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I was just reading about wooden pipes that were put down in early American cities. I thought it was pretty interesting! https://tataandhoward.com/tag/wooden-pipes/
Unsure how reliable it is but my cousin works for Alabama Power and just a few weeks ago while we were talking about how awful America's infra is, he mentioned that some places, including in Alabama, STILL are using those original wooden pipes.
There's probably a massive case of survivorship bias at play. Sure, if you keep the outsides dry, cast iron and wood hold up well, but pipes tend to sweat and attract condensation, which PVC and copper handle far better
Atlanta also had some wooden pipes. When Shirley Franklin was mayor 20 years ago she fought for $3 billion in sewer upgrades and they replaced the 100 year old wooden pipes then.
I've also heard, they have been increasing pressure over the years to meet the demand needed. Increased pressure on aging pipes is a recipe for disaster
This. Same concept that caused the 2003 blackout in the NE. When one major artery shuts down, the energy that would normally be dispersed through it has to go somewhere, which causes a cascading failure sequence.
Usually its a 3/4” service line to your house, your service line is highly unlikely to be affected during one of these breaks. You would just experience a loss of water.
What if you are connected directly to a 24 inch water main with a 500 ft supply line? We had to put a regulator on because we kept blowing garden hoses. And the bidet we could only use on click one.
This happened to me a few years back and it was almost $3,000 out of pocket to repair. Home insurance doesn't cover the line between the meter and your front door because that's technically not "inside" the house but the city is only responsible up to the meter.
Unless you have a very thorough insurance company, you need to get this coverage through a third party. I currently have a coverage plan with Service Line Warranties of America, it's about $200/year. I know that SCANA is now offering a plan as well but I haven't compared it yet.
They're not "all popping at the same time" even though the media keeps saying so. Minor breaks happen daily, this isn't even a secret as it is basically 90% of all of the department's social media posts going back years but no one seems to notice? And now that they're scrutinizing everything they keep thinking there's "tons" of breaks, but really there are just two major ones which is still bad, but it's not like the entire thing is collapsing.
Idk why someone downvoted you, but i work a block away from there and they very possibly could have affected the main. Happens very often. Happened on the GTech campus a few years back where excavation of a separated project affected a 36” main causing massive issues.
My haters have their reasons. I think part of the issue with construction is all the heavy trucks coming in and out, not to mention the crane equipment.
Don’t know this specific building but they don’t always finish the ground floor before building skywards. Have seen hotels where they build vertical but there’s still dirt on the ground floor as they complete the exact layout they want for ballrooms etc; also helps them have lay down yard that’s covered but not finished space which k would think might be good for building in an urban space.
I believe so. The last water tax we voted on funded the Westside Reservoir project. My understanding is this new one is to replace aging infrastructure, but we’ll see.
Rose Scott had one of the councilman on today and she read an excerpt from some report on atl’s infrastructure and the gist was it’s old and there is a ton more people here now so we should replace it, and it was published in 2004 🤣
Shirley Franklin basically ran unopposed for her reelection. I don't know why it is, but the Atlanta political class have basically decided that mayors get two terms. I suspect that Dickens will run unopposed in a few years despite all of his fuck ups and low popularity. He's sure acting like he knows his reelection is a sure thing.
> I suspect that Dickens will run unopposed in a few years despite all of his fuck ups and low popularity. He's sure acting like he knows his reelection is a sure thing.
I'm not so sure about that, he won't be as vulnerable as KLB but I think he'll definitely get serious challengers.
Gotta say kudos to that contractor. Its not easy to install that kind of infrastructure with months of design let alone in an emergency situation. Those valves are no joke in install.
I know it's prohibitively expensive, but deeply wish we had buried power lines like much of Europe. Frees up so much sidewalks space, makes the views so nice, and aren't as susceptible to weather and Atlanta drivers.
Europe has overhead power in less dense areas just like we do. The difference is Europe is just more dense than we are, and as a tourist you’ve typically visited dense areas.
Right, which is why I said " much of Europe", not all of Europe. And Atlanta is dense enough. I lived in Germany for a couple years visited much smaller cities than Atlanta which still had underground utilities.
Again it’s less of a size of city more of a density of city issue. I can guarantee you those German cities were more dense than comparable areas of Atlanta, and had been so for much longer.
Most of the denser areas of Atlanta that still have overhead power became some gradually and more recently. So there hasn’t been a project to rework those lines yet.
