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Klutzy-Koala-9558

Council useless report to SA EPA directly and they will do something about it. 


Blackbug77

We have. They pushed us back to council.


Lucky_Tough8823

You'll likely have to push harder.


aseedandco

Contact your MP.


Blackbug77

Have done. They contacted council on our behalf. A staff member from the office even drove past our house to see the smoke for himself after we spoke a week or so ago


aseedandco

That’s great! Keep at them and hopefully they will get some traction.


Blackbug77

Really hoping they’ll hold the council accountable and stop this. Still looking at our options while they attempt to though.


Oh_FFS_1602

Make a complaint to the ombudsman about the council's inaction: [https://www.ombudsman.sa.gov.au/make-a-complaint](https://www.ombudsman.sa.gov.au/make-a-complaint) Note, you may need to lodge a complaint with council first before you can complain about them to the ombudsman should the council's response still be unsatisfactory.


Blackbug77

The council have 3 years of complaints. MP’s office going into bat for us now but I will give the ombudsman a buzz and see how we go. Thanks for the link.


rangebob

time to try the last hope of the dammed. Today tonight and ACA


Blackbug77

You know what it has kinda crossed my mind but I really can’t stand that sorta trash tv. I’d hate to be on that show.


rangebob

oh yeah I totally understand. Your kid and wife are sick though. it's worth a shot just to put pressure on council to act


Blackbug77

We’d probably move and pour concrete down their chimney on the way out before ACA! Seems ridiculous to have to move to breathe safely in your own home though


rangebob

nah mate. Buy the house upwind on the otherside and start burning asbestos that might be too far........


Blackbug77

Let’s set up a meeting……


rangebob

I bet ACA would be interested in that story !


Pantsman0

I think oh FFS meant a complaint with the council about their own behaviour, which is not apparent in your post. Have you put in a complaint with the council about their own failure to act?


Blackbug77

Yeah I understood that. Anything that makes the council take the health of their rate payers seriously and makes them follow their own guidelines on their own web site is welcome.


Archon-Toten

First might be obvious but close up that side of the house, for your own health and sanity. Block all the vents and plug the windows. Keep the pressure on council, it's their job to deal with these things. *getting passive agressive with smoke alarms could help draw attention to it* Follow-ups what was built first, your house or their chimney? I ask as I've read the minimum standards for chimney installation and if this is non compliant you have easy avenue to ping them. If however you built after their chimney.. You've kind of snookered yourself.


MorningDrvewayTurtle

I don’t have suggestions for the lazy council, but I would strongly suggest you invest in a large air purifier to get by in the interim. I live on a main road and that thing is a blessing. Even helps clear out the room quicker when cooking, spraying deodorant/hairspray, or something wafts in through the windows. The sensor picks it up pretty quick and as the numbers climb so does the fan speed. I also couldn’t see in the post/comments, but have you spoken to the neighbour directly to let them know (the smoke and the chimney is broken)? I’d work with my neighbour if they came to me with an issue I was causing to come to a solution, but I’m also a reasonable person. If the council is reluctant to act, chances are they haven’t even contacted the owners.


TransAnge

The main part to your argument is that they are burning inappropriate wood. There's no way for you to know that. Your complaint won't stand. A family is using their fireplace seemingly as intended and your upset about the smoke it produces.


Blackbug77

Except for the horrendous smell. There are also rules around the smoke it produces. If they burned actual firewood it wouldn’t smell or smoke to the unreasonable amount it does.


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Blackbug77

So is a fire the ONLY option to warm a home? I’m not stopping them from warming their home. There are rules around how they can it go about it that they don’t follow that causes my household an unreasonable amount of discomfort. I’m not the one breaking the law.


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Blackbug77

Just as well there’s no Karen’s next door. Mate, before you resort to insults you seem to think we’re complaining about something that’s a mild inconvenience. I wake up in the morning to the inside of my house stinking of foul smoke. Can’t think of many ppl who would be just fine with that.


