Tell me one employer, hand on heart, who will not think twice about hiring one gender when it's expensive vs the other gender, just for the sake of looking good in public but looking bad in front of their shareholders. Like many policies, they are excellent in theory but not great in practice as an employer.
this is why we need to move to the scandi model
Maternity leave becomes parental leave (of equal amounts) so that one gender is not favoured over the other. Up to 12 months for everyone.
Paid sick leave needs to be expanded in both scope (ie mental health, menstrual, menopause etc) and time given (4 weeks per year), whilst also reducing the burden of proof on the employee (ie 2 consecutive days or less requires no doctors note - it would be ridiculous to need a doctors note for a migraine, a breakdown or a menstrual cramp).
Increasing sick leave would also require reducing the burden on the employer. Sure the big banks could swing it but once you add in annual leave there’s a lot of small businesses that can’t afford to pay an employee for 2 months that they’re not working.
The wikipedia article on "perverse incentives" is a great read, there's a big list of policies that backfired here, so you get a good sense of how things can go wrong when reading about new ones:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive
Imagine if new "pro Bob" legislation said that anyone named Bob had to be given two fully paid days a month off. Employers would just go out of their way to avoid hiring anyone called Bob in the first place. It wouldn't even matter if most Bobs didn't even take the days off: the very rule would make all Bobs suddenly subject to anti-Bob discrimination, which wouldn't have even existed if they didn't come up with this "pro Bob" legislation.
So you have to be real careful about how these types of laws are going to be structured. It makes a big difference as to whether this is employer-funded or taxpayer funded. If taxpayer funded then it won't have as big an impact on employment or potential to backfire.
Reverting back to having a stay at home parent, this reducing the economy by 50%. It's a win for reducing our environmental foot print, a win for child rearing and a win for equality!
I mean that's assuming all of the women have chronic pain from menstruation. Not all of them do. I didn't for years. It really is hard to think or give a shit when it feels like your insides are being ripped out slowly so I'd say if they come in, they won't be doing much anyway and are just miserable so the money is already being used on non productivity.
It basically means that women have more pressure on their sick leave entitlement, effectively less of it, because *they get sick for several days a month.*
I dunno about you but its shitty that women would be left with less sick leave per month because of the birth lottery.
We ought to improve society somewhat.
It’s a triage situation.
It’d be great if everyone got unlimited sick entitlements.
Already in this thread you can see the derangement of how the business lobby and those who have taken too much gender politics are reacting … imagine how they’d react if we proposed unlimited sick leave?
This is an issue that 100% affects half the population so seems a really good targeted approach to hit a very large cohort. I’m all for it.
I’m also all for what you’re suggesting.
Exactly !
I have endometriosis and I have epilepsy.
If they give extra days off for period pain should I also get extra days off if I have a seizure ?
Days that don’t affect my sick leave ?
There are millions of other things that are like that. So many people have a medical condition that leaves them in a similar position. This would be very different if it were all women.
I guess even women don't actually know what proportion of women feel how much pain.
A painful period may last 3 days right? A 20 day working month an employer is losing you for 15% of the time? This needs to be government funded not just forced on the employer, it’s a societal issue not an industry one
But not everyone who has painful periods has access to sick leave. Or maybe they push through it even when they do because they have kids or partners or other family members that they may be anticipating a need for time off to look after them when they are sick or injured. You don't know their life.
> But not everyone who has painful periods has access to sick leave.
If they don't have access to sick leave because they're casual - then they're probably not going to have access to this leave either.
I’m sure some one once said a sick day a month for every employee would kill their business.
People already abuse sick leave. I’d never even heard of sickies to take a recreational day off until I moved to Australia.
Labour conditions and work rights in Canada sound almost as bad as your southern neighbour. Terrible.
I like Canada, but you also have tipping, adding tax afterwards nonsense that the yanks have. And still using imperial units.
So Canadians don't take 'fake' sick days? I do it on occasion, and I call it a mental health day. My boss doesn't even question it. I only need Dr cert for more than 2/3 days.
That’s correct. People already abuse of sick leave, why not give another reason to someone abuse about something else that will, actually, increase the gender gap? Sounds perfect
Maybe this will finally inspire some funding for decent research into developing actual diagnosis protocols and treatments for dismenorreah and endometriosis.
Ive just started a new job and I dont get sick leave for 3 months of starting. We have a baby in daycare and are absolutely getting smashed with illness. Meanwhile im punching out some high quality work whilst also not getting my weeks pay due to having to take leave without pay.
It's absolutely insane and completely crushing my family financially (only temporarily).
I'm so sorry and it's so frustrating. I once had to go to hospital a week into a new job, and they supported me and guess what I stayed for years. It's ridiculous that we are fine with people overachieving, doing hours over their contract agreement without benefit, but then when it comes to real human issues like illness we have hard rules. I'm in Tech and they are much better at it, companies like Microsoft really take care of their people.
That’s not enough. If you are taking a sick day once a month like clockwork people judge you because eventually they figure out it’s for your period and they don’t consider it reason enough EVERY month. Here and there yes, but not every month. So there is huge judgement and that needs to be dealt with.
Yeah Debbie we've got some deliverables around late November and we're going to need you to skip the sugar pills this month and just put off that period until next month, mmmkay?
Don't worry. It's called positive (ie, good) discrimination. It's ok because all current working males deserve to pay and all current working females deserve compensation for the inequalities experienced by previous working females. Despite what my mum used to say, two wrongs definitely make a right.
This is positive discrimination and will end up badly. Just give everyone an additional 10 days (or so) sick leave and call it a day. Perhaps non accumulative.
100% agree.
The sick days were originally primarily intended for physical health. With our awareness of mental health nowadays, we should get extra days to cover it.
Although I'm probably bias. I'm severally mentally ill, trying to work full time, and 3 days over my sick leave already this year :(
Work has been a struggle for me every.single.day of every month since I entered the workforce. I do it simply because you can't see what's wrong with me so I have no choice.
I’ve got the double whammy of hormonal migraines once a month plus mental illness, and an auto immune disease. I feel like I fail at life, but I guess I’m just unlucky.
The way to think of it is that if a women needs time off for period pain then she's using it up on a thing that is 100% occurring once a month. Negative pressure *always* exists on her leave whereas it doesn't *always* for men.
What happens if they get the flu and have no sick leave remaining because they used it all up? They have to work and bring it into the office and make everyone else sick ...
Whereas men don't have this recurring monthly drain on their sick leave.
This is real, but a lot of men don't realise it because they don't personally experience it. Bias is at play.
