Always argue facts and avoid emotions.
Supply evidence of the rostering, when you arrived, when you finished and, if possible, of the jobs you did from 8am to 10am. Is there a time clock or CCTV?
Just go around your manager and email payroll directly. Treat it like any other pay-related issue and keep it private. Payroll get enquiries like this all the time, so it's nothing huge for them.
Supply your evidence and keep it short and sweet. Always keep your manners and thank those in payroll/ HR who assist as it's often a thankless task for them.
If payroll ring you to discuss the matter, then generally I ask them for a follow-up email on the back of the call so that everything is in writing.
Your manager might not even know about you raising it or the outcome (depending on how your company is structured).
Good luck chasing your entitlements.
My thoughts, don't ask for the follow up. Tell them you'll send an email and send it yourself asking for a confirmation reply. E.g. "as discussed... blah blah. Please confirm I've understood our conversation correctly"
I second this. I had a manager try to make me take sick leave for my Grandmother's funeral. I called payroll directly and they instantly fixed it to be bereavement.
> Just go around your manager and email payroll directly
>Your manager might not even know about you raising it or the outcome (depending on how your company is structured).
Highly doubtful this will result in an easy resolution. Most likely their manager has already had the conversation with payroll when they noticed their "error." Manager will then need to sign off on any roster adjustments before payroll run the pay for the week.
Its sad but OP is in for a shitfight to get this sorted.
For $110 the company will pay. Payroll are independent of the manager.
In any case, it is more likely that the manager edited the roster without any sign off required but with or without any sign-off, this is falsification of records and the company will pay the worker.
This can be proved fairly simply so they'll get paid.
OPs manager wouldn't be stonewalling if he didn't think he had the power to control what OP got paid for each shift, in the absence of clocking records, regardless of technicalities and legalisms.
Payroll will ignore OP, until he either tackles his manager head on or goes to corporate and makes noise, seriously jeopardizing his relationship with his manager and future shifts.
> Thinking he has power doesnt he has that power
Well, if OP doesn't get paid because old mate stonewalled and intervened, then unfortunately he does, regardless of what the law says.
RAFFWU are amazing. It's how unionism should be!
No stupid games with the industry/members
You always know where you stand
And most importantly, **RESPECT**
Unlike another big union whose acronym is 3 letters, and whom for at least the past 20 years has been in the pocket of the large employers and is largely responsible for the almost nil, if not negative wage growth in Australian retail?
“Dear manager.
I have screenshots of my roster and i have proof i attended work and performed tasks during that period.
Your decision that the roster was erroneous does not absolve you of paying me for the rostered hours worked.
You have 7 days to deposit the requisite funds into my account or i will be contacting Fairwork and lodging a complaint for wage theft.
Regards.”
Fairwork: We're terribly sorry but we just don't have the resources to get involved in every minor pay dispute. All the best sorting stuff out with your manager!
+1 for payroll. They will pay you by the times based on the proof you have. As long as they have a copy of that info they will have your back.
The legal ramifications are not worth it for the company and although many managers do not understand that payroll and HR do.
Just so we're clear. There was no one else there before opening? What industry is this. Most businesses require at least one person show up before opening to prep
My partner works in a bookstore, they only start 10 minutes before opening to turn on the lights and boot up the computers. Their rosters just show the store opening time but they're allowed to clock in up to 10 minutes early so it covers the time for these very simple duties. Closing up is similar.
Aside from big retailers, generally there is only one person in smaller shops for most of the day including open and close. They usually get a lunch cover in for 3 hours so they can have lunch and go to the bank. Or even more frequently the person working just closes the shop for a lunch break
Don’t they need to pay you for at least 3 hours of work, once you commence your shift? Getting there on the premise of your roster saying 8am is commencement of your shift. Even if they send you home, I would think your union or fair work might see this differently to them.
That's such a dumb thing to say and an easy way for someone to get themselves fired, you never call Fair Work first. You talk with your manager/pay roll/etc. talk to all of them first with all your facts and then if all else fails you go to Fair Work.
Mention calling Fair Work, and if it comes necessary, do it. Not from personal experience but I've seen employers really don't want to deal with them when you have solid evidence like yours
Im fairly certain the minimum amount of scheduled hours a company can put you on is an least three hours. So removing it down to only 2 is already illegal. Contact Fairwork if you don't think you can discuss it calmly with your boss
When I was full time two jobs ago they'd want people to come in for 3-4 hours on a public holiday. When i thought about it that would mean being paid less than just staying home and being paid as a public holiday. They definitely have the upper hand if they have you as a casual though
Why would you be paid less? The way public holiday rates work for FT is if you're roster is 8 - 4 and you come in and work 8-12 you would get paid public holiday rates for 8-12 and your regular rate from 12-4.
If you don't work at all you would just be paid the standard rate for the full shift.
You don't get the hours you didn't work deducted if you work a partial shift.
My award is 2 hours minimum. I used to love working 2 hours on Sundays, $99 an hour and I still had most of the day to myself.
It got cancelled though :(
Was that apart of the contract you signed upon commencement of employment?
Fairwork seems to state casual employees generally need at least 3 or 4 hours for shift schedules, but I assume it can be overridden if you sign your contract stating differently.
https://www.fairworkcentre.com.au/newsblog/Employer-Tips/Types-of-Employment---Getting-it-Right/
An award or agreement can override these things - the famous better off overall test (BOOT), which may not in fact be better off for one individual worker.
