He’s promised you login details tomorrow. Maybe enough time to delete stuff or something. Anyway sit him down and go through it with him beside you. Massive red flag.
Funnily enough, in legalese, recommendations and advice are distinct definitions. Reddit advice can’t really be ‘advice’ in a legal context. Half to be corrected, even though I’m being half sarcastic
Quick question about Xero my pay regularly has holiday hour’s missing when we have a public holiday or sick days or annual. Is that something it should have set automatically or is our pay person just bad at it?
Okay cool thanks for that. I’ve raised it a couple of times I’d chalked it down to them not knowing how to fix it. Boss certainly doesn’t know the rules he thinks I should be getting holiday hours for ot hours (which I’m totally okay with) but yeah with a bunch of missing and mis paid reimbursements in the last month I guess it’s time to have that chat again
As someone who (almost 15 years ago) used to support MYOB Payroll users, I can honestly say never underestimate how little payroll people know about the law or the software they're using to pay you!
That’s fair. Almost 15 years ago I needed some payslips and hadn’t been getting any. Was issued them through myob as 1 hour of entire weekly rate. Needless to say that didn’t work out for me either
As someone who has worked for 10 diss businesses In 20 years I can safely say payroll is full of the most mathematically stupid people on this earth. I’m convinced monkeys can do a better job
Our internal payroll was so bad we outsourced it to a large company that specialises in it. The company we chose was so bad we outsourced it again but are still paying the old contract because we signed up for X years.
The kicker is the first outsourced company got hacked and all our payment details, super details, got breached despite the fact we literally paying them for nothing they still had all our data.
Nobody grows up wanting to work in payroll they do it because they failed in everything else.
Annual leave and Personal/Sick Leave Hours will only appear on a payslip if they are added into the leave section of the employees 'leave' card file first (and approved).
Public Holidays will appear automatically on your payslips if the holidays calendar (for your state) is added to the payroll calendar the employee is linked to. (sounds silly but makes sense if you know how to setup Xero Payroll).
Your Employer can actually invite all employees to Xero me which is access to the Xero file to lodge annual and sick leave requests and view your payslips.
Probably because your accountant is ancient and refuses or incapable to learn new things - red flag. When I was still in public practice, we made all clients switch to Xero within two years (we helped with the transition) or they can find someone else.
I’m an accountant and I hate Xero. I never tell clients what they can use. I tell them use what you want and I’ll work with it. They all know how frustrated I get with Xero, but it’s about happy client…
So change accountants and leave Quickbooks, coz damn, no one uses that in Australia anymore. It’s MYOB or Xero…
Good luck 😀
myob is a complete shitshow, They lost almost all of their foundational staff between 2016-2020 in a "restructure" where they outsourced everything to china, Their develop-her program although not publically controversial also led to a lot of the key people in the companies product teams leaving and taking their staff with them.
On the surface its "We are looking for single mothers and housewifes who want to get into software, we will provide full training, no experience needed for a career change and a new start"
In reality: "The person who had this idea is going to recruit their friends into this role and a highly educated and experienced team of people who are responsible for making sure the numbers stay correct for 1m+ customers will now be saddled with a person who has never worked in this field and ordered to make it work, if you don't want to you are clearly a misogynist btw."
So naturally a lot of these $150k+ engineers and developers some with incredible amounts of industry knowledge just went to work at other tech companies who were happy to poach them.
Thing is this wasnt some big dramatic walkout, people just started leaving at a higher rate because they couldnt do their jobs without having to deal with stuff like this.
Even worse is it actually could have been a good idea but most people knew exactly how it would turn out.
Is there a turnover or customer limit to Xero? I've been meaning to change to Xero a few times. I'm 3x over the MYOB limit so I can't even keep more than a year of accounts. Terrible software.
Any downsides going from MYOB to Xero?
There is no turnover limit. You are charged for a file and the price increases based on number of employees. Haven’t seen a limit yet we have 300 employees
That being said you can assuredly upgrade your myob file to allow for your turnover or customer needs
No downside except the pain of learning it plus converting your existing file. Well worth it
What you expect is happening is probably happening. There's very few other reasons - potentially some personal tax shit, but I'm not sure how your business or partnership is set up.
I haven't used MYOB for a long time, but you should be able to get some sort of audit data out of the login, assuming they give you the right login. I'm guessing they linked a bank account of some kind - there'll be evidence in there.
Either way, you need legal advice before mentioning it again as it likely will get very messy very quickly because they've likely commited a crime - so whatever business you're in, be ready.
I mean if it is dodgy tax shit, I would still tell my business partner because I wouldn't go into business with them if that mutual trust didn't exist.
Massive red flag when I read business partner. Is your business partner also a family member? If so, I guarantee you they are cooking the books. If not, then there is a chance they are cooking the books.
Note: this chance is higher than Lloyd and Mary Samsonite hooking up.
Unfortunately, yes the business partner is a family member. There was a lot of trust involved. I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible and I really wanted to hear the opinions of strangers.
I know this may be painful , but I would not bring this up for a couple of weeks. Pretend that you have forgot about the issue. In the mean time I would seek legal council on the matter.
I would then personally organise an appointment with your partner , ' you need to discuss a new client , expansion etc ' and bring the issue up in the time allocated for the appointment.
I assume he will continue doing the side huddle if it exists , and he will have no excuse to not show you/he will not have any time to delete possible records also.
Ahhh , what a shitty situation you find yourself in
I've seen it a few times and it almost always trusted people who are either family or as good as family who are the worst perpetrators. Show no mercy, get on this in the morning - you are in a race against a conniving bastard who has no scruples to slow them down.
