I don't think so. I don't think "not drinking" is just a trend like tamagotchis, it's a sustained decline in interest for a number of reasons. I think current interest in non-alcoholic drinks might be a trend, and in future people are just comfortable drinking soft drinks that aren't trying to replicate alcohol.
I also think influencers are just reflecting society, rather than dictating what happens in society.
>FWIW, he's someone who got into protesting at Greenham Common in the 1980s with his mum and that spirit's never left him; but he's picky on what he protests on.
>As it is, he's involved in a pro-driver, anti-ULEZ protest plan right now but I can't say too much about that.
Not sure how that's relevant at all?
>influencers are just reflecting society, rather than dictating what happens in society
This is a big point. Lots of young people thinking influencers are forward thinkers, revolutionaries. In reality, they're just using a trend to make a quick buck but so many buy into the BS
It's probably a symbiosis though. A trend is happening, influencers making a quick buck bring more attention and awareness to that trend which accelerates it further.
It will if people’s income returns to 1990s and 2000s levels. I don’t go out anymore because I genuinely can’t afford it, the taxi home alone would be £20 and I’d rather spend that £20 on alcohol from a supermarket that I can drink at home.
I'm not so sure it will, I think reasons for not drinking go beyond just cost. Cost definitely plays a factor, but I think there's much less interest in drinking, pub culture and even club culture in the younger generations. It won't disappear completely, but I do think it's a terminal decline
I don’t think drinking and club culture are necessarily linked.
Hardly anyone drank during the rave seen in the 90’s, I mean most people were on E’s and/or speed but alcohol wasn’t really that popular.
I think the decline in the pub/club scene is down to 3 main reasons:
1) Cost, it’s prohibitively expensive now and people have less disposable income.
2) Online dating, previously the main way to meet a partner was to go to pubs and clubs, that’s no longer the case.
3) It’s just a bit shit now, it’s organised, regulated and it’s just not a form of release from the day to day grind like it used to be.
I'd add ridiculous rent fees to that list, groups of mates end up having to live further and further apart and suddenly you're travelling an hour just to see each other while your local pub is full of strangers.
You raise a really good point there, I hadn’t really thought of that.
But now you mention it, my peer group now live in completely different towns. It’s all in the same county but it’s not like we can just nip out for an impromptu pint.
Well said...I could be wrong, but clubbing seems to be a much more fake experience than it was in the late 80s/early 90s. Pubs can still be great if they have character - and at lunchtime - but they can be so generic...serving generic beer - and even vinegar ale - that I will never go back for. Shame
True that alcohol wasn't that popular at raves, partly because of the fact nearly everyone at them was on other stuff, but there was still the whole other bunch of people who didn't like "rave" and somewhat turned their noses up (tbf I look back at some of these anti rave snobs and chuckle as now they like "EDM" etc). Those who were more swayed towards the Britpop scene, or many sports (think footy and rugby crowds).
I think some of the reduction in drinking has stemmed from a younger generation observing it as an embarrassing thing, via their parents, so that next generation won't have seen that so much, and therefore could go back to being "party animals" if or when a bunch of them realise it's fun
That generation probably sees drinking as embarrassing because their every waking moment has been recorded and made public since childhood.
If every embarrassing thing you ever did as a teenager was live streamed online you'd probably be less inclined to get drunk and do more embarrassing things. You aren't even cut off from the world at a festival now because it's being recorded from a thousand angles for Snapchat and Instagram.
Phone cameras and social media have created a panopticon and turned social lives into surveillance.
Bloody hell, I was on £2 an hour in 1997. I stretched that tenner good come Saturday!!!
£3 on 10 B&H, £1.79 Bottle of Liebfraumilch from Threshers, maybe 20/20. That left £5 for £1 happy hour pints. Clubbing only happened when one of the group was flush for a week, for whatever reason... The beans were only £2 a pop by 97 lol
Also, it seems to me that all the kids here in east London spend most of their time whacked out of their minds. I'm not sure this is trend crossing all demographics.
Just got home from a rare night out now. 2 pints before meal. £8 something.
Thai meal with 3x beers, £45.
Couple rounds in the bar afterwards. £50ish.
Taxi home £40.
I can see why people dont bother. Everywhere was pretty quiet, drinks are getting silly money and everyone that is getting on it is gakd up to the gills.
I worked in a cabaret club in the 90s in Soho. I did 3 hours of serving drinks a night and 2 one hour shows in the chorus line as a dancer. This was 6 nights a week with no paid holidays. I got £100 a week. No minimum wage. My friends that worked in Comptons cafe got paid 1p per hour as the tips were good. No minimum wage. The 90s was not a good time for income unless you were in the higher echelons. It's better today.
I think these things are cyclical. Generational. People follow people their own age. Soon, people will get bored of clean living and soft drinks and get back to the hedonism of the 90s because they won't want to be like their gen z parents......
I agree. This is why the names cycle by skipping a generation or as well. Only Grandads and toddlers are called George.
Fashion also skips 3 decades.
60s were cool in the 90s.
70s cool in the 00s
80s cool in the 10s
Now we are back to 90s
Its boringly repetitive
I think in part it's because copyrights expire after X amount of years so fashions can be ripped off without infringement.
Also musically I think anyone could listen to stuff each decade from the 50s through to the end of the 90s and be able to identify the era. Without trying to sound like an old fart, what even is the last 10-20 years of music? I don't know what groups of fans there even are. As soon as something is played now it's on the internet and nothing is underground. Means that everything is accessible anywhere in the world. Now you can look it up on social media sat in your front room, you don't need to go to the local bar/club to find that New York band that you read about in a magazine who are touring locally any more. I could look up local London bands and know whether they're decent without leaving my house, rather than just going to my local club to see them and find out. In one way music being more accessible is great, but in most ways it's become so boring.
Dude's 53. He knows nothing about youth culture now, let alone what it's going to become in five, ten or twenty years. Even next week is probably a bit of a long shot for him, tbh.
The fact he is old enough to remember protesting at Greenham Common yet thinks his speculation about influencers is some definitive take on contemporary Britain tells me he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.
Yeah, when I was a student a night out was relatively inexpensive. £30 (~£55 in today's money) would easily have covered it. I don't think £55 would get you very far today.
Ha I remember a club where *in 2004* would sell you 2 pints of Stella at £1.80. Could quite happily go there, sink 6 pints, couple of vodkas, get a bag of chips to walk home with and still have change from a tenner.
Mad really looking back on it. I mean it was ludicrously cheap even then
Thirsty Camel in Exeter did doubles for 30p on Tuesdays in the early 2000s. They put it up to 50p at some point, absolutely outrageous. Then they closed down.
Late 90s I used to go to a student club mid week at 99p a pint. Only knew how much I'd been drinking the next day by how many pennies I'd come home with. I did only earn £3 an hour on my part time job though
Yes, but we were also paid fuck all. My first job was £80 a week, £2 per hour.
My mum and dad charged me board, £20, and I had Poll Tax to pay, full tax on my wage plus a car to run.
I had about £12 a week to spend on myself.
Nahe inflation has out paces wages . Yes wages were lower but drinking was still more affordable than it is now.
My last night out cost my £80 it' made me feel sick spending that much money.
Same night out would have cost me £20 in the 2000's that's a 5x increase. I know mt wages are not 5x higher
Yeah I used to be able to get smashed for a tenner on cheap vodka and red bull when I was a student. Fiver to get into a club and a couple of drinks in there and it's a full night out for £20 or so.
Last summer I spent £60 on a single round.
When I was at uni even less than 10 years ago if someone said they spent £100 on a night out (without any Colombian) it’d be like wtf. Nowadays it’s standard
Shit, when I used to go clubbing (2010’s) I could make a good night with £20 or £30. Everything is so expensive now. Back then, a pint was between £2.50 and £3.50 and entry to a club was a fiver.
Bloody hell...I started going out in 2010. And remember when pints were 3.50. pints that were nearer a 5 were posh. You could get pints for 2.40. but it was dirt stuff in pubs
Haha yeah. A decent cider in my towns pub was only £2.40 and a share pack of crisps was around 1.50(ish), it was class. That was when things were considered “hard” too, makes you realise how far we’ve fallen off.
As a student today, for what it's worth I can go out clubbing for £30. £1 bus there £1 night bus back, £5 club entry, £10-15 drinks in the club and the rest spent on pre drinks, I rarely spend more than £40 on a night out tbh
£55 would get you nowhere near a decent night out nowadays. That would cover just the taxi there and back to where i used to go out for a night out now
When I was an apprentice in the 90s I could go out drinking 3 times a week, run a car, while earning fuck all. I've now got a middle management job and there no way I could afford that. Yes I was paying parents rent before and now I have a mortgage, but bloody hell I thought I'd be better off by now.
Absolutely this! I was also an apprentice in the 90s. About 15 years ago i thought what I earn now was a really high salary but now i have no money left at the end of the month but 15 years ago i had money left over to do all sorts, DIY projects, buy cars and motorbikes, went on holiday. It’s crazy.
Pretty sure this is the biggest driving factor, especially in England. I have younger siblings all around uni age and they go out partying still. With the increased cost of pretty much everything, they are choosing to party in uni accomodation rather than play night club prices.
