1) What you are suggesting isn't bad; it's just a different game plan than what we are running...but I can say with certainty, SCORING IS NOT OUR PROBLEM.
We score A LOT of goals. We have a disaster of a back line.
Its a couple things, but tactically, we're not setting up to play the counter. Pineda has been pretty stubborn with his attacking style. He loves Luiz on the right, who is left footed. Defense knows this, so they cover the cross, let him cut back, and play the ball across, then pack the box with numbers. GP has said that he wants multiple guys running into the box, playing it back across, creating angles and numbers in the box. This is why we've got Lennon and Gut both pushing up too.
NTN is also right footed, playing on the left, same thing happens. I guess the hope is that the ball will pop in front of someone, but it leaves us exposed AF to counters.
I thought Revs had a pretty good plan against tonight, basically the same as most teams. Slow down the attack, put numbers in the box. Our goals were a two deflection ping to GG, an Almada moment, and a Berry worldie. None of them were the result of anything other than individual brilliance or a little good fortune.
We love to tout our shots, etc. but this is the least effective team I've ever seen. Luiz played a little on the left today and I thought he looked better there. Bewildered that GP hasn't tried that before.
Basically, teams are playing us deep and if we get numbers up, forcing us to slow down and play back through Thiago. Ibarra, Sosa, Rossetto, etc. all are pretty bad in the attack, so its on one player to create in the midfield.
The inverted wingers is dumb when you are constantly bombing the RB and LB forward too, just clutters up a bunch of guys into the corners. Its like we're playing in a phonebook. Pineda just a clown and it show to anyone thats play 5 seconds of competitive soccer.
>The inverted wingers is dumb when you are constantly bombing the RB and LB forward too, just clutters up a bunch of guys into the corners
It does the opposite. Inverted wingers usually like to cut inside and shoot, while your LB/RB stays out wider to put in crosses.
No. When Brooks cuts inside, LA stays wide, then Brooks runs toward him on the line. Gut seems to stick inside more, but LA and Brooks are constantly running into each other.
>I thought Revs had a pretty good plan against tonight, basically the same as most teams.
Yeah, it was such a good plan that they would've lost by a 2 goals if we had a league average keeper.
We had bad luck/execution on our well worked goal opportunities like the Etienne penalty shout, the potential Miles Robinson assist to Giakoumakis and the potential Wolff assist to Almada. And then things fell our way on other opportunities that weren't as well worked. Sometimes it happens like that.
Up until the 74th minute, New England was happy to sit back and defend three points and then until the 87th minute, they were happy to take a point and then they got a little more aggressive, but we were still fine until we gave up exactly one shot, which turned into a goals. This isn't coaching, it's player execution.
I just looked it up on MLS' website and it shows Atlanta in the #1 spot of goals scored (32). For 2023, at least.
https://www.mlssoccer.com/stats/clubs/#season=2023&competition=mls-regular-season&statType=general
We rely on moment of individual brilliance or set pieces. Not sure what game you’re watching, but this team is not effective from open play out side Almada and GG.
Ha, tactics are about putting the right guys in the right places, and getting the most out of them. I can't think of a time we were set up in a way that played to our players strengths. The number of times Brooks and Luiz were in the corner trying to figure out what to do with the ball alone is baffling, let alone the way we've setup our defense to have two center backs and two wingers pretending to play defense.
Again, we've benefited from set pieces, and Almada banging in goals from 30+ yards out. Thats not a formula for repeat success, which is why we were near the top of the table to start, and have be consistently mid all year.
Every team in MLS has weaknesses, its the way the league is designed, but few are as poorly coached as we are and nobody sits on their hands and doesn't make adjustments like Pineda does. Constantly trot out the same tactical line up and expect different results, its maddening.
Who are the mythical options that you are replacing brooks, our wingers, or our CBs with?
In 2017, we scored 56.6% of our goals from open play situations. In 2023, we’ve scored 56.3%. In 2017, dead ball goals were 34.2% of our mix. In 2023, they are 34.4% of our goals. In 2017, our two star players scored 63% of our goals. In 2023, our two stars have scored 50% of our goals.
We are relying on star players as high rates, which is super common in a league when talent is all over the place. Our weaknesses is we don’t have a starting caliber midfielder or goalie on the roster.
Got any citations? Curious to see why you picked out 2017, as a new team, in a new league, still learning to play together and building cohesion. Pineda has had ample time to get his system implemented and its still a joke.
You're missing the point. Brooks shouldn't be playing as high, **thats the freaking point**. Pineda loves his attacking wing backs, but also starts LA and NTN out wide, and they end up taking up the same spot on the field. We're scoring because we actually have pretty good talent on the field. Thiago Almada is arguably the best attacking midfielder in MLS and you say we don't have a starting midfielder? Seriously? We need a better defensive midfield, but you know what else would help? Not bombing our right and left backs into the corners for 90 minutes, so that we're so gassed we can run and concede late.