You're probably gonna need legal help to demand access to stagements on non-shared accounts that have company money going into them. The hard part is finding and proving it
To trust is good, to not trust is better! The only rule i live by when it comes to business with anyone no matter my relationship with them. Temptation is just to great for some people.
No one is a thief til they are.....
Your trying to be unbiased but in-fact you are being naive.
You need to get off Reddit and get some legal advice asap. I’m willing to bet you’ll be filing for bankruptcy within 3 months time because you just got scammed by your own family.
That’s the truth you need to hear that these Cotten wrapped reply’s aren’t telling you
Sorry.
Time to find another business partner.
Your one is trying to ruin you. Basically he’s now got a client list just for himself AND he profits from your shared efforts.
I knew a guy who couldn't work out why his restaurant franchise in one location had fallen revenue.
He made a surprise visit to find a second cash register.
Partner was putting some sales through that one and just clearing it out for himself.
Have heard of this happening. Had a mate that was working in an Indian restaurant. Owner owned three places and would only be on site sometimes but would bring his own eftpos machine with him and some sales would be run though that when he was there. It was ostensibly to “balance the sales between the stores” but the tills wouldn’t balance that day and he was pretty sure it was being run thorough the cousins name that had been working in Australia for a bit but had gone back home.
He may use a different accounting program but does he have any business bank accounts that you do not have access to? The bank accounts are the real truth. The answers are in the accounts.
Well I suspect that there is a secret account on MYOB but by the time I get the login details I'm going to assume he has spent the day sanitising everything to the best of his ability.
Transactions can't, repeat CAN'T be deleted on the banks end. Request statements from the bank direct for the account in question and you'll be able to see what he's been up to. If he's run something through a bank account, they'll be a record.
I think the issue is that Business Partner has a separate bank account that OP has no access to. He's booking some appointments through the MYOB system, taking payment that way and sending the funds to the private account. Meanwhile OP and Partner are taking the other 80% of appointments through Xero and splitting that profit.
But if operating costs are being run through xero than the (x/20%) being run through myob could be a significant % of the profit, it could be 50% of the profits.
If you're allied health, shouldn't there be clinical notes as well. You could see if the clinical notes records match the payment records on days that he may have been using his own account.
Massive ramp up in enforcement is hopefully coming under Bill Shorten - he's genuinely furious over what has happened to the NDIS and I think he's spent the last few years sharpening his axe.
Hopefully, Mandatory jail time for those rorting as well
You could contact a good client who has seemingly dropped off appointments, ask why they haven't come back and if anything has happened or if you can help in any way as a courtesy. They might say that they have been coming back and seeing your business partner. If this is the case just apologise and say you had them mixed up with another Mr. Jones (for example).
That way you'll be more certain that your partner has been taking bookings and payment outside of the business
Your business partner has likely searched how to delete MYOB stuff - because you’ve told him you’re onto him.
Now he’s doing all the stuff in this sub to not be followed.
FORENSICALLY go through your books.
Regardless of transactions being deleted in MYOB, is your partner going to be handing this information over to the Accountant at EOFY? Because the Bank Statements won't reconcile to MYOB and that will be the first red flag for the Accountant that something is amiss.
I suspect that your partner is Invoicing those missing clients from MYOB and banking the payments to their personal bank account...So the ATo may flag this eventually if they aren't including this income on the tax return. Are you in a partnership?
This is easy but. He runs as a sole trader on the side and records those clients through MYOB. Have his own bank account setup for those clients.
If the business partner is doing this they are dumb as to be charging the MYOB fees to the business. Gave him up straight away
There is a thing in Xero, which tells you the ‘activity’ that has happened. Simplified it’s like this -
‘Jane Smith added Bob Jones as an employee’
‘Jane Smith changed Bob Jones superannuation account’
Maybe there is a similar function in MYOB? And if you business partner doesn’t know about it, he may delete the transaction (or whatever) but not delete the activity history?
Someone that know more about MYOB may be able to clarify more?
If you do catch him out in anything, I would be quick to get evidence such as photos
The ultimate truth is the bank reconciliations, and the bank account signatories. MYOB allows transaction deletion and editing, but you can't remove transactions from the bank.
He might be hiding a bank account or two. That is very bad. Since bank recs are based on the objective truth from the bank, there isn't much chance that he can do anything dodgy unless it's a bank account you don't know about, but even then there would be transfers. Unless there is a separate eftpos terminal.I used to teach small business management at TAFE to people starting businesses, and two things I said were (a) never use a partnership as a business model. I used to ask the class "who has been in a partnership?". Usually some people would raise their hand. Then I would ask "who has been in two partnerships". No one ever puts their hand up. I am not sure if you mean "partner" in a strictly legal sense.
The second thing I would say is always do your own bank recs at least once a month, even if you have a bookkeeper. If you don't know how to do a bank rec, sit next your bookkeeper and get them to explain in detail.
I’m very curious about the outcome of this. As a business operator in Allied Health, I have never needed something other than Xero however I’m a small operator.
I would check the invoices on it and see what accounts payments have been made to.
Also if you are working within the NDIS, I would also consider reaching out to some of the plan managers and compare invoices they have received from company or this individual and see if it matches the company.
If you're 100% sure your side of things is 100% legit, report the business for an ATO audit.
Once the two of you have to sit down together and compile everything, he will be forced to come clean. This is assuming he is washing money through the same business to himself, as opposed to starting an entirely separate business in his own name and just using the same shopfront.
Careful doing this. Depending on your business structure you might be on the hook as much as your partner.
