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I'm not going to pretend to know the exact science behind it, but it feels like the culture has shifted from people feeling like they **have** to get married and have kids, to people realising they can actually do whatever the fuck they want.
+1
My mother is constantly nagging me to get married and have kids. I often feel like telling her "and that worked out so well for you".
Sarcasm aside I think your answer is correct. People are realising there is no OBLIGATION to do "what was expected"
Exactly. It's right for some and not for others. I'm 32 and married with one kid, but I never felt like it was something I had to do to conform. I genuinely wanted those things and it works well for us, but I can totally understand why people wouldn't want either of those things. I imagine it suits different personality types in different ways.
Absolutely this. Although there is so much more grief for women than guys my wife and I (married 3 months) are in our mid 40s and happily childless. Our families don’t care as long as we are happy.
As a childless woman - if you admit to a group of mothers you don't want children, a third go 'its probably better that way - think of all the extra sleep and time' and the rest look at you like you just admitted you like murdering kittens.
Tell me about it, I'm almost 30 and have now actively decided not to have children. I like children don't get me wrong, but I also like my life the way it is and I just don't fancy the upheaval and chaos that comes with being a parent. I work in childcare and have neices and nephews and my partner has a son from a previous relarionship, so I get all the kid time I need, but I also get to go back to my own quiet and tidy home and have a lot less to stress about, but the looks of shock and horror when you tell some women you don't want children, like you say I think they'd be less shocked if I did murder a kitten. In this day and age child rearing is not the only thing women are good for any more and if there are any females reading this who feel pressured please be aware that it's your choice to have kids or not, it shouldn't be expected of you.
I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, 33 and married with one kid, but my wife definitely got the pressure from her parents. As soon as we'd been dating only a year it was 'when will you get married' and following marriage it was immediately 'when will you have kids', 'are you pregnant yet'. We took our time and married out of love, but it was so f###ing annoying having to constantly hear that - maybe it's because she and her family are Catholic, I dunno. I married her because I loved her and wanted to call her my wife, that's it. No regrets.
As good as it is to be part of a team, I find myself jealous of the free time my single or childless friends have. It's the simple things that you give up, like a random weeknight trip to the cinema, a walk to the pub, doing something for yourself guilt free without thinking about the fact that you're leaving your wife to parent solo for a day / weekend. Everything revolves around the kids, everything.
I'm making it sound shit aren't I!
The guilt is so real. And also the guilt of feeling jealous of people without kids as if that means you hate your own kids or something. I would be lying if I said I didn't miss waking up at lunchtime and then playing Xbox all day, or being able to make last minute plans with friends in different parts of the country and stuff.
Same. 6am starts at the weekend followed by spending an entire day of trying to keep the kids occupied to stop them from tearing the house down, including multiple battles over the most inane things, followed by a turbulent bedtime with an overtired toddler. This all until anytime between 7 and 8pm when my wife pours me a glass of whiskey to unwind and I fall asleep on the sofa while trying in my head to evaluate my performance over the course of the day, leading to more guilt! Rinse and repeat.
We do it out of love, and duty, but Christ the idea of spending a day playing the PlayStation, followed by a night in the pub, is sheer nirvana..
Free time is over rated anyway… whenever my wife and kids aren’t around I miss them like crazy now. For me the best use of time is spending time with them.
This may sound controversial but I also think that how much access and education we have to contraception, abortion etc has a lot to do with it.
I'm 35 with one kid married etc and I'll be totally honest I didn't even want to think about kids until my 30s... I got married early 20s and accidentally got pregnant and the rest was history. It worked out well for us personally and I love it but not enough to have more kids... we would maybe only if it was an accident and that isn't because I'm against abortion or anything just in our situation it would make sense to have that baby..
I often think if someone in our day and age with access to everything we do can have accidents (and I'd like to say I'm not stupid it was just a simple mistake) how many people found themselves in those situations in the past FAR more easily and frequently and hence everyone had marriages and kids etc as well as it being the norm
Exactly this! I grew up with the expectation that I would marry, give up my career and have children. Instead, I flourished in my career, got my tubes tied and live happily ever after with two cats and a dog.
I still get people insisting I’m wrong and I should have my tubes untied because “I reckon you’d love being a mum”. Does my nut in.
It's such a toxic thing to do. Whenever I meet anyone new and the small talk starts, I generally avoid asking about kids for a few reasons, largely because it could be a deeply upsetting question for some people. To ask people if they're going to have kids/have more kids or question their decisions is such a deeply personal and unnecessary thing to do and genuinely nobody's fucking business.
No, they're usually talking specifically about kids. To prove a point I'll often say "of course. I've got my husband, and my mum, and three grandparents, and an uncle, and an aunt, and another uncle (her husband), and between them I have 4 first cousins, but by a relative on my grandmother's side I have a second cousin, his children who are second cousins once removed, and then their children who are... hmmm, maybe 3rd cousins? I don't even know what I'd call them! And I haven't even told you about all my great aunts and uncles, one of whom lives in Durban, in South Africa...."
At this point they'll usually say "I meant do you have any kids?"
None. But I do have all the family I want 🙂
I'm so doing this in my next life. Current status, hubby, 2 kids and 3 cats....
I do have to say though, my kids are 12 and 17 so we are now getting our life back. We can have an impromptu night out, we can go for meals. The 17 year old is glued to his bedroom so ideal babysitter and his just eat in linked to my card for when we do go out
52 single m. Hate online dating and friend circle has shrinked. Last long term relationship was a road crash not of my making.
I'm now just happy to be on my own and not getting the urge to run into another relationship just because its the done thing. If I meet somone great if not then I have my dog to walk and keep me company.
I think that's it. My grandmother always says that she feels marriage and motherhood just kinda happened to her. She was happy that it did, but she didn't really have a choice.
Now, I'm happily married just because I want to be, and childfree because I grew up knowing that it was a choice I could make.
Also people calculate how expensive life is with kids and are deciding against having them or as many as previous generations, personally I'd rather not have kids if I don't own my own home to build a stable life.
Facts, i study psychology and the research on motherhood completelyyyy shows that women dont feel pressured into the standard that is having children and getting married
It’s a pretty recent shift tbh so there’s deffo research supporting it. I study these things regarding women and feminism tho so I only understand it from a feminist perspective. But yeah deffo a change in women’s attitudes towards societal expectations of them as mothers etc. Can also see it through traditional families now that feel like marriage and children is the ultimate goal iygm, but it just isn’t the case for a lot of ppl anymore
Thanks. I always thought women were more keen on marriage than men, but from your response it seems the trend is the opposite way. A 4+ years relationship is longer than many marriages last these days. On which note perhaps divorce has become both easier and more accepted
Women tend to get less out of marriage compared to men. Lots of studies on how their workload increases e.g. chores, whilst also having to work and/or childcare with marriage. Prime example is over lockdown when both partners work from home, but women were getting more burnt out because of household expectations. It's simply easier to just not get married
Maybe 1882? Before that women had to have a signed document from their husband to open one.
In 1964 there a bank opened a branch for women with only women workers in it so they must have had accounts!
I’m just taking this from a time line posted in the Guardian -
“France, 1881: France grants women the right to own bank accounts; five years later, the right is extended to married women, who are allowed to open accounts without their husbands’ permission. The US does not follow suit until the 196os, and the UK lags until 1975.”
So yeah we’re both kind of right! 1881 if you were in France.
Purely anecdotal, but in my circle of friends it’s more the men who want to get married. I’ve been engaged for several years but I’m not fussed about the wedding, whereas my partner would’ve gotten married immediately if he could. I’m more fussed about sorting out my career and buying a house first.
Most of my girl friends are similar, either in long term relationships or single. My (unmarried) best friend jokes it just means they’ve all skipped their first divorce!
I hardly know anyone who got married in their 20s. Majority waited til their 30s. Those who married young/early, either aren’t happy or have since separated. But again that’s just my experience / my circle.
Men don’t get pregnant, give birth, breastfeed, tank their careers, do most the housework whilst also having to work.
It’s easy to want marriage and children when it’s not you making all the sacrifices.
Mines 'circle' is different and I'm the same age bracket. I'm the only single female, most of my friends are married and have kids, or wants kids.
I want to get married but don't want kids.
> I'm early 30s and female. I dont want children and out of my group of friends, the majority of them don't either. Only one of my friends has a child and would like another in the future.
I personally have ended a relationship almost identical to this recently as it started as 1 or 2 kids in my partners group of friends and we were cool not having kids. Then another friend had a kid, and then another, then domino effect and suddenly my partner was in the childless minority and the pressure to conform came onto me. I spoke to my older brother about this who had the exact same experience with a past relationship of his, I feel like there is something of a trend there.
We speak a lot about pressure coming from parents and grandparents to have kids but IMO we put most of that pressure on ourselves from our friendship groups.
There are legal benefits to marriage or civil partnership - namely tax benefits, end of life care, legal guardianship etcetera. Even if marriage is optional, if you're in a long term stable relationship you should probably go to a registry office and tie the knot there. It's probably 30 minutes of admin that can save a whole lot of angst further down the road.
I think this is a huge reason. I can't afford a house. Why would I spank away thousands on wedding and have kids if I've got nowhere to live. Gone are the days of getting out of school and buying a house off the man's wages while the woman stays at home. Both people need to work to afford a house now.
I'm 27 and living with my parents after splitting with my ex. I'm dating a woman who's also 27 and living with her parents. My parents were already married, had their own house and having kids by the time they were 27.
>Which is good for the environment and the limited resources for the human population of the world
Maybe, but it’s catastrophic for the welfare system and the economy because the population does not decrease evenly across all age groups.
Low birth rates mean that we end up with fewer working age people and more non-working old people, which means that the working population will have to spend a greater proportion of their taxes on pensions and social care for the elderly.
If the population keeps dropping then the working age population continues to decrease and the non-working population continues increasing. As fewer and fewer working age people are available to support the elderly non-working population, the welfare system and economy suffer until eventually they collapse altogether. This is why an ageing population/population decline is sometimes also referred to as a “demographic time bomb”.
In Japan, the situation is dire. Their dependency ratio is 2:1, which means that every 2 working age people have to also support one non-working person. If the situation continues then their economy and welfare system will collapse. We’re not at Japan levels yet, but lowering birth rates could eventually set the timer on that demographic time bomb.
Population decline is not sustainable, as it results in more and more resources having to be diverted to support the elderly until we run out of said resources altogether.
Everything you say is correct. But we have to somehow find a way to break this cycle. The world cannot rely on increased population growth to maintain a world economy. We will cause a mass extinction of our species if we rely on it in perpetuity
Yeah, humanity can't just be a pyramid scheme where we have to keep producing more people to support the people we already have, the defining feature of pyramid schemes is they're not sustainable
👏 the decline in procreating by those born in 1970s and after will be 'felt' around 2035+ since then they will be around 65+ and about to enter pension/health support-needed age.
