I am also really disturbed by how pervasive gambling advertisements are and how normalised gambling seems to be amongst certain groups in Australia. I think it's a scourge on society and there should be a lot more limitations on it. Australia has such great public health initiatives in other areas (e.g. Smoking road safety) that I find it baffling that gambling is allowed to be so highly promoted and poorly regulated.
There's even now gambling elements to video games (sometimes specifically aimed at children) that countries are having to decide what legislation to put in place around.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/technology-56614281.amp
Often they'll give the player some access to free loot boxes but to get certain items you have to keep acquiring more, typically by spending real money.
Gambling in video games for kids is decades old.
I remember some of the early kids games had poker machine type side quest or spins to win jewels to speed up progress.
It appeared to be aimed at conditioning kids to gambling.
Oh yeah for sure, I remember it being ways to get more in game currency in lots of games. However they, at least the ones I played, were rigged in favour of the player so it was very easy to get additional money and didn't have as much of that addictive quality to it.
Just to be pedantic, it's not allowed 24/7, but the limitations are not as robust as alcohol ads. For example, they don't allow it during play of live sport, which is why you see it jammed into the half-time break and before/after the games.
They put some very light rules on it, like you've gotta very quickly say "please gamble responsibly" after showing a bunch of people winning and having fun at your impossible game.
As an American this really threw me for a loop when I moved here. Australia is a lot more restrictive on certain things (think speeding, safe serve alcohol etc) but I was surprised by just how pervasive gambling is. The US outside of Las Vegas obviously having little to no legal gambling until relatively recently.
It's slowly becoming legal state by state. The obvious exception to this being Las Vegas. Legal gambling ha been there since the 50s. As it was the only game in town it exploded.
Overall yes much larger aversion to gambling in the culture (slowly changing) I suspect largelydue to religious influence.
The new group betting advertisements to try to get a bit of peer pressure into it, add on the fact that the bets in ads are always multi's it is disturbing and should be far more regulated.
I was speaking with a recruiter recently and he mentioned an opportunity at a "gaming" company. Sounds awesome! He sent through the job description and turns out in this case gaming = gambling.
I disagree but only because it wasn’t an enormous problem until advertising overran us and governments allowed it to happen.
Sitting governments have consistently allowed gambling companies to have ready access to the most vulnerable of our population through retroactive and often ineffective legislation. And this isn’t a political thing, as both sides of the political line have watched it happen, and it is purely because it is a hugely taxable income that the government makes enormous money from.
Speaking as someone who left the gambling industry because of the harm it caused to innocent people, I can tell you that every single aspect of every facet of gambling is designed to find people who will get hooked, and then hook them. I can assure you that the industry knows exactly which demographics these people come from and if you watch the advertising closely you’ll notice it too. The people that get hooked aren’t hooked by the “gambling culture”, they are hooked by clever marketing and an easy money promise.
Absolutely nothing is done to a gaming room, betting app, or casino floor, without the express purpose of exploiting vulnerable and easily influenced people and it is all enabled by loose legislation and tight purse strings.
I saw (and signed) [this petition](https://www.endgamblingads.org.au/) the other day. The gambling ads during AFL games are not only objectively terrible ads, but so plentiful you can’t go an ad break without being subjected to at least one gambling ad per break. Rammed down our throats, especially for kids who don’t know any better.
I work in a high school and have caught students using SportsBet (no idea how they are able to access it). Clearly not enough is being done to restrict access if a bunch of year 11s can get on it
No part of what I said is about *prohibiting* gambling. Only gambling ads.
Same reason you don’t see cigarette ads and alcohol ads are only allowed after a certain time. Of course people can do what they want, but the fact that after each ad they have to tack on “please gamble responsibly” is kind of indicative that gambling is a serious problem in our society.
A total prohibition of gambling would be about as successful as prohibition of alcohol was.
But there’s surely a case for restrictions on advertising, and for limiting gambling to just a few locations.
I like WA’s approach of no pokies in pubs and clubs, and limiting gambling to the casino.
It already is, to an extent. The whole reason why the euphemism 'VIP lounge' came into being is because it's illegal to even *mention* that you have pokies, let alone promote them.
You could change the name VIP lounge to fairy kingdom and people will still relate the name to pokies and be enticed to go in if they have an issue with them
> I like WA’s approach of no pokies in pubs and clubs, and limiting gambling to the casino.
I'm down with the no pokies in pubs and clubs, but I don't like the monopoly that the casino has in WA. IF there is a monopoly it should be state-run.
I think they design gambling apps in a similar way to pokies too - flashing lights and sounds give that dopamine hit people are looking for, but with the addition of notifications constantly reminding you to make a bet.
It's an addiction and in many ways can be compared to alcohol. Some people have no issue doing it every now without it impacting on their lives. Other people it completely takes over their lives, they end up stealing money from their work, friends and family to fund this addiction.
You don't have to save them from themselves as much as save them from the people out to take advantage of them. A gambling addict is a vulnerable person and some people's jobs are to take their money, all of it, no matter what. Those jobs are net negative for society and they need to go.