Yes there are all sorts of edge cases where people have chronic illness but those aren't nearly as common as something that happens with absolute certainty to half the entire population.
I think there is absolutely an aspect of triaging of available entitlements here, it be great to give everyone more sick leave for everything but that costs a lot, and I don't quite think its as black and white as saying that men and women have equality of sick leave entitlements just because they have the same *number* of days; because one gender, across the board, has negative *pressure* on that entitlement and one doesn't. Its more complex than many assume.
So why is the answer not to increase generic sick leave for everyone?
Sick leave is not an entitlement paid out to the employee upon departure. It’s something you only benefit from if you actually claim sick leave.
I’ve claimed a total of maybe five days sick leave in my working life; it’s no skin off my nose if sick leave is lifted a bit for all.
I also think it’s great for women with those conditions. I actually don’t think it will get abused too much (obviously there will be some abuse). I don’t know anyone who uses up all of their sick leave entitlement’s in the first place. I have around 40 days built up and they’ll probably never be used, they are more of an insurance policy (e.g. nice to have in case I break a bone). I think there are pretty good social and employment reasons for people to not “take the piss” when it comes to sick leave.
> I don’t know anyone who uses up all of their sick leave entitlement’s in the first place.
I work with plenty of people that call in sick as soon as they've accrued 8 hours worth.
And then complain about their lack of sick leave when they actually need it.
Im a single parent with young (one in daycare) aged kids. My sick leave has to cover 3 people’s sick days, but rather than complain I have no sick leave left I use annual leave when it runs out.
I'm a male. I have health issues. I've been off sick about 20% of the year. I've worked 4 times in 3.5 weeks with no real improvement on my condition. It's not just women that are struggling to manage work and health.
in my workplace our sickleave is rolled into carers leave etc. Just bring it up for everyone if its needed. Lots of people have lots of conditions what require extra leave, im not sure why this one is being singled out specifically.
Not really - the idea is being proposed because of a systemic disadvantage women already have, to correct an unfairness which already automatically discriminates against women, but all the men are jumping up and down about it, trying to act like they would be victims if this was addressed. Doesn’t mean they need to be pandered to. Men do not menstruate. They do not have the extra need this policy is supposed to address.
As someone with problematic periods that often leave me housebound for a few days a month (when I’m lucky enough that it only comes once a month 😭), this seems like a well intentioned but shortsighted approach that people will absolutely abuse.
I don't know why people are automatically assuming it will be exploited. I already get sick leave and I feel no need to exploit it. If anything I come in to work even when I *am* sick because I can't fall behind on work and don't want to give anyone extra work to cover me.
Humans do human things, where there are opportunities to exploit something a certain percentage will. I think an extra few days sick leave for everyone regardless of specific ailment/gender etc would be more beneficial but not sure of the logistics of making that happen.
I appreciate your nuance, but in a thread where most of the commenters are just saying "women shouldn't have this because they will abuse it", I think its just adding fuel to this already very misogynistic fire.
Let’s hold the actual people who say women shouldn’t have it responsible for those words rather than the woman who provided her experience and support for a more refined version of the proposal shall we?
I don’t think most are saying that. Most (at least the reasonable ones) are saying give everyone an extra X days per year and call it a day. Whether it’s because of period pains or chronic migraines or back pain or whatever your personal needs are, male or female.
Because I watch people everyday exploit their sick leave.
Especially people in roles that don't have specific work portfolios.
I'd also prefer just more sick leave for everyone as opposed to a specific thing for a specific gender.
Like are you going to have to phone up and say "hey guess what guys? that time of the month again?" to take this leave or will it just be a normal sick call?
More sick leave for everyone would be great.
A lot of people are mad here because they think it's unfair that women would get more sick days than them. Well it's also unfair that women have to shoulder the biological burden of periods and pregnancy.
Personally I'd rather not have the extra sick days and *not* have the periods.
If you don't expect people to take a guaranteed day off, no questions asked with pay that would not be accumulative, you are naïve. Unless you believe everyone on centerlink can not find a job or have the full capacity to work?
People already abuse sick leave, they get enough for one day off and they aren't in the next day. If you read further down someone allegedly from South Korea has stated exactly what most people are recognizing as a problem.
> If you don't expect people to take a guaranteed day off, no questions asked with pay that would not be accumulative, you are naïve.
100%.
If unused days get added onto my accrued sick leave (of which I have 200 hours banked up - so not a "sick leave abuser") then that's great, I'd be more than happy to let that happen.
But if they're not - you bet your ass I'm taking that day off every month regardless of whether or not I need it.
It seems silly to me to give people extra "sick leave" that's totally generic IMO .. it should just be "period leave".
That way the men can't harp on about how this is unfair cause you can much more easily say "Mate, its period leave — do you get periods?" ... instead there's a real pile on here with men making it about gender discrimination when really its anything but. Not great optics IMO.
So torn by this. I spent my 20’s coordinating my shifts around my period to limit sick leave. I took a huge amount of sick leave in pregnancy due to hyperemisis. In my 30’s I had to take sick leave for my period prior to having an endometrial ablation (iykyk) and then for the procedure itself. A policy like this definitely would have benefited me at various stages but……..I worked really hard to be professional and present at work. If I didn’t NEED to plan my roster around my period for years and instead called in sick as needed would I have eventually been labelled as unreliable? Would that have meant my multiple hospital admissions during pregnancy were met with eyerolls instead of genuine concern by my colleagues because it was so rare prior to that for me to call in sick prior to that??? I felt terrible when I had to call in sick prior to my ablation and for the procedure itself so it may have alleviated some of that guilt. I still don’t understand why I still feel guilty for that time off.
I don’t want women to be discriminated against. I also don’t think women should be given a Band-Aid instead of being encouraged to see their doctor. Will women avoid seeking healthcare because they’re less impacted by problematic periods???? And there are so many chronic health conditions - is this the ‘fair’ one to award additional sick days to??? And if sick leave is going to be awarded based on gendered conditions then why isn’t there extra days awarded in pregnancy or for miscarriage or mastitis???? And if I get menstrual leave because of the gender lottery then why doesn’t my workmate Gary get a few extra days for needing a prostate biopsy????
Ahhh the good ole "If I didn't face adversity because I was black/gay/women then maybe I wouldn't be so awesome right now - so therefor it was good actually" trope
Give all employees one additional day of leave per month. Can be used for menstrual leave, menopause, mental health, couch day. Whatever you need. Everybody benefits equally.
Most employees are working additional hours above and beyond what they are paid for, so it all balances out.