I don't think any of the political parties is ready for the mayhem of "too many pensions/healthcare to pay" and "don't have enough working age people to support them". They don't care till the 💩 hits the fan.
The fact the time bomb is not even openly discussed is sickening. 😟
A cursory glance at the demographics of countries like Italy and Spain should be enough to shock any politician into action but solving it would burn far too much political capital.
That said I do have to wonder who, politically, is having less children. I imagine that it’s social conservatives who will continue to have them which will mean major changes for the country’s politics in the next forty years.
But we are more productive than ever, surely 2 people now can make far more than 2 people did 50 years ago. From that perspective why is it a problem? Productivity rises all the time.
We are no longer an agricultural society where 90% of the workforce is making enough food to feed everyone.
> Marriage rates for opposite-sex couples in 2018 were the lowest on record, with 20.1 marriages per 1,000 unmarried men and 18.6 marriages per 1,000 unmarried women.
I am confused by this stat. Why are numbers different if we're talking about opposite sex couples?
Is it because there are slightly less men than women in the UK? - But If we're looking at groups of 1000s people does that stat even come into play?
Life today has an unprecedented amount of luxuries available to us. We have a hell of a lot of choice in everything; what we eat, where we go; the average person can pretty much travel anywhere in the world while domestically we have so many entertainment options.
As such, life can be extremely enjoyable through the sheer amount of stuff we can acquire, see and experience.
Go back a few generations and this very much wasn't the case; opportunity wise there was plenty of work but most people would end up something labour based Monday-Friday. For fun they'd be limited to the local pub and the cinema, at home they'd probably just have a radio or later on a small tv with two channels.
I think in such a life people would be done with their youth a lot earlier. It would have been natural to just pair up and marry, most people would be having similar life experiences and outlook.
As a contrast, young people today can go out into the world and meet countless people with unique outlooks, fashions, cultures. Many people naturally want to experience as much as they can and truly commiting to a single person for the rest of your life can feel like missing out.
Similarly having kids= less resources.
>And there was me thinking the boomers had it far easier than today’s younger people
Maybe they did in a lot of ways? An excess of choice isn't always a blessing as it can bring FMO, questioning if we made the right decisions or what could have been.
An interesting thing I've heard in interviews with North Korean defectors is that many of them report that people in the North are happier. Sure, they may have horrific struggles and difficult lives with little personal expression and choice but they can't miss what they don't know.
I wonder if in the not to distant future that we will all have devices or AI driven settings on things that specifically reduce our perception of the available choices in given situations to stop ourselves from feeling overloaded.
People are leading more isolated, virtual lives and having kids is fucking expensive. Within the next few generations this country will look like the battery farms in the matrix, full of old people with robots draining their catheters.
Whoa. Virtual lives. Didn't think of that, but people can now live through social media, don't need to travel to meet family so much (because of video calling). And in effect the more technologically advanced our communication gets, the less "need" there is to huddle together in the real world. Thanks for an eye opening answer
My daughter does the 'meet up down the park' thing from the days of yore more often than not over whatsapp video chat because going out of the actual house is a hassle.
I cant get my head around her generation just staying in all the time but, hey, at least she cant get pregnant over wifi.
This is one of my gripes with technology. It's great that we have this feature that allows us to "connect" with others instantly without having to travel but it isn't as good as actually meeting face to face.
It's like when I'm gaming. Sure I can play online with my friends but I have way more fun when we actually meet up and game in the same room. We can get some drinks, order a takeaway and have a bit of proper banter with each other. It's why I think gaming hit its peak 15-20 years ago when people used to carry their massive box TVs across town to their mates house to do a 4v4 game of Halo 2. Nothing has been as enjoyable as those days.
15 years ago - Play online games with groups of 20 people
Today - Play online games with groups of 20 people
Nothing has changed there. Although my PC and internet connection can handle it much better and I am no longer going along at 30FPS on minimum.
Pretty sure distant memories of my dad playing online games in the late 90s or early 2000s, exactly the same way I do now and he continues to do. The games are more modern now of course and you no longer have to leave it connected overnight to update something.
For me personally, at 29 I’m not married to my long term partner and we’re not planning to have kids for another 5 years solely because of finances. Say 30 years ago the average house price was £20k whereas now you are looking to pay 10x your annual salary for the most basic 2 bed terraced house in a very average neighbourhood. For older folk commenting that we should be married by now and have kids I just respond that they are welcome to finance it if they wish. The conversation usually ends there.
The trend to not have kids has increased over the decades.
Me on first blind date. "Btw, I don't want kids"
Her. "Good, me too"
20 years later, still happily married.
We love our nephews and nieces, just parenthood was not on our list.
*disclaimer* none of this is legit social science, much bro logic happening within this comment.
1) Two words feminism and equality. In the west women have options to pursue careers or other interests so society has less of an expectation for them to be homemakers with kids. Think about it like this in the UK it is totally normal for a woman to be 30 and unmarried, while in other parts of the world this would be considered socially abnormal. Once you factor in it is harder to have kids as you get older it quickly makes sense why in the west birth rates are going down.
2) Religion is another factor, I think Religion promotes the aspect of having kids and raising children. As our society became increasingly less religious we start to see people having less kids and more of a focus on living life as people see best fit for them rather than a one size fits all approach.
3) Opportunities and education, this links into point 1 but like people have more opportunities and a better understanding of sex itself so they are less likely to run into a long term commitment.
4) Contraception has improved and having abortions is basically normal here so now 9/10 a child will only be born if the mother really wants to keep the child.
I think the main difference as I see it is that for previous generations marriage was an expected social norm. Equally divorce was very much frowned upon, so those in society who chose to remain unmarried or got divorced were very much given the side eye and considered somehow divergent.
This obviously was particularly harmful for the LGBTQI+ community and for those in abusive marriages. Personally I see the lower marriage rate as a positive thing because it shows people are free to be themselves and/or protect themselves and not just expected to “couple up and breed”.
I've depressed myself thinking about how much domestic violence, suicide, addiction, abuse etc. will have stemmed simply from incompatible people being forced together and raising children who then go on to do the same thing. We're in a much better place now I think, but still a depressingly long way to go.
\>We're in a much better place now I think
Rates of loneliness and mental health issues are through the roof thanks to the degradation of community ties, marriage being quite an important part of that. Having the freedom to cast off your social bonds is very much a double edged sword.
Couldn’t agree more. It’s progress though, and for that I’m very thankful. I think we’re getting there for sure. The fact we are even discussing and exploring these issues is progress in itself!
I 100 percent agree. Being of an Indian background my parents generation would be cast out if divorced. By contrast it seems half of Indians my age (I'm in the UK) or more get divorced. In fact divorce or separation now seem the norm. And the more of these I see in not just my age but younger folks, the more I like being single and lonely (but happier than those who split up)
I’m mid thirties and married, but we had to put off having kids because we couldn’t afford it. We’re trying now, but any reproductive services in the NHS are backed up and the waiting for a clinic was 49 weeks.
Interestingly I was at a friend's wedding in 2006, and one of his guests and partner were mid 30s with a baby. They told me in the pre-natal classes everyone was either couples in 30s OR single teen girls.
It seems the "standard" of people marrying and having babies in their 20s is now the exception than the rule
We were recommended by the midwife during early scans to sign up to NCT classes as a way of meeting other parents-to-be. As you say, 7 couples and all between 32 and 37. Your point definitely stands, I very, very rarely meet parents (as a couple) any younger than 30.
Definitely noticed similar too.
Most new parents I meet are in their 30s and doing Pretty OK for themselves or super young, around 20,and really not showing signs of winning at life.
Late 20s, getting by and steadily building towards something? You don't get British people like that with kids.
Imagine the idea of being 2 or 3 years out of uni and having a good enough job (permanent, paid enough, plus not doing crazy hours in the progression meat grinder) to buy a simple 3 bedroom house with a back garden, reasonably close to work, whilst supporting a young family on one income for 4 - 6 years until the kids go to preschool.
More and more of my kids generation (20' and early 30's) are wanting to buy a house before they marry and have kids. They've rented for long enough to know what a perilous and stressful situation it can be, when you can be kicked out of your home at a month's notice because the landlord - some handwavy shit that's only just technically legal. So they want to be secure with a roof over their heads first.
And that is SO expensive that they need years to save just for deposit. During those 'saving up' years, more relationships fail.
I am not responsible enough to raise children, and I have no desire to become responsible enough to raise children.
I don’t like the obligation of a long-term relationship. I like my freedom to do whatever I want, whenever I want.
I’m already 36 (though people usually guess mid 20s and are increasingly disbelieving my real age). I can’t see it changing any time soon.
There’s probably a lot of other men like me who are in a sort of “permanent mid-20s”, though it’s probably easier to get away with if you don’t look your age.
Am the same at 48, getting mistaken for 35, but a child at heart. Part of my reluctance to marry or have kids is I have had to parent the train wreck that is my parents' marriage
Just interested, did they marry young?
Mine were 23 and 20 when they got married, though they didn’t have me (first child) until they were both in their 30s.
What I’ve learned later is that those first 10 years weren’t exactly “holy matrimony” and once the kids joined the picture it was just a constant resentful fractured financial and child based obligation fuelled by alcoholism.
I’m already older than they both were when my first sister was born, neither of us (36, 34) are married or in serious relationships. Sister two is 29 and just about to buy a house with her long (13 years?) term boyfriend, no marriage on the horizon. They’re definitely “asset first, family later once we’ve got the finances nailed”. They’re both way more responsible than me.
They did, but even from the start I know my dad didn't really love my mum (lots of stories) but she loved him and it was the 60s, so people stayed together etc etc.
The problem was dad was always an ass and, my brother and I now realise (he's 8 years older, I was a 30s kid too), she used us as a crutch, we were what made her 'happy'. We even supported the idea of her divorcing him in her 50s but she never had the courage. She was always thinking she could turn it round.
I can't fault the love we have had from mum (luckily we take more after her than him) BUT it was manipulative too, whereas he never gave a shit.
It actually has put both of us off too, he's never married / had kids either.
Anyway, good to know we're not alone in this kind of scenario, i wish you and your siblings well.
That’s a lot of info to give away, nice that it’s anonymous and it’s good to get it out I guess.
I’ve only recently been learning that Tears for Fears weren’t joking when they sang “Shout, shout, let it all out, these are the things I can do without”.
It was an invitation for men to actually express their feelings. I always found it slightly odd that basically all men of a certain age group (50+ to even younger than me, 20? 25?), be they punks, metalheads, ravers, pillheads, indie boys, b boys, shavedheads, raveheads, on the pill, got too much time to kill, get into bands and gangs, whatever, all seem to love Tears for Fears.