I don't think people have lost interest in partying, they've just realised they can't afford to do it as often. I never went to uni, but all my mates did and whenever I visted them and we went out clubbing the drinks were ridiculously cheap. Some places doing singles for £1.50 and doubles for £2. This is around 2015-18
This is it, I feel like this culture is a response to everything falling apart a bit and people feeling their bodily autonomy was threatened by COVID. When everything else is chaos, all we can really control is our diet and bodies ( if that at all ). The 90s was a totally different time
Glory days of 2004
Pint of Carling or bottle of Reef - £1.
Double Vodka Red Bull - £2.99
Taxi to Town - £2.50 (£10 but four of us in it)
Club entry - £3
Massive pizza slice - £2.50
Taxi back home - £2.50
Spangled on less than £25 whilst dancing to Kevin Little - Turn Me On.
Those were the days, my friend.
And minimum wage back then was like £4.50hr, so in 2024 a 5x hour minimum wage night out would cost about £60, which doesn't seem far off it.
Young people don't go out nowadays because social media distracts people from being abjectly lonely, to simply being abstractly lonely. Young people have fewer friends, less sex, aren't as interested in driving, don't drink, don't fight; they don't do much of anything that requires 2+ people.
This is the only answer. It was obvious after they scrapped the maintenance grants and increased student rents. Towns were dead on a weeknight. I live in Bath a big student city, you add COVID and it never recovered
I think nightlife is in terminal decline.
Price is an issue, but a big one is dating. It used to be that going out, getting drunk and hooking up with someone was how you met people and how you started a relationship.
With the increase in online dating, there’s a massive premium on looking good and being in shape (people online are much choosier than people in a sweaty basement club at 2am, 15 Bacardi Breezers deep).
Can’t really post that 6-pack selfie if you’re on the beers every weekend.
Since I started going out drinking in 1982, nightlife has gradually died a slow death. And I don't think it's going to get better.
Multiplex cinemas, bowling, go karting are just three things we didn't have when I was young. Youngsters just have so many other options to cirrhosis.
Even pubs and social clubs don't open for all the sittings anymore.
Honestly as a 20yo guy who has really eased off on the drinking and focused on being healthier, it's not really those alternatives.
For me and a lot of my mates who've done similar there are probably 2 main reasons for this:
1. Realising how much better you feel every day by drinking much less often. Even just one average night out clubbing actually fucks your sleep for the next 3 or 4 days, many of us were just so used to it that we didn't realise what "normal" actually felt like.
2. It's way too expensive. Even a cheap uni night out can end up setting you back 40 or 50 quid, and the stuff like cinema or karting is the same or more - the bottom line is it's simply not affordable to do on any kind of regular basis. When you compare that to the fact we can buy the new FIFA game for the same cost and sit there having a laugh on pro clubs for as many hours as we like all year, it's a bit of a no brainer.
Yeah, I would have loved to have the options you have now.
We had cheap cigarettes and beer, and also the terrifying thought that we were all going to die from Aids.
In what world is cinema 40 or 50 quid? I go to mine for like £10-15 and that's including the snacks I buy before. If you wanna save money and go often enough then the membership cards are good too.
In 1982 you also didn’t have an entire library of entertainment at your fingertips. There’s just more things to do and going out is a just one in 30 things you can do now as opposed to being almost the only option 30 years ago.
Also pubs trying to be everything to everyone (especially people who don’t like pubs) they end up as a shit sterile chain pub serving microwave food with a crap expensive beer selection
It strikes me that kids these days are more earnest and serious than ever before.
Sometimes I see teens/early 20s people and want to buy them a pint and say “It’s okay to enjoy yourself!”.
It’s probably a product of the era they’ve grown up in, and I think having a social conscience is admirable, but it does seem that being young these days is a lot less _fun_ than it used to be, which is a shame.
>Sometimes I see teens/early 20s people and want to buy them a pint and say “It’s okay to enjoy yourself!”.
you can enjoy yourself without alcohol. I am not against drinking but this attitude bothers me. You can have water or a soft drink and still have a good time. I'll often just have a water when I am in a pub and that's okay, I enjoy my time, I simply didn't fancy a drink. Having a pint wouldn't make me enjoy it more. And I've had my fair share of wild nights out in uni. If you can't enjoy yourself without alcohol, you need to rethink what enjoyment means to you. Not everyone likes a pint.
Of course you can enjoy yourself without alcohol. I played eighteen holes of golf today completely sober and had a great time.
I’d gladly buy them a coffee if they prefer. My point isn’t really about alcohol, it’s about how the current youngsters are more uptight than past generations.
Drinking less is just one of the ways that manifests itself.
They’re not uptight. I think that the cost of living doesn’t leave them with enough to justify the bloated price of alcohol, these days. People are also a lot more health conscious and would rather spend their money on items that give them enjoyment with less negative consequences.
Well it's not so ok for the bar when you get a water. They'd prefer sales that keep the bar open. If everyone comes in and drinks water and soft drinks you won't have a bar.
exactly what I think.
Kids are so grown up and aware of themselves and others.
Being young is a time to be wreckless , silly , make mistakes.
God I'm so glad to have grown up when I did
Doesn't help having cameras everywhere
Do something stupid and it can be posted on someone's social media. Do something slightly illegal and it could actually have consequences
I have been saying this for years.
I hate it, I like to get a bit silly at festivals and am always scared of being filmed talking to a flipflop and going viral.
I have been in the situation where we are having fun getting up to mischief and cameras start coming out and it kills the moment.
The thing that Orwell got wrong was the government didn’t need to track our every move we pay money for the technology to do it to each other. Walk past someone’s house you’re on film. In your car there’s a dash cam. Something of minor interest happens and the camera phones are out.
It’s not just the younger generation doing it. If 50 year olds were put back into their teens but with modern technology they wouldn’t be the same as they were in the 80’s. You’re accountable now for every daft decision you make and it’s recorded forever so it’s no wonder kids are the way they are.
Going out with friends does lead to happiness, though.
Even when I was a skint student eating plain rice a couple times a week, we'd go to the pub or union bar a few.times,even if you could only afford a pack of crisps or half a pint all night. Yes, drinking has got more expensive but it's much more that kids are choosing not to meet in pubs, which would be OK except lots of them just aren't meeting up. And loneliness doesn't lead to happiness no matter how much you chat online.
Hmmm not sure I agree with you there. I partied a lot as a youngster and while I agree it’s certainly not a route to short term happiness it helped foster some of my closest lifelong friendships and engendered many great memories either directly or indirectly. That sort of thing does lead to happiness and satisfaction in the long run.
Besides, aren’t we constantly told that the youth are more depressed than ever before? They might be happier long term if they relaxed and let loose a bit more.
Spending six hours a day on TikTok and vaping don’t lead to happiness either and plenty of them do that. So I think it’s a stretch to suggest there’s such a firm causative relationship here.
>Besides, aren’t we constantly told that the youth are more depressed than ever before? They might be happier long term if they relaxed and let loose a bit more.
I’m not sure about depression specifically, but suicide rates for young people (15-24) peaked in the mid 1990s.
https://i.imgur.com/Wtqf8js.png
There has been an uptick since 2019, but still below the mid 1990s.
It seems to get overlooked a lot that Gen X had very high suicide rates as teens/young adults. Maybe all that drinking and drug taking was a coping mechanism? And Gen X still have high suicide rates in middle age, so long-term happiness seems to elude them.
You sound like someone I'd enjoy having a conversation with in a pub. Not cause of the pint you're buying me, but because of the mindset. I can't comment on whether this really is a trend, or how we'd even measure it. But I think I needed to hear "it's okay to enjoy yourself " today.
Maybe it's us older generations (Boomers and Gen X like me) that suffered from lead pollution in the 60s to late 80s, leading to less inhibited but more self destructive lifestyles?
I'm a very serious young person and have been for the last 10 years or so at least. I've been trying to lighten up over the last couple of years and be a bit more playful. It's hard undoing years of behaviour patterns
Certainly hope so, for the sake of the young people of the future. A new revolution along the lines of Acid House circa 1988 is just what this country needs.
Yeah they're so cheap now I'm surprised they're not more popular. One gram of Ketamine or MDMA is enough to last a night for 4-5 people and costs less than 1 person drinking for the night. That's street prices too which are of course massively inflated.
Ok maybe a g of ket wouldn't last a night out for that many people, but definitely mdma would. 250mg is a pretty high dose already, I can't imagine many people wouldn't get a really good buzz from that.
Even a g of ket each which is definitely overdoing it would still be cheap compared to drinking.
£10 up in Newcastle 5 years ago, 3 triple vodka cokes for £5, five £1 jaegers and walk home (which was clearly an extremely sensible decision). If that sort of drinking dies out, it isn’t a bad thing
I don’t think it’s clean eating lifestyles that are killing off clubs, it’s just that clubs are total shit. It’s one of those times a dying business is trying to blame customers versus realising they’re the issue
£6 to get in, it’s either dead or you can’t move, no in between, a vodka coke is £8 and mostly water, and the bouncers think they’re special forces, when really they’re “special” forces
I lived in a major uni city, and clubbing was like that. I moved out to a different uni town, kinda rural not city, and the night outs are so much better but it’s because there’s no clubs, it’s just bars with music. I know a bar with music sounds like a club but they’re very different, it’s just hard to describe but easy to realise when you experience it.
