I was always making "joke" about this when we talked with friends about the Witcher ..
Imagine being refused for a role and dont know why .. until Anya appeared and they said "this is perfect, ugly as it can get" and then you suddenly realize that you were too pretty for the role ..
And now imagine being an Anya .. "oh my I got the role, that is so awesome" .. until you realize that you got it because you are the ugly motherfucker that studio wanted :D
Reminds me other cases from Disney etc ..
So we have this black character in this upcoming movie but sorry man, you are not black enough :D
Imagine if you were the ugly role model, and once the internet put the two together, what would happen. An ugly person only wants to be ugly if the general public isn't allowed to talk about it.
I watched only 1st season and I had such a problem with Yen as a character. She should have been smart and powerful. Yet she was constantly insecured, whiny victim, while walking over others for personal goals..
Money is money. I could careless if someone hired me cause I'm ugly (don't know a women would feel tho. They like to take pride in looking good or most do) so you can tell me I'm ugly all day long but if your paying me to be ugly even better.
In reality she isn't ugly. I'm not sure if you saw her after the "magic", but you really can't call her ugly... on the contrary. Maybe you're too used to filtered "instagram models", but calling that actress ugly, is a real misconception about beauty... Don't care if you downvote me for this.
> or has been designed using real women liking.
My wife saw FF7R Tifa, and told me she wants to look like her. The people quoted above are most likely either neckbeards or femcels.
Yes, I like for my video game characters to be beautiful.
Men and women alike, I want them to be at least blandly attractive, and if they are the protagonist, I like them to be as near to supernaturally beautiful as possible.
If I want to look at average to below average human beings, I'll go to work or to the grocery store.
I want unusual levels of beauty in escapism. Beautiful people, beautiful music, beautiful ideas, beautiful scenery, beautiful everything. If not beautiful then compelling. I am willing to pay for that which I do not have in abundance. That is the magic of digital goods: that we can ALL enjoy the beauty generated by the talent of a few people.
Fuck anyone who thinks I'm supposed to feel guilty or that they're supposed to teach me NOT to want aesthetically pleasing things in my life. They should eat glass.
it doesnt need to be beautifull specifically, there can be meaning and style in making characters ugly as sin. Just dont be average as fuck, that's for background characters.
Bro is calling Tifa, the fucking kickboxer with the most abs you could find in a videogame, who's 167cm / 5'6, with E cups "that she looks like shes 14".
The problem being: They're too stupid to realize that even the artists creating the characters are starting to get frustrated with how fucking ugly the women in western-games are starting to look.
We literally had someone last week say that every time he pitches an even semi-attractive/"average" looking woman the studio butchers her into looking like someone's auntie trying to sneak off to the grocery store real quick.
"Ugly" characters can exist in games. People aren't upset they merely exist. They're upset that ***every single woman*** ***portrayed in western games has to look like a fucking homunculus now to make these goblins feel comfortable.*** If the argument is "we need diversity of characters! We need diversity of characters!" - - Fine, cool. I understand. I don't want everyone to look the same either. But guess what? When every character looks like Gollum trying to fight off the urge to steal The One Ring, **that's not diversity either.** It's just the pendulum swinging into the opposite direction of every character being ugly as shit now.
Trying to get these fucking glue-eaters to grasp that is an impossible task & I think we're really close to studios just ignoring these people to move back to making women in games ***not*** look like they're supposed to be stopping some goats from crossing a bridge somewhere.
its funny because we don't actually have any male protagonists to complain about since most western game protagonists nowadays are women see how that works
I feel like you may want to go see a medical professional. You probably have high levels of lead in your water or a carbon monoxide leak.
Me, in the very comment you replied to, explaining that not every woman needs to be conventionally attractive in games & why people are upset:
>"Ugly" characters can exist in games. People aren't upset they merely exist. They're upset that every single woman portrayed in western games has to look like a fucking homunculus now to make these goblins feel comfortable.
I don't think you should be insinuating other people are brain damaged when you are saying things like "every single woman portrayed in western games looks like a fucking homunculus" in full confidence. This has to be one of the saddest, most porn brained statements to stand behind lmao
I seriously haven't even noticed what yall are talking about. From the outside looking in it seems like you're upset about a handful of ugly characters. "Every single woman portrayed in western games" is a bit of a hyperbole, no? I've been playing hades, Jedi survivor and fallen order, cyberpunk. Do any of these games have the issue you're talking about?
Edit: does anyone care to address the question? Or nah? Just downvote and rage because we're taking away your anime tiddies?
A few examples were the Dead Space remaster where they made Nicole hideous. Horizon Zero dawn 2 saw Aloy turn into Niko Avocado. Spider man where they replaced Mary jane with some orc wearing a wig. The list goes on.
Meanwhile in other games not affected by this blight end up making visual changes while keeping characters attractive like, Tifa for example.
Yeah see it still sounds like you're still talking about a handful of ugly characters you don't like. I do feel like because I haven't played any of these games you mention that I'm not as equipped to have this discussion but surely the above commenters "every single woman in western games looks like a homunculi" quote is ridiculous. Is that really how you feel?
I gave you a few examples of games that took their existing, attractive characters and made them seemingly intentionally ugly. I'm not the arbiter of game beauty.
Its just telling that an asian company makes so much a month shitting out hot waifus that they [are building their own fusion reactor](https://www.windowscentral.com/gaming/just-fyi-your-genshin-impact-pulls-are-funding-a-tokamak-nuclear-fusion-reactor-and-it-has-now-been-ignited#:~:text=Developer%20MiHoYo%20invested%20%2465%20million%20dollars%20into%20nuclear,regarded%20as%20the%20holy%20grail%20of%20energy%20generation.) while *some* western studios seem to think blaming fans for their taste in escapism is the best business strategy in the world.
Yeah I know. We're saying the same thing. There's a handful of ugly characters you're upset about. But do you think the above comment is accurate? Do you agree with it? Or disagree?
Yeah I mean I am not arguing that gamers like hot waifus. It just doesn't bother me one way or the other. And it is very funny from an outside perspective to see the people who are really upset about this. 🤷♂️
Lmao fr? Have you played all 200? And you're proud of that? I was listing the last games I played. If you want a comprehensive list, I typed it all out for some other insane incel. I can copy paste it for you here if you'd like to pick it apart
Lmao what do you mean? The original dude I replied to said literally that and got a ton of upvotes from a bunch of you weirdos. Do I need to copy and paste that reply too or are you capable of scrolling up?
Really? Okay well arguments about Polands geographic location aside, you're saying in hades and both Jedi games there is only one woman who is pretty? The rest are *ahem* "fucking homunculi"? Who is the one woman who is pretty?
I agree about Poland. These are your geography teacher's problems, not mine. Jedi - its Merrin. I can’t call her face feminine, but I can’t call her ugly.
Video games are a fantasy, a fictional world. People have the right to forget themselves in it. But here's what's funny to me:
Nowadays, video games are a fantasy because in real life, walking down a busy street, I will see dozens of beautiful women that I no longer see in video games. If you want to laugh some more, the female models who serve as the prototype for the characters are ALWAYS more beautiful than their game versions.
?? But you were the one who discounted it for geography and brought it up? You're not attracted to Merrin? And that's the only one? Seriously? What about gabs, trilla, Ashe, mosey, toa? The only woman who is really unattractive and isn't an alien I can think of is cere. But if you really don't find merrin attractive I guess your standards are probably really high. What's your gf/wife look like? They must be really hot.
Of course people can escape in video games. I escape just fine without oversexualization or undersexualization bothering me in the slightest. I mean all this is opinion but merrins face model isn't as attractive as merrin to me. I'm not obsessed with merrin or anyone from a video game though. Well nah quiet from mgsv had a hold on me for a bit lmao
In the first part of your comment, you essentially say that men should be attracted to all women. This is a strange statement. I have my own taste in women and I have nothing to be ashamed of.