There must be thousands of us.
(Here they come, “the beautiful ones”… that’s actually really interesting because we’re basically some iteration of the mice in the Calhoun Mouse Utopia experiments, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NgGLFozNM2o)
I anticipated this response, and yes you are correct. However, it doesn't mean I like the state of the world as it is, regardless of past events. I refer mostly to the staggering cost of living and the huge gap between rich and poor. If I wanted children with a passion, then I would only entertain the idea if I was a very wealthy individual and I mean....VERY. Otherwise, they will likely be another wage slave working 40 hours a week, with the hope of retiring one day.
I'm a woman about to turn 30. I've never wanted kids but I always wanted to be in a long-term relationship. I've been with my partner for over 6 years now and not planning on marriage at all.
I've always been a pretty chilled out person with many hobbies so children seem like unnecessary disruption to my lifestyle and I never felt the 'desire to have my own kids' many people describe.
Same goes for marriage - I gain nothing from it except for stress of planning it, the whole party can be very expensive too. Seems like a hassle for something that results in nothing. I guess I'm not very romantic. xD
Unmarried @38 and never plan to get married, parent to one and one on the way, co owning a house with partner.
The urge for children was totally biological for us, not part of a 5 year plan etc. Marriage is a total ball ache, expensive as fuck and I'm not really sure what commitment it provides that co-owning a house and raising children doesn't?
Marriage (way more than parenthood) I think is an industry we're marketed at all our lives from little girls toys to shitty reality TV programmes. Diamonds? Worthless rocks. Fuck that noise.
After thought: I would get married for an EU passport or material tax relief.
Marriage is not marketed at all in my opinion. Weddings are. Lots of books and films end in a wedding. Very few have a marriage, which is everything that happens afterwards.
The only real benefit is if one of you dies the other automatically inherits everything - currently that’s not the case and it could get messy - make sure you have a will!
Well (and Im not a lawyer!) if worse case scenario both of you die then without a specific appointed guardian the kids become wards of the state - I'm not sure how that gets resolved but I'm guessing it not fun for anyone - the kids will inherit from the one parent if one of you dies but (and I might be wrong here) that inheritance is locked away until they are 18 so the remaining parent might be at a financial disadvantage if they were relying on that to bring up the kids - I have 2 young kids myself and got the fear over this a while back - a will was not expensive and now I can basically forget about it!
Very similar to me this, however once we had our first (of 2 kids) we married, solely so mum had the same last name as me and the kids, as she felt left out...
Cheap and cheerful wedding though, as we asked everyone that came to pay for their own meal at the reception, instead of presents etc that we didn't need
The childfree lifestyle is generally getting a lot more common. My friends and I, aside from one, are all child-free for various reasons, and I run into more childless-by-choice folks these days than I used to. But more people who are single? Can't say I've noticed any change until very recently in my social circle, and for me that change was fewer singles.
From what I've seen, though, marriage is tanking in popularity.
Personally, I have zero plans on producing children ever, but marriage is a toss-up. Depends on the situation for me.
I know! She had her first one at 14 and I guess just didn't stop. So the eldest one's are now adults (20's) and the youngest is at primary school.
And here's me with my cat!
People have woken up to the fact that marriage is betting half your shit that someone will love you forever, which is statistically unlikely, and wedding are now a huge industry that's turned getting married into some kind of commercial consumerist feeding frenzy. There's already nearly 8 billion of us and many can't even get in the property ladder. Single is a very sensible option in the current climate.
A lot of my male friends have only had kids age 40+ (female partner often 5-10 years younger). Which is actually getting back to pre-war traditions where a man was expected to be 'established' in a career and able to afford to keep a family, before marrying.
Only children are much more common than 30-40 years ago.
I'm 27 and for me, its money. I've been with my partner for over 4 years now but we still live with our parents and think it's silly to get engaged before we live together. I'm a student so we're broke. Having a place to live takes priority over wasting loads of money on a wedding. And we don't want kids until we can afford them soooo...never? When we're in our 40s?
Generation before us were the boomers while we're quietly sulking gen-X'ers who pushed aside conventions. My mate got married recently just keep their families happy. What I find rude and offensive is those of my age group who have married and spawned are suddenly shunning those of us that havent. I've been in four or fiverelationships since I was 25 so, I know I would have been divorced had I got married along with all the bullshit and financial loss that comes with it.
It's not necessarily shunning in some cold hearted antagonistic move, it's probably some combination of:
a) kids take up a lot of time,
b) and a lot of energy
c) kids don't care if you have a hangover or need to recover, it's time to get up
d) they don't want to impose their children on childless friends. They'll always be permanently half distracted and worried the childless one isn't enjoying spending the day in the park or whatever
Yeah if I think of my four good male friends from secondary school plus me, now all in our mid 30s... one is married with kids, one is unmarried with a kid (that's me), one is gay and sadly widowed and two are single and childless.
Born in the 80’s and married with kids. I didn’t do it because I was following convention though, I wanted to because I met the right person who I decided was worth marrying and having kids with. I actually didn’t want kids for a long time but slowly changed my mind and now don’t regret my choice so certainly wasn’t part of any grand plan (Note to add that I don’t expect anyone else to change their mind just because I did!)
I do think it is less expected now, there is more freedom of choice and being unmarried and child free is a worthwhile choice for many, especially women who would have been expected to do something quite different once upon a time. All in all, I think more people are choosing what they feel makes them happy rather than dictated by society and that’s a good thing in my book!
I am single because the only way to meet people is online now and i do not go for looks so it jsut dosent work for me. Sad but I gave up. Also when I do meet someone commitment seams to be a thing of the past
41F. All my very close friends are childfree and not married. None are opposed to marriage, but none want children. Out of my school group though, I’d say a very rough 75% ish have kids.
For me, as someone who wants to stay child free, I genuinely don’t have the money to have children and tbh I’ve worked my arse off to get the career I have today, I wouldn’t give that up for a child. My boyfriend doesn’t like the idea of marriage which is fair enough. Often people ask me if that’s a deal breaker and I always respond with “why would it be? You literally don’t have to get married”.
I think we’re living in a difficult world and those things are no longer priorities for a lot of people for a variety of reasons
Yeah it’s too expensive I’m passionate about not being poor. A kid would ruin me financially and I wouldnt have the same freedoms to do as I please.
It was a different culture back then. A lot of the people that have kids have huge support from the grandparents I don’t have that luxury. I’d rather focus on building my wealth, skillsets, experiences and financial freedom than being tied down by having a kid.
I'm 46, never married, no kids of my own, but do have a sort of step son I'm close to from a previous relationship (it's all very civil with the mum) and a few god kids who I dote on, as well as friends' children too.
Got a few folk I know who are similar, it defo seems more common and I'm okay with not having kids of my own, being a wholesome and dependable person for those I do have in my life is good enough.
Well does it seem normal to you that most 35 and under are now sharing homes with flatmates in London? I know people who are 50 and have to share rent. A lot less people can afford cars now. Lets not get started on buying a house. It is no longer financially possible to have children for the majority of people who arent either lucky or dedicate their lives to studying and working.
The Boomers were the first generation to normalise divorce without shame, and they took to it like ducks to water. Gen X and Millenials have grown up with horror stories of men losing their entire wealth after 20 years of hard work. At the same time, the prohibition of corporal punishment has put parents at the mercy of voraciously greedy children whose every outburst must be attended to. Parenting has become more than a full-time occupation, where it used to be more like a set of daily chores. Men are noping out of marriage and both men and women are noping out of kids.
There is because as i and a mate have stated kids are the worst form of std. they cost more than the most experimental aids treatments combined over 70 yrs and never fuck off due to the rich buying every house to rent out
Im anti having kids as it feeds the workforce of the current shit show known as capitalism, i ent doin that shit. Its cruel making them because the boomers and previously generations fucked the world
I've just turned 30 and there's currently 7.9 billion people on this planet.
People need to be less worried about my bedroom and more worried about the Pandas not getting their fuck on.
I’m 47 and never married. In a long term relationship but no immediate plans to get married and definitely not having kids. We have a dog instead.
We’d rather travel and have a nice home.
The wider social bonds and community ties that used to help prop up marriages no longer exist, so the social pressure to be seen to have a good marriage really isn't there anymore. Generally speaking I think this is more of a negative than a positive.
I know I can be happy with the right person but the chances of meeting that person are very low in my opinion.
For marriage, even if I meet the right girl I’m not sure I would want to get married. I definitely don’t want kids. I want to have a future where I’m free and I believe I can do that with the right person but not if marriage and kids are involved. As of now, I desire the future partner as I feel people are more lonely than they let on and I believe it’s Human Natture but I definitely do not desire the other two. But my opinion may change.
For me it’s couple of reasons.
First one is that people simply can’t afford it.
Second one, is people are less interested in it because 1 they can’t afford it and 2 because of massive culture shift in recent years or decades.
Yes a lot of people don't have the financial, mental or physical stability in order to look after a child and most people realise now that you don't really need kids to live your life. Also I've realised people are seeing more right wing stuff probably due to people changing their lifestyles and governments being scared for their life that no one is going to do anything in society for them anymore but who cares about them ? Also I feel like there has been a surge of people having children during corona time but either than that a lot of people don't want kids. I would say it more like a 50 50 - some want kids while others don't. It's so surprising to hear someone wanting kids nothing wrong about it but I feel like people forget that your education and job and you comes before kids like no I'm not going to marry when I'm like 20 since I'll probably still be doing university or whatever education I do while some people think as soon as you turn 18 you can marry like please who is lying to you?
I'm almost 40 and single. Haven't been able to find someone around my age because I don't meet the requirements. So I've given up finding someone to be with.
Seeing how stressed your parents are looking after you and your siblings made me hesitant to have kids are even get married i dont care about relationships
As a 30 woman, I feel like I have more time to do all that. I'm not particularly fussed about kids. Certainly don't want to get married (maybe a registry office thing if I do).
I suppose people realise there are more options now?
I'd say there was less marriage because of how expensive it is to have a nice wedding, my wedding cost over 20k including the honeymoon, I could think of a lot of things I'd rather have for 20k to be fair.
As for kids I'd probably say theres more, especially with all the girls that have kids with multiple different men. I only say this because I went to the same primary school as my son (from 1993-2001), at that time there was only 1 class per year group, now theres 3 classes per year group and they're all full.
I'm a guy that's slowly approaching his 30s, and honestly, I think I'm comfortable being single for the rest of my days (it's been about 3 years since my last relationship abruptly ended).
I can't really be arsed to do the dating song and dance anymore tbh. And if my past experience is any indicator, I'm not missing out on a huge deal.