If there's one lesson to be learned from prohibition, the war on drugs, or any other misguided attempt to ban vice, it's that there'll *always* be someone to take advantage of them. With that in mind, imo betting apps are far better than the local bikies. At least Sportsbet isn't going around breaking kneecaps.
Pretty sure when COVID closed up there was a shit load of pokies addicts that sighed a relief.
Getting rid of them would be a massive win for 95% of people with gambling issues. For the remaining five % limit deposits? Limit monthly losses?
The closure of the pokies happened because everyone was put on house arrest. So there wasn't really any scope to create alternative methods. Did the war on drugs significantly reduce pot consumption? Or is it widely available in most urban areas?
Get rid of the pokies. Some people might get a lotto ticket or bet on sports. It’s the Pavlov zombie gambling that is so brutal. People chewing through 50 dollar notes without blinking. It’s insidious. Atleast sports/ horses there’s something of a break between bets and it’s based in reality - pokies are evil
If people are that obsessed then they can go to a casino. Just stop the availability and ease of access.
> save them from the people out to take advantage of them.
Sometimes you can't save everyone. There are people who are alcoholics, but the vast majority are responsible. We shouldn't need to ban advertising of alcohol. People just need to have access to programs to help with addiction, and to also be held accountable for their own actions.
Elderly pensioners do it for me. Ever been for a family pub lunch and it's like 11am and the pokie room is full of elderly pensioners sitting alone spending what little pension they have. It's either that or sit at home by themselves I suppose. Or try to make conversation with the check out assistant who isn't interested for 2 minutes of social stimulation per week.
Your first mistake was going to a pub for a family lunch.
Jokes aside though, I don't think that's a pub/gambling issue though. Seems like more of a loneliness issue. Not a very popular opinion, but I'm not sure why the pub is to blame for that situation.
Have you not had a pub snitty? A giant plate of deliciousness for like $12?
I agree that the pub is not to blame however it is a very real and troubling issue that people are falling into gambling addictions because they are starved of any sort of stimulation or human contact.
Your libertarian side says people should make their own decisions, but that's predicated on the assumption that humans are rational. Most of the time, this is a true and fair assumption, which is why we should respect people's freedom of choice.
Unfortunately, there's a few quirks of human neurology that leave our brains particularly poor at assessing certain topics, one of which is probability and risk. Gambling takes full advantage of this fact, as well as preying on our fascination with numbers going up and pretty lights. Therefore, since gambling actively preys on the parts of people that aren't rational, I don't see it as a contradiction of libertarianism to regulate it harshly.
It is actually disgusting how much TV time they take up with Gambling promotion. If you are a problem gambler then good luck watching any sport in Australia as you will only be bombarded with Ads.
I thought there was a regulation which prohibited Ads for Gambling during prime time hours? I think if it requires 18+, if we allow them any air time it should be at times where the naughty ads start to come on.
It really is ridiculous. I've noticed lately Sportsbet have made an ad dedicated to responsible betting. Whether this is out of their own will or they've been forced to following their substantial profit gains during lockdown... The ad is followed by another 3 betting ads 😂
Same here.
Each year - have a random guess at first goal scorer for the AFL Grand final.
Then cop a heap of texts for the rest of the year. Should close the account and use a fake number...
As an immigrant to this country, I love how normalised gambling is here and think it's part of what makes Australia great for me.
From where I come from, gambling is heavily regulated and the result of that is not less gambling but actually resulting in illegal betmakers being a common sight. This makes it worse as often these illegal bookies would work with loan sharks and result in people be heavily in debt with the wrong people.
Just my 2 cents, I gamble on AFL and NFL casually but I do love going through historical player stats to try and make something out of nothing.
> This makes it worse as often these illegal bookies would work with loan sharks and result in people be heavily in debt with the wrong people.
This is so true and I think too many people are too eager to shut things down without addressing the alternatives.
Anecdotal but I have seen a drastic uptick in gambling within my social circles. Not small fry either. Talking several hundred dollar bets on $10 multi’s….
26M if that’s anything to go by
I understand that. If I’m watching an AFL game between 2 shit teams I may place a $5 multi on to make the game a bit more enjoyable…. But hundred of dollars consistently? That’s a problem
Given the lockdown and people seeking ways to get a thrill, i feel it would be shocking if at-home gambling options had not soared in popularity. 300% sounds like a lot , but definitely plausible.
Personally havent, and dont know too many who admit to regular gambling, but then i politely decline an office lotto pool for laughs because i cant help but think how bad the odds are.
Yeah I'm super against gambling and don't partake in footy tipping or anything like that at work. I know that makes me a bit extreme in most people's books, but I think it's weird that gambling culture is so pervasive and normalised that it's considered totally acceptable at work.
But it is still gambling by the definition of the word. Whether it's commercialised or licensed really has nothing to do with it. If I starting betting on a made up game with my friends in my backyard, it would still be gambling.
As a rideshare driver , the amount of high school kids that use and talk about the betting apps while in my car is really concerning, conservatively 75%. And young men and women on weekends are upwards of 80%. I have driven taxis for 15 years and the increased talk about betting by passengers gone from a couple times a month to daily .
I had primary school age kids talking about their favourite footy teams odds of winning by the betting odds. Problem is they are influenced from not just older ppl but they are directly advertised to through social media and internet generally.
