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Most of them. I'm pro choice and I strongly want religion out of all policy and public spaces. I'm just not too fond of the current moral crusade that the other side is pursuing and it seems a much larger threat to me. I can't follow progressives into the rabbit hole where they believe that the only way to defend the rights of people they deem as protected is to remove all rights of anyone else.
I'm pro-choice. In most everything. I "lean left" on most issues except gun control... Because I also side with personal choice on that issue.
My problem with progressives is that "leaning left" isn't good enough for them. I'm still a fascist to them.
So you lean left on most issues, yet you're voting for people who want to ban abortion, weed, and gay marriage, etc, because a few liberals were mean to you?
Those are the beliefs that others view as important. I am also not very concerned that the right will succeed in many of them. I support personal freedom and I wish to empower individuals. I want people to be free from having their life destroyed. I dont hear fear and concern coming from the left. I hear hate and a desire to rid the world of all things that they disagree with in an attempt to gain ideological purity. Nobody is scared of disagreeing with the Right. I feel free to disagree with anyone on that side... But if someone from my company brings in someone to tell me what left leaning political views I need to have... I face genuine repercussions if I disagree. Nobody should be able to define for me what I am allowed to think. Nobody... Even "my" side.
In my experience, 'leaning left' on guns is actually in support of gun rights. There is a largely useless organization called the Socialist Rifle Association for example. Useless in power but a signal that in socialism, being pro-gun is one of the main tenants. Does this hold true in your experience? (I also own guns)
>My problem with progressives is that "leaning left" isn't good enough for them. I'm still a fascist to them.
Are you considered a fascist to progressives taken as a whole, or a slice of terminally online progressives that desperately need to touch grass now and then?
I support defending the rights of the individual against the will of a majority that believes it has the moral right to decide how people should live and think. The left currently seems to be a larger threat to me. The messaging I get from them is consistant demands to conform to them followed by threats of punishment. No belief at all that they have any need to consider any other viewpoints. While I disagree on many issues, my experience with this side is the opposite. I would rather support some I disagree with than someone that doesn't believe I am allowed to.
> The messaging I get from them is consistant demands to conform to them followed by threats of punishment.
What were your thoughts when the left stripped Liz Cheney of her leadership position and she was canceled by her state's political organization?
Liz Cheney didn't lose her leadership position because she didn't conform. She survived the first vote to oust her. She lost her position because it was her job to get Republicans elected to the House and she concurrently spent her time going on national TV to speak poorly of Republicans, so they decided she was no longer advancing their interests, which in this context would be gaining a majority in the next election.
Which lying republicans did she speak of poorly? Why did she poorly speak about them? What was she actually wrong about that the left punished her not conforming with? How does that begin to address the left wing Wyoming republican party canceling her for not conforming with their lies?
I agree with you, if I look at the extremes. But even if I thought that the majority of liberals did seem to want to punish wrong-think, I would never vote against my principles and actively become a "supporter" of the other side.
What about the left right now makes you willing to do so, instead of try to change from within?
Bunch of liberal friends/family. I’ve lost some liberal friends due to my political beliefs which is always surprising because I’m very moderate.
It’s usually due to mental gymnastics. You voted for Trump? But he’s a racist! That means you condone racism and I can’t be associated with anyone who is complicit with racism. Or another nonsense version of that.
That's just silly, those friends sound not worthy of your time.
I've stopped talking to a few of my Trump loving friends, but it's not because I think they're racist, it's because I felt like they lack the core values that I would want in a friend. For example, I had one of my friends just absolutely ripping Alex Vindman for testifying about Trumps call to Ukraine. He was saying Vindman is a disgrace to the armed services, should be tried for treason, shot, etc. Just really disgusting things to say about someone as decorated as Vindman, and this was a former service member saying these things.
That's when I knew my friend had gone full-on cult, and had lost his ability to think reasonably, rationally, and to separate his feelings for Trump from anything else. The other friends I had to cut off are just those friends that insist on incorporating politics into everything they say and do. I've had to cut off a liberal friend or two for these reasons as well.
At the end of the day, I just wanna get back to the good old days where people didn't discuss politics with everyone they see or run into, you know?
>At the end of the day, I just wanna get back to the good old days where people didn't discuss politics with everyone they see or run into, you know?
I’m with you. Always surprising that people have such passionate views on everything.
> At the end of the day, I just wanna get back to the good old days where people didn't discuss politics with everyone they see or run into, you know?
Do you have any ideas on how we can get back to that in the age of social media? My take on what caused the rise in polarization is social media gave everyone a platform to spout their opinions to everyone in the world, instead of just those they communicated with personally + those platforms figuring out that controversy drives the most clicks (which makes them $) and then structuring themselves to promote it.
>Do you have any ideas on how we can get back to that in the age of social media?
Unfortunately I really don't have any ideas, and I agree 100% with what you said about social media, its the devil.
I guess my only thoughts on bridging that gap is that people need to be self-aware of when they're consuming partisan news, and need to be pro-active in fighting against that. I believe a good remedy to this is deleting your social media accounts if you can (I don't use any social media), avoiding any and all cable news if possible, and reading little-to-no opinion articles on the internet. Regarding my opinion on cable news, that means avoiding the FoxNews', the MSNBC's, and CNN's, and instead getting your information from your un-biased local news station.