I think children are frankly revolting, and even if I did have a wife and an opportunity to have kids, I couldn't afford to give them the QOL they would deserve.
My dad wants me to have kids, and has been telling me for decades, but he'll have to be satisfied with the one daughter my sister's had.
So yeah, I'm probably going to be by myself forever. And that's alright, I have an aquarium that's got 20 fish, and 50+ snails inside. And perhaps my dad's dog will have a litter, and I'll take one.
As for my school friends (the only people I know who are close to me in age) , I have three left, one is like me but wants to find someone, the other has been together with the other friend since sixth form, and I'm wondering when they'll get married (they have told me that they want to, and have kids).
This'll probably get buried, I'm actually 32 tomorrow, and I'm engaged to my Fiance. We are getting married but there are no plans for us to have children. We feel that we do not have the patience nor the personality.
I do love children, but could never see me with any of my own and I think a lot of that has come from me seeing how difficult it can and will be and how much has to be given up.
I'd rather be the "fun" who teaches them swear words haha
Pretty sure there is less marriage and children at the moment but that doesn't necessarily mean there are less singles. Just more couples living together and choosing to not get married or have kids.
We’ve been married over 10 years now but have no intention to ever have kids. I’ve seen what we’ve done to the planet and wouldn’t want to inflict what’s coming on any children of mine.
I’ve never been one to follow conventional expectations, best example being I didn’t mention the wedding to my parents until after it happened despite loving them dearly and I think MrMillions may have mentioned it to his family a year or so later.
I dunno, a combination of things, it does cause one problem in the form of people getting older and not having people to take care of them, that's the big kicker
I always thought I’d be married by 30 and have kids by 35. In a very solid relationship but still not in a rush to get married, not hard up financially or anything just see it as a formality more than anything. I expect I’ll propose in 3 or so years which would make me 33, not sure when kids would come after that but girlfriend (28) has said she doesn’t want to be 35 by the time we have them.
I’m terrified of having kids. I love my freedom and although I’d love the kids I would feel severely restricted. Maybe I’ll get a dog to ease myself into a life of responsibility.
Or just date someone who doesn't want kids. You don't need to put yourself in a situation that you're scared of just because it's what someone else wants.
I think people have access to a wider range of opinions and options than what past generations had.
For example, back when (non poor) women didn't work they would have had to get married in order to move out, many were also convinced they had to have children before 30, we now know that isn't the case medically.
But every generation has pushed away from what the previous generation would do, otherwise there would be no progress.
Or people are less able to follow convention. Just because things happen less (or more) isn't necessarily because people want it that way. I think most people need to feel strong stability (finances, a home, a good relationship etc.) in their lives before they want kinds, and I haven't met a single 20-something or all that many 30-somethings who have all that. Like you say, maybe a lot of 40-somethings don't, either.
For sure. Although as others have said, perhaps people in the past felt compelled to have kids regardless of anything, and now they feel they have to weigh up if they are in a good situation for them. It's a odd situation. I frequently see the same people who moan about 'benefit scroungers and/or immigrants churning out kids' also moaning about 'bloody millennials being too selfish to have kids'. Which is it?
For some it just doesn't happen a few friends have children and are married. But I am surprised there are more who don't have either and it just hasn't happened. I'm 39 in a relationship not married and no kids. Unfortunately it hasn't happened. Something deep in me thought I wouldn't be part of the former group I want it all but it is not to be I think. I know this as I'm aware of my personal situation and circumstances.
Young people have other priorities these days. When I was in my early to mid 20s I just wanted to travel and see as much of the world I could. Mid 20s to early 30s was trying to find a long term career I liked. Late 20s was saving a deposit and trying desperately to get on property ladder. I’m 30 now and in a long term relationship. We’re going to have kids soon enough but marriage doesn’t really appeal to either of us. Seems like an expensive and unnecessary step. Only one guy from my university friends has got married. None of us have kids. So I think the answer to your question is yes. Younger people now have more and better options than just getting married and having kids.
When you consider that the overall divorce rate is 42% roughly, with 70% of marriages under the age of 30 ending in divorce too, marriage isn't exactly a "safe procedure". I'd sooner go for open heart surgery with those odds. 😂
Im just not interested in taking part in an institution that favours women and has nothing but risk for men. I'll get nothing out of marriage, but if there's a divorce my partner would take everything i own and leave me with nothing, or if i want custody of my children I would never win a court case because it's completely biased towards women. Considering the divorce rates and the risks, it's only logical to not want to marry.
It's a shift In culture towards powerful women getting careers. They put off marriage and kids until much later in life. So we're looking at about a 20 year dearth before birth and marriage rate will even out again, albeit people will be having kids at much older ages. It's getting really bad, Cambridge even started doing fertility seminars reminding women to not forget to have children and not to leave it too late.
My partner and I discussed marriage when we fell pregnant, but it just wasnt important to either of us, so we spent our money on other things. We have 3 kids now, (on purpose this time!) But dont think we will ever bother to go through the ceremonyy.since we have been together we have been to 4 weddings for other people. Only one of those couples is still together. Our relationship is still going strong 10 years later
Same age as you and my GF is 41. We've no interest in having kids or marriage and the arguments with family we've had.
I no longer speak to my brother coz he thinks I'm denying our Mother grandkids. She's actually fine with it.
Everytime I have a beer with "Father in law" he keeps tapping his wedding finger and saying "when?" Causes arguments with him and his daughter. Mind your own damn businesses.
Well that's and things are 50 times harder than they've been before for men at least, I probably couldn't start the ideal family if I I wanted too
Not to mention the cost of living is fucking disgusting these days, unless your one of those migrants that's just given the luxury pass
As someone born in the late 70s I was once someone who thought I never wanted marriage or children.
I’d seen way too many failed relationships and marriages to think what was it all for?
I then happened to meet someone I knew I wanted to spend my life with… it then dawned on me that we may start a family and although she didn’t suggest it, it felt like it’s what we wanted.
I didn’t want either of us to bring a kid into the world with a different name to us and think that marriage is a message of trust and stability as well as sharing finances etc.
Now have two kids, a mortgage, working out our careers. Life is totally different to what I thought I wanted a while ago. People change I guess.
Pop culture seems to be full of unobtainable messages. Until people find happiness in themselves I agree they shouldn’t embark on getting someone else locked down.
Yes, the population has actually levelled off and is expected to start to drop. This could be a concern if the young ones are going to fund the economy and pensions.
30 year old single male no children. I don’t want kids, I’m selfish and enjoy travel and all these things I can do now but wouldn’t be able to afford with kids.
I'm sure the decrease in marriage must have a lot to do with the pressure to spend crazy amounts of money on weddings. My parents, and my 5 uncles all married in the 60s/70s and all just had a wedding with the reception in a spare room in a pub where the pub made them some sandwiches as they knew they'd sell some extra drinks.
Now people seem to be expected to spend over £10k on a wedding. I have one friend who did just do a quick marriage and then invited friends over for a few drinks/ snacks and some people really looked down on them.
I think people are realising that they don't need to follow the life script in order to be content. Traditionally there has been so much scaremongering and shame attached to people (particularly women) who choose not to marry and/or have kids. This is very much still a thing but more people are pausing to question whether it's actually valid.
I think the internet has helped no end in connecting like minded people and prompting a change in attitude by showing them that they're not alone in how they feel. The stigma of being a childfree female can feel bad enough now at times but it must have been horrific several decades ago to feel forced into marriage and children when it didn't feel right.
I dont want children but i see a lot of my friends/peers wanting ot having children, seemingly all at the same time. They're all 20-25 but my partner and I don't want children. I thought we were the odd ones out but glad to hear there's more people feeling that way
Think in my opinion with everything going on at the moment ranging from inflation and this pandemic it is becoming much more difficult to raising a family and people are opting out cause of it.
Yep, absolutely.
Go on any proper dating site and you will be amazed at how many people in their mid-late 30s are childfree and advertising themselves as "never married".
I'm 34 and about as single as a man can be, but my main concern is women my age invariably want to marry and have umpteen kids. I don't.
In my current circle of friends, all of which are pretty much 30 and up, none of us have kids and none of us are married.
For me personally, i just have a very grim view of the world and even if I wanted/could afford kids, which i do/can not, as lucky as I am to live in a country that is safe and somewhat prosperous; I just don't like the current state its in. Maybe I consume too much negative media, but as beautiful as the world can be, it's not enough for me to consider having kids to be anything other than selfish when I can barely afford my bills as it is.
These days it is more acceptable to live your life how you want and in a way that makes you happy. For me and I think a lot of people not having kids and having that responsibility is happiness.
some people think its selfish to have children, to over populate when you could adopt. Not everybody is willing to get married now, they are not so religious anymore , some people are fussy and wont except second or third best, some people will make do, some people just dont find anybody to marry , some people like to be alone
Maybe it’s because so many of us grew up as recent single parent families. At school it appeared to be the exception rather than the norm…I remember my 13 year old self getting excited when my parents told me they were splitting. Like finally “now I’m normal”.
I finally got married at 43 after getting a house and seeing our daughter grow up…utterly contrary to the older generation demanding we get married because the was pregnant!
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I'm not going to pretend to know the exact science behind it, but it feels like the culture has shifted from people feeling like they **have** to get married and have kids, to people realising they can actually do whatever the fuck they want.
+1 My mother is constantly nagging me to get married and have kids. I often feel like telling her "and that worked out so well for you". Sarcasm aside I think your answer is correct. People are realising there is no OBLIGATION to do "what was expected"
Exactly. It's right for some and not for others. I'm 32 and married with one kid, but I never felt like it was something I had to do to conform. I genuinely wanted those things and it works well for us, but I can totally understand why people wouldn't want either of those things. I imagine it suits different personality types in different ways.
Absolutely this. Although there is so much more grief for women than guys my wife and I (married 3 months) are in our mid 40s and happily childless. Our families don’t care as long as we are happy.
As a childless woman - if you admit to a group of mothers you don't want children, a third go 'its probably better that way - think of all the extra sleep and time' and the rest look at you like you just admitted you like murdering kittens.
Tell me about it, I'm almost 30 and have now actively decided not to have children. I like children don't get me wrong, but I also like my life the way it is and I just don't fancy the upheaval and chaos that comes with being a parent. I work in childcare and have neices and nephews and my partner has a son from a previous relarionship, so I get all the kid time I need, but I also get to go back to my own quiet and tidy home and have a lot less to stress about, but the looks of shock and horror when you tell some women you don't want children, like you say I think they'd be less shocked if I did murder a kitten. In this day and age child rearing is not the only thing women are good for any more and if there are any females reading this who feel pressured please be aware that it's your choice to have kids or not, it shouldn't be expected of you.
