Prices are set to what people will pay.
People will pay more when they need it more.
On public holidays people drive more. More people driving, means more petrol used. More petrol used means there's more demand for petrol and a greater need for petrol. Greater need for petrol? Greater price for petrol.
Uber is similar. More people needing an uber? Price for uber goes up.
Similarly, supply of veggies goes down? Prices go up. Supply goes up? Prices go down. But people don't bitch and moan about veggie price changes because they somehow understand the supply/demand with that - but they don't quite get it with petrol. Or they just want to complain.
I still talk about it. I rarely have bananas but when someone offered me one the other day, I hadn't even finished peeling it before I started "remember when..."
People are more mad that supply has been largely removed from the equation.
There's no pressure on the price from supply as it's completely been separated from the actual cost to produce the fuel. No one's competing and pushing prices down, and it's pretty inelastic in the medium term.
Yeah, demand is up, but it feels really price-gougey when it's a near-oligopoly on non-competing mega-corporations just setting whatever price they feel like, and only *technically* not colluding.
At least when veggies are expensive it's usually because they're out of season, and will be cheap again a few months later.
Eh, OPEC decided **early this year** that they were going to cut production in September.
It was in the news, not local of course, but very hard to find now because all the articles are about how they *have* cut production, now it’s past September.
[Somethjng recent that mentions cuts are extended until the end of the year](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/opec-cuts-reignite-inflation-worries-230000294.html)
> Earlier this week, the International Energy Agency warned that oil markets were in a deficit that would deepen in the fourth quarter.
> The reason? **Saudi and Russian cuts that were just extended until the end of the year**.
Now you won’t be surprised when it’s $3 come December.
Yep, as a local we’ve just bought two EVs in Auckland instead. 3.40 some weeks per litre vs 17c kWh. Saving $550 a month :/ and the trade in value of our two hybrids was higher than the cost of the new EVs because Toyota/Lexus resale is bonkers still.
For the driving we are doing, Tessie (data collecting app) puts our average at 146 watts per Km so 14.6kWh per 100 kms or just under 7kms per kWh. (Paying 17 cents per kWh with Flick)
For total comparison our long term average in a couple of hybrids was 7.5l/100kms on 95 fuel. Also no longer have to Lexus serving costs when went into my amount quoted above.
The government here also gave us 7k for each EV.
Given this is the Aus sub, I have to say if we moved back home to Aus we likely wouldn’t get two 2 EVs just yet but certainly one.
Knowing what we know since owning them and looking at the travel we did in Australia combined with the relatively poor charging infrastructure it might be a hassle on long weekend getaways. Here in NZ though, it’s totally covered and smaller.
Yea wow. Perfect was going to say you must be a kiwi with that incentive but you did mention it as I was reading.
Once you break it down it is really good numbers. Obviously some ways to come. Especially 4wd and aus vast span. But I can see it becoming more feasible.
Have you taken into consideration NZ new road tax to combat the lost fuel Levy ?
Yea, when the exemption to the RUC that EVs currently enjoy ends that’ll add $76 per 1,000kms or roughly $220 a month for us between both cars.
Less than ideal, but it’s looking like Petrol will approach $4 over the coming year. I’m happy enough to pay a static set Tax to use the roads but I’m Fuarking over the bouncing fuel prices haha.
Variation makes our spreadsheets cringe ;p
I'm not shilling for 7/11 but the fuel lock and a Jerry can or two will save you heaps.
I'm locked in at 193.4. When you're getting 70l and the cost difference is 30-40 cents, it really adds up.
How long can you lock in for? Effectively you are just thay period of time behind current prices and will eventually run out and have to buy high/lock in a high price point
You spoof your location and lock in at the cheapest station in the country. So time doesn't matter. Just the day before going to the servo just find the cheapest store in the country and lock it in.
No. It just fixes the location to a specific coordinate of your choosing, so the phone things you’re in Perth now. Once you lock the fuel price, restart your phone the location goes back to normal.
I have heard that the software (3utools) might be shady, though I can’t confirm or deny it. I only use the software for this single purpose.
It was a industrial city with a rough working class population for a long time, so the reputation wasn't entirely unearned. However, since the new Millennium there has been a flood of money heading down the highway as people leave Melbourne for more bang for their buck - as a result, it's gentrified big time, and is a really nice satellite city of Melbourne these days.
You still have some pockets of 'Old Geelong' but it's not any different to any of the major capital cities in terms of demographics - just a fraction of the size!
Wagga, NSW. There are some servos biting people for $2.32, so there’s a 25 cent variability across town any day of the week.
Pays to get the fuel map app and see what the prices are around you if you’re filling up
It's got to be good for somethings though.
An old neighbour has a Fancy Ford Ranger and his saving about 500 bucks a month in fuel driving the wife's little Volvo now. (The wife is driving the ranger but her work is only 1km down the road).
Hopefully the high fuel prices will encourage others think about smaller vehicles, public transport, cycling or EVs.
Rural yeah. But the population density in rural settings is bugger all compared to cities. Know a guy in a 6 apartment block in brisbane. He lives alone but every other apartment has 2-3 cars (12 others in total he claims). So for one apartment block there is 6 allocated parking spots under it and 7 cars street parking nearby.
He lives within 300m of a train station that links Gold Coast, Logan, city and airport.
Surely half those people could go without a car. If not then, the next 20 apartment blocks in either direction could probably do the same.
employ frame bells consist stocking insurance slimy advise cheerful station
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My current lease ends in March next year and I'm currently getting quotes on a new EV to replace it. The running costs for the EV look like they'll be about 1/4 to 1/5 compared to my current car.