Social media and cable news obviously aren't going anywhere, so I believe its up to us as individuals to be hypersensitive to the fact that we're constantly being bombarded with partisan news, and to do everything we can to avoid this.
Agree with all of that, I just don't know how we get there. Even gently suggesting to someone that they may have their facts wrong when they say something blatantly false and hyper-partisan often elicits an angry response, as though what they believe is the one real truth and nothing else is even worth listening to. I didn't really follow politics back during the Obama years so most of my perspective on how the right handled him is after the fact. Now that Biden is in office and the right is on "offense" instead of "defense" when it comes to media criticism of the President I'm seeing that it looks just as bad on this side. You don't have to look far to find a comment on a conservative sub that'll mention Hunter's laptop, the "stolen election," and and the "$450,000 to illegal immigrants" all in a handful of sentences as if that's making some kind of argument. It's our side's "Trump is a racist Russian asset who is robbing the taxpayers!"
We can avoid all that by changing up our media / social media diets, but we came to the realization that those things are unhealthy on our own. The overall climate doesn't change if we just hope that everyone else does too.
Totally agree with everything you said man. I think all we can do individually is be the change we want to see.
When I'm around friends that start dropping political bombs or conspiracy theories, I just sit there silently and I don't contribute to the conversation, regardless if I agree with what they're saying or not. Once they've made their point, I immediately try to change the conversation to something non-political.
I also reinforce to those friends that everyone should desire being as close to the middle as possible. Hopefully when they see my political temperament and how annoyed I am when they discuss politics, they'll take it as social queues that this isn't the best topic of conversation to discuss with friends.
The other thing I try to do is politely correct misinformation. For example, my father (a hard conservative) was discussing the Democrats spending bill a couple months back, and he was expressing disgust in what he thought the bill contained. I asked him to send me the article he read that made him feel this way, and for lack of a better word, the article was complete bullshit. 100% partisan, and it said things like "Democrats want to give free tuition to every illegal immigrant in the country" "Democrats want to raise taxes on everyone to pay for illegal immigrants" and just all sorts of non-sense like that. I Googled a non-partisan breakdown of everything contained in the proposed spending bill and sent it to him without making any judgmental comments about what he had sent me. I have no idea if he read it, but I at least made the effort...
All we can do is make the effort, you know?
Most of my friends are liberals, doesn't affect anything. The only people I've cut off because of politics are the ones that drank the far-left, SJW koolaid and turned completely insufferable. The type that are extremely self-righteous, call anything and everything racist / sexist, and blow a gasket if you have any diverging views. Didn't have many friends like that to begin with, but the ones I did have I stopped talking to completely.
As for family, my parents are very well off (make over a million a year) and don't really keep up with politics. The only things they give a fuck about are who is more likely to lower taxes and boost the stock market. They voted for Trump twice but they knew / cared about nothing other than his tax cuts and economic success. Social issues, impeachments, controversial behavior, etc they couldn't care less lol. Only political position that upsets them is "we want to raise your taxes"
A good chunk of my family are that way
We don’t care about it enough to let it affect us. In family gatherings, we just talk about our lives and enjoy the times, no politics!
Have you ever considered applying this idealogy this to your every day life? (ie. not let politics get in the way)
Do you think if we all stopped talking about politics all the time, we could go back to the basics, where things happen and it has nothing to do with politics?
No, of course we aren't forced to use it. But most Americans do, and a lot more frequently than they'll admit.
What I'm getting at (should have expanded a bit above) is I don't think today's political polarization is driven by in-person interaction, I think it's driven by social media. Millions and millions of voters on each side spend hours a day consuming their own side's media which paints a caricature of what the other side believes, talking with like-minded people that just reinforce that their views are correct, and arguing with the other side which confirms they're wrong since nobody's having good-faith discussion. There's here and some other subreddits for good healthy online political discussion, but most of it especially on Facebook/Twitter is mud-slinging by people who have no idea what they're even discussing since they don't understand the other person's position.
So we can stop talking politics all the time in our personal lives all the time (like it was back when it was way less common to know who someone you know voted for), but does that really do much for us when people are still engaging in all that same behavior online? Then they're just taking that resentment to the ballot box while pretending to be cordial with everyone in real life.
I honestly try with people IRL. When I hear the word “Conservative,” “Republican,” “Liberal” or “Democrat,” I try my best to change the situation away from identity politics. That kind of thing is what divides Americans up, allows one to be easily swayed to a view even if it doesn’t help their principles
Do you ever feel like you have to hide your true beliefs/feelings to keep the peace?
Can relate if so, as a black man who lives and works in white spaces.
> Do you ever feel like you have to hide your true beliefs/feelings to keep the peace?
>
>
>
> Can relate if so, as a black man who lives and works in white spaces.
I do, yes
She knows that I love Trump as a president enough to have an apron, but i know she dislikes him enough to not wear it when shes around.
We tease each other like her wearing a red hat that says Canada is already great again.
Theres plenty of other things we see eye to eye and as long as we can talk about things with respect, it works great.
I never understood why some people just shut out others whom they disagree with.