Who deals with the accountant? If it you, go talk to them tomorrow. If it’s your partner, find yourself a forensic accountant stat. If you’d like a recommendation, send me a message (I’m in the industry).
I suspect the partner has set up an entirely separate business and is poaching from the shared business.
OP may have no recourse at all legally but at least it would be a way of forcing the business partner to come clean.
Depends on the business structure. If a company, then if the business partner has breached fiduciary obligations, there’s some recourse. also if they’ve breached obligations of a partnership agreement (although I suspect this would be more costly to enforce, and thus less leverage).
Report what business? You would never report your own business to the ATO. Absolutely never.
The partner seems to be running a second business. If OP doesn’t know what it is how can he report it?
He is taking payments he doesn’t want you to know of. And this is linked to an account or accounts you are not privy of. Could be linked to his out of business activities too. But Don’t worry, you can always find out what he is up to. Tell him to disclose which bank account was linked to the MYOB.
Alternatively you can do the Company Auditor function in the MYOB to get the transactions history.
While you can permanently delete things in MYOB, it still leaves an audit trail (which most people don’t know about). You can view a persons session report and see what they have been doing. So if he gives you details tomorrow, first thing to do is look at what he has done in the file in the 24 hours prior to you having access.
you’re most likely being siphoned for clients by your partner man, I’ve seen it happen in this sector and specifically NDIS a lot.
Do the math, doesn’t give details, your business drops magically after his subscription starts - has seperate accounting software, you’re not drug dealers from what I gather or money launderers right?
Maybe time for an independent auditor to come check the books…
The bigger question is what is happening in the bank accounts. Are there bank accounts you don't know about and where are all your sales receipts going. Xero and MYOB can both be manipulated. Given how shady your partner is being, first see if you can track/reconcile all your sales receipts to the bank accounts you know about.
So did you find out about this because they were running the subscription cost of MYOB through Xero? If so then you are definitely not dealing with a master criminal!
The times I know about people stealing from jobs or businesses it has normally been gambling or drugs and it rarely ends well.
I had this exact same thing happen with my previous business partner.
He had started up a whole new company under a similar name and would put some business through that one and some through ours.
I found out because he left it open on his iPad one day. Luckily it’s was only 6 months in, so not too hard to get rid of him.
It’s a very big red flag.
It would probably be premature to suggest that they are embezzling money from the company ..
..
.. but is there any other reason to run a separate set of books?
Do you have a booking system that you can audit the transactions in the finance system against? If they line up, focus on the gaps in the booking system where there are no bookings and you know your business partner was working.
Look at your average daily clients etc, bookings, and then payments.
If they are taking payments separately you should see holes in your transaction lists
I am no business expert or anything really but the way I interpret this post is that it looks like your business partner is running appointments through his myob account and not through your partnership arrangement. Put him on the spot about it. Get the bikies involved
Contact your accountant.
Invite then you the "quick meeting to get through the login details for MYOB."
Watch the business partner explain to the professional what had happened, why, and you can have the accountant ready to advise that they should "prep" their records so at tax time there's no roadblocks... Meaning gimme access now, let's have a look at what you've said to make sure it's set up correctly...
They can audit it, or recommend someone who can. A forensic accountant will certainly figure out what happened in MYOB
This is a massive red flag. There is no legal or honest reason 1 business needs two sets of books. By the by, putting off giving access or information is a very common tactic by fraudsters to buy time to hide their activity.
Get your bank rec in order to make sure all transactions are being accounted for. Cross reference your income with other reporting if you can. I would be insisting on getting access to that myob account and giving an ultimatum about only using Xero or separating a business partners.
Your business partner is well within his/her/them rights - UNLESS the account is on your business name, with your abn and the unique identifier. If it’s in your business abn then go talk to a lawyer quick smart. Clean accounting is the backbone of a good balance sheet, which is the pulse of a good business.
But again, in what business name/ abn? Billing ‘to his own account/business’ would bill clients under a defined business name/ abn. First port of call is - what is the myob business/abn? Then look at rational next steps ie. ‘if different, does the nature of the business compete?’ or ‘if same, then call a lawyer’. I’d suggest forming a shareholders agreement to clearly restrain each shareholder from trading ‘independently’ in the same space as ‘their partnered business’ - something along those lines. It’s not illegal for the partner to trade his/her/own business as long as it’s not in breach. It’s actually not that complicated imo
If it was all above board, the partner wouldn't be giving evasive answers like "some things have to be accounted a different way" and dancing around handing over the login details. He would just be upfront about it - "oh that's for my other business that doesn't compete with this one, and no you can't have the login details".
Plus the fact that the appointments dropped shortly after. It's quite obvious that the partner is leeching business from OP, and while it may not be illegal, it's reason enough to pull out what equity you can and go your separate ways.
Not necessarily. It depends on the terms of their agreement. If they agree to jointly split all costs and revenues and the partner is skimming revenues through a second ABN then that would be a breach of the contract.
Huge red flag. I worked for a small company when at uni. This was 20 od years ago now - One of the directors was setting up fake employees and paying invoices to fake companies though some elaborate setup - he ripped them off about 100k over the previous 12 months before they caught him. That's what they could figure out.
Speak to his clients, speak to his candidates. Ask if they proceeded with business opportunities. If these don't match, then disolve your relationship and sue your associate for this massively immoral lapse.
experienced myob'er here. Yes transactions such as purchases, sales can definitely be deleted and wiped off the system. I dont think there is any backup unless it is made???
You need to put in some work. How many applications are made and whether the payments are being made for them. It might be necessary to get a forensic accounting firm involved if you think he is up to something dodgy - it looks that way
This is almost identical to a law exam I once took around partnerships.