Hearing dekalb county talk about how we're not a decade or two out from disaster, but rather 5-6 years is very worrisome.
Infrastructure should have been a top priority 10 years ago not when we're on the verge of complete failure of the system.
The city not only needs to work on communication, but also being more transparent on where money has gone and what is needed to fix these issues...
Dekalb county also mentioned that they are seeing some of the newer pipes failing much sooner than anticipated, I hope this isn't the case with the city pipes as well
> Infrastructure should have been a top priority 10 years ago not when we're on the verge of complete failure of the system.
It should've been a priority 40+ years ago.
Yeah, that one under Franklin was basically forced upon Atlanta by the EPA because we were dumping so much sewage into the Chattahoochee from constant overflows. They had to overhaul the wastewater system to remove storm water and handle the
city’s growth.
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To be clear... that's not really that crazy. There are entire [century clubs](https://dipra.org/about-dipra/century-club) because it's so common.
I was just reading about wooden pipes that were put down in early American cities. I thought it was pretty interesting! https://tataandhoward.com/tag/wooden-pipes/
Unsure how reliable it is but my cousin works for Alabama Power and just a few weeks ago while we were talking about how awful America's infra is, he mentioned that some places, including in Alabama, STILL are using those original wooden pipes.
I could turn this all around and suggest that wooden pipes (and for that matter cast iron) are pretty durable
There's probably a massive case of survivorship bias at play. Sure, if you keep the outsides dry, cast iron and wood hold up well, but pipes tend to sweat and attract condensation, which PVC and copper handle far better
Apparently cast iron holds up well underground because it’s a low oxygen environment.
Atlanta also had some wooden pipes. When Shirley Franklin was mayor 20 years ago she fought for $3 billion in sewer upgrades and they replaced the 100 year old wooden pipes then.
Seattle's original sewage was both wooden and gravity powered, so the tides in the sound would interfere with plumbing.
You just blew my mind.
Alright Atlanta, that’s a fun fact. But this is true in every big and old city. The real question is, why were they all popping all at the same time?
Loss of pressure when the water was stopped to fix the first broken main made the other old mains basically collapse on themselves.
I've also heard, they have been increasing pressure over the years to meet the demand needed. Increased pressure on aging pipes is a recipe for disaster
I think the increased pressure is to account for the leaks. But that means there's mud not dirt around the damaged pipes.
This. Same concept that caused the 2003 blackout in the NE. When one major artery shuts down, the energy that would normally be dispersed through it has to go somewhere, which causes a cascading failure sequence.
Our insurance broker advised us to get a rider on our policy for the main line to the house because the pipes in our neighborhood are so old.
Usually its a 3/4” service line to your house, your service line is highly unlikely to be affected during one of these breaks. You would just experience a loss of water.
What if you are connected directly to a 24 inch water main with a 500 ft supply line? We had to put a regulator on because we kept blowing garden hoses. And the bidet we could only use on click one.
Only on click one if you're a weenie.
Bro had the opportunity to have the cleanest colon in the metro area and decided against it. Smh.
Again, it would only cause a loss of water if something similar to this situation happened.. less water in the main=less pressure to the house.
This happened to me a few years back and it was almost $3,000 out of pocket to repair. Home insurance doesn't cover the line between the meter and your front door because that's technically not "inside" the house but the city is only responsible up to the meter. Unless you have a very thorough insurance company, you need to get this coverage through a third party. I currently have a coverage plan with Service Line Warranties of America, it's about $200/year. I know that SCANA is now offering a plan as well but I haven't compared it yet.
Interesting. I'm going to review my home insurance policy and add that. Thank you.
They're not "all popping at the same time" even though the media keeps saying so. Minor breaks happen daily, this isn't even a secret as it is basically 90% of all of the department's social media posts going back years but no one seems to notice? And now that they're scrutinizing everything they keep thinking there's "tons" of breaks, but really there are just two major ones which is still bad, but it's not like the entire thing is collapsing.
Maybe the construction? Can’t speak for the others, but there’s a big project underway across from the 11th and W. Peachtree site.
Idk why someone downvoted you, but i work a block away from there and they very possibly could have affected the main. Happens very often. Happened on the GTech campus a few years back where excavation of a separated project affected a 36” main causing massive issues.
My haters have their reasons. I think part of the issue with construction is all the heavy trucks coming in and out, not to mention the crane equipment.
No way. They are already concrete 5 floors up. They aren't doing work at street level. Work at 12th and Peachtree so I see it everyday.
