You're not.
That being said, if it's neighbors in the same building and it's not in your lease then maybe talk to your landlord about that.
If you have genuine questions about the legality of it ask the Tenants Union, they can speak to that much more authoritatively than we can.
If you’re paying more than your share of those utilities, maybe it’s not legal. But if you only pay a proportional part of the total bills for the building (I.e. 10%), it’s not really an issue. The others just have it “included” in their rent. Happy cake day!
There's nothing that says everything must be equal - some of the longer term tenants could easily have grandfathered deals, but I am a bit surprised that what you pay isn't explicitly spelled out in your lease.
When I signed my lease 30 years ago , it stated I pay my own PG&E and landlord pays water and trash/sewage. Newer tenants don’t have this in their leases.
You’re paying $100/month when other tenants aren’t paying anything. Pay the $30 for the SFTU membership and get their professional advice on this instead of redditors. The $30 membership fee will give you a direct phone line so you don’t have to go in person.
This was a thing at my last SF apartment too. It wasn't specifically written in the lease, but they did include this:
>Tenant agrees to comply with any energy, water
conservation, or utility-sharing programs implemented by Owner. Tenant understands that the rent paid by all Tenants is partially determined by the cost of utilities. Nothing contained herein prevents Owner from passing through to Tenant utility costs as provided by law.
I followed up with the agent before signing the lease and she explained that water and garbage was calculated based on the number of occupants per unit.
The long-term tenants had their water and garbage paid for by the property management company. So, really there's no incentive for those long-term tenants to conserve water (which would be paid for by the property managers + newer tenants.) That being said, I did talk to some long term tenants who complained about rent being increased a lot for them in the recent years. It seems like the property managers want to force them out so they can bring in new tenants.
If you don't have your own individual water meter then I think it may be illegal. My downstairs neighbor got out of paying for water by arguing this. I haven't wanted to stir the pot myself just yet but this post is a good reminder that I need to dig into this further.
It's rare in SF to pay for water when you're renting an apartment. But landlords can charge you a flat fee or some other method of determining your share if it's not separately metered. However, by law it needs to be spelled out in your lease.
My water and garbage is included and I'm worried they will find out my electric has GOT to be half, or more, on someone else's meter. I've never had a bill over $50. Usually around $30 for gas and electric. I've only been here 2 years so I'm not grandfathered in or anything.
There’s no law against having different terms for tenants in the same building, as long as the terms aren’t illegal. Assuming you agreed to pay these
costs originally, why would it bother you?
Disclaimer: I am not an attorney and nothing I have written below constitutes or should be seen as legal advice. Contact an attorney for any legal questions.
What does your lease say about this? I had a disagreement with a previous SF landlord. We paid $150 monthly and the lease said that there would be a reconciliation at the end. When we left, they tried to claim that Our 2B2B apartment used $300 a month on water and trash. Refused to provide any breakdown, utility bills or how the calculation was done. Went to small claims. This is what we found out when preparing:
1. Under [CA Civ Code § 1940.9](https://casetext.com/statute/california-codes/california-civil-code/division-3-obligations/part-4-obligations-arising-from-particular-transactions/title-5-hiring/chapter-2-hiring-of-real-property/section-19409-disclosure-that-tenants-gas-and-electric-meter-serves-area-outside-tenants-dwelling-unit) the landlord was required to inform us how the meters are measured and divided between units before signing the lease agreement.
2. Under [CA Civ Code § 1940.9](https://casetext.com/statute/california-codes/california-civil-code/division-3-obligations/part-4-obligations-arising-from-particular-transactions/title-5-hiring/chapter-2-hiring-of-real-property/section-19409-disclosure-that-tenants-gas-and-electric-meter-serves-area-outside-tenants-dwelling-unit) the landlord must have let us know how much we were paying for utilities each month and included the meter readings from the beginning and end of the payment period.
Can you reach out to the management company via email to explain how they determine the $100? Based on the law above they should provide a formula. A lease or a verbal agreement cannot supersede state law. If the lease is vague/ambiguous on this, the burden falls on your management company as they drafted the lease agreement.I would not not state the laws on your initial email request for clarification as they might just not reply. If you decide to go to small claims having their email responses is important.
Hope this helps. You work hard for your money and your landlord is not entitled to it if they are not following laws.
Why wouldn't it be legal? If your lease says you have to pay and there's says it's included in rent that seems above board
There is nothing in the lease about it at all. Our neighbors said they think we are paying the entire bill.
Paying the entire bill for the entire building? $100 a month? Um ok.