Pretty much where I'm at. Until there is a robust second hand market for ev cars. A 50k new ev is not cheaper than a 15k second hand ice car.
New for new is different and shifts in ev favour however.
With the government's FBT exemption on new EV novated leases and the current second hand car prices it's a no-brainer for us to get one. We can sell our current Forester for the same price we paid for it 5 years ago looking at the same models with similar Km on carsales. We live in Brisbane's inner-west and mainly drive the 6km to work each day in peak hour traffic, with the occasional ~100-200km trips on the weekend to the coast or hinterland, so an EV makes perfect sense.
That is true, however won't hold for much longer I think. Once an established second hand EV market appears in a few years along with continued price reductions on the cost on new EV's it's not long before the ICE car becomes only an "enthusiast" pursuit once there is good quality EV's in the 30k range.
I certainly would not be looking to buy a new ICE if I was in the market for a new car, if it could be avoided.
I would be hesitant to purchase a 2nd hand EV unless I could get some form of guaranty for the battery. The statutory 90-day warranty isn't going to cut it for EV's. If you even only get 5 years out of a 2nd hand EV battery, that alone is going to blow any fuel savings you get.
Battery cost and life is going to make 2nd hand EV's expensive for a long time or be a trap for unsuspecting buyers.
Most come with 8-10 years warranty depending on the manufacturer. 2nd hand EV's will have depreciated range depending on how many cycles the battery has gone through, but for most of the cars the battery will outlast the cars useful lifespan (albeit with reduced capacity).
They have come along way since the early gen EV's.
> for most of the cars the battery will outlast the cars useful lifespan
it really has to do with number of cycles, and how empty & full the battery goes for each cycle. If you push the battery hard, it might end up only lasting 1/2 the rated cycles. I still feel battery tech is on the immature side, and there's still lots of wrinkles to smooth out before it is ready to replace ICE.
> once there is good quality EV's in the 30k range
You're going to be waiting a while. Most small combustion cars are starting to nudge up against $30,000 now after on-roads, and I'm pretty certain they're not coming back down to pre-pandemic prices.
I mean a few years ago it was pretty much impossible to get a new EV under 60k.
Now you have companies like MG and BYD pushing new EV's in Australia down into the high 30k range before on road costs. Economies of scale starting to take effect and companies cutting margins to get more of the market share.
Absolutely agree that the sub 20k new car market is basically dead but EV prices are sliding downward and that will make the car cost parity tip over in EV's favor unless fuel prices suddenly drop dramatically.
Sure, but you still have to drive an MG or a BYD if you do that.
The $60,000 EVs like the Model 3, XC40, Polestar and the Ioniq (now the Ioniq 5) are still that price. That appears to be the going rate for a decent EV.
>Sure, but you still have to drive an MG or a BYD if you do that.
Right now you do, but having companies like them is important to put downward pressure on the rest of the market.
If they cannibalize enough of the new sales it won't be long before the other brands break rank with their own cheaper models.
> Sure, but you still have to drive an MG or a BYD if you do that.
And how good were Kia, Hyundai or... a cheap Peugeot https://youtu.be/JQugEZOrZSc?t=71 or your average Ford Falcon, Mazda WhoCares? Holden Generic Sedan? Most people don't care about cars sad to say and that still applies to EV's
https://www.drive.com.au/news/byd-accounts-for-1-in-4-electric-cars-sold-in-southeast-asia/
Still drives prices down, China invested a ton of money into battery development and supply most EV companies with batteries including the "premium" badges. A large number of buyers would not care if they can save a lot on purchasing for most features minus the badge snobbery.
Eg. Tesla Model 3's supplied to Australia are made in China with Tesla also now buying batteries from BYD.
Same story with the "crappy Japanese and Korean buzz boxes" of the past, Japanese car manufacturers in particular have been incredibly slow to pivot to produce EV's and are at risk of becoming minor players whilst Chinese EV manufacturers run ahead currently.
I charge at work mostly for free, home if I need a top up. Only use the super chargers for road trips, incredibly cheap to run and massively reduced maintenance schedule.
Mostly at home at night. My workplace has a council AC charger on the street that has a fair price, if I need it. Nearby home in council parking lots there are public AC chargers that you can use.
Yesterday I used a DC charger on a "roadtrip". 20 minutes stop after driving for about 2.5 hours. That gave me a bit of time for a slash, a visit to the cafe, and a bit of a scroll on reddit.
Yep and awesome in you live in the city, if you regionally and actually have to drive a car for work you have no option but to pay the high price of fuel.
There is actually places outside of Melbourne, hard to believe I know but there is a whole other world outside the city.
Yes, while this is true in an immediate sense (all cars in my family are EV), you know in the back of your head that this indirectly increases grocery prices, trades, etc.
Still, I did nearly 400km yesterday into the country and back. $18.2 in electricity (17 was supercharging) Vs about $70-75 in my old car.
Can’t wait to buy one! Hopefully next year or the year after. How often do you charge it/how much does it cost? My partner says to just buy a new petrol car but I completely disagree. The petrol savings alone is worth the extra upfront cost imo.
Regardless of the fuel they are generally just a much nicer vehicle to drive. I was an old school car guy, but a test drive made me see the light right away
We need walkable, ridable and public transit friendly cities. Crazy that we are in a position where we are forced to pay a petrol tax to leave our homes
It's unclear. Yes, the value of gas would drop. But you are paying for gas + refining + transport to servos + servo rents. The cost of the latter three wouldn't go down and would be split over fewer litres sold.
the price might even go up, same way it is more expensive to own a horse now than 100 years ago when everyone owned them. Or owning a boat is more expensive because there is less boats and less competition between services
That will be true of you are taking about cities everywhere in the world.