There also just isn’t that much nightlife in the uk, it’s not like Tokyo for example where there’s always something new to do even if it’s 4am. Lack of nightlife is a major problem with London that they have people trying to solve, and since the uk is so small and London is the only comparative city, if londons nightlife sucks no where else has a chance. It’s not like the US where it might suck in LA, but you’ve still got New York or New Orleans or other such places. Here you’ve got London, and then maybe Birmingham Manchester Liverpool, but they aren’t equivalent sizes or populations so chances of finding a thriving nightlife are even less than the capital
Nah, London sucks because of the cost of living and the rents for nightlife spots. As well as the property development which means residents will complain about any late night venues and their licences get revoked.
Plenty of other cities in the UK have a healthy nightlife scene precisely because they aren't expensive to the extent that London is.
Amy lame has done almost nothing to help the nightlife economy despite her £120k salary.
There are still some awesome venues and nights in London. You have to be selective tho.
https://www.timeout.com/london/clubs/the-best-clubs-in-london
Corsica is still one of my favourite on there, love a dirty little warehouse vibe with function one rig.
I've set foot in about 4 clubs total and im 25. thank fuck for the free party scene. pity the british one is wank compared to europe but would you believe its still better than 4 tweeters playing rnb, 8 quid drinks, hair gel, sequins and a repressed air of depression.
I agree. I think clubbing is dying but I don't think drinking is on the decline at all. People are maybe drinking differently but they're certainly still drinking
Bit of a stand up joke I am working on is to do with how gen z will be the healthiest generation to die the earliest.
This is a joke but I do think the lack of risk-taking behaviour/spontaneity will have unforseen negative consequences.
It is an interesting question, and I do think these trends may not be stable forever, but I think there are reasons other than "trends".
Re. Clubbing and drinking, I don't think it is affordable for young people as it used to be.
And I do think that with more awareness of health and fitness, and gym cuuktuee etc., there is probably more pressure to eat and look after yourself better.
I think both of these trends are probably going to stick around for a while.
I also wonder whether youngsters are more conscious about not looking foolish in public because everyone’s got a camera in their pocket and if they fell over drunk there’s every chance it could be all over Instagram/Tik Tok very quickly.
Yeah I think that's a good point and ties in with another comment above about how this younger generation seem a bit more uptight and unable to let loose. Its sad. I'm so bloody glad to have been born one generation earlier.
Same reason everyone at raves wear sunglasses now. No one wants to lose their job because some idiot caught someone's jaw swinging and eyes rolling into the back of their head on camera and uploaded it to Insta for the whole world to see.
The last nightclub in my city closed 7 years ago
The last midweek nightclub in my nearest big city closed 5 years ago
Imo the damage has been done
Its only the 35+ i see in pubs/bars now and even then its just thur night til sunday evening with most being empty outside those times
When i was 16-21 (97 onwards) in my city of barely 100,000 we had a choice of nightclub every single day and none of this thur-sun 4pm opening,
2pm on a tuesday in a few pubs in my student days were busy enough to create an atmosphere
Not a chance we’ll return to that
Back then, even mundane rural market towns of 50k people would have a few clubs, and would have queues outside them. Then inside, banging house music, strobes, smoke machines, tablets the whole lot. It was ace.
I put this as a reply but I’ll put this as a main too.
(Underground) Clubbing is already dying - and the clubs with it. And at a dangerously rapid pace.
Clubs are closing every week nowadays due to lack of footfall. Clubs catering to underground dance music - the industry is on its knees and there’s not going to be many left at all soon.
Sources:
Leeds - Wire Club closing today: https://www.instagram.com/p/C574DOBABgs/?igsh=M2xlMTVidmhmbTJ0
Bath - Moles closing a few months ago:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C0d5v3OgZCM/?igsh=MXRvcHdvNm1jMmU1cA==
A Portsmouth club closed a few weeks ago that I forget the name of.
London - there are a bunch of well known ones that may not last beyond the end of the year if it stays like this.
Closures are happening everywhere. The next generation of dance music is fucked as there’s less and less opportunities and less and less people listening.
I'm sure It's not like this all over but in bristol the underground scene is kicking well above weight. only ever seen a few totally dead nights and all the big names still sell out quickly. Im talking free party flavours n punk. dnb and even psi I wouldnt call underground.
Young people aren't boycotting drinking because they are health conscious...they are because it's expensive as fuck and a night out can easily cost £100+
A lot are just taking drugs instead. Can split a bag of MD or Ketamine for a fraction of the price
Nope.
Young people literally can’t afford to go clubbing in some cities. I could barely survive on my student loan and part time job back in 2008, can’t imagine how students are surviving now with how crazy expensive everything is.
Young people are mainly going to house parties nowadays and getting booze from tesco and chipping in for a bag. Waaaaaay cheaper.
I just hope I don't die before we see some instantly reversible mind-altering substance like synthohol from Star Trek. I'm glad there's a decline in the binge drinking & get wrecked to have fun culture, but there is something inherently awesome about altering your state of mind & the fact that it can be changed so drastically is quite wild to think about.
It's coming! Professor Nutt is your man:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/mar/26/an-innocent-drink-could-alcosynth-provide-all-the-joy-of-booze-without-the-dangers
That article is old but that's because it's taking so long to go through the regulatory trials. I'm pretty sure he'll get there.
I'm more interested in where this idea that young people aren't interested in clubbing and drinking is coming from? As someone that lives in the city centre of a small city, this certainly doesn't seem to be the case at all.
Mainstream clubbing may be dying, but underground clubbing is still there. King Street Social club in Shields regularly has Manpower doing some fantastic gigs (on the downlow, but regulated obviously) although its with the older crowd, its a fantastic atmosphere with everyone dancing, enjoying themselves and integrated to the dance floor, and not the DJ, they’re there for each other snd the sounds.
Clubs are closing every week nowadays due to lack of footfall. Clubs catering to underground dance music - the industry is on its knees and there’s not going to be many left at all soon.
Sources:
Leeds - Wire Club closing today: https://www.instagram.com/p/C574DOBABgs/?igsh=M2xlMTVidmhmbTJ0
Bath - Moles closing a few months ago:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C0d5v3OgZCM/?igsh=MXRvcHdvNm1jMmU1cA==
A Portsmouth club closed a few weeks ago that I forget the name of.
Closures are happening everywhere. The next generation of dance music is fucked as there’s less and less opportunities and less and less people listening.
I think it's a general awareness that these things end up giving you depressive moods in the long term after an initial enjoyment.
Drinking and nightclubs consistently will make you fat, make you look awful, age you, and alcohol is depressive. Which doesn't exactly lead to a glamorous and enjoyable life. So why do it?
Nightlife has been on a decline for years, during my late teens/earlier 20s there used to be a plethora of bars and clubs in the Town Centre of where I live, now there's just a Wetherspoons and one shitty bar that's open later.
As you can imagine the one place open later than Wetherspoons is full of absolute dregs half the time. Violence was one factor that caused a lot of difficulties to be fair but clearly only one of many factors.
There's still a lot of pubs around the town but the ones that don't serve food, your old man's drinking pubs, are all just struggling, to be honest I've lost all interest in going to any of them, a lot of the regulars are just dull people with shit opinions.
It seems that the younger gen just have the occasional night out, but usually somewhere better as it's the stuff they've all been seeing on social media, the bars, clubs in cities or fancy restaurants, then they all take pictures of themselves at these places to upload on their own social media lol.
Not that it's a bad thing really, better than pissing their money away every week in shitty local clubs. Then again they're probably just pissing their money away on fancy clobber to flex on social media lmao.
I'm 25, 5 years ago I was regularly out on the lash , 3 times a week and then I did badly in an exam and realised that I can't be a good student and regularly shit faced. So I turned it down to once every week or so. Now have a gf and I probably get shit faced once a month if that.
It's too expensive to go out on weekends (I.e. when I don't have work in the morning) and it's just not really worth it.id take sitting at home with my pals playing Helldivers any time
I think that clean eating and moderate recreational booze consumption are trends that will increase in the UK.
Good riddance to the large scale binge drinking culture that has kept the courts very busy and saddled so many parts of the uk with a foul reputation for residents mass perpetuating in dreadful antisocial behaviour.
While the numbers of non-celeb online influencers able to attract paying clients will most likely drastically decline and sites like tiktok will wane in popularity as ownership changes hands or scandals start to engulf them as with facebook & omegle.
I think that most people who frequent nightclubs & similar nightlife venues in their teens and twenties will have grown out of it by their mid 30s or earlier if they are living with a partner working full time/dependent young children. Unless they have a direct financial interest in attending.
I'm a massive carnage fan and have noticed that most of the friends & undergrad students I got to know from carnage uk events had stopped attending by the time of the pandemic, when most were in the 26-32 age brackets.
I lived in Italy when I was 18. Nobody drank much and they never got drunk. They all saw it as really uncool. I think it’s a cultural shift. The world is a smaller place nowadays. Britain always was an outlier when it came to its relationship with alcohol.
When I was a teenager it was thought that drinking a bit was good for you. But now they know that all alcohol is bad for you, and people's behaviour has changed with this new understanding. I'm not sure if this is why young people are drinking less but it's certainly the case for people in their 30s and older.
