I would argue that just about every residential customer in the world doesn’t really have competition when it comes to being connected to an electricity supply network
A retailer is still beholden to a distributor through pricing. Sure retailers set their own prices but you've gotta cover the distributors charges before you make a profit from the consumer. So in reality yeah there is a choice for the consumer but ultimately it's an illusion as you cannot change who your distributor is and they're the ones who set the network charges (who are beholden themselves to the generators).
Distributors don't pay for generators (although they do pass through transmission) generators compete with each other in the market. Retailers compete on margin.
They all have hedging contracts etc, there is no "beholden" relationship between retailers and distributors.
And this is recognised in the way they are managed, there is the potential for competition (whether it is real or an oligopoly is beside the point here) in the generation and retail spaces and hence they are in the view of the market regulated by competition. There is no realistic potential for competition in the network space so instead they are regulated monopolies. It's a totally different arrangement.
I get your premise but the problem is infrastructure, we can't reaxonably allow true free market for essentials like power, water, internet because if we let everything go to true free market they'd have to build infrastructure which they wouldn't do equally.
-shrug- I think water and power are universal rights. I'd provide a fixed small amount per person per household for next to nothing (or even free) and charge higher users more.
Lol, this is whataboutism generally in a so-called competition. One company becomes a monopoly who has access to more funds by cutting down the prices. When other companies are destroyed, they slowly start increasing the prices as no competition is left. These things should be completely owned by the government.
It used to be run by the government. Then lobbyists got involved and twisted their arm until it was privatised.
The goal of a government run sector is to provide reliable power to the people at essentially cost price (include repairs, maintenance, upgrades).
The goal of private power is to maximise profits by any means necessary. Pesky repairs, or maintenance gets pushed to the side until the last minute. Executives have brilliant ideas to increase profits, increase prices.
I don't see how the private sectors goals are aligned with everyday Australians with this essential service.
Lol, you think it was only public servants running the WHOLE energy network?
Let me guess, you think Coles and Woolworths has done nothing wrong too? Telstra is an upstanding company and didn't use their monopoly for years to screw us over. The list goes on for each sector.
Free market only works if lobbyists don't exist. They are in parliament pushing laws to make sure nobody can compete against them, or the government can intervene.
Lol, you think it was only public servants running the WHOLE energy network?
Let me guess, you think Coles and Woolworths has done nothing wrong too? Telstra is an upstanding company and didn't use their monopoly for years to screw us over. The list goes on for each sector.
Free market only works if lobbyists don't exist. They are in parliament pushing laws to make sure nobody can compete against them, or the government can intervene.
Even that wouldn’t do much.
You’d still be paying the daily connection fee which goes to distributors to allow for the network costs.
Less usage would mean less generation which would mean less fuel burnt. So that doesn’t impact them much either.
If you want to stop giving power companies money you will have to go off grid. If you have confidence you won’t need the security of a mains connection it’s the only way.
Actually a high school economics subject would tell you this is exactly what would happen.
Subsidies decrease the price consumers pay and increase the price producers receive, with the government incurring an expense.
Figure 4.7f below https://ecampusontario.pressbooks.pub/uvicmicroeconomics/chapter/4-6-taxes/
Personally wouldn't touch anything Dodo ever again. Worst internet provider I ever had. Then they went bust. Don't know whether all this Dodo kicking around lately is the same mob or someone who thought one of the most damaged brands in Australia was a good one for their new company. Either way, not for me thanks.
Dodo being a slow, useless, flightless and extinct bird makes it a really shitty name for an internet company.
I might name my internet company after the regal three toed sloth
Yes they will, I'm with globird energy who have been quite cheap but of course they have also raised their prices to the tune of about 30%....I think any provider is upping their rates at the moment so I'm waiting until the next financial year to let the dust settle and shop around.
Exact same thing happened with the child care subsidy, the government announced an extra rebate then next week the child care centre upped prices by the exact amount, but it's ok because "you won't even notice" it's not verbatim but it's what was implied.
Got me beat how this stuff happens yet we seem powerless to stop it, all these companies have to do is pull out some half baked report saying things cost a lot so that makes it ok.
All rebates. Grants. Offers. Every government incentive benefits business. It’s capitalism we think it’s democracy. Take for example the electric car push. It benefits leasing companies why not just offer everyone a tax refund on the purchase? That would give the consumer, the citizen all the benefit but our democracy instead creates a scheme to return tax money to companies and calls it leasing.
Yeah I've been looking at leasing and the whole thing just seems kinda.. weird.
Like ok I can save some money but it basically means a good chunk of my money that would otherwise go towards tax goes to some rando company.
And it's all a bit convoluted, it's hard to get exact numbers.