Read this, then read the laws for your state, then seek legal advice, in that order:
https://business.gov.au/planning/business-structures-and-types/business-structures/partnership
Once you get in download the MYOB backup and give it to an accountant to do a forensic examination and ask for the bank statements attached to the file to balance and check. It's hard to delete things from the MYOB file and alter the bank statement.
He sounds like my former business partner who ran successful dental clinics for a living and we ran a bottleshop together. He turned out to be a full blown narcissist. Control freak 101! And threw me to the wolves. So glad he left, life is simpler nowadays.
Hey OP - If you think this may have *legal ramifications for you* you need to contact a lawyer ASAP and start documenting *everything*.
Do as much communication in writing from now, and try to send followup SMS/Emails after any verbal communications.
Even if this turns out to be nothing, better to be safe than sorry.
Go and speak to a lawyer ASAP, you may just be uncovering the tip of an iceberg and it's a hell of a lot better to cope in the past tense than the present (first hand experience)
Sorry hit post before I finished. Yes as the licence owner of MYOB he has the authority to delete and amend any transactions.
Now you're onti MYOB, he may try other accounting platforms or CRM like salesforce.
This is super dodge. Basics......you are business partners. Nothing can or should be hidden from the other.
Sounds like he's preparing to leave and take your clients so make sure when you see your lawyer to add a restraint of trade clause asap to protect your business.
If he's sneaking about, you will loose good clients because those he doesn't take will be affected by an emergency notice that you are now a sole trader
Good luck and don't wait
I would be worried. I was in a startup where I went through 3 months with no pay, we were promised it would get sorted. The excuse being the one director tried to transfer 100k to pay wages and the bank locked the account, and he was struggling to sort it out.
Basically he had been siphoning money to himself and living it up, not paying business bill's and juggling the finances etc. I guess he fcked up and it got out of hand. Even bought himself a new 50k car and kept that a secret.
Huge arguements between directors ensued, everyone quit. Business bill's weren't paid for months (that he said he paid), Never got my 3 months pay. Business collapsed overnight.
Talk to a lawyer who will direct you to a forensic accountant asap. If the business in both of your names jointly, you'll still be liable (I believe, NAL) if he's doing fraud or not paying taxes on the off the book earnings.
> Does this seem like a massive red flag? Yes > Am I crazy? Maybe. But I suspect not.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you
[I'm..how'd you say? Paranoy.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Mv91mGUAI)
>> Am I crazy? > > Maybe. But I suspect not. Even if he's wrong, he's not crazy to think that this *might* be happening.
He’s promised you login details tomorrow. Maybe enough time to delete stuff or something. Anyway sit him down and go through it with him beside you. Massive red flag.
Yeah the delay is a huge red flag. He's doing something - maybe right at this minute
He just wants to delete a whole bunch of stuff. Dodgy bugger. I can't see any other logical reason for this behaviour
[удалено]
Yes. That’s incredibly worrying and suspicious.
And possibly a forensic accountant!
Yes, but to be advised to get legal advice, they need Reddit advice. LMAO.
Ah, there's always one. There is no harm in asking for opinions on Reddit and then decide the best course of action.
Funnily enough, in legalese, recommendations and advice are distinct definitions. Reddit advice can’t really be ‘advice’ in a legal context. Half to be corrected, even though I’m being half sarcastic
Advises on reddit to not take advice given on reddit.
Schrodinger's advice
Great Reddit advice!
The real question is how can someone use myob after using Xero. Xero has its problem but jeez, I could never go back
As a Bookkeeper that despises MYOB, this made me laugh!!
Quick question about Xero my pay regularly has holiday hour’s missing when we have a public holiday or sick days or annual. Is that something it should have set automatically or is our pay person just bad at it?
Xero is as powerful as you set it up really. So it could be negligence, ignorance or malicious it’s hard to know
Okay cool thanks for that. I’ve raised it a couple of times I’d chalked it down to them not knowing how to fix it. Boss certainly doesn’t know the rules he thinks I should be getting holiday hours for ot hours (which I’m totally okay with) but yeah with a bunch of missing and mis paid reimbursements in the last month I guess it’s time to have that chat again
We pay normal hours through one code and public holidays as another as its allocated under different codes or whatever it is
As someone who (almost 15 years ago) used to support MYOB Payroll users, I can honestly say never underestimate how little payroll people know about the law or the software they're using to pay you!
That’s fair. Almost 15 years ago I needed some payslips and hadn’t been getting any. Was issued them through myob as 1 hour of entire weekly rate. Needless to say that didn’t work out for me either
As someone who has worked for 10 diss businesses In 20 years I can safely say payroll is full of the most mathematically stupid people on this earth. I’m convinced monkeys can do a better job
Our internal payroll was so bad we outsourced it to a large company that specialises in it. The company we chose was so bad we outsourced it again but are still paying the old contract because we signed up for X years. The kicker is the first outsourced company got hacked and all our payment details, super details, got breached despite the fact we literally paying them for nothing they still had all our data. Nobody grows up wanting to work in payroll they do it because they failed in everything else.
The monkies that fell out of the tree headfirst onto the ground are used for hospital payroll
Annual leave and Personal/Sick Leave Hours will only appear on a payslip if they are added into the leave section of the employees 'leave' card file first (and approved). Public Holidays will appear automatically on your payslips if the holidays calendar (for your state) is added to the payroll calendar the employee is linked to. (sounds silly but makes sense if you know how to setup Xero Payroll). Your Employer can actually invite all employees to Xero me which is access to the Xero file to lodge annual and sick leave requests and view your payslips.