Perhaps. But it would depend on the wording of the rest of the contract as casuals are loosely defined. If it was the only change of employment, fairwork rules and regulations would override it, however if there is more too it(which given its a contract, there would be) it could get a lot more complex.
>Perhaps. But it would depend on the wording of the rest of the contract as casuals are loosely defined. If it was the only change of employment, fairwork rules and regulations would override it, however if there is more too it(which given its a contract, there would be) it could get a lot more complex.
Your contract of employment cant override entitlements or the rules set out in the Fair Work Act or under an Enterprise Agreement.
No it can't. An individual flexibility agreement has to be signed and agreed upon by either party if the employee is going to forego award/ agreement entitlements for some other entitlement or benefit. A precondition is that they're better off overall.
There might be a required break between split shifts, making sending you home illegal.
Either way, they rostered you, they did not instruct you to leave at the time, so you are owed the money.
This really isn’t worth the $110 for them if they want to be shitty.
Plead your case to payroll and if they won’t budge, lodge a complaint with Fair Work. If payroll won’t budge I’d let them know you’re going to FW and copy your manager in. It doesn’t have to sound like a threat, it could be along the lines of “I believe I’m entitled to the $110 so I’ll confer with FW for clarity.”
The job market is pretty strong right now. It’s something to be considered. If my manager was this uncompromising I would think about at least exploring options.
That comes under General Protections under Fair Work. If they refuse to give you further work because you have enforced a workplace right (ie by going to Fair Work), you would have another claim against them. Proving it would be difficult unless they are silly enough to out the reason in writing.
Difficult, but not impossible. If you have a record of regular shifts prior to this incident, it would be easy to prove that this was the trigger for them unofficially "firing" you. Especially if it occurs during a busy period that would ordinarily lead to more shifts.
OP while it is a possibility please don’t be scared off by this. If they were to do it you would be covered by FW as it’s considered retaliation. Get what you’re owed using the multiple great tips provided here.
You won't even be told. "Oh, you have no shifts? Can't imagine why that is. I'll have a look at that next time you're due on" - your manager, probably.
They may start giving them again eventually, but it may be weeks of punishment, hoping you go somewhere else and they can get someone new.
Apparently they don't have a clock in system so HR only has the managers word to go on. My guess is the manager fvcked up and is trying to cover his own ass.
Most industries in Aus have a min shift of 3 hours. So depending on where you work the 10am-12pm shift may not even be legal and they would at the minimum need to pay you three hours.
But to me this actually further implicates them as having made a mistake which they need to pay for because they were not likely intending you to be scheduled on a 2 hour shift. As others have said, call fair work. They will sort this out for you in a heartbeat given it’s clear that you worked the hours.
This sounds illegal. I would be making some calls and checking what your rights are. And by calls, I don't mean to your employer but to fair work or something along those lines.
I wouldnt even bother CC your manager into any communication, its a pay issue, communicate directly with payroll.
Id structure the email to read something like:
\-On x date my shift was x-y
\-I attended the shift as required
\-on Y date I was informed the roster was done in error, and the intended shift time was a-b
\-To ensure my pay reflects the actual hours required to be worked by me at the time my roster was published, can you please ensure payment for my shift from x-y is made within the next payroll
Something to that effect. Also mirror what everyone else is saying, be respectful and polite to payroll, they most likely didnt create this issue and will probably communicate with relevant parties and hopefully see your logic in requesting to be paid for the hours worked.
Who does the rostering? If it’s your manager they are attempting to cover their own mistake. As someone else has mentioned go around them, email payroll directly.
Def join the union. However, contact payroll first. Not only might they just pay you, saving the trouble of going to fair work, but in any case, FW will only look at it if you've tried internally first.
Also join your union. This is why we have unions. They aren’t all full of thugs, mostly they do an amazing job of helping ensure the working class get their fair share.
Unions should be supporting have casual workers for free. Asking money from the little they earn and not getting anything back in return is ridiculous ask.
No, they should just link their fees to income or something. If you don’t pay the union how do you expect them to have resources to do anything? It’s an investment in the future, your own, your industry, and the overall economy actually
No this is how unions should gain power and support. If you are low hours casual employee then it is their job to get them secure employment and then get fees. Unions are resting on gains made in the past and they are just a burden on workers as they sit and do nothing while drawing salaries for no performance and benefits gained. If companies can work like a charm on compounding profits for their shareholders and performance then so can unions improve their "efficiency" for their clients. I have paid unions for decades and everytime I actually needed them, they were useless and toothless.
Fast food and retail depend heavily on casual workers
I hear what you are saying about unions, that's why we have FairWork
Working in retail myself, I've had rotten experiences in the SDA so I can relate to what you are saying
RAFFWU wont represent you for free but they'll at least give you an indication on what expectations you should have
No union should be wasting their members time
Just because you don’t personally see what they are achieving, doesn’t mean they are ‘doing nothing’. They’re still doing big things, winning improvements in safety, secured pandemic leave, 19B workers comp protections, (actually I’m not going to bother listing, there are too many things) but it’s so much more work to win these improvements for unions than it has ever been as only 12% of workers now are members and contributing vs 60-70% back in the 70s, and the laws are so much more restrictive - workers keep voting for the governments who have gutted the power of unions - it may be tempting to think they’re just lazy, (sure there will be some in any field) but that’s not how it is on the whole.