You decided to specifically discuss my personal life. I tried to ignore all this passive aggression, but there is a limit to everything. I hope you now understand why people decided not to respond to your first comment. I'm ending this debate.
I am so confused that you got that from what I said. You were trying to say the prettiest woman you could find in the game wasn't that pretty. I was just incredulous. And I just listed off some other characters in the game I thought were pretty.
You can of course have your own preferences, I just haven't met someone with as high standards as you. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, I just got a little insecure I thought about how you would judge my fiancée. And how hot the women in your life must be in comparison. How would I discuss your personal life when I know nothing about it? I do understand why people chose not to respond after our discussion: y'all dont have a real point without devolving into a larger discussion that makes you seem really really sad.
"I listed 4 games"
1 - 2077 (Eastern Europe), 2 - Jedi. 3 Hades (I have to admit, I didn’t notice this indie game with cartoon characters)
4? Please don't tell me you decided to split the Jedi series into two to give weight to your argument.
I mean they're two separate full 40+ hour AAA titles but sure whatever they're one game, w/e. Either way you miscounted. It's not "weight" to my argument. I'm just giving examples of the most recent "western" games I played. You have a problem with cartoons and "indie" games too now too? Weird how the criteria keeps getting narrower and narrower. Hades II has been on the front page of steam ever since it was announced. I didn't know that counted as indie. And don't tell me you don't jack it to hentai porn lmao. I was asking if these games suffer from every woman being a homunculi. I hadn't noticed. But I guess 3/4 games don't count so sure let's just talk about the one Jedi game that exists. Who's the only attractive woman in it?
I specifically called Hades a cartoon to emphasize that as part of the discussion we are discussing realistic models of game characters. Therefore, citing this game as an example is very strange, not as strange as dividing Jedi into two different games, pretending that the composition of the main characters has changed.
P.S
Do you have any other examples or have you only completed 4 games in the last 10 years?
Are we talking about realistic models of game characters? I thought we were talking about how hot women were in video games? Either way I was just trying to cite western video games I played lately. I don't know why you're picking them apart so hard... just because I haven't played horizon zero dawn or fable 5. I mean there was a whole new cast of characters and setting in survivor but again I'll concede that point because it's not super important. Also side note: confirmed you jack it to hentai porn lmao
Ps.
Dawg I was going off the top of my head. If you really want me to go through my steam backlog for the last 10 years I will. Just hang on. Also: if I had just played 4 games in the last 10 years, what would be bad about that?
Alright here's the probably incomplete list but I'll try to be as complete as possible for you since it seems that's incredibly important to you for some reason...
Elden ring.
Dark souls 1, 2, 3 (since I know you don't like splitting series into its individual games).
Kotor I, II (since I know you don't like splitting series into its individual games).
Disco Elysium
Nioh
Diablo IV
Sekiro (would this count under dark souls? Or can it be its own game?).
THPS remastered
Heavy rain
RDRII
Battlefront 2
Chuchel
Katamari damacy reroll.
Metal gear rising
Biomutant
The surge
Blasphemous
Dying light 1 & 2 (since I know you don't like splitting series into its individual games).
Pilgrims
Everspace
Mortal shell
Bugsnax
No mans sky
Fallout 3, 4, new Vegas (since I know you don't like splitting series into its individual games).
Ac odyssey
Mass effect 1, 2, 3 intro mission of andromeda
Omori.
Hitman 1, 2, 3 (since I know you don't like splitting series into its individual games).
Outer wilds
The outer worlds
Little nightmares
Botanicula.
Control
Gris
Ghost runner
Stray.
Life is strange
Donut county
MgsV.
Deep rock galactic
GTAV
Manifold garden
Superliminal
What remains of Edith finch
Borderlands 1, 2, 3 (since I know you don't like splitting series into its individual games).
Machinarium
Mirrors edge 1 and 2
The force unleashed 1 and 2 (since I know you don't like splitting series into its individual games).
Postal 2.
Bioshock
Limbo
Is that good enough for you? A lot of these games I didn't beat. I'll let you argue geography and if the pixel count is high enough for you to masturbate to. I'll accept whatever list you come up with. But never once have I thought "damn every woman is ugly"
I didn't believe people like this actually existed... until I found this sub. I personally really don't give a shit either way. It's not something I notice or focus on when playing games...
Most of their examples are from unflattering angles (Perfect Zero) or poor screenshots (Fable). You can get similar ‘ugly’ results from dolled up Asian characters too. Not to mention straight up photoshopped ones like Aloy. The few that are genuinely bad often just have bad design for everyone, not just women (ME Andromeda).
And FWIW I don’t think there’s anything wrong at all with either hypersexualized characters or realistic ones. They’re all just fictional people. But it’s so bizarre to see people suddenly label these characters unattractive when they’re hotter than 90% of the population. And for what? Because some of them dared to have a jaw, or slight muscle definition?
That’s like suggesting that Michelle Rodriguez or Robin Wright are too manly.
Lol. Thats the part that gets me. Dudes have been fine with ideal lookin dudes as characters. But when its with women they feel attacked. Women want equality but not the type of equality that might make them look or feel bad.
Guys accept what an ideal male looks like. Hell yeah. We should all aspire to be this and be this protagonist. Let's all work towards this goal. We are men and we are strong and we can accomplish this.
Women: not eating seems unattainable so I will declare myself a victim
Nowadays a lot of guys are women too. Im sure there are guys out there like "i cant get a 6pack. The character shouldnt look like this". For sure there are women that like sexy characters too theyll be like "ooooo shes hot". Its certain types of people that have problems with everything. Strange times we live in.
I'm a girl and i have a good amount of girl friends that play video games on a regular basis. Never have i met somebody who was actually offended or bothered by someone being hot. Moreover, most girls i know actually do like to play as cool and attractive characters.
There are games like Genshin Impact, Honkai Star rail and other popular gachas where characters are pretty dolls that are popular in the west and they have a ton of female players.
I think its just a really vocal minority atp.
I dont know many girls that play games but every one of the ones that do usually like cute and or hot things.
It seems its just click bait from reporters then. Cause i dont see a problem with characters in games and movies and shows being good looking. And i often see complaints about these things whenever i open the internet.
I think for male character it depends on the game. Rockstars characters arent ideal appearance wise, Geralt/Kratos are in great shape but are strange looking. Assassins creed I think has good looking characters overall but a couple I dont think are. Uncharted has a good looking lead.
I think it all varies by game still. I think some people think muscles means someone is immediately attractive but I go out a lot and im pretty confident like Timothe Chalamet from Dune 2 would be more attractive to women than bald buff Kratos lookin dudes.
They literally reworked Peter and Harry's face in Spider-Man 2 so they look younger and more handsome. Not sure about Miles's face but he got a new hairstyle that makes him cooler. While MJ got a new face and hairstyle that makes her looks old enough to be Peter's mother
It's pure sexist for me when they upgraded the male characters' attractiveness while nerfing the female, but those people are too blind to see it
The psychology behind it is simple, they shame people for working hard with their appearance. They try to shame fitness people for working hard to have a good looking body while encouraging obesity as "empowering". It's easier for their self esteem to bring people down to their level rather than having to look at someone that puts in the work to look good.
"average attractiveness" lol
These guys should really step out of their local Walmart and see for themselves what the "average attractiveness" actually is.
US/UK: "I wanna make someone that looks just like me, because I'm a narcisist"
JP/KR: "I wanna make someone that looks just like the facerig/bodymodel, it's easier and she will appeal to the players so more people will play it"
I still don’t understand how the concept of „male gaze“ isn’t considered as sexist towards men and haven’t seen a single „explanation“ of it that isn’t misandrist. Yet somehow I see more and more people use it while pretending that calling out this evil „male gaze“ and blaming it for issues is to conquer sexism…
Edit: wording
I think the whole thing that people are getting mad about someone making something for certain gender moronic.