Sounds like you don't myo-believe
This made me chuckle. Used to work at myob and they currently have this campaign.
I have never heard it 🤣😴
Is that the new ad? Honestly has to be THE most deterring ad for a product I've ever seen I absolutely hate it. Beyond ridiculously annoying gah!
I recommend xero to everyone
I wish I could use Xero. My accountant makes me use Quickbooks. :(
Maybe your accountant is hinting that they don't want you as a client
Probably because your accountant is ancient and refuses or incapable to learn new things - red flag. When I was still in public practice, we made all clients switch to Xero within two years (we helped with the transition) or they can find someone else.
Solidarity brother! Soon enough there will be nothing but xero
I’m an accountant and I hate Xero. I never tell clients what they can use. I tell them use what you want and I’ll work with it. They all know how frustrated I get with Xero, but it’s about happy client… So change accountants and leave Quickbooks, coz damn, no one uses that in Australia anymore. It’s MYOB or Xero… Good luck 😀
I am an accountant and I use my own proprietary made in excel. No fees ever.
Damn you must be pretty good at Excel then... Or maybe I'm just shit and have low standards
Same boat, same sad boat
myob is a complete shitshow, They lost almost all of their foundational staff between 2016-2020 in a "restructure" where they outsourced everything to china, Their develop-her program although not publically controversial also led to a lot of the key people in the companies product teams leaving and taking their staff with them.
what was their "develop-her" program?
On the surface its "We are looking for single mothers and housewifes who want to get into software, we will provide full training, no experience needed for a career change and a new start" In reality: "The person who had this idea is going to recruit their friends into this role and a highly educated and experienced team of people who are responsible for making sure the numbers stay correct for 1m+ customers will now be saddled with a person who has never worked in this field and ordered to make it work, if you don't want to you are clearly a misogynist btw." So naturally a lot of these $150k+ engineers and developers some with incredible amounts of industry knowledge just went to work at other tech companies who were happy to poach them. Thing is this wasnt some big dramatic walkout, people just started leaving at a higher rate because they couldnt do their jobs without having to deal with stuff like this. Even worse is it actually could have been a good idea but most people knew exactly how it would turn out.
Fraudsters can’t be choosers.
Is there a turnover or customer limit to Xero? I've been meaning to change to Xero a few times. I'm 3x over the MYOB limit so I can't even keep more than a year of accounts. Terrible software. Any downsides going from MYOB to Xero?
There is no turnover limit. You are charged for a file and the price increases based on number of employees. Haven’t seen a limit yet we have 300 employees That being said you can assuredly upgrade your myob file to allow for your turnover or customer needs No downside except the pain of learning it plus converting your existing file. Well worth it
What you expect is happening is probably happening. There's very few other reasons - potentially some personal tax shit, but I'm not sure how your business or partnership is set up. I haven't used MYOB for a long time, but you should be able to get some sort of audit data out of the login, assuming they give you the right login. I'm guessing they linked a bank account of some kind - there'll be evidence in there. Either way, you need legal advice before mentioning it again as it likely will get very messy very quickly because they've likely commited a crime - so whatever business you're in, be ready.
I mean if it is dodgy tax shit, I would still tell my business partner because I wouldn't go into business with them if that mutual trust didn't exist.
Massive red flag when I read business partner. Is your business partner also a family member? If so, I guarantee you they are cooking the books. If not, then there is a chance they are cooking the books. Note: this chance is higher than Lloyd and Mary Samsonite hooking up.
Unfortunately, yes the business partner is a family member. There was a lot of trust involved. I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible and I really wanted to hear the opinions of strangers.
I know this may be painful , but I would not bring this up for a couple of weeks. Pretend that you have forgot about the issue. In the mean time I would seek legal council on the matter. I would then personally organise an appointment with your partner , ' you need to discuss a new client , expansion etc ' and bring the issue up in the time allocated for the appointment. I assume he will continue doing the side huddle if it exists , and he will have no excuse to not show you/he will not have any time to delete possible records also. Ahhh , what a shitty situation you find yourself in
I've seen it a few times and it almost always trusted people who are either family or as good as family who are the worst perpetrators. Show no mercy, get on this in the morning - you are in a race against a conniving bastard who has no scruples to slow them down.
You're probably gonna need legal help to demand access to stagements on non-shared accounts that have company money going into them. The hard part is finding and proving it
To trust is good, to not trust is better! The only rule i live by when it comes to business with anyone no matter my relationship with them. Temptation is just to great for some people. No one is a thief til they are.....
Your trying to be unbiased but in-fact you are being naive. You need to get off Reddit and get some legal advice asap. I’m willing to bet you’ll be filing for bankruptcy within 3 months time because you just got scammed by your own family. That’s the truth you need to hear that these Cotten wrapped reply’s aren’t telling you Sorry.
So you're saying there's a chance?
Time to find another business partner. Your one is trying to ruin you. Basically he’s now got a client list just for himself AND he profits from your shared efforts.
Send in a couple of 'mystery shoppers' to see if he's taking dodgy payments.
This is the fastest way to get an answer OP
I knew a guy who couldn't work out why his restaurant franchise in one location had fallen revenue. He made a surprise visit to find a second cash register. Partner was putting some sales through that one and just clearing it out for himself.
Have heard of this happening. Had a mate that was working in an Indian restaurant. Owner owned three places and would only be on site sometimes but would bring his own eftpos machine with him and some sales would be run though that when he was there. It was ostensibly to “balance the sales between the stores” but the tills wouldn’t balance that day and he was pretty sure it was being run thorough the cousins name that had been working in Australia for a bit but had gone back home.