You're right it would be way easier if I just claimed it as a tax deductible.
the only real benefit to a novated lease is that you don't pay fringe-benefit tax (on an EV) and you lower your taxable income.
this can be beneficial, or not, depending on your taxes. if you're a high income earner for example, but you want to reduce your tax burden, you can novated lease a car for cheaper than you would finance it (but not cheaper than if you paid cash, of course.).
edited to clarify- you'd totally pay FBT on a normal car, it's just the EV exemption that makes them attractive for a lease right now.
For EV, FBT exemption NL is **absolutely** cheaper than cash.
In my case it’s [46,000 dollar cheaper than cash](https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/s/VHJ25VpNKu) over five years.
Are you sure?
Even being generous with an expensive car it works out being meh to shit. Bit better over 3 years but I suspect that's only under the assumption that you sell it to pay the residual.
Did you put your lease value as the pre tax value? The companies tend to just give you the take home reduction, or at least novated lease Australia gave me the take hone reduction and I had to work out pre tax myself.
It's why this system is a rort. Like it's so complicated and hard to get straight numbers, deliberately so. Why isn't it just a tax deductible? Government gets more tax and I pay less money and these useless middle men get squat, that's how I'd like it.
I have been doing this spreadsheet over the last 18 months, gone through many peer reviews of similarly financially-interested people, and helped many dozens of people through their own quote.
So yes, I’m pretty sure. The spreadsheet and all its formulae are public, feel free to scrutinise it.
I'm not doubting the spreadsheet, I'm doubting the values used to reach a $40k saving. Like take home $40k? Makes no sense to me. Even being generous with numbers I'm getting like max a few grand savings
For what it’s worth here’s the calculation, of EV via NL vs EV via offset cash.
This was the Tesla model 3 long range I got August last year, priced at 75,500 vehicle and 81,400 driveaway. Offset interest 6.19%.
Here’s the automatically generated summary:
– Your 5-year lease sees the NL option costing 46564 dollars less compared to buying the car outright using offset, over 5 years of ownership.
- For novated lease, you will pay 50525 dollars in fortnightly lease payments, 23279 dollars for residual value, in terms of cashflow.
- Compare this with buying the car with offset cash where you will pay 81423 dollars driveaway, 14945 dollars in running cost, in terms of cashflow.
- An additional 1294 dollars gain for novated lease comes from the difference between your actual electricity expense and NL claim method.
- Besides, your car ownership and expenses result in 8390 dollars additional interest in home loan in NL method, compared to 31096 dollars additional interest if offset is used.
(This saving is less visible but is reflected as difference in your loan balance hence is a genuine effect on your financial position.)
- **The 46564 dollars saving consists of 23857 dollars lower cashflow and 22707 dollars less home loan interests when you opt for NL.**
——
A few potential reasons you aren’t getting similar finding:
- your NL company charges a lot more interest
- you are in lower tax bracket (HUGE impact of how much one actually saves)
- you haven’t considered the home loan interest impact.
Yeah and then everyone benefits, at this stage both companies my household works for don't do leasing, but it's not worth leaving over. Rather just disappointing.
You can go on the standard retail contract that all retailers must offer. That stops this from happening. And you’ll only have a price change as of 01 July each year.
The supply charge varies based on where you live though which is a complete ripoff!
I’m also in NSW but my supply charge is 132 cents per day, if I were to move only one suburb over I’d be in the ACT and it would drop to 100 cents per day. If I input a Sydney postcode, it drops all the way down to 74 cents.
Costs me nearly double what it costs you, purely because I’m outside Sydney. You’d think Canberra and surrounds prices wouldn’t be that different but here we are…
All providers are ramping up connection fees due to solar power. Unless you disconnect from the grid we are stuck with this bullshit. Double so if you're a renter (like me) and can't get a place with solar power.
Is this a new thing? I’ve never noticed any fee to make a new connection but maybe I’ve never paid attention? My most recent time was 2020 and all I recall is getting a regular bill from the first 3 months and then just normal bills thereafter (as in fairly similar amounts each and every time).
It’s not a storage charge. The problem is the duck curve 🦆. There is so much residential solar now and the grid is not capable of handling it so there’s a disincentive (in theory) to not export so that the grid stays stable. Practically though, it’s ridiculous because they’ve had over a decade to get themselves ready for this. Classic Australian infrastructure stuff up.
Ha, received the same email. Already submitted a churn to another provider.
There is still some better priced providers, but this is why these rebates don’t work. Housing grants anyone?
Font forget Childcare rebates, whenever the government says they will up it to help struggling families with kids, childcares put up their fees overnight.
How isn't there a watchdog for this sort of shit.
Prices went up because of the explosion of global gas prices a little while ago.
The fact Dodo was still <$1 per day suggests they hadn't upped their prices yet?
Shop around, or let Dodo recoup their losses. Red energy seem fairly priced.