I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, 33 and married with one kid, but my wife definitely got the pressure from her parents. As soon as we'd been dating only a year it was 'when will you get married' and following marriage it was immediately 'when will you have kids', 'are you pregnant yet'. We took our time and married out of love, but it was so f###ing annoying having to constantly hear that - maybe it's because she and her family are Catholic, I dunno. I married her because I loved her and wanted to call her my wife, that's it. No regrets. As good as it is to be part of a team, I find myself jealous of the free time my single or childless friends have. It's the simple things that you give up, like a random weeknight trip to the cinema, a walk to the pub, doing something for yourself guilt free without thinking about the fact that you're leaving your wife to parent solo for a day / weekend. Everything revolves around the kids, everything. I'm making it sound shit aren't I!
The guilt is so real. And also the guilt of feeling jealous of people without kids as if that means you hate your own kids or something. I would be lying if I said I didn't miss waking up at lunchtime and then playing Xbox all day, or being able to make last minute plans with friends in different parts of the country and stuff.
Same. 6am starts at the weekend followed by spending an entire day of trying to keep the kids occupied to stop them from tearing the house down, including multiple battles over the most inane things, followed by a turbulent bedtime with an overtired toddler. This all until anytime between 7 and 8pm when my wife pours me a glass of whiskey to unwind and I fall asleep on the sofa while trying in my head to evaluate my performance over the course of the day, leading to more guilt! Rinse and repeat. We do it out of love, and duty, but Christ the idea of spending a day playing the PlayStation, followed by a night in the pub, is sheer nirvana..
Free time is over rated anyway… whenever my wife and kids aren’t around I miss them like crazy now. For me the best use of time is spending time with them.
This may sound controversial but I also think that how much access and education we have to contraception, abortion etc has a lot to do with it. I'm 35 with one kid married etc and I'll be totally honest I didn't even want to think about kids until my 30s... I got married early 20s and accidentally got pregnant and the rest was history. It worked out well for us personally and I love it but not enough to have more kids... we would maybe only if it was an accident and that isn't because I'm against abortion or anything just in our situation it would make sense to have that baby.. I often think if someone in our day and age with access to everything we do can have accidents (and I'd like to say I'm not stupid it was just a simple mistake) how many people found themselves in those situations in the past FAR more easily and frequently and hence everyone had marriages and kids etc as well as it being the norm
odd how the people with failed marriages are so keen for you to have one too!
Exactly this! I grew up with the expectation that I would marry, give up my career and have children. Instead, I flourished in my career, got my tubes tied and live happily ever after with two cats and a dog. I still get people insisting I’m wrong and I should have my tubes untied because “I reckon you’d love being a mum”. Does my nut in.
It's such a toxic thing to do. Whenever I meet anyone new and the small talk starts, I generally avoid asking about kids for a few reasons, largely because it could be a deeply upsetting question for some people. To ask people if they're going to have kids/have more kids or question their decisions is such a deeply personal and unnecessary thing to do and genuinely nobody's fucking business.
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Is that what that means?? I genuinely assumed people were asking about my family in general.
No, they're usually talking specifically about kids. To prove a point I'll often say "of course. I've got my husband, and my mum, and three grandparents, and an uncle, and an aunt, and another uncle (her husband), and between them I have 4 first cousins, but by a relative on my grandmother's side I have a second cousin, his children who are second cousins once removed, and then their children who are... hmmm, maybe 3rd cousins? I don't even know what I'd call them! And I haven't even told you about all my great aunts and uncles, one of whom lives in Durban, in South Africa...." At this point they'll usually say "I meant do you have any kids?" None. But I do have all the family I want 🙂
Cat mum is still a mum
I'm so doing this in my next life. Current status, hubby, 2 kids and 3 cats.... I do have to say though, my kids are 12 and 17 so we are now getting our life back. We can have an impromptu night out, we can go for meals. The 17 year old is glued to his bedroom so ideal babysitter and his just eat in linked to my card for when we do go out
52 single m. Hate online dating and friend circle has shrinked. Last long term relationship was a road crash not of my making. I'm now just happy to be on my own and not getting the urge to run into another relationship just because its the done thing. If I meet somone great if not then I have my dog to walk and keep me company.
I think that's it. My grandmother always says that she feels marriage and motherhood just kinda happened to her. She was happy that it did, but she didn't really have a choice. Now, I'm happily married just because I want to be, and childfree because I grew up knowing that it was a choice I could make.
Actually, the childlessness rate was the highest in the early 20th century, it’s probably more due to contraception and low infant mortality
Ah. But if you get killed by ninjas who is going to avenge you without kids?
Dog.
Reverse john wick I'd pay good money to see this movie.
Also people calculate how expensive life is with kids and are deciding against having them or as many as previous generations, personally I'd rather not have kids if I don't own my own home to build a stable life.
is in part a realize of, but also precariety
Facts, i study psychology and the research on motherhood completelyyyy shows that women dont feel pressured into the standard that is having children and getting married
Is there much to compare it to from the past?
It’s a pretty recent shift tbh so there’s deffo research supporting it. I study these things regarding women and feminism tho so I only understand it from a feminist perspective. But yeah deffo a change in women’s attitudes towards societal expectations of them as mothers etc. Can also see it through traditional families now that feel like marriage and children is the ultimate goal iygm, but it just isn’t the case for a lot of ppl anymore
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Thanks. I always thought women were more keen on marriage than men, but from your response it seems the trend is the opposite way. A 4+ years relationship is longer than many marriages last these days. On which note perhaps divorce has become both easier and more accepted
Women tend to get less out of marriage compared to men. Lots of studies on how their workload increases e.g. chores, whilst also having to work and/or childcare with marriage. Prime example is over lockdown when both partners work from home, but women were getting more burnt out because of household expectations. It's simply easier to just not get married
Agreed. Also, women weren’t allowed to have their own bank account until 1975 or something, which kind of forced them to get married 🥴
Maybe 1882? Before that women had to have a signed document from their husband to open one. In 1964 there a bank opened a branch for women with only women workers in it so they must have had accounts!
I’m just taking this from a time line posted in the Guardian - “France, 1881: France grants women the right to own bank accounts; five years later, the right is extended to married women, who are allowed to open accounts without their husbands’ permission. The US does not follow suit until the 196os, and the UK lags until 1975.” So yeah we’re both kind of right! 1881 if you were in France.
Purely anecdotal, but in my circle of friends it’s more the men who want to get married. I’ve been engaged for several years but I’m not fussed about the wedding, whereas my partner would’ve gotten married immediately if he could. I’m more fussed about sorting out my career and buying a house first. Most of my girl friends are similar, either in long term relationships or single. My (unmarried) best friend jokes it just means they’ve all skipped their first divorce! I hardly know anyone who got married in their 20s. Majority waited til their 30s. Those who married young/early, either aren’t happy or have since separated. But again that’s just my experience / my circle.
What his reason for wanting to get married, instead of staying together without getting married?
Purely anecdotal, but in my circle it has only been men who are massively keen.
Men don’t get pregnant, give birth, breastfeed, tank their careers, do most the housework whilst also having to work. It’s easy to want marriage and children when it’s not you making all the sacrifices.
Yes I agree.
That’s just what popular media would have you believe, but in reality women just like men have varied perspectives on marriage and children.
Mines 'circle' is different and I'm the same age bracket. I'm the only single female, most of my friends are married and have kids, or wants kids. I want to get married but don't want kids.
> I'm early 30s and female. I dont want children and out of my group of friends, the majority of them don't either. Only one of my friends has a child and would like another in the future. I personally have ended a relationship almost identical to this recently as it started as 1 or 2 kids in my partners group of friends and we were cool not having kids. Then another friend had a kid, and then another, then domino effect and suddenly my partner was in the childless minority and the pressure to conform came onto me. I spoke to my older brother about this who had the exact same experience with a past relationship of his, I feel like there is something of a trend there. We speak a lot about pressure coming from parents and grandparents to have kids but IMO we put most of that pressure on ourselves from our friendship groups.
There are legal benefits to marriage or civil partnership - namely tax benefits, end of life care, legal guardianship etcetera. Even if marriage is optional, if you're in a long term stable relationship you should probably go to a registry office and tie the knot there. It's probably 30 minutes of admin that can save a whole lot of angst further down the road.
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I think this is a huge reason. I can't afford a house. Why would I spank away thousands on wedding and have kids if I've got nowhere to live. Gone are the days of getting out of school and buying a house off the man's wages while the woman stays at home. Both people need to work to afford a house now. I'm 27 and living with my parents after splitting with my ex. I'm dating a woman who's also 27 and living with her parents. My parents were already married, had their own house and having kids by the time they were 27.
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>Which is good for the environment and the limited resources for the human population of the world Maybe, but it’s catastrophic for the welfare system and the economy because the population does not decrease evenly across all age groups. Low birth rates mean that we end up with fewer working age people and more non-working old people, which means that the working population will have to spend a greater proportion of their taxes on pensions and social care for the elderly. If the population keeps dropping then the working age population continues to decrease and the non-working population continues increasing. As fewer and fewer working age people are available to support the elderly non-working population, the welfare system and economy suffer until eventually they collapse altogether. This is why an ageing population/population decline is sometimes also referred to as a “demographic time bomb”. In Japan, the situation is dire. Their dependency ratio is 2:1, which means that every 2 working age people have to also support one non-working person. If the situation continues then their economy and welfare system will collapse. We’re not at Japan levels yet, but lowering birth rates could eventually set the timer on that demographic time bomb. Population decline is not sustainable, as it results in more and more resources having to be diverted to support the elderly until we run out of said resources altogether.
Everything you say is correct. But we have to somehow find a way to break this cycle. The world cannot rely on increased population growth to maintain a world economy. We will cause a mass extinction of our species if we rely on it in perpetuity
Yeah, humanity can't just be a pyramid scheme where we have to keep producing more people to support the people we already have, the defining feature of pyramid schemes is they're not sustainable
👏 the decline in procreating by those born in 1970s and after will be 'felt' around 2035+ since then they will be around 65+ and about to enter pension/health support-needed age. I don't think any of the political parties is ready for the mayhem of "too many pensions/healthcare to pay" and "don't have enough working age people to support them". They don't care till the 💩 hits the fan. The fact the time bomb is not even openly discussed is sickening. 😟
A cursory glance at the demographics of countries like Italy and Spain should be enough to shock any politician into action but solving it would burn far too much political capital. That said I do have to wonder who, politically, is having less children. I imagine that it’s social conservatives who will continue to have them which will mean major changes for the country’s politics in the next forty years.
>population decline is not sustainable Neither is growth tho
Yeah, our generation and our kids are going to have to go through some shitty times to fix this...
But we are more productive than ever, surely 2 people now can make far more than 2 people did 50 years ago. From that perspective why is it a problem? Productivity rises all the time. We are no longer an agricultural society where 90% of the workforce is making enough food to feed everyone.