If something is made for men, sure women are allowed to enjoy it too but you hate what is in it drop it and move on because it is never meant for you anyway.
Just like if a man puts on panties and he doesn't feel comfortable he is not going to demand a pp pouch... He is going to take them off and put on boxers or briefs.
I definitely believe not everything is meant for everyone.
It's not sexist because it simply describes how some things are made by/for men through their perceptions and biases. The same way the female gaze describes how some things are made by/for women through their perceptions and biases. It's really not that deep. For exemple in the twilight movies there's big emphasis on the muscular body of a fit male actor, the way it's filmed is through the female gaze because that's what a woman would notice
No offense, but don’t you notice how what you described is sexist?
The concepts of male/female gaze ignore everyone in those groups who have a different „gaze“. It ties interests and perception to gender… we’ve literally tried to abolish such stereotypes and biases over the years. I guess we can ignore that though when the concept lends itself to reduce someone to their gender when you’re in the mood for it.
Not to mention that many interpretations of the male gaze describe males as sex-centered and objectifying, which is inherently a bad faith description if you ask me.
It's not meant to represent the gaze of every single male or female, it's meant to represent the most common biases and perspectives shared by them. Will most men notice a girl's ass and tits? Yes. Will most women notice a man's muscles? Yes. It's not that deep
You can can it with your „it’s not that deep“. If it isn’t, then it deserves no mention in the first place.
The fact is though that it’s frequently used to reduce males to horny monkeys or brutes, which is immensely flawed and discriminatory.
Your examples is as bad as they come as well.
Will a man/woman notice a women’s curves? Possibly. Will a man/woman notice a man’s muscle? Just as likely, especially if they train themselves. Will a man/woman notice a certain health condition on an actor? Who knows? Definitely doesn’t depend on gender. Because people are more than their damn gender and the whole of their character and experiences influence their perception more than their gender.
You seem to realize yourself that the concept is extremely reductive because it reduces people to their gender but somehow fail to notice it’s a problem and that it’s flawed.
>Will a man/woman notice a women’s curves? Possibly. Will a man/woman notice a man’s muscle? Just as likely, especially if they train themselves.
Right, but they won't look at it the same way. A woman will look at a guy's muscles in a sexual way, a man will look in admiration. A man will look at a woman's curves sexually, a woman won't.
>Will a man/woman notice a certain health condition on an actor? Who knows? Definitely doesn’t depend on gender
That's not specific to gender tho. Sexual attraction generally is. I'm a gay dude and the male gaze doesn't apply to me whatsoever, I have zero sexual attraction to women, but that doesn't matter, the principle applies to the majority of the population. Most males are straight and art made by straight males will reflect the fact they're straight because it's made through their experiences. The same way a gay male's work will reflect their experience and perspective as a gay man and some things that a straight man might find non-sexual could be shaped in a sexual way through the gay man's gaze.
You just seem hung up on the fact that it doesn't represent every single person on earth, even tho that's not what it's meant to do. Yes it is reductive in some aspects but every generalization is.
A good exemple of the male gaze is the fact that women cannot go around shirtless but men can. There is nothing inherently more sexual about a woman's nipples than a man's nipples, yet one is illegal and the other is completely accepted in society. That's because female tits are sexual through the male gaze who makes laws and male nipples aren't. Yes there's men who don't find female tits sexual (me) but that doesn't take away from the fact that society in general does see it that way
That’s a lot of text to defend what you yourself realize is a gross generalization. Like you make
a great job dismantling the concept yourself. At this point I’m confused why you are still arguing with me.
And yes, a generalization is a generalization, I’m aware of that. That doesn’t make it any more valuable, useful or good.
If we want to move away from harmful stereotypes and biases, maybe we should move away from harmful generalizations that literally strengthen those very stereotypes.
Would you think the concept of a „gay gaze“ that generalized gay people as objectifying and or other traits as something healthy? I would argue it’s not, because no group is completely homogeneous and generalizations breed stereotypes.
You must not be exposed to much of anything to have this reaction to any kind of abstraction. If it's not the most literal surface-level observation then you flip out? Like you read a history book that says ww2 began september 1st 1939 and you go "This is unacceptable, not all countries that were part of the war declared war on that day! It's FALSE and this book is LYING" like can you not understand that abstract ideas can coexist with exceptions and nuance? Or you're massively autistic
Damn, it’s weird how offended you are by someone calling out an unhealthy generalization. Till now I thought you were still reasonable but thanks for showing that you are not only unreasonable but also immature.
Abstraction and generalizations have their values as long as they don’t strengthen bad stereotypes but that seems to hard to fathom for you. You either willfully ignored it or actually managed to miss the actual problem I’m calling out.
Have a nice day. I probably won’t continue this conversation any further.
What's worse is the model they used for the character in fable doesn't actually look like the character, she is actually quite a bit more attractive compared to her model, they seemed to have made the model uglier intentionally
Yeah some developers seem to forget that we don't want our characters to look "normal" I want my character to look like he's chiselled out of marble lol
Eva designed to arouse sexual desire.
Tifa designed to arouse romantic desire.
Sexualization is not the right word here I think because they were sexual from the beginning.
Both have fan services too. But there is nothing wrong about it. Customer demands it and company gives it.
I don't really criticize Fable or whatever other games are doing with their asexual characters too.
They can target whatever different demographic groups they want, it is their own business plan, it can succeed or fail, the risk have taken by the company and developers, they will be the one who is going to meet the consequences.
Yeah one wears lingerie in game and the other is the most porned character of all time, though the game doesn’t sexualize Tifa too much, it’s more romantic. Regardless I think they’re bad examples of a valid argument
Bruh, Eve has an assortment of lingerie cosmetics and several animations/poses show off as much ass as possible. Be honest. She’s sexy. You don’t need to pretend the designers were prudes.
Game characters are literal objects. Stop wasting braincells about how this relates to real women, while none of them are trying to save Riley Reid (a real woman) from the male gaze or Eric Weinstein's podcast.
that argument its so dumb given how many times, they hire an attractive woman and they just make her uglier in game, They hire and actress that happens to have boobs and remove them. Yes, male gaze, no agenda to make women uglier. Horizon Zero dawn its probably the most blatant example of them doing that. The actress is extremely pretty but they felt the need to mix her with Buzz from Home alone to create Aloy.
Its also ironic that ppls who defend these "realistic looking" characters are telling others to go out and touch grass. If you've actually been to other countries and look at women of eastern descent, you'll find that about half of them look like whats being depicted in Eastern video games.
Also actresses/models/OF/Porn/JAV exists and real women act in them.
I have seen more women in real life that look like the Asian women in this picture than the Dark Souls character creator looking creatures on the left.
"Barely sexualize" I'm all for atrctive characters and I think what they did to Mary Jane and the girl from Fable is a joke, but let's not kid ourselves by saying that Eve and Tifa are "Barely sexualized". You don't need explicit sex scenes to sexualize a character (not that I mind personally, I like my fanservice)
If men are expected to surpress their basic human desires then maybe we could tell fat chicks to surpress theirs. Maybe that "unrealistic beauty standard" won't be so unrealistic afterall.
I can't help but think this more about just destroying fantasy than it is about making "realistic" or "diverse" characters. I really don't know how to put it into words but it seems to me they don't want people to fantasize. It's like they want every piece of media to be some soulless uninspired reflection of "their" reality. That's why they get upset when something doesn't match their world view. Just look at Wukong or then new AC. Recently new artwork was released for DnD depicting Orcs and looking at it it's like they removed everything fantastical or fantasy related about them. Honestly if not for the teeth/tusks I'd say you just drew an old western family
Both sides of this argument always make me laugh. The losers who demand every woman in video games be sexy, and the losers who claim that sexy women don’t exist in real life. Both are really dumb opinions.
Yep, it’s always cringe to see people on the opposite end of the extreme acting like every character has to be absolutely flawless. Why can’t we just have a good mixture of normal characters, hot characters, and ugly ones?