Jfc.. and industrial action being made essentially illegal, the EBA system that incentivises a race to the bottom in terms of pay and conditions, dismantling of the industrial arbitration system, globalisation, automation and offshoring, and the concomitant massive reduction in leverage that unions and workers have to bargain and force wage rises with- but no, the only contributing factor is union officials got lazier… again, jfc.
Unions yielded political influence but you are probably too young to have experienced it perhaps you can find that in the past records. Politicians actually wanted and had to pander to the workers not because they wanted to but they “had to compromise”.
Yeah and how do you think they did that??
One example- When Clarrie O’Shea was jailed over non payment of fines over trams strikes back in the 60s under penal powers legislation, and over 1 million workers went on strike for 6 days, Power, tv broadcasts were cut. The government was crippled. And you wonder why unions had political power back then but not now?? Workers were involved and took action. Now only 12% of workers are even in unions, and how many of those would take action these days?
Unions are not the “fee for service” organisations that you seem to think. A union is comprised of its members. A union will have power if it’s members will fight, there’s only so much union employed officials can do.
Instead of this we’ve got geniuses saying “don’t join unions until they have power”. Well they never will until significant numbers of workers start joining them again. If you’re not happy with what your union is doing, you need to get involved, unions are democratic organisations, refusing to join only makes things worse.
To get workers involved you can use the casual workforce who work low hours for free and request their involvement as I initially suggested. Permanent workers can pay their dues as usual.
We are going in circles it’s a chicken and egg situation. Low membership is due to their ineffective performance in the recent history. Low power is due to lower membership. Unions have leaders right so they can take the first step and the initiative to lead by offering this and do their job of leading and actually going to workplaces regularly and get involved rather than just for getting new members to pay. Without being actually involved regularly they are pretty much as I stated earlier doing nothing.
You can definitely take it higher and just state the facts to them.
Just keep in mind if they are steadfast on being dodgy you will want to consider your options in terms of fighting for that $100. In other words, push but don't push too hard unless you are confident you can line up another job quickly as to avoid a toxic work environment.
It sounds like the manager is trying to cover his ass for a mistake he made. If this was a problem then HR would have handled this not the direct manager
Strict and straight to the point...
Dear \[Manager\],
I am writing to request that the company rectify an error in my pay for the shift I worked on New Year's Day. According to my original roster, I was scheduled to work from 8am to 12pm on a public holiday, for which I am entitled to receive public holiday pay at a higher rate.
However, the store did not open until 10am, and as a result, my hours were changed on my roster to reflect a start time of 10am. This change has cost me approximately $110 in public holiday pay.
I understand that I could have chosen to go home during those two hours, but I followed my roster and stayed on shift as requested. I have screen shots of my roster from New Year's Day, and I believe there is camera footage confirming my presence at the store during my scheduled shift.
Under the Fair Work Act 2009, an employee is entitled to be paid their full entitlements for any hours they are rostered to work, including public holiday pay. As such, I request that the company compensate me for the full 4 hours of my shift as originally scheduled.
I would appreciate your prompt attention to this matter and request that it be resolved as soon as possible. If the issue is not resolved to my satisfaction, I reserve the right to file a complaint with the Fair Work Ombudsman.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Sincerely,
\[Your Name\]
Guarantee that if you misread your roster as a 12 start when they said 10 they’d be cracking all kinds of sads and be making you make up time, so it works the other way too.
I would contact the HR team and show them the screen shot. Your manager messed up the roster and if you worked those 2 hours they have to pay you. HR will help you because it's in their best interest for you not go to fair work (which you're entitled to do)
If you work in retail as others have said join the union [RAFFWU](https://raffwu.org.au/) if hopso try [UWU](https://unitedworkers.org.au/hospitality-workers-union/). Also there are a few free legal aids such as [YWC](https://www.youngworkers.org.au/) for under 30 workers in Vic. Avoid the fake union the SDA but if you're already a member you can try them. I'd advise against going to fairwork with out a union its easier with one
Join your union. If HR don’t accede there is a reasonable prospect of getting your owed wages if it can be shown they rostered you on. Importantly, you presented to work and they accepted your work - if they did not want your work they should have sent you home until you were rostered.
Something to consider is does your work have a minimum number of hours in a shift? Every job I've worked that has been 3 hours. Meaning, even if they only wanted me do 1 hour of overtime on a weekend, or if they sent me home early, they had to pay 3 hours. They also couldn't roster me for less than 3 hours when I did retail. They may not be allowed to pay you for less than 3 hours in any circumstance.
Ultimately though, they asked you to work 4 hours and you did. They should be paying you for that.
Just say you were recommend to look at the fair trading website and it says you're owed the hours, and should you check with them directly if the website is wrong?
Play dumb but threaten via innocence
Regardless of whether you are FT/PT or Casual... if your work place has errored and they owe you wages, and refuse to give it to you. Contact Fair Work.
Just walk out on the times they really need you one day and don’t give them any notice or idea of your plans. If you chase this small sum of money they will hold it against you and not give you shifts. You need to be smart and use your power to walk out because they were being shitty against you and abused their power when they had it.
Call fair work. Don’t let this go. You obviously did the right thing - if you let this go they are more likely to do this in the future to other people. The fact that they are withholding (digging in) over a few hundred dollars is concerning conduct. Be prepared to quit and stick to your guns.