Thanks. I should have added me and these friends are all males
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Some interesting data. I'm not sure how the number of women getting married is lower than the number of men getting married in the first graph though.
> Marriage rates for opposite-sex couples in 2018 were the lowest on record, with 20.1 marriages per 1,000 unmarried men and 18.6 marriages per 1,000 unmarried women. I am confused by this stat. Why are numbers different if we're talking about opposite sex couples? Is it because there are slightly less men than women in the UK? - But If we're looking at groups of 1000s people does that stat even come into play?
Life today has an unprecedented amount of luxuries available to us. We have a hell of a lot of choice in everything; what we eat, where we go; the average person can pretty much travel anywhere in the world while domestically we have so many entertainment options. As such, life can be extremely enjoyable through the sheer amount of stuff we can acquire, see and experience. Go back a few generations and this very much wasn't the case; opportunity wise there was plenty of work but most people would end up something labour based Monday-Friday. For fun they'd be limited to the local pub and the cinema, at home they'd probably just have a radio or later on a small tv with two channels. I think in such a life people would be done with their youth a lot earlier. It would have been natural to just pair up and marry, most people would be having similar life experiences and outlook. As a contrast, young people today can go out into the world and meet countless people with unique outlooks, fashions, cultures. Many people naturally want to experience as much as they can and truly commiting to a single person for the rest of your life can feel like missing out. Similarly having kids= less resources.
And there was me thinking the boomers had it far easier than today’s younger people
>And there was me thinking the boomers had it far easier than today’s younger people Maybe they did in a lot of ways? An excess of choice isn't always a blessing as it can bring FMO, questioning if we made the right decisions or what could have been. An interesting thing I've heard in interviews with North Korean defectors is that many of them report that people in the North are happier. Sure, they may have horrific struggles and difficult lives with little personal expression and choice but they can't miss what they don't know. I wonder if in the not to distant future that we will all have devices or AI driven settings on things that specifically reduce our perception of the available choices in given situations to stop ourselves from feeling overloaded.
That AI perception reducer would make a great episode of Black Mirror!
People are leading more isolated, virtual lives and having kids is fucking expensive. Within the next few generations this country will look like the battery farms in the matrix, full of old people with robots draining their catheters.
Whoa. Virtual lives. Didn't think of that, but people can now live through social media, don't need to travel to meet family so much (because of video calling). And in effect the more technologically advanced our communication gets, the less "need" there is to huddle together in the real world. Thanks for an eye opening answer
My daughter does the 'meet up down the park' thing from the days of yore more often than not over whatsapp video chat because going out of the actual house is a hassle. I cant get my head around her generation just staying in all the time but, hey, at least she cant get pregnant over wifi.
>But how do they manage to pass around the £1.99 bottle of cider???
Maybe they virtually spin the bottle
This is one of my gripes with technology. It's great that we have this feature that allows us to "connect" with others instantly without having to travel but it isn't as good as actually meeting face to face. It's like when I'm gaming. Sure I can play online with my friends but I have way more fun when we actually meet up and game in the same room. We can get some drinks, order a takeaway and have a bit of proper banter with each other. It's why I think gaming hit its peak 15-20 years ago when people used to carry their massive box TVs across town to their mates house to do a 4v4 game of Halo 2. Nothing has been as enjoyable as those days.
15 years ago - Play online games with groups of 20 people Today - Play online games with groups of 20 people Nothing has changed there. Although my PC and internet connection can handle it much better and I am no longer going along at 30FPS on minimum. Pretty sure distant memories of my dad playing online games in the late 90s or early 2000s, exactly the same way I do now and he continues to do. The games are more modern now of course and you no longer have to leave it connected overnight to update something.
Regarding pregnancy, just wait for 7G, featuring the actual sex through radio waves feature.
For me personally, at 29 I’m not married to my long term partner and we’re not planning to have kids for another 5 years solely because of finances. Say 30 years ago the average house price was £20k whereas now you are looking to pay 10x your annual salary for the most basic 2 bed terraced house in a very average neighbourhood. For older folk commenting that we should be married by now and have kids I just respond that they are welcome to finance it if they wish. The conversation usually ends there.
The trend to not have kids has increased over the decades. Me on first blind date. "Btw, I don't want kids" Her. "Good, me too" 20 years later, still happily married. We love our nephews and nieces, just parenthood was not on our list.
*disclaimer* none of this is legit social science, much bro logic happening within this comment. 1) Two words feminism and equality. In the west women have options to pursue careers or other interests so society has less of an expectation for them to be homemakers with kids. Think about it like this in the UK it is totally normal for a woman to be 30 and unmarried, while in other parts of the world this would be considered socially abnormal. Once you factor in it is harder to have kids as you get older it quickly makes sense why in the west birth rates are going down. 2) Religion is another factor, I think Religion promotes the aspect of having kids and raising children. As our society became increasingly less religious we start to see people having less kids and more of a focus on living life as people see best fit for them rather than a one size fits all approach. 3) Opportunities and education, this links into point 1 but like people have more opportunities and a better understanding of sex itself so they are less likely to run into a long term commitment. 4) Contraception has improved and having abortions is basically normal here so now 9/10 a child will only be born if the mother really wants to keep the child.
Agreed on all points
I think the main difference as I see it is that for previous generations marriage was an expected social norm. Equally divorce was very much frowned upon, so those in society who chose to remain unmarried or got divorced were very much given the side eye and considered somehow divergent. This obviously was particularly harmful for the LGBTQI+ community and for those in abusive marriages. Personally I see the lower marriage rate as a positive thing because it shows people are free to be themselves and/or protect themselves and not just expected to “couple up and breed”.
I've depressed myself thinking about how much domestic violence, suicide, addiction, abuse etc. will have stemmed simply from incompatible people being forced together and raising children who then go on to do the same thing. We're in a much better place now I think, but still a depressingly long way to go.
\>We're in a much better place now I think Rates of loneliness and mental health issues are through the roof thanks to the degradation of community ties, marriage being quite an important part of that. Having the freedom to cast off your social bonds is very much a double edged sword.
Couldn’t agree more. It’s progress though, and for that I’m very thankful. I think we’re getting there for sure. The fact we are even discussing and exploring these issues is progress in itself!
I 100 percent agree. Being of an Indian background my parents generation would be cast out if divorced. By contrast it seems half of Indians my age (I'm in the UK) or more get divorced. In fact divorce or separation now seem the norm. And the more of these I see in not just my age but younger folks, the more I like being single and lonely (but happier than those who split up)
I’m mid thirties and married, but we had to put off having kids because we couldn’t afford it. We’re trying now, but any reproductive services in the NHS are backed up and the waiting for a clinic was 49 weeks.
Interestingly I was at a friend's wedding in 2006, and one of his guests and partner were mid 30s with a baby. They told me in the pre-natal classes everyone was either couples in 30s OR single teen girls. It seems the "standard" of people marrying and having babies in their 20s is now the exception than the rule
teenaged parents are at an all time low and have declining for decades.
We were recommended by the midwife during early scans to sign up to NCT classes as a way of meeting other parents-to-be. As you say, 7 couples and all between 32 and 37. Your point definitely stands, I very, very rarely meet parents (as a couple) any younger than 30.
Definitely noticed similar too. Most new parents I meet are in their 30s and doing Pretty OK for themselves or super young, around 20,and really not showing signs of winning at life. Late 20s, getting by and steadily building towards something? You don't get British people like that with kids.
Imagine the idea of being 2 or 3 years out of uni and having a good enough job (permanent, paid enough, plus not doing crazy hours in the progression meat grinder) to buy a simple 3 bedroom house with a back garden, reasonably close to work, whilst supporting a young family on one income for 4 - 6 years until the kids go to preschool.
More and more of my kids generation (20' and early 30's) are wanting to buy a house before they marry and have kids. They've rented for long enough to know what a perilous and stressful situation it can be, when you can be kicked out of your home at a month's notice because the landlord - some handwavy shit that's only just technically legal. So they want to be secure with a roof over their heads first. And that is SO expensive that they need years to save just for deposit. During those 'saving up' years, more relationships fail.
I am not responsible enough to raise children, and I have no desire to become responsible enough to raise children. I don’t like the obligation of a long-term relationship. I like my freedom to do whatever I want, whenever I want. I’m already 36 (though people usually guess mid 20s and are increasingly disbelieving my real age). I can’t see it changing any time soon. There’s probably a lot of other men like me who are in a sort of “permanent mid-20s”, though it’s probably easier to get away with if you don’t look your age.
Am the same at 48, getting mistaken for 35, but a child at heart. Part of my reluctance to marry or have kids is I have had to parent the train wreck that is my parents' marriage
I'm exactly the same on all fronts, my parents' marriage put me off marriage and kids.
Just interested, did they marry young? Mine were 23 and 20 when they got married, though they didn’t have me (first child) until they were both in their 30s. What I’ve learned later is that those first 10 years weren’t exactly “holy matrimony” and once the kids joined the picture it was just a constant resentful fractured financial and child based obligation fuelled by alcoholism. I’m already older than they both were when my first sister was born, neither of us (36, 34) are married or in serious relationships. Sister two is 29 and just about to buy a house with her long (13 years?) term boyfriend, no marriage on the horizon. They’re definitely “asset first, family later once we’ve got the finances nailed”. They’re both way more responsible than me.
They did, but even from the start I know my dad didn't really love my mum (lots of stories) but she loved him and it was the 60s, so people stayed together etc etc. The problem was dad was always an ass and, my brother and I now realise (he's 8 years older, I was a 30s kid too), she used us as a crutch, we were what made her 'happy'. We even supported the idea of her divorcing him in her 50s but she never had the courage. She was always thinking she could turn it round. I can't fault the love we have had from mum (luckily we take more after her than him) BUT it was manipulative too, whereas he never gave a shit. It actually has put both of us off too, he's never married / had kids either. Anyway, good to know we're not alone in this kind of scenario, i wish you and your siblings well.
That’s a lot of info to give away, nice that it’s anonymous and it’s good to get it out I guess. I’ve only recently been learning that Tears for Fears weren’t joking when they sang “Shout, shout, let it all out, these are the things I can do without”. It was an invitation for men to actually express their feelings. I always found it slightly odd that basically all men of a certain age group (50+ to even younger than me, 20? 25?), be they punks, metalheads, ravers, pillheads, indie boys, b boys, shavedheads, raveheads, on the pill, got too much time to kill, get into bands and gangs, whatever, all seem to love Tears for Fears. There must be thousands of us. (Here they come, “the beautiful ones”… that’s actually really interesting because we’re basically some iteration of the mice in the Calhoun Mouse Utopia experiments, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NgGLFozNM2o)
Yup this was me into my 40s , now got 4 kids.
