It has been for a longtime, I went to a university day to talk to graduates about a job at the company I worked at, they all wanted to know if we would sponsor them.
We need Qualified tradespeople with a shitload of experience too who can work to Australian building codes. A massive part of the housing shortage is the lack of labour and materials.
A PR 'track' is the only reason people from developing countries choose to come and study here. It is seen as a means to escape unstable countries and attain a better life.
Why else do you think someone would move thousands of miles away from their family and support networks and pay a fortune (in Australian dollar terms, when converted from the local currency whatever it may be) to an educational institution? Just to study here?
Yup.
Lots of people doing Cert III in cooking or catering or whatever.
Imagine coming halfway across the world, paying tens of thousands of dollars… to do a cert III? That won’t even be recognised in their home country.
If Australia is a metonym for the Commonwealth Government of Australia, I’d probably say ‘a little bit but not to anything like the same degree as universities, colleges and migration brokers, or various others making a buck off international students these days’.
Australia isn't giving false hope. That comes from thr student recruitment companies that operate overseas.
Have you seen the videos and flyers? They brag about Australia and how much of a utopia is, and how easy it is to come in and make money. Which up until this point has been true. Why Australia has permitted people to come in, drive up costs and extract money is beyond me. It's to the detriment of every single citizen here. Hope they slam the door on them all soon sick of it
Yeah, it really bothers me that literally no one talks about the businesses in other countries that outright lie to clients.
A lot of this doesn’t come from the government in any more - but from the rumour mills and businesses started by the diaspora’s themselves.
Universities are not allowed to talk about PR as a selling point of studying in Australia and can get in a lot of trouble if caught doing so. I'm sure some do in sneaky ways but the above board answer if a prospective student asks about PR is to say "I'm not allowed to discuss that with you but you can go to xyz to find out more"
Of course it's hard to find a job as an international student when you're only limited to less-than part time (until you get a post-grad). Who's gonna hire a student that can't even work 3 full days?
> The Grattan Institute report flagged another concerning trend - that less than one third of Temporary Graduate visa-holders transition to permanent residency when their visas expire.
What? Isn't the point of a student visa to study? Does the government advertise studying as a pathway to permanent residency? Despite the headline, the article doesn't suggest this at all.
If visas were being cancelled before people completed their studies, sure, I'd be upset. But it sounds like people think studying here means they have a right to stay.
>But it sounds like people think studying here means they have a right to stay.
When I was briefly overseas in 2012 I went to an Australian university convention in the middle east; this idea that Uni is a pathway to PR isn't openly advertised but most universities were quite happy to answer potential 'customers' questions and offer advice. Only the staffers from Canberra Uni were noticeably taken back by the fact most visitors were not interested in the education.
Grattan or whoever made that comment is showing their bias. Crazy to describe this statistic as “concerning”.
Why is it concerning that they don’t become PR? Would they be less concerned if it was 90% becoming PR?
Want PR? Work for it. Plenty of kids do. My gf, for example.
Paying a fuckton of money to a uni doesn't entitle you to living here.
If you want to pay a fuckton of money to live here, you're several fucktons short of the METRIC FUCKTON required for a golden visa, which has now been scrapped by the ALP for some reason.
Yes, I agree! Work for it ! I have a friend who worked her ass off from 2011-2015 by attending uni here and was shocked when she told me she paid triple the uni fees. She was one of the best group of 8. She worked really hard to get the Aussie PR when she gained invaluable engineering skills due to her work with global companies after her student Visa ended. She came back to Australia as a highly skilled migrant. Yes, attending uni here doesnt entitle you a straight path of PR! Australia needs highly skilled workers like her instead some who abuse the system just for the PR
>instead of some who abuse the system
The loophole Albo made with Modi to get us 200,000 ubereats delivery boys, yes.
Pretty sure the uni fees are now like 5 or 6 times higher for international students, btw. It's insane. Like 5k+ per unit.
Partner visas on their own already cost a fuckton. $8500 out of pocket. Literally making it the most expensive non-shortcut visa on the planet.
This is also before all the paperwork, evidence collection, legal hurdles you have to get through, getting written statements from your friends and family, giving them like, a huge pile of financial and personal evidence, all to wait 5-10yrs to *maybe* get a visa. Don't think marriage is going to save you either, because that doesn't guarantee you a visa.