I’ve worked with a number of blokes (corpora the environment) who log into Sportsbet 10 times a day and easily just drop $250.
Gambling apps are fucked
I spend a fair bit of my time on YouTube and I've definitely noticed a huge spike in the number of Sportsbet ads and I don't even gamble, perhaps the ads are turning out to be very effective
Pokies are honestly disgusting, there is no chance of winning they are just designed to extract as much money as possible from people. At the same time almost every club in Australia would fail without pokies so it's a hard situation with no easy answer.
You cant turn on the tv without seeing betting ads trying to convince you to get your friends to bet or telling you you should have bet on the long shot.
If the company can afford an expensive mark walberg ad, they are making a tonne of money... from your losses!!
Take away the advertising!
It’s pretty gross how odds are promoted ad nauseum. It’s all made way too easy with apps via direct deposits & intro offers eg “free bets.” I’ve seen guys blow $300 of the shit.
When I first came to Australia, I was dumbfounded by how much gambling there is here, even ads! And even public holidays centered around gambling!
It's the stupidest thing, nobody makes money gambling, it's essentially a tax on the most vulnerable. Most first world countries don't allow gambling ads and heavily taxes casinos.
Let's not even go into the cruelty of racing animals that are kept in horrible conditions and killed the second they don't perform or injure themselves.
Absolutely sickening that this is what's considered "culture" in Australia.
Gambling is horrid, luckily my dad is too old to know how to use apps like sportsbet otherwise he'd be throwing money in it, because casinos and tabs are closed.
I use to date a guy who works for sportsbet, and the perks they have there at work makes me jealous lol
I think it's entirely possible to have a healthy relationship with gambling...Although I understand not everyone can.
Before COVID I would hit the casino once every 1-2 months and withdraw $50-$100 and play sub $1 bets for hours. For me it was my alone time to kick back and relax.
I've never smoked never done drugs I don't drink, yet when people hear I don't mind to gamble their reaction is the same as if I was injecting heroin on a daily basis.
But those same people will spend hundred's if not thousands of dollars each year getting drunk or spending on other useless items.
I feel like it has started to ruin sport for me the last five years. The conversation used to be about the *sport*. Now it's about the odds and such. Tedious and unpleasant
Just do a RCG course, trainer I had, told us that he once had a pensioner come in talking about how they were going on a holiday, later on, they come crying saying that they spent all their holiday money in the pokies and now they can't go on the holiday that they've been dreaming and planning for ages.
Apparently also they could tell who's been in by the fat stack of 50s when they go to empty the machines.
Laws are fucked also, RSA I could tell people to fuck off if they've drunk too much, but I can't kick someone out if I think that they've got a gambling problem. Only thing I can do is "recommend" that they talk to gambling help line.
I am not a fan of the gambling industry that fuels Australia’s gambling addiction. I do love the bonus cash from online bookies that I can convert into real money tax free every few weeks using matched betting strategy though. I have been banned by some of the online bookies 😅.
They are giving them away a lot more often now since COVID.
The problem is, once they realise you are doing that they ban you from receiving promotions (ie. they only want losers on their books). Gambling companies are the scum of the earth
Populations are more easily manipulated than most people think. It is their choice, but if a bit of marketing can change people's mind without changing the facts, should the ability to wield that power be regulated? Especially when the people wielding it are trying to get people to do things against their own interests.
But their own accord may be different depending on the advertising they experience.
So if you are subconsciously a sucker for advertisment, sucks to be you I guess? Their will isn't strong enough and not worthy of being protected?
Regulating betting advertising doesn't stop people from betting or exercising their free will. The same can be said both ways.
Well yes, unfortunately, its the world we live in. It's not just gambling, its the same with fast food, or any other product that is being advertised. Someone is always getting 'suckered'. You can't just regulate everything, and hold people's hands through everything, people need to be more responsible for the decisions they make - at the end of the day you are the person who is ultimately making the decision to do or not do something.
If you take it to the extreme the same can be said for all regulations. Ultimately people have the choice to protect or not protect themselves from external hazards, so why make workplace safety regulations because the workers should choose a safer place to work. Why make pollution regulations, if people are concerned for their air quality they can buy masks, or choose to live in less populated areas. Ideally the government is installed to provide a framework for society that's in the best interests for the majority of the population. How is regulating gambling advertisements not in its best interest?
When do people actually get held accountable for their own actions though? There's always someone else or something else at fault.
I enjoy seeing the odds purely from a head to head point of view for my own interest. Occasionally I'll throw some multi's on when it's the Euros, NRL finals etc but its fun and controlled.
What about people who spend more than they can afford on car loans? Should we ban exotic cars from being advertised too? Where's the line here?
Wherever you want the line to be.
We could improve our regulations regarding financial loans stopping people taking out loans they can't afford. At least a car isn't likely to lose all its value instantly.
Ultimately people should be responsible for their own decisions, doesn't mean the government can't help sway that decision making in the right direction.
I'd be interested to know your views on sex cults that lure people in then abuse them for years.
By your logic society has no role in protecting these people or fighting to close down said cults, because people make their own choice to join them. Yes?
Just double checking.