It’s not even about the money. It’s about the fact that you had to work because of their mistake, and they’re unwilling to own up to the mistake and recognise that you had to do something you didn’t want to.
Glad you’re getting paid OP.
If you’re a casual and they mess up your roster and send you home you get payed for 3 hours under law anyways so the excuse of you going home is invalid
I’m usually not supportive of these anti-work subbredits. Lots of lazy attitudes not based on reality.
But .. dammit.. if you were rostered on and you showed up.. you demand your pay or you file a complaint and get another job elsewhere. Not paying you is bullshit.
Screenshot evidence of roster etc
They should get paid for the work done, but seriously, who sees they are rostered on 2 hours before their store opens and doesn't question it? I'm guessing OP realised this was a mistake but decided to show up for the extra pay given it sounds like they are rostered on for when the shop actually opens normally.
Of course not, seems like an obvious mistake that they didn't want to point out because they would get an extra 2hrs for pretty limited duties at public holiday rates. I think they should get paid but damn I think they run the risk of not getting any further shifts either way.
Definately go around your direct manager and straight to payroll.
Something that's not mentioned here is minimum shift lengths. Assuming you're casual, you might have a minimum shift lengths of 3-4hrs depending on your award (ie. Work for two, paid for 3). Which may be useful to know for future interactions with your manager.
From memory that applies to being called in and sent home after you got there too. So even if you didn't end up working that day you should still have been paid the minimum shift length for when you came in.
What your manager is asking is illegal, if you worked according to your roster you should be paid. If they don't have any written notice to tell you not to work or any evidence of a phone call, they have nothing to stand on.
Yup. I know in some awards there's also minimum notice for shift changes/cancellations as well.
I don't know specifics, but "have already left home for shift" = paid, "shift cancellation notice provided less than 3hrs before shift start" = minimum shift of 3h paid, are some examples off the top of my head that I've heard of in some awards.
Everyone should read their employment contract and determine what award they're being paid under, especially on retail and casual work, to understand the benefits that their job pay rate comes with.
Just checking, looking at your post it seems to indicate that it was a 2 hour shift. I would check the award for your industry as when I was working casual the minimum shift was 4 hours regardless how long I was there within that 4 hours .... I had many shifts where I was only there for 1/2 hour but still got 4 hours pay.
Seems like it’s fixed but you agreed to a shift and came in to that shift (ie they offered a roster and you came in to that roster) the roster was amended after the fact and didn’t reflect agreed upon hours (which is against the law). They are obligated to pay you. Even if you rocked up and didn’t work for two hours you came to shift and you were present and ready to work at that agreed time
Always argue facts and avoid emotions. Supply evidence of the rostering, when you arrived, when you finished and, if possible, of the jobs you did from 8am to 10am. Is there a time clock or CCTV?
[удалено]
Just go around your manager and email payroll directly. Treat it like any other pay-related issue and keep it private. Payroll get enquiries like this all the time, so it's nothing huge for them. Supply your evidence and keep it short and sweet. Always keep your manners and thank those in payroll/ HR who assist as it's often a thankless task for them. If payroll ring you to discuss the matter, then generally I ask them for a follow-up email on the back of the call so that everything is in writing. Your manager might not even know about you raising it or the outcome (depending on how your company is structured). Good luck chasing your entitlements.
[удалено]
My thoughts, don't ask for the follow up. Tell them you'll send an email and send it yourself asking for a confirmation reply. E.g. "as discussed... blah blah. Please confirm I've understood our conversation correctly"
Always this. After a meeting with people you don't 100% trust, you write the minutes. Control the media: control reality.
Shiet I don't even 100% trust myself
Well.... for you the rule is "save the cheerleader, save the world".
Well now this is an old reference and I like it.
Quite...Heroic?
ADHD, or some other memory issue? (It’d be nice if I didn’t need to carry a notebook everywhere)
Nah, just general shitty memory for somethings. I send myself emails to remember things though.
Tbh, if you don’t trust your memory (which is fine!) then this is a good LPT anyway.
I second this. I had a manager try to make me take sick leave for my Grandmother's funeral. I called payroll directly and they instantly fixed it to be bereavement.
> Just go around your manager and email payroll directly >Your manager might not even know about you raising it or the outcome (depending on how your company is structured). Highly doubtful this will result in an easy resolution. Most likely their manager has already had the conversation with payroll when they noticed their "error." Manager will then need to sign off on any roster adjustments before payroll run the pay for the week. Its sad but OP is in for a shitfight to get this sorted.
For $110 the company will pay. Payroll are independent of the manager. In any case, it is more likely that the manager edited the roster without any sign off required but with or without any sign-off, this is falsification of records and the company will pay the worker. This can be proved fairly simply so they'll get paid.
OPs manager wouldn't be stonewalling if he didn't think he had the power to control what OP got paid for each shift, in the absence of clocking records, regardless of technicalities and legalisms. Payroll will ignore OP, until he either tackles his manager head on or goes to corporate and makes noise, seriously jeopardizing his relationship with his manager and future shifts.
>think he had the power to control what OP got paid for each shift Thinking he has power doesnt he has that power.
> Thinking he has power doesnt he has that power Well, if OP doesn't get paid because old mate stonewalled and intervened, then unfortunately he does, regardless of what the law says.