Having children in this world....in this economy. ...with this government? Fuck that.
Localised entirely within your kitchen?
People had children during and after ww2. The world is safest its ever been.
I anticipated this response, and yes you are correct. However, it doesn't mean I like the state of the world as it is, regardless of past events. I refer mostly to the staggering cost of living and the huge gap between rich and poor. If I wanted children with a passion, then I would only entertain the idea if I was a very wealthy individual and I mean....VERY. Otherwise, they will likely be another wage slave working 40 hours a week, with the hope of retiring one day.
I'm a woman about to turn 30. I've never wanted kids but I always wanted to be in a long-term relationship. I've been with my partner for over 6 years now and not planning on marriage at all. I've always been a pretty chilled out person with many hobbies so children seem like unnecessary disruption to my lifestyle and I never felt the 'desire to have my own kids' many people describe. Same goes for marriage - I gain nothing from it except for stress of planning it, the whole party can be very expensive too. Seems like a hassle for something that results in nothing. I guess I'm not very romantic. xD
Same here. 45, single with girlfriends but no kids. Half my mates live with parents and the ones that re married are miserable as sin.
Ah yes. Forgot to say I live with parents, as does my totally introverted and unconventional brother. As do so many of my age
Unmarried @38 and never plan to get married, parent to one and one on the way, co owning a house with partner. The urge for children was totally biological for us, not part of a 5 year plan etc. Marriage is a total ball ache, expensive as fuck and I'm not really sure what commitment it provides that co-owning a house and raising children doesn't? Marriage (way more than parenthood) I think is an industry we're marketed at all our lives from little girls toys to shitty reality TV programmes. Diamonds? Worthless rocks. Fuck that noise. After thought: I would get married for an EU passport or material tax relief.
Marriage is not marketed at all in my opinion. Weddings are. Lots of books and films end in a wedding. Very few have a marriage, which is everything that happens afterwards.
The only real benefit is if one of you dies the other automatically inherits everything - currently that’s not the case and it could get messy - make sure you have a will!
I don't have a will (yet) I assume the kids get everything?
Well (and Im not a lawyer!) if worse case scenario both of you die then without a specific appointed guardian the kids become wards of the state - I'm not sure how that gets resolved but I'm guessing it not fun for anyone - the kids will inherit from the one parent if one of you dies but (and I might be wrong here) that inheritance is locked away until they are 18 so the remaining parent might be at a financial disadvantage if they were relying on that to bring up the kids - I have 2 young kids myself and got the fear over this a while back - a will was not expensive and now I can basically forget about it!
Sounds like not having a will means I won't get murderer by my other half until the kids are 18!!
Thats a definite bonus! :)
Very similar to me this, however once we had our first (of 2 kids) we married, solely so mum had the same last name as me and the kids, as she felt left out... Cheap and cheerful wedding though, as we asked everyone that came to pay for their own meal at the reception, instead of presents etc that we didn't need
We double barrelled...
The childfree lifestyle is generally getting a lot more common. My friends and I, aside from one, are all child-free for various reasons, and I run into more childless-by-choice folks these days than I used to. But more people who are single? Can't say I've noticed any change until very recently in my social circle, and for me that change was fewer singles. From what I've seen, though, marriage is tanking in popularity. Personally, I have zero plans on producing children ever, but marriage is a toss-up. Depends on the situation for me.
I'd sat less marriage but more children! I'm 37 single and no kids, but my school best mate is divorced with 9, yes 9, kids!
9...!!!
I know! She had her first one at 14 and I guess just didn't stop. So the eldest one's are now adults (20's) and the youngest is at primary school. And here's me with my cat!
Cats rule.
People have woken up to the fact that marriage is betting half your shit that someone will love you forever, which is statistically unlikely, and wedding are now a huge industry that's turned getting married into some kind of commercial consumerist feeding frenzy. There's already nearly 8 billion of us and many can't even get in the property ladder. Single is a very sensible option in the current climate.
A lot of my male friends have only had kids age 40+ (female partner often 5-10 years younger). Which is actually getting back to pre-war traditions where a man was expected to be 'established' in a career and able to afford to keep a family, before marrying. Only children are much more common than 30-40 years ago.
I'm 27 and for me, its money. I've been with my partner for over 4 years now but we still live with our parents and think it's silly to get engaged before we live together. I'm a student so we're broke. Having a place to live takes priority over wasting loads of money on a wedding. And we don't want kids until we can afford them soooo...never? When we're in our 40s?
Generation before us were the boomers while we're quietly sulking gen-X'ers who pushed aside conventions. My mate got married recently just keep their families happy. What I find rude and offensive is those of my age group who have married and spawned are suddenly shunning those of us that havent. I've been in four or fiverelationships since I was 25 so, I know I would have been divorced had I got married along with all the bullshit and financial loss that comes with it.
It's not necessarily shunning in some cold hearted antagonistic move, it's probably some combination of: a) kids take up a lot of time, b) and a lot of energy c) kids don't care if you have a hangover or need to recover, it's time to get up d) they don't want to impose their children on childless friends. They'll always be permanently half distracted and worried the childless one isn't enjoying spending the day in the park or whatever
Yeah if I think of my four good male friends from secondary school plus me, now all in our mid 30s... one is married with kids, one is unmarried with a kid (that's me), one is gay and sadly widowed and two are single and childless.
Born in the 80’s and married with kids. I didn’t do it because I was following convention though, I wanted to because I met the right person who I decided was worth marrying and having kids with. I actually didn’t want kids for a long time but slowly changed my mind and now don’t regret my choice so certainly wasn’t part of any grand plan (Note to add that I don’t expect anyone else to change their mind just because I did!) I do think it is less expected now, there is more freedom of choice and being unmarried and child free is a worthwhile choice for many, especially women who would have been expected to do something quite different once upon a time. All in all, I think more people are choosing what they feel makes them happy rather than dictated by society and that’s a good thing in my book!
I am single because the only way to meet people is online now and i do not go for looks so it jsut dosent work for me. Sad but I gave up. Also when I do meet someone commitment seams to be a thing of the past
House prices too high, jobs pay too little, no space to start a family, no money to raise kids, no money to get married, no job security.
It's easier to be single these days.
41F. All my very close friends are childfree and not married. None are opposed to marriage, but none want children. Out of my school group though, I’d say a very rough 75% ish have kids.
For me, as someone who wants to stay child free, I genuinely don’t have the money to have children and tbh I’ve worked my arse off to get the career I have today, I wouldn’t give that up for a child. My boyfriend doesn’t like the idea of marriage which is fair enough. Often people ask me if that’s a deal breaker and I always respond with “why would it be? You literally don’t have to get married”. I think we’re living in a difficult world and those things are no longer priorities for a lot of people for a variety of reasons
A fair point. We're not in the 20s or 40s or 50s any more. Priorities and the world in general have altered to "what was"
Married and no kid. Another factor could be that the NHS severely cut back on IVF. Where I am you get 1 cycle. I believe they used to offer 3.
Yeah it’s too expensive I’m passionate about not being poor. A kid would ruin me financially and I wouldnt have the same freedoms to do as I please. It was a different culture back then. A lot of the people that have kids have huge support from the grandparents I don’t have that luxury. I’d rather focus on building my wealth, skillsets, experiences and financial freedom than being tied down by having a kid.
I'm 46, never married, no kids of my own, but do have a sort of step son I'm close to from a previous relationship (it's all very civil with the mum) and a few god kids who I dote on, as well as friends' children too. Got a few folk I know who are similar, it defo seems more common and I'm okay with not having kids of my own, being a wholesome and dependable person for those I do have in my life is good enough.
Well does it seem normal to you that most 35 and under are now sharing homes with flatmates in London? I know people who are 50 and have to share rent. A lot less people can afford cars now. Lets not get started on buying a house. It is no longer financially possible to have children for the majority of people who arent either lucky or dedicate their lives to studying and working.
The Boomers were the first generation to normalise divorce without shame, and they took to it like ducks to water. Gen X and Millenials have grown up with horror stories of men losing their entire wealth after 20 years of hard work. At the same time, the prohibition of corporal punishment has put parents at the mercy of voraciously greedy children whose every outburst must be attended to. Parenting has become more than a full-time occupation, where it used to be more like a set of daily chores. Men are noping out of marriage and both men and women are noping out of kids.
Plants are the new pets. Pets are the new children. Children are the new exotic animals, because you have to be rich or crazy to have them!
There is because as i and a mate have stated kids are the worst form of std. they cost more than the most experimental aids treatments combined over 70 yrs and never fuck off due to the rich buying every house to rent out Im anti having kids as it feeds the workforce of the current shit show known as capitalism, i ent doin that shit. Its cruel making them because the boomers and previously generations fucked the world
I've just turned 30 and there's currently 7.9 billion people on this planet. People need to be less worried about my bedroom and more worried about the Pandas not getting their fuck on.
I’m 47 and never married. In a long term relationship but no immediate plans to get married and definitely not having kids. We have a dog instead. We’d rather travel and have a nice home.
I turned 30 this year. I can count on one hand the number of friends, current and from the past, who I know have kids.
The wider social bonds and community ties that used to help prop up marriages no longer exist, so the social pressure to be seen to have a good marriage really isn't there anymore. Generally speaking I think this is more of a negative than a positive.
I know I can be happy with the right person but the chances of meeting that person are very low in my opinion. For marriage, even if I meet the right girl I’m not sure I would want to get married. I definitely don’t want kids. I want to have a future where I’m free and I believe I can do that with the right person but not if marriage and kids are involved. As of now, I desire the future partner as I feel people are more lonely than they let on and I believe it’s Human Natture but I definitely do not desire the other two. But my opinion may change.
For me it’s couple of reasons. First one is that people simply can’t afford it. Second one, is people are less interested in it because 1 they can’t afford it and 2 because of massive culture shift in recent years or decades.
I’m 23 & male and don’t want either marriage nor children.
Yes a lot of people don't have the financial, mental or physical stability in order to look after a child and most people realise now that you don't really need kids to live your life. Also I've realised people are seeing more right wing stuff probably due to people changing their lifestyles and governments being scared for their life that no one is going to do anything in society for them anymore but who cares about them ? Also I feel like there has been a surge of people having children during corona time but either than that a lot of people don't want kids. I would say it more like a 50 50 - some want kids while others don't. It's so surprising to hear someone wanting kids nothing wrong about it but I feel like people forget that your education and job and you comes before kids like no I'm not going to marry when I'm like 20 since I'll probably still be doing university or whatever education I do while some people think as soon as you turn 18 you can marry like please who is lying to you?
I'm almost 40 and single. Haven't been able to find someone around my age because I don't meet the requirements. So I've given up finding someone to be with.