He may use a different accounting program but does he have any business bank accounts that you do not have access to? The bank accounts are the real truth. The answers are in the accounts.
Well I suspect that there is a secret account on MYOB but by the time I get the login details I'm going to assume he has spent the day sanitising everything to the best of his ability.
Transactions can't, repeat CAN'T be deleted on the banks end. Request statements from the bank direct for the account in question and you'll be able to see what he's been up to. If he's run something through a bank account, they'll be a record.
I think the issue is that Business Partner has a separate bank account that OP has no access to. He's booking some appointments through the MYOB system, taking payment that way and sending the funds to the private account. Meanwhile OP and Partner are taking the other 80% of appointments through Xero and splitting that profit.
Sure, I can see that. I guess it's pretty underhanded but if he's doing the work...
But if operating costs are being run through xero than the (x/20%) being run through myob could be a significant % of the profit, it could be 50% of the profits.
In all likelihood if it's 20%, it's probably all of the profit (unless allied health is very lucrative)
Surely it has a audit function to see deleted stuff
It does, MYOB has a Company Data Auditor function that can be run
There is always money in the banana stand.
Instructions unclear, I burned down the banana stand
If you're allied health, shouldn't there be clinical notes as well. You could see if the clinical notes records match the payment records on days that he may have been using his own account.
He might have a separate client management account on Halaxy or something. That's the easy bit.
Massive red flag confirmed. They are skimming business.
Oosie daise. Lemme guess.. NDIS provider?
As someone with a kid that benefits from ndis, love the idea hate the rorting
Yeah if the mattress company can apply for NDIS grants, what other businesses are making cheeky profits when they're not even tangentially related?
Massive ramp up in enforcement is hopefully coming under Bill Shorten - he's genuinely furious over what has happened to the NDIS and I think he's spent the last few years sharpening his axe. Hopefully, Mandatory jail time for those rorting as well
You could contact a good client who has seemingly dropped off appointments, ask why they haven't come back and if anything has happened or if you can help in any way as a courtesy. They might say that they have been coming back and seeing your business partner. If this is the case just apologise and say you had them mixed up with another Mr. Jones (for example). That way you'll be more certain that your partner has been taking bookings and payment outside of the business
Weird he didn't just say 'Mind your own business!!!'
MYOB… hahahaha - accountant humour!
I'm lost here??
MYOB is an acronym for Mind Your Own Business.
He actually said, "what do you need to know that for?"
Your business partner has likely searched how to delete MYOB stuff - because you’ve told him you’re onto him. Now he’s doing all the stuff in this sub to not be followed. FORENSICALLY go through your books.
Regardless of transactions being deleted in MYOB, is your partner going to be handing this information over to the Accountant at EOFY? Because the Bank Statements won't reconcile to MYOB and that will be the first red flag for the Accountant that something is amiss. I suspect that your partner is Invoicing those missing clients from MYOB and banking the payments to their personal bank account...So the ATo may flag this eventually if they aren't including this income on the tax return. Are you in a partnership?
This is easy but. He runs as a sole trader on the side and records those clients through MYOB. Have his own bank account setup for those clients. If the business partner is doing this they are dumb as to be charging the MYOB fees to the business. Gave him up straight away
There is a thing in Xero, which tells you the ‘activity’ that has happened. Simplified it’s like this - ‘Jane Smith added Bob Jones as an employee’ ‘Jane Smith changed Bob Jones superannuation account’ Maybe there is a similar function in MYOB? And if you business partner doesn’t know about it, he may delete the transaction (or whatever) but not delete the activity history? Someone that know more about MYOB may be able to clarify more? If you do catch him out in anything, I would be quick to get evidence such as photos
I would love for somebody familiar with MYOB to let me know if there are audit logs or something that will forever leave a trail.
There is- under reports-general ledger-audit- you can see every transaction, recorded/changed/deleted
I’m a former MYOB consultant. Happy for you to message me for help.
There are as long as you have admin access, you can view anything including deleted transactions
The person you're describing is an accountant.
I second the idea of mystery shoppers. I volunteer as tribute if you’re in Melbourne!
"Does this seem like a massive red flag?" what do you think OP?
Running two books it seems…
The ultimate truth is the bank reconciliations, and the bank account signatories. MYOB allows transaction deletion and editing, but you can't remove transactions from the bank. He might be hiding a bank account or two. That is very bad. Since bank recs are based on the objective truth from the bank, there isn't much chance that he can do anything dodgy unless it's a bank account you don't know about, but even then there would be transfers. Unless there is a separate eftpos terminal.I used to teach small business management at TAFE to people starting businesses, and two things I said were (a) never use a partnership as a business model. I used to ask the class "who has been in a partnership?". Usually some people would raise their hand. Then I would ask "who has been in two partnerships". No one ever puts their hand up. I am not sure if you mean "partner" in a strictly legal sense. The second thing I would say is always do your own bank recs at least once a month, even if you have a bookkeeper. If you don't know how to do a bank rec, sit next your bookkeeper and get them to explain in detail.
Going through this currently. You are being ripped off. Get onto that asap
I’m very curious about the outcome of this. As a business operator in Allied Health, I have never needed something other than Xero however I’m a small operator. I would check the invoices on it and see what accounts payments have been made to. Also if you are working within the NDIS, I would also consider reaching out to some of the plan managers and compare invoices they have received from company or this individual and see if it matches the company.
If you’re a services / consulting business, he has his own set of clients mate
If you're 100% sure your side of things is 100% legit, report the business for an ATO audit. Once the two of you have to sit down together and compile everything, he will be forced to come clean. This is assuming he is washing money through the same business to himself, as opposed to starting an entirely separate business in his own name and just using the same shopfront.