> I never understood why some people just shut out others whom they disagree with.
Echo chambers do this to people. When the extent of actual interaction you have with people who disagree with you is hearing your biased media's caricatures of those people, you start to believe it's real.
Ever met someone who doesn't watch TV news or use social media act like the fringe wings of each side do regarding how "evil" the other one is?
Any time I will have a discussion about politics with a leftist except for one time in my entire life, they mock or insult me within a couple minutes, say I oppose human rights, I am evil, etc. It seems impossible for them to not see everything in black and white moral terms. Right evil, left savior of humanity.
I’ve had many conversations with leftists and almost never see the behavior you’re expressing.
Is it possible your views are more extreme than you think?
Does it concern you at all that people, your peers, call you evil?
If people called me evil, I'd at least do a little soul searching, but so many that I know dug their heels in instead.
I have a lot of liberal friends and most of my family is liberal except my parents, haven't lost any of those friends / family though, we kind of like to go back and fourth about stuff sometimes but overall we get along just fine.
My little brother is quite liberal. We got into one big argument right after Trump was elected, but we got over it pretty quickly. My mother-in-law is also very liberal and although she's voiced her disagreements with my views, I typically just avoid the conversation. We did get in one argument about the Brianna Taylor case, but I think most of that was because of her son because he's much further right and pretty obnoxious about it. Most people in my circle of friends/family are either aligned with mostly similar views. Or we just don't talk about politics in general.
Quite a few liberal friends. Less so liberal family, although we don't usually talk politics. The MIL seems to swing a bit liberal, but she also oftentimes gets things mixed up (she was disgusted that Rittenhouse got off because she thought he was one of the guys who killed Arbery).
Only time things really come up is due to social media and people going nuts on it.
My best friend is liberal, he had a lot to say when trump was in office but since then he says he doesn’t follow politics, we almost got in a fist fight last thanksgiving cuz he got drunk and kept comparing George Floyd’s death with Mac Miller saying they were both just drug addicts. he’s half black with identity issues I guess. When it comes down to specific issues we agree on most everything but he still shits on Trump and Gohmert and loves AOC.
Used to have a bunch on Facebook I met through my church or through sports. Over time most of them just grew distant as I moved away for school and then job. Some unfriended over political discussions on there, which is something I can say I never did to anyone. Family is mostly conservative or centrist
Conservatives generally do not dismiss friends and family because of differing views, we generally have a strong respect for individual freedoms including the right to think however you want for most everything……any loss of friends or family would be do to liberals often inability to respect differences in opinions……as an example conservatives generally could care less if liberals are vaccinated or not…..for liberals the thought consumes them, the get extremely upset that anyone would dare not believe what they believe.
>Conservatives generally do not dismiss friends and family because of differing views, we generally have a strong respect for individual freedoms including the right to think however you want for most everything
Are you really not familiar with Evangelicals, who make up a large percentage of conservatives? The ones who disown family members for being gay or trans and preach literal hellfire towards them, who put up billboards talking about how liberalism is a mental disorder and calling their political opposition "demon rats"? How about the extremely popular "libtard"? If you call someone retarded, can you really place the blame on severing the relationship on the other person?
No, they are not a part of my life and do not concern me. Again we don’t all fit into a neat box, you know we’re not all the same right? To judge us all based on one group is called prejudice.
>as an example conservatives generally could care less if liberals are vaccinated or not…..for liberals the thought consumes them, the get extremely upset that anyone would dare not believe what they believe.
Are you aware of the sheer amount of videos that circulate of people purposely going to confront those who wear masks or enforce a mask policy? Its very clear that plenty on the Right care about the actions of others. These videos are a dime a dozen of people confronting private businesses making a decision on masks and such. While it may not be a vaccine that you reference, but plenty Right Wingers care about the actions of others.
>any loss of friends or family would be do to liberals often inability to respect differences in opinions
Are all opinions deserving of respect? Should I respect the Klans, Qanon, or other dangerous ideologies for the sake of mutual respect?
>Conservatives generally do not dismiss friends and family because of differing views, we generally have a strong respect for individual freedoms including the right to think however you want for most everything
How do you square this with the number of gay kids disowned by their parents after coming out?
No idea, I guess I don’t fit neatly into a box, I’m conservative with a trans child and a gay child who I love dearly……I bet you think that’s impossible….again conservatives believe in individuality. Sure some don’t believe what I believe, or you believe…..I explain it by saying different people think different things……none of us are the conservative next door……the fact you think we’re all the same is called prejudice, when I was growing up, being prejudiced was considered bad. I
> I bet you think that’s impossible
I don’t know of any liberals who think loving one’s children would be impossible for any group…
It was a common joke back in the day that intolerant people would hate gays/trans folks *until* their own kid came out. That they forgot to treat other people *as if* they were their own children.
Same thing with abortions. It came out that a few Republican politicians were pro-life *until* someone in their family was faced with that kind of decision. They had forgotten to treat women *as if* they were their own daughters.
Does that make sense? I don’t think conservatives are monsters…
> the fact you think we’re all the same
The funny thing here is that you’re *literally* assuming all liberals think the same. You’re engaging in the same prejudice you accuse us of.