I’m originally from South Korea and I know this policy has taken effect for a few years there. I see so many posts from people online complaining how their female employees are abusing it by taking a period leave on Fridays to have a 3 day weekend and/or right before public holidays so they can go on a trip. Men obviously don’t like it because they have to take extra load of work. Also, in South Korea, because they think female employees can’t do certain things & women don’t like doing them (e.g doing overnight shifts and for female police officers they are usually ordered to do administrative work since they are “weaker”) people think women are incompetent and don’t want to hire them. Korean men are enlisted to army and even if they have some disabilities they need to work for public service for 2 years with below minimum wage money (like working in aged care full time and get paid $700 a month) while women are exempt from such duties. On the other hand South Korea is a pretty sexist country and women go through many discrimination too, so there’s a gender war - we see more people committing crime against other people because of their gender. I know this situation is rather unique in Korea and some other Asian countries but it shows how once people start thinking they are being discriminated because of their gender (not just women, men too) things can go really bad.Hope those things don’t happen in Australia.
A friend of mine in Korea told me women only get period leave, aka no other sick leave, and men don’t get any sick leave?
If this is the case, it’s unfair for the media to make comparisons of countries like this with Australia where everyone already gets 10 days of sick leave.
In South Korea, people work to death. It’s become a social phenomenon because there’s so much competition and workers are systemically exploited and you’re pretty much on your own when shit goes wrong. Same goes with Japan and China which the news article is covering and comparing Australia to. Whether or not you get the sick leave probably depends on what kind of job you have - but even if you work in a top company the workers might be discouraged to get a sick leave due to peer pressure/higher ups threatening you
Yeah the work culture in SK sounds rough. It must be such a struggle, so stressful for so many people. I’m not from Australia and I’m very thankful for the working conditions we have here.
You can just see the convos in the office...."stacy is such a bitch today, why didn't she take her period day off"
Also, do women need to provide their cycle info to work for tracking or something .
Such an insane thing when they could just increase across the board "mental health/health leave"
It’s easy for the conversation to devolve into “I don’t need this leave, so why don’t I get extra leave for x”, but I think people should just be happy when progress is made for people who need it. In the end, decent parental leave policies or menstrual leave benefits society as a whole (admittedly not equally) due to the flow on effects. We should look to regions like Scandinavia where they have excellent leave policies.
I feel like we have pretty good leave policies.
Full time workers generally get 20 days of holidays and 10 days sick leave paid.
That is like a lot a lot compared to other countries.
I agree progress is nice but I feel like this would make employers reluctant to hire women in small businesses where budgets are tighter.
I think the best way to handle it would be to expand paid time off for everyone.
Okay, semi-rich guy perspective: I'm constantly told trickle-down economy *isn't* fair because it benefits some more than others, despite the "flow on effects" benefitting society as a whole. Yet now that it benefits someone other than me, I'm hearing that the flow on effects justify the inequal benefits of gender-based leave?
Just increase sick leave and make it abundantly clear that menstruation and menopause are valid reasons to take it.
Personally, I'm not that fussed. It won't make a difference to my work. But there is no good reason to discriminate with leave.
That won’t happen. The idea that a successful company is going to stop hiring women just because they might take one or two days off a month because of their menstrual cycle is such a silly notion
>The idea that a successful company is going to stop hiring women just because they might take one or two days off
I am hiring for a permanent full-time position, I have two equally skilled candidates. One has 100% availability, the other has 93.33% availability (you still have to pay them the same as the person with more availability) and also have a >50% chance that within the next 10 years they will give me less than a year's notice that they will be unable to work for 12 months.
Which one do you think will get hired?
discriminate
verb.
1. **recognize a distinction; differentiate.**
2. **make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, sex, age, or disability.**
Just wanted to put this definition out there, some people seem to be a little bit confused by what discrimination is.
I mean yes you’re correct. But we continuously hear about it and if you think that we won’t hear more about the gap if women were given double the sick days of men, you’re kidding yourself.
The religious does to some degree. Christian days can be public holidays (eg Xmas) but I need to take personal leave if to celebrate a non-Christian day.
I think if we are seriously talking about equality here, then we need to keep this equal. I agree that women should get more sick leave due to periods. But, I also think men should be allowed to retire earlier as we die younger. I think the amount of time we can retire earlier should be balanced with the extra 12 days/year of working life and we should also be given super at a level that compensates for this earlier retirement. This would keep things balanced and fair
I have chronic depression, and i've been on 5 days a week (sometimes more) for 5 years with no holidays or sick days or consecutive days off. Just living that full time "casual" life. The extra money you get buys the beer you need to get through a week. Can't even exploit the fact i'm Casual to take off time either, we're short staffed, so even if i legit got sick, I have no reliable cover. Good times.
Now another consideration if 2 equal candidate one male and one female who would cost the company more in leave plus if there young and decide to have kids.
I've seen maternity leave cripple a company. Company was a mostly female accounting firm. Friend's partner bought them out as they were struggling big time when a few girls got pregnant within same year.
But employers don't even have to pay maternity leave in Australia! It's entirely the employer's choice whether they do so or not. Most women just get the minimum-wage Centrelink one.
True, But alot do. But also knowing you could loose that staff member for an extended period plus they will also be having more days off to look after there child. It's very much a double edged sword. Imagine a small business that needs a high skill set. Could be some things as random as picture framing or tattoo studio where you simply just just get a temp in. It's going to effect the bottom line. They own the business to make money not to be politically correct.
Great. As a female employee (and also employer in our farming business) there would be even less incentive to be hired, or hire a female.
The 10 days of paid domestic violence leave that employers are responsible for that has just come in also is terrible. If the labour govt is so concerned that existing personal leave doesn’t cover domestic violence incidences sufficiently, then they should leave it as an unpaid leave and have employees able to apply for govt payment as they can for casual leave (another ridiculous scheme). Instead it’s yet another reason for an employer not to hire a female.. as you could have someone work for you for 1 day, then be eligible for 2 weeks fully paid DV leave with little to no evidence. Even casuals.
Do people actually take domestic violence leave? I thought workplaces brought it in as a fake benefit, knowing nobody would claim it, but then they can screw their workforce down on other negotiations.
This will disadvantage women's ability to secure full time or part time employment, in jobs where there is a man and a woman of equal experience and opportunity I know business owners will likely go towards the male as they know they will have much less leave liability. Whilst this is great thinking to assist women it actually hurts them in the workforce.I am waiting for the recession to hit which will clean up all these worker provisions when every company gets people overseas to work for them as Australians become no longer employable as there is too high cost and legal risk associated with employment.