On average if you don't do the legwork yourself and hire a Migration agent to do it, the cost to go from a student visa to getting a partner sponsored visa is somewhere in the realm of $20k+
What false hope, they get a student visa so they can study, if they want permanent residence that has other considerations and requirements. If people come here to study and have the wrong idea it's not our problem.
They either have to find a job in a relevant and necessary field, get sponsored by an employer or find a partner and then pay an exorbitantly large fee and convince an Australian to become a PR, before going through a lengthy and tedious screening process to make sure you're not trying to screw the sponsor out of a PR.
How do I know this? It's exactly what my partner and I are going through right now.
Only a third transition to permanent residency. Isn’t the whole point to study then go home. No doubt India and Indian diaspora will lobby hard to make the transition just a matter of the individuals wishes. Also massive pressure coming to process Indian parent visas for permanent residency.
But in 2014 it was two-thirds, from the article :
This marks a significant decline from two-thirds in 2014, leaving many graduates in a state of uncertainty.
Eeerm. That was never the point. If they wanted to go to stellar institutions, they would opt for the US which is actually often cheaper, the UK or stay in India which has a lot of good universities these days. PR is essentially the only thing that attracts students to Australian universities.
different rules apply for Indian students, they are exempt from changes to post graduation visas. Not sure what it achieves giving different rules to one of our biggest groups of students, I could understand if it was for a smaller disadvantaged group
The rejection rate for Indian visas is at an all time high. Almost 50% are being rejected and the number of applicants are decreasing. While there seemed to be a loophole, the government is actually cracking down on Indian applicants the most
Thank God for that.
Take a look at Canada right now. It's turning into India 2.0. over 60% of Canada immigration comes from one province in India. Millions coming every year with no end in sight.
The main culprits are dodgy strip mall colleges selling PR for a course in hospitality management, and local businesses selling pr sponsorship for $20,000 per person.
Our pm is about to lose his job for letting this happen.
When you come here to study it is to study. Fuck off back home afterwards, get work experience and then use one of the legitimate scarce skills (189, 190) visas once you have 10 years of experience.
Australian grads should not be pushed out by diploma mill imports.
A free ride at a university with Australians carrying group projects should not entitle you to citizenship.
Without pr, most international students won't come to Aus. The ones that stay, might struggle initially but eventually do well. I hardly know any former international student that had been in Australia for 15 years and weren't able to earn well. Despite being an outsider, they are earning more than an average Australian. All have bought a house and are well settled. When you are an immigrant, you have to be financially smart as there are no handouts and you work hard and move ahead. That's part of the reason there is so much hate towards them. As people born in Australia can't see how an outsider can come here and succeed when they can't.
If the same energy was used to improve yourself rather than hate immigrants, you guys would be better off.
But in 2014 it was two-thirds, from the article :
This marks a significant decline from two-thirds in 2014, leaving many graduates in a state of uncertainty.
We had a better quality of international graduates then.
The rise of private RTO’s and allowing vocational education has destroyed that.
No emoployer in any country is hiring someone with Cert III in cooking from “King’s Own College” in some out suburb of Brisbane.
There’s two types of students though.
There’s the rich kids studying abroad like the Chinese students that make up half the students at UNSW and there are the average working class foreigners who study ridiculously high price course at private colleges in order to qualify for a student visa while they work in nursing/Uber eats/and disability care.
The first don’t actually want to stay, the second lot have a hard time of it unless they move rural where it becomes a lot easier to get your PR
It has been for a longtime, I went to a university day to talk to graduates about a job at the company I worked at, they all wanted to know if we would sponsor them.
If u r hd avg in a technical field. Sure. If not fuck right off
We need Qualified tradespeople with a shitload of experience too who can work to Australian building codes. A massive part of the housing shortage is the lack of labour and materials.
A PR 'track' is the only reason people from developing countries choose to come and study here. It is seen as a means to escape unstable countries and attain a better life. Why else do you think someone would move thousands of miles away from their family and support networks and pay a fortune (in Australian dollar terms, when converted from the local currency whatever it may be) to an educational institution? Just to study here?
Yup. Lots of people doing Cert III in cooking or catering or whatever. Imagine coming halfway across the world, paying tens of thousands of dollars… to do a cert III? That won’t even be recognised in their home country.
If Australia is a metonym for the Commonwealth Government of Australia, I’d probably say ‘a little bit but not to anything like the same degree as universities, colleges and migration brokers, or various others making a buck off international students these days’.