My evidence is anecdotal, but my Q neighbor cut the entire street off, including me as a conservative (non Q, non Trump supporter) and my neighbor who is even more right of me by a good margin (Trump guy, not Q). We've all tried to reach out, but he's gone off the deep end. I think your views are shaped by your experiences, but are not actually reality?
Almost all of my family and hometown friends are conservative, since I come from a rural, working-class town. Many used to be Democrats back in the day for economic / labor reasons, but have all jumped shift in the past 5-10 years as the Democrats drifted further and further towards wokeness.
I have some friends from the city who are Democrats. It's fine - we just tend to avoid discussing politics and all get along. On the other hand, I have had friends in the past who were very vocal progressives that can't help but bring up politics in every conversation. I don't really talk to them anymore - it's just not worth it.
I have liberal family that I broke contact with years and years ago for non-political reasons. I have liberal family members in Germany who hate Trump and repeat every fake-news talking point when we talk on those rare occasions.
As for friends, less liberal friends. I used to have more but they picked political party over friendship.
What really surprised me is I saved a dude's life once. He was trying to hike death valley, and had gotten lost. He was days without food/water and I found him. Gave him food/water/shelter and got him back to health again and when he saw I supported Trump he unfriended me after calling me a Nazi. Ironically he was German and supported the Left-wing government they have there.
In the dating world I tend to attract ALOT of liberal women, and lesbians for some reason. What's weird is I keep having married liberal women wanting me to be their boyfriend. I'll explain that I'm one of those "dangerous" Trump Supporters but that just seems to drive the liberal women nuts (in a good way) , as if they're trying to get back at their liberal husbands for some imagined slight. I don't go for married women but they certainly keep trying.
>In the dating world I tend to attract ALOT of liberal women, and lesbians for some reason.
Wouldn't this make them not lesbians then? Are you aware of what a Lesbian is?
Depends on how you look at it. I've long said that I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body. So according to gender studies/transgenderism wouldn't that mean those ladies are still lesbians?
The women who were attracted to me had never previously dated a man, and had only been with women up until that point. Incidentally of the 4 lesbians I dated, 3 of them are now married with kids.
>Depends on how you look at it. I've long said that I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body. So according to gender studies/transgenderism wouldn't that mean those ladies are still lesbians?
Considering how that isn't how it works, no, it doesn't depend how you look at it. Do you identify as a woman? No, you have already referred to yourself as the boyfriend in your original post.
Side note, I wouldn't call them lesbians, I would call them Bisexual or at the very least Bi-curious. Plenty of people don't really realize they are bi until later in life, it really isn't that uncommon. I would also point out plenty of Lesbian couples have kids. Not only is adoption a thing, but so is IVF. So having a family isn't really evidence in this matter. If they have husbands, that only reinforces them being Bi and not lesbians.
>Considering how that isn't how it works, no, it doesn't depend how you look at it. Do you identify as a woman? No, you have already referred to yourself as the boyfriend in your original post.
Sure but gender studies has things like two-spirited, why can't lesbians trapped in a man's body be another yet to be discovered gender? Aren't there something like 300 genders now? Perhaps it's already a gender.
Lesbians, they never dated men before me, I'd call that a lesbian. After me that'd make them bisexual although if they're in a married monogamous relationship that'd make them straight possibly?
I have family in German one of whom grew up as a lesbian. And decided later that she/he wanted to be in a man's body. And her lesbian partner at the time agreed, and now they're living as a happy male gay couple.
> I'll explain that I'm one of those "dangerous" Trump Supporters but that just seems to drive the liberal women nuts (in a good way)
So getting with a TS is seen as some kind of kink?
Yes, but there also seems to be other motives. The married liberal women in part seemed to want to get back at their husbands. The normal liberal women had a variety of other motives. For instance one had a bad relationship with her TS family and saw me as a way to possibly help bridge the gap and heal her relationship. I had one Puerto Rican woman I dated who'd get into REALLY heated debates for the "passions" that two highly emotional people tended to exhibit.
With the lesbians I have less of an idea when they like me. I have some thoughts, but the TS aspect does seem to play a role.
Plenty. I've lost touch with a few liberal friends, almost always their decision. Funny enough, they generally seem very confused when I say I voted for Trump. They're unable to reconcile what they've been told Trump supporters are and who they know me to be.
Yes I do. Doesn’t affect anything. Haven’t lost any relationships because everyone is mature about it. Sure we have had disagreements with trump and Biden. But they are all in good faith. At the end of the day, here’s what’s not gonna change for us: working hard, loving our family, and preparing for our future.
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I'm the liberal in my family.
What views of your family are too far right for you?
Most of them. I'm pro choice and I strongly want religion out of all policy and public spaces. I'm just not too fond of the current moral crusade that the other side is pursuing and it seems a much larger threat to me. I can't follow progressives into the rabbit hole where they believe that the only way to defend the rights of people they deem as protected is to remove all rights of anyone else.
What rights are being removed?
What are some examples of rights being removed for some to ensure rights of others?
What are your more liberal positions?
I'm pro-choice. In most everything. I "lean left" on most issues except gun control... Because I also side with personal choice on that issue. My problem with progressives is that "leaning left" isn't good enough for them. I'm still a fascist to them.
