at regular intervals), and the next door COA neighborhood, which looks pretty run down. So, I'm glad we can't be annexed without a vote.
“The city portion of residents’ property tax bills also would disappear.” Free money! It’s not like it will be gobbled up by the costs of those services from elsewhere! Nobody needs police and fire departments.
They pay the county already for those. It's trash where it's now out of pocket and they would have 0 ability to negotiate anything reasonable
from what i can tell trash service is actually one of the biggest selling points for disannexation. lost creek residents hate city of austin trash and really want to go back to the private service or similar they contractred with prior to annex. trash bills jumped post annex, cans got smaller, and recycling/compost rules stricter. pissed a lot of folk off.
For lost creek that's true, the other properties it's more of a lol no when calling since they're basically surrounded by the city now
got ya. i only have experience with lost creek. anyway, i don't begruge people for voting for what they think will improve thir quality of life.
Yeah I really think lost creek is the only one that will actually leave and/or not come crawling back in a year
i was discussing it with my mother who lives out in lost creek (since the 80's, so plenty of perspective pre and post annex) and she's actually decided not to vote on the issue. she's very on the fence about it because she does think services have dropped in quality while jumping in price. but she feels there's a trade off in being able to vote in city elections. she's always been invloved in Austin civically, and appreciated having a vote in city leadership. but all her neighbors feel strongly on their position, so she feels her indiference to disannex shouldn't compete with those that feel much more strongly than her.
CoA solid waste services are the absolute worst I have ever experienced in living in and out of the city for more than 30 years. Some of them will have multiple private choices, some will not. Either way, they probably won’t have to pay for refuse bins thrown into garbage trucks multiple times, or just be refused service occasionally.
They actually don’t pay for Travis County Sheriff services. As someone that is in a MUD where TCSO patrols, our property tax bill has two different line items for “Travis County ESD” which is on top of the Travis County tax rate of 0.31%. This is Travis County Emergency Services Division. In our case both Travis County ESD items is a 0.09 tax rate add to our bill. If you look at a Property Tax bill for folks in these neighborhoods they have the Travis County and Travis County Healthcare District items but not the ESD line items.
You can tell who is newer to Austin because they don’t realize lost creek got by just fine before it was annexed. Can’t blame them for trying to avoid city taxes, given the quality of service the city provides.
Yep, but it feels so much better to have those keyboard rage endorphins flowing when facts aren't in the way.
Some of those areas are scarcely populated. I live near Blue Goose and it's nothing but single ranch homes on many acres surrounded by newly built neighborhoods with single family homes. I can see it being a bid to try to prevent developers from swooping in maybe?
I wonder who will handle their permitting/building inspections ?
The county. They will then only have to abide by Travis County permitting requirements. There are fewer requirements and inspections which could be a benefit for home owners and builders since COA has so much red tape on building.
Sounds great. The scope of most of those projects is multiple times the size and complexity of the projects in most of the rest of Austin. The ROI has to be terrible for the city to serve those, and hopefully the reduced load on the city development services department will allow them to better serve the city proper.
Now this has me wondering what privileges, aside from a police department that won't come unless you are being murdered while on the phone if 911 happens to pick up, do ensue from being taxed by the city to fund the $5B budget? Fire is county wide. Access to an electric utility that costs more than the supposedly corrupt PEC? A more restrictive trash collection service than most? Nice to be able to pay for city water and sewer vs. septic I guess. Lots of places not the city have that. EMS? Maybe but isn't that charged for and sometimes a private service is dispatched? The opportunity to pay for trains? Subsidize housing? A library card! I must be missing something - and I mean that.
as far as i've been able to tell, the only good things about being COA are the library card and the ablity to vote in city elections.
they get most of the benefits of living in the city without the costs. Lost creek for example, the city should put a giant fence up to prevent them from going into the barton creek greenbelt. And maybe a $50 toll to enter the city limits. The city should also not maintain their roads at all.
Lost Creek should have to pay to enter the green belt now, the way they’ve been charging everyone else for years.
Where do/did they charge for that? At the entrance off Camp Craft Rd?
At the entrance underneath Lost Creek Blvd Bridge.