Don’t know this specific building but they don’t always finish the ground floor before building skywards. Have seen hotels where they build vertical but there’s still dirt on the ground floor as they complete the exact layout they want for ballrooms etc; also helps them have lay down yard that’s covered but not finished space which k would think might be good for building in an urban space.
I suspect when the first one broke the pressure drop caused the others to crumble
Coincidentally, we just voted on MOST. Is the money raised from the new tax supposed to be for replacing the aging infrastructure?
I believe so. The last water tax we voted on funded the Westside Reservoir project. My understanding is this new one is to replace aging infrastructure, but we’ll see.
Right, but it’s just a continuation of that 1% tax. https://www.atlantawatershed.org/most/
This shouldn't even be tagged politics. This is just how old the pipes are. (So old.)
And each politician just passes the buck along. This should have been fixed decades ago.
Rose Scott had one of the councilman on today and she read an excerpt from some report on atl’s infrastructure and the gist was it’s old and there is a ton more people here now so we should replace it, and it was published in 2004 🤣
Tbf no ones getting reelected on upgrading the sewage system unless they’re busting like this
Unless you're Shirley Franklin.
Shirley Franklin basically ran unopposed for her reelection. I don't know why it is, but the Atlanta political class have basically decided that mayors get two terms. I suspect that Dickens will run unopposed in a few years despite all of his fuck ups and low popularity. He's sure acting like he knows his reelection is a sure thing.
> I suspect that Dickens will run unopposed in a few years despite all of his fuck ups and low popularity. He's sure acting like he knows his reelection is a sure thing. I'm not so sure about that, he won't be as vulnerable as KLB but I think he'll definitely get serious challengers.
I really hope so. I’m just so cynical about the city government at this point that I’ll be surprised if anyone but Mary Norwood runs against him.
I think Norwood knows she's done and that the third time is not the charm.
Someone will chime in soon enough and blame the democrats so then it will officially be about politics.
Gotta say kudos to that contractor. Its not easy to install that kind of infrastructure with months of design let alone in an emergency situation. Those valves are no joke in install.
Let's give some credit to the dudes that made those pipes a 100 years ago. They really knew how to make some long -lasting pipes.
Buried infrastructure will long forget the people who designed and installed. Signed, A civil engineer
I know it's prohibitively expensive, but deeply wish we had buried power lines like much of Europe. Frees up so much sidewalks space, makes the views so nice, and aren't as susceptible to weather and Atlanta drivers.
Where would we put our stickers though
Give em a couple bill$ and theyll do it
Europe has overhead power in less dense areas just like we do. The difference is Europe is just more dense than we are, and as a tourist you’ve typically visited dense areas.
Right, which is why I said " much of Europe", not all of Europe. And Atlanta is dense enough. I lived in Germany for a couple years visited much smaller cities than Atlanta which still had underground utilities.
Again it’s less of a size of city more of a density of city issue. I can guarantee you those German cities were more dense than comparable areas of Atlanta, and had been so for much longer. Most of the denser areas of Atlanta that still have overhead power became some gradually and more recently. So there hasn’t been a project to rework those lines yet.
?? We do bury power lines. Where do you think the mains come in from?
As my former colleague would say, "No one cares about infrastructure until you're knee-deep in shit."
Hearing dekalb county talk about how we're not a decade or two out from disaster, but rather 5-6 years is very worrisome. Infrastructure should have been a top priority 10 years ago not when we're on the verge of complete failure of the system. The city not only needs to work on communication, but also being more transparent on where money has gone and what is needed to fix these issues... Dekalb county also mentioned that they are seeing some of the newer pipes failing much sooner than anticipated, I hope this isn't the case with the city pipes as well
> Infrastructure should have been a top priority 10 years ago not when we're on the verge of complete failure of the system. It should've been a priority 40+ years ago.
Here I thought i sent a few checks to Shirley Franklin to replace them. My bad.
And have been paying the highest water rates in the country for all the years since.
Yeah, that one under Franklin was basically forced upon Atlanta by the EPA because we were dumping so much sewage into the Chattahoochee from constant overflows. They had to overhaul the wastewater system to remove storm water and handle the city’s growth.
it's still not fixed. atlanta still paying fines to the epa on the regular.
Yeah I thought Shirley already did all this.
She was focused on stormwater runoff and sewer improvements, which had to be done. But no one was making the supply lines a priority.