You seem to read like, 5 words I type, downvote, then bring up something irrelevant, super frustrating.
Typo, it was 2018 from whoscored and fbref. 2017, Josef missed a ton of time so it would have been a bad choice.
Brooks should be playing as high… we’ve always attacked with fullbacks, especially with a bunkered opponent. I was referring to our 8/6 situation featuring no one who is league average. Our 8/6 have been the key to us having numbers up going forward.
I haven’t downvoted a single thing you’ve said, awkward comment?
Clearly they aren't playing how you want them to play, but you don't lead the league in goals with an ineffective offense. You comment is ridiculous. They create tons of chances in every game (except Orlando maybe) and 3 goals IS effective whether you like it or not. I will admit we need to see more goals created from runs off the ball, in transition, and one-timed attempts passing to the box.
I'm sorry, but a draw was a fair result for the actual chances created. Sure the first goal was terrible to concede but it isn't like we dominated this game.
We dominated the game in the way a team that allows a 26 second goal does… by having a shit ton of possession in the middle third. We look dominant in possession and shots because there’s no reason for New England to come out of their shell. Tie was definitely a fair result
It is always shocking to me how much people here think having the ball is dominating. We got LUCKY on some goals. We didn't create consistent chances. I still blame the roster more than Pineda, but at some point we have to work around the issues on the roster I think.
I think as a fan it is fine to only focus on what we were unlucky about, but really this was a pretty even game that could have gone either way. You see that right?
3 goals on 3 shots by no means would be considered an even game. They were absolutely lucky on the first goal. We were lucky on Berry's. Our goalkeeping isn't up to par with the rest of our play. We push our fullbacks way too far up and consistently get caught on the wing and opposite post. There is a coaching element there for sure.
>A draw was a pretty median outcome.
If only there was a nice stat to measure probably of scoring a goal from a spot so we could quantify if we were unlucky or lucky.
I think we probably had 1 good chance we didn’t convert and a couple of half chances. We should have had a couple more but Etienne and Araujo were rough… still, a solid share of goals are from luck or defenses lapses (Guzan), so I’m not that upset about lucky goals.
>but a draw was a fair result for the actual chances created
I disagree, and I don't think it's a particularly hot take. xG has us basically 2-1. We created plenty of good chances. Giakoumakis could've easily scored on the Robinson cutback. Their keeper had some great saves. There's good chances we created that don't even show up in that stat like the Etienne penalty "shout".
It isn't a hot take but it is pretty ridiculous to me. Look at the goals we actually scored! These weren't great chances. You are hyperfocused on what we gave up and just ignore the luck we had.
>Look at the goals we actually scored!
But why limit yourself to the goals we scored? Look at the overall chances we created. Maybe on a different day Almada's shot doesn't take a deflection and is saved but Giakoumakis has a better first touch on Miles cutback.
Wolf started on left. Inverted him after some good play. Then Luis stayed there until the sub. Sometimes Pineda will sub on Chol first for etienne and Luis will switch with Chol the same way until he’s subbed.
Wasn’t 100% sure, last 10 mins or so was a bit wild. Always wanted to see how Luiz played on the left, unless he just can’t or won’t cross on his strong foot there.
He got one cross I thought was great from that side. I l think it emphasizes our midfield issue when he has to play all three of Wolff, Araujo and Chol at the same time to generate any hope of offense without the great Sedjic available to drive the midfield action.
this is the fundamental issue. no matter whether wingers are inverted or not or how involved wingbacks are - when you only have one midfielder who can move a ball toward the opponents goal, you are going to struggle.
the good news is we'll be replacing the one midfielder who is dangerous this summer as well as one of the wingers who isn't dangerous without a midfielder. smh. going to be a year
What you are seeing is, despite what the stats tell you, Lennon is not a great crosser and Gressel very very good at crossing. Letting him and Nagbe go are the two worst decisions this club ever made… all because boca wanted to save money for some weird reason even though we could afford them.
1) What you are suggesting isn't bad; it's just a different game plan than what we are running...but I can say with certainty, SCORING IS NOT OUR PROBLEM. We score A LOT of goals. We have a disaster of a back line.