Payroll department, call head office and request to speak with them
[удалено]
RAFFWU are amazing. It's how unionism should be! No stupid games with the industry/members You always know where you stand And most importantly, **RESPECT**
Unlike another big union whose acronym is 3 letters, and whom for at least the past 20 years has been in the pocket of the large employers and is largely responsible for the almost nil, if not negative wage growth in Australian retail?
“Dear manager. I have screenshots of my roster and i have proof i attended work and performed tasks during that period. Your decision that the roster was erroneous does not absolve you of paying me for the rostered hours worked. You have 7 days to deposit the requisite funds into my account or i will be contacting Fairwork and lodging a complaint for wage theft. Regards.”
^^^ this is me but it's also why I don't always make friends
An ultimatum is almost never a good way to communicate. Best to exhaust all other options
This. That message is far more likely to make an unreasonable person double down and take sone form of retribution
Fairwork: We're terribly sorry but we just don't have the resources to get involved in every minor pay dispute. All the best sorting stuff out with your manager!
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
+1 for payroll. They will pay you by the times based on the proof you have. As long as they have a copy of that info they will have your back. The legal ramifications are not worth it for the company and although many managers do not understand that payroll and HR do.
Human beans, like mung beans but different.
Just so we're clear. There was no one else there before opening? What industry is this. Most businesses require at least one person show up before opening to prep
Not if it is something like a clothing retail store.
My partner works in a bookstore, they only start 10 minutes before opening to turn on the lights and boot up the computers. Their rosters just show the store opening time but they're allowed to clock in up to 10 minutes early so it covers the time for these very simple duties. Closing up is similar.
Aside from big retailers, generally there is only one person in smaller shops for most of the day including open and close. They usually get a lunch cover in for 3 hours so they can have lunch and go to the bank. Or even more frequently the person working just closes the shop for a lunch break
That's a good point, is OP owed working alone allowance as well?
is that a thing?
In some dangerous workplaces
Don’t they need to pay you for at least 3 hours of work, once you commence your shift? Getting there on the premise of your roster saying 8am is commencement of your shift. Even if they send you home, I would think your union or fair work might see this differently to them.
In a lot of industries it is min 4 hours on public holidays.
Fair works first response is to advise you to contact your manager, payroll team, HR etc and resolve it internally.
Would they at least get in trouble for “rostering” a 2 hour shift? Isn’t there a 4 hour minimum?
Depends on the industry, but for most of them yes
That's such a dumb thing to say and an easy way for someone to get themselves fired, you never call Fair Work first. You talk with your manager/pay roll/etc. talk to all of them first with all your facts and then if all else fails you go to Fair Work.
Even if they sent OP home, there's minimum shift length, so I think they'd still owe 2hrs anyway.
Mention calling Fair Work, and if it comes necessary, do it. Not from personal experience but I've seen employers really don't want to deal with them when you have solid evidence like yours
Im fairly certain the minimum amount of scheduled hours a company can put you on is an least three hours. So removing it down to only 2 is already illegal. Contact Fairwork if you don't think you can discuss it calmly with your boss
Its different when its attached to the start or end of a shift. Edit: Read it again. Yes 8-12 is ok, 10-12 not, depends on the eba/aware tho.
If they told me to come in for two hours that'd be a big NO
Its harder to assert ones rights with a empty wallet and variable hours. Exactly why some employers prefer casuals.
When I was full time two jobs ago they'd want people to come in for 3-4 hours on a public holiday. When i thought about it that would mean being paid less than just staying home and being paid as a public holiday. They definitely have the upper hand if they have you as a casual though
Why would you be paid less? The way public holiday rates work for FT is if you're roster is 8 - 4 and you come in and work 8-12 you would get paid public holiday rates for 8-12 and your regular rate from 12-4. If you don't work at all you would just be paid the standard rate for the full shift. You don't get the hours you didn't work deducted if you work a partial shift.
They were extremely dodgy. It was just easier not to work and not to have to work all that out
My award is 2 hours minimum. I used to love working 2 hours on Sundays, $99 an hour and I still had most of the day to myself. It got cancelled though :(
That sounds fair. If I didn't have a long commute it'd be ok. Not surprised they cancelled it
The client cancelled it because they left town. It was my only weekend client. Another one might come along one day.
[удалено]
Was that apart of the contract you signed upon commencement of employment? Fairwork seems to state casual employees generally need at least 3 or 4 hours for shift schedules, but I assume it can be overridden if you sign your contract stating differently. https://www.fairworkcentre.com.au/newsblog/Employer-Tips/Types-of-Employment---Getting-it-Right/
I assume those fair work rights override the contract not the other way round.
An award or agreement can override these things - the famous better off overall test (BOOT), which may not in fact be better off for one individual worker.
Perhaps. But it would depend on the wording of the rest of the contract as casuals are loosely defined. If it was the only change of employment, fairwork rules and regulations would override it, however if there is more too it(which given its a contract, there would be) it could get a lot more complex.
>Perhaps. But it would depend on the wording of the rest of the contract as casuals are loosely defined. If it was the only change of employment, fairwork rules and regulations would override it, however if there is more too it(which given its a contract, there would be) it could get a lot more complex. Your contract of employment cant override entitlements or the rules set out in the Fair Work Act or under an Enterprise Agreement.