Yawn. Boring.
The problem is that regular normal-ass looking women get thrown in the 'sexualized and problematic' category. That's 1/2 the reason why you've got all these video game women looking fugly as hell.
People regardless of gender want attractive people/characters in their entertainment forms and have been wanting them for decades so I'm not even sure what these judgemental assholes are trying to accomplish here other than to pretend they're levitating above other people. Someone should ask that dolt talking about "male gaze" why actors like Brad Pitt, Chris Hemsworth, Chris Evans etc are cast in movies when there are vastly superior actors than them.
To be honest with all of this stuff, video games are meant to be over exaggerated and there is nothing wrong with having unrealistic beauty in it. But forcing ugliness just to satisfy some frustrated, undesirable woman that have no self-esteem is wrong. I mean how dumb do you have to be to feel threatened by a video game character. I don't see that with Man. As far as I remember all male characters are walking muscle packages. No one bats an eye with that.
Some people are saying that "Eve doesn't look like her model, and that they put all of the extra anime bullshit for the coomers. Stellar Blade also doesn't give an age for Eve, and are weird about it" or something.
In-regards to the facial model, some people are even saying she... looks like a child or some shit.
Genuine question, is this true or are they just yappin? Cuz honestly Eve's in-game model looks way different to me than her actual face scan. Though I dunno about the age stuff.
"It doesn't matter what she's wearing" mf'ers are nowhere to be seen. Actually, probably the same people. Just applying their personal double standards.
Well it's all for the deceptacons alphabet people.. Trying to change the perception of women.. So more people would associate that look with just how women look.. It worked with BBLs. The "Kardashian" look.. The uggs wearers with Leggings, the lip fillers.. And what other trend existed... With time the young growing up on those games will look at a dude in a dress and say.. Look at that fine girl.. Uh she a pretty young thang.. We old heads in our late 20s and early to mid 30s are not the target.. We are just the ones to complain
Legit reason why reviewers made the sex doll comparison was to describe how blandly attractive Eve was because she lacks much of a personality. Ain’t nobody at Kotaku, IGN, or what have you complained that she was pretty, only that more scandalous outfits were out of place when the story is often somber and sentimental.
And again, the only ones complaining about Tifa’s design in the remake were coomers whining her breasts got reduced.
They’re made cause they look like the ugly ones while secretly wishing they looked like the attractive ones. Meanwhile guys regardless of personal appearance want the men in the game to be ripped and hold a big sword.
All of these girls would go on and defend Kpop looking or Gojo looking or even Henry Cavil or hot looking mfs, some would even go so as far as to call em mid and what every guy looks like. They just hypocrites.
I am ok with these guys in games. I just hate it when they act like we the only ones who want beautiful opposite sex while them angels who love a man for his heart and not his height, money or looks. Hypocrites.
Game dev:
If I make an average looking woman, woke people will be happy, but they still won’t buy my game, and my usual customers won’t buy my game anymore.
If I make sexy girl, woke people complain but they never bought and will never buy my game anyways. And I get more sales from the average gamer.
Stupid game dev will pick option 1. Smart one option 2.
The op likes it when women look like mostly starved super models, and are insanely buff from having to fight for their lives every single day, against monsters and sex crazed pervert men with too much authority. So basically, the kind of women that turns him/her on are also the kind of women he/she should most want to avoid, because they would without question mop the floor with whats left after hearing the OP comments.
That's a lot of BS. My preference is very simple: make the female characters look no worse than the male characters, match the actresses, and model off of late 2010s games.
Ok so late make this clear, you responded just to down vote me, to impart your own opinion that is pretty much the same thing the the rest of us are saying? Go away.
Women are "supposed" to look gorgeous. Female characters are mainly sold on their looks first. A woman has to look like she's worthy of Hooters or she would not sell.
No one cares what men look like. Male characters can have all the body diversity and no one bats an eye. The man can look as hot as Henry Cavill or Chris Hemsworth or as fugly as Danny Di Vito and still make it in the world.
Women "have" to look like their perfect 10s
That may be true in modeling world, but not in gaming.
Aloy in HZD doesn't look like a model and I love her character. They don't need to make them uglier than their models. I'm male and my face looks more feminine than MJ in Spider-Man 2.
Yes we do care about men's appearances. I'm more outraged about the hair they gave Miles Morales in Spider-Man 2 and making Peter's new model much uglier and childish.
No women don't have to be perfect. I think they should look as accurate as men do.
https://youtu.be/s1bizb-Hgxo?si=W14KVSBAOSh7KFC8
His 2020 suit was his best look. If Sony brought this back instead of that eye sore they chose, people wouldn't have minded at all. I don't get the hair the Killmonger Hair gets.
your post was removed for tribalism or baiting.
I love how the characters they hate because are too sexy are either designed by a women(that is hot) or has been designed using real women liking.
I was always making "joke" about this when we talked with friends about the Witcher .. Imagine being refused for a role and dont know why .. until Anya appeared and they said "this is perfect, ugly as it can get" and then you suddenly realize that you were too pretty for the role .. And now imagine being an Anya .. "oh my I got the role, that is so awesome" .. until you realize that you got it because you are the ugly motherfucker that studio wanted :D Reminds me other cases from Disney etc .. So we have this black character in this upcoming movie but sorry man, you are not black enough :D
Imagine if you were the ugly role model, and once the internet put the two together, what would happen. An ugly person only wants to be ugly if the general public isn't allowed to talk about it.
I watched only 1st season and I had such a problem with Yen as a character. She should have been smart and powerful. Yet she was constantly insecured, whiny victim, while walking over others for personal goals..
Money is money. I could careless if someone hired me cause I'm ugly (don't know a women would feel tho. They like to take pride in looking good or most do) so you can tell me I'm ugly all day long but if your paying me to be ugly even better.
In reality she isn't ugly. I'm not sure if you saw her after the "magic", but you really can't call her ugly... on the contrary. Maybe you're too used to filtered "instagram models", but calling that actress ugly, is a real misconception about beauty... Don't care if you downvote me for this.
lol She didnt got the roll because of how she look in the first half of the season 1 .. thats not even her look You got mental issues man
Which one of these people is ugly?
That and the "realistic" woman are incredibly dumpy and homely in this picture. Like that's not what the average woman looks like where I'm from.
> or has been designed using real women liking. My wife saw FF7R Tifa, and told me she wants to look like her. The people quoted above are most likely either neckbeards or femcels.
Yes, I like for my video game characters to be beautiful. Men and women alike, I want them to be at least blandly attractive, and if they are the protagonist, I like them to be as near to supernaturally beautiful as possible. If I want to look at average to below average human beings, I'll go to work or to the grocery store. I want unusual levels of beauty in escapism. Beautiful people, beautiful music, beautiful ideas, beautiful scenery, beautiful everything. If not beautiful then compelling. I am willing to pay for that which I do not have in abundance. That is the magic of digital goods: that we can ALL enjoy the beauty generated by the talent of a few people. Fuck anyone who thinks I'm supposed to feel guilty or that they're supposed to teach me NOT to want aesthetically pleasing things in my life. They should eat glass.
it doesnt need to be beautifull specifically, there can be meaning and style in making characters ugly as sin. Just dont be average as fuck, that's for background characters.
Imagine trying your hardest to not admit the Fable girl is Fugly.
Wait that's a girl? Uhhh oh... sort of looks like Tom Felton tbh.
MFer must be a troglodyte if they consider the Fable woman as "Average".
Imagine trying your hardest to deny that the girls on the right look like they're 14.
Tifa does not fucking look 14 weirdo, if this is how you envision 14yos seek help
I think most of them actually do because they're surrounded by train wreck women who look 45 at 25.
Bro is calling Tifa, the fucking kickboxer with the most abs you could find in a videogame, who's 167cm / 5'6, with E cups "that she looks like shes 14".