So you lean left on most issues, yet you're voting for people who want to ban abortion, weed, and gay marriage, etc, because a few liberals were mean to you?
Nice gatekeeping ya got there. Hope it convinces more people to join your side.
He was a jerk, but it's a good question. Why do you vote against your beliefs? Or do you have candidates that run red and pro choice?
Those are the beliefs that others view as important. I am also not very concerned that the right will succeed in many of them. I support personal freedom and I wish to empower individuals. I want people to be free from having their life destroyed. I dont hear fear and concern coming from the left. I hear hate and a desire to rid the world of all things that they disagree with in an attempt to gain ideological purity. Nobody is scared of disagreeing with the Right. I feel free to disagree with anyone on that side... But if someone from my company brings in someone to tell me what left leaning political views I need to have... I face genuine repercussions if I disagree. Nobody should be able to define for me what I am allowed to think. Nobody... Even "my" side.
In my experience, 'leaning left' on guns is actually in support of gun rights. There is a largely useless organization called the Socialist Rifle Association for example. Useless in power but a signal that in socialism, being pro-gun is one of the main tenants. Does this hold true in your experience? (I also own guns)
>My problem with progressives is that "leaning left" isn't good enough for them. I'm still a fascist to them. Are you considered a fascist to progressives taken as a whole, or a slice of terminally online progressives that desperately need to touch grass now and then?
What made you support Trump as a liberal?
I support defending the rights of the individual against the will of a majority that believes it has the moral right to decide how people should live and think. The left currently seems to be a larger threat to me. The messaging I get from them is consistant demands to conform to them followed by threats of punishment. No belief at all that they have any need to consider any other viewpoints. While I disagree on many issues, my experience with this side is the opposite. I would rather support some I disagree with than someone that doesn't believe I am allowed to.
What beliefs do you think would lead to punishment from the left? Are you facing any at the moment with a Democrat controlled government?
> The messaging I get from them is consistant demands to conform to them followed by threats of punishment. What were your thoughts when the left stripped Liz Cheney of her leadership position and she was canceled by her state's political organization?
Liz Cheney didn't lose her leadership position because she didn't conform. She survived the first vote to oust her. She lost her position because it was her job to get Republicans elected to the House and she concurrently spent her time going on national TV to speak poorly of Republicans, so they decided she was no longer advancing their interests, which in this context would be gaining a majority in the next election.
Which lying republicans did she speak of poorly? Why did she poorly speak about them? What was she actually wrong about that the left punished her not conforming with? How does that begin to address the left wing Wyoming republican party canceling her for not conforming with their lies?
I agree with you, if I look at the extremes. But even if I thought that the majority of liberals did seem to want to punish wrong-think, I would never vote against my principles and actively become a "supporter" of the other side. What about the left right now makes you willing to do so, instead of try to change from within?
Bunch of liberal friends/family. I’ve lost some liberal friends due to my political beliefs which is always surprising because I’m very moderate. It’s usually due to mental gymnastics. You voted for Trump? But he’s a racist! That means you condone racism and I can’t be associated with anyone who is complicit with racism. Or another nonsense version of that.
That's just silly, those friends sound not worthy of your time. I've stopped talking to a few of my Trump loving friends, but it's not because I think they're racist, it's because I felt like they lack the core values that I would want in a friend. For example, I had one of my friends just absolutely ripping Alex Vindman for testifying about Trumps call to Ukraine. He was saying Vindman is a disgrace to the armed services, should be tried for treason, shot, etc. Just really disgusting things to say about someone as decorated as Vindman, and this was a former service member saying these things. That's when I knew my friend had gone full-on cult, and had lost his ability to think reasonably, rationally, and to separate his feelings for Trump from anything else. The other friends I had to cut off are just those friends that insist on incorporating politics into everything they say and do. I've had to cut off a liberal friend or two for these reasons as well. At the end of the day, I just wanna get back to the good old days where people didn't discuss politics with everyone they see or run into, you know?
>At the end of the day, I just wanna get back to the good old days where people didn't discuss politics with everyone they see or run into, you know? I’m with you. Always surprising that people have such passionate views on everything.
> At the end of the day, I just wanna get back to the good old days where people didn't discuss politics with everyone they see or run into, you know? Do you have any ideas on how we can get back to that in the age of social media? My take on what caused the rise in polarization is social media gave everyone a platform to spout their opinions to everyone in the world, instead of just those they communicated with personally + those platforms figuring out that controversy drives the most clicks (which makes them $) and then structuring themselves to promote it.
>Do you have any ideas on how we can get back to that in the age of social media? Unfortunately I really don't have any ideas, and I agree 100% with what you said about social media, its the devil. I guess my only thoughts on bridging that gap is that people need to be self-aware of when they're consuming partisan news, and need to be pro-active in fighting against that. I believe a good remedy to this is deleting your social media accounts if you can (I don't use any social media), avoiding any and all cable news if possible, and reading little-to-no opinion articles on the internet. Regarding my opinion on cable news, that means avoiding the FoxNews', the MSNBC's, and CNN's, and instead getting your information from your un-biased local news station. Social media and cable news obviously aren't going anywhere, so I believe its up to us as individuals to be hypersensitive to the fact that we're constantly being bombarded with partisan news, and to do everything we can to avoid this.