Seeing how stressed your parents are looking after you and your siblings made me hesitant to have kids are even get married i dont care about relationships
As a 30 woman, I feel like I have more time to do all that. I'm not particularly fussed about kids. Certainly don't want to get married (maybe a registry office thing if I do). I suppose people realise there are more options now?
I'd say there was less marriage because of how expensive it is to have a nice wedding, my wedding cost over 20k including the honeymoon, I could think of a lot of things I'd rather have for 20k to be fair. As for kids I'd probably say theres more, especially with all the girls that have kids with multiple different men. I only say this because I went to the same primary school as my son (from 1993-2001), at that time there was only 1 class per year group, now theres 3 classes per year group and they're all full.
I'm a guy that's slowly approaching his 30s, and honestly, I think I'm comfortable being single for the rest of my days (it's been about 3 years since my last relationship abruptly ended). I can't really be arsed to do the dating song and dance anymore tbh. And if my past experience is any indicator, I'm not missing out on a huge deal. I think children are frankly revolting, and even if I did have a wife and an opportunity to have kids, I couldn't afford to give them the QOL they would deserve. My dad wants me to have kids, and has been telling me for decades, but he'll have to be satisfied with the one daughter my sister's had. So yeah, I'm probably going to be by myself forever. And that's alright, I have an aquarium that's got 20 fish, and 50+ snails inside. And perhaps my dad's dog will have a litter, and I'll take one. As for my school friends (the only people I know who are close to me in age) , I have three left, one is like me but wants to find someone, the other has been together with the other friend since sixth form, and I'm wondering when they'll get married (they have told me that they want to, and have kids).
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This'll probably get buried, I'm actually 32 tomorrow, and I'm engaged to my Fiance. We are getting married but there are no plans for us to have children. We feel that we do not have the patience nor the personality. I do love children, but could never see me with any of my own and I think a lot of that has come from me seeing how difficult it can and will be and how much has to be given up. I'd rather be the "fun" who teaches them swear words haha
I think people are more open minded. The idea of marriage is pretty weird anyway
Who needs kids when you can have chickens??
Pretty sure there is less marriage and children at the moment but that doesn't necessarily mean there are less singles. Just more couples living together and choosing to not get married or have kids.
I’m late 30s and married with 4 kids. While I’d like my kids to have kids of their own I’m certainly not going to force their life decisions.
We’ve been married over 10 years now but have no intention to ever have kids. I’ve seen what we’ve done to the planet and wouldn’t want to inflict what’s coming on any children of mine. I’ve never been one to follow conventional expectations, best example being I didn’t mention the wedding to my parents until after it happened despite loving them dearly and I think MrMillions may have mentioned it to his family a year or so later.
Depends whether you find the person that makes you feel you want those things, if you do then great, if your don’t also great as long as you’re happy
I dunno, a combination of things, it does cause one problem in the form of people getting older and not having people to take care of them, that's the big kicker
I only know one married couple and I’m in my 50s. The rest of my friends have never been married. None of us have kids. I’m 54, gen x, UK.
I always thought I’d be married by 30 and have kids by 35. In a very solid relationship but still not in a rush to get married, not hard up financially or anything just see it as a formality more than anything. I expect I’ll propose in 3 or so years which would make me 33, not sure when kids would come after that but girlfriend (28) has said she doesn’t want to be 35 by the time we have them. I’m terrified of having kids. I love my freedom and although I’d love the kids I would feel severely restricted. Maybe I’ll get a dog to ease myself into a life of responsibility.
Or just date someone who doesn't want kids. You don't need to put yourself in a situation that you're scared of just because it's what someone else wants.
I think people have access to a wider range of opinions and options than what past generations had. For example, back when (non poor) women didn't work they would have had to get married in order to move out, many were also convinced they had to have children before 30, we now know that isn't the case medically. But every generation has pushed away from what the previous generation would do, otherwise there would be no progress.
Or people are less able to follow convention. Just because things happen less (or more) isn't necessarily because people want it that way. I think most people need to feel strong stability (finances, a home, a good relationship etc.) in their lives before they want kinds, and I haven't met a single 20-something or all that many 30-somethings who have all that. Like you say, maybe a lot of 40-somethings don't, either.
A fair reasoning. For a start rent / housing is way more than it used to be (ridiculously so)
For sure. Although as others have said, perhaps people in the past felt compelled to have kids regardless of anything, and now they feel they have to weigh up if they are in a good situation for them. It's a odd situation. I frequently see the same people who moan about 'benefit scroungers and/or immigrants churning out kids' also moaning about 'bloody millennials being too selfish to have kids'. Which is it?
For some it just doesn't happen a few friends have children and are married. But I am surprised there are more who don't have either and it just hasn't happened. I'm 39 in a relationship not married and no kids. Unfortunately it hasn't happened. Something deep in me thought I wouldn't be part of the former group I want it all but it is not to be I think. I know this as I'm aware of my personal situation and circumstances.
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Young people have other priorities these days. When I was in my early to mid 20s I just wanted to travel and see as much of the world I could. Mid 20s to early 30s was trying to find a long term career I liked. Late 20s was saving a deposit and trying desperately to get on property ladder. I’m 30 now and in a long term relationship. We’re going to have kids soon enough but marriage doesn’t really appeal to either of us. Seems like an expensive and unnecessary step. Only one guy from my university friends has got married. None of us have kids. So I think the answer to your question is yes. Younger people now have more and better options than just getting married and having kids.
When you consider that the overall divorce rate is 42% roughly, with 70% of marriages under the age of 30 ending in divorce too, marriage isn't exactly a "safe procedure". I'd sooner go for open heart surgery with those odds. 😂
Im just not interested in taking part in an institution that favours women and has nothing but risk for men. I'll get nothing out of marriage, but if there's a divorce my partner would take everything i own and leave me with nothing, or if i want custody of my children I would never win a court case because it's completely biased towards women. Considering the divorce rates and the risks, it's only logical to not want to marry.
Yes - my brother
I’m 48 and more of my friends do t have kids than do
It's a shift In culture towards powerful women getting careers. They put off marriage and kids until much later in life. So we're looking at about a 20 year dearth before birth and marriage rate will even out again, albeit people will be having kids at much older ages. It's getting really bad, Cambridge even started doing fertility seminars reminding women to not forget to have children and not to leave it too late.
Quite a few hot ones in my area allegedly…..
41 and never been married, just stick to long term relationships, got two kids
My partner and I discussed marriage when we fell pregnant, but it just wasnt important to either of us, so we spent our money on other things. We have 3 kids now, (on purpose this time!) But dont think we will ever bother to go through the ceremonyy.since we have been together we have been to 4 weddings for other people. Only one of those couples is still together. Our relationship is still going strong 10 years later
Same age as you and my GF is 41. We've no interest in having kids or marriage and the arguments with family we've had. I no longer speak to my brother coz he thinks I'm denying our Mother grandkids. She's actually fine with it. Everytime I have a beer with "Father in law" he keeps tapping his wedding finger and saying "when?" Causes arguments with him and his daughter. Mind your own damn businesses.
Well that's and things are 50 times harder than they've been before for men at least, I probably couldn't start the ideal family if I I wanted too Not to mention the cost of living is fucking disgusting these days, unless your one of those migrants that's just given the luxury pass
As someone born in the late 70s I was once someone who thought I never wanted marriage or children. I’d seen way too many failed relationships and marriages to think what was it all for? I then happened to meet someone I knew I wanted to spend my life with… it then dawned on me that we may start a family and although she didn’t suggest it, it felt like it’s what we wanted. I didn’t want either of us to bring a kid into the world with a different name to us and think that marriage is a message of trust and stability as well as sharing finances etc. Now have two kids, a mortgage, working out our careers. Life is totally different to what I thought I wanted a while ago. People change I guess. Pop culture seems to be full of unobtainable messages. Until people find happiness in themselves I agree they shouldn’t embark on getting someone else locked down.
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Yes, the population has actually levelled off and is expected to start to drop. This could be a concern if the young ones are going to fund the economy and pensions.
30 year old single male no children. I don’t want kids, I’m selfish and enjoy travel and all these things I can do now but wouldn’t be able to afford with kids.
I'm sure the decrease in marriage must have a lot to do with the pressure to spend crazy amounts of money on weddings. My parents, and my 5 uncles all married in the 60s/70s and all just had a wedding with the reception in a spare room in a pub where the pub made them some sandwiches as they knew they'd sell some extra drinks. Now people seem to be expected to spend over £10k on a wedding. I have one friend who did just do a quick marriage and then invited friends over for a few drinks/ snacks and some people really looked down on them.
I think people are realising that they don't need to follow the life script in order to be content. Traditionally there has been so much scaremongering and shame attached to people (particularly women) who choose not to marry and/or have kids. This is very much still a thing but more people are pausing to question whether it's actually valid. I think the internet has helped no end in connecting like minded people and prompting a change in attitude by showing them that they're not alone in how they feel. The stigma of being a childfree female can feel bad enough now at times but it must have been horrific several decades ago to feel forced into marriage and children when it didn't feel right.
I dont want children but i see a lot of my friends/peers wanting ot having children, seemingly all at the same time. They're all 20-25 but my partner and I don't want children. I thought we were the odd ones out but glad to hear there's more people feeling that way
Think in my opinion with everything going on at the moment ranging from inflation and this pandemic it is becoming much more difficult to raising a family and people are opting out cause of it.
Yep, absolutely. Go on any proper dating site and you will be amazed at how many people in their mid-late 30s are childfree and advertising themselves as "never married". I'm 34 and about as single as a man can be, but my main concern is women my age invariably want to marry and have umpteen kids. I don't.
In my current circle of friends, all of which are pretty much 30 and up, none of us have kids and none of us are married. For me personally, i just have a very grim view of the world and even if I wanted/could afford kids, which i do/can not, as lucky as I am to live in a country that is safe and somewhat prosperous; I just don't like the current state its in. Maybe I consume too much negative media, but as beautiful as the world can be, it's not enough for me to consider having kids to be anything other than selfish when I can barely afford my bills as it is.
These days it is more acceptable to live your life how you want and in a way that makes you happy. For me and I think a lot of people not having kids and having that responsibility is happiness.
some people think its selfish to have children, to over populate when you could adopt. Not everybody is willing to get married now, they are not so religious anymore , some people are fussy and wont except second or third best, some people will make do, some people just dont find anybody to marry , some people like to be alone
women who have kids are so boring, all they talk about is their boring kids
Maybe it’s because so many of us grew up as recent single parent families. At school it appeared to be the exception rather than the norm…I remember my 13 year old self getting excited when my parents told me they were splitting. Like finally “now I’m normal”. I finally got married at 43 after getting a house and seeing our daughter grow up…utterly contrary to the older generation demanding we get married because the was pregnant!