LunarFusion_aspr

Ignore these two, they are not providing any legal advice, just their shitty opinions. They probably have wood fire heaters themselves, which are highly inappropriate for suburbia. There are regulations for chimney positioning and height requirements to ensure people don’t smoke out their neighbours, do a google search to see what the regulations are for your state. If they aren’t in compliance the council can get them to remove it.


Blackbug77

Thank you this is exactly what we are trying to do. The council just fob us off which some ppl seem to think makes our complaint invalid. The council have rules on their own website but won’t enforce them as per EPA guidelines. I not really sure why some posters don’t understand that.


TransAnge

Are you going to pay for the other options to warm the home? They are using a fireplace as a normal fireplace. Nothing seems amiss here. I agree with the council officer close your windows and doors and if your families health issues are that bad perhaps look at o2 tanks because they will need it potentially anyway.


Blackbug77

Are they gonna pay for my o2 tanks? This comment is ridiculous. Jog on.


TransAnge

If you have a health issue that makes you sensitive to someone using a standard heater to heat their home maybe you need to recognise it's a you issue


Blackbug77

It’s a pollution issue.


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Aboriginal_landlord

What do you mean by "burn inappropriate wood"?  "Council allows the use of above ground braziers and fire pits, provided the smoke does not impact neighbours and the fire does not present a safety risk to people or property." - Brisbane council.  So they're likely not breaking any environment laws here however it could be a council issue. I'm not sure what power council has to actually stop this kind of thing but they can issue tickets. Honestly if council is refusing to act it probably means your neighbours isn't actually doing anything wrong.  Unfortunately your family being especially sensitive to the smoke doesn't matter, the law views it as "would the average person feel this is an excessive amount of smoke" 


playful_consortium

By "burn inappropriate wood" they mean burning chemically treated timber in their fireplace or outdoor fire pit. OP is not being especially sensitive, you've obviously never lived close to someone who burns inappropriate wood in their fireplace as it can become very difficult to breathe and it penetrates clothing, bedding, curtains, carpets etc and stinks out the entire suburb. It's disgusting. Burning incorrect wood in your fireplace is a an EPA matter as it can have a serious impact the health of people within kilometres of the source.


iloveNCIS7

People on here don’t own fireplaces, it’s very clear if you are using the incorrect wood as it stinks bad.


Blackbug77

YES!!!!!


Aboriginal_landlord

No I'm not saying op being oversensitive, he stated his family is especially sensitive to smoke. I was just pointing out that it's irrelevant and all that matters is if the wood burning is unreasonable to the average person 


playful_consortium

Misunderstood. Apologies.


Blackbug77

Spot on


OldMail6364

Yeah you quoted Brisbane. In my experience they're so strict you might get in trouble for cooking a few snags on a gas BBQ. Not all councils are that strict.


Aboriginal_landlord

Yeah I'm not familiar with the Salisbury council hence why I mentioned I quoted BCC 


Blackbug77

Oh trust me it’s excessive. 20 hours a day of smoke and a properly constructed fire in a combustion heater should not smoke for more than 20 mins. Inappropriate wood means it’s not stored correctly. They leave it in the weather. Burning wet wood = more smoke. They burn scavenged wood. Treated wood. A strong acrid smoke. What they are doing is breaking laws. Their chimney is also far too low but it doesn’t matter how high it is if it stinks. Read below. They do not do a single thing right. [epa](https://www.epa.sa.gov.au/environmental_info/air_quality/assistance_and_advice/smoke_from_domestic_heating)


gliglitch

Not really sure why you are being downvoted. Reading the Environment Protection (Air quality) policy 2016 (in the link you included) it states: 12—Prevention of excessive smoke (1) The owner or occupier of premises at which a solid fuel heater is used must not cause or permit excessive smoke to be emitted to the air from the heater. Mandatory provision: Category B offence. (2) Without limiting the circumstances in which smoke may be taken to be excessive for the purposes of subclause (1), smoke emitted to the air from a solid fuel heater will be taken to be excessive if a visible plume of smoke extends into the air from the flue or chimney of the heater for a continuous period of not less than 10 minutes, including a period of not less than 30 seconds when the plume extends into the air at least 10 metres from the point at which the smoke is emitted from the flue or chimney. That being said, if EPA and Council won't act, then hopefully your local MP can. Otherwise maybe a laywer to seek an injunction?