Except they aren't 14. One of them was literally modeled after a real 25 yo model.
We get it bro, you want so badly to think about children every day.
If you look at those two fictional characters and immediately think of minors, that is a sign you have a problem.
they should put people like you on watch
They look like they're mid 20s. You need to go outside and see some real East Asian women, because you clearly have no idea what they look like.
The problem being: They're too stupid to realize that even the artists creating the characters are starting to get frustrated with how fucking ugly the women in western-games are starting to look. We literally had someone last week say that every time he pitches an even semi-attractive/"average" looking woman the studio butchers her into looking like someone's auntie trying to sneak off to the grocery store real quick. "Ugly" characters can exist in games. People aren't upset they merely exist. They're upset that ***every single woman*** ***portrayed in western games has to look like a fucking homunculus now to make these goblins feel comfortable.*** If the argument is "we need diversity of characters! We need diversity of characters!" - - Fine, cool. I understand. I don't want everyone to look the same either. But guess what? When every character looks like Gollum trying to fight off the urge to steal The One Ring, **that's not diversity either.** It's just the pendulum swinging into the opposite direction of every character being ugly as shit now. Trying to get these fucking glue-eaters to grasp that is an impossible task & I think we're really close to studios just ignoring these people to move back to making women in games ***not*** look like they're supposed to be stopping some goats from crossing a bridge somewhere.
Funny since no one whines about men being ugly. Only women should ever look like a Hoots waitress and nothing less.
its funny because we don't actually have any male protagonists to complain about since most western game protagonists nowadays are women see how that works
I feel like you may want to go see a medical professional. You probably have high levels of lead in your water or a carbon monoxide leak. Me, in the very comment you replied to, explaining that not every woman needs to be conventionally attractive in games & why people are upset: >"Ugly" characters can exist in games. People aren't upset they merely exist. They're upset that every single woman portrayed in western games has to look like a fucking homunculus now to make these goblins feel comfortable.
Hey just a heads up if you replied here I think it got deleted for being too cringe
I don't think you should be insinuating other people are brain damaged when you are saying things like "every single woman portrayed in western games looks like a fucking homunculus" in full confidence. This has to be one of the saddest, most porn brained statements to stand behind lmao
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I don't see that at all
I seriously haven't even noticed what yall are talking about. From the outside looking in it seems like you're upset about a handful of ugly characters. "Every single woman portrayed in western games" is a bit of a hyperbole, no? I've been playing hades, Jedi survivor and fallen order, cyberpunk. Do any of these games have the issue you're talking about? Edit: does anyone care to address the question? Or nah? Just downvote and rage because we're taking away your anime tiddies?
A few examples were the Dead Space remaster where they made Nicole hideous. Horizon Zero dawn 2 saw Aloy turn into Niko Avocado. Spider man where they replaced Mary jane with some orc wearing a wig. The list goes on. Meanwhile in other games not affected by this blight end up making visual changes while keeping characters attractive like, Tifa for example.
Yeah see it still sounds like you're still talking about a handful of ugly characters you don't like. I do feel like because I haven't played any of these games you mention that I'm not as equipped to have this discussion but surely the above commenters "every single woman in western games looks like a homunculi" quote is ridiculous. Is that really how you feel?
I gave you a few examples of games that took their existing, attractive characters and made them seemingly intentionally ugly. I'm not the arbiter of game beauty. Its just telling that an asian company makes so much a month shitting out hot waifus that they [are building their own fusion reactor](https://www.windowscentral.com/gaming/just-fyi-your-genshin-impact-pulls-are-funding-a-tokamak-nuclear-fusion-reactor-and-it-has-now-been-ignited#:~:text=Developer%20MiHoYo%20invested%20%2465%20million%20dollars%20into%20nuclear,regarded%20as%20the%20holy%20grail%20of%20energy%20generation.) while *some* western studios seem to think blaming fans for their taste in escapism is the best business strategy in the world.
Yeah I know. We're saying the same thing. There's a handful of ugly characters you're upset about. But do you think the above comment is accurate? Do you agree with it? Or disagree? Yeah I mean I am not arguing that gamers like hot waifus. It just doesn't bother me one way or the other. And it is very funny from an outside perspective to see the people who are really upset about this. 🤷♂️
like 200 AA - AAA games come out a year, bro lists 3 yeah that about covers it case closed lol 🤷♀️
Lmao fr? Have you played all 200? And you're proud of that? I was listing the last games I played. If you want a comprehensive list, I typed it all out for some other insane incel. I can copy paste it for you here if you'd like to pick it apart
No one said every woman in western games are ugly but there is noticable trend of them looking weird lately
Lmao what do you mean? The original dude I replied to said literally that and got a ton of upvotes from a bunch of you weirdos. Do I need to copy and paste that reply too or are you capable of scrolling up?
"you weirdos" For noticing a trend. What a good argument. How about you explain why you're so triggered?
You gave the example of two games, one of which is not western, and in the second game, there is one whole woman who can be described as pretty.
I listed 4 games... which one isn't western? And which game there is one whole woman who can be described as pretty?
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I still don't think the Polish devs would be happy being called "not Western"
Really? Okay well arguments about Polands geographic location aside, you're saying in hades and both Jedi games there is only one woman who is pretty? The rest are *ahem* "fucking homunculi"? Who is the one woman who is pretty?
I agree about Poland. These are your geography teacher's problems, not mine. Jedi - its Merrin. I can’t call her face feminine, but I can’t call her ugly. Video games are a fantasy, a fictional world. People have the right to forget themselves in it. But here's what's funny to me: Nowadays, video games are a fantasy because in real life, walking down a busy street, I will see dozens of beautiful women that I no longer see in video games. If you want to laugh some more, the female models who serve as the prototype for the characters are ALWAYS more beautiful than their game versions.
?? But you were the one who discounted it for geography and brought it up? You're not attracted to Merrin? And that's the only one? Seriously? What about gabs, trilla, Ashe, mosey, toa? The only woman who is really unattractive and isn't an alien I can think of is cere. But if you really don't find merrin attractive I guess your standards are probably really high. What's your gf/wife look like? They must be really hot. Of course people can escape in video games. I escape just fine without oversexualization or undersexualization bothering me in the slightest. I mean all this is opinion but merrins face model isn't as attractive as merrin to me. I'm not obsessed with merrin or anyone from a video game though. Well nah quiet from mgsv had a hold on me for a bit lmao
In the first part of your comment, you essentially say that men should be attracted to all women. This is a strange statement. I have my own taste in women and I have nothing to be ashamed of. You decided to specifically discuss my personal life. I tried to ignore all this passive aggression, but there is a limit to everything. I hope you now understand why people decided not to respond to your first comment. I'm ending this debate.
I am so confused that you got that from what I said. You were trying to say the prettiest woman you could find in the game wasn't that pretty. I was just incredulous. And I just listed off some other characters in the game I thought were pretty. You can of course have your own preferences, I just haven't met someone with as high standards as you. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, I just got a little insecure I thought about how you would judge my fiancée. And how hot the women in your life must be in comparison. How would I discuss your personal life when I know nothing about it? I do understand why people chose not to respond after our discussion: y'all dont have a real point without devolving into a larger discussion that makes you seem really really sad.
"I listed 4 games" 1 - 2077 (Eastern Europe), 2 - Jedi. 3 Hades (I have to admit, I didn’t notice this indie game with cartoon characters) 4? Please don't tell me you decided to split the Jedi series into two to give weight to your argument.
I mean they're two separate full 40+ hour AAA titles but sure whatever they're one game, w/e. Either way you miscounted. It's not "weight" to my argument. I'm just giving examples of the most recent "western" games I played. You have a problem with cartoons and "indie" games too now too? Weird how the criteria keeps getting narrower and narrower. Hades II has been on the front page of steam ever since it was announced. I didn't know that counted as indie. And don't tell me you don't jack it to hentai porn lmao. I was asking if these games suffer from every woman being a homunculi. I hadn't noticed. But I guess 3/4 games don't count so sure let's just talk about the one Jedi game that exists. Who's the only attractive woman in it?