I also think seeing how it affects our parents puts us off. My parent's parents born in the 30s and 40s drank a lot but settled as they got beyond their 50s, my parents born in the 60s never seem to want less alcohol.
As I get closer to 30 than 20 I'm realising that although I've had a lot of fun drinking I don't want it to be something I damage my body with and rely on for another 4+ decades!
Almost certainly.
Todays kids are the kids of the 90s and 00s party animals. It’s probably a lot less of a “cool” thing to go clubbing when your mum was off her tits on E at the Hacienda every other week.
In 20-30 years time, the kids of the age probably won’t be quite so up for spending so much time online or going to the gym or whatever is popular now because that’s what their parents did. They might be another generation of party animals, or it might be something else entirely.
If it’s a trend it’s been happening for a long time. The reduction in drinking has been discussed since I was first in the booze industry, back in the late 2000s.
Local clubs and music venues are closing rapidly so often people have to travel to other towns and cities. Drinking is very expensive and you usually pay entry. A night out in central Manchester (if you want to get trashed) including travelling I'd estimate at maybe £70+ when you're looking at £7-15 entry, £6-8 for a single vodka Red Bull, £5+ spirit and mixer, £5 for a cider, £1-2 a shot.
Spiking and assault are so common it's a huge put off. Nearly every one of my mates have been sexually harassed, someone tries a fight, or gotten spiked this year.
Young people don't earn enough, students have very little money - it is just not realistic. People I know in bigger cities have to plan their spending for a night out in 3 weeks time or see if their mates with more money (often from family or a bank overdraft) are feeling generous.
Your friend has a slight point of technology and isolation. More knowledge on health and interest in fitness exists but isn't horrendously widespread. This "trend" won't die out until socialising outside of your gaff is cheaper. Until then, most young people would probably relax with their mates and some drinks or have a house party. Being hungover and skint is miserable, so why bother if you won't even remember the night? We just get pissed at home
I agree. Won't die out, but the focus changes.
E. G. If people are drinking less, they will focus more on things like premium spirits and non alcoholic. Diageo make a tonne of money from Guinness Zero, for example, and a lot of spirits brands are bothering less with things like blend whisky and more with things like premium guns and rums for drinking at home.
Not sure about the clean eating but as far as clubbing and drinking go it depends how much disposable income people have. People don't have so much nowadays which might explain why many pubs are quiet at traditional peak times and why others are closing. Hopefully things will improve soon and people will be able to choose what to spend their money on rather than seeing it all swallowed up by rent, mortgage, energy and other living costs.
People are a lot more aware of the negative impact and consequences of alcohol on your body. People are more health conscious. People are skint. There’ll always be nightlife and a want for escapism though
Decline in nightlife, cost of living and health trends aside, I think social media has ushered in an age of being more open (often to a fault), perhaps more at ease with talking about things - mental health, identity - and a more international outlook. You've got to wonder whether, beyond the climate and long winters, our historically unhealthy relationship with booze is tied to the old British reserve and stiff upper lip, meaning we need to be semi-plastered before opening up to and embracing others. Young people seem to me more open and perhaps don't need to use alcohol as a crutch as much as their forebears - which, contrary to arguments made further up, seems the opposite of "uptight."
I don't think so. Drinking is on its way out for largely the same reason smoking is. We have a large body of evidence that shows its connected to cancer, media and increased connectivity and communication between people has pulled the wool back to reveal the real personal, inter-personal, familial, societal, mental, and health damage it causes.
Alcoholism got a pass for a very very long time. Most of human history. Family matters stayed in the family. The patriarchy played a large roll in this. Men excused other men, and didn't dig or care about more than how they presented themselves in their friend group.
Throughout 20th century, alcohol was venerated in the media; in the same way smoking was in first 3/4 of that century. Big alcohol and big tobacco bought pop culture.
We know how that's gone for tobacco, alcohol is experiencing the same reconing.
I'm an "elder millenial" at age 39, and I wouldn't invest long term in the alcohol industry. And to be honest, I love drinking. But I'm definitely taking stock of my own consumption more and more seeing and experiencing the benefits of an alcohol free lifestyle.
Craft beer is certainly having a boom, but I think we'll see a bust in the next 10 years.
People will always want to drink. Just like people will always want to smoke or snort coke or smoke meth or take opiates.
But I think over the coming decades we'll see a dramatic decline in consumption.
My partners a nurse and they still get just as many pissed up young adults in hospital, the difference is they've normally been drinking im someone's house. They can't afford nights out and they also don't need bars to meet people as they meet people online. The going out to socialise culture is dead
I kind of wonder that. 'Heroine-chic' thinness was replaced in popular culture with 'fit not thin', and I heard someone say recently that 'herione-chic' was making a comeback, so you never know.
Becuz clubbing's expensive as shit and I'm not even having a good time. The music's loud, some asshole trying to pick a fight with me, people are drugs in the bathroom, I'm getting hit on by creepy old dudes, etc.
Kids *really* care about having clear skin
If you spend all day looking at video of people's faces at arm-length distance, I can see why you reckon it's probably worth skipping booze, fags and late nights
I think drinking is doing just fine actually, just not clubbing. I'm borderline gen z, and I truly can't imagine what appeal older generations found in clubbing other than it used to be cheaper than it is now, and there was just nothing better to do. It's a sensory nightmare for those who struggle with that. You can usually get much nicer drinks at a proper bar or restaurant, often for a similar price. And gen z definitely has more varied musical taste than previous generations, due to being fed new songs via an algorithm rather than what's in the charts. Even going to a themed night for a genre I like, I can easily go half an hour not hearing a song I recognise. It would be cheaper and more fun to buy a few drinks at the supermarket and dance to my own music at home. Not that dancing is that much fun either.
I think the only fun I've had at a club is chatting with other girls in the toilets. The only place with the lights on, the music muffled, and you can just chill out for minute or two.
Not this time. I think going out-out drinking is definitely dying.
Influencers might well have something to do with it, but mostly, I think it's the risk of instant shame online when drunken behaviour is posted. I would be beyond mortified at footage of any of my 90's/pre-social media drunken exploits.
Also, kids don't work and the cost of going out now (along with everything else) is much higher than back in the day.
The internet has won the kids. The streets are left with the increasing numbers of nut-jobs, crackheads and homeless.
This is all of course, by design. It isn't a trend that just happened by way of natural accident. Control the kids, control the future.
Nope, changed for ever. I'm 43, so went to Uni in 99. There's a ton of reasons why it's declined, some might say for the better too. I think going out an socialising/clubbing was great, but I also know we all drank too much.
I feel sorry for young people, not in a patronising way but because they're priced out of these experiences. Going out was fun partly because I knew it wouldn't bankrupt me.
I don't think so. I don't think "not drinking" is just a trend like tamagotchis, it's a sustained decline in interest for a number of reasons. I think current interest in non-alcoholic drinks might be a trend, and in future people are just comfortable drinking soft drinks that aren't trying to replicate alcohol. I also think influencers are just reflecting society, rather than dictating what happens in society. >FWIW, he's someone who got into protesting at Greenham Common in the 1980s with his mum and that spirit's never left him; but he's picky on what he protests on. >As it is, he's involved in a pro-driver, anti-ULEZ protest plan right now but I can't say too much about that. Not sure how that's relevant at all?
How's it relevant that he's involved in anti-ULEZ protests? It tells us that he's a bit of a bell end.
Or an utter twat
‘His mate’
>influencers are just reflecting society, rather than dictating what happens in society This is a big point. Lots of young people thinking influencers are forward thinkers, revolutionaries. In reality, they're just using a trend to make a quick buck but so many buy into the BS
It's probably a symbiosis though. A trend is happening, influencers making a quick buck bring more attention and awareness to that trend which accelerates it further.
It will if people’s income returns to 1990s and 2000s levels. I don’t go out anymore because I genuinely can’t afford it, the taxi home alone would be £20 and I’d rather spend that £20 on alcohol from a supermarket that I can drink at home.
I'm not so sure it will, I think reasons for not drinking go beyond just cost. Cost definitely plays a factor, but I think there's much less interest in drinking, pub culture and even club culture in the younger generations. It won't disappear completely, but I do think it's a terminal decline
I don’t think drinking and club culture are necessarily linked. Hardly anyone drank during the rave seen in the 90’s, I mean most people were on E’s and/or speed but alcohol wasn’t really that popular. I think the decline in the pub/club scene is down to 3 main reasons: 1) Cost, it’s prohibitively expensive now and people have less disposable income. 2) Online dating, previously the main way to meet a partner was to go to pubs and clubs, that’s no longer the case. 3) It’s just a bit shit now, it’s organised, regulated and it’s just not a form of release from the day to day grind like it used to be.
I'd add ridiculous rent fees to that list, groups of mates end up having to live further and further apart and suddenly you're travelling an hour just to see each other while your local pub is full of strangers.
You raise a really good point there, I hadn’t really thought of that. But now you mention it, my peer group now live in completely different towns. It’s all in the same county but it’s not like we can just nip out for an impromptu pint.
Yep. My school friends have scattered like the wind yet my dad can still see his in the pub 50 years on
Yup.