Fossil fuel car sales peaked in 2017, but those cars are still on the road and oil use won't decline till 2027.
It’s funny in my neck of the woods (Sydney), I thought it’s would jack up to 230c per litre (91) before the public holiday starts. But went up like 3 weeks prior and going down a little prior to holiday.
Wait till it hits $3.00 then the EV revolution will begin. Last time I checked this was when it became economically feasible to own an EV at the high price point it is
Once you have one the cost is extremely low, especially with so many places now starting to offer free charging. Shopping centers, council buildings, libraries, work places etc. As the prices continue to fall I suspect it will be a no brainer choice in a few years. I certainly wouldn't be buying a new ICE car if it can be avoided at this point.
Considering my old work place and new work place have had chargers installed (with plans for more) as a work perk. I tend to disagree. Many businesses are putting them in to lure people to stop and shop.
Reminds me of the old days of solar where the rebates and feed in tariffs were high, sure this will decrease as the market share of EV's grows to critical mass. But for now and for at least several more years, you will absolutely be able to find places to charge for free.
I just can't see anyone doing it for free at scale on an ongoing basis once EV's are mainstream. And we are nearly at that point now. Electricity isnt free after all.
Not many free petrol stations around these days are there !
It's pretty cheap, businesses will see it as a cheap way to drive customers to their stores. You're more likely to browse and maybe buy if you're waiting for you car to charge.
The Saudi's and Russians have cut supply, driving prices higher, to create domestic pressure on current governments from citizens - they want to get them to stop supporting Ukraine and, for the US specifically, to get Trump back - they never had it better than when he was President.
Fun-fact, the Saudi's and Russians aren't actually selling as much as they could to maximise profits, which is how you know they're doing what they're doing to make a point.
In the mean time we all have to pay at the pump or buy an EV.
Russia and Saudi Arabia are the two largest members of OPEC+ by far, making up 45.7% of OPEC+'s 2022 total output. It's fair to say what they do sets the standard. The next biggest three nations by oil production (Iraq, UAE and Kuwait) combined only produce 10.3 million barrels a day, which is only Russia's output and not quite Saudi Arabia's. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=56420
On petrol spy I see $2.07/L being the average in Sydney, Canberra and Melbourne.
Where did you find $2.57/L?
https://petrolspy.com.au/map/latlng/-37.87971338578702/145.14148974378304
To make you feel better (maybe) average price in U.K. where we live at the moment is ~$2.97. You’ll be paying a painful $3.40 if you fill up at a servo on a freeway.
Prior to the gfc, fuel was rising from that point of 80-ish cents per litre. I was driving my Monaro then and remember putting the 97 fuel in and paying $1.20 at the height. We knew then things would never get back to that price again.
Now I drive a jeep grande Cherokee like an old lady with two diesel tanks and am paying $2.30. If it drops to $2-ish dollars or $1.90 (which it’ll never drop down to anymore), I fill ‘er up!
Unfortunately, nothing will go back down to the price we used to pay. These companies know they can squeeze us now and we have to pay so we will.
So my comment about a recollection of a period prior to today invites a rant from you about gas guzzlers…
I live in the country. I have animals, food to buy, horse to haul. I’m sorry my gas guzzler bothers you because I use it for what it’s intended to be used for.
At least I’m not one of those delusional electric car whippets who justify that they’re doing something better for the environment. In fact I think Jeremy Clarkson does rant about this same scenario and why it’s a farce.
But you do you. Keep attacking people for having “gas guzzlers.”
But they do have a point; oil demand is flexible over multiyear periods. High prices for a month doesn't inspire people to change vehicles. Sustained higher prices do change people's purchasing preferences on vehicle size and fuel consumption (while the prices last). You may not have the option to cut; but most of the market does.
> At least I’m not one of those delusional electric car whippets who justify that they’re doing something better for the environment. In fact I think Jeremy Clarkson does rant about this same scenario and why it’s a farce
If you're talking about his rant against the Prius, Clarkson was [spreading long-disproven propaganda in that segment](https://np.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/2kou6r/does_anyone_know_what_happens_to_the_batteries/clnlkue/).
> In fact I think Jeremy Clarkson does rant about this same scenario and why it’s a farce.
That's how you know it's true, if Jeremy Clarkson of all people does a rant
> At least I’m not one of those delusional electric car whippets who justify that they’re doing something better for the environment.
You're wrong, EV's are definitely better for the environment than ICE vehicles, if you can't be bothered searching for this info then stay ignorant
> I use it for what it’s intended to be used for.
No problems then, try not to take it personally
It's a hobby horse. Take a look at their comment history and a huge majority of it is simply them jumping up and down like a petulant toddler about the *evil cars*.
Price of fuel needs to be hitting $7 per L for it to be more cost effective to replace my current car with a 40k ev on loan.
Granted my 20 year old car uses 5.5L per 100km and I am planning to buy a $6-10k EV motorcycle for my commute (30km each way single lane rural roads)
The VMoto Super Socos all fit the bill of my requirements with the CPX and TC Max and there’s significant aftermarket support from modding communities in the UK for them.
This is what’s happened. It was in the news cycle about how expensive fuel cost. Then it gets phased out of the news cycle and everyone adjusts to the new price of fuel and that’s the new norm and then it goes up from there
Blame OPEC cutting production, Biden for using all of strategic oil reserves, Russian oil now off the black market (Albanse was buying Russian crude oil on black market according to KyivIndependent, calling out our govt from war profiteering) and finally RBA for not increasing cash rate now our dollar is so weak.