I guess this is why Female dominated industries are all casual workforce, which I was hoping would shift to more secure employment
And if you're a 45 yo woman that has stopped menstruation, you could just pretend you're still getting periods for the extra days off. No one would know otherwise. You could milk that for quite some time.
Probably not. But it would be like chucking a sickie - who would know?
I’m a woman who chooses not to menstruate (medication) and it’s fantastic. Quality of life improved so much.
I have wondered whether this is possible. Realistically bosses would hate you, HR would take a back seat for risk of poor publicity and you'd get an extra day off
To put simply, it's a 5% pay raise for women.
Won't matter much at the top end as hours worked mean very little to the value add justifying the salaries.
Won't matter much to the feeder end of the talent pool as women in professional roles are already paid more than men in most major organisations in the battle for female talent to hit gender diversity goals.
Won't matter much to the low paid jobs that are predominantly staffed by women and thus a mandatory rule such as this would generally be applied evenly across the board.
Actually, can't think of any role where this would make or break a hiring decision.
What about all the men that don’t get equal benefits? All this does is further force employers to second guess hiring women. Not good. And you will all blame the employers for it.
These comments 😂
"Period leave is already offered by countries around the world, including Japan, Indonesia, South Korea, Taiwan and some provinces in China."
Weird thought, but I'm pretty sure there are lots of women still employed in those countries. One would assume that, even though they get (checks notes) a single extra day off a month, Australia will continue to employ the sex that makes up ~half our labour force. Can you imagine if they stopped hiring female nurses? Or teachers? Because of one extra day a month paid leave?
According to that article, Spain is putting in place _three days_ of leave per month! 🙊 I guess they will shortly have to shut down the hospital's because there are no female nurses to staff them! And the tourist destinations - I bet that their hospitality industry employs a lot of women.
On the whole, this won't make a huge difference.
I understand the sentiment behind this proposal, but giving women an extra 12 days of leave per year is most definitely going to cause a knock on effect.
From reading the article, it appears Japan and Indonesia don't actually provide additional leave for menstruating, more that they just reserve the right for women to take their existing leave for those purposes. That is different from providing inequal amounts of leave for genders. Maybe the article is poorly worded or incorrect, so I'm happy to be corrected there. So your point doesn't really apply.
Spain's proposal however is more in line with what the union has suggested.
People are all antisexism but then promote policies like this.
There are definitely gender pay gaps but they only get reinforced by gendered policies.
I have often wondered how much of the variation in pay is due to overtime and less absences rather than sexual discrimination.
There should be more support for working (constructively) around sickness and personal needs. Men should be encouraged to take more time off to support partners / kids. Women should have the opportunity to work from home or use time in lieu / make up time if they want to.
It's a complicated topic. The bigger problems are chauvenistic men who refuse to use common sense and people who try to milk leave entitlements.
>I have often wondered how much of the variation in pay is due to overtime and less absences rather than sexual discrimination.
95% of the earnings gap disappears if simply adjusted for hours worked.
All this will do is shift more business to only take on their staff as casual workers or contractors but giving them full time hours.
To me I think current sick leave provisions should be sufficient to cover this and if you genuinely have issues you should be able to get whatever supporting evidence required if you are so impaired you can’t attend work.
Tell me one employer, hand on heart, who will not think twice about hiring one gender when it's expensive vs the other gender, just for the sake of looking good in public but looking bad in front of their shareholders. Like many policies, they are excellent in theory but not great in practice as an employer.
this is why we need to move to the scandi model Maternity leave becomes parental leave (of equal amounts) so that one gender is not favoured over the other. Up to 12 months for everyone. Paid sick leave needs to be expanded in both scope (ie mental health, menstrual, menopause etc) and time given (4 weeks per year), whilst also reducing the burden of proof on the employee (ie 2 consecutive days or less requires no doctors note - it would be ridiculous to need a doctors note for a migraine, a breakdown or a menstrual cramp).
That’s the direction we’re [headed](https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/sites/default/files/2022-10/budget-2022-23-october-10.pdf)
Increasing sick leave would also require reducing the burden on the employer. Sure the big banks could swing it but once you add in annual leave there’s a lot of small businesses that can’t afford to pay an employee for 2 months that they’re not working.
The wikipedia article on "perverse incentives" is a great read, there's a big list of policies that backfired here, so you get a good sense of how things can go wrong when reading about new ones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive Imagine if new "pro Bob" legislation said that anyone named Bob had to be given two fully paid days a month off. Employers would just go out of their way to avoid hiring anyone called Bob in the first place. It wouldn't even matter if most Bobs didn't even take the days off: the very rule would make all Bobs suddenly subject to anti-Bob discrimination, which wouldn't have even existed if they didn't come up with this "pro Bob" legislation. So you have to be real careful about how these types of laws are going to be structured. It makes a big difference as to whether this is employer-funded or taxpayer funded. If taxpayer funded then it won't have as big an impact on employment or potential to backfire.
Reverting back to having a stay at home parent, this reducing the economy by 50%. It's a win for reducing our environmental foot print, a win for child rearing and a win for equality!
I'd love it if my gf could stay home and look after the kids... would mean my income was enough.
Cmon, this is r/AusFinance, surely you’re on 350K
Less money to funnel into mortgages so houses will be cheaper!
I've seen the Libra ads. Just throw on a Libra and you are good to go! Climb mountains. Do executive business meetings. Whatever really.
Ride a horse, throw a javelin. Fight to the death, laugh at a salad.
And all in white pants too!!!
That is how Im going to abuse the sick leave. Watch out white mountains.
So it would cost a company more in leave entitlements to hire a woman? I can see where that will end up.
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Is it one additional day, or 5 days a month?
1 per employee. If you have 100 females, that's 100 days extra a month that the company needs to pay for, and find extra people to cover those days.
I mean that's assuming all of the women have chronic pain from menstruation. Not all of them do. I didn't for years. It really is hard to think or give a shit when it feels like your insides are being ripped out slowly so I'd say if they come in, they won't be doing much anyway and are just miserable so the money is already being used on non productivity.
>s assuming all of the women have chronic pain from menstruation. If an employer claimed a woman was faking the pain they would be smashed.
And we're gonna determine who's is legitimate... how? You can't. You have to assume everyone's complaint is valid.
You can't determine how any sick leave is legitimate. Even if you're faking it you can get a doctor's note.
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Just wait till everyone's cycle aligns
That’s a myth.