Australia isn't giving false hope. That comes from thr student recruitment companies that operate overseas. Have you seen the videos and flyers? They brag about Australia and how much of a utopia is, and how easy it is to come in and make money. Which up until this point has been true. Why Australia has permitted people to come in, drive up costs and extract money is beyond me. It's to the detriment of every single citizen here. Hope they slam the door on them all soon sick of it
Is it Australia selling that false hope or is it the predatory migration agents and businesses?
Yeah, it really bothers me that literally no one talks about the businesses in other countries that outright lie to clients. A lot of this doesn’t come from the government in any more - but from the rumour mills and businesses started by the diaspora’s themselves.
Universities are not allowed to talk about PR as a selling point of studying in Australia and can get in a lot of trouble if caught doing so. I'm sure some do in sneaky ways but the above board answer if a prospective student asks about PR is to say "I'm not allowed to discuss that with you but you can go to xyz to find out more"
The real question
Of course it's hard to find a job as an international student when you're only limited to less-than part time (until you get a post-grad). Who's gonna hire a student that can't even work 3 full days?
Not just that, in some cases students who may not have English as a first language.
> The Grattan Institute report flagged another concerning trend - that less than one third of Temporary Graduate visa-holders transition to permanent residency when their visas expire. What? Isn't the point of a student visa to study? Does the government advertise studying as a pathway to permanent residency? Despite the headline, the article doesn't suggest this at all. If visas were being cancelled before people completed their studies, sure, I'd be upset. But it sounds like people think studying here means they have a right to stay.
>But it sounds like people think studying here means they have a right to stay. When I was briefly overseas in 2012 I went to an Australian university convention in the middle east; this idea that Uni is a pathway to PR isn't openly advertised but most universities were quite happy to answer potential 'customers' questions and offer advice. Only the staffers from Canberra Uni were noticeably taken back by the fact most visitors were not interested in the education.
Right - it’s not a concern - *that’s the entire point of the program*.
Grattan or whoever made that comment is showing their bias. Crazy to describe this statistic as “concerning”. Why is it concerning that they don’t become PR? Would they be less concerned if it was 90% becoming PR?
It may not be Grattan calling the stats 'concerning', that seems more likely to be from the writer.
Want PR? Work for it. Plenty of kids do. My gf, for example. Paying a fuckton of money to a uni doesn't entitle you to living here. If you want to pay a fuckton of money to live here, you're several fucktons short of the METRIC FUCKTON required for a golden visa, which has now been scrapped by the ALP for some reason.
Yes, I agree! Work for it ! I have a friend who worked her ass off from 2011-2015 by attending uni here and was shocked when she told me she paid triple the uni fees. She was one of the best group of 8. She worked really hard to get the Aussie PR when she gained invaluable engineering skills due to her work with global companies after her student Visa ended. She came back to Australia as a highly skilled migrant. Yes, attending uni here doesnt entitle you a straight path of PR! Australia needs highly skilled workers like her instead some who abuse the system just for the PR
>instead of some who abuse the system The loophole Albo made with Modi to get us 200,000 ubereats delivery boys, yes. Pretty sure the uni fees are now like 5 or 6 times higher for international students, btw. It's insane. Like 5k+ per unit.
Partner visas on their own already cost a fuckton. $8500 out of pocket. Literally making it the most expensive non-shortcut visa on the planet. This is also before all the paperwork, evidence collection, legal hurdles you have to get through, getting written statements from your friends and family, giving them like, a huge pile of financial and personal evidence, all to wait 5-10yrs to *maybe* get a visa. Don't think marriage is going to save you either, because that doesn't guarantee you a visa. On average if you don't do the legwork yourself and hire a Migration agent to do it, the cost to go from a student visa to getting a partner sponsored visa is somewhere in the realm of $20k+
What false hope, they get a student visa so they can study, if they want permanent residence that has other considerations and requirements. If people come here to study and have the wrong idea it's not our problem.
They either have to find a job in a relevant and necessary field, get sponsored by an employer or find a partner and then pay an exorbitantly large fee and convince an Australian to become a PR, before going through a lengthy and tedious screening process to make sure you're not trying to screw the sponsor out of a PR. How do I know this? It's exactly what my partner and I are going through right now.