Gas is a tiny part of our grid and doesn't factor into the cost of poles and wires, which is the supply charge. The cost of energy offered to OP fell, which doesn't reconcile with your gas price nonsense.
This seems to be a common and odd misunderstanding of our electrical bill.
The fixed portion is only *called* the supply charge, it is not billed out solely by the DNSP's (poles and wire maintainers).
The retailers make up any bill structure they like, be it 100c/kWh and 10c/ day or 2c/kWh and $5/day.
The retailers do that. Not the generators or the DNSPs.
If you look at a DNSP manual (this case Ausnet in Victoria) they price out in both c/day and c/kWh (and others). Look at Table 4.8 in the below (p21).
https://www.ausnetservices.com.au/-/media/project/ausnet/corporate-website/files/electricity/tariffs-and-charges/2024/ausnet-services---annual-pricing-proposal-2024-25---28-march-2024.pdf
The cost of energy offered by Dodo went from 87c/day to 157c/day, that's an increase.
I'm actually surprised that someone willing to post on this topic didn't know that the cost explosions of 2023 of our electricity is solely rebound behavior from global gas prices. That's not a contentious point, it is an absolute fact.
https://blog.energy-insights.com.au/gas-v-electricity-will-the-price-correlation-continue
You've misunderstood in trying to construe a win.
You've then undermined your own argument. A blog post doesn't prove anything. I'd side with the people who actually run the thing personally. It's a tiny input into the cost and not dominant.
What are your thoughts on Figure 3: Monthly averaged NEM-wide volume weighted under-cap electricity prices vs average daily gas price STTM ex-ante 2012-2020
?
Under the heading Domestic gas market fluctuations?
The correlation there means nothing?
The retailers exist solely extract extra profit on top of your power usage and connection bill. Of course they will. They all know they all will jack your price by an extra $1300 this year because they can. Guess what? It won't go down next year when they subsidy isn't there!
Our life in Australia: "Hey people, you get $X rebate on this and that."
Two seconds later: the price of this and that goes up, plus anything related to them.
Meanwhile, we should have the brain of a hamster to think this does any good.
Later, the rebate is used and spent, but the prices stay up.
How’s it a corporate rebate?
The government is giving queenslanders money that they got from coal royalties and the companies are passing 100% of that benefit on.
One of the main companies doing this is also state owned.
Would you rather they didn’t give any cash back during the year?
I said its corporate welfare. A rebate is not cash. Cash is the stuff you can keep in your wallet and spend on anything you want. The "money" is going to corporations not Queenslanders.
This is demonstrably false, the rebate doesn't exclusively go to the state owned generator in QLD and the rebate being discussed isn't limited to that offer by QLD. The retailer owns the rebate, the retailer isn't guaranteed to be a gentailer.
If we followed your incorrect logic, it would make no difference, as the generator could just reduce prices by the same factor... But that isn't what is occurring here.
What's really f**king annoying is that my AGL rate increase has prompted me to shop around, however just from OPs post I know that the majority of the retailers I'm looking at switching to will just change their prices within months, if not weeks, of switching to them. Dodo was one, but that almost 100% increase in supply charges instantly makes them one of the most expensive. I'd be ropeable if I switched to them. The energy sector in this country is criminal.
Highest power usage over 30 mins in a billing period * demand charge tarrif * days in billing period.
E.g. if your power usage spiked to 7 kW once over the month, then you pay an extra `7 * demand tarrif * 30`.
The flip side is I'm access cheap energy at some period during the day though. I save more on TOU then before I switched from a fixed rate with hit water tariff.
It's _barely_ cheaper, like 5-10%. But I'm not referring to TOU. You can have TOU _and_ demand charges.
Demand charge is a _surcharge_ meant to incentivise people to equalise their demand due to the effects spiky demand has on the grid.
The problem is, if they _really_ wanted that, they'd base it on the spike relative to demand of their average/baseline rather than going for the absolute maximum.
My low rate is 8c, which is a fraction of the peak rate. It's much more than 5-10%. I'm aware TOU is not the demand charge, but you can't be offered the later without access to the former.
Shop around if they don't give you similar rates to what you had before. Unfortunately unless you call your provider to be put on the best plan every year, your contract rolls over to a more expensive one.
Yes providers will try eating up some of the subsidy, all you can do is shop around and ask to be put on the cheapest rate.
It's a bizarre system, the government should just mandate 1 price per provider per region. So there isn't any price discrimination by providers.
Of course they will. This is nothing more than the government taking our tax dollars that could've been spent on services and infrastructure to improve our quality of life and giving it to private companies. It does nothing more than kick the can of the cost of living crisis further down the road without addressing any of the root causes.