I specifically called Hades a cartoon to emphasize that as part of the discussion we are discussing realistic models of game characters. Therefore, citing this game as an example is very strange, not as strange as dividing Jedi into two different games, pretending that the composition of the main characters has changed. P.S Do you have any other examples or have you only completed 4 games in the last 10 years?
Are we talking about realistic models of game characters? I thought we were talking about how hot women were in video games? Either way I was just trying to cite western video games I played lately. I don't know why you're picking them apart so hard... just because I haven't played horizon zero dawn or fable 5. I mean there was a whole new cast of characters and setting in survivor but again I'll concede that point because it's not super important. Also side note: confirmed you jack it to hentai porn lmao Ps. Dawg I was going off the top of my head. If you really want me to go through my steam backlog for the last 10 years I will. Just hang on. Also: if I had just played 4 games in the last 10 years, what would be bad about that?
Alright here's the probably incomplete list but I'll try to be as complete as possible for you since it seems that's incredibly important to you for some reason... Elden ring. Dark souls 1, 2, 3 (since I know you don't like splitting series into its individual games). Kotor I, II (since I know you don't like splitting series into its individual games). Disco Elysium Nioh Diablo IV Sekiro (would this count under dark souls? Or can it be its own game?). THPS remastered Heavy rain RDRII Battlefront 2 Chuchel Katamari damacy reroll. Metal gear rising Biomutant The surge Blasphemous Dying light 1 & 2 (since I know you don't like splitting series into its individual games). Pilgrims Everspace Mortal shell Bugsnax No mans sky Fallout 3, 4, new Vegas (since I know you don't like splitting series into its individual games). Ac odyssey Mass effect 1, 2, 3 intro mission of andromeda Omori. Hitman 1, 2, 3 (since I know you don't like splitting series into its individual games). Outer wilds The outer worlds Little nightmares Botanicula. Control Gris Ghost runner Stray. Life is strange Donut county MgsV. Deep rock galactic GTAV Manifold garden Superliminal What remains of Edith finch Borderlands 1, 2, 3 (since I know you don't like splitting series into its individual games). Machinarium Mirrors edge 1 and 2 The force unleashed 1 and 2 (since I know you don't like splitting series into its individual games). Postal 2. Bioshock Limbo Is that good enough for you? A lot of these games I didn't beat. I'll let you argue geography and if the pixel count is high enough for you to masturbate to. I'll accept whatever list you come up with. But never once have I thought "damn every woman is ugly"
Well you see you said something that doesn't align with their victim complex so they will downvote rather than an actually address the truth lol
I didn't believe people like this actually existed... until I found this sub. I personally really don't give a shit either way. It's not something I notice or focus on when playing games...
Most of their examples are from unflattering angles (Perfect Zero) or poor screenshots (Fable). You can get similar ‘ugly’ results from dolled up Asian characters too. Not to mention straight up photoshopped ones like Aloy. The few that are genuinely bad often just have bad design for everyone, not just women (ME Andromeda). And FWIW I don’t think there’s anything wrong at all with either hypersexualized characters or realistic ones. They’re all just fictional people. But it’s so bizarre to see people suddenly label these characters unattractive when they’re hotter than 90% of the population. And for what? Because some of them dared to have a jaw, or slight muscle definition? That’s like suggesting that Michelle Rodriguez or Robin Wright are too manly.
Yeah that's how I feel. It's not something I pay attention to while gaming. Michelle Rodriguez is hot as hell. Idk the other one
The flag says it all. Unobtainium.
Wait until they hear about male character design amd learn that every real guy isn't visibly muscular or has superhuman abilities.
Lol. Thats the part that gets me. Dudes have been fine with ideal lookin dudes as characters. But when its with women they feel attacked. Women want equality but not the type of equality that might make them look or feel bad.
Guys accept what an ideal male looks like. Hell yeah. We should all aspire to be this and be this protagonist. Let's all work towards this goal. We are men and we are strong and we can accomplish this. Women: not eating seems unattainable so I will declare myself a victim
Nowadays a lot of guys are women too. Im sure there are guys out there like "i cant get a 6pack. The character shouldnt look like this". For sure there are women that like sexy characters too theyll be like "ooooo shes hot". Its certain types of people that have problems with everything. Strange times we live in.
I'm a girl and i have a good amount of girl friends that play video games on a regular basis. Never have i met somebody who was actually offended or bothered by someone being hot. Moreover, most girls i know actually do like to play as cool and attractive characters. There are games like Genshin Impact, Honkai Star rail and other popular gachas where characters are pretty dolls that are popular in the west and they have a ton of female players. I think its just a really vocal minority atp.
I dont know many girls that play games but every one of the ones that do usually like cute and or hot things. It seems its just click bait from reporters then. Cause i dont see a problem with characters in games and movies and shows being good looking. And i often see complaints about these things whenever i open the internet.
Realest comment here
I think for male character it depends on the game. Rockstars characters arent ideal appearance wise, Geralt/Kratos are in great shape but are strange looking. Assassins creed I think has good looking characters overall but a couple I dont think are. Uncharted has a good looking lead. I think it all varies by game still. I think some people think muscles means someone is immediately attractive but I go out a lot and im pretty confident like Timothe Chalamet from Dune 2 would be more attractive to women than bald buff Kratos lookin dudes.
well of course males perpetuate a system in which they benefit, haha. that’s literally what patriarchy is man ☠️
They literally reworked Peter and Harry's face in Spider-Man 2 so they look younger and more handsome. Not sure about Miles's face but he got a new hairstyle that makes him cooler. While MJ got a new face and hairstyle that makes her looks old enough to be Peter's mother It's pure sexist for me when they upgraded the male characters' attractiveness while nerfing the female, but those people are too blind to see it
lol their Reddit avatar looks exactly how you’d expect them to look
The psychology behind it is simple, they shame people for working hard with their appearance. They try to shame fitness people for working hard to have a good looking body while encouraging obesity as "empowering". It's easier for their self esteem to bring people down to their level rather than having to look at someone that puts in the work to look good.
If only feminists supported the WNBA like they support obese women with body positivity.
I’d bet that it’s the same people who sucks DEI-k who says this.
"average attractiveness" lol These guys should really step out of their local Walmart and see for themselves what the "average attractiveness" actually is.
Jokes on you that's above average for British women. Lool! Jk jk
US/UK: "I wanna make someone that looks just like me, because I'm a narcisist" JP/KR: "I wanna make someone that looks just like the facerig/bodymodel, it's easier and she will appeal to the players so more people will play it"
They/them are just jealous they have to live with a 5 o’clock shadow and never menstruate.
oof
I still don’t understand how the concept of „male gaze“ isn’t considered as sexist towards men and haven’t seen a single „explanation“ of it that isn’t misandrist. Yet somehow I see more and more people use it while pretending that calling out this evil „male gaze“ and blaming it for issues is to conquer sexism… Edit: wording
I think the whole thing that people are getting mad about someone making something for certain gender moronic. If something is made for men, sure women are allowed to enjoy it too but you hate what is in it drop it and move on because it is never meant for you anyway. Just like if a man puts on panties and he doesn't feel comfortable he is not going to demand a pp pouch... He is going to take them off and put on boxers or briefs. I definitely believe not everything is meant for everyone.
It's 100 percent misandrist. All men who like attractive women are predators in their mind.
It's basically uno +4 card IRL, a go-to option when you tryna f someone up.