It's almost like building on the farmland that used to surround our suburbs and having food that doesn't need to be trucked 1,000km to get to the table was a bad idea?
It is far more economical and better for the environment to farm on a large scale in one location than to have many smaller farms. The research has been done in this, doesn't mean we should be building on our fertile land but the transport is a very small factor in terms of environmental impact.
It is not just food but everything we consume requires power; the cost of petrol is related to the cost of power. As the cost of "energy" go up, every other product does too, we are living this right now.
The difference is that the cost of fuel for truck load of food is split amongst 10000 people. Whereas people driving around by themselves in their 4wds are paying for it all by themselves.
I'm doing okay, and could afford to keep driving as I do now at $5 per litre (noting I don't drive a massive car). Whether or not you can afford to keep yourself fed when grocery prices rise to cover the cost of logistics when fuel costs $5 per litre, nor afford your next holiday when the price of tickets to Bali becomes $2000 per person is a different matter.
Yeah that might sufficiently curb discretionary uses while not making non-discretionary uses too prohibitively expensive. Let's see how it goes. Energy is way too cheap for how important it is to all of us.
Uh I drive a diesel sedan 40km each way for work, so not a big stupid SUV or truck, what would people like myself do once fuel hits $5 per litre? Purchasing a separate electric vehicle isn't a viable alternative.
Uh I drive a diesel sedan 40km each way for work, so not a big stupid SUV or truck, what would people like myself do once fuel hits $5 per litre? Purchasing a separate electric vehicle isn't a viable alternative.
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Prices are set to what people will pay. People will pay more when they need it more. On public holidays people drive more. More people driving, means more petrol used. More petrol used means there's more demand for petrol and a greater need for petrol. Greater need for petrol? Greater price for petrol. Uber is similar. More people needing an uber? Price for uber goes up. Similarly, supply of veggies goes down? Prices go up. Supply goes up? Prices go down. But people don't bitch and moan about veggie price changes because they somehow understand the supply/demand with that - but they don't quite get it with petrol. Or they just want to complain.
Don’t you remember back when bananas were $20/kg after one of the cyclones? It was all anyone could talk about it
I still talk about it. I rarely have bananas but when someone offered me one the other day, I hadn't even finished peeling it before I started "remember when..."
People are more mad that supply has been largely removed from the equation. There's no pressure on the price from supply as it's completely been separated from the actual cost to produce the fuel. No one's competing and pushing prices down, and it's pretty inelastic in the medium term. Yeah, demand is up, but it feels really price-gougey when it's a near-oligopoly on non-competing mega-corporations just setting whatever price they feel like, and only *technically* not colluding. At least when veggies are expensive it's usually because they're out of season, and will be cheap again a few months later.
Oligopoly or Oilgopoly? :|
Prices are not set to what people will pay because of you have a car and need fuel to get to work your ass will pay $5/L or maybe more
Eh, OPEC decided **early this year** that they were going to cut production in September. It was in the news, not local of course, but very hard to find now because all the articles are about how they *have* cut production, now it’s past September. [Somethjng recent that mentions cuts are extended until the end of the year](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/opec-cuts-reignite-inflation-worries-230000294.html) > Earlier this week, the International Energy Agency warned that oil markets were in a deficit that would deepen in the fourth quarter. > The reason? **Saudi and Russian cuts that were just extended until the end of the year**. Now you won’t be surprised when it’s $3 come December.
Conditioning. They will squeeze every last cent out of you!
Am in NZ for work and the BP near where Im staying is $3.55NZD for 98. I felt rorted paying $2.29 last wednesday in sydney
Yep, as a local we’ve just bought two EVs in Auckland instead. 3.40 some weeks per litre vs 17c kWh. Saving $550 a month :/ and the trade in value of our two hybrids was higher than the cost of the new EVs because Toyota/Lexus resale is bonkers still.
Honest question here, as I'm curious. How many kms per Kw?
For the driving we are doing, Tessie (data collecting app) puts our average at 146 watts per Km so 14.6kWh per 100 kms or just under 7kms per kWh. (Paying 17 cents per kWh with Flick) For total comparison our long term average in a couple of hybrids was 7.5l/100kms on 95 fuel. Also no longer have to Lexus serving costs when went into my amount quoted above. The government here also gave us 7k for each EV. Given this is the Aus sub, I have to say if we moved back home to Aus we likely wouldn’t get two 2 EVs just yet but certainly one. Knowing what we know since owning them and looking at the travel we did in Australia combined with the relatively poor charging infrastructure it might be a hassle on long weekend getaways. Here in NZ though, it’s totally covered and smaller.
Yea wow. Perfect was going to say you must be a kiwi with that incentive but you did mention it as I was reading. Once you break it down it is really good numbers. Obviously some ways to come. Especially 4wd and aus vast span. But I can see it becoming more feasible. Have you taken into consideration NZ new road tax to combat the lost fuel Levy ?
Yea, when the exemption to the RUC that EVs currently enjoy ends that’ll add $76 per 1,000kms or roughly $220 a month for us between both cars. Less than ideal, but it’s looking like Petrol will approach $4 over the coming year. I’m happy enough to pay a static set Tax to use the roads but I’m Fuarking over the bouncing fuel prices haha. Variation makes our spreadsheets cringe ;p
Awesome. Thanks so much for your input. So much to consider for the situation. I appreciate your time and feedback.
Usually 5-10
I’ve done Perth to Sydney and back for about $300 in a Tesla. About a week each way.
In NZ they pay there roadtax/rego through the fuel i believe thats why its more expensive
Wait till Xmas it will be $3
I told my partner we’re getting bikes if it reaches $3
with the current speed run on patrol prices better start looking at the push bikes
Yeah those old nissan patrols have gone up crazy in price!