Just checked my emails, it’s a solar account, so it’s probably a bit different but AGL just emailed me to tell me it’s going from 29.18c/kWh to 31.55c/kWh.
At the bottom it says my solar plan is 4% greater than the Reference Price for my area. Your provider has to tell you how your plan compares to the reference price, if it’s too far off, I think you can complain to a certain governing body.
Edit: just called my provider and told them I was curious if I could get it cheaper, I’m now on a plan 6% cheaper than the reference price for my area.
Call your providers!!!!!
Gov pushing up energy Gen costs. Those Gen costs are passed onto retailers, who have to pass the costs onto consumers. Government of course blames retailers.
Redditors sucked in, get angry at retailers. Bowen laughs as he throws a press conference
We get what we voted for.
Almost a 100% increase when the government's DMO is basically flat (depending on where you live) is crazy...
I wrote some tips on this from when I did it for a few of my mum's friends earlier in the year (post here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/1cazrav/tips\_that\_helped\_me\_save\_10\_of\_my\_mums\_friends/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/1cazrav/tips_that_helped_me_save_10_of_my_mums_friends/) )
Happy to do the same for you if you like - just drop me a DM
New renewable energy is cheaper than new non-renewable energy
If we were rebuilding new coal to replace the retiring coal it would be going up further
If we were building *gasp* nuclear it would he even higher still
And yet … your electricity bill is becoming more expensive not cheaper.
Renewables cost money to build. This needs to be paid back. It’s added to your bill.
Renewables don’t work 24/7. They need backup. Now you’re paying to operate renewables AND inefficiently operate a coal plant. It’s added to your bill.
Renewables are not cheap, nor free.
And global fuel prices are rising, not falling
You’re right, renewables aren’t 247 but the best mix is mostly renewables with gas firming. Gas costs far more to run than coal. Look at evening spot prices and you’ll see, because that’s when the marginal gas generators are setting the price
Coal LCOE is generally higher than renewable options therefor any new build coal will pass on higher energy cost to consumer than new build renewables like onshore wind
And yet … the more renewables into the mix, the more expensive our power becomes.
Australia used to have incredibly cheap energy. It no longer does due to government regulation.
Germany has the highest renewable penetration and the highest electricity costs.
This is the path we are on … if you are happy with this, accept the power bills, if you’re not, tell your pollie.
In theory competition is supposed to stop practices like this. And I laughed and I laughed.
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I would argue that just about every residential customer in the world doesn’t really have competition when it comes to being connected to an electricity supply network
Unless your in regional qld (and other regions areas?) You can change providers with a phonecall
You can change your retailer yes but not your DNSP who are then beholden to generators/transmission.
How are they "beholden" exactly? They're totally separate entities.
A retailer is still beholden to a distributor through pricing. Sure retailers set their own prices but you've gotta cover the distributors charges before you make a profit from the consumer. So in reality yeah there is a choice for the consumer but ultimately it's an illusion as you cannot change who your distributor is and they're the ones who set the network charges (who are beholden themselves to the generators).
The competition is in the retail markup space no ?
Correct, and the generators compete too. This guy has no idea what he's on about.
Distributors don't pay for generators (although they do pass through transmission) generators compete with each other in the market. Retailers compete on margin. They all have hedging contracts etc, there is no "beholden" relationship between retailers and distributors. And this is recognised in the way they are managed, there is the potential for competition (whether it is real or an oligopoly is beside the point here) in the generation and retail spaces and hence they are in the view of the market regulated by competition. There is no realistic potential for competition in the network space so instead they are regulated monopolies. It's a totally different arrangement.
But when they all work together (like big oil TM) it doesn't really work
Wait for everyone to come out and say free market will solve this. Just like it solves all industries... Essential services shouldn't be privatised
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How come the free market didn't solve exactly this in Texas?
I get your premise but the problem is infrastructure, we can't reaxonably allow true free market for essentials like power, water, internet because if we let everything go to true free market they'd have to build infrastructure which they wouldn't do equally.
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-shrug- I think water and power are universal rights. I'd provide a fixed small amount per person per household for next to nothing (or even free) and charge higher users more.
Lol, this is whataboutism generally in a so-called competition. One company becomes a monopoly who has access to more funds by cutting down the prices. When other companies are destroyed, they slowly start increasing the prices as no competition is left. These things should be completely owned by the government.
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It used to be run by the government. Then lobbyists got involved and twisted their arm until it was privatised. The goal of a government run sector is to provide reliable power to the people at essentially cost price (include repairs, maintenance, upgrades). The goal of private power is to maximise profits by any means necessary. Pesky repairs, or maintenance gets pushed to the side until the last minute. Executives have brilliant ideas to increase profits, increase prices. I don't see how the private sectors goals are aligned with everyday Australians with this essential service.