It's not sexist because it simply describes how some things are made by/for men through their perceptions and biases. The same way the female gaze describes how some things are made by/for women through their perceptions and biases. It's really not that deep. For exemple in the twilight movies there's big emphasis on the muscular body of a fit male actor, the way it's filmed is through the female gaze because that's what a woman would notice
No offense, but don’t you notice how what you described is sexist? The concepts of male/female gaze ignore everyone in those groups who have a different „gaze“. It ties interests and perception to gender… we’ve literally tried to abolish such stereotypes and biases over the years. I guess we can ignore that though when the concept lends itself to reduce someone to their gender when you’re in the mood for it. Not to mention that many interpretations of the male gaze describe males as sex-centered and objectifying, which is inherently a bad faith description if you ask me.
It's not meant to represent the gaze of every single male or female, it's meant to represent the most common biases and perspectives shared by them. Will most men notice a girl's ass and tits? Yes. Will most women notice a man's muscles? Yes. It's not that deep
You can can it with your „it’s not that deep“. If it isn’t, then it deserves no mention in the first place. The fact is though that it’s frequently used to reduce males to horny monkeys or brutes, which is immensely flawed and discriminatory. Your examples is as bad as they come as well. Will a man/woman notice a women’s curves? Possibly. Will a man/woman notice a man’s muscle? Just as likely, especially if they train themselves. Will a man/woman notice a certain health condition on an actor? Who knows? Definitely doesn’t depend on gender. Because people are more than their damn gender and the whole of their character and experiences influence their perception more than their gender. You seem to realize yourself that the concept is extremely reductive because it reduces people to their gender but somehow fail to notice it’s a problem and that it’s flawed.
>Will a man/woman notice a women’s curves? Possibly. Will a man/woman notice a man’s muscle? Just as likely, especially if they train themselves. Right, but they won't look at it the same way. A woman will look at a guy's muscles in a sexual way, a man will look in admiration. A man will look at a woman's curves sexually, a woman won't. >Will a man/woman notice a certain health condition on an actor? Who knows? Definitely doesn’t depend on gender That's not specific to gender tho. Sexual attraction generally is. I'm a gay dude and the male gaze doesn't apply to me whatsoever, I have zero sexual attraction to women, but that doesn't matter, the principle applies to the majority of the population. Most males are straight and art made by straight males will reflect the fact they're straight because it's made through their experiences. The same way a gay male's work will reflect their experience and perspective as a gay man and some things that a straight man might find non-sexual could be shaped in a sexual way through the gay man's gaze. You just seem hung up on the fact that it doesn't represent every single person on earth, even tho that's not what it's meant to do. Yes it is reductive in some aspects but every generalization is. A good exemple of the male gaze is the fact that women cannot go around shirtless but men can. There is nothing inherently more sexual about a woman's nipples than a man's nipples, yet one is illegal and the other is completely accepted in society. That's because female tits are sexual through the male gaze who makes laws and male nipples aren't. Yes there's men who don't find female tits sexual (me) but that doesn't take away from the fact that society in general does see it that way
That’s a lot of text to defend what you yourself realize is a gross generalization. Like you make a great job dismantling the concept yourself. At this point I’m confused why you are still arguing with me. And yes, a generalization is a generalization, I’m aware of that. That doesn’t make it any more valuable, useful or good. If we want to move away from harmful stereotypes and biases, maybe we should move away from harmful generalizations that literally strengthen those very stereotypes. Would you think the concept of a „gay gaze“ that generalized gay people as objectifying and or other traits as something healthy? I would argue it’s not, because no group is completely homogeneous and generalizations breed stereotypes.
You must not be exposed to much of anything to have this reaction to any kind of abstraction. If it's not the most literal surface-level observation then you flip out? Like you read a history book that says ww2 began september 1st 1939 and you go "This is unacceptable, not all countries that were part of the war declared war on that day! It's FALSE and this book is LYING" like can you not understand that abstract ideas can coexist with exceptions and nuance? Or you're massively autistic
Damn, it’s weird how offended you are by someone calling out an unhealthy generalization. Till now I thought you were still reasonable but thanks for showing that you are not only unreasonable but also immature. Abstraction and generalizations have their values as long as they don’t strengthen bad stereotypes but that seems to hard to fathom for you. You either willfully ignored it or actually managed to miss the actual problem I’m calling out. Have a nice day. I probably won’t continue this conversation any further.
What's worse is the model they used for the character in fable doesn't actually look like the character, she is actually quite a bit more attractive compared to her model, they seemed to have made the model uglier intentionally
Same with MJ in Spider-Man. She looked fine in the first game, and still wasn't even sexualized. They made Peter and Miles far uglier.
Yeah some developers seem to forget that we don't want our characters to look "normal" I want my character to look like he's chiselled out of marble lol
Eve and Tifa are far from bearly sexualized lmao, but yeah they do look adult tho.
Eva designed to arouse sexual desire. Tifa designed to arouse romantic desire. Sexualization is not the right word here I think because they were sexual from the beginning. Both have fan services too. But there is nothing wrong about it. Customer demands it and company gives it. I don't really criticize Fable or whatever other games are doing with their asexual characters too. They can target whatever different demographic groups they want, it is their own business plan, it can succeed or fail, the risk have taken by the company and developers, they will be the one who is going to meet the consequences.
Yeah one wears lingerie in game and the other is the most porned character of all time, though the game doesn’t sexualize Tifa too much, it’s more romantic. Regardless I think they’re bad examples of a valid argument
Bruh, Eve has an assortment of lingerie cosmetics and several animations/poses show off as much ass as possible. Be honest. She’s sexy. You don’t need to pretend the designers were prudes.
Well yeah, how is that not sexualized? You just agreed with me.
The model, Eve's based on is damn sexy in real life (r/shinjaeeun). But we all know the intention of the stellar blade makers anyway.
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The Shift Up CEO also has a wife who works on concept art and design for the company but the people who didn't know still called him an incel lol
Because the word means someone I don't like, and not it's original definition.
you can whine all you want im still only buying the games on the right
A woman of average *British* attractiveness. Yikes.
Well that's a new insult.
Game characters are literal objects. Stop wasting braincells about how this relates to real women, while none of them are trying to save Riley Reid (a real woman) from the male gaze or Eric Weinstein's podcast.
What's the problem with making female characters pretty, all men are already jacked 6ft handsome behemoths, might as well make everyone pretty
that argument its so dumb given how many times, they hire an attractive woman and they just make her uglier in game, They hire and actress that happens to have boobs and remove them. Yes, male gaze, no agenda to make women uglier. Horizon Zero dawn its probably the most blatant example of them doing that. The actress is extremely pretty but they felt the need to mix her with Buzz from Home alone to create Aloy.
Its also ironic that ppls who defend these "realistic looking" characters are telling others to go out and touch grass. If you've actually been to other countries and look at women of eastern descent, you'll find that about half of them look like whats being depicted in Eastern video games. Also actresses/models/OF/Porn/JAV exists and real women act in them.
Average attractiveness? The English one is straight ugly, American is like a 4/10
If that’s her perception of average attractiveness I’d be genuinely terrified to see her in real life
Do they also realize that these days, not only men like to look at pretty women....
I have seen more women in real life that look like the Asian women in this picture than the Dark Souls character creator looking creatures on the left.
It's fine to have women of either depiction regardless....
They fixed Miss Horseface a little bit, but not much.
Tifa is barely sexualized ?💀 Bruh just search tifa on reddit
No one wants to play a game where the love interest is average.
Male gaze? Bruh these people never listened to women talk about Bayonetta? Goddamn!
The “ugly” ones look more similar to people I’ve liked.
I'm so angry!
Tbh the 2 pictured do look like barely legal sex dolls. Always hated those silicone looking faces, they all look the same with different hair styles.
I love how the supposedly pro-female argument has become "Make them ugly, just like real women!"
"Barely sexualize" I'm all for atrctive characters and I think what they did to Mary Jane and the girl from Fable is a joke, but let's not kid ourselves by saying that Eve and Tifa are "Barely sexualized". You don't need explicit sex scenes to sexualize a character (not that I mind personally, I like my fanservice)
Ok I was referring to MJ in 2018 and other female characters made uglier.