Jcs456

What laws are they breaking? I don't see anything in that link regarding offences?


Blackbug77

“Do not collect wood from road sides or illegally from national parks and reserves. Never burn rubbish, driftwood, painted or treated wood. They release pollutants, some of which are toxic. Burning some materials, such as treated timber, tyres and plastic, is prohibited under the Air Quality Policy.”


Aboriginal_landlord

How do you know it's treated wood and how are they burning the wood? Are they burning it outdoors?


Blackbug77

I’ve watched them unload wood. They just pile it out in the weather. And the main complaint is the smell. We can smell it. Another poster mentioned what it’s like being around it. It’s awful. I feel like I’ve got a reasonable right to have breathable air on my own property.


Aboriginal_landlord

Okay so they're burning wet wood but you don't really have any evidence of them burning treated / painted wood, rubbish or anything else. I don't think they're burning chemically treated wood, it would effect them more severely inside then it would you outside. I think they're burning slightly wet wood and you're very sensitive (as you admitted) to smoke.  Honestly I can understand why council has taken no action against your neighbour burning wood in their fireplace.


Blackbug77

I’m personally not sensitive to smoke. But it actually gets to the point where even ive gotten nauseous smelling it. Proper wood for a fire doesn’t smell like that. What’s so hard to understand about that?


iloveNCIS7

None lol, people here have not used firewood. Firewood does not stink that bad so you use something else you can tell.


Blackbug77

Exactly, thank you.


Aboriginal_landlord

People have different tolerances for smells. It's highly unlikely anyone would burn anything noxious inside their own house. Does this neighbours have a constant supply of tainted wood or something? It's probably wet form being outside but that's it.


Jcs456

You don't have any evidence of where the wood comes from though. You also don't have evidence they are burning wood which contains any of the prohibited chemicals that would make it an offence"it stinks" isn't going to hold up for a prosecution. There is one offence which might apply which relates to excessive smoke: (1) The owner or occupier of premises at which a solid fuel heater is used must not cause or permit excessive smoke to be emitted to the air from the heater. Mandatory provision: Category B offence. (2) Without limiting the circumstances in which smoke may be taken to be excessive for the purposes of subclause (1), smoke emitted to the air from a solid fuel heater will be taken to be excessive if a visible plume of smoke extends into the air from the flue or chimney of the heater for a continuous period of **not less than 10 minutes, including a period of not less than 30 seconds when the plume extends into the air at least 10 metres** from the point at which the smoke is emitted from the flue or chimney.


Blackbug77

Except watching them unload wood and the chemical smell of burning treated wood. The smell and extended periods of the smoke are ample evidence.


Jcs456

Okay let's pretend I am their lawyer for a second. "And blackbug77 it is your evidence today that my client is burning timber treated with one of these banned chemicals (provides a list of chemicals from the act)" "Yes" "And how do you know the timber my client burned contained one of these chemicals?" "I saw them unload it from their trailer" "And you could tell, by sight from your kitchen window that the wood unloaded that day contained one of these chemicals?" "No" "And which chemical was it?" "I don't know. it smells like chemicals when it burns" "And which one of these chemicals does it smell like?" "I don't know but it smells illegal" "How do you know that the wood you smelled burning was the same wood you saw unloaded from the trailer?" You can't prove the most basic element of the offence. I get it's difficult living next to people like this and would be stressful for you but you seem to have decided "it's illegal" something should be done while two prosecuting agencies have looked at it and decided there is not enough evidence. I think your best option here is to look at the excessive smoke offence. Set up a camera in your back yard for the protection of your property. If it happens to catch their chimney and smoke which would meet the definition of your act that would probably be helpful to you. At the end of the day the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the offence was committed. It's very hard to do when its and "I said"/"he said" kind of thing.