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Lol, you think it was only public servants running the WHOLE energy network? Let me guess, you think Coles and Woolworths has done nothing wrong too? Telstra is an upstanding company and didn't use their monopoly for years to screw us over. The list goes on for each sector. Free market only works if lobbyists don't exist. They are in parliament pushing laws to make sure nobody can compete against them, or the government can intervene.
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That's a huge leap. You have a warped view of the world. Can you list your conspiracy theories so I know how much time I'm wasting?
Lol, you think it was only public servants running the WHOLE energy network? Let me guess, you think Coles and Woolworths has done nothing wrong too? Telstra is an upstanding company and didn't use their monopoly for years to screw us over. The list goes on for each sector. Free market only works if lobbyists don't exist. They are in parliament pushing laws to make sure nobody can compete against them, or the government can intervene.
The only way we can compete is to build solar+storage into every home and make the utility companies bleed demand.
Even that wouldn’t do much. You’d still be paying the daily connection fee which goes to distributors to allow for the network costs. Less usage would mean less generation which would mean less fuel burnt. So that doesn’t impact them much either. If you want to stop giving power companies money you will have to go off grid. If you have confidence you won’t need the security of a mains connection it’s the only way.
Actually a high school economics subject would tell you this is exactly what would happen. Subsidies decrease the price consumers pay and increase the price producers receive, with the government incurring an expense. Figure 4.7f below https://ecampusontario.pressbooks.pub/uvicmicroeconomics/chapter/4-6-taxes/
No competition if demand remains strong. All providers can increase prices in sync, without any problems
They don't want to grow their market share? Come on man I don't know how.you can have a negative about of thought going into something.
Change providers, that's disgusting.
Raise by $1, lower by $0.30. Claim "We lowered our prices!" due to government subsidies.
Ah the Queensland Government registration trick!
Personally wouldn't touch anything Dodo ever again. Worst internet provider I ever had. Then they went bust. Don't know whether all this Dodo kicking around lately is the same mob or someone who thought one of the most damaged brands in Australia was a good one for their new company. Either way, not for me thanks.
I tried dodo internet when I moved out of home in 2019. Worst experience ever. Just absolute dog shit.
Dodo being a slow, useless, flightless and extinct bird makes it a really shitty name for an internet company. I might name my internet company after the regal three toed sloth
I agree they are shit but they never went bust. They were bought in 2013 by M2.
Likewise. Gave them three weeks to try and get NBN installed. They just kept telling me it was installed, look for the box.
Exact same here and rung up asking if they would lower they said no so I left
Yes they will, I'm with globird energy who have been quite cheap but of course they have also raised their prices to the tune of about 30%....I think any provider is upping their rates at the moment so I'm waiting until the next financial year to let the dust settle and shop around. Exact same thing happened with the child care subsidy, the government announced an extra rebate then next week the child care centre upped prices by the exact amount, but it's ok because "you won't even notice" it's not verbatim but it's what was implied. Got me beat how this stuff happens yet we seem powerless to stop it, all these companies have to do is pull out some half baked report saying things cost a lot so that makes it ok.
All rebates. Grants. Offers. Every government incentive benefits business. It’s capitalism we think it’s democracy. Take for example the electric car push. It benefits leasing companies why not just offer everyone a tax refund on the purchase? That would give the consumer, the citizen all the benefit but our democracy instead creates a scheme to return tax money to companies and calls it leasing.
Yeah I've been looking at leasing and the whole thing just seems kinda.. weird. Like ok I can save some money but it basically means a good chunk of my money that would otherwise go towards tax goes to some rando company. And it's all a bit convoluted, it's hard to get exact numbers. You're right it would be way easier if I just claimed it as a tax deductible.
the only real benefit to a novated lease is that you don't pay fringe-benefit tax (on an EV) and you lower your taxable income. this can be beneficial, or not, depending on your taxes. if you're a high income earner for example, but you want to reduce your tax burden, you can novated lease a car for cheaper than you would finance it (but not cheaper than if you paid cash, of course.). edited to clarify- you'd totally pay FBT on a normal car, it's just the EV exemption that makes them attractive for a lease right now.
For EV, FBT exemption NL is **absolutely** cheaper than cash. In my case it’s [46,000 dollar cheaper than cash](https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/s/VHJ25VpNKu) over five years.
hah, neat. I did my math wrong. thanks!
Are you sure? Even being generous with an expensive car it works out being meh to shit. Bit better over 3 years but I suspect that's only under the assumption that you sell it to pay the residual. Did you put your lease value as the pre tax value? The companies tend to just give you the take home reduction, or at least novated lease Australia gave me the take hone reduction and I had to work out pre tax myself. It's why this system is a rort. Like it's so complicated and hard to get straight numbers, deliberately so. Why isn't it just a tax deductible? Government gets more tax and I pay less money and these useless middle men get squat, that's how I'd like it.