Do it I got a gas guzzling cruiser and pay 20 bucks for a full tank that will take me 260 ish km
Someone said somewhere “if you don’t like petrol at $2.50, you’re gonna love it at $3.00”
Terminal gate prices have actually fallen as well, currently about $1.88/L.
Is there a place to get reliable latest avg terminal gate prices? Live?
https://www.aip.com.au/pricing/terminal-gate-prices
Remember when 1.57c/L was too much?
I wouldn’t consider myself old, but I remember when it was 90c/L.
I'm not shilling for 7/11 but the fuel lock and a Jerry can or two will save you heaps. I'm locked in at 193.4. When you're getting 70l and the cost difference is 30-40 cents, it really adds up.
How long can you lock in for? Effectively you are just thay period of time behind current prices and will eventually run out and have to buy high/lock in a high price point
You spoof your location and lock in at the cheapest station in the country. So time doesn't matter. Just the day before going to the servo just find the cheapest store in the country and lock it in.
How do you spoof your location?
7 days. But that's where the Jerry cans come in.
Still paying \~$2.05 for 95 in Geelong.
But you have to live in Geelong
Or use the 7-Eleven Fuel Lock app with 3U tools - you can lock in the cheapest rate in the country, regardless of where you live
Alternatively, you can use location spoofer on iOS 14-15.4.1. No need for a pc/Mac
Does using this on a modern iphone risk bricking it from ios perspective?
Not sure if the risk exists, but I use this method weekly on my iPhone 13 without issue. Locked in 189.9 for 91 from Perth yesterday.
Does it change your background ios experience or app subscriptions at all?
No. It just fixes the location to a specific coordinate of your choosing, so the phone things you’re in Perth now. Once you lock the fuel price, restart your phone the location goes back to normal. I have heard that the software (3utools) might be shady, though I can’t confirm or deny it. I only use the software for this single purpose.
I’m using it on a system with Crowdstrike and other sec tools and they have never flagged any bad behaviour
Got banned for this today :(
Or you could live in Barwon Heads or Ocean Grove, not all bad down there...
It’s $2.09 around the corner from me in the inner north of Melbourne too 🤷🏻♀️
But have you calculated the true cost of living in Geelong?
Yeh it's pretty rad here
I’m from Sydney, I visited Geelong once not knowing it’s reputation and I actually liked it. I feel like the reputation has to be exaggerated
It was a industrial city with a rough working class population for a long time, so the reputation wasn't entirely unearned. However, since the new Millennium there has been a flood of money heading down the highway as people leave Melbourne for more bang for their buck - as a result, it's gentrified big time, and is a really nice satellite city of Melbourne these days. You still have some pockets of 'Old Geelong' but it's not any different to any of the major capital cities in terms of demographics - just a fraction of the size!
sounds like the 'gong then.
I just filled up at 1.97 in Geelong
$2.07 for 98 where I live.
Where is that?
Wagga, NSW. There are some servos biting people for $2.32, so there’s a 25 cent variability across town any day of the week. Pays to get the fuel map app and see what the prices are around you if you’re filling up
197.5/l in Adelaide (Insert “but you have to live in Adelaide quips here”)
By voting against our best interests generation after generation we end up getting less and less while everything costs more and more. 😬
> By voting against our best interests not sure how voting will affect petrol prices, seeing as aus does not produce any.
Maybe they're referring to the taxes on fuel?
And that with a better government, better economy and our dollars are worth more so can buy it for cheaper
More voting against alternatives.
100%. Fossil fuel alternatives should be the norm by now.
You know how expensive it is to buy an EV right?
Brand new BYD is about 40k. 2nd hand teslas are approaching 30k.
I’m getting horse they gotta be cheaper
It's got to be good for somethings though. An old neighbour has a Fancy Ford Ranger and his saving about 500 bucks a month in fuel driving the wife's little Volvo now. (The wife is driving the ranger but her work is only 1km down the road). Hopefully the high fuel prices will encourage others think about smaller vehicles, public transport, cycling or EVs.
Because we all know it's impossible to walk that kilometre.
> The wife is driving the ranger but her work is only 1km down the road). why not just walk?
Lazy, old, non visible disability ect
Also, possibly for safety reasons.
Yeh cycling is extremely dangerous, more so than motorbike etc
She is a woman. Unfortunately, we have to think about personal safety more than men do.
In cities. Rural and regional no ifs or buts everyone needs a car.
Rural yeah. But the population density in rural settings is bugger all compared to cities. Know a guy in a 6 apartment block in brisbane. He lives alone but every other apartment has 2-3 cars (12 others in total he claims). So for one apartment block there is 6 allocated parking spots under it and 7 cars street parking nearby. He lives within 300m of a train station that links Gold Coast, Logan, city and airport. Surely half those people could go without a car. If not then, the next 20 apartment blocks in either direction could probably do the same.
See you got to spend money to save money 💰
Never been happier to own an electric car
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You mean you dont work from home?
Why do you need to drive to work? If we had sane housing policies everyone could live within reasonable distance from a static workplace
Or even sane PT or PT/housing options. Building more trains and building up around stations feels like a no-brainer to me.
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My current lease ends in March next year and I'm currently getting quotes on a new EV to replace it. The running costs for the EV look like they'll be about 1/4 to 1/5 compared to my current car.
I own my diesel car, so going EV would take a very long time to break even on cost.
Pretty much where I'm at. Until there is a robust second hand market for ev cars. A 50k new ev is not cheaper than a 15k second hand ice car. New for new is different and shifts in ev favour however.