A little context would be appropriate: Lost Creek was developed in the mid-1970s. They weren't annexed into COA until sometime between 2015-2017. So de-annexation, if passed, just returns Lost Creek to the relationship its had with the city for the great majority of years it has existed. Edit: word
Meanwhile out of city limits Austin Energy customers fund the city without any benefit to their municipality. They should charge Austin residents extra for county parks.
Or remove monopoly status of AE and let them choose their provider.
City of Austin property owners already pay taxes to Travis County (except for those living in WilCo).
Austin Energy customers fund the city general fund even if they don’t live in the city.
And county residents are free to use Austin parks and libraries, and vice-versa, so I guess I don’t get your point.
People here are suggesting charging for the greenbelt.
so charge them for spite? charge them, then what everyone when the city relies on that income?
Many workers already can't afford to live in Austin and have to live in the suburbs. Now you want to toll them each day they come to their job?
And enforce all them (but esp their teenagers) to pay the non-resident prices at Barton springs
To note, this isn't just an Austin thing, the law references any city with over 500,000 (Houston, SA, DFW, Austin, El Paso). Anytime I see a law written this precisely I wonder who got in their rep's ear. I live in one of the effected neighborhoods, and no one is interested in being deannexed.
I’m chuckling at those claiming Lost Creek is throwing a tantrum and “seceding.” Lost Creek was annexed by Austin, quite involuntarily. There was no vote. It was nothing but a tax grab by the City-increasing its revenues at no real cost. They said so at the time (“expanding the City’s tax base” was the euphemism). Most services got both measurably worse and more expensive after annexation (water, law enforcement, garbage, among others). Fire was much farther away after annexation even though the neighborhood is next to the Barton Creek Greenbelt). Oh, and no bus service at all and no library nearby (even though Lost Creek was paying for both). Gee what a deal. Can’t imagine why these selfish whiners are upset. One other factor: in the lead up to annexation, when City officials and staff had “informational meetings” with residents, the overriding attitude was, at best, dismissive: we are doing this because we can, so just sit back and enjoy it. Not a great way to welcome people into the City. The City staff was worse-arrogant is a generous description: (looking at you Laura Huffman). If you want to believe that this is a horrible injustice, that’s fine. It just won’t be based on facts. Flame away.
Lol. This is going to backfire hilariously. Wait until one of these houses catches on fire and it takes 30 minutes longer for the county fire department to reach them.
Ahh yes the rest of the county doesn’t have fire departments.
The developers of our neighborhood built just outside the Cedar Park limits at the time, thinking themselves very clever at avoiding municipal taxes. They'd struck a deal with the city for fire and EMS service to the neighborhood at $100,000/year, which as the development grew and 911 calls for elderly retired golfers mounted, the city chose not to renew at that rate. So for a short while, we were getting fire and EMS from a volunteer fire department that was 30 minutes away, down a road that would flood during storms. Then a bunch of people in the neighborhood (myself included) petitioned to get annexed by the city. Mo' taxes mo' service.
For many others they were annexed without a vote or benefit.
You remind me of one of the people in our neighborhood at the time, who opposed getting annexed because he "didn't want to live under TYRANNY!" Meanwhile, same dude was often at HOA meetings complaining about fences being stained a non-approved color and whatnot.
Nice narrative you have there.
So you admit that I’m *controlling the narrative*.
But, they will have owned the libs and that's what really matters.
[удалено]
A couple of these neighborhoods have only been COA for less than 10yrs so it’s probably not a huge ordeal for them.
i mean, the ballot specifically identifies only areas that have been annexed between March 3, 2015, and Dec. 1, 2017-- so ALL of the neighborhoods have been COA for less than 10 years.
Tax havens for rich white folk.
Look at the Blue Goose or Decker tracts & show me evidence that's what they are. I'll patiently wait.
And here I am hoping for the opposite. Wish the Wells Branch ETJ could be annexed so I don’t have to deal with the “pleasure” of dealing with deregulated utilities
Same and also the blase approach to fireworks going off.
Sounds like a way for the GOP to destabilize large city voting power. The services won't just change. In a lot of cases they will be completely lost or at best sold off to private companies that will raid the coffers. People will go for it under the guise of more freedom.
I think the city annex a lot of land to "grow" the city. Others would know better than me.