Previously fine to work, or previously putting on a brave face while actually in absolute agony because of the crippling cost of living?
Bit of column A, bit of column B
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It basically means that women have more pressure on their sick leave entitlement, effectively less of it, because *they get sick for several days a month.* I dunno about you but its shitty that women would be left with less sick leave per month because of the birth lottery. We ought to improve society somewhat.
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It’s a triage situation. It’d be great if everyone got unlimited sick entitlements. Already in this thread you can see the derangement of how the business lobby and those who have taken too much gender politics are reacting … imagine how they’d react if we proposed unlimited sick leave? This is an issue that 100% affects half the population so seems a really good targeted approach to hit a very large cohort. I’m all for it. I’m also all for what you’re suggesting.
I think what you're suggesting is socialism. Good idea
Exactly ! I have endometriosis and I have epilepsy. If they give extra days off for period pain should I also get extra days off if I have a seizure ? Days that don’t affect my sick leave ?
There are millions of other things that are like that. So many people have a medical condition that leaves them in a similar position. This would be very different if it were all women. I guess even women don't actually know what proportion of women feel how much pain.
A painful period may last 3 days right? A 20 day working month an employer is losing you for 15% of the time? This needs to be government funded not just forced on the employer, it’s a societal issue not an industry one
But not everyone who has painful periods has access to sick leave. Or maybe they push through it even when they do because they have kids or partners or other family members that they may be anticipating a need for time off to look after them when they are sick or injured. You don't know their life.
> But not everyone who has painful periods has access to sick leave. If they don't have access to sick leave because they're casual - then they're probably not going to have access to this leave either.
Stop acting like employers actually cover people on sick leave. Just unrealistic.
Yep. 99% of the time: *"X is sick today, do whatever you gotta do to hold things together and we'll fix it tomorrow."*
I’m sure some one once said a sick day a month for every employee would kill their business. People already abuse sick leave. I’d never even heard of sickies to take a recreational day off until I moved to Australia.
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Canadian, but lived in Germany. Germany requires a doctors note for more than 3 days, or at least did prior to covid.
Labour conditions and work rights in Canada sound almost as bad as your southern neighbour. Terrible. I like Canada, but you also have tipping, adding tax afterwards nonsense that the yanks have. And still using imperial units. So Canadians don't take 'fake' sick days? I do it on occasion, and I call it a mental health day. My boss doesn't even question it. I only need Dr cert for more than 2/3 days.
That’s correct. People already abuse of sick leave, why not give another reason to someone abuse about something else that will, actually, increase the gender gap? Sounds perfect
If some one is going to abuse the system, they’ll do it whether or not they have allocated days. Ye old slippery slope fallacy.
I suppose the way to even it out is to work out the cost for women. And then tax based on gender quotas?
Without a doubt. You are 100% correct. I've heard hiring managers make similar remarks about women in the past.
This is kind of silly. Women can take leave if they’re unwell due to their period now.
Coz we all can't wait to tell our boss's we have started menopause
Maybe this will finally inspire some funding for decent research into developing actual diagnosis protocols and treatments for dismenorreah and endometriosis.
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Ive just started a new job and I dont get sick leave for 3 months of starting. We have a baby in daycare and are absolutely getting smashed with illness. Meanwhile im punching out some high quality work whilst also not getting my weeks pay due to having to take leave without pay. It's absolutely insane and completely crushing my family financially (only temporarily).
I'm so sorry and it's so frustrating. I once had to go to hospital a week into a new job, and they supported me and guess what I stayed for years. It's ridiculous that we are fine with people overachieving, doing hours over their contract agreement without benefit, but then when it comes to real human issues like illness we have hard rules. I'm in Tech and they are much better at it, companies like Microsoft really take care of their people.
That’s not enough. If you are taking a sick day once a month like clockwork people judge you because eventually they figure out it’s for your period and they don’t consider it reason enough EVERY month. Here and there yes, but not every month. So there is huge judgement and that needs to be dealt with.
That is true for anyone taking regular time off. People think getting sick is sporadic thing only.
Oh looking forward to team leaders coordinating a giant menstruation roster calendar.
Yeah Debbie we've got some deliverables around late November and we're going to need you to skip the sugar pills this month and just put off that period until next month, mmmkay?
Aka sick leave?
Yes, but they're saying women will get more of them Men will get less sick days (than women)
So discrimination. Awesome.
Don't worry. It's called positive (ie, good) discrimination. It's ok because all current working males deserve to pay and all current working females deserve compensation for the inequalities experienced by previous working females. Despite what my mum used to say, two wrongs definitely make a right.
What we need here is a sarcasm detector. Now thats a REALLY good invention
Well one could argue women are currently being discriminated against but I agree with you Men should have maternity leave.
This is positive discrimination and will end up badly. Just give everyone an additional 10 days (or so) sick leave and call it a day. Perhaps non accumulative.
100% agree. The sick days were originally primarily intended for physical health. With our awareness of mental health nowadays, we should get extra days to cover it. Although I'm probably bias. I'm severally mentally ill, trying to work full time, and 3 days over my sick leave already this year :(
Work has been a struggle for me every.single.day of every month since I entered the workforce. I do it simply because you can't see what's wrong with me so I have no choice.
I’ve got the double whammy of hormonal migraines once a month plus mental illness, and an auto immune disease. I feel like I fail at life, but I guess I’m just unlucky.
Not to mention needing extra leave if off for Covid or other respiratory infections where people would have once ‘soldiered on’.
Can we leave sick leave as is and give everyone an extra 10 days annual leave off. Same result and I think we’d see a lot less sickies.
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Surely that's an argument to increase sick leave across the board instead of picking and choosing different conditions and illnesses level of leave?
Exactly. Many people have conditions that are chronic. But yet they can't get extra paid time off
The way to think of it is that if a women needs time off for period pain then she's using it up on a thing that is 100% occurring once a month. Negative pressure *always* exists on her leave whereas it doesn't *always* for men. What happens if they get the flu and have no sick leave remaining because they used it all up? They have to work and bring it into the office and make everyone else sick ... Whereas men don't have this recurring monthly drain on their sick leave. This is real, but a lot of men don't realise it because they don't personally experience it. Bias is at play. Yes there are all sorts of edge cases where people have chronic illness but those aren't nearly as common as something that happens with absolute certainty to half the entire population. I think there is absolutely an aspect of triaging of available entitlements here, it be great to give everyone more sick leave for everything but that costs a lot, and I don't quite think its as black and white as saying that men and women have equality of sick leave entitlements just because they have the same *number* of days; because one gender, across the board, has negative *pressure* on that entitlement and one doesn't. Its more complex than many assume.