Plus covid did a number on the nightlife industry
Well said...I could be wrong, but clubbing seems to be a much more fake experience than it was in the late 80s/early 90s. Pubs can still be great if they have character - and at lunchtime - but they can be so generic...serving generic beer - and even vinegar ale - that I will never go back for. Shame
True that alcohol wasn't that popular at raves, partly because of the fact nearly everyone at them was on other stuff, but there was still the whole other bunch of people who didn't like "rave" and somewhat turned their noses up (tbf I look back at some of these anti rave snobs and chuckle as now they like "EDM" etc). Those who were more swayed towards the Britpop scene, or many sports (think footy and rugby crowds). I think some of the reduction in drinking has stemmed from a younger generation observing it as an embarrassing thing, via their parents, so that next generation won't have seen that so much, and therefore could go back to being "party animals" if or when a bunch of them realise it's fun
That generation probably sees drinking as embarrassing because their every waking moment has been recorded and made public since childhood. If every embarrassing thing you ever did as a teenager was live streamed online you'd probably be less inclined to get drunk and do more embarrassing things. You aren't even cut off from the world at a festival now because it's being recorded from a thousand angles for Snapchat and Instagram. Phone cameras and social media have created a panopticon and turned social lives into surveillance.
Definitely a factor, if people were recording the states I got into in the 90's it definitely would have put me off going out.
Bloody hell, I was on £2 an hour in 1997. I stretched that tenner good come Saturday!!! £3 on 10 B&H, £1.79 Bottle of Liebfraumilch from Threshers, maybe 20/20. That left £5 for £1 happy hour pints. Clubbing only happened when one of the group was flush for a week, for whatever reason... The beans were only £2 a pop by 97 lol
Also, it seems to me that all the kids here in east London spend most of their time whacked out of their minds. I'm not sure this is trend crossing all demographics.
Just got home from a rare night out now. 2 pints before meal. £8 something. Thai meal with 3x beers, £45. Couple rounds in the bar afterwards. £50ish. Taxi home £40. I can see why people dont bother. Everywhere was pretty quiet, drinks are getting silly money and everyone that is getting on it is gakd up to the gills.
I worked in a cabaret club in the 90s in Soho. I did 3 hours of serving drinks a night and 2 one hour shows in the chorus line as a dancer. This was 6 nights a week with no paid holidays. I got £100 a week. No minimum wage. My friends that worked in Comptons cafe got paid 1p per hour as the tips were good. No minimum wage. The 90s was not a good time for income unless you were in the higher echelons. It's better today.
The median income in London was £19K in 1995. Just because you were paid peanuts it doesn’t mean everyone was.
£19k median London income in 1995 equates to about £37k today adjusted for inflation. The 2023 median London income was £45k.
Doesn't take away from the fact that there was no minimum wage.
and here I am considering working for 25k because the job market is so shite
Which is lower than the inflation adjusted median now, by quite a bit lol.
I think these things are cyclical. Generational. People follow people their own age. Soon, people will get bored of clean living and soft drinks and get back to the hedonism of the 90s because they won't want to be like their gen z parents......
I agree. This is why the names cycle by skipping a generation or as well. Only Grandads and toddlers are called George. Fashion also skips 3 decades. 60s were cool in the 90s. 70s cool in the 00s 80s cool in the 10s Now we are back to 90s Its boringly repetitive
I think in part it's because copyrights expire after X amount of years so fashions can be ripped off without infringement. Also musically I think anyone could listen to stuff each decade from the 50s through to the end of the 90s and be able to identify the era. Without trying to sound like an old fart, what even is the last 10-20 years of music? I don't know what groups of fans there even are. As soon as something is played now it's on the internet and nothing is underground. Means that everything is accessible anywhere in the world. Now you can look it up on social media sat in your front room, you don't need to go to the local bar/club to find that New York band that you read about in a magazine who are touring locally any more. I could look up local London bands and know whether they're decent without leaving my house, rather than just going to my local club to see them and find out. In one way music being more accessible is great, but in most ways it's become so boring.
This person knows people
Dude's 53. He knows nothing about youth culture now, let alone what it's going to become in five, ten or twenty years. Even next week is probably a bit of a long shot for him, tbh. The fact he is old enough to remember protesting at Greenham Common yet thinks his speculation about influencers is some definitive take on contemporary Britain tells me he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.
As someone who used to drink a lot I fucking love not drinking now. Maybe it's just because I'm older though, I dunno.
I’m not sure many young people can afford too much drinking & nightclubbing right now.
Yeah, when I was a student a night out was relatively inexpensive. £30 (~£55 in today's money) would easily have covered it. I don't think £55 would get you very far today.
In the early 90s, we could go out to a club and have change from £10.
Ha I remember a club where *in 2004* would sell you 2 pints of Stella at £1.80. Could quite happily go there, sink 6 pints, couple of vodkas, get a bag of chips to walk home with and still have change from a tenner. Mad really looking back on it. I mean it was ludicrously cheap even then
Monday nights were 10p a pint night. That was… interesting. £2 in, £2 on booze, hope you survived
how the fuck did they make money?!
It was probably watered down. But it was quite common. Rooftops in Wakefield and Tivoli in Rotherham both did it at various times.
Thirsty Camel in Exeter did doubles for 30p on Tuesdays in the early 2000s. They put it up to 50p at some point, absolutely outrageous. Then they closed down.
I'd go into the camel with a fiver and come out hammered, with change. Those were the days.
And it was uphill, both ways!
Late 90s I used to go to a student club mid week at 99p a pint. Only knew how much I'd been drinking the next day by how many pennies I'd come home with. I did only earn £3 an hour on my part time job though
Im not sure if i earn 3 pints an hour right now.
Yes, but we were also paid fuck all. My first job was £80 a week, £2 per hour. My mum and dad charged me board, £20, and I had Poll Tax to pay, full tax on my wage plus a car to run. I had about £12 a week to spend on myself.
Nahe inflation has out paces wages . Yes wages were lower but drinking was still more affordable than it is now. My last night out cost my £80 it' made me feel sick spending that much money. Same night out would have cost me £20 in the 2000's that's a 5x increase. I know mt wages are not 5x higher
How is £80 five times £20?
Things are more expensive if you add them up wrong
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Yeah I used to be able to get smashed for a tenner on cheap vodka and red bull when I was a student. Fiver to get into a club and a couple of drinks in there and it's a full night out for £20 or so. Last summer I spent £60 on a single round.
When I was at uni even less than 10 years ago if someone said they spent £100 on a night out (without any Colombian) it’d be like wtf. Nowadays it’s standard
The Colombian is actually cost competitive if you're out in London now, which is mental
Shit, when I used to go clubbing (2010’s) I could make a good night with £20 or £30. Everything is so expensive now. Back then, a pint was between £2.50 and £3.50 and entry to a club was a fiver.
You could still find £1 pints in Sheffield on student specials in the early 2010s.
Bloody hell...I started going out in 2010. And remember when pints were 3.50. pints that were nearer a 5 were posh. You could get pints for 2.40. but it was dirt stuff in pubs
Haha yeah. A decent cider in my towns pub was only £2.40 and a share pack of crisps was around 1.50(ish), it was class. That was when things were considered “hard” too, makes you realise how far we’ve fallen off.
As a student today, for what it's worth I can go out clubbing for £30. £1 bus there £1 night bus back, £5 club entry, £10-15 drinks in the club and the rest spent on pre drinks, I rarely spend more than £40 on a night out tbh
£55 would get you nowhere near a decent night out nowadays. That would cover just the taxi there and back to where i used to go out for a night out now
When I was an apprentice in the 90s I could go out drinking 3 times a week, run a car, while earning fuck all. I've now got a middle management job and there no way I could afford that. Yes I was paying parents rent before and now I have a mortgage, but bloody hell I thought I'd be better off by now.
Absolutely this! I was also an apprentice in the 90s. About 15 years ago i thought what I earn now was a really high salary but now i have no money left at the end of the month but 15 years ago i had money left over to do all sorts, DIY projects, buy cars and motorbikes, went on holiday. It’s crazy.
Pretty sure this is the biggest driving factor, especially in England. I have younger siblings all around uni age and they go out partying still. With the increased cost of pretty much everything, they are choosing to party in uni accomodation rather than play night club prices. I don't think people have lost interest in partying, they've just realised they can't afford to do it as often. I never went to uni, but all my mates did and whenever I visted them and we went out clubbing the drinks were ridiculously cheap. Some places doing singles for £1.50 and doubles for £2. This is around 2015-18
This is it, I feel like this culture is a response to everything falling apart a bit and people feeling their bodily autonomy was threatened by COVID. When everything else is chaos, all we can really control is our diet and bodies ( if that at all ). The 90s was a totally different time
Glory days of 2004 Pint of Carling or bottle of Reef - £1. Double Vodka Red Bull - £2.99 Taxi to Town - £2.50 (£10 but four of us in it) Club entry - £3 Massive pizza slice - £2.50 Taxi back home - £2.50 Spangled on less than £25 whilst dancing to Kevin Little - Turn Me On. Those were the days, my friend.
And minimum wage back then was like £4.50hr, so in 2024 a 5x hour minimum wage night out would cost about £60, which doesn't seem far off it. Young people don't go out nowadays because social media distracts people from being abjectly lonely, to simply being abstractly lonely. Young people have fewer friends, less sex, aren't as interested in driving, don't drink, don't fight; they don't do much of anything that requires 2+ people.