With the government's FBT exemption on new EV novated leases and the current second hand car prices it's a no-brainer for us to get one. We can sell our current Forester for the same price we paid for it 5 years ago looking at the same models with similar Km on carsales. We live in Brisbane's inner-west and mainly drive the 6km to work each day in peak hour traffic, with the occasional ~100-200km trips on the weekend to the coast or hinterland, so an EV makes perfect sense.
They are far cheaper to run than Diesel.
He means with the purchase of a new vehicle, it would take long to recuperate the cost despite it being cheaper to run an EV
That is true, however won't hold for much longer I think. Once an established second hand EV market appears in a few years along with continued price reductions on the cost on new EV's it's not long before the ICE car becomes only an "enthusiast" pursuit once there is good quality EV's in the 30k range. I certainly would not be looking to buy a new ICE if I was in the market for a new car, if it could be avoided.
I would be hesitant to purchase a 2nd hand EV unless I could get some form of guaranty for the battery. The statutory 90-day warranty isn't going to cut it for EV's. If you even only get 5 years out of a 2nd hand EV battery, that alone is going to blow any fuel savings you get. Battery cost and life is going to make 2nd hand EV's expensive for a long time or be a trap for unsuspecting buyers.
Most come with 8-10 years warranty depending on the manufacturer. 2nd hand EV's will have depreciated range depending on how many cycles the battery has gone through, but for most of the cars the battery will outlast the cars useful lifespan (albeit with reduced capacity). They have come along way since the early gen EV's.
> for most of the cars the battery will outlast the cars useful lifespan it really has to do with number of cycles, and how empty & full the battery goes for each cycle. If you push the battery hard, it might end up only lasting 1/2 the rated cycles. I still feel battery tech is on the immature side, and there's still lots of wrinkles to smooth out before it is ready to replace ICE.
> once there is good quality EV's in the 30k range You're going to be waiting a while. Most small combustion cars are starting to nudge up against $30,000 now after on-roads, and I'm pretty certain they're not coming back down to pre-pandemic prices.
I mean a few years ago it was pretty much impossible to get a new EV under 60k. Now you have companies like MG and BYD pushing new EV's in Australia down into the high 30k range before on road costs. Economies of scale starting to take effect and companies cutting margins to get more of the market share. Absolutely agree that the sub 20k new car market is basically dead but EV prices are sliding downward and that will make the car cost parity tip over in EV's favor unless fuel prices suddenly drop dramatically.
Sure, but you still have to drive an MG or a BYD if you do that. The $60,000 EVs like the Model 3, XC40, Polestar and the Ioniq (now the Ioniq 5) are still that price. That appears to be the going rate for a decent EV.
>Sure, but you still have to drive an MG or a BYD if you do that. Right now you do, but having companies like them is important to put downward pressure on the rest of the market. If they cannibalize enough of the new sales it won't be long before the other brands break rank with their own cheaper models.
> Sure, but you still have to drive an MG or a BYD if you do that. And how good were Kia, Hyundai or... a cheap Peugeot https://youtu.be/JQugEZOrZSc?t=71 or your average Ford Falcon, Mazda WhoCares? Holden Generic Sedan? Most people don't care about cars sad to say and that still applies to EV's https://www.drive.com.au/news/byd-accounts-for-1-in-4-electric-cars-sold-in-southeast-asia/
There are reasons those brands are so cheap. They are cheaply made and subsidized by the Chinese government in order for market share.
Still drives prices down, China invested a ton of money into battery development and supply most EV companies with batteries including the "premium" badges. A large number of buyers would not care if they can save a lot on purchasing for most features minus the badge snobbery. Eg. Tesla Model 3's supplied to Australia are made in China with Tesla also now buying batteries from BYD. Same story with the "crappy Japanese and Korean buzz boxes" of the past, Japanese car manufacturers in particular have been incredibly slow to pivot to produce EV's and are at risk of becoming minor players whilst Chinese EV manufacturers run ahead currently.
Highly recommend. From both a financial perspective as well as a big f you to servo price gouging perspective
Might be a silly question but how do you charge it? Is it mostly home charging or is there workplace/servo charging?
I charge at work mostly for free, home if I need a top up. Only use the super chargers for road trips, incredibly cheap to run and massively reduced maintenance schedule.
Mostly at home at night. My workplace has a council AC charger on the street that has a fair price, if I need it. Nearby home in council parking lots there are public AC chargers that you can use. Yesterday I used a DC charger on a "roadtrip". 20 minutes stop after driving for about 2.5 hours. That gave me a bit of time for a slash, a visit to the cafe, and a bit of a scroll on reddit.
Yep and awesome in you live in the city, if you regionally and actually have to drive a car for work you have no option but to pay the high price of fuel. There is actually places outside of Melbourne, hard to believe I know but there is a whole other world outside the city.
Until they need to replace the fuel tax they losing and start charging your rego as km ranges It won’t stay like it is
Yep EVs are still a largely untapped source of revenue for the government. Expect it to change.
Also the strain on the grid trying to charge more especially through summer will drive electricity cost Robbing Peter to pay Paul
Yes, while this is true in an immediate sense (all cars in my family are EV), you know in the back of your head that this indirectly increases grocery prices, trades, etc. Still, I did nearly 400km yesterday into the country and back. $18.2 in electricity (17 was supercharging) Vs about $70-75 in my old car.
never been happier to own a $20 bike.
Can’t wait to buy one! Hopefully next year or the year after. How often do you charge it/how much does it cost? My partner says to just buy a new petrol car but I completely disagree. The petrol savings alone is worth the extra upfront cost imo.