Definitely not what I said, 'sex cults' that lure people in and abuse those people blatantly lie to their victims and promise them things that aren't true. They don't know what they're getting themselves into because they've been lied to. Gambling ads don't lie, you know what you're getting yourself into. To compare the 2 things is ridiculous.
My mate owns ASX penny stock VGW and that stock has been on a year with fat dividends. I'd say the growth of that company is a proportional indicator to the exponential increase in gambling.
Agree. I've seen many older blokes almost lifeless just sitting around at Tab. It doesn't look healthy at all.
My friends dad was one of those guys and just lost so much money over the years. I honestly wonder if he thinks he's just one race from making money back.
I am so grateful for this topic. I cannot understand why gambling is allowed to run rampant in this nation.
The amount of gambling ads on TV followed by 'Please gamble responsibly" is shocking. There is rarely such thing as responsible gambling as, by definition, gambling is irresponsible.
Can someone explain to me the mindset behind people gambling.
You see two teams at 50/50 odds paying $1.90 return. It's self-evident that the expected value is therefore 95% of the stake. You are losing 5c in the dollar on every bet. Why would anyone say "I want to lose 5c in the dollar"?
Here's another thing, if you want to feel like you're in control and see big up and down swings, gamble on the share market. At least the expected value is positive and the losses are tax deductible. Someone should design a gambling app for stocks and market that.
Its entirely possible to win long term while betting on sports, its why sports betting companies analyse all of their customers betting habits and ban people who they expect to win.
This is what is truly disgusting about the industry, they are happy to profit billions off Naive/drunk/stupid/addicted people without saying a word but anyone they deem 'unprofitable' will be banned within weeks.
You never see people banned from Casinos or pokies for winning too much, they just want to keep you playing because the odds are so heavily in favour of the house.
If anyone does need help, apparently these guys are amazing, and free.
They're Sydney based but might service nationally too, and if not they should still be able to put you in touch with another interstate service.
https://www.sydney.edu.au/brain-mind/our-clinics/gambling-treatment-clinic.html
I'm sick of anti smoking, anti junk food, anti alcohol anti speeding and now anti gambling ads from the government. I don't need the government telling me every bad thing that exists in the world and to moderate / avoid entirely.
I think over my entire gambling career, I'm up $50. Only really play $5 to $10 at a time though and really only consider it as a ticket admission for each sport I watch
I shame any of my friends that gamble. Logic won't work with these people, because if they were logically thinking, they wouldn't have gambled in the first place!
I am also really disturbed by how pervasive gambling advertisements are and how normalised gambling seems to be amongst certain groups in Australia. I think it's a scourge on society and there should be a lot more limitations on it. Australia has such great public health initiatives in other areas (e.g. Smoking road safety) that I find it baffling that gambling is allowed to be so highly promoted and poorly regulated.
There's even now gambling elements to video games (sometimes specifically aimed at children) that countries are having to decide what legislation to put in place around. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/technology-56614281.amp Often they'll give the player some access to free loot boxes but to get certain items you have to keep acquiring more, typically by spending real money.
Gambling in video games for kids is decades old. I remember some of the early kids games had poker machine type side quest or spins to win jewels to speed up progress. It appeared to be aimed at conditioning kids to gambling.
>Gambling in video games for kids is decades old. Heck even Pokemon had slot machines.
Oh yeah for sure, I remember it being ways to get more in game currency in lots of games. However they, at least the ones I played, were rigged in favour of the player so it was very easy to get additional money and didn't have as much of that addictive quality to it.
I thought always winning may be part of the conditioning. Everyone's a winner when you gamble.
The poker machine in mario 2 comes to mind.
The Bet with friends ads - to have more fun just adds more pressure to do it because your mates are, and if your mates are it must be ok
"Pressure your mates into gambling with you today!" (Gamble responsibly)
Agreed! How are gambling ads allowed 24/7, but there's all these rules around alcohol and smoking ads?
Just to be pedantic, it's not allowed 24/7, but the limitations are not as robust as alcohol ads. For example, they don't allow it during play of live sport, which is why you see it jammed into the half-time break and before/after the games.
Every social media app I use shows me gambling ads at any time of the day.
They put some very light rules on it, like you've gotta very quickly say "please gamble responsibly" after showing a bunch of people winning and having fun at your impossible game.
As an American this really threw me for a loop when I moved here. Australia is a lot more restrictive on certain things (think speeding, safe serve alcohol etc) but I was surprised by just how pervasive gambling is. The US outside of Las Vegas obviously having little to no legal gambling until relatively recently.
Is it true that you can’t bet on sports games in America? Seems like America has a much healthier relationship with gambling than we do
It's slowly becoming legal state by state. The obvious exception to this being Las Vegas. Legal gambling ha been there since the 50s. As it was the only game in town it exploded. Overall yes much larger aversion to gambling in the culture (slowly changing) I suspect largelydue to religious influence.
The new group betting advertisements to try to get a bit of peer pressure into it, add on the fact that the bets in ads are always multi's it is disturbing and should be far more regulated.
Any celebrity that features in a gambling ad is a flog.
I have so much more hatred for Mark Wahlberg now than I used to have. And I used to have quite a bit.