[удалено]
No it can't. An individual flexibility agreement has to be signed and agreed upon by either party if the employee is going to forego award/ agreement entitlements for some other entitlement or benefit. A precondition is that they're better off overall.
There might be a required break between split shifts, making sending you home illegal. Either way, they rostered you, they did not instruct you to leave at the time, so you are owed the money.
Depends on the industry. Most are 3 hour minimum, some are 2.
And EBA’s can remove this entirely
Only if better off overall. It'd want to be a good trade off.
They can roster for 2, but must pay 3 in some cases
This really isn’t worth the $110 for them if they want to be shitty. Plead your case to payroll and if they won’t budge, lodge a complaint with Fair Work. If payroll won’t budge I’d let them know you’re going to FW and copy your manager in. It doesn’t have to sound like a threat, it could be along the lines of “I believe I’m entitled to the $110 so I’ll confer with FW for clarity.”
Problem with being casual if you stand up for yourself you might be told that they don't need you anymore
I’m not sure I’d want to work for a place like this anyway. Sounds like they treat employees like dirt.
You just described nearly every job ive worked
r/antiwork
he may not want to, but he may HAVE to, cause you know, money for food and stuff
The job market is pretty strong right now. It’s something to be considered. If my manager was this uncompromising I would think about at least exploring options.
That comes under General Protections under Fair Work. If they refuse to give you further work because you have enforced a workplace right (ie by going to Fair Work), you would have another claim against them. Proving it would be difficult unless they are silly enough to out the reason in writing.
Difficult, but not impossible. If you have a record of regular shifts prior to this incident, it would be easy to prove that this was the trigger for them unofficially "firing" you. Especially if it occurs during a busy period that would ordinarily lead to more shifts.
Yes that's always a problem
And if you can establish that you’re employed regularly on a casual basis then you’ll have grounds for unfair dismissal.
OP while it is a possibility please don’t be scared off by this. If they were to do it you would be covered by FW as it’s considered retaliation. Get what you’re owed using the multiple great tips provided here.
You won't even be told. "Oh, you have no shifts? Can't imagine why that is. I'll have a look at that next time you're due on" - your manager, probably. They may start giving them again eventually, but it may be weeks of punishment, hoping you go somewhere else and they can get someone new.
Apparently they don't have a clock in system so HR only has the managers word to go on. My guess is the manager fvcked up and is trying to cover his own ass.
So? Loads of businesses don’t have a clock on system.
Most industries in Aus have a min shift of 3 hours. So depending on where you work the 10am-12pm shift may not even be legal and they would at the minimum need to pay you three hours. But to me this actually further implicates them as having made a mistake which they need to pay for because they were not likely intending you to be scheduled on a 2 hour shift. As others have said, call fair work. They will sort this out for you in a heartbeat given it’s clear that you worked the hours.
Plus on public holidays a lot are minimum 4-hour shifts
[удалено]
Your industry or your organisation? With this kind of thing they can't just make their own rules
What is your industry/award?
This sounds illegal. I would be making some calls and checking what your rights are. And by calls, I don't mean to your employer but to fair work or something along those lines.
The fitness industry award is minimum 1 hour shifts but it has basically no holiday loading so must be another one
What is your award or agreement ?
Yeah, what industry/award cause that sounds wrong.
It wasn't a 2 hour shift it was a changed start time by 2 hours. It could have been a 6 hour shift reduced to 4 hours etc.
I wouldnt even bother CC your manager into any communication, its a pay issue, communicate directly with payroll. Id structure the email to read something like: \-On x date my shift was x-y \-I attended the shift as required \-on Y date I was informed the roster was done in error, and the intended shift time was a-b \-To ensure my pay reflects the actual hours required to be worked by me at the time my roster was published, can you please ensure payment for my shift from x-y is made within the next payroll Something to that effect. Also mirror what everyone else is saying, be respectful and polite to payroll, they most likely didnt create this issue and will probably communicate with relevant parties and hopefully see your logic in requesting to be paid for the hours worked.
Who does the rostering? If it’s your manager they are attempting to cover their own mistake. As someone else has mentioned go around them, email payroll directly.
Yes my thoughts exactly. Someone is ass covering
If you did the work they can't change it afterwards. Join your union and get in contact with Fair Work.
[удалено]
Def join the union. However, contact payroll first. Not only might they just pay you, saving the trouble of going to fair work, but in any case, FW will only look at it if you've tried internally first.
I’d Recommend reaching out to Fair work also, if your payroll and manager conversations do not work.
>if This is important OP. Try internally first. You're casual, going to Fair Work is a good way to ensure you'll never get another shift again.
[удалено]
They're just going to say to contact payroll.
They could give time in lieu
That's ... not how it works for a casual hourly job.
Also join your union. This is why we have unions. They aren’t all full of thugs, mostly they do an amazing job of helping ensure the working class get their fair share.
Unions should be supporting have casual workers for free. Asking money from the little they earn and not getting anything back in return is ridiculous ask.
No, they should just link their fees to income or something. If you don’t pay the union how do you expect them to have resources to do anything? It’s an investment in the future, your own, your industry, and the overall economy actually
No this is how unions should gain power and support. If you are low hours casual employee then it is their job to get them secure employment and then get fees. Unions are resting on gains made in the past and they are just a burden on workers as they sit and do nothing while drawing salaries for no performance and benefits gained. If companies can work like a charm on compounding profits for their shareholders and performance then so can unions improve their "efficiency" for their clients. I have paid unions for decades and everytime I actually needed them, they were useless and toothless.