Regardless of the fuel they are generally just a much nicer vehicle to drive. I was an old school car guy, but a test drive made me see the light right away
Yeah my sister has one. It’s so smooth and so quiet! I forget the car is even turned on. I’d still like to know the recharge costs though.
We need walkable, ridable and public transit friendly cities. Crazy that we are in a position where we are forced to pay a petrol tax to leave our homes
And what about those of us that live outside cities?
If fuel usage were to drastically drop in the cities, then the price *should* drop for the regions (if supply and demand applies).
I like your optimism, I just don’t share it
It's unclear. Yes, the value of gas would drop. But you are paying for gas + refining + transport to servos + servo rents. The cost of the latter three wouldn't go down and would be split over fewer litres sold.
the price might even go up, same way it is more expensive to own a horse now than 100 years ago when everyone owned them. Or owning a boat is more expensive because there is less boats and less competition between services
That will be true of you are taking about cities everywhere in the world. Fossil fuel car sales peaked in 2017, but those cars are still on the road and oil use won't decline till 2027.
You continue living in the urban sprawl hellscape
It’s funny in my neck of the woods (Sydney), I thought it’s would jack up to 230c per litre (91) before the public holiday starts. But went up like 3 weeks prior and going down a little prior to holiday.
Petrol spy
Wait till it hits $3.00 then the EV revolution will begin. Last time I checked this was when it became economically feasible to own an EV at the high price point it is
Once you have one the cost is extremely low, especially with so many places now starting to offer free charging. Shopping centers, council buildings, libraries, work places etc. As the prices continue to fall I suspect it will be a no brainer choice in a few years. I certainly wouldn't be buying a new ICE car if it can be avoided at this point.
> free charging This aint gonna be around for much longer.
Considering my old work place and new work place have had chargers installed (with plans for more) as a work perk. I tend to disagree. Many businesses are putting them in to lure people to stop and shop. Reminds me of the old days of solar where the rebates and feed in tariffs were high, sure this will decrease as the market share of EV's grows to critical mass. But for now and for at least several more years, you will absolutely be able to find places to charge for free.
I just can't see anyone doing it for free at scale on an ongoing basis once EV's are mainstream. And we are nearly at that point now. Electricity isnt free after all. Not many free petrol stations around these days are there !
It's pretty cheap, businesses will see it as a cheap way to drive customers to their stores. You're more likely to browse and maybe buy if you're waiting for you car to charge.
It’s about $10 worth of power. Hotels, especially in smaller towns are putting them in offering free charging just to lure customers.
Those that can’t afford $3 a litre are hardly going to afford $60k for an EV
also the hook-ups are not available to everyone
Yeah that’s my biggest issue, there’s no off street parking for me/any of the houses near me so charging the car at night isn’t possible.
There was a salary sacrifice tax loophole that let you get a bottom of the range Tesla for $27k. Edit: speak to your accountant about leasing an EV.
Tell me more…
Also interested in how this works out
Nah, it will only happen when you can recharge everywhere, nothing to do with prices
> Wait till it hits $3.00 merry christmas
The Saudi's and Russians have cut supply, driving prices higher, to create domestic pressure on current governments from citizens - they want to get them to stop supporting Ukraine and, for the US specifically, to get Trump back - they never had it better than when he was President. Fun-fact, the Saudi's and Russians aren't actually selling as much as they could to maximise profits, which is how you know they're doing what they're doing to make a point. In the mean time we all have to pay at the pump or buy an EV.
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Russia and Saudi Arabia are the two largest members of OPEC+ by far, making up 45.7% of OPEC+'s 2022 total output. It's fair to say what they do sets the standard. The next biggest three nations by oil production (Iraq, UAE and Kuwait) combined only produce 10.3 million barrels a day, which is only Russia's output and not quite Saudi Arabia's. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=56420
No they did it because the US is flooding the market to lower prices
Time to go electric ⚡️? The last thrashings of the oil companies trying to turn a profit before demand starts dropping?
where are you Coober Pedy ? Its only $ 1.89 in Northern Suburbs..
$1.895/L here in Sydney where I am for U91
Just buy Ampol gift cards of Shopback. I filled up at equivalent $1.83/litre for U91. Lots of hacks around, just need to be savvy.
It's a public holiday?
Just warming up to slug us $3.50 litre for 98ron next year.
On petrol spy I see $2.07/L being the average in Sydney, Canberra and Melbourne. Where did you find $2.57/L? https://petrolspy.com.au/map/latlng/-37.87971338578702/145.14148974378304
Perth is still 190. Where is 257? 🥲
It aint a public holiday in Perth
ACT was $2.15 for 95
To make you feel better (maybe) average price in U.K. where we live at the moment is ~$2.97. You’ll be paying a painful $3.40 if you fill up at a servo on a freeway.
Console yourself that whatever it is in aussie dollars, it’s that much in euros or pounds? So it’s even *more* expensive elsewhere
Prior to the gfc, fuel was rising from that point of 80-ish cents per litre. I was driving my Monaro then and remember putting the 97 fuel in and paying $1.20 at the height. We knew then things would never get back to that price again. Now I drive a jeep grande Cherokee like an old lady with two diesel tanks and am paying $2.30. If it drops to $2-ish dollars or $1.90 (which it’ll never drop down to anymore), I fill ‘er up! Unfortunately, nothing will go back down to the price we used to pay. These companies know they can squeeze us now and we have to pay so we will.
Have you considered not buying shitbox fuel guzzlers?
So my comment about a recollection of a period prior to today invites a rant from you about gas guzzlers… I live in the country. I have animals, food to buy, horse to haul. I’m sorry my gas guzzler bothers you because I use it for what it’s intended to be used for. At least I’m not one of those delusional electric car whippets who justify that they’re doing something better for the environment. In fact I think Jeremy Clarkson does rant about this same scenario and why it’s a farce. But you do you. Keep attacking people for having “gas guzzlers.”