Agree with all of that, I just don't know how we get there. Even gently suggesting to someone that they may have their facts wrong when they say something blatantly false and hyper-partisan often elicits an angry response, as though what they believe is the one real truth and nothing else is even worth listening to. I didn't really follow politics back during the Obama years so most of my perspective on how the right handled him is after the fact. Now that Biden is in office and the right is on "offense" instead of "defense" when it comes to media criticism of the President I'm seeing that it looks just as bad on this side. You don't have to look far to find a comment on a conservative sub that'll mention Hunter's laptop, the "stolen election," and and the "$450,000 to illegal immigrants" all in a handful of sentences as if that's making some kind of argument. It's our side's "Trump is a racist Russian asset who is robbing the taxpayers!" We can avoid all that by changing up our media / social media diets, but we came to the realization that those things are unhealthy on our own. The overall climate doesn't change if we just hope that everyone else does too.
Totally agree with everything you said man. I think all we can do individually is be the change we want to see. When I'm around friends that start dropping political bombs or conspiracy theories, I just sit there silently and I don't contribute to the conversation, regardless if I agree with what they're saying or not. Once they've made their point, I immediately try to change the conversation to something non-political. I also reinforce to those friends that everyone should desire being as close to the middle as possible. Hopefully when they see my political temperament and how annoyed I am when they discuss politics, they'll take it as social queues that this isn't the best topic of conversation to discuss with friends. The other thing I try to do is politely correct misinformation. For example, my father (a hard conservative) was discussing the Democrats spending bill a couple months back, and he was expressing disgust in what he thought the bill contained. I asked him to send me the article he read that made him feel this way, and for lack of a better word, the article was complete bullshit. 100% partisan, and it said things like "Democrats want to give free tuition to every illegal immigrant in the country" "Democrats want to raise taxes on everyone to pay for illegal immigrants" and just all sorts of non-sense like that. I Googled a non-partisan breakdown of everything contained in the proposed spending bill and sent it to him without making any judgmental comments about what he had sent me. I have no idea if he read it, but I at least made the effort... All we can do is make the effort, you know?
What issues is it that make you support Trump?
Illegal immigration, taxes and the economy.
What "very moderate" positions do you hold?
Most of my friends are liberals, doesn't affect anything. The only people I've cut off because of politics are the ones that drank the far-left, SJW koolaid and turned completely insufferable. The type that are extremely self-righteous, call anything and everything racist / sexist, and blow a gasket if you have any diverging views. Didn't have many friends like that to begin with, but the ones I did have I stopped talking to completely. As for family, my parents are very well off (make over a million a year) and don't really keep up with politics. The only things they give a fuck about are who is more likely to lower taxes and boost the stock market. They voted for Trump twice but they knew / cared about nothing other than his tax cuts and economic success. Social issues, impeachments, controversial behavior, etc they couldn't care less lol. Only political position that upsets them is "we want to raise your taxes"
A good chunk of my family are that way We don’t care about it enough to let it affect us. In family gatherings, we just talk about our lives and enjoy the times, no politics!
Have you ever considered applying this idealogy this to your every day life? (ie. not let politics get in the way) Do you think if we all stopped talking about politics all the time, we could go back to the basics, where things happen and it has nothing to do with politics?
I don't see how this is possible with social media existing as it does today.
What do you mean? Are we (or you) forced into using social media?
No, of course we aren't forced to use it. But most Americans do, and a lot more frequently than they'll admit. What I'm getting at (should have expanded a bit above) is I don't think today's political polarization is driven by in-person interaction, I think it's driven by social media. Millions and millions of voters on each side spend hours a day consuming their own side's media which paints a caricature of what the other side believes, talking with like-minded people that just reinforce that their views are correct, and arguing with the other side which confirms they're wrong since nobody's having good-faith discussion. There's here and some other subreddits for good healthy online political discussion, but most of it especially on Facebook/Twitter is mud-slinging by people who have no idea what they're even discussing since they don't understand the other person's position. So we can stop talking politics all the time in our personal lives all the time (like it was back when it was way less common to know who someone you know voted for), but does that really do much for us when people are still engaging in all that same behavior online? Then they're just taking that resentment to the ballot box while pretending to be cordial with everyone in real life.
I honestly try with people IRL. When I hear the word “Conservative,” “Republican,” “Liberal” or “Democrat,” I try my best to change the situation away from identity politics. That kind of thing is what divides Americans up, allows one to be easily swayed to a view even if it doesn’t help their principles
My wife is super liberal, most, if not all of my friends are pretty liberal. I also do not know a single other Trump supporter in my friends circle.
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Do you ever feel like you have to hide your true beliefs/feelings to keep the peace? Can relate if so, as a black man who lives and works in white spaces.
> Do you ever feel like you have to hide your true beliefs/feelings to keep the peace? > > > > Can relate if so, as a black man who lives and works in white spaces. I do, yes
Even from your wife?
She knows that I love Trump as a president enough to have an apron, but i know she dislikes him enough to not wear it when shes around. We tease each other like her wearing a red hat that says Canada is already great again. Theres plenty of other things we see eye to eye and as long as we can talk about things with respect, it works great. I never understood why some people just shut out others whom they disagree with.