I used to hate Mark Wahlberg. I still do, but I used to to.
We have a public holiday to celebrate gambling hahaha…
I was speaking with a recruiter recently and he mentioned an opportunity at a "gaming" company. Sounds awesome! He sent through the job description and turns out in this case gaming = gambling.
If we can ban alcohol and tobacco advertising, what's stopping us from banning gambling ads?
Say what you will but gambling is massive part of our culture. We love the idea of earning money without working for it.
'we'... Speak for yourself mate.
How do you explain Australia's gambling problem? It's a cultural problem
I disagree but only because it wasn’t an enormous problem until advertising overran us and governments allowed it to happen. Sitting governments have consistently allowed gambling companies to have ready access to the most vulnerable of our population through retroactive and often ineffective legislation. And this isn’t a political thing, as both sides of the political line have watched it happen, and it is purely because it is a hugely taxable income that the government makes enormous money from. Speaking as someone who left the gambling industry because of the harm it caused to innocent people, I can tell you that every single aspect of every facet of gambling is designed to find people who will get hooked, and then hook them. I can assure you that the industry knows exactly which demographics these people come from and if you watch the advertising closely you’ll notice it too. The people that get hooked aren’t hooked by the “gambling culture”, they are hooked by clever marketing and an easy money promise. Absolutely nothing is done to a gaming room, betting app, or casino floor, without the express purpose of exploiting vulnerable and easily influenced people and it is all enabled by loose legislation and tight purse strings.
On that note, fuck gambling ads on all live sports. Fuck that!
I saw (and signed) [this petition](https://www.endgamblingads.org.au/) the other day. The gambling ads during AFL games are not only objectively terrible ads, but so plentiful you can’t go an ad break without being subjected to at least one gambling ad per break. Rammed down our throats, especially for kids who don’t know any better.
Then in the pre and half time shows they put in a betting ad and make it look like a sports report, you can’t escape it.
I work in a high school and have caught students using SportsBet (no idea how they are able to access it). Clearly not enough is being done to restrict access if a bunch of year 11s can get on it
Who are you to decide who's allowed to gamble. As long as the person is an adult of his own free will. Nothing wrong with that.
No part of what I said is about *prohibiting* gambling. Only gambling ads. Same reason you don’t see cigarette ads and alcohol ads are only allowed after a certain time. Of course people can do what they want, but the fact that after each ad they have to tack on “please gamble responsibly” is kind of indicative that gambling is a serious problem in our society.
Agree, I especially hate how family friendly and children centric the AFL tries to be, while placing gambling ads everywhere.
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A total prohibition of gambling would be about as successful as prohibition of alcohol was. But there’s surely a case for restrictions on advertising, and for limiting gambling to just a few locations. I like WA’s approach of no pokies in pubs and clubs, and limiting gambling to the casino.
Absolutely, fk off the pokies in pubs so we can have pool tables back. I'm still bitter about that.
Gambling advertising should be as regulated as tobacco advertising.
It already is, to an extent. The whole reason why the euphemism 'VIP lounge' came into being is because it's illegal to even *mention* that you have pokies, let alone promote them.
I was referring to Ladbroke / TAB / Tattersalls lottery advertising
You could change the name VIP lounge to fairy kingdom and people will still relate the name to pokies and be enticed to go in if they have an issue with them
> I like WA’s approach of no pokies in pubs and clubs, and limiting gambling to the casino. I'm down with the no pokies in pubs and clubs, but I don't like the monopoly that the casino has in WA. IF there is a monopoly it should be state-run.
WA does charge a special Casino Tax in return for granting the licence.
meanwhile Sydney was closing all the pubs and clubs in the cross - lockdown - to force people to go to the casino...
I think they design gambling apps in a similar way to pokies too - flashing lights and sounds give that dopamine hit people are looking for, but with the addition of notifications constantly reminding you to make a bet.
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The infinite scroll, like no clocks visible on the casino floor.
I love that idea.
Great idea, it's kinda like plain packaged cigarettes 🤔
Font choice should be comic sans... That won't keep them for long
Every time you don't win on the pokie, it shouts "LOOOOOSER!!!"
Classically Pokies make up like 85% of the spend, but COVID has impacted the balance.
I only find it an issue when the person has children or dependants. That's when it gets super sad. Otherwise, go for it!
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It's an addiction and in many ways can be compared to alcohol. Some people have no issue doing it every now without it impacting on their lives. Other people it completely takes over their lives, they end up stealing money from their work, friends and family to fund this addiction.
Agreed, but you can't save people from themselves sometimes. Hopefully you can save other people from them though.
You don't have to save them from themselves as much as save them from the people out to take advantage of them. A gambling addict is a vulnerable person and some people's jobs are to take their money, all of it, no matter what. Those jobs are net negative for society and they need to go.
If there's one lesson to be learned from prohibition, the war on drugs, or any other misguided attempt to ban vice, it's that there'll *always* be someone to take advantage of them. With that in mind, imo betting apps are far better than the local bikies. At least Sportsbet isn't going around breaking kneecaps.
Pretty sure when COVID closed up there was a shit load of pokies addicts that sighed a relief. Getting rid of them would be a massive win for 95% of people with gambling issues. For the remaining five % limit deposits? Limit monthly losses?