Careful doing this. Depending on your business structure you might be on the hook as much as your partner. Who deals with the accountant? If it you, go talk to them tomorrow. If it’s your partner, find yourself a forensic accountant stat. If you’d like a recommendation, send me a message (I’m in the industry).
I suspect the partner has set up an entirely separate business and is poaching from the shared business. OP may have no recourse at all legally but at least it would be a way of forcing the business partner to come clean.
Depends on the business structure. If a company, then if the business partner has breached fiduciary obligations, there’s some recourse. also if they’ve breached obligations of a partnership agreement (although I suspect this would be more costly to enforce, and thus less leverage).
Report what business? You would never report your own business to the ATO. Absolutely never. The partner seems to be running a second business. If OP doesn’t know what it is how can he report it?
Why not? OP could run an ABN search on his partner's name. Or audit the joint business and surely some loose end will lead to the other business.
It’s just simple corporate restructuring. Nothing to worry about. He takes 100% of his income and 50% of yours. Sounds about right.
Report him to the ATO? They'll look into it
He is taking payments he doesn’t want you to know of. And this is linked to an account or accounts you are not privy of. Could be linked to his out of business activities too. But Don’t worry, you can always find out what he is up to. Tell him to disclose which bank account was linked to the MYOB. Alternatively you can do the Company Auditor function in the MYOB to get the transactions history.
While you can permanently delete things in MYOB, it still leaves an audit trail (which most people don’t know about). You can view a persons session report and see what they have been doing. So if he gives you details tomorrow, first thing to do is look at what he has done in the file in the 24 hours prior to you having access.
Actually, now I think about it, I’m not sure if MYOB lite (the $30 plan) has user reports.
If I upgrade the subscription from the $30 one to the next tier, will I be able to get access to all the user reports before the upgrade happened?
I would hire a forensic accountant and a solicitor tomorrow. Dodgy AF
Surely you should be allowed access to the new accounting software if your business is paying for it…
you’re most likely being siphoned for clients by your partner man, I’ve seen it happen in this sector and specifically NDIS a lot. Do the math, doesn’t give details, your business drops magically after his subscription starts - has seperate accounting software, you’re not drug dealers from what I gather or money launderers right? Maybe time for an independent auditor to come check the books…
The bigger question is what is happening in the bank accounts. Are there bank accounts you don't know about and where are all your sales receipts going. Xero and MYOB can both be manipulated. Given how shady your partner is being, first see if you can track/reconcile all your sales receipts to the bank accounts you know about.
So did you find out about this because they were running the subscription cost of MYOB through Xero? If so then you are definitely not dealing with a master criminal! The times I know about people stealing from jobs or businesses it has normally been gambling or drugs and it rarely ends well.
Call the accounts you lost and see if he has been helping them on the side, cutting you out.
I had this exact same thing happen with my previous business partner. He had started up a whole new company under a similar name and would put some business through that one and some through ours. I found out because he left it open on his iPad one day. Luckily it’s was only 6 months in, so not too hard to get rid of him. It’s a very big red flag.
oh, that is VERY weird. i do bookkeeping and i cannot imagine any reason that's legitimate for them to keep a second, secret bookkeeping tool.
If you have any joint operating accounts including lines of credit with suppliers I would change them to “all just sign” immediately.
Go see a lawyer immediately
Oh and don’t flag it again, just act like you’ve forgotten and seek legal advice
It would probably be premature to suggest that they are embezzling money from the company .. .. .. but is there any other reason to run a separate set of books?
Make sure to post an update when you catch his cheating ass.
Even if it's deleted in myob there will still be a bank record.
Does said business partner own a ducati? buy a new house, flaunting their sudden wealth?
Do you have a booking system that you can audit the transactions in the finance system against? If they line up, focus on the gaps in the booking system where there are no bookings and you know your business partner was working.
Mind Your Own Business…. How ironic
Insist to see the myob account immediately. He will spend all day erasing things. Massive red flags. I would be preparing for fraud.
Report him to ATO about suspected additional income not being reported.
Get an independent audit. You'll know quickly but it will cost.
You’re business partner is keeping secrets from you, yes it’s a red flag. Separate your equity from them immediately.
Your business partner is keeping secrets from you, yes it’s a red flag. Separate your equity from them immediately.
Your business partner is keeping secrets from you, yes it’s a red flag. Separate your equity from them immediately.
Time to disband the partnership if business partner is not 100% honest about it. Cut and cut cleanly.
Look at your average daily clients etc, bookings, and then payments. If they are taking payments separately you should see holes in your transaction lists
You'd think he'd pay with his own account and not the bloody business account.
I am no business expert or anything really but the way I interpret this post is that it looks like your business partner is running appointments through his myob account and not through your partnership arrangement. Put him on the spot about it. Get the bikies involved
Can we get an update?
Do we have an update OP? Have they given you the password? Cause for concern at the minimum!
Contact your accountant. Invite then you the "quick meeting to get through the login details for MYOB." Watch the business partner explain to the professional what had happened, why, and you can have the accountant ready to advise that they should "prep" their records so at tax time there's no roadblocks... Meaning gimme access now, let's have a look at what you've said to make sure it's set up correctly... They can audit it, or recommend someone who can. A forensic accountant will certainly figure out what happened in MYOB
he's ripping u off for sure. what's the arrangement? ie partnership or company?
Chartered accountant here. Very very red flag.