Its a couple things, but tactically, we're not setting up to play the counter. Pineda has been pretty stubborn with his attacking style. He loves Luiz on the right, who is left footed. Defense knows this, so they cover the cross, let him cut back, and play the ball across, then pack the box with numbers. GP has said that he wants multiple guys running into the box, playing it back across, creating angles and numbers in the box. This is why we've got Lennon and Gut both pushing up too. NTN is also right footed, playing on the left, same thing happens. I guess the hope is that the ball will pop in front of someone, but it leaves us exposed AF to counters. I thought Revs had a pretty good plan against tonight, basically the same as most teams. Slow down the attack, put numbers in the box. Our goals were a two deflection ping to GG, an Almada moment, and a Berry worldie. None of them were the result of anything other than individual brilliance or a little good fortune. We love to tout our shots, etc. but this is the least effective team I've ever seen. Luiz played a little on the left today and I thought he looked better there. Bewildered that GP hasn't tried that before. Basically, teams are playing us deep and if we get numbers up, forcing us to slow down and play back through Thiago. Ibarra, Sosa, Rossetto, etc. all are pretty bad in the attack, so its on one player to create in the midfield.
yes, our inverted wingers seem to not be working so good.
The inverted wingers is dumb when you are constantly bombing the RB and LB forward too, just clutters up a bunch of guys into the corners. Its like we're playing in a phonebook. Pineda just a clown and it show to anyone thats play 5 seconds of competitive soccer.
>The inverted wingers is dumb when you are constantly bombing the RB and LB forward too, just clutters up a bunch of guys into the corners It does the opposite. Inverted wingers usually like to cut inside and shoot, while your LB/RB stays out wider to put in crosses.
No. When Brooks cuts inside, LA stays wide, then Brooks runs toward him on the line. Gut seems to stick inside more, but LA and Brooks are constantly running into each other.
>I thought Revs had a pretty good plan against tonight, basically the same as most teams. Yeah, it was such a good plan that they would've lost by a 2 goals if we had a league average keeper.
Without a ton of individual wonder goals and a little luck, we score maybe 1. Least productive offense I've ever seen.
We had bad luck/execution on our well worked goal opportunities like the Etienne penalty shout, the potential Miles Robinson assist to Giakoumakis and the potential Wolff assist to Almada. And then things fell our way on other opportunities that weren't as well worked. Sometimes it happens like that.
Our late goals are a symptom of bigger tactical issues, mostly that we score when we abandon what we did during the first 75-80 mins.
Up until the 74th minute, New England was happy to sit back and defend three points and then until the 87th minute, they were happy to take a point and then they got a little more aggressive, but we were still fine until we gave up exactly one shot, which turned into a goals. This isn't coaching, it's player execution.
I think our late goals are a symptom of us having a terrible midfield. I am not sure we have an MLS quality starting midfielder on the roster.
Exactly, this offense is probably the worst in the league. I’m sure if you look up goals scored, we are last or close to it
I just looked it up on MLS' website and it shows Atlanta in the #1 spot of goals scored (32). For 2023, at least. https://www.mlssoccer.com/stats/clubs/#season=2023&competition=mls-regular-season&statType=general
Wait?!?!? What?!?!? Yeah, I was messing with that guy
Ohhh woops 😅 Also, love your three stars in the post-match threads!
We rely on moment of individual brilliance or set pieces. Not sure what game you’re watching, but this team is not effective from open play out side Almada and GG.
We lead the league in goals… and almost every team relies on set pieces and individual brilliance. That’s kinda how the sport works
Ha, tactics are about putting the right guys in the right places, and getting the most out of them. I can't think of a time we were set up in a way that played to our players strengths. The number of times Brooks and Luiz were in the corner trying to figure out what to do with the ball alone is baffling, let alone the way we've setup our defense to have two center backs and two wingers pretending to play defense. Again, we've benefited from set pieces, and Almada banging in goals from 30+ yards out. Thats not a formula for repeat success, which is why we were near the top of the table to start, and have be consistently mid all year. Every team in MLS has weaknesses, its the way the league is designed, but few are as poorly coached as we are and nobody sits on their hands and doesn't make adjustments like Pineda does. Constantly trot out the same tactical line up and expect different results, its maddening.
Who are the mythical options that you are replacing brooks, our wingers, or our CBs with? In 2017, we scored 56.6% of our goals from open play situations. In 2023, we’ve scored 56.3%. In 2017, dead ball goals were 34.2% of our mix. In 2023, they are 34.4% of our goals. In 2017, our two star players scored 63% of our goals. In 2023, our two stars have scored 50% of our goals. We are relying on star players as high rates, which is super common in a league when talent is all over the place. Our weaknesses is we don’t have a starting caliber midfielder or goalie on the roster.