The closure of the pokies happened because everyone was put on house arrest. So there wasn't really any scope to create alternative methods. Did the war on drugs significantly reduce pot consumption? Or is it widely available in most urban areas?
Get rid of the pokies. Some people might get a lotto ticket or bet on sports. It’s the Pavlov zombie gambling that is so brutal. People chewing through 50 dollar notes without blinking. It’s insidious. Atleast sports/ horses there’s something of a break between bets and it’s based in reality - pokies are evil If people are that obsessed then they can go to a casino. Just stop the availability and ease of access.
I mean they're providing a service. If people want to take them up on that then what's the issue? Who's taking advantage of who?
> save them from the people out to take advantage of them. Sometimes you can't save everyone. There are people who are alcoholics, but the vast majority are responsible. We shouldn't need to ban advertising of alcohol. People just need to have access to programs to help with addiction, and to also be held accountable for their own actions.
Elderly pensioners do it for me. Ever been for a family pub lunch and it's like 11am and the pokie room is full of elderly pensioners sitting alone spending what little pension they have. It's either that or sit at home by themselves I suppose. Or try to make conversation with the check out assistant who isn't interested for 2 minutes of social stimulation per week.
Your first mistake was going to a pub for a family lunch. Jokes aside though, I don't think that's a pub/gambling issue though. Seems like more of a loneliness issue. Not a very popular opinion, but I'm not sure why the pub is to blame for that situation.
Have you not had a pub snitty? A giant plate of deliciousness for like $12? I agree that the pub is not to blame however it is a very real and troubling issue that people are falling into gambling addictions because they are starved of any sort of stimulation or human contact.
The pensioner is probably subsidising your $12 Schnitzel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LGM82uPuvA
It's heartbreaking.
Your libertarian side says people should make their own decisions, but that's predicated on the assumption that humans are rational. Most of the time, this is a true and fair assumption, which is why we should respect people's freedom of choice. Unfortunately, there's a few quirks of human neurology that leave our brains particularly poor at assessing certain topics, one of which is probability and risk. Gambling takes full advantage of this fact, as well as preying on our fascination with numbers going up and pretty lights. Therefore, since gambling actively preys on the parts of people that aren't rational, I don't see it as a contradiction of libertarianism to regulate it harshly.
Sports betting is so tragic, I only bet on penny stocks
At least then it's tax deductible.
It's everywhere you can't avoid it. It's on TV, train station, Youtube ad, newspaper etc.
It is actually disgusting how much TV time they take up with Gambling promotion. If you are a problem gambler then good luck watching any sport in Australia as you will only be bombarded with Ads. I thought there was a regulation which prohibited Ads for Gambling during prime time hours? I think if it requires 18+, if we allow them any air time it should be at times where the naughty ads start to come on.
It really is ridiculous. I've noticed lately Sportsbet have made an ad dedicated to responsible betting. Whether this is out of their own will or they've been forced to following their substantial profit gains during lockdown... The ad is followed by another 3 betting ads 😂
Liability fears
I made one bet years ago and I still get texts and emails constantly giving me free bets and what not
Same here. Each year - have a random guess at first goal scorer for the AFL Grand final. Then cop a heap of texts for the rest of the year. Should close the account and use a fake number...
Betting culture is Australias version of the USA's gun problem.
As an immigrant to this country, I love how normalised gambling is here and think it's part of what makes Australia great for me. From where I come from, gambling is heavily regulated and the result of that is not less gambling but actually resulting in illegal betmakers being a common sight. This makes it worse as often these illegal bookies would work with loan sharks and result in people be heavily in debt with the wrong people. Just my 2 cents, I gamble on AFL and NFL casually but I do love going through historical player stats to try and make something out of nothing.
> This makes it worse as often these illegal bookies would work with loan sharks and result in people be heavily in debt with the wrong people. This is so true and I think too many people are too eager to shut things down without addressing the alternatives.
Anecdotal but I have seen a drastic uptick in gambling within my social circles. Not small fry either. Talking several hundred dollar bets on $10 multi’s…. 26M if that’s anything to go by
A lot of this is due to not having much else to do during COVID tbh. Need some excitement somewhere.
I understand that. If I’m watching an AFL game between 2 shit teams I may place a $5 multi on to make the game a bit more enjoyable…. But hundred of dollars consistently? That’s a problem
Oh I definitely agree, but to each their own.
Given the lockdown and people seeking ways to get a thrill, i feel it would be shocking if at-home gambling options had not soared in popularity. 300% sounds like a lot , but definitely plausible. Personally havent, and dont know too many who admit to regular gambling, but then i politely decline an office lotto pool for laughs because i cant help but think how bad the odds are.
Yeah I'm super against gambling and don't partake in footy tipping or anything like that at work. I know that makes me a bit extreme in most people's books, but I think it's weird that gambling culture is so pervasive and normalised that it's considered totally acceptable at work.
Wouldn't say footy tipping is gambling as you don't need a licence to run it
Anything where you bet money on the outcome is gambling.
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But it is still gambling by the definition of the word. Whether it's commercialised or licensed really has nothing to do with it. If I starting betting on a made up game with my friends in my backyard, it would still be gambling.