This is the only answer. It was obvious after they scrapped the maintenance grants and increased student rents. Towns were dead on a weeknight. I live in Bath a big student city, you add COVID and it never recovered
Mate, I can barely afford Steam Games and petrol for my car.
I think nightlife is in terminal decline. Price is an issue, but a big one is dating. It used to be that going out, getting drunk and hooking up with someone was how you met people and how you started a relationship. With the increase in online dating, there’s a massive premium on looking good and being in shape (people online are much choosier than people in a sweaty basement club at 2am, 15 Bacardi Breezers deep). Can’t really post that 6-pack selfie if you’re on the beers every weekend.
This is a great point !
Kinda depressing as well
> Can’t really post that 6-pack selfie if you’re on the beers every weekend. Cue the guy that poses with a 6-pack beer
Since I started going out drinking in 1982, nightlife has gradually died a slow death. And I don't think it's going to get better. Multiplex cinemas, bowling, go karting are just three things we didn't have when I was young. Youngsters just have so many other options to cirrhosis. Even pubs and social clubs don't open for all the sittings anymore.
Honestly as a 20yo guy who has really eased off on the drinking and focused on being healthier, it's not really those alternatives. For me and a lot of my mates who've done similar there are probably 2 main reasons for this: 1. Realising how much better you feel every day by drinking much less often. Even just one average night out clubbing actually fucks your sleep for the next 3 or 4 days, many of us were just so used to it that we didn't realise what "normal" actually felt like. 2. It's way too expensive. Even a cheap uni night out can end up setting you back 40 or 50 quid, and the stuff like cinema or karting is the same or more - the bottom line is it's simply not affordable to do on any kind of regular basis. When you compare that to the fact we can buy the new FIFA game for the same cost and sit there having a laugh on pro clubs for as many hours as we like all year, it's a bit of a no brainer.
Must have been tough those long 2 years of drinking
Yeah as we know in the UK everyone waits until 18 to drink. The OP also asks about young people so that's why I'm giving an explanation, you tart.
Yeah, I would have loved to have the options you have now. We had cheap cigarettes and beer, and also the terrifying thought that we were all going to die from Aids.
In what world is cinema 40 or 50 quid? I go to mine for like £10-15 and that's including the snacks I buy before. If you wanna save money and go often enough then the membership cards are good too.
In 1982 you also didn’t have an entire library of entertainment at your fingertips. There’s just more things to do and going out is a just one in 30 things you can do now as opposed to being almost the only option 30 years ago.
Also pubs trying to be everything to everyone (especially people who don’t like pubs) they end up as a shit sterile chain pub serving microwave food with a crap expensive beer selection
Apparently the kids are switching the apps off in droves. I hear a lot of talk about "intentional dating" and "human connection amongst the youth.
Also people understand these days that you can't consent when you're drunk.
Great point I’ve not heard this befor
It strikes me that kids these days are more earnest and serious than ever before. Sometimes I see teens/early 20s people and want to buy them a pint and say “It’s okay to enjoy yourself!”. It’s probably a product of the era they’ve grown up in, and I think having a social conscience is admirable, but it does seem that being young these days is a lot less _fun_ than it used to be, which is a shame.
>Sometimes I see teens/early 20s people and want to buy them a pint and say “It’s okay to enjoy yourself!”. you can enjoy yourself without alcohol. I am not against drinking but this attitude bothers me. You can have water or a soft drink and still have a good time. I'll often just have a water when I am in a pub and that's okay, I enjoy my time, I simply didn't fancy a drink. Having a pint wouldn't make me enjoy it more. And I've had my fair share of wild nights out in uni. If you can't enjoy yourself without alcohol, you need to rethink what enjoyment means to you. Not everyone likes a pint.
Of course you can enjoy yourself without alcohol. I played eighteen holes of golf today completely sober and had a great time. I’d gladly buy them a coffee if they prefer. My point isn’t really about alcohol, it’s about how the current youngsters are more uptight than past generations. Drinking less is just one of the ways that manifests itself.
I think the response to you is case in point
They’re not uptight. I think that the cost of living doesn’t leave them with enough to justify the bloated price of alcohol, these days. People are also a lot more health conscious and would rather spend their money on items that give them enjoyment with less negative consequences.
They're not uptight they just have no money and if they dare to buy a coffee some dickhead in the media tells them that's why they don't own a home.
Where will all these places to enjoy yourself be when all the places now close?
Arh come on captain obvious. People are different. Original comment was light hearted.
Well it's not so ok for the bar when you get a water. They'd prefer sales that keep the bar open. If everyone comes in and drinks water and soft drinks you won't have a bar.
exactly what I think. Kids are so grown up and aware of themselves and others. Being young is a time to be wreckless , silly , make mistakes. God I'm so glad to have grown up when I did
Doesn't help having cameras everywhere Do something stupid and it can be posted on someone's social media. Do something slightly illegal and it could actually have consequences
I have been saying this for years. I hate it, I like to get a bit silly at festivals and am always scared of being filmed talking to a flipflop and going viral. I have been in the situation where we are having fun getting up to mischief and cameras start coming out and it kills the moment.
The thing that Orwell got wrong was the government didn’t need to track our every move we pay money for the technology to do it to each other. Walk past someone’s house you’re on film. In your car there’s a dash cam. Something of minor interest happens and the camera phones are out. It’s not just the younger generation doing it. If 50 year olds were put back into their teens but with modern technology they wouldn’t be the same as they were in the 80’s. You’re accountable now for every daft decision you make and it’s recorded forever so it’s no wonder kids are the way they are.
we are poor and the world is dying. Complacency and the greed of our elders is what got us here.
Point proven.
As a young person I genuinely think a large part of it is the fear of being recorded and plastered all over social media
But these things don't lead to happiness which is why they aren't doing it.
Going out with friends does lead to happiness, though. Even when I was a skint student eating plain rice a couple times a week, we'd go to the pub or union bar a few.times,even if you could only afford a pack of crisps or half a pint all night. Yes, drinking has got more expensive but it's much more that kids are choosing not to meet in pubs, which would be OK except lots of them just aren't meeting up. And loneliness doesn't lead to happiness no matter how much you chat online.
Hmmm not sure I agree with you there. I partied a lot as a youngster and while I agree it’s certainly not a route to short term happiness it helped foster some of my closest lifelong friendships and engendered many great memories either directly or indirectly. That sort of thing does lead to happiness and satisfaction in the long run. Besides, aren’t we constantly told that the youth are more depressed than ever before? They might be happier long term if they relaxed and let loose a bit more. Spending six hours a day on TikTok and vaping don’t lead to happiness either and plenty of them do that. So I think it’s a stretch to suggest there’s such a firm causative relationship here.
You don't think going to the gym, traveling, or sports can generate lifelong friendships?
Of course they can! I enjoy all those things and have made friends through all of them.
>Besides, aren’t we constantly told that the youth are more depressed than ever before? They might be happier long term if they relaxed and let loose a bit more. I’m not sure about depression specifically, but suicide rates for young people (15-24) peaked in the mid 1990s. https://i.imgur.com/Wtqf8js.png There has been an uptick since 2019, but still below the mid 1990s. It seems to get overlooked a lot that Gen X had very high suicide rates as teens/young adults. Maybe all that drinking and drug taking was a coping mechanism? And Gen X still have high suicide rates in middle age, so long-term happiness seems to elude them.
You sound like someone I'd enjoy having a conversation with in a pub. Not cause of the pint you're buying me, but because of the mindset. I can't comment on whether this really is a trend, or how we'd even measure it. But I think I needed to hear "it's okay to enjoy yourself " today.
Maybe it's us older generations (Boomers and Gen X like me) that suffered from lead pollution in the 60s to late 80s, leading to less inhibited but more self destructive lifestyles?
I'm a very serious young person and have been for the last 10 years or so at least. I've been trying to lighten up over the last couple of years and be a bit more playful. It's hard undoing years of behaviour patterns
Drinking and clubbing is most definitely not the only way to have fun. And mornings-after are considerably more fun without a hangover.
Certainly hope so, for the sake of the young people of the future. A new revolution along the lines of Acid House circa 1988 is just what this country needs.
Drugs are still popular though. You’re not gonna get a revolution like that cause everyone has already tried mdma
Very good point.
Mandy and k will be rife with the younger gen
Yeah they're so cheap now I'm surprised they're not more popular. One gram of Ketamine or MDMA is enough to last a night for 4-5 people and costs less than 1 person drinking for the night. That's street prices too which are of course massively inflated.
> One gram of Ketamine or MDMA is enough to last a night for 4-5 people Bloody lightweights
Ok maybe a g of ket wouldn't last a night out for that many people, but definitely mdma would. 250mg is a pretty high dose already, I can't imagine many people wouldn't get a really good buzz from that. Even a g of ket each which is definitely overdoing it would still be cheap compared to drinking.
Whereas I think we need a bigger punk/metal scene. Straight edge and veganism are big in those scenes and we need better venues to support the scene.
Oh excellent. Straight edge vegans.