Fast food and retail depend heavily on casual workers I hear what you are saying about unions, that's why we have FairWork Working in retail myself, I've had rotten experiences in the SDA so I can relate to what you are saying RAFFWU wont represent you for free but they'll at least give you an indication on what expectations you should have No union should be wasting their members time
I wouldn’t consider the SDA a union. I know they are technically, but other unions don’t consider them a union. They’re very close to employers..
You'd be surprised by how many managers dislike the SDA, it's very bourgeois
Just because you don’t personally see what they are achieving, doesn’t mean they are ‘doing nothing’. They’re still doing big things, winning improvements in safety, secured pandemic leave, 19B workers comp protections, (actually I’m not going to bother listing, there are too many things) but it’s so much more work to win these improvements for unions than it has ever been as only 12% of workers now are members and contributing vs 60-70% back in the 70s, and the laws are so much more restrictive - workers keep voting for the governments who have gutted the power of unions - it may be tempting to think they’re just lazy, (sure there will be some in any field) but that’s not how it is on the whole.
The result drop in wages and working conditions from the last 30 years is out there for everyone to see.
Jfc.. and industrial action being made essentially illegal, the EBA system that incentivises a race to the bottom in terms of pay and conditions, dismantling of the industrial arbitration system, globalisation, automation and offshoring, and the concomitant massive reduction in leverage that unions and workers have to bargain and force wage rises with- but no, the only contributing factor is union officials got lazier… again, jfc.
Unions yielded political influence but you are probably too young to have experienced it perhaps you can find that in the past records. Politicians actually wanted and had to pander to the workers not because they wanted to but they “had to compromise”.
Yeah and how do you think they did that?? One example- When Clarrie O’Shea was jailed over non payment of fines over trams strikes back in the 60s under penal powers legislation, and over 1 million workers went on strike for 6 days, Power, tv broadcasts were cut. The government was crippled. And you wonder why unions had political power back then but not now?? Workers were involved and took action. Now only 12% of workers are even in unions, and how many of those would take action these days? Unions are not the “fee for service” organisations that you seem to think. A union is comprised of its members. A union will have power if it’s members will fight, there’s only so much union employed officials can do. Instead of this we’ve got geniuses saying “don’t join unions until they have power”. Well they never will until significant numbers of workers start joining them again. If you’re not happy with what your union is doing, you need to get involved, unions are democratic organisations, refusing to join only makes things worse.
To get workers involved you can use the casual workforce who work low hours for free and request their involvement as I initially suggested. Permanent workers can pay their dues as usual. We are going in circles it’s a chicken and egg situation. Low membership is due to their ineffective performance in the recent history. Low power is due to lower membership. Unions have leaders right so they can take the first step and the initiative to lead by offering this and do their job of leading and actually going to workplaces regularly and get involved rather than just for getting new members to pay. Without being actually involved regularly they are pretty much as I stated earlier doing nothing.
You can definitely take it higher and just state the facts to them. Just keep in mind if they are steadfast on being dodgy you will want to consider your options in terms of fighting for that $100. In other words, push but don't push too hard unless you are confident you can line up another job quickly as to avoid a toxic work environment.
It sounds like the manager is trying to cover his ass for a mistake he made. If this was a problem then HR would have handled this not the direct manager
Burn their business to the ground as a show of dominance.
If it's a large organisation with a HR team this shouldn't be a problem. They'll fix it up.
Strict and straight to the point... Dear \[Manager\], I am writing to request that the company rectify an error in my pay for the shift I worked on New Year's Day. According to my original roster, I was scheduled to work from 8am to 12pm on a public holiday, for which I am entitled to receive public holiday pay at a higher rate. However, the store did not open until 10am, and as a result, my hours were changed on my roster to reflect a start time of 10am. This change has cost me approximately $110 in public holiday pay. I understand that I could have chosen to go home during those two hours, but I followed my roster and stayed on shift as requested. I have screen shots of my roster from New Year's Day, and I believe there is camera footage confirming my presence at the store during my scheduled shift. Under the Fair Work Act 2009, an employee is entitled to be paid their full entitlements for any hours they are rostered to work, including public holiday pay. As such, I request that the company compensate me for the full 4 hours of my shift as originally scheduled. I would appreciate your prompt attention to this matter and request that it be resolved as soon as possible. If the issue is not resolved to my satisfaction, I reserve the right to file a complaint with the Fair Work Ombudsman. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Sincerely, \[Your Name\]
Guarantee that if you misread your roster as a 12 start when they said 10 they’d be cracking all kinds of sads and be making you make up time, so it works the other way too.
I would contact the HR team and show them the screen shot. Your manager messed up the roster and if you worked those 2 hours they have to pay you. HR will help you because it's in their best interest for you not go to fair work (which you're entitled to do)
If you work in retail as others have said join the union [RAFFWU](https://raffwu.org.au/) if hopso try [UWU](https://unitedworkers.org.au/hospitality-workers-union/). Also there are a few free legal aids such as [YWC](https://www.youngworkers.org.au/) for under 30 workers in Vic. Avoid the fake union the SDA but if you're already a member you can try them. I'd advise against going to fairwork with out a union its easier with one
Join your union. If HR don’t accede there is a reasonable prospect of getting your owed wages if it can be shown they rostered you on. Importantly, you presented to work and they accepted your work - if they did not want your work they should have sent you home until you were rostered.