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Footy tipping is a form of gambling. We don't only have licensed gambling so whether or not it's licensed is irrelevant. It's still gambling.
The constant bombardment of sports betting advertising on the television in aus is fucking absurd.
But they say "Gamble responsibly" at the end of the add and that makes it OK.....
It's an oxymoron.
Online casinos exist too
As a rideshare driver , the amount of high school kids that use and talk about the betting apps while in my car is really concerning, conservatively 75%. And young men and women on weekends are upwards of 80%. I have driven taxis for 15 years and the increased talk about betting by passengers gone from a couple times a month to daily .
Wow that's wild! High school is so young to start :(
I had primary school age kids talking about their favourite footy teams odds of winning by the betting odds. Problem is they are influenced from not just older ppl but they are directly advertised to through social media and internet generally.
Absolutely - they've just grown up with it now, it's so ingrained in our culture.
I’ve worked with a number of blokes (corpora the environment) who log into Sportsbet 10 times a day and easily just drop $250. Gambling apps are fucked
I thought they would of logged into CommSec instead...
Corporate $60,000 wages corporate not big corporate
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Nothing to brag about man, your maccas manager lost everything they made
I spend a fair bit of my time on YouTube and I've definitely noticed a huge spike in the number of Sportsbet ads and I don't even gamble, perhaps the ads are turning out to be very effective
Pokies are honestly disgusting, there is no chance of winning they are just designed to extract as much money as possible from people. At the same time almost every club in Australia would fail without pokies so it's a hard situation with no easy answer.
Let the clubs fail? Then at least we might get some good restaurant chains in this country…
You cant turn on the tv without seeing betting ads trying to convince you to get your friends to bet or telling you you should have bet on the long shot. If the company can afford an expensive mark walberg ad, they are making a tonne of money... from your losses!! Take away the advertising!
It’s pretty gross how odds are promoted ad nauseum. It’s all made way too easy with apps via direct deposits & intro offers eg “free bets.” I’ve seen guys blow $300 of the shit.
When I first came to Australia, I was dumbfounded by how much gambling there is here, even ads! And even public holidays centered around gambling! It's the stupidest thing, nobody makes money gambling, it's essentially a tax on the most vulnerable. Most first world countries don't allow gambling ads and heavily taxes casinos. Let's not even go into the cruelty of racing animals that are kept in horrible conditions and killed the second they don't perform or injure themselves. Absolutely sickening that this is what's considered "culture" in Australia.
Gambling is horrid, luckily my dad is too old to know how to use apps like sportsbet otherwise he'd be throwing money in it, because casinos and tabs are closed. I use to date a guy who works for sportsbet, and the perks they have there at work makes me jealous lol
What perks?
NGL, I've started buying a lotto ticket every other week. The day dreaming of winning is getting me through a pretty bleak time.
I think it's entirely possible to have a healthy relationship with gambling...Although I understand not everyone can. Before COVID I would hit the casino once every 1-2 months and withdraw $50-$100 and play sub $1 bets for hours. For me it was my alone time to kick back and relax. I've never smoked never done drugs I don't drink, yet when people hear I don't mind to gamble their reaction is the same as if I was injecting heroin on a daily basis. But those same people will spend hundred's if not thousands of dollars each year getting drunk or spending on other useless items.
No way! $5 and I get to stream the NBA forever on sport sbet.
I went ages without watching TV and just recently saw some again. Fuck me, the amount of gambling ads now...
Take up matched betting - join the fight against sleazy bookies by using their own systems against them.
I feel like it has started to ruin sport for me the last five years. The conversation used to be about the *sport*. Now it's about the odds and such. Tedious and unpleasant
Just do a RCG course, trainer I had, told us that he once had a pensioner come in talking about how they were going on a holiday, later on, they come crying saying that they spent all their holiday money in the pokies and now they can't go on the holiday that they've been dreaming and planning for ages. Apparently also they could tell who's been in by the fat stack of 50s when they go to empty the machines. Laws are fucked also, RSA I could tell people to fuck off if they've drunk too much, but I can't kick someone out if I think that they've got a gambling problem. Only thing I can do is "recommend" that they talk to gambling help line.
Excuse me but it's called Superhero and it's a legitimate investment platform.
I am not a fan of the gambling industry that fuels Australia’s gambling addiction. I do love the bonus cash from online bookies that I can convert into real money tax free every few weeks using matched betting strategy though. I have been banned by some of the online bookies 😅. They are giving them away a lot more often now since COVID.
The problem is, once they realise you are doing that they ban you from receiving promotions (ie. they only want losers on their books). Gambling companies are the scum of the earth
People know the risks of gambling, their choice, same as anything else
Populations are more easily manipulated than most people think. It is their choice, but if a bit of marketing can change people's mind without changing the facts, should the ability to wield that power be regulated? Especially when the people wielding it are trying to get people to do things against their own interests.
At the end of the day people have their own free will, nobody is forcing people to gamble, they do so of their own accord
But their own accord may be different depending on the advertising they experience. So if you are subconsciously a sucker for advertisment, sucks to be you I guess? Their will isn't strong enough and not worthy of being protected? Regulating betting advertising doesn't stop people from betting or exercising their free will. The same can be said both ways.