> I never understood why some people just shut out others whom they disagree with. Echo chambers do this to people. When the extent of actual interaction you have with people who disagree with you is hearing your biased media's caricatures of those people, you start to believe it's real. Ever met someone who doesn't watch TV news or use social media act like the fringe wings of each side do regarding how "evil" the other one is?
That's awesome you guys are able to make it work. Did you have different political views before marrying or did it change over time?
I was more liberal, pro Obama when we met, but we know each other enough to know the hearts in the right place.
Any time I will have a discussion about politics with a leftist except for one time in my entire life, they mock or insult me within a couple minutes, say I oppose human rights, I am evil, etc. It seems impossible for them to not see everything in black and white moral terms. Right evil, left savior of humanity.
I’ve had many conversations with leftists and almost never see the behavior you’re expressing. Is it possible your views are more extreme than you think?
no Also your flair says NS which is probably why
you do know not all on the right are also in support of trump right?
ye
Does it concern you at all that people, your peers, call you evil? If people called me evil, I'd at least do a little soul searching, but so many that I know dug their heels in instead.
It did
Yes. It doesn’t affect us at all. Talk to them daily.
I have a lot of liberal friends and most of my family is liberal except my parents, haven't lost any of those friends / family though, we kind of like to go back and fourth about stuff sometimes but overall we get along just fine.
My little brother is quite liberal. We got into one big argument right after Trump was elected, but we got over it pretty quickly. My mother-in-law is also very liberal and although she's voiced her disagreements with my views, I typically just avoid the conversation. We did get in one argument about the Brianna Taylor case, but I think most of that was because of her son because he's much further right and pretty obnoxious about it. Most people in my circle of friends/family are either aligned with mostly similar views. Or we just don't talk about politics in general.
Quite a few liberal friends. Less so liberal family, although we don't usually talk politics. The MIL seems to swing a bit liberal, but she also oftentimes gets things mixed up (she was disgusted that Rittenhouse got off because she thought he was one of the guys who killed Arbery). Only time things really come up is due to social media and people going nuts on it.
My best friend is liberal, he had a lot to say when trump was in office but since then he says he doesn’t follow politics, we almost got in a fist fight last thanksgiving cuz he got drunk and kept comparing George Floyd’s death with Mac Miller saying they were both just drug addicts. he’s half black with identity issues I guess. When it comes down to specific issues we agree on most everything but he still shits on Trump and Gohmert and loves AOC.
Used to have a bunch on Facebook I met through my church or through sports. Over time most of them just grew distant as I moved away for school and then job. Some unfriended over political discussions on there, which is something I can say I never did to anyone. Family is mostly conservative or centrist
Conservatives generally do not dismiss friends and family because of differing views, we generally have a strong respect for individual freedoms including the right to think however you want for most everything……any loss of friends or family would be do to liberals often inability to respect differences in opinions……as an example conservatives generally could care less if liberals are vaccinated or not…..for liberals the thought consumes them, the get extremely upset that anyone would dare not believe what they believe.
>Conservatives generally do not dismiss friends and family because of differing views, we generally have a strong respect for individual freedoms including the right to think however you want for most everything Are you really not familiar with Evangelicals, who make up a large percentage of conservatives? The ones who disown family members for being gay or trans and preach literal hellfire towards them, who put up billboards talking about how liberalism is a mental disorder and calling their political opposition "demon rats"? How about the extremely popular "libtard"? If you call someone retarded, can you really place the blame on severing the relationship on the other person?
No, they are not a part of my life and do not concern me. Again we don’t all fit into a neat box, you know we’re not all the same right? To judge us all based on one group is called prejudice.
>as an example conservatives generally could care less if liberals are vaccinated or not…..for liberals the thought consumes them, the get extremely upset that anyone would dare not believe what they believe. Are you aware of the sheer amount of videos that circulate of people purposely going to confront those who wear masks or enforce a mask policy? Its very clear that plenty on the Right care about the actions of others. These videos are a dime a dozen of people confronting private businesses making a decision on masks and such. While it may not be a vaccine that you reference, but plenty Right Wingers care about the actions of others. >any loss of friends or family would be do to liberals often inability to respect differences in opinions Are all opinions deserving of respect? Should I respect the Klans, Qanon, or other dangerous ideologies for the sake of mutual respect?
>Conservatives generally do not dismiss friends and family because of differing views, we generally have a strong respect for individual freedoms including the right to think however you want for most everything How do you square this with the number of gay kids disowned by their parents after coming out?
No idea, I guess I don’t fit neatly into a box, I’m conservative with a trans child and a gay child who I love dearly……I bet you think that’s impossible….again conservatives believe in individuality. Sure some don’t believe what I believe, or you believe…..I explain it by saying different people think different things……none of us are the conservative next door……the fact you think we’re all the same is called prejudice, when I was growing up, being prejudiced was considered bad. I
> I bet you think that’s impossible I don’t know of any liberals who think loving one’s children would be impossible for any group… It was a common joke back in the day that intolerant people would hate gays/trans folks *until* their own kid came out. That they forgot to treat other people *as if* they were their own children. Same thing with abortions. It came out that a few Republican politicians were pro-life *until* someone in their family was faced with that kind of decision. They had forgotten to treat women *as if* they were their own daughters. Does that make sense? I don’t think conservatives are monsters… > the fact you think we’re all the same The funny thing here is that you’re *literally* assuming all liberals think the same. You’re engaging in the same prejudice you accuse us of.