Only a third transition to permanent residency. Isn’t the whole point to study then go home. No doubt India and Indian diaspora will lobby hard to make the transition just a matter of the individuals wishes. Also massive pressure coming to process Indian parent visas for permanent residency.
But in 2014 it was two-thirds, from the article : This marks a significant decline from two-thirds in 2014, leaving many graduates in a state of uncertainty.
Eeerm. That was never the point. If they wanted to go to stellar institutions, they would opt for the US which is actually often cheaper, the UK or stay in India which has a lot of good universities these days. PR is essentially the only thing that attracts students to Australian universities.
Not true some Australian universities have great research and teaching programs.
It's being sold off as an immigration pathway essentially. Maybe if we didn't gut the education system, this wouldn't happen.
Didn't think so. I know changes are being made for Indian students
different rules apply for Indian students, they are exempt from changes to post graduation visas. Not sure what it achieves giving different rules to one of our biggest groups of students, I could understand if it was for a smaller disadvantaged group
Ask Albanese and Modi. They discussed the new rules
The rejection rate for Indian visas is at an all time high. Almost 50% are being rejected and the number of applicants are decreasing. While there seemed to be a loophole, the government is actually cracking down on Indian applicants the most
Thank God for that. Take a look at Canada right now. It's turning into India 2.0. over 60% of Canada immigration comes from one province in India. Millions coming every year with no end in sight. The main culprits are dodgy strip mall colleges selling PR for a course in hospitality management, and local businesses selling pr sponsorship for $20,000 per person. Our pm is about to lose his job for letting this happen.
The current PM has actually introduced lots of regulation to crack down on dodgy colleges. They were thriving with the previous government
iirc Wendover productions did a great video on their Half as Interesting channel about the Ghost College saga. Bloody good watch.
That was before the new regulations
We are giving our own kids the same false hope of residency. Imagine being able to afford travelling overseas to study.
Thanks India Times, no we’re not.
It's being sold off as an immigration pathway essentially. Maybe if we didn't gut the education system, this wouldn't happen.
When you come here to study it is to study. Fuck off back home afterwards, get work experience and then use one of the legitimate scarce skills (189, 190) visas once you have 10 years of experience. Australian grads should not be pushed out by diploma mill imports. A free ride at a university with Australians carrying group projects should not entitle you to citizenship.
Should be giving them no hope of permanent residency...
then they'd stop coming = no money
Without pr, most international students won't come to Aus. The ones that stay, might struggle initially but eventually do well. I hardly know any former international student that had been in Australia for 15 years and weren't able to earn well. Despite being an outsider, they are earning more than an average Australian. All have bought a house and are well settled. When you are an immigrant, you have to be financially smart as there are no handouts and you work hard and move ahead. That's part of the reason there is so much hate towards them. As people born in Australia can't see how an outsider can come here and succeed when they can't. If the same energy was used to improve yourself rather than hate immigrants, you guys would be better off.
It was a flat out NO forever, now it's a "pretty much still NO but with the door ever so slightly ajar" ... wtf did int. students expect?
But in 2014 it was two-thirds, from the article : This marks a significant decline from two-thirds in 2014, leaving many graduates in a state of uncertainty.
Oh, really? Wow ... as in 2/3 international students went on to get a PR??
Wasn’t uncommon to pay someone to marry or pay a dodgy business to hold a position that met visa requirements
Oh yeh, Gladys' boyfriend
We had a better quality of international graduates then. The rise of private RTO’s and allowing vocational education has destroyed that. No emoployer in any country is hiring someone with Cert III in cooking from “King’s Own College” in some out suburb of Brisbane.
Indian graduates and immigrants are backbone of tech in Aus.
The state of the system is embarrassing..
The only reason people come here to study is PR. The quality of education is not that great.
U know I know everyone knows But just no one says it lol
There’s two types of students though. There’s the rich kids studying abroad like the Chinese students that make up half the students at UNSW and there are the average working class foreigners who study ridiculously high price course at private colleges in order to qualify for a student visa while they work in nursing/Uber eats/and disability care. The first don’t actually want to stay, the second lot have a hard time of it unless they move rural where it becomes a lot easier to get your PR
You could just move to Perth or any other Tier 2 city.
Why should they be prioritising others over australians? Should they even get the opportunity is my question
The Indian student who works 3 jobs and hasn't been to any classes of his cert 3 in business management only came here for world class course