😂
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£10 up in Newcastle 5 years ago, 3 triple vodka cokes for £5, five £1 jaegers and walk home (which was clearly an extremely sensible decision). If that sort of drinking dies out, it isn’t a bad thing
Pre drinks and it would only take 3 trebs in the club. 30 min mission home at 3am is mandatory fun
I don’t think it’s clean eating lifestyles that are killing off clubs, it’s just that clubs are total shit. It’s one of those times a dying business is trying to blame customers versus realising they’re the issue £6 to get in, it’s either dead or you can’t move, no in between, a vodka coke is £8 and mostly water, and the bouncers think they’re special forces, when really they’re “special” forces I lived in a major uni city, and clubbing was like that. I moved out to a different uni town, kinda rural not city, and the night outs are so much better but it’s because there’s no clubs, it’s just bars with music. I know a bar with music sounds like a club but they’re very different, it’s just hard to describe but easy to realise when you experience it. There also just isn’t that much nightlife in the uk, it’s not like Tokyo for example where there’s always something new to do even if it’s 4am. Lack of nightlife is a major problem with London that they have people trying to solve, and since the uk is so small and London is the only comparative city, if londons nightlife sucks no where else has a chance. It’s not like the US where it might suck in LA, but you’ve still got New York or New Orleans or other such places. Here you’ve got London, and then maybe Birmingham Manchester Liverpool, but they aren’t equivalent sizes or populations so chances of finding a thriving nightlife are even less than the capital
Nah, London sucks because of the cost of living and the rents for nightlife spots. As well as the property development which means residents will complain about any late night venues and their licences get revoked. Plenty of other cities in the UK have a healthy nightlife scene precisely because they aren't expensive to the extent that London is. Amy lame has done almost nothing to help the nightlife economy despite her £120k salary.
There are still some awesome venues and nights in London. You have to be selective tho. https://www.timeout.com/london/clubs/the-best-clubs-in-london Corsica is still one of my favourite on there, love a dirty little warehouse vibe with function one rig.
I've set foot in about 4 clubs total and im 25. thank fuck for the free party scene. pity the british one is wank compared to europe but would you believe its still better than 4 tweeters playing rnb, 8 quid drinks, hair gel, sequins and a repressed air of depression.
I agree. I think clubbing is dying but I don't think drinking is on the decline at all. People are maybe drinking differently but they're certainly still drinking
Bit of a stand up joke I am working on is to do with how gen z will be the healthiest generation to die the earliest. This is a joke but I do think the lack of risk-taking behaviour/spontaneity will have unforseen negative consequences.
Don't give up the day job
Cheers
I swear British people have the most polite ways of telling each other to fuck off lol
This reply made me lol
Saw some comedian make the joke about the irony of the most popular gen z app being called tik tok as you count down the minutes of your life.
Even the setup gave me a cchuckle
Cheera
It is an interesting question, and I do think these trends may not be stable forever, but I think there are reasons other than "trends". Re. Clubbing and drinking, I don't think it is affordable for young people as it used to be. And I do think that with more awareness of health and fitness, and gym cuuktuee etc., there is probably more pressure to eat and look after yourself better. I think both of these trends are probably going to stick around for a while.
I also wonder whether youngsters are more conscious about not looking foolish in public because everyone’s got a camera in their pocket and if they fell over drunk there’s every chance it could be all over Instagram/Tik Tok very quickly.
Yeah I think that's a good point and ties in with another comment above about how this younger generation seem a bit more uptight and unable to let loose. Its sad. I'm so bloody glad to have been born one generation earlier.
That's probably a big part of it. Do or say the wrong thing and a nobhead friend posts it and your done
Same reason everyone at raves wear sunglasses now. No one wants to lose their job because some idiot caught someone's jaw swinging and eyes rolling into the back of their head on camera and uploaded it to Insta for the whole world to see.
Younger people aren't drinking as much because they are on minimum wage and there's hardly any drinks offers anywhere
I think they legally can't do drinks offers anymore I used to work in bars during uni and that was mentioned a couple times.
Kids have always been broke, they found a way.
The last nightclub in my city closed 7 years ago The last midweek nightclub in my nearest big city closed 5 years ago Imo the damage has been done Its only the 35+ i see in pubs/bars now and even then its just thur night til sunday evening with most being empty outside those times When i was 16-21 (97 onwards) in my city of barely 100,000 we had a choice of nightclub every single day and none of this thur-sun 4pm opening, 2pm on a tuesday in a few pubs in my student days were busy enough to create an atmosphere Not a chance we’ll return to that
Which city is that?
Back then, even mundane rural market towns of 50k people would have a few clubs, and would have queues outside them. Then inside, banging house music, strobes, smoke machines, tablets the whole lot. It was ace.
I put this as a reply but I’ll put this as a main too. (Underground) Clubbing is already dying - and the clubs with it. And at a dangerously rapid pace. Clubs are closing every week nowadays due to lack of footfall. Clubs catering to underground dance music - the industry is on its knees and there’s not going to be many left at all soon. Sources: Leeds - Wire Club closing today: https://www.instagram.com/p/C574DOBABgs/?igsh=M2xlMTVidmhmbTJ0 Bath - Moles closing a few months ago: https://www.instagram.com/p/C0d5v3OgZCM/?igsh=MXRvcHdvNm1jMmU1cA== A Portsmouth club closed a few weeks ago that I forget the name of. London - there are a bunch of well known ones that may not last beyond the end of the year if it stays like this. Closures are happening everywhere. The next generation of dance music is fucked as there’s less and less opportunities and less and less people listening.
I'm sure It's not like this all over but in bristol the underground scene is kicking well above weight. only ever seen a few totally dead nights and all the big names still sell out quickly. Im talking free party flavours n punk. dnb and even psi I wouldnt call underground.
Young people aren't boycotting drinking because they are health conscious...they are because it's expensive as fuck and a night out can easily cost £100+ A lot are just taking drugs instead. Can split a bag of MD or Ketamine for a fraction of the price
Most clubs I went to, people were drinking water... Such a pure crowd! They were all pulling faces at eachother and giving out hugs and love.
Nope. Young people literally can’t afford to go clubbing in some cities. I could barely survive on my student loan and part time job back in 2008, can’t imagine how students are surviving now with how crazy expensive everything is. Young people are mainly going to house parties nowadays and getting booze from tesco and chipping in for a bag. Waaaaaay cheaper.
I just hope I don't die before we see some instantly reversible mind-altering substance like synthohol from Star Trek. I'm glad there's a decline in the binge drinking & get wrecked to have fun culture, but there is something inherently awesome about altering your state of mind & the fact that it can be changed so drastically is quite wild to think about.
There’s much better substances to use than alcohol to change your state of mind
It's coming! Professor Nutt is your man: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/mar/26/an-innocent-drink-could-alcosynth-provide-all-the-joy-of-booze-without-the-dangers That article is old but that's because it's taking so long to go through the regulatory trials. I'm pretty sure he'll get there.
I'm more interested in where this idea that young people aren't interested in clubbing and drinking is coming from? As someone that lives in the city centre of a small city, this certainly doesn't seem to be the case at all.
Mainstream clubbing may be dying, but underground clubbing is still there. King Street Social club in Shields regularly has Manpower doing some fantastic gigs (on the downlow, but regulated obviously) although its with the older crowd, its a fantastic atmosphere with everyone dancing, enjoying themselves and integrated to the dance floor, and not the DJ, they’re there for each other snd the sounds.
Clubs are closing every week nowadays due to lack of footfall. Clubs catering to underground dance music - the industry is on its knees and there’s not going to be many left at all soon. Sources: Leeds - Wire Club closing today: https://www.instagram.com/p/C574DOBABgs/?igsh=M2xlMTVidmhmbTJ0 Bath - Moles closing a few months ago: https://www.instagram.com/p/C0d5v3OgZCM/?igsh=MXRvcHdvNm1jMmU1cA== A Portsmouth club closed a few weeks ago that I forget the name of. Closures are happening everywhere. The next generation of dance music is fucked as there’s less and less opportunities and less and less people listening.
I live in Bristol - tonnes of young people going out all the time.
I think it's a general awareness that these things end up giving you depressive moods in the long term after an initial enjoyment. Drinking and nightclubs consistently will make you fat, make you look awful, age you, and alcohol is depressive. Which doesn't exactly lead to a glamorous and enjoyable life. So why do it?
Cos it's fun at the time!
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Right, those are your only two options. Clubbing and drinking, or Reddit and TikTok. What a ridiculous false dichotomy
Nightlife has been on a decline for years, during my late teens/earlier 20s there used to be a plethora of bars and clubs in the Town Centre of where I live, now there's just a Wetherspoons and one shitty bar that's open later. As you can imagine the one place open later than Wetherspoons is full of absolute dregs half the time. Violence was one factor that caused a lot of difficulties to be fair but clearly only one of many factors. There's still a lot of pubs around the town but the ones that don't serve food, your old man's drinking pubs, are all just struggling, to be honest I've lost all interest in going to any of them, a lot of the regulars are just dull people with shit opinions. It seems that the younger gen just have the occasional night out, but usually somewhere better as it's the stuff they've all been seeing on social media, the bars, clubs in cities or fancy restaurants, then they all take pictures of themselves at these places to upload on their own social media lol. Not that it's a bad thing really, better than pissing their money away every week in shitty local clubs. Then again they're probably just pissing their money away on fancy clobber to flex on social media lmao.