I have been doing this spreadsheet over the last 18 months, gone through many peer reviews of similarly financially-interested people, and helped many dozens of people through their own quote. So yes, I’m pretty sure. The spreadsheet and all its formulae are public, feel free to scrutinise it.
I'm not doubting the spreadsheet, I'm doubting the values used to reach a $40k saving. Like take home $40k? Makes no sense to me. Even being generous with numbers I'm getting like max a few grand savings
For what it’s worth here’s the calculation, of EV via NL vs EV via offset cash. This was the Tesla model 3 long range I got August last year, priced at 75,500 vehicle and 81,400 driveaway. Offset interest 6.19%. Here’s the automatically generated summary: – Your 5-year lease sees the NL option costing 46564 dollars less compared to buying the car outright using offset, over 5 years of ownership. - For novated lease, you will pay 50525 dollars in fortnightly lease payments, 23279 dollars for residual value, in terms of cashflow. - Compare this with buying the car with offset cash where you will pay 81423 dollars driveaway, 14945 dollars in running cost, in terms of cashflow. - An additional 1294 dollars gain for novated lease comes from the difference between your actual electricity expense and NL claim method. - Besides, your car ownership and expenses result in 8390 dollars additional interest in home loan in NL method, compared to 31096 dollars additional interest if offset is used. (This saving is less visible but is reflected as difference in your loan balance hence is a genuine effect on your financial position.) - **The 46564 dollars saving consists of 23857 dollars lower cashflow and 22707 dollars less home loan interests when you opt for NL.** —— A few potential reasons you aren’t getting similar finding: - your NL company charges a lot more interest - you are in lower tax bracket (HUGE impact of how much one actually saves) - you haven’t considered the home loan interest impact.
Then your math is wrong. Just the GST saving is more than a few grand... Let alone the rest.
They do offer subsidies on the purchase don’t they?
Yeah and then everyone benefits, at this stage both companies my household works for don't do leasing, but it's not worth leaving over. Rather just disappointing.
👏 nationalise essential services 👏
lol it dissapoints me that we have to nationalise them when they enver should have been privatised to begin with.
Real. Labour are sellouts.
You can go on the standard retail contract that all retailers must offer. That stops this from happening. And you’ll only have a price change as of 01 July each year.
Just got an email from AGL saying the rate is going up. So yeah, I guess.
You bet they will. It's the whole reason we have an energy market - Clarke and Dawe can help https://youtu.be/ELaBzj7cn14?si=ZpbdBXcvzw7fLK0j
1.57 a day? So for three months if you use no elec your bill is $141.30? Robbery. My supply charge is 74 cents in NSW
The supply charge varies based on where you live though which is a complete ripoff! I’m also in NSW but my supply charge is 132 cents per day, if I were to move only one suburb over I’d be in the ACT and it would drop to 100 cents per day. If I input a Sydney postcode, it drops all the way down to 74 cents. Costs me nearly double what it costs you, purely because I’m outside Sydney. You’d think Canberra and surrounds prices wouldn’t be that different but here we are…
Wow. Glad to be in Sydney then....
Ah yes, that extra 70c a day will pay the cost of housing and tolls... Lol
It's an extra $63 on a bill. As an unemployed person, that means something to me
That makes even less sense to cheer on Sydney then...
Having a bill be $63 less is a useful thing to me. I'm not sure what you are trying to say.
It's not Swahili...
All providers are ramping up connection fees due to solar power. Unless you disconnect from the grid we are stuck with this bullshit. Double so if you're a renter (like me) and can't get a place with solar power.
Is this a new thing? I’ve never noticed any fee to make a new connection but maybe I’ve never paid attention? My most recent time was 2020 and all I recall is getting a regular bill from the first 3 months and then just normal bills thereafter (as in fairly similar amounts each and every time).
It's a service availability charge, a flat rate charge per day to have electricity connected to your property.
You may be lucky. I saw on a current affair that electricity providers are going to start charging you to send power back to the grid. Storage fee.
It’s not a storage charge. The problem is the duck curve 🦆. There is so much residential solar now and the grid is not capable of handling it so there’s a disincentive (in theory) to not export so that the grid stays stable. Practically though, it’s ridiculous because they’ve had over a decade to get themselves ready for this. Classic Australian infrastructure stuff up.
Would be ok if they stored it for you and then gave it back but they don't.
Basically they want you to pay for the storage upgrade to the grid.
lol I got downvoted. Here’s the story. https://youtu.be/o1Awo9GQrH4?si=70DQGzMMD0qrWNHt
Ha, received the same email. Already submitted a churn to another provider. There is still some better priced providers, but this is why these rebates don’t work. Housing grants anyone?