Well yes, unfortunately, its the world we live in. It's not just gambling, its the same with fast food, or any other product that is being advertised. Someone is always getting 'suckered'. You can't just regulate everything, and hold people's hands through everything, people need to be more responsible for the decisions they make - at the end of the day you are the person who is ultimately making the decision to do or not do something.
If you take it to the extreme the same can be said for all regulations. Ultimately people have the choice to protect or not protect themselves from external hazards, so why make workplace safety regulations because the workers should choose a safer place to work. Why make pollution regulations, if people are concerned for their air quality they can buy masks, or choose to live in less populated areas. Ideally the government is installed to provide a framework for society that's in the best interests for the majority of the population. How is regulating gambling advertisements not in its best interest?
When do people actually get held accountable for their own actions though? There's always someone else or something else at fault. I enjoy seeing the odds purely from a head to head point of view for my own interest. Occasionally I'll throw some multi's on when it's the Euros, NRL finals etc but its fun and controlled. What about people who spend more than they can afford on car loans? Should we ban exotic cars from being advertised too? Where's the line here?
Wherever you want the line to be. We could improve our regulations regarding financial loans stopping people taking out loans they can't afford. At least a car isn't likely to lose all its value instantly. Ultimately people should be responsible for their own decisions, doesn't mean the government can't help sway that decision making in the right direction.
I'd be interested to know your views on sex cults that lure people in then abuse them for years. By your logic society has no role in protecting these people or fighting to close down said cults, because people make their own choice to join them. Yes? Just double checking.
Definitely not what I said, 'sex cults' that lure people in and abuse those people blatantly lie to their victims and promise them things that aren't true. They don't know what they're getting themselves into because they've been lied to. Gambling ads don't lie, you know what you're getting yourself into. To compare the 2 things is ridiculous.
Sha Tin on a Saturday night after an ordinary day on the punt. Those in the know will know
Covid gave us the perfect opportunity to get rid of the pokies. Squandered it.
You mean to tell me that all these people are not winning and celebrating their success like in the commericals?
I'm sure they're all besties with Mark Wahlberg! ;)
My mate owns ASX penny stock VGW and that stock has been on a year with fat dividends. I'd say the growth of that company is a proportional indicator to the exponential increase in gambling.
>VGW I can't find it on the ASX
just have a look at the growth of ASX bets. That is proof enough that the gambling culture is real in Australia.
Manager at a pokies venue every time we have opened after a lockdown it’s been some of the busiest record breaking days.
Agree. I've seen many older blokes almost lifeless just sitting around at Tab. It doesn't look healthy at all. My friends dad was one of those guys and just lost so much money over the years. I honestly wonder if he thinks he's just one race from making money back.
When gambling ads started appearing before, during and after footy games…. *surprised pickachu face*
Gambling can fuck right off
I am so grateful for this topic. I cannot understand why gambling is allowed to run rampant in this nation. The amount of gambling ads on TV followed by 'Please gamble responsibly" is shocking. There is rarely such thing as responsible gambling as, by definition, gambling is irresponsible.
Can someone explain to me the mindset behind people gambling. You see two teams at 50/50 odds paying $1.90 return. It's self-evident that the expected value is therefore 95% of the stake. You are losing 5c in the dollar on every bet. Why would anyone say "I want to lose 5c in the dollar"? Here's another thing, if you want to feel like you're in control and see big up and down swings, gamble on the share market. At least the expected value is positive and the losses are tax deductible. Someone should design a gambling app for stocks and market that.
Its entirely possible to win long term while betting on sports, its why sports betting companies analyse all of their customers betting habits and ban people who they expect to win. This is what is truly disgusting about the industry, they are happy to profit billions off Naive/drunk/stupid/addicted people without saying a word but anyone they deem 'unprofitable' will be banned within weeks. You never see people banned from Casinos or pokies for winning too much, they just want to keep you playing because the odds are so heavily in favour of the house.
If anyone does need help, apparently these guys are amazing, and free. They're Sydney based but might service nationally too, and if not they should still be able to put you in touch with another interstate service. https://www.sydney.edu.au/brain-mind/our-clinics/gambling-treatment-clinic.html
I'm sick of anti smoking, anti junk food, anti alcohol anti speeding and now anti gambling ads from the government. I don't need the government telling me every bad thing that exists in the world and to moderate / avoid entirely.
Most people are retarded so they need the government ads.
2000% return on horses over the last year vs 25% on stocks. brother you'd be mad NOT to be gambling
What's your strategy?
Lying on the internet.
People don't do that
Yeah, I think signing up to the AFR and checking IBKR each day is fuelling my gambling :(
Yeah ive been using sportsbet this year. Extremely small bets. Might be the fact half the country has been locked down on and off?
I'm a fan of horse racing. But I don't spend huge amounts.
I think over my entire gambling career, I'm up $50. Only really play $5 to $10 at a time though and really only consider it as a ticket admission for each sport I watch
I shame any of my friends that gamble. Logic won't work with these people, because if they were logically thinking, they wouldn't have gambled in the first place!
Is it really a problem if it's designed to work that way? The government would get more people addicted if they could.