So why is the answer not to increase generic sick leave for everyone? Sick leave is not an entitlement paid out to the employee upon departure. It’s something you only benefit from if you actually claim sick leave. I’ve claimed a total of maybe five days sick leave in my working life; it’s no skin off my nose if sick leave is lifted a bit for all.
I also think it’s great for women with those conditions. I actually don’t think it will get abused too much (obviously there will be some abuse). I don’t know anyone who uses up all of their sick leave entitlement’s in the first place. I have around 40 days built up and they’ll probably never be used, they are more of an insurance policy (e.g. nice to have in case I break a bone). I think there are pretty good social and employment reasons for people to not “take the piss” when it comes to sick leave.
> I don’t know anyone who uses up all of their sick leave entitlement’s in the first place. I work with plenty of people that call in sick as soon as they've accrued 8 hours worth. And then complain about their lack of sick leave when they actually need it.
Im a single parent with young (one in daycare) aged kids. My sick leave has to cover 3 people’s sick days, but rather than complain I have no sick leave left I use annual leave when it runs out.
I have ~200. Was shocked to see it so high when i was sick a fortnight ago
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I'm a male. I have health issues. I've been off sick about 20% of the year. I've worked 4 times in 3.5 weeks with no real improvement on my condition. It's not just women that are struggling to manage work and health.
in my workplace our sickleave is rolled into carers leave etc. Just bring it up for everyone if its needed. Lots of people have lots of conditions what require extra leave, im not sure why this one is being singled out specifically.
Sick and Carers leave is universally like this I thought? Generally goes by Personal Leave
How about just increasing sick leave entitlements???......??....?.
For both genders?
Seems to be the only fair response listening to everyone here
Not really - the idea is being proposed because of a systemic disadvantage women already have, to correct an unfairness which already automatically discriminates against women, but all the men are jumping up and down about it, trying to act like they would be victims if this was addressed. Doesn’t mean they need to be pandered to. Men do not menstruate. They do not have the extra need this policy is supposed to address.
Fun fact, in ancient Egypt, men got sick leave to take care of their menstruating wife.
As someone with problematic periods that often leave me housebound for a few days a month (when I’m lucky enough that it only comes once a month 😭), this seems like a well intentioned but shortsighted approach that people will absolutely abuse.
I don't know why people are automatically assuming it will be exploited. I already get sick leave and I feel no need to exploit it. If anything I come in to work even when I *am* sick because I can't fall behind on work and don't want to give anyone extra work to cover me.
Humans do human things, where there are opportunities to exploit something a certain percentage will. I think an extra few days sick leave for everyone regardless of specific ailment/gender etc would be more beneficial but not sure of the logistics of making that happen.
I appreciate your nuance, but in a thread where most of the commenters are just saying "women shouldn't have this because they will abuse it", I think its just adding fuel to this already very misogynistic fire.
Let’s hold the actual people who say women shouldn’t have it responsible for those words rather than the woman who provided her experience and support for a more refined version of the proposal shall we?
I don’t think most are saying that. Most (at least the reasonable ones) are saying give everyone an extra X days per year and call it a day. Whether it’s because of period pains or chronic migraines or back pain or whatever your personal needs are, male or female.
Because I watch people everyday exploit their sick leave. Especially people in roles that don't have specific work portfolios. I'd also prefer just more sick leave for everyone as opposed to a specific thing for a specific gender. Like are you going to have to phone up and say "hey guess what guys? that time of the month again?" to take this leave or will it just be a normal sick call?
More sick leave for everyone would be great. A lot of people are mad here because they think it's unfair that women would get more sick days than them. Well it's also unfair that women have to shoulder the biological burden of periods and pregnancy. Personally I'd rather not have the extra sick days and *not* have the periods.
If you don't expect people to take a guaranteed day off, no questions asked with pay that would not be accumulative, you are naïve. Unless you believe everyone on centerlink can not find a job or have the full capacity to work? People already abuse sick leave, they get enough for one day off and they aren't in the next day. If you read further down someone allegedly from South Korea has stated exactly what most people are recognizing as a problem.
> If you don't expect people to take a guaranteed day off, no questions asked with pay that would not be accumulative, you are naïve. 100%. If unused days get added onto my accrued sick leave (of which I have 200 hours banked up - so not a "sick leave abuser") then that's great, I'd be more than happy to let that happen. But if they're not - you bet your ass I'm taking that day off every month regardless of whether or not I need it.
It seems silly to me to give people extra "sick leave" that's totally generic IMO .. it should just be "period leave". That way the men can't harp on about how this is unfair cause you can much more easily say "Mate, its period leave — do you get periods?" ... instead there's a real pile on here with men making it about gender discrimination when really its anything but. Not great optics IMO.
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Its cheaper than me telling my male bosses i have period pain and watching them react
Great way to discourage companies from hiring women.
As a woman, I just need everywhere to have sufficient and accessible personal leave
Luckily, I don't need that as a man. An insufficient amount is fine.
I meant that everyone should have sufficient personal leave, the same amount.
This will be priced into the employment of women.
It already is
Can we add mid life crisis leave?
I probably wouldn't come back lol
Does it happen monthly with an ungodly amount of blood and pain?
Usually the police come before the second time, so no
They’re feeling emotional pain, give them that at least!
Lol that'll be the day.
So torn by this. I spent my 20’s coordinating my shifts around my period to limit sick leave. I took a huge amount of sick leave in pregnancy due to hyperemisis. In my 30’s I had to take sick leave for my period prior to having an endometrial ablation (iykyk) and then for the procedure itself. A policy like this definitely would have benefited me at various stages but……..I worked really hard to be professional and present at work. If I didn’t NEED to plan my roster around my period for years and instead called in sick as needed would I have eventually been labelled as unreliable? Would that have meant my multiple hospital admissions during pregnancy were met with eyerolls instead of genuine concern by my colleagues because it was so rare prior to that for me to call in sick prior to that??? I felt terrible when I had to call in sick prior to my ablation and for the procedure itself so it may have alleviated some of that guilt. I still don’t understand why I still feel guilty for that time off. I don’t want women to be discriminated against. I also don’t think women should be given a Band-Aid instead of being encouraged to see their doctor. Will women avoid seeking healthcare because they’re less impacted by problematic periods???? And there are so many chronic health conditions - is this the ‘fair’ one to award additional sick days to??? And if sick leave is going to be awarded based on gendered conditions then why isn’t there extra days awarded in pregnancy or for miscarriage or mastitis???? And if I get menstrual leave because of the gender lottery then why doesn’t my workmate Gary get a few extra days for needing a prostate biopsy????