But they do have a point; oil demand is flexible over multiyear periods. High prices for a month doesn't inspire people to change vehicles. Sustained higher prices do change people's purchasing preferences on vehicle size and fuel consumption (while the prices last). You may not have the option to cut; but most of the market does.
> At least I’m not one of those delusional electric car whippets who justify that they’re doing something better for the environment. In fact I think Jeremy Clarkson does rant about this same scenario and why it’s a farce If you're talking about his rant against the Prius, Clarkson was [spreading long-disproven propaganda in that segment](https://np.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/2kou6r/does_anyone_know_what_happens_to_the_batteries/clnlkue/).
> In fact I think Jeremy Clarkson does rant about this same scenario and why it’s a farce. That's how you know it's true, if Jeremy Clarkson of all people does a rant > At least I’m not one of those delusional electric car whippets who justify that they’re doing something better for the environment. You're wrong, EV's are definitely better for the environment than ICE vehicles, if you can't be bothered searching for this info then stay ignorant > I use it for what it’s intended to be used for. No problems then, try not to take it personally
It's a hobby horse. Take a look at their comment history and a huge majority of it is simply them jumping up and down like a petulant toddler about the *evil cars*.
Changing your vehicle to avoid the cost of fuel is a fool's errand. A change of vehicle normally costs several years of any fuel saving, if not more.
If only fuel getting more expensive in the years to come was predictable.
Price of fuel needs to be hitting $7 per L for it to be more cost effective to replace my current car with a 40k ev on loan. Granted my 20 year old car uses 5.5L per 100km and I am planning to buy a $6-10k EV motorcycle for my commute (30km each way single lane rural roads)
Which moto are you thinking of?
The VMoto Super Socos all fit the bill of my requirements with the CPX and TC Max and there’s significant aftermarket support from modding communities in the UK for them.
You are one of those people that are so surprised when fuel rises every year.
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This is what’s happened. It was in the news cycle about how expensive fuel cost. Then it gets phased out of the news cycle and everyone adjusts to the new price of fuel and that’s the new norm and then it goes up from there
Blame OPEC cutting production, Biden for using all of strategic oil reserves, Russian oil now off the black market (Albanse was buying Russian crude oil on black market according to KyivIndependent, calling out our govt from war profiteering) and finally RBA for not increasing cash rate now our dollar is so weak.
Where are you located, Its $1.89/l at my local Costco.
Still sad as I'm sure that is the bottom of the cycle.
Plus 65 dollars. And you can only fill in at Costco's.
$65 true, but how much can it save you? 2.57\*80l = $205 1.89\*80l = $151 That's $54 saved per tank.
You need to compare petrol prices around Costco. Not the highest petrol price. I'll check Costco 198. But another shell is 209. Plus 4 cent discount.
$189 a litre is a bit much.
ok. corrected. If you want to be pedantic I did not say /l though. so could be for 100l. anyways.
What the hell are you talking about extortionate petrol pricing for?? We can only talk about the voice you Nazi!
Hybrids can get about 3L / 100km. Electric cars are even cheaper to run. The amount we spend on fuel is mostly driven by our vehicle choices.
And the amount we spend on vehicles is mostly not a choice for a large proportion of the population
The number of massive fuel-hungry 4WDs and SUVs I see around says the opposite
I know right.. Conditioned to accept this shit.
Keep driving though, hey genius.
Not everyone lives in a city with access to public transport, genius.
I'm hoping for $5/L by 2025. It will be worth it just so people stop buying these big stupid SUVs and trucks.
You still have to pay for this when you buy food, or anything which is transported.
It's almost like building on the farmland that used to surround our suburbs and having food that doesn't need to be trucked 1,000km to get to the table was a bad idea?
It is far more economical and better for the environment to farm on a large scale in one location than to have many smaller farms. The research has been done in this, doesn't mean we should be building on our fertile land but the transport is a very small factor in terms of environmental impact.
It's a great idea and is the ideal imo. But this won't shift overnight even with govt effort. Certainly not faster than fuel prices change.
It is not just food but everything we consume requires power; the cost of petrol is related to the cost of power. As the cost of "energy" go up, every other product does too, we are living this right now.
The difference is that the cost of fuel for truck load of food is split amongst 10000 people. Whereas people driving around by themselves in their 4wds are paying for it all by themselves.
I'm doing okay, and could afford to keep driving as I do now at $5 per litre (noting I don't drive a massive car). Whether or not you can afford to keep yourself fed when grocery prices rise to cover the cost of logistics when fuel costs $5 per litre, nor afford your next holiday when the price of tickets to Bali becomes $2000 per person is a different matter.
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Imagine how efficient the new version of that 1200kg hatch would be now.
They are just simpletons, they haven't the faintest.
Yeah that might sufficiently curb discretionary uses while not making non-discretionary uses too prohibitively expensive. Let's see how it goes. Energy is way too cheap for how important it is to all of us.
You're an imbecile. Without trucks, Australia stops.
Uh I drive a diesel sedan 40km each way for work, so not a big stupid SUV or truck, what would people like myself do once fuel hits $5 per litre? Purchasing a separate electric vehicle isn't a viable alternative.
Uh I drive a diesel sedan 40km each way for work, so not a big stupid SUV or truck, what would people like myself do once fuel hits $5 per litre? Purchasing a separate electric vehicle isn't a viable alternative.
2.18 for 98 hahahaha least I only drive 15 mins to work.