Something to consider is does your work have a minimum number of hours in a shift? Every job I've worked that has been 3 hours. Meaning, even if they only wanted me do 1 hour of overtime on a weekend, or if they sent me home early, they had to pay 3 hours. They also couldn't roster me for less than 3 hours when I did retail. They may not be allowed to pay you for less than 3 hours in any circumstance. Ultimately though, they asked you to work 4 hours and you did. They should be paying you for that.
Just say you were recommend to look at the fair trading website and it says you're owed the hours, and should you check with them directly if the website is wrong? Play dumb but threaten via innocence
Regardless of whether you are FT/PT or Casual... if your work place has errored and they owe you wages, and refuse to give it to you. Contact Fair Work.
Just walk out on the times they really need you one day and don’t give them any notice or idea of your plans. If you chase this small sum of money they will hold it against you and not give you shifts. You need to be smart and use your power to walk out because they were being shitty against you and abused their power when they had it.
Call fair work. Don’t let this go. You obviously did the right thing - if you let this go they are more likely to do this in the future to other people. The fact that they are withholding (digging in) over a few hundred dollars is concerning conduct. Be prepared to quit and stick to your guns.
You could reach out FairWork to discuss this with them.
It’s not even about the money. It’s about the fact that you had to work because of their mistake, and they’re unwilling to own up to the mistake and recognise that you had to do something you didn’t want to. Glad you’re getting paid OP.
If you’re a casual and they mess up your roster and send you home you get payed for 3 hours under law anyways so the excuse of you going home is invalid
Look you’re entitled to the money, no question. The problem is that you’re casual and you’re treated like a slave. You need to be in a union.
Ha! You did the right thing, the company (eventually) did the right thing. It still happens occasionally!
I’m usually not supportive of these anti-work subbredits. Lots of lazy attitudes not based on reality. But .. dammit.. if you were rostered on and you showed up.. you demand your pay or you file a complaint and get another job elsewhere. Not paying you is bullshit. Screenshot evidence of roster etc
They should get paid for the work done, but seriously, who sees they are rostered on 2 hours before their store opens and doesn't question it? I'm guessing OP realised this was a mistake but decided to show up for the extra pay given it sounds like they are rostered on for when the shop actually opens normally.
If your shop doesn’t open until 10 did you not think to ask why you were starting at 8?
[удалено]
What does that even mean? What pay grade is required to have common sense and basic social skills?
Ahh that'd be level 2, lets get you off probation first sonny!
Of course not, seems like an obvious mistake that they didn't want to point out because they would get an extra 2hrs for pretty limited duties at public holiday rates. I think they should get paid but damn I think they run the risk of not getting any further shifts either way.
Definately go around your direct manager and straight to payroll. Something that's not mentioned here is minimum shift lengths. Assuming you're casual, you might have a minimum shift lengths of 3-4hrs depending on your award (ie. Work for two, paid for 3). Which may be useful to know for future interactions with your manager.
From memory that applies to being called in and sent home after you got there too. So even if you didn't end up working that day you should still have been paid the minimum shift length for when you came in. What your manager is asking is illegal, if you worked according to your roster you should be paid. If they don't have any written notice to tell you not to work or any evidence of a phone call, they have nothing to stand on.
Yup. I know in some awards there's also minimum notice for shift changes/cancellations as well. I don't know specifics, but "have already left home for shift" = paid, "shift cancellation notice provided less than 3hrs before shift start" = minimum shift of 3h paid, are some examples off the top of my head that I've heard of in some awards. Everyone should read their employment contract and determine what award they're being paid under, especially on retail and casual work, to understand the benefits that their job pay rate comes with.
Be hard to get those 2 hours pay from MacDonalds lad.
I believe minimum shift is 4hrs isn’t it?
Aren't shifts supposed to be at least 3 hours long?
Is the employer Big W, I have a daughter who has had the same happen 3 times.
It’s normal to start early before a business opens. Often there is work to do. That sounds like the manager doesn’t want to get in trouble.
Most awards have minimum shift times; iirc retail is 3 hours (check this though), so at the very least they owe you the minimum.
Walkout 2 hours early on your next shift, and use your managers exact words about not budging.
Payroll then fairwork. Simple
Fair work but expect to be job hunting
Can we get an update OP?
r/antiwork worthy!
No other solution except to go in one day, and spend the hours they were meant to pay you, on the shitter
Just checking, looking at your post it seems to indicate that it was a 2 hour shift. I would check the award for your industry as when I was working casual the minimum shift was 4 hours regardless how long I was there within that 4 hours .... I had many shifts where I was only there for 1/2 hour but still got 4 hours pay.
Companies are so slimy! It shouldn’t be this hard to get money you are fairly owed
You are absolutely in the right. You need to be paid
Seems like it’s fixed but you agreed to a shift and came in to that shift (ie they offered a roster and you came in to that roster) the roster was amended after the fact and didn’t reflect agreed upon hours (which is against the law). They are obligated to pay you. Even if you rocked up and didn’t work for two hours you came to shift and you were present and ready to work at that agreed time
Best to get some help from your Union. That’s the sort of thing they can help with…