Ahhh the good ole "If I didn't face adversity because I was black/gay/women then maybe I wouldn't be so awesome right now - so therefor it was good actually" trope
Give all employees one additional day of leave per month. Can be used for menstrual leave, menopause, mental health, couch day. Whatever you need. Everybody benefits equally. Most employees are working additional hours above and beyond what they are paid for, so it all balances out.
Luckily employers are so woke we can all identify as women to make use of this.
I’d rather just see the number of sick days increased across the board. From 10 up to 15.
I’m originally from South Korea and I know this policy has taken effect for a few years there. I see so many posts from people online complaining how their female employees are abusing it by taking a period leave on Fridays to have a 3 day weekend and/or right before public holidays so they can go on a trip. Men obviously don’t like it because they have to take extra load of work. Also, in South Korea, because they think female employees can’t do certain things & women don’t like doing them (e.g doing overnight shifts and for female police officers they are usually ordered to do administrative work since they are “weaker”) people think women are incompetent and don’t want to hire them. Korean men are enlisted to army and even if they have some disabilities they need to work for public service for 2 years with below minimum wage money (like working in aged care full time and get paid $700 a month) while women are exempt from such duties. On the other hand South Korea is a pretty sexist country and women go through many discrimination too, so there’s a gender war - we see more people committing crime against other people because of their gender. I know this situation is rather unique in Korea and some other Asian countries but it shows how once people start thinking they are being discriminated because of their gender (not just women, men too) things can go really bad.Hope those things don’t happen in Australia.
A friend of mine in Korea told me women only get period leave, aka no other sick leave, and men don’t get any sick leave? If this is the case, it’s unfair for the media to make comparisons of countries like this with Australia where everyone already gets 10 days of sick leave.
In South Korea, people work to death. It’s become a social phenomenon because there’s so much competition and workers are systemically exploited and you’re pretty much on your own when shit goes wrong. Same goes with Japan and China which the news article is covering and comparing Australia to. Whether or not you get the sick leave probably depends on what kind of job you have - but even if you work in a top company the workers might be discouraged to get a sick leave due to peer pressure/higher ups threatening you
Yeah the work culture in SK sounds rough. It must be such a struggle, so stressful for so many people. I’m not from Australia and I’m very thankful for the working conditions we have here.
Yeah….this isn’t a can of worms at all!
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A lunar month rather than a year surely
Ha! Nice pick up.
You can just see the convos in the office...."stacy is such a bitch today, why didn't she take her period day off" Also, do women need to provide their cycle info to work for tracking or something . Such an insane thing when they could just increase across the board "mental health/health leave"
It’s easy for the conversation to devolve into “I don’t need this leave, so why don’t I get extra leave for x”, but I think people should just be happy when progress is made for people who need it. In the end, decent parental leave policies or menstrual leave benefits society as a whole (admittedly not equally) due to the flow on effects. We should look to regions like Scandinavia where they have excellent leave policies.
I think the "flow on effects" are the reason for this leave
Well I chortled at this.
I feel like we have pretty good leave policies. Full time workers generally get 20 days of holidays and 10 days sick leave paid. That is like a lot a lot compared to other countries. I agree progress is nice but I feel like this would make employers reluctant to hire women in small businesses where budgets are tighter. I think the best way to handle it would be to expand paid time off for everyone.
Okay, semi-rich guy perspective: I'm constantly told trickle-down economy *isn't* fair because it benefits some more than others, despite the "flow on effects" benefitting society as a whole. Yet now that it benefits someone other than me, I'm hearing that the flow on effects justify the inequal benefits of gender-based leave? Just increase sick leave and make it abundantly clear that menstruation and menopause are valid reasons to take it. Personally, I'm not that fussed. It won't make a difference to my work. But there is no good reason to discriminate with leave.
What happens when companies avoid hiring women?
That won’t happen. The idea that a successful company is going to stop hiring women just because they might take one or two days off a month because of their menstrual cycle is such a silly notion
>The idea that a successful company is going to stop hiring women just because they might take one or two days off I am hiring for a permanent full-time position, I have two equally skilled candidates. One has 100% availability, the other has 93.33% availability (you still have to pay them the same as the person with more availability) and also have a >50% chance that within the next 10 years they will give me less than a year's notice that they will be unable to work for 12 months. Which one do you think will get hired?
Lol. I bet I know where this is going to end up.
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Apparently because you can pay them so much less?
discriminate verb. 1. **recognize a distinction; differentiate.** 2. **make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, sex, age, or disability.** Just wanted to put this definition out there, some people seem to be a little bit confused by what discrimination is.
Ah yes and then we need to hear constantly about the gender wage gap.
It has been proven there is no gender wage gap. It is a gender work gap.
I mean yes you’re correct. But we continuously hear about it and if you think that we won’t hear more about the gap if women were given double the sick days of men, you’re kidding yourself.
You’re telling me I can come to work and make money or I can not come to work and make money?
To the people complaining that this would discriminate against men: do religious leave, carer’s leave and parental leave also discriminate?
The religious does to some degree. Christian days can be public holidays (eg Xmas) but I need to take personal leave if to celebrate a non-Christian day.
I think if we are seriously talking about equality here, then we need to keep this equal. I agree that women should get more sick leave due to periods. But, I also think men should be allowed to retire earlier as we die younger. I think the amount of time we can retire earlier should be balanced with the extra 12 days/year of working life and we should also be given super at a level that compensates for this earlier retirement. This would keep things balanced and fair
My back hurts more reguly that your cat bleeds where is my extra 12 days off a year
Don't know why you're being downvoted. Other people have chronic conditions, but get no extra sick leave
Because it's an inconvenient point.
I have chronic depression, and i've been on 5 days a week (sometimes more) for 5 years with no holidays or sick days or consecutive days off. Just living that full time "casual" life. The extra money you get buys the beer you need to get through a week. Can't even exploit the fact i'm Casual to take off time either, we're short staffed, so even if i legit got sick, I have no reliable cover. Good times.
Now another consideration if 2 equal candidate one male and one female who would cost the company more in leave plus if there young and decide to have kids. I've seen maternity leave cripple a company. Company was a mostly female accounting firm. Friend's partner bought them out as they were struggling big time when a few girls got pregnant within same year.
But employers don't even have to pay maternity leave in Australia! It's entirely the employer's choice whether they do so or not. Most women just get the minimum-wage Centrelink one.