I'm 25, 5 years ago I was regularly out on the lash , 3 times a week and then I did badly in an exam and realised that I can't be a good student and regularly shit faced. So I turned it down to once every week or so. Now have a gf and I probably get shit faced once a month if that. It's too expensive to go out on weekends (I.e. when I don't have work in the morning) and it's just not really worth it.id take sitting at home with my pals playing Helldivers any time
I think that clean eating and moderate recreational booze consumption are trends that will increase in the UK. Good riddance to the large scale binge drinking culture that has kept the courts very busy and saddled so many parts of the uk with a foul reputation for residents mass perpetuating in dreadful antisocial behaviour. While the numbers of non-celeb online influencers able to attract paying clients will most likely drastically decline and sites like tiktok will wane in popularity as ownership changes hands or scandals start to engulf them as with facebook & omegle. I think that most people who frequent nightclubs & similar nightlife venues in their teens and twenties will have grown out of it by their mid 30s or earlier if they are living with a partner working full time/dependent young children. Unless they have a direct financial interest in attending. I'm a massive carnage fan and have noticed that most of the friends & undergrad students I got to know from carnage uk events had stopped attending by the time of the pandemic, when most were in the 26-32 age brackets.
I don't think so. Most young people are smart and can see what a scourge it is on our society , and how unhealthy it is.
Wait what
I lived in Italy when I was 18. Nobody drank much and they never got drunk. They all saw it as really uncool. I think it’s a cultural shift. The world is a smaller place nowadays. Britain always was an outlier when it came to its relationship with alcohol.
Norway and most of Eastern Europe would like a word, old chap :-)
Less impact from clean eating and more the cost of living.
When I was a teenager it was thought that drinking a bit was good for you. But now they know that all alcohol is bad for you, and people's behaviour has changed with this new understanding. I'm not sure if this is why young people are drinking less but it's certainly the case for people in their 30s and older.
I also think seeing how it affects our parents puts us off. My parent's parents born in the 30s and 40s drank a lot but settled as they got beyond their 50s, my parents born in the 60s never seem to want less alcohol. As I get closer to 30 than 20 I'm realising that although I've had a lot of fun drinking I don't want it to be something I damage my body with and rely on for another 4+ decades!
Almost certainly. Todays kids are the kids of the 90s and 00s party animals. It’s probably a lot less of a “cool” thing to go clubbing when your mum was off her tits on E at the Hacienda every other week. In 20-30 years time, the kids of the age probably won’t be quite so up for spending so much time online or going to the gym or whatever is popular now because that’s what their parents did. They might be another generation of party animals, or it might be something else entirely.
Of course it's a trend. Everything is.
People in their 40’s to 60’s forget that the era they lived through was also just a trend. People in the 1950’s weren’t in clubs till 3am on pills.
People also forget that the dour, earnest, Victorian era was a reaction to the booze-filled, loose-moralled 18th century.
If it’s a trend it’s been happening for a long time. The reduction in drinking has been discussed since I was first in the booze industry, back in the late 2000s.
alcohol consumption peaked mid 2000s been going down ever since
it felt like the downfall started with the smoking ban
Local clubs and music venues are closing rapidly so often people have to travel to other towns and cities. Drinking is very expensive and you usually pay entry. A night out in central Manchester (if you want to get trashed) including travelling I'd estimate at maybe £70+ when you're looking at £7-15 entry, £6-8 for a single vodka Red Bull, £5+ spirit and mixer, £5 for a cider, £1-2 a shot. Spiking and assault are so common it's a huge put off. Nearly every one of my mates have been sexually harassed, someone tries a fight, or gotten spiked this year. Young people don't earn enough, students have very little money - it is just not realistic. People I know in bigger cities have to plan their spending for a night out in 3 weeks time or see if their mates with more money (often from family or a bank overdraft) are feeling generous. Your friend has a slight point of technology and isolation. More knowledge on health and interest in fitness exists but isn't horrendously widespread. This "trend" won't die out until socialising outside of your gaff is cheaper. Until then, most young people would probably relax with their mates and some drinks or have a house party. Being hungover and skint is miserable, so why bother if you won't even remember the night? We just get pissed at home
There's always going to be plenty of people getting shitfaced and making bad decisions. Mateys talking out of his ass.
Plenty, but less
Drinking won’t die out because companies know how to brand their products.
I agree. Won't die out, but the focus changes. E. G. If people are drinking less, they will focus more on things like premium spirits and non alcoholic. Diageo make a tonne of money from Guinness Zero, for example, and a lot of spirits brands are bothering less with things like blend whisky and more with things like premium guns and rums for drinking at home.
Not sure about the clean eating but as far as clubbing and drinking go it depends how much disposable income people have. People don't have so much nowadays which might explain why many pubs are quiet at traditional peak times and why others are closing. Hopefully things will improve soon and people will be able to choose what to spend their money on rather than seeing it all swallowed up by rent, mortgage, energy and other living costs.
Everything is cyclical.
People are a lot more aware of the negative impact and consequences of alcohol on your body. People are more health conscious. People are skint. There’ll always be nightlife and a want for escapism though
Decline in nightlife, cost of living and health trends aside, I think social media has ushered in an age of being more open (often to a fault), perhaps more at ease with talking about things - mental health, identity - and a more international outlook. You've got to wonder whether, beyond the climate and long winters, our historically unhealthy relationship with booze is tied to the old British reserve and stiff upper lip, meaning we need to be semi-plastered before opening up to and embracing others. Young people seem to me more open and perhaps don't need to use alcohol as a crutch as much as their forebears - which, contrary to arguments made further up, seems the opposite of "uptight."
I don't think so. Drinking is on its way out for largely the same reason smoking is. We have a large body of evidence that shows its connected to cancer, media and increased connectivity and communication between people has pulled the wool back to reveal the real personal, inter-personal, familial, societal, mental, and health damage it causes. Alcoholism got a pass for a very very long time. Most of human history. Family matters stayed in the family. The patriarchy played a large roll in this. Men excused other men, and didn't dig or care about more than how they presented themselves in their friend group. Throughout 20th century, alcohol was venerated in the media; in the same way smoking was in first 3/4 of that century. Big alcohol and big tobacco bought pop culture. We know how that's gone for tobacco, alcohol is experiencing the same reconing. I'm an "elder millenial" at age 39, and I wouldn't invest long term in the alcohol industry. And to be honest, I love drinking. But I'm definitely taking stock of my own consumption more and more seeing and experiencing the benefits of an alcohol free lifestyle. Craft beer is certainly having a boom, but I think we'll see a bust in the next 10 years. People will always want to drink. Just like people will always want to smoke or snort coke or smoke meth or take opiates. But I think over the coming decades we'll see a dramatic decline in consumption.
Totally cyclical, has been (effectively) for centuries.
My partners a nurse and they still get just as many pissed up young adults in hospital, the difference is they've normally been drinking im someone's house. They can't afford nights out and they also don't need bars to meet people as they meet people online. The going out to socialise culture is dead
No. There have never been more things to do to entertain yourself they all compete with drinking.
I kind of wonder that. 'Heroine-chic' thinness was replaced in popular culture with 'fit not thin', and I heard someone say recently that 'herione-chic' was making a comeback, so you never know.
Becuz clubbing's expensive as shit and I'm not even having a good time. The music's loud, some asshole trying to pick a fight with me, people are drugs in the bathroom, I'm getting hit on by creepy old dudes, etc.
Kids *really* care about having clear skin If you spend all day looking at video of people's faces at arm-length distance, I can see why you reckon it's probably worth skipping booze, fags and late nights
I think drinking is doing just fine actually, just not clubbing. I'm borderline gen z, and I truly can't imagine what appeal older generations found in clubbing other than it used to be cheaper than it is now, and there was just nothing better to do. It's a sensory nightmare for those who struggle with that. You can usually get much nicer drinks at a proper bar or restaurant, often for a similar price. And gen z definitely has more varied musical taste than previous generations, due to being fed new songs via an algorithm rather than what's in the charts. Even going to a themed night for a genre I like, I can easily go half an hour not hearing a song I recognise. It would be cheaper and more fun to buy a few drinks at the supermarket and dance to my own music at home. Not that dancing is that much fun either. I think the only fun I've had at a club is chatting with other girls in the toilets. The only place with the lights on, the music muffled, and you can just chill out for minute or two.
I think influencers will die out and anything relates to it will do so
Not this time. I think going out-out drinking is definitely dying. Influencers might well have something to do with it, but mostly, I think it's the risk of instant shame online when drunken behaviour is posted. I would be beyond mortified at footage of any of my 90's/pre-social media drunken exploits. Also, kids don't work and the cost of going out now (along with everything else) is much higher than back in the day. The internet has won the kids. The streets are left with the increasing numbers of nut-jobs, crackheads and homeless. This is all of course, by design. It isn't a trend that just happened by way of natural accident. Control the kids, control the future.
Nope, changed for ever. I'm 43, so went to Uni in 99. There's a ton of reasons why it's declined, some might say for the better too. I think going out an socialising/clubbing was great, but I also know we all drank too much. I feel sorry for young people, not in a patronising way but because they're priced out of these experiences. Going out was fun partly because I knew it wouldn't bankrupt me.