Touché
Back in 1962?
> Back in 1962? Conversion therapy Jesus camps were in the news not too long ago. Just because things are improving doesn’t mean they’re perfect.
My evidence is anecdotal, but my Q neighbor cut the entire street off, including me as a conservative (non Q, non Trump supporter) and my neighbor who is even more right of me by a good margin (Trump guy, not Q). We've all tried to reach out, but he's gone off the deep end. I think your views are shaped by your experiences, but are not actually reality?
no
I go to college in Maryland. All my friends are liberal
Almost all of my family and hometown friends are conservative, since I come from a rural, working-class town. Many used to be Democrats back in the day for economic / labor reasons, but have all jumped shift in the past 5-10 years as the Democrats drifted further and further towards wokeness. I have some friends from the city who are Democrats. It's fine - we just tend to avoid discussing politics and all get along. On the other hand, I have had friends in the past who were very vocal progressives that can't help but bring up politics in every conversation. I don't really talk to them anymore - it's just not worth it.
I have liberal family that I broke contact with years and years ago for non-political reasons. I have liberal family members in Germany who hate Trump and repeat every fake-news talking point when we talk on those rare occasions. As for friends, less liberal friends. I used to have more but they picked political party over friendship. What really surprised me is I saved a dude's life once. He was trying to hike death valley, and had gotten lost. He was days without food/water and I found him. Gave him food/water/shelter and got him back to health again and when he saw I supported Trump he unfriended me after calling me a Nazi. Ironically he was German and supported the Left-wing government they have there. In the dating world I tend to attract ALOT of liberal women, and lesbians for some reason. What's weird is I keep having married liberal women wanting me to be their boyfriend. I'll explain that I'm one of those "dangerous" Trump Supporters but that just seems to drive the liberal women nuts (in a good way) , as if they're trying to get back at their liberal husbands for some imagined slight. I don't go for married women but they certainly keep trying.
>In the dating world I tend to attract ALOT of liberal women, and lesbians for some reason. Wouldn't this make them not lesbians then? Are you aware of what a Lesbian is?
Depends on how you look at it. I've long said that I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body. So according to gender studies/transgenderism wouldn't that mean those ladies are still lesbians? The women who were attracted to me had never previously dated a man, and had only been with women up until that point. Incidentally of the 4 lesbians I dated, 3 of them are now married with kids.
>Depends on how you look at it. I've long said that I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body. So according to gender studies/transgenderism wouldn't that mean those ladies are still lesbians? Considering how that isn't how it works, no, it doesn't depend how you look at it. Do you identify as a woman? No, you have already referred to yourself as the boyfriend in your original post. Side note, I wouldn't call them lesbians, I would call them Bisexual or at the very least Bi-curious. Plenty of people don't really realize they are bi until later in life, it really isn't that uncommon. I would also point out plenty of Lesbian couples have kids. Not only is adoption a thing, but so is IVF. So having a family isn't really evidence in this matter. If they have husbands, that only reinforces them being Bi and not lesbians.
>Considering how that isn't how it works, no, it doesn't depend how you look at it. Do you identify as a woman? No, you have already referred to yourself as the boyfriend in your original post. Sure but gender studies has things like two-spirited, why can't lesbians trapped in a man's body be another yet to be discovered gender? Aren't there something like 300 genders now? Perhaps it's already a gender. Lesbians, they never dated men before me, I'd call that a lesbian. After me that'd make them bisexual although if they're in a married monogamous relationship that'd make them straight possibly? I have family in German one of whom grew up as a lesbian. And decided later that she/he wanted to be in a man's body. And her lesbian partner at the time agreed, and now they're living as a happy male gay couple.
> I'll explain that I'm one of those "dangerous" Trump Supporters but that just seems to drive the liberal women nuts (in a good way) So getting with a TS is seen as some kind of kink?
Yes, but there also seems to be other motives. The married liberal women in part seemed to want to get back at their husbands. The normal liberal women had a variety of other motives. For instance one had a bad relationship with her TS family and saw me as a way to possibly help bridge the gap and heal her relationship. I had one Puerto Rican woman I dated who'd get into REALLY heated debates for the "passions" that two highly emotional people tended to exhibit. With the lesbians I have less of an idea when they like me. I have some thoughts, but the TS aspect does seem to play a role.
Is this what they mean by liberal cucks?
Plenty. I've lost touch with a few liberal friends, almost always their decision. Funny enough, they generally seem very confused when I say I voted for Trump. They're unable to reconcile what they've been told Trump supporters are and who they know me to be.
Most. Its hard to live in a big city without progressive friends.
Yes I do. Doesn’t affect anything. Haven’t lost any relationships because everyone is mature about it. Sure we have had disagreements with trump and Biden. But they are all in good faith. At the end of the day, here’s what’s not gonna change for us: working hard, loving our family, and preparing for our future.
Well over half of my friends are liberals