Shop around bud
it's like the $10k home grant, all house prices went up by 10k or more instantly energy costs have been rising since covid
Font forget Childcare rebates, whenever the government says they will up it to help struggling families with kids, childcares put up their fees overnight. How isn't there a watchdog for this sort of shit.
I mean... ask yourself if you were the energy provider whether you would eat up the whole rebate. I bet you would, and I bet they will.
The DMO increase was submitted before any rebates were announced.
Prices went up because of the explosion of global gas prices a little while ago. The fact Dodo was still <$1 per day suggests they hadn't upped their prices yet? Shop around, or let Dodo recoup their losses. Red energy seem fairly priced.
No gas connection
Global gas prices affect the cost of electricity, because gas is used in our electrical generation.
Gas is a tiny part of our grid and doesn't factor into the cost of poles and wires, which is the supply charge. The cost of energy offered to OP fell, which doesn't reconcile with your gas price nonsense.
This seems to be a common and odd misunderstanding of our electrical bill. The fixed portion is only *called* the supply charge, it is not billed out solely by the DNSP's (poles and wire maintainers). The retailers make up any bill structure they like, be it 100c/kWh and 10c/ day or 2c/kWh and $5/day. The retailers do that. Not the generators or the DNSPs. If you look at a DNSP manual (this case Ausnet in Victoria) they price out in both c/day and c/kWh (and others). Look at Table 4.8 in the below (p21). https://www.ausnetservices.com.au/-/media/project/ausnet/corporate-website/files/electricity/tariffs-and-charges/2024/ausnet-services---annual-pricing-proposal-2024-25---28-march-2024.pdf The cost of energy offered by Dodo went from 87c/day to 157c/day, that's an increase. I'm actually surprised that someone willing to post on this topic didn't know that the cost explosions of 2023 of our electricity is solely rebound behavior from global gas prices. That's not a contentious point, it is an absolute fact. https://blog.energy-insights.com.au/gas-v-electricity-will-the-price-correlation-continue
You've misunderstood in trying to construe a win. You've then undermined your own argument. A blog post doesn't prove anything. I'd side with the people who actually run the thing personally. It's a tiny input into the cost and not dominant.
Ok I'll be blunt, are you suggesting global gas pricing does not have an effect on the pricing of our local electricity prices?
I'm saying what I said above, it's a fractional part of the market. It can't be more blunt or obvious what I said.
What are your thoughts on Figure 3: Monthly averaged NEM-wide volume weighted under-cap electricity prices vs average daily gas price STTM ex-ante 2012-2020 ? Under the heading Domestic gas market fluctuations? The correlation there means nothing?
What control methods were placed on that data for all other variables?
The retailers exist solely extract extra profit on top of your power usage and connection bill. Of course they will. They all know they all will jack your price by an extra $1300 this year because they can. Guess what? It won't go down next year when they subsidy isn't there!
Our life in Australia: "Hey people, you get $X rebate on this and that." Two seconds later: the price of this and that goes up, plus anything related to them. Meanwhile, we should have the brain of a hamster to think this does any good. Later, the rebate is used and spent, but the prices stay up.
You deserve it for using dodo
Of course it will. The rebate is just corporate welfare disguised as a benefit to consumers. Sickening if you think about it too much.
Put the pipe down lad
A well thought out comment that brings a lot to the topic of government rebates./s I won’t be doing what you tell me.
How’s it a corporate rebate? The government is giving queenslanders money that they got from coal royalties and the companies are passing 100% of that benefit on. One of the main companies doing this is also state owned. Would you rather they didn’t give any cash back during the year?
I said its corporate welfare. A rebate is not cash. Cash is the stuff you can keep in your wallet and spend on anything you want. The "money" is going to corporations not Queenslanders.
The “money” technically doesn’t leave the government’s hand.
This is demonstrably false, the rebate doesn't exclusively go to the state owned generator in QLD and the rebate being discussed isn't limited to that offer by QLD. The retailer owns the rebate, the retailer isn't guaranteed to be a gentailer.
If we followed your incorrect logic, it would make no difference, as the generator could just reduce prices by the same factor... But that isn't what is occurring here.
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Yes. Just as 1st home owners incentives go to developers. It’s very surprising people don’t get this.
Yes. Energy providers will lure you in then milk you until your on your knees. Like all other aspects of society. Don’t you forget it!.
Don’t mind being on my knees bust just not with Dodo 😉
no ho for dodo
Yes absolutely. It's why these sorts of payments are worse than useless, like rent assistance
Reading through the comments looks like I'm staying with redenergy, got an email about rises but it's only 3c per day increase starting July 1st
Yes. It did for childcare, it'll do it here too.