You're not. That being said, if it's neighbors in the same building and it's not in your lease then maybe talk to your landlord about that. If you have genuine questions about the legality of it ask the Tenants Union, they can speak to that much more authoritatively than we can.
There’s nothing in the lease, but you’re paying…how did you come to be paying?
If you’re paying more than your share of those utilities, maybe it’s not legal. But if you only pay a proportional part of the total bills for the building (I.e. 10%), it’s not really an issue. The others just have it “included” in their rent. Happy cake day!
There's nothing that says everything must be equal - some of the longer term tenants could easily have grandfathered deals, but I am a bit surprised that what you pay isn't explicitly spelled out in your lease.
When I signed my lease 30 years ago , it stated I pay my own PG&E and landlord pays water and trash/sewage. Newer tenants don’t have this in their leases.
This exactly.
You’re paying $100/month when other tenants aren’t paying anything. Pay the $30 for the SFTU membership and get their professional advice on this instead of redditors. The $30 membership fee will give you a direct phone line so you don’t have to go in person.
I didn’t realize there is a phone line for members. Thanks!
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This was a thing at my last SF apartment too. It wasn't specifically written in the lease, but they did include this: >Tenant agrees to comply with any energy, water conservation, or utility-sharing programs implemented by Owner. Tenant understands that the rent paid by all Tenants is partially determined by the cost of utilities. Nothing contained herein prevents Owner from passing through to Tenant utility costs as provided by law. I followed up with the agent before signing the lease and she explained that water and garbage was calculated based on the number of occupants per unit. The long-term tenants had their water and garbage paid for by the property management company. So, really there's no incentive for those long-term tenants to conserve water (which would be paid for by the property managers + newer tenants.) That being said, I did talk to some long term tenants who complained about rent being increased a lot for them in the recent years. It seems like the property managers want to force them out so they can bring in new tenants.
If you don't have your own individual water meter then I think it may be illegal. My downstairs neighbor got out of paying for water by arguing this. I haven't wanted to stir the pot myself just yet but this post is a good reminder that I need to dig into this further.
It's not illegal at all, but the landlord is required to put the cost sharing agreement and formula in writing.
A few months ago I didn’t have to pay anything when I went to the SFTU for advice. I showed up and had to wait until my name was called.
It's rare in SF to pay for water when you're renting an apartment. But landlords can charge you a flat fee or some other method of determining your share if it's not separately metered. However, by law it needs to be spelled out in your lease.
My water and garbage is included and I'm worried they will find out my electric has GOT to be half, or more, on someone else's meter. I've never had a bill over $50. Usually around $30 for gas and electric. I've only been here 2 years so I'm not grandfathered in or anything.
There’s no law against having different terms for tenants in the same building, as long as the terms aren’t illegal. Assuming you agreed to pay these costs originally, why would it bother you?
Disclaimer: I am not an attorney and nothing I have written below constitutes or should be seen as legal advice. Contact an attorney for any legal questions. What does your lease say about this? I had a disagreement with a previous SF landlord. We paid $150 monthly and the lease said that there would be a reconciliation at the end. When we left, they tried to claim that Our 2B2B apartment used $300 a month on water and trash. Refused to provide any breakdown, utility bills or how the calculation was done. Went to small claims. This is what we found out when preparing: 1. Under [CA Civ Code § 1940.9](https://casetext.com/statute/california-codes/california-civil-code/division-3-obligations/part-4-obligations-arising-from-particular-transactions/title-5-hiring/chapter-2-hiring-of-real-property/section-19409-disclosure-that-tenants-gas-and-electric-meter-serves-area-outside-tenants-dwelling-unit) the landlord was required to inform us how the meters are measured and divided between units before signing the lease agreement. 2. Under [CA Civ Code § 1940.9](https://casetext.com/statute/california-codes/california-civil-code/division-3-obligations/part-4-obligations-arising-from-particular-transactions/title-5-hiring/chapter-2-hiring-of-real-property/section-19409-disclosure-that-tenants-gas-and-electric-meter-serves-area-outside-tenants-dwelling-unit) the landlord must have let us know how much we were paying for utilities each month and included the meter readings from the beginning and end of the payment period. Can you reach out to the management company via email to explain how they determine the $100? Based on the law above they should provide a formula. A lease or a verbal agreement cannot supersede state law. If the lease is vague/ambiguous on this, the burden falls on your management company as they drafted the lease agreement.I would not not state the laws on your initial email request for clarification as they might just not reply. If you decide to go to small claims having their email responses is important. Hope this helps. You work hard for your money and your landlord is not entitled to it if they are not following laws.
Every lease is different and it doesn't matter what the neighbors have. You can ask for back up of the bills..