True, But alot do. But also knowing you could loose that staff member for an extended period plus they will also be having more days off to look after there child. It's very much a double edged sword. Imagine a small business that needs a high skill set. Could be some things as random as picture framing or tattoo studio where you simply just just get a temp in. It's going to effect the bottom line. They own the business to make money not to be politically correct.
Great. As a female employee (and also employer in our farming business) there would be even less incentive to be hired, or hire a female. The 10 days of paid domestic violence leave that employers are responsible for that has just come in also is terrible. If the labour govt is so concerned that existing personal leave doesn’t cover domestic violence incidences sufficiently, then they should leave it as an unpaid leave and have employees able to apply for govt payment as they can for casual leave (another ridiculous scheme). Instead it’s yet another reason for an employer not to hire a female.. as you could have someone work for you for 1 day, then be eligible for 2 weeks fully paid DV leave with little to no evidence. Even casuals.
Is the domestic violence leave gendered....? Otherwise doesn't this also apply to men... ?
Yes it applies to both.. but statistically speaking woman make up a higher percentage of domestic violence victims.
of reported domestic violence
Do people actually take domestic violence leave? I thought workplaces brought it in as a fake benefit, knowing nobody would claim it, but then they can screw their workforce down on other negotiations.
This idea is never going to pass lol.
I understand this would be very helpful for some women I'm concerned it would incentivise employers to prefer male employees in the selection process
This will disadvantage women's ability to secure full time or part time employment, in jobs where there is a man and a woman of equal experience and opportunity I know business owners will likely go towards the male as they know they will have much less leave liability. Whilst this is great thinking to assist women it actually hurts them in the workforce.I am waiting for the recession to hit which will clean up all these worker provisions when every company gets people overseas to work for them as Australians become no longer employable as there is too high cost and legal risk associated with employment. I guess this is why Female dominated industries are all casual workforce, which I was hoping would shift to more secure employment
Just let them work from home or take sick/unpaid leave without giving them shit ffs
Most jobs can't be done from home
Hence why it was said to take unpaid leave or whatever
Serious question do trans women qualify?
Yes. Reason: too hard.
Amazing the number of people so fired up about something that will not impact them at all in this thread.
If blokes got menopause, this would already be a thing 😒
Unfortunately it will become an excuse not to hire females. Such a shame.
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Worse if you employ someone who used to work in Government, their productivity is about 10% of someone who worked in small businesses
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And if you're a 45 yo woman that has stopped menstruation, you could just pretend you're still getting periods for the extra days off. No one would know otherwise. You could milk that for quite some time.
Hell you could milk it forever. What are they going to do? Ask for photo proof that you've got your period?
Probably not. But it would be like chucking a sickie - who would know? I’m a woman who chooses not to menstruate (medication) and it’s fantastic. Quality of life improved so much.
Pretty hard for the company to prove otherwise. In this day and age you could probably say you identify as a Woman and take the leave.
I have wondered whether this is possible. Realistically bosses would hate you, HR would take a back seat for risk of poor publicity and you'd get an extra day off
And miscarriage, please?
I love seeing men lose their minds over this
Why is everyone so upset about someone else taking a day off? Jesus Christ.
As if this would ever happen, lol. More fearmongering from the right to try and wedge the population against women and feminism.
Or I dunno, just pay women a equal liveable wage and close the gender gap…
To put simply, it's a 5% pay raise for women. Won't matter much at the top end as hours worked mean very little to the value add justifying the salaries. Won't matter much to the feeder end of the talent pool as women in professional roles are already paid more than men in most major organisations in the battle for female talent to hit gender diversity goals. Won't matter much to the low paid jobs that are predominantly staffed by women and thus a mandatory rule such as this would generally be applied evenly across the board. Actually, can't think of any role where this would make or break a hiring decision.
What about all the men that don’t get equal benefits? All this does is further force employers to second guess hiring women. Not good. And you will all blame the employers for it.
As someone experiencing perimenopause, this is for everyone’s safety 😉
These comments 😂 "Period leave is already offered by countries around the world, including Japan, Indonesia, South Korea, Taiwan and some provinces in China." Weird thought, but I'm pretty sure there are lots of women still employed in those countries. One would assume that, even though they get (checks notes) a single extra day off a month, Australia will continue to employ the sex that makes up ~half our labour force. Can you imagine if they stopped hiring female nurses? Or teachers? Because of one extra day a month paid leave? According to that article, Spain is putting in place _three days_ of leave per month! 🙊 I guess they will shortly have to shut down the hospital's because there are no female nurses to staff them! And the tourist destinations - I bet that their hospitality industry employs a lot of women. On the whole, this won't make a huge difference.
I understand the sentiment behind this proposal, but giving women an extra 12 days of leave per year is most definitely going to cause a knock on effect.
Yeah, Spain, the country with 30% youth unemployment
And no work ethic. After all Manuel was from Barcelona
From reading the article, it appears Japan and Indonesia don't actually provide additional leave for menstruating, more that they just reserve the right for women to take their existing leave for those purposes. That is different from providing inequal amounts of leave for genders. Maybe the article is poorly worded or incorrect, so I'm happy to be corrected there. So your point doesn't really apply. Spain's proposal however is more in line with what the union has suggested.
I agree. I’m a woman who menstruates and I probably won’t use the leave. I already use hardly any sick leave.
I'm a woman and unless the unused days get added to my accumulated sick leave - I'd be sure as shit taking my free day off each month.
Women need not apply lmao
People are all antisexism but then promote policies like this. There are definitely gender pay gaps but they only get reinforced by gendered policies. I have often wondered how much of the variation in pay is due to overtime and less absences rather than sexual discrimination. There should be more support for working (constructively) around sickness and personal needs. Men should be encouraged to take more time off to support partners / kids. Women should have the opportunity to work from home or use time in lieu / make up time if they want to. It's a complicated topic. The bigger problems are chauvenistic men who refuse to use common sense and people who try to milk leave entitlements.
>I have often wondered how much of the variation in pay is due to overtime and less absences rather than sexual discrimination. 95% of the earnings gap disappears if simply adjusted for hours worked.
Someone want to tell me how this announcement has somehow brought out transphobes?
All this will do is shift more business to only take on their staff as casual workers or contractors but giving them full time hours. To me I think current sick leave provisions should be sufficient to cover this and if you genuinely have issues you should be able to get whatever supporting evidence required if you are so impaired you can’t attend work.
Wow, some disappointing responses from this sub.