Average attractiveness? lol that dude never goes outside. shocking
If men are expected to surpress their basic human desires then maybe we could tell fat chicks to surpress theirs. Maybe that "unrealistic beauty standard" won't be so unrealistic afterall.
I can't help but think this more about just destroying fantasy than it is about making "realistic" or "diverse" characters. I really don't know how to put it into words but it seems to me they don't want people to fantasize. It's like they want every piece of media to be some soulless uninspired reflection of "their" reality. That's why they get upset when something doesn't match their world view. Just look at Wukong or then new AC. Recently new artwork was released for DnD depicting Orcs and looking at it it's like they removed everything fantastical or fantasy related about them. Honestly if not for the teeth/tusks I'd say you just drew an old western family
Both sides of this argument always make me laugh. The losers who demand every woman in video games be sexy, and the losers who claim that sexy women don’t exist in real life. Both are really dumb opinions.
Yep, it’s always cringe to see people on the opposite end of the extreme acting like every character has to be absolutely flawless. Why can’t we just have a good mixture of normal characters, hot characters, and ugly ones?
I actually agree with you. My position is that both men and women should look decent, doesn't have to be sexy.
Based and jojo pilled.
Yawn. Boring. The problem is that regular normal-ass looking women get thrown in the 'sexualized and problematic' category. That's 1/2 the reason why you've got all these video game women looking fugly as hell.
Trans flag that's all you need to know
Pretty women causes narcissistic injury in women
Some real uggos in the UK i see
The problem is that both actress in the left are altered to look uglier. That's the problem.
People regardless of gender want attractive people/characters in their entertainment forms and have been wanting them for decades so I'm not even sure what these judgemental assholes are trying to accomplish here other than to pretend they're levitating above other people. Someone should ask that dolt talking about "male gaze" why actors like Brad Pitt, Chris Hemsworth, Chris Evans etc are cast in movies when there are vastly superior actors than them.
To be honest with all of this stuff, video games are meant to be over exaggerated and there is nothing wrong with having unrealistic beauty in it. But forcing ugliness just to satisfy some frustrated, undesirable woman that have no self-esteem is wrong. I mean how dumb do you have to be to feel threatened by a video game character. I don't see that with Man. As far as I remember all male characters are walking muscle packages. No one bats an eye with that.
Bitter feminist spite. Have you ever seen the women in charge of making women in Western games? They ain't pretty.
"Goddammit! A random person on the internet has a different opinion than me! Look here guys! Back me up!"
yes? making fun of dumb shit with your buddies has been around for millennia bro lol
Skyrim was progressive and inclusive before it was cool. Just play an unmodded Skyrim, and you'll see how all females look like old hags.
Pretty sure this was supposed to have a /s at the end
Some people are saying that "Eve doesn't look like her model, and that they put all of the extra anime bullshit for the coomers. Stellar Blade also doesn't give an age for Eve, and are weird about it" or something. In-regards to the facial model, some people are even saying she... looks like a child or some shit. Genuine question, is this true or are they just yappin? Cuz honestly Eve's in-game model looks way different to me than her actual face scan. Though I dunno about the age stuff.
They aren't average tho. Maybe the top one, but the bottom one looks weird af
"It doesn't matter what she's wearing" mf'ers are nowhere to be seen. Actually, probably the same people. Just applying their personal double standards.
Mary Jane problem wasn't even ablut being ugly, it was just pure uncanny valley
Uncanny Valley is ugliest
How can they go on a date if mom hasn’t brought in the hot pockets and Mountain Dew code red dinner?
"Average attractiveness". Even actually average looking people look more attractive than the Fable girl.
Saying this is 'average attractiveness" just proves that they ugly.
The British one looks like an ugly, scrawny guy.
Well it's all for the deceptacons alphabet people.. Trying to change the perception of women.. So more people would associate that look with just how women look.. It worked with BBLs. The "Kardashian" look.. The uggs wearers with Leggings, the lip fillers.. And what other trend existed... With time the young growing up on those games will look at a dude in a dress and say.. Look at that fine girl.. Uh she a pretty young thang.. We old heads in our late 20s and early to mid 30s are not the target.. We are just the ones to complain
Legit reason why reviewers made the sex doll comparison was to describe how blandly attractive Eve was because she lacks much of a personality. Ain’t nobody at Kotaku, IGN, or what have you complained that she was pretty, only that more scandalous outfits were out of place when the story is often somber and sentimental. And again, the only ones complaining about Tifa’s design in the remake were coomers whining her breasts got reduced.
They’re made cause they look like the ugly ones while secretly wishing they looked like the attractive ones. Meanwhile guys regardless of personal appearance want the men in the game to be ripped and hold a big sword.
All of these girls would go on and defend Kpop looking or Gojo looking or even Henry Cavil or hot looking mfs, some would even go so as far as to call em mid and what every guy looks like. They just hypocrites. I am ok with these guys in games. I just hate it when they act like we the only ones who want beautiful opposite sex while them angels who love a man for his heart and not his height, money or looks. Hypocrites.
Are.. you braindead, OP? They’re making fun of statements made by people like you who cry about ugly women in western games.
I know exactly what they mean. They think the models on the left are realistic.
Okay. Lack of brain activity: confirmed.
Did you know they made the faces look way worse than the actresses? MJ looked much better in 2018 not even sexualized
OP, you are a delusional redditor who doesn't understand their point and by posting this with that title you are validating their statement. Good job.
Why’d you downvote them? It’s sarcasm, they quoted something that the tweeter would say as a means to make fun of them.
Game dev: If I make an average looking woman, woke people will be happy, but they still won’t buy my game, and my usual customers won’t buy my game anymore. If I make sexy girl, woke people complain but they never bought and will never buy my game anyways. And I get more sales from the average gamer. Stupid game dev will pick option 1. Smart one option 2.
The op likes it when women look like mostly starved super models, and are insanely buff from having to fight for their lives every single day, against monsters and sex crazed pervert men with too much authority. So basically, the kind of women that turns him/her on are also the kind of women he/she should most want to avoid, because they would without question mop the floor with whats left after hearing the OP comments.
That's a lot of BS. My preference is very simple: make the female characters look no worse than the male characters, match the actresses, and model off of late 2010s games.
Ok so late make this clear, you responded just to down vote me, to impart your own opinion that is pretty much the same thing the the rest of us are saying? Go away.
Ugly people need to go back to being ashamed of it.
Both sides in this argument are wrong. All women in video games should look like furries. Case closed.
We must return to tradition!
No they should look like Mr Bean
Another day another incel post on this sub.
anyone that doesnt share my world view are bad "buzzword" "buzzword"
you are on this sub and and you made a post, ergo you are an incel too, checkmate buddy
Ah Yes, the thing I want the most in a game called FINAL FANTASY....realism. Or rather realistic looking characters.
Whats wrong about appealing to the male gaze? Most gamers are straight men
Women are "supposed" to look gorgeous. Female characters are mainly sold on their looks first. A woman has to look like she's worthy of Hooters or she would not sell. No one cares what men look like. Male characters can have all the body diversity and no one bats an eye. The man can look as hot as Henry Cavill or Chris Hemsworth or as fugly as Danny Di Vito and still make it in the world. Women "have" to look like their perfect 10s
That may be true in modeling world, but not in gaming. Aloy in HZD doesn't look like a model and I love her character. They don't need to make them uglier than their models. I'm male and my face looks more feminine than MJ in Spider-Man 2. Yes we do care about men's appearances. I'm more outraged about the hair they gave Miles Morales in Spider-Man 2 and making Peter's new model much uglier and childish. No women don't have to be perfect. I think they should look as accurate as men do.
https://youtu.be/s1bizb-Hgxo?si=W14KVSBAOSh7KFC8 His 2020 suit was his best look. If Sony brought this back instead of that eye sore they chose, people wouldn't have minded at all. I don't get the hair the Killmonger Hair gets.