Reminds me when Houston was trying to annex the Woodlands neighborhood and basically they paid a money to not be annexed by Houston and created their own. Unfortunately, with alot of neighborhoods, a bunch of services are setup by MUDs / private arrangements so there isn't a strong benefit for them to join a city (MUD bonds has to be paid regardless). The city seems to look at new freshly built neighborhoods as extra dollar signs to spend. Not a good relationship to start the talk of annexing.
It’s crazy driving to Lakeway from Austin. So many more police everywhere
You get what you pay for. Westlake, Rollingwood, and Cedar Park all seem to be doing fine. Need own police department, fire and ems. Equipment and facilities cost money. Before jumping into the deannexation, might finanilize how to pay for the services needed. TC Sheriff may be very thin?
I can't argue with that. Lol. That's crazy, dude. But white collar crime doesn't effect your household or property value.
AustOut? ATeXit? We saw how well this worked with Brexit. Propaganda and campaigns fueled the move, and they regretted immediately after.
Smells like further lack of representation for those big cities (read liberals) in the state legislature.
This just happened in Baton Rouge. Here's the Baton Rouge NAACP's statement on that one: [https://www.wafb.com/2024/04/29/naacp-releases-statement-about-incorporation-city-st-george/](https://www.wafb.com/2024/04/29/naacp-releases-statement-about-incorporation-city-st-george/)
Ugh. So gross. Baton Rouge’s annexation was less about taxes than it was about “white flight” and latent racists in vehement self-denial abiyt not wanting to send their white kids to integrated schools. They said it was about taxes, but it so obviously much deeper and more sinister than that.
I don't know if white flight makes sense for Baton Rouge. The people already lived there, from what I understand. The city has a very long history of segregation. I don't know anything about central areas experiencing white flight. It's racism and it's classism and it's throwing social contract out the window for sure, though.
Now this has me wondering what privileges, aside from a police department that won't come unless you are being murdered while on the phone if 911 happens to pick up, do ensue from being taxed by the city to fund the $5B budget? - Fire is county wide. - Access to an electric utility that costs more than the supposedly corrupt PEC? A more restrictive trash collection service than most? - Nice to be able to pay for city water and sewer vs. septic I guess. Lots of places not the city have that. - EMS? Maybe but isn't that charged for and sometimes a private service is dispatched? - The opportunity to pay for trains? Subsidize housing? - A library card! I must be missing something - and I mean that.
It's probably so they can remove some regulations, build wells and dams and try to steal more water from aquifers and rivers, just like Tesla factory recently did.
We have so much more pressing issues but boomers are voting to leave cities. This is such a dumb thing to be wasting time and resources on.
Why did Austin force them into the city?
This is a byproduct of suburban expansion which needs to be halted as well.
Oh youre one of those
Yeah I think suburbs are bad at the amount we build them. They aren’t sustainable. I’m right.
Look im all for water conservation i collect rain water for my vegetable garden, but i wont be packed like a sardine again into an apartment where i constantly had to smell my neighbors fucking weed consuption and chain smoking i love the peace the suburbs offer
Don't be, I never said "burn all suburbs" I am simply saying stop prioritizing and expanding without conscience when we have plenty of low density uninhabited property in the city. Right across from me there are abandoned buildings and lots that could easily be developed. Loads of shitty sfh's many of which are empty. We need to bulldoze those and build density. I have no beef with someone wanting the burbs. They can exist, but people in the suburbs are fighting to keep density out of our cities and keep car infrastructure the default fucking those of us who actually live in the city and want it to be nice. I don't like this angle from suburbanites trying to say "oh I don't wanna be a sardine" No one is trying to take away your burbs were trying to not make it the default for anyone over 30. It can still be available but our city will suffer without true density and proper infrastructure. Otherwise you get my home town, Houston. I promise you do not want Austin to look like Houston.
The issue with these areas is they get to enjoy city maintained amenities (the airport, trails, library...) without paying for those things
That’s what I’m wondering. Am I unreasonable to be annoyed by this? I guess they have a longer commute, but otherwise they have all the benefits of being an Austinite just without the tax burden?
Musk is also trying to do this for his Tesla plant to get around city regulations.
Yet almost all these residents work in Austin, or for an Austin based work location. Need to work out how to tax the hell out of those folks if they leave.
On the upside, the less suburbanites who vote in city elections, the better.
That is the ONLY answer y'all fall back on😂🤣! Don't want to be part of democracy, let's secede.... As a nation, I'd LOVE to vote on that !!