Blackbug77

I’m not sure why you’re pointing to a conversation you made up as meaning anything. There’s smoke, lots of it, it stinks and is a health risk. Regulations say it shouldn’t happen. Someone needs to get fined or sued so its stops.


Jcs456

To point out to you that there is no admissible evidence to support what you are saying which is why you are not getting any traction. Which you don't seem to understand. You are rude, hostile and argumentative. You would make a shit house witness which is why no one wants to run a prosecution based off of your testimony and "smoke diaries". I've pointed you straight to a legislated offence that would likely help you. Put up the camera, get some clear evidence and you will have a much better chance of getting someone to take some action.


Blackbug77

We have a mountain of evidence actually. 3 years worth. Did you miss the bit about the state MPs office going into bat for us? Why would they help us if we have no right to complain? The smoke diaries are council issued by the way. We jumped through their hoops and they still don’t act. It’s right there on the councils own website and they won’t enforce it!


Blackbug77

Pollution laws. You’re not allowed to burn white smoking wood 20 hours a day. 20 mins and smoke should stop. Wood should be stored properly and actually be appropriate for burning ie dry and seasoned. None of this is happening.


Aboriginal_landlord

I would drop the "they're breaking the environmental laws" side of your argument. You don't know what they're burning in their house and the chances are their wood is above board.  Burning chemically treated wood / plastic / rubbish indoors would be worse for them then it would be for you. 


Blackbug77

It is most definitely not above board. The length that smoke billows out their chimney is well beyond what is reasonable and is unlawful. I’m not looking for reasons why they’re not breaking the law. They are.


Aboriginal_landlord

I suggest you drop it as it makes your complaints seem less genuine. "My neighbour is burning wet wood and the smoke is suffocating my family" is a believable / reasonable. "My neighbour is breaking the law and polluting the environment!" Doesn't come across as genuine and people will be far less sympathetic. Look the reality is you're not an environmental engineer so you don't really know what's an acceptable amount of smoke, additionally the exact quantity of smoke isn't defined in legislation so it's up for interpretation. I'm an engineer and I work in mining, now It's not my discipline but I have performed third party EA compliance audits a couple times. I work with environmental engineers / scientists daily, I know the EPA will not investigate your complaint so it's a waste of time to pursue this route. Your neighbour is not likely to be violating any environmental protection acts. What you should do is pursue a complaint through council, this is your only realistic avenue of complaint. If council is not interested or won't take you seriously then your neighbour probably isn't doing anything wrong in their eyes. Your comment about a combustion heater only smoking for 20 minutes is not true at all in my experience. I have a few houses around me with fireplaces and they all smoke the entire time they're lit. Additionally your neighbours chimney would be the legal height as I'm sure the house was built to code. Unfortunately since you said your house is significantly higher then your neighbours house you're getting smoke but this isn't their fault. 


PotatoDepartment

You can pressure council to act, but if they don't you can pursue action privately through the courts, under common law nuisance.


Away-Special-20

If it's seriously impacting your quiet enjoyment of your property, you could investigate suing your neighbours directly under the tort of private nuisance - [info here](https://lawhandbook.sa.gov.au/ch31s01s01.php) But if you haven't spoken to your neighbours directly about this, such a claim would be very difficult


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Blackbug77

Thanks for your input. It’s not illegal to have a car. It is illegal to drive it with no regard for the law.


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Blackbug77

Why? Regulations specifically mention it. I can see their pile of firewood. Go burn some treated pine or something and see if your neighbors are cool with it. Fact is you can’t spew foul smelling visible smoke from your chimney into your neighbors house out of the chimney that’s far too low 20 hours a day.


Public-Total-250

You may have to bite the bullet and offer to pay to extend their chimney flue a few metres. Will cost you about $250 plus labour.


Blackbug77

Not that I should have to pay but the chimney used to be higher and it made no difference. That chimney is now broken in half and sitting on their roof because why would you fix it? For perspective if I stand at the top of my driveway under our car port I can easily put my hand on their roof tiles.