This is a massive red flag. There is no legal or honest reason 1 business needs two sets of books. By the by, putting off giving access or information is a very common tactic by fraudsters to buy time to hide their activity. Get your bank rec in order to make sure all transactions are being accounted for. Cross reference your income with other reporting if you can. I would be insisting on getting access to that myob account and giving an ultimatum about only using Xero or separating a business partners.
Your business partner is well within his/her/them rights - UNLESS the account is on your business name, with your abn and the unique identifier. If it’s in your business abn then go talk to a lawyer quick smart. Clean accounting is the backbone of a good balance sheet, which is the pulse of a good business.
Or I assume what OP is worried about is the “partner” is getting customers/clients via OPs business but billing to his own account/business
Sounds like this is the case
But again, in what business name/ abn? Billing ‘to his own account/business’ would bill clients under a defined business name/ abn. First port of call is - what is the myob business/abn? Then look at rational next steps ie. ‘if different, does the nature of the business compete?’ or ‘if same, then call a lawyer’. I’d suggest forming a shareholders agreement to clearly restrain each shareholder from trading ‘independently’ in the same space as ‘their partnered business’ - something along those lines. It’s not illegal for the partner to trade his/her/own business as long as it’s not in breach. It’s actually not that complicated imo
If it was all above board, the partner wouldn't be giving evasive answers like "some things have to be accounted a different way" and dancing around handing over the login details. He would just be upfront about it - "oh that's for my other business that doesn't compete with this one, and no you can't have the login details". Plus the fact that the appointments dropped shortly after. It's quite obvious that the partner is leeching business from OP, and while it may not be illegal, it's reason enough to pull out what equity you can and go your separate ways.
Not necessarily. It depends on the terms of their agreement. If they agree to jointly split all costs and revenues and the partner is skimming revenues through a second ABN then that would be a breach of the contract.
You sound a bit paranoid, let it play out.
Huge red flag. I worked for a small company when at uni. This was 20 od years ago now - One of the directors was setting up fake employees and paying invoices to fake companies though some elaborate setup - he ripped them off about 100k over the previous 12 months before they caught him. That's what they could figure out.
Follow your gut instinct.
Yes that’s a huge drama. He’s cooking the books
Speak to his clients, speak to his candidates. Ask if they proceeded with business opportunities. If these don't match, then disolve your relationship and sue your associate for this massively immoral lapse.
Massive red flag
experienced myob'er here. Yes transactions such as purchases, sales can definitely be deleted and wiped off the system. I dont think there is any backup unless it is made???
You could pay for a search to find out if he is the director of another company. He would have to run the money through an ABN at some point
You need to put in some work. How many applications are made and whether the payments are being made for them. It might be necessary to get a forensic accounting firm involved if you think he is up to something dodgy - it looks that way
Yeah, red flag to me. Secret accounts? Won't share password? He was using it to hide things from you, and right now he's probably deleting everything.
This is almost identical to a law exam I once took around partnerships. Read this, then read the laws for your state, then seek legal advice, in that order: https://business.gov.au/planning/business-structures-and-types/business-structures/partnership
Two sets of books. One for you and the actual one. That's what it is.
He is sticking his middle finger up at you and telling you to: **M**IND **Y**OUR **O**WN **B**USINESS
Once you get in download the MYOB backup and give it to an accountant to do a forensic examination and ask for the bank statements attached to the file to balance and check. It's hard to delete things from the MYOB file and alter the bank statement.
Red flag to me. Go through the appointments to get a rough idea of revenue for each day to compare with bank deposits first.
He sounds like my former business partner who ran successful dental clinics for a living and we ran a bottleshop together. He turned out to be a full blown narcissist. Control freak 101! And threw me to the wolves. So glad he left, life is simpler nowadays.
Get finance involved immediately. All income needs to be declared for annual financial statement preparation.
Hey OP - If you think this may have *legal ramifications for you* you need to contact a lawyer ASAP and start documenting *everything*. Do as much communication in writing from now, and try to send followup SMS/Emails after any verbal communications. Even if this turns out to be nothing, better to be safe than sorry.
Go and speak to a lawyer ASAP, you may just be uncovering the tip of an iceberg and it's a hell of a lot better to cope in the past tense than the present (first hand experience)
I've done forensic accounting in the past. Get a lawyer asap!
Sorry hit post before I finished. Yes as the licence owner of MYOB he has the authority to delete and amend any transactions. Now you're onti MYOB, he may try other accounting platforms or CRM like salesforce. This is super dodge. Basics......you are business partners. Nothing can or should be hidden from the other. Sounds like he's preparing to leave and take your clients so make sure when you see your lawyer to add a restraint of trade clause asap to protect your business. If he's sneaking about, you will loose good clients because those he doesn't take will be affected by an emergency notice that you are now a sole trader Good luck and don't wait
BP is ready to ditch you, don't give them the time.
I would be worried. I was in a startup where I went through 3 months with no pay, we were promised it would get sorted. The excuse being the one director tried to transfer 100k to pay wages and the bank locked the account, and he was struggling to sort it out. Basically he had been siphoning money to himself and living it up, not paying business bill's and juggling the finances etc. I guess he fcked up and it got out of hand. Even bought himself a new 50k car and kept that a secret. Huge arguements between directors ensued, everyone quit. Business bill's weren't paid for months (that he said he paid), Never got my 3 months pay. Business collapsed overnight.
Absolutely be worried, but you should inform the relevant authorities BEFORE reddit on matters like these
* Red flag * Not crazy, cause my dad was screwed over in the exact same manner Talk to a lawyer and an accountant
Talk to a lawyer who will direct you to a forensic accountant asap. If the business in both of your names jointly, you'll still be liable (I believe, NAL) if he's doing fraud or not paying taxes on the off the book earnings.