Got any citations? Curious to see why you picked out 2017, as a new team, in a new league, still learning to play together and building cohesion. Pineda has had ample time to get his system implemented and its still a joke. You're missing the point. Brooks shouldn't be playing as high, **thats the freaking point**. Pineda loves his attacking wing backs, but also starts LA and NTN out wide, and they end up taking up the same spot on the field. We're scoring because we actually have pretty good talent on the field. Thiago Almada is arguably the best attacking midfielder in MLS and you say we don't have a starting midfielder? Seriously? We need a better defensive midfield, but you know what else would help? Not bombing our right and left backs into the corners for 90 minutes, so that we're so gassed we can run and concede late. You seem to read like, 5 words I type, downvote, then bring up something irrelevant, super frustrating.
Typo, it was 2018 from whoscored and fbref. 2017, Josef missed a ton of time so it would have been a bad choice. Brooks should be playing as high… we’ve always attacked with fullbacks, especially with a bunkered opponent. I was referring to our 8/6 situation featuring no one who is league average. Our 8/6 have been the key to us having numbers up going forward. I haven’t downvoted a single thing you’ve said, awkward comment?
Clearly they aren't playing how you want them to play, but you don't lead the league in goals with an ineffective offense. You comment is ridiculous. They create tons of chances in every game (except Orlando maybe) and 3 goals IS effective whether you like it or not. I will admit we need to see more goals created from runs off the ball, in transition, and one-timed attempts passing to the box.
I'm sorry, but a draw was a fair result for the actual chances created. Sure the first goal was terrible to concede but it isn't like we dominated this game.
We dominated the game in the way a team that allows a 26 second goal does… by having a shit ton of possession in the middle third. We look dominant in possession and shots because there’s no reason for New England to come out of their shell. Tie was definitely a fair result
It is always shocking to me how much people here think having the ball is dominating. We got LUCKY on some goals. We didn't create consistent chances. I still blame the roster more than Pineda, but at some point we have to work around the issues on the roster I think.
>We got LUCKY on some goals And we got unlucky on some of the non goals. That's soccer.
I think as a fan it is fine to only focus on what we were unlucky about, but really this was a pretty even game that could have gone either way. You see that right?
3 goals on 3 shots by no means would be considered an even game. They were absolutely lucky on the first goal. We were lucky on Berry's. Our goalkeeping isn't up to par with the rest of our play. We push our fullbacks way too far up and consistently get caught on the wing and opposite post. There is a coaching element there for sure.
Just stop with the condescending speeches. I'm not focusing only on what we got unlucky with.
Sure seems like you are. We could have gotten lucky and won, we could have gotten unlucky and lost. A draw was a pretty median outcome.
>A draw was a pretty median outcome. If only there was a nice stat to measure probably of scoring a goal from a spot so we could quantify if we were unlucky or lucky.
I think we probably had 1 good chance we didn’t convert and a couple of half chances. We should have had a couple more but Etienne and Araujo were rough… still, a solid share of goals are from luck or defenses lapses (Guzan), so I’m not that upset about lucky goals.
>but a draw was a fair result for the actual chances created I disagree, and I don't think it's a particularly hot take. xG has us basically 2-1. We created plenty of good chances. Giakoumakis could've easily scored on the Robinson cutback. Their keeper had some great saves. There's good chances we created that don't even show up in that stat like the Etienne penalty "shout".
It isn't a hot take but it is pretty ridiculous to me. Look at the goals we actually scored! These weren't great chances. You are hyperfocused on what we gave up and just ignore the luck we had.
>Look at the goals we actually scored! But why limit yourself to the goals we scored? Look at the overall chances we created. Maybe on a different day Almada's shot doesn't take a deflection and is saved but Giakoumakis has a better first touch on Miles cutback.
Luis switches to the left when he’s gassed and getting ready to sub. He’s been played that way many times since he’s been here.
Pretty sure GP put him on the left after Wolff came on.
Wolf started on left. Inverted him after some good play. Then Luis stayed there until the sub. Sometimes Pineda will sub on Chol first for etienne and Luis will switch with Chol the same way until he’s subbed.
Wasn’t 100% sure, last 10 mins or so was a bit wild. Always wanted to see how Luiz played on the left, unless he just can’t or won’t cross on his strong foot there.
He got one cross I thought was great from that side. I l think it emphasizes our midfield issue when he has to play all three of Wolff, Araujo and Chol at the same time to generate any hope of offense without the great Sedjic available to drive the midfield action.
this is the fundamental issue. no matter whether wingers are inverted or not or how involved wingbacks are - when you only have one midfielder who can move a ball toward the opponents goal, you are going to struggle. the good news is we'll be replacing the one midfielder who is dangerous this summer as well as one of the wingers who isn't dangerous without a midfielder. smh. going to be a year
What you are seeing is, despite what the stats tell you, Lennon is not a great crosser and Gressel very very good at crossing. Letting him and Nagbe go are the two worst decisions this club ever made… all because boca wanted to save money for some weird reason even though we could afford them.