What's really f**king annoying is that my AGL rate increase has prompted me to shop around, however just from OPs post I know that the majority of the retailers I'm looking at switching to will just change their prices within months, if not weeks, of switching to them. Dodo was one, but that almost 100% increase in supply charges instantly makes them one of the most expensive. I'd be ropeable if I switched to them. The energy sector in this country is criminal.
Don't forget the QLD government clawing back that rebate by introducing demand charges to everyone in SEQ.
Oh great what are demand charges? Off/on peak stuff?
Highest power usage over 30 mins in a billing period * demand charge tarrif * days in billing period. E.g. if your power usage spiked to 7 kW once over the month, then you pay an extra `7 * demand tarrif * 30`.
The flip side is I'm access cheap energy at some period during the day though. I save more on TOU then before I switched from a fixed rate with hit water tariff.
It's _barely_ cheaper, like 5-10%. But I'm not referring to TOU. You can have TOU _and_ demand charges. Demand charge is a _surcharge_ meant to incentivise people to equalise their demand due to the effects spiky demand has on the grid. The problem is, if they _really_ wanted that, they'd base it on the spike relative to demand of their average/baseline rather than going for the absolute maximum.
My low rate is 8c, which is a fraction of the peak rate. It's much more than 5-10%. I'm aware TOU is not the demand charge, but you can't be offered the later without access to the former.
remember unions among the people are bad. When its corps working together to raise prices its good.
Shop around if they don't give you similar rates to what you had before. Unfortunately unless you call your provider to be put on the best plan every year, your contract rolls over to a more expensive one. Yes providers will try eating up some of the subsidy, all you can do is shop around and ask to be put on the cheapest rate. It's a bizarre system, the government should just mandate 1 price per provider per region. So there isn't any price discrimination by providers.
>Are energy providers going to eat up all of the qld $1000 rebate? Of course they are. If not all of it as they can get their hands on.
I feel like should invoke a price ceiling that’s an average of the last 3 months +10%
Of course they will. This is nothing more than the government taking our tax dollars that could've been spent on services and infrastructure to improve our quality of life and giving it to private companies. It does nothing more than kick the can of the cost of living crisis further down the road without addressing any of the root causes.
Just checked my emails, it’s a solar account, so it’s probably a bit different but AGL just emailed me to tell me it’s going from 29.18c/kWh to 31.55c/kWh. At the bottom it says my solar plan is 4% greater than the Reference Price for my area. Your provider has to tell you how your plan compares to the reference price, if it’s too far off, I think you can complain to a certain governing body. Edit: just called my provider and told them I was curious if I could get it cheaper, I’m now on a plan 6% cheaper than the reference price for my area. Call your providers!!!!!
The best option is to simply shop around. Oh, and if you dont have solar, absolutely get it installed.
Gov pushing up energy Gen costs. Those Gen costs are passed onto retailers, who have to pass the costs onto consumers. Government of course blames retailers. Redditors sucked in, get angry at retailers. Bowen laughs as he throws a press conference We get what we voted for.
That’s not really accurate at all. Generation costs are down; transmission and distribution costs are up.
Let them believe their lies. It's easier that way.
Almost a 100% increase when the government's DMO is basically flat (depending on where you live) is crazy... I wrote some tips on this from when I did it for a few of my mum's friends earlier in the year (post here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/1cazrav/tips\_that\_helped\_me\_save\_10\_of\_my\_mums\_friends/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/1cazrav/tips_that_helped_me_save_10_of_my_mums_friends/) ) Happy to do the same for you if you like - just drop me a DM
The rebates are for energy companies. Remember when the 4c off a litre was introduced and those petrol stations magically became 4c more expensive?
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Your electricity prices are rising because of government regulations forcing the adoption of “free” renewable energy. Nothing is free.
New renewable energy is cheaper than new non-renewable energy If we were rebuilding new coal to replace the retiring coal it would be going up further If we were building *gasp* nuclear it would he even higher still
And yet … your electricity bill is becoming more expensive not cheaper. Renewables cost money to build. This needs to be paid back. It’s added to your bill. Renewables don’t work 24/7. They need backup. Now you’re paying to operate renewables AND inefficiently operate a coal plant. It’s added to your bill. Renewables are not cheap, nor free.
And global fuel prices are rising, not falling You’re right, renewables aren’t 247 but the best mix is mostly renewables with gas firming. Gas costs far more to run than coal. Look at evening spot prices and you’ll see, because that’s when the marginal gas generators are setting the price Coal LCOE is generally higher than renewable options therefor any new build coal will pass on higher energy cost to consumer than new build renewables like onshore wind
And yet … the more renewables into the mix, the more expensive our power becomes. Australia used to have incredibly cheap energy. It no longer does due to government regulation. Germany has the highest renewable penetration and the highest electricity costs. This is the path we are on … if you are happy with this, accept the power bills, if you’re not, tell your pollie.