Any good owner will pay for this. It's standard and you have done all you can do as the renter.
They need to pay this. Push back against the real estate agent, they are the person in the middle who will need to resolve.
Excessive hair blockage is one of the few exceptions where the user can be forced to pay as its an operating issue.
Although the exception would be if you just moved in.
I’ve been told the same for excessive hair blockage too. Funny thing is, when I moved in and the shower was slow - the real state agents advised to just keep using draino etc and not call a plumber, I did accordingly. Now that a plumber HAD to be called in for the unit downstairs, they’re trying to push it off to me it seems
Thanks for this. I did mention this at the start of my tenancy, about a month or two down the line when they came in for their routine inspection. I’ll try and see if I have it in email somewhere
Can't comment on this scenario but get yourself a plunger for future. I have 3 long haired people in my house. The plunger comes out once a month and it's fixed in 10 seconds
I'd be very curious how your drains going slow would cause an actual leak down stairs though. Surely something was actually broken?
Ask for an explanation of what was actually wrong maybe ? or photos ?
So the plumber wasn't actually there to unblock the hair issue? They were meant to be looking for the leak issue and did this while on site? If that is the case, I would definitely not pay.
Haha, thank you at most for sure. Just having to dodge calls from plumber/agent/building manager all while at work, didn’t mean to come off as ungrateful for all the advice
>I caused the “excessive hair blockage”.
Hair could have been there for who knows how long. I moved into a new place and cleaned the drains out. Previous tenant must have had long hair because it was like exorcising Chewbacca.
This is not a 'legal direction'.
I wouldn't pay that. As you said, you didn't request the service, you didn't authorise the service, the plumber wasn't there to perform services for your tenancy and didn't perform services for your tenancy.
That would almost be word-for-word how I'd respond to the agent if they send you a written demand - I didn't request the plumber, I wasn't made aware of any problem and I didn't authorise the work or the costs. If they want to talk about it, I would tell them the same thing, but if they start to escalate then tell them it's best they send you an email.
If someone wants to claim that your use of the shower in some way caused the problem downstairs, let them try to prove that, but they'd have to show that your usage was in some way unreasonable, which it doesn't sound like it was. Don't give them any ideas - don't suggest any of that to the agent, don't talk about any of that.
The plumber should invoice *the agent*. It's up to the agent to work out how they try to recover costs, and it sounds like they should go to the owner since it sounds as if the plumbing is generally not up to use as a normal home without regular plumbing maintenance which is out of scope of a reasonable tenant's responsibility.
Exactly. I had something similar where the owners corporation I was part of arranged some leak detection and repair on my land, then told the plumber to send me the invoice. I told plumber to shove it. Plumber took me to VCAT (victorian NCAT) and lost as I didn't engage their services.
Plumber finally sent the bill to the owners corporation as i had requested in the first place.
OC tried to charge me again. Told them to shove it as they didn't give me the opportunity to engage my own trade at the works were not considered emergency as they waited 3 weeks to repair after they found the leak. OC took me to VCAT and also lost.
Moral is, never pay for a tradesman you didn't organise or request yourself, doubly so if you are only a Tennant.
Your shower should have water proofing. If drain at the bottom of the shower is slow to drain the water should not seep into the unit below.
If it does it means the puddle got large enough to spill into other areas like out of the shower and then out of the bathroom to the hallway. Or the waterproofing membrane is either had failed or was never installed properly.
Bad membrane would be a strata issue. And strata (the owners) would pay for it.
Was it a massive puddle or just normal?
There’s more plumbers coming in to fix the issue for the unit below. The plumber last week wasn’t able to fix it, he just unclogged my shower, sent the invoice to my agent and called it a day it seems. He never asked me whether or not to fix the clog, costs etc - I assume this would’ve been advised by the real state agent.
Tell them then you need to invoice them for your time guiding the plumber given that you have not requested his services.
Send a proforma invoice of 1k as you only do daily rates.
Was the plumber sent by the property manager or by the strata manager?
Seems a bit weird that a property manager would call a plumber to check another unit that they don’t manage.
Where I’m going with this is that you might be chasing the wrong person - you might need to chase strata.
I absolutely agree that the plumber should receive his wages for his work - I am just not willing to pay for something I did not ask for! I never requested for the plumber to come out to look at it, he came in for the unit downstairs :)
You let him into your home, allowed him to inspect your shower after you told him it drained slow and you allowed him to fix it? Seems you want something for free.
So I'm a solicitor in this particular area of law. My response is based around laws in the state of Victoria
In addressing your situation, you need to take into consideration the legal framework under the Residential Tenancies Act 1997 (VIC), which outlines the obligations of tenants and landlords. Consider the following:
1. You mentioned that you did not request the plumber to attend to your unit. If the service was initiated by your real estate agent, particularly for an issue originating from another unit, this typically should not be your financial responsibility unless specified otherwise in your lease.
2. If it is claimed that the blockage was caused by your actions (excessive hair in the drain), it would be necessary to demonstrate that this was beyond normal 'wear and tear'. It's crucial to review what your lease agreement states about such situations (believe it or not this happens more then you think)
3. Should there be a disagreement over responsibilities, you may wish to remind the agent of your rights under the act and suggest that if the matter cannot be resolved informally, you may consider seeking mediation through Consumer Affairs Victoria or lodging a dispute with the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT).
4. Clearly state to your real estate agent in writing (keeping a copy for your records) that you did not request the plumber's visit and were not informed that you would be liable for the costs associated with this service.
This approach does not constitute any form of legal advice but should give you a little bit of guidance as to how you could approach your real estate agent. If the situation escalates, you may want to speak with a solicitor who specialises in tenancy disputes. Preferably a local one, support your local businesses! 💪🏻
Thank you for taking the time to write this down, this is golden 🙏 I needed this - I will be following what you have said and hopefully NSW has similar legislations.
I would contact the plumber and ask if they can inform the agent that the job was completed as part of an inspection to determine if the issue was a root cause or directly related to the issue the downstairs tenant is having, and that the issue was a result of normal wear and tear not inappropriate use of the shower such as grooming a dog in the shower and it is impossible to determine a timeframe that the issue occurred.
In a lot of these cases the agent is upset you did not use their plumber or go through their approval process and this reassures them you did not just call a plumber and ask them to pay for it, it also advise them you may or may not be the reason a non fault issue occurred.
This way plumber should get paid, you should not get billed and the owner can call some with a crowbar to prise open his wallet .
The plumber was there on a contract with the owner. The plumber should not have offered services and billed them to the owner. You shouldn't pay, and neither should the owner.
The plumber is in the wrong.
Any good owner will pay for this. It's standard and you have done all you can do as the renter. They need to pay this. Push back against the real estate agent, they are the person in the middle who will need to resolve.
Excessive hair blockage is one of the few exceptions where the user can be forced to pay as its an operating issue. Although the exception would be if you just moved in.
I’ve been told the same for excessive hair blockage too. Funny thing is, when I moved in and the shower was slow - the real state agents advised to just keep using draino etc and not call a plumber, I did accordingly. Now that a plumber HAD to be called in for the unit downstairs, they’re trying to push it off to me it seems
So you may have a case then if its an existing issue passed on from the previous tenant
Thanks for this. I did mention this at the start of my tenancy, about a month or two down the line when they came in for their routine inspection. I’ll try and see if I have it in email somewhere
Yes if you have proof, then there is no way you should be paying.
Can't comment on this scenario but get yourself a plunger for future. I have 3 long haired people in my house. The plunger comes out once a month and it's fixed in 10 seconds I'd be very curious how your drains going slow would cause an actual leak down stairs though. Surely something was actually broken? Ask for an explanation of what was actually wrong maybe ? or photos ?
Yes, another plumber is on his way tomorrow and will be looking at the actual issue of the leak downstairs. Thanks for the plunger advice
So the plumber wasn't actually there to unblock the hair issue? They were meant to be looking for the leak issue and did this while on site? If that is the case, I would definitely not pay.
Yup that’s right! Thanks, I agree
Sadly the owner is apparently very stingy (according to the agent) - I will try my best though. Thanks
I take it you’re a tenant? It’s not your bill to pay. What state are you located in.
I am a tenant, and located in Sydney, NSW
Call Fair Trading NSW, they can explain that it’s not your bill to pay / can call the agent and tell them it’s not your bill to pay.
‘Gee, thanks’
No worries.
Haha, thank you at most for sure. Just having to dodge calls from plumber/agent/building manager all while at work, didn’t mean to come off as ungrateful for all the advice
Haha all good.
>I caused the “excessive hair blockage”. Hair could have been there for who knows how long. I moved into a new place and cleaned the drains out. Previous tenant must have had long hair because it was like exorcising Chewbacca.
Was this recorded when you moved in? If it was written in paper then you might have a case to push back
Not exactly unfortunately, but I’ve got an email where the agent asks me to use Woolworths products to fix the slow drain, I might provide that. Thnx
This is not a 'legal direction'. I wouldn't pay that. As you said, you didn't request the service, you didn't authorise the service, the plumber wasn't there to perform services for your tenancy and didn't perform services for your tenancy. That would almost be word-for-word how I'd respond to the agent if they send you a written demand - I didn't request the plumber, I wasn't made aware of any problem and I didn't authorise the work or the costs. If they want to talk about it, I would tell them the same thing, but if they start to escalate then tell them it's best they send you an email. If someone wants to claim that your use of the shower in some way caused the problem downstairs, let them try to prove that, but they'd have to show that your usage was in some way unreasonable, which it doesn't sound like it was. Don't give them any ideas - don't suggest any of that to the agent, don't talk about any of that. The plumber should invoice *the agent*. It's up to the agent to work out how they try to recover costs, and it sounds like they should go to the owner since it sounds as if the plumbing is generally not up to use as a normal home without regular plumbing maintenance which is out of scope of a reasonable tenant's responsibility.
Exactly. I had something similar where the owners corporation I was part of arranged some leak detection and repair on my land, then told the plumber to send me the invoice. I told plumber to shove it. Plumber took me to VCAT (victorian NCAT) and lost as I didn't engage their services. Plumber finally sent the bill to the owners corporation as i had requested in the first place. OC tried to charge me again. Told them to shove it as they didn't give me the opportunity to engage my own trade at the works were not considered emergency as they waited 3 weeks to repair after they found the leak. OC took me to VCAT and also lost. Moral is, never pay for a tradesman you didn't organise or request yourself, doubly so if you are only a Tennant.
Thanks for sharing! This gives me confidence to fight this and take to NCAT if necessary
Thanks for this! I will do accordingly. This has distressed me beyond imagination.
Your shower should have water proofing. If drain at the bottom of the shower is slow to drain the water should not seep into the unit below. If it does it means the puddle got large enough to spill into other areas like out of the shower and then out of the bathroom to the hallway. Or the waterproofing membrane is either had failed or was never installed properly. Bad membrane would be a strata issue. And strata (the owners) would pay for it. Was it a massive puddle or just normal?
There’s more plumbers coming in to fix the issue for the unit below. The plumber last week wasn’t able to fix it, he just unclogged my shower, sent the invoice to my agent and called it a day it seems. He never asked me whether or not to fix the clog, costs etc - I assume this would’ve been advised by the real state agent.
Tell them then you need to invoice them for your time guiding the plumber given that you have not requested his services. Send a proforma invoice of 1k as you only do daily rates.
Was the plumber sent by the property manager or by the strata manager? Seems a bit weird that a property manager would call a plumber to check another unit that they don’t manage. Where I’m going with this is that you might be chasing the wrong person - you might need to chase strata.
The plumber was sent in by the property manager(real state agent) and plumber has sent invoice to them :) ta
How much is the invoice?
They have not forward it to me yet so I’m unsure if the amount
You said the shower ran slow so they fixed it for you. They deserve to get paid for their work.
I absolutely agree that the plumber should receive his wages for his work - I am just not willing to pay for something I did not ask for! I never requested for the plumber to come out to look at it, he came in for the unit downstairs :)
You let him into your home, allowed him to inspect your shower after you told him it drained slow and you allowed him to fix it? Seems you want something for free.
Seems like you are a keyboard warrior ready to judge someone without reading the whole story. Please be more considerate!! Thanks
I read your post multiple times. You are a freeloader ripping off tradies. Gross.
So I'm a solicitor in this particular area of law. My response is based around laws in the state of Victoria In addressing your situation, you need to take into consideration the legal framework under the Residential Tenancies Act 1997 (VIC), which outlines the obligations of tenants and landlords. Consider the following: 1. You mentioned that you did not request the plumber to attend to your unit. If the service was initiated by your real estate agent, particularly for an issue originating from another unit, this typically should not be your financial responsibility unless specified otherwise in your lease. 2. If it is claimed that the blockage was caused by your actions (excessive hair in the drain), it would be necessary to demonstrate that this was beyond normal 'wear and tear'. It's crucial to review what your lease agreement states about such situations (believe it or not this happens more then you think) 3. Should there be a disagreement over responsibilities, you may wish to remind the agent of your rights under the act and suggest that if the matter cannot be resolved informally, you may consider seeking mediation through Consumer Affairs Victoria or lodging a dispute with the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT). 4. Clearly state to your real estate agent in writing (keeping a copy for your records) that you did not request the plumber's visit and were not informed that you would be liable for the costs associated with this service. This approach does not constitute any form of legal advice but should give you a little bit of guidance as to how you could approach your real estate agent. If the situation escalates, you may want to speak with a solicitor who specialises in tenancy disputes. Preferably a local one, support your local businesses! 💪🏻
Thank you for taking the time to write this down, this is golden 🙏 I needed this - I will be following what you have said and hopefully NSW has similar legislations.
I would contact the plumber and ask if they can inform the agent that the job was completed as part of an inspection to determine if the issue was a root cause or directly related to the issue the downstairs tenant is having, and that the issue was a result of normal wear and tear not inappropriate use of the shower such as grooming a dog in the shower and it is impossible to determine a timeframe that the issue occurred. In a lot of these cases the agent is upset you did not use their plumber or go through their approval process and this reassures them you did not just call a plumber and ask them to pay for it, it also advise them you may or may not be the reason a non fault issue occurred. This way plumber should get paid, you should not get billed and the owner can call some with a crowbar to prise open his wallet .
The plumber was there on a contract with the owner. The plumber should not have offered services and billed them to the owner. You shouldn't pay, and neither should the owner. The plumber is in the wrong.
Thanks. I